Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: annew on June 24, 2016, 08:28:29 AM
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Who knows whether we will be exporting to Europe so easily in future? I hope Ireland is preparing to move out of the way while we withdraw 500 miles back into the Atlantic!
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Maybe you will have the same difficulties that we have here in Norway. I can send bulbs etc to Europe but I can't import without a lot of paperwork. They say it is to protect against diseases but I think it is to protect the monopoly of the big companies. I am certain that bulbs etc from Anne are at least as healthy as any I can get from a store.
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Back to feet & inches, ounces & pounds?
???
cheers
fermi
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Don't forget acres, fermi. It is important in the garden business ;)
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While it is true the recent EU referendum result will certainly have many negative impacts on the availability and ease of plant movements to and from the UK, it would be appreciated if "overtly political" comments could be avoided. Thank you!
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On the other hand for those holding other currencies it's a perfect time to renew your subscriptions and DONATE TO THIS EXCELLENT FORUM.
john
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On the other hand for those holding other currencies it's a perfect time to renew your subscriptions and DONATE TO THIS EXCELLENT FORUM.
john
What a spiffing idea- I couldn't agree more! So many readers of forum and SRGC offerings, IRG and Bulb Log etc are not members and it would be wonderful to have donations as tangible expression of appreciation of the efforts made to share with all!
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Just out of interest Maggi is it against forum rules to make any political comments at all?
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John, overtly political comments, that unfortunately can rapidly turn to overtly religious or racial comments, can not only cause Maggi a great deal of additional work in attempting to keep a reasonable peace but stops us from what our forum is all about, plants and how to grow them. I'm very much a 'political animal' myself but there are places to do it and also places not to do it.
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Thanks David, for your explanation.
John, it is a sad fact that comments on some subjects can lead too often to unpleasantness and acrimony which have no place here- but of course we can hardly,in all conscience, close our eyes and minds to events that will likely have major consequences on our interest in plants and ability to share and trade them with each other in future.
P.S Football causes a lot of aggro too! ::) :-X
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does this mean we don't have to follow the EU directive over peat use due in 2020?
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Hi David, like you said this is a gardening site and is not the place for politics, that's why I asked my question, but like Maggi says this result will probably affect us as gardeners, speaking personally I have ordered plants from several people on here who live in continental Europe and would be disappointed if I can't continue with that, especially as I have made some good friends with some of them through our shared interest in plants. I guess we will just have to be patient and see what happens. Graeme why would you want to use peat?, speaking again for myself it should be left where it is in the ground. I'll get off my soapbox now.
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P.S Football causes a lot of aggro too! ::) :-X
In fairness Maggi the Scotland fans have been exemplary at Euro 2016 ;)
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Graeme why would you want to use peat?, speaking again for myself it should be left where it is in the ground. I'll get off my soapbox now.
not that bothered for me but for comercial food producers in this country actually need to use it to get decent germination
In fairness Maggi the Scotland fans have been exemplary at Euro 2016 ;)
;D
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does this mean we don't have to follow the EU directive over peat use due in 2020?
You will probably be able to use all those banned pesticides too. Who cares about the environment!
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While it is true the recent EU referendum result will certainly have many negative impacts on the availability and ease of plant movements to and from the UK, it would be appreciated if "overtly political" comments could be avoided. Thank you!
Sorry, Maggi. :-[
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Perhaps Maggi could remove these comments to a separate discussion under a new thread "Effects on Gardeners by Brexit"?
Then we won't be hi-jacking Anne's topic ;D
cheers
fermi
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While it is true the recent EU referendum result will certainly have many negative impacts on the availability and ease of plant movements to and from the UK, it would be appreciated if "overtly political" comments could be avoided. Thank you!
I apologise if I said anything inappropriate. I didn't mean to start any political discussions for certain!
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I was just browsing the website of Jaques Amand and noticed that it mentions that Galanthus sent to Norway and Switzerland had to be sent with a CITES certificate at the additional cost of £75. I presume that's because of not being in the EU, or am I mistaken?
cheers
fermi
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The Norwegian/Swiss relationships with the EU have been suggested as the models we should follow by those politicians who promoted "Brexit". But if these relationships are examined in detail it is clear that they come at a high price. Both countries have negotiated access to the European Economic Area (Norway is a member of the EEA) but have to make very significant financial contributions to the EU. Norway is obliged to follow essentially the same EU rules regarding free movement as the EU states and in fact has also had to adopt a considerable number of EU rules to maintain its relationship with the EU. In effect they pay in, accept the EU rules but have no seat at the table when it comes to directing EU policy or making the rules.
Assuming we (speaking as a Brit) follow the Norwegian or Swiss models (which is very likely) then CITES will apply between ourselves and any/all of the EU nations. This will have the greatest impact when buying orchids, cyclamen and galanthus. Our hobby/passion is about to get much more expensive, with much more "red tape" when importing ........and all for what exactly?
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It is true what Steve says. Some say we have implemented more EU rules than any member! We also do it before any other ??? And we have to pay doing it :-X
I need and have to pay for plant health certificates always when buying plants abroad and CITES certificates when necessary but many sellers can't or won't provide any of these do to the costs and time.
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This is what we've got to look forward to Steve, NOT
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Ha! We Yankees on the other side of the Atlantic have to deal with red tape importing anything! :D ;) :P Besides, if Scotland leaves to join the EU, you could "smuggle" them in!
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I have probably to stop going to Stone Green Nursery begin September in a few years
I don't want all the trouble and paperwork for importing and later exporting the leftover bulbs again
Pity because we have a lot regular customers coming for us and our specialities
Roland
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Besides, if Scotland leaves to join the EU, you could "smuggle" them in!
Do you have any idea how difficult that would be in a kilt?
john
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Do you have any idea how difficult that would be in a kilt?
john
;D ;D ;D
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I'd been looking at Jan Bravenboer's site thinking about getting some seed and noticed he mentioned that for countries outside of the EU you need a phytosanitary certificate. I guess that means when we exit it won't really be feasible to buy from him which is a shame.
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You have three years probably Mark to buy all you want ;D
Roland
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I'd been looking at Jan Bravenboer's site thinking about getting some seed and noticed he mentioned that for countries outside of the EU you need a phytosanitary certificate. I guess that means when we exit it won't really be feasible to buy from him which is a shame.
dutch are looking to leave as well so it won't be an issue
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Read this: https://www.opencanada.org/features/brexit-post-mortem-17-takeaways-fallen-david-cameron/ (https://www.opencanada.org/features/brexit-post-mortem-17-takeaways-fallen-david-cameron/)
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Dutch will not go out of Europe Graeme
They are to intelligent for that
Roland
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How does Bulborum's comment not constitute a political comment? The insinuation is that we British are stupid in voting for Brexit which I find offensive.
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Hi Ralph that Jeremy kinsman has his head skewed on right, every word is true. Hi Paul I dont think roland ment to be offensive, I think basically he ment the Dutch know which side there bread is butted on, if you know what I mean.
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I wish I hadn't started all this now. ::)
I think we'll just have to wait and see what kind of new trade agreements can be arranged. Not a lot of point in speculation.
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Hi Paul I dont think roland ment to be offensive, I think basically he ment the Dutch know which side there bread is butted on, if you know what I mean.
John is right
If I find something stupid then it is the young ones who didn't vote
It's their future
My company was trading in 8 countries in Europe
You will not know how much paperwork it saved getting into Europa and the Euro
Not to mention all the different valuta we had to deal with (almost 4% lost by exchange rates )
One simple example why we didn't trade with Swiss
You have to count and weight all bulbs bringing to Swiss
Giving an indication how much we would sell
After the selling weekend the same for importing the bulbs back to the EEG
Can you image counting a few hundred thousand bulbs by hand twice
That will take weeks
Dutch live from exporting so why would they destroy that
Just fools would do that
I wish I hadn't started all this now. ::)
I think you are right Anne
Better to talk plants (more fun and we can't change the Brexit any more)
Here it seems finally summer :)
Roland
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I wish I hadn't started all this now. ::)
I think we'll just have to wait and see what kind of new trade agreements can be arranged. Not a lot of point in speculation.
Anne, you were right to start this. Brexit has profound implications for us as gardeners, traders and indeed through all aspects of our life. The economic and social issues surrounding BREXIT and REMAIN were not in my opinion adequately presented to the British people. Few who frequent these pages would disagree that the EU is in need of realignment such that it reflects popular European opinion. However, living in a Britain destined to leave the EU I fear we will face austere times with increased barriers to free trade -including of plant material. I desperately hope that I am wrong!
In other EU nations with significant eurosceptism the push for their own referenda is on hold -the view is wait and see what happens to the UK. As a result the EU establishment cannot afford for the UK to be seen to thrive outwith Europe as this will fuel further dissent in the ranks. So the UK will be fortunate to cut itself a Norwegian-style deal which will cost us financially, will involve accepting free people movement but will deny us any say in policy making. In my opinion those in the UK who voted for Brexit will be very disappointed in what they will get. Those who voted to stay are already very disappointed. A self-induced lose lose scenario, it's very difficult not to see this as needless folly. But as I said I really hope that I am very wrong.
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Here it seems finally summer :)
It seems like its a British 'summer' here this morning - lashing it down with rain again :(
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Friends - the idea of this thread was to cast some light on what the effects of "Brexit" might be to the horticultural sector - I would hope that you could discuss this politely - or I will remove the thread, which would be a shame, since there are surely matters of import to our industry sector and hobby at stake here.
This is not the place for a discussion or comments on whether or not the results of the recent referendum are agreed with - it is about what effects may accrue to horticulture.
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just checking this thread, i don't think UK will leave schengen zone or it's the economical death of the country. And i think USA will make pressure on the EEC. Buying or Selling with Swiss just need cites papers, buying plants from Thailand is easier than importing from Ireland.
When i import plants from Israel the Cites cost less than 1£. So i don't think the exchange between the island and the EEC will be more complicated than now. The first benefits for UK exporters is the Pound devaluation, so nurseries should normally sell more with the rest of europe. However this is a short-term vision...
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Yann, the UK currently is not in the Schengen Zone despite being a member of the EU.
Interestingly Switzerland, Norway and Iceland ARE in the Schengen Zone but are not EU members. These three countries accept "Schengen" in exchange for access to the single EU market.
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Yann, the UK currently is not in the Schengen Zone despite being a member of the EU.
Interestingly Switzerland, Norway and Iceland ARE in the Schengen Zone but are not EU members. These three countries accept "Schengen" in exchange for access to the single EU market.
Yes, that would be a paradoxical outcome of Brexit Steve, especially as many of those who voted leave had immigration as a major concern. I genuinely have no idea what will happen next. However if we do leave the single market we are certainly going to face a lot of extra Red Tape that we didn't before if we want to buy plants from Europe.
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I wonder how we managed to trade and carry out our hobby before the common market?
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That would be in the days when it was acceptable to go abroad and dig up wild plants to take home? Nowadays a great many countries have a great many trade and collection regulations!
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Nowadays everybody is in a hurry to get the newest plants and selections
Most people have no time to seed and the long wait till it flowers
For me one of the nicest thing from growing
Swapping seeds and see the progress year after year
Roland
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Steve, you're not in the schengen zone but UK signed special agreements for commercial trades when Schengen was established.
One of the reason why no control are done in the freight exchanges (not the same with persons :-\). I can't imagine these agreements are cancelled.
Focusing on plants trading, until Cites rules are not changed with UK (should i still use united kingdom :() continental buyer will continue to buy from english nurseries.
sorry if I expressed myself badly, I am very tired and can't find my words
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Maggi, you don,t seem to have much confidence in our own politicians and their advisors. Perhaps they are no longer capable of running a country?
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...or a celebratory event in a beer production facility!
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Most of them couldn't run a tap.
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Most of them couldn't run a tap.
I know how to run a tap ;D
If I would get a pint for every lie told the public (for and against the brexit) I would probably be the rest if my life drunk :P
Seems the definition of a politician is "Legal Liar "
Luckily plant people are different
Roland
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My father always said: The two most important professions don't have a regular apprenticeship: Parent and Politician.
Hannelore
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Sterling continued its descent, in 2 weeks 1€=1£ ??
[attachimg=1]
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A perfect moment for non-Brits to donate to the SRGC Forum.
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Sterling continued its descent, in 2 weeks 1€=1£ ??
(Attachment Link)
Merely a blip Yann, take a look at it in six month's time > ;D
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Still a great time to donate to the SRGC though! Many thanks to those who do!!
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I hope it is only a blip David
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I hope it is only a blip David
Stake my life on it 8)
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In 6 months i'm pretty sure the sterling will be depreciated because of the needs to hold up the exports and decrease imports.
That's a simple rule that many countries (Quantitative easing) are currently playing at, but we all know that's not good for the future. between 1986 and 1988 the goverment devaluated the Sterling because the +/-12% unemployment, they're now playing the same music.
And yes a donation to the club is now cheaper for € folks ;D
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And yes a donation to the club is now cheaper for € folks ;D
And the $ crowd as well.
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Actually against most currencies John - a good time to join or donate if you are overseas, whether you live in Canada, New Zealand, Moldova, Morocco or North Korea (yes, really). And the seed exchange is soon too!
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Given that I see huge trucks delivering plants to the local quite tiny garden centre coming from various European countries (and the UK) I don't think there will be so much impact on mainstream gardening and plant availability. I see more and more plants being given "trade marks" or whatever and it seems to me this is now fairly big business. Prices may go up but I don't think much more than the market will bear.
What might get more difficult is obtaining the rarer things from Europe which aren't mass produced. But, then, I reflect, other than some seeds from Jan Bravenboer I never done any EU purchasing. Pure laziness I guess.
I may of course be totally wrong. It's been known to happen.
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almost 1€ parity, only in an intraday , Scottish whiskey is now affordable :D
[attachimg=1]
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almost 1€ parity, only in an intraday , Scottish whiskey is now affordable :D
Might be funny now but once the UK are gone and France and Germany have to fill the funding gap for the rest of the EU zone it may be a different story.
As you say though Whiskey becomes more attractive abroad so exports go up - its a win win
Its not the Britex that is causing this its the servicing of our debt that is not in some small measure to blame for this - and I know who is to blame for that
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i try to stand funny in these dark moments and yes the brexit is not good for us.
UK remains a major contributor to the EEC budget with +/-17 billion euros.
So it is the fourth largest contributor behind Germany, France and i think Italia.
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i try to stand funny in these dark moments and yes the brexit is not good for us.
UK remains a major contributor to the EEC budget with +/-17 billion euros.
So it is the fourth largest contributor behind Germany, France and i think Italia.
third largest gross contributor - second largest net contributor - France give more but get more back moving them from 2nd gross to 3rd net
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I hope we contribute in pounds rather than in euros because if it is the latter the contribution will be going up and up as the pound goes down and down.
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I hope we contribute in pounds rather than in euros because if it is the latter the contribution will be going up and up as the pound goes down and down.
Basically they have no respect for us so I wouldn't be paying anything - we should have never been in the position of bankrolling the rest of the EU
What are they going to do if we withold payment......
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Graeme, I think the recent comments have been about paying donations to the SRGC - which I do hope you think is worth it!
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Graeme, I think the recent comments have been about paying donations to the SRGC - which I do hope you think is worth it!
always worth it :)
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Thank goodness for that - you had me worried for a bit! ;D
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yesterday waiting for the doctor, i was reading in a magazine that 97% of the plants trade is illegal, only 2% is under contracts and 1% BtoC (only 1%!!!)
Nurseries sells only 1% of the plants in the trades, will Brexit grows the current 97%?
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1% BtoC (only 1%!!!)
Sorry, what does BtoC mean?
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Sorry, what does BtoC mean?
sorry: business to consumer
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Thanks Yann!
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yesterday waiting for the doctor, i was reading in a magazine that 97% of the plants trade is illegal
m-a-r-i-j-u-a-n-a ::)
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Is that an offer? ;D
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m-a-r-i-j-u-a-n-a ::)
Is that an offer? ;D
Now you flowerpots, which one of you is Bill and which one Ben? You may have to be a certain age to get the reference! ;) :))
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Now you flowerpots, which one of you is Bill and which one Ben? You may have to be a certain age to get the reference! ;) :))
weeeeeed ;D
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Just a little weeeeed
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We'll be talking about Tales of the Riverbank next!
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;D
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The "Postillon" a sort of German internet "Punch" published today the ultimate solution for you: Scotland and Switzerland swap territory!
[attach=1]
Here is the German article: https://www.der-postillon.com/2016/06/schottland-schweiz.html (https://www.der-postillon.com/2016/06/schottland-schweiz.html)
bw
Hannelore
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Only one problem, Hannelore - the Scots would be very reluctant to lose their coastline!
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;D
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The "Postillon" a sort of German internet "Punch" published today the ultimate solution for you: Scotland and Switzerland swap territory!
(Attachment Link)
Here is the German article: https://www.der-postillon.com/2016/06/schottland-schweiz.html (https://www.der-postillon.com/2016/06/schottland-schweiz.html)
bw
Hannelore
Can we have a referendum on that ;D
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Can we have a referendum on that ;D
Ho ho ho!
Boris Johnson: ho ho ho!
I just love your English humour!
It brings tears to my eyes. :'( :'( :'(
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Ho ho ho!
Boris Johnson: ho ho ho!
I just love your English humour!
It brings tears to my eyes. :'( :'( :'(
Boris spat the dummy when Gordon Brown became PM when Tony Blair resigned. Insisted in words only he to put together there should be an election to determine who should be PM. Double standards or what? Interesting article in The Guardian about how the UK is now ignoring EU pesticide rules! https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/12/uk-accused-silently-eroding-eu-pesticide-rules-brexit-laws?fbclid=IwAR0qc1S2C7xMS1QkOEede3ubxlp59h8_0t0-HbvsA1UxBo2uz0Qfqq3u4P4 (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/12/uk-accused-silently-eroding-eu-pesticide-rules-brexit-laws?fbclid=IwAR0qc1S2C7xMS1QkOEede3ubxlp59h8_0t0-HbvsA1UxBo2uz0Qfqq3u4P4)
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If there is a Brexit at least you'll be able to avoid having to get phytosanitary certificates for all seeds shipped in from outside the EU. The new regulation seems to define seeds as plants (!), meaning the same strict phytosanitary rules apply. Has anyone read through the whole thing, and know how it will affect seed exchanges, etc.?
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32016R2031