Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: chris on February 25, 2008, 08:29:19 PM
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here my first two Fritillaria in bloom this year, the first is F.raddeana, the one I showed last year in pot and now I have planted it out in the garden.
The second one is a bulb from Japan, F.ayakoana, didnt find information in the Gardener's Guide, can someone tell me how I have to treat it?
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Early (& short) Fritillaria messanensis ssp gracilis.
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The second one is a bulb from Japan, F.ayakoana, didnt find information in the Gardener's Guide, can someone tell me how I have to treat it?
With care, Chris! It's a little beauty. It is one of the group of Japanese frit woodlanders, including Frits japonica, koidzumiana (now a separate species), amabilis, shikokiana, and a couple more I can't remember. I grow 3 or 4 species in this group (depending on how many have come through the winter). They like a woodsy soil, well drained, plenty of leaf mould, with lots of shade in the summer. Sounds like hepaticas, so you should be OK with them. But they are not 100% hardy as they come from lower altitudes than japanese hepaticas. They are inclined to come through very early in the season and then they are vulnerable to frosts. I am very fond of them but they are not easy to get hold of and mine have never set seed.
Here's my Frit koidzumiana (sorry for fuzzy picture)
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Chris
Where did you get the Frit ayakoana? It is very beautiful.
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Diane
Where did you get your Frit. You said the Japanese were difficult to find, and I assume, therefore, expensive.
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Fritillaria ayakoana is gorgeous ! Ian looked at the picture and said... "oh, it's one of the japonica types... so pretty.. wish I had some to learn how to grow them!!" ???
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Diane Where did you get your Frit. You said the Japanese were difficult to find, and I assume, therefore, expensive.
Mine were free ;D ;D from a generous Japanese friend who stays with me several times a year. He gets them from Japanese nurseries. (It's the same source as most of my Hepatica japonica as well)
The easiest to get hold of in the UK is F koidzumiana (often listed under its old name of F japonica ssp koidzumiana). Paul Christian has sometimes sold it, it's also worth trying Edrom and Westonbirt.
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thanks Diane for the information, I think I will hold them in my alpine hous where most of my japanese hepaticas grow.
My Fritillarias where also a present from a japanese friend, he also brings F.japonica, F.koidzumiana, F.amabilis and F.shikokiana, two bulbs of each so I hope to get some seed.
F.sibthorpiana is flowering in the greenhouse
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My Fritillarias where also a present from a japanese friend, he also brings F.japonica, F.koidzumiana, F.amabilis and F.shikokiana, two bulbs of each so I hope to get some seed.
It would be nice to see pictures of your other Japanese species if possible
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if they will flower than I show them, Diane
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Chris and Diane, you are VERY fortunate...... it breaks our hearts that the BD and I have no Japanese friends :'( :'( :'( :'(
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Woo them with haggis Maggi, they'll probably think its a new mix of compost! ;)
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Good Lord, have all the Scots gone to sleep! I thought they'd be on me like a ton or is it tonne of bricks for making a crack about their gradely puddin.
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In truth, Shelagh, while a quality haggis can be a thing of mouthwatering delicacy, the fact is that nowadays most are barely useable even AS compost. :P
It's a sad life.... low calibre haggis and no Japanese frits...... :'( :'( :'(
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I wish I coult taste your mouthwatering haggis but I had only some japanese Frits, here F.japonica
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Oh Chris, that is exquisite.
Paddy
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In truth, Shelagh, while a quality haggis can be a thing of mouthwatering delicacy, the fact is that nowadays most are barely useable even AS compost. :P
It's a sad life.... low calibre haggis and no Japanese frits...... :'( :'( :'(
I had a delicious haggis for lunch today in a whiskey sauce,so they are not all bad but no frits.
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Wonderfull frits! I barely can't wait to see the next batch Frit photos!
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It's a sad life.... low calibre haggis and no Japanese frits...... :'( :'( :'(
I had a delicious haggis for lunch today in a whiskey sauce,so they are not all bad but no frits.
Ahhh, good old Haggis and Frits!! I'll probably be excommunicated from this forum for admitting to eating Fritillaria (well, once anyway), but in my opinion, it's the frits which are the most delicious and mouthwatering of the two, tasting like chestnuts... Fritillaria camschatcensis (and others) are of course staple food plants where they grow wild (even some of the Japanese Frits) :P
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Could the Japanese be encouraged to swap ready-to-eat haggis for some planting-ready frits? Not camtschatcensis which we've most likely all got plenty to be going on with, but the other, exquiste species? I'd even be happy to throw in a chilled lamb or two or perhaps some specially succulent cakes. ;D
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let's forget japanese Frits,just until the others are flowering,here one from Turkey and one from China, is it normal that the flowers from F.sewerzowii opens when the stem is only 15 cm high?
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My (single) bulb does it every year Chris. It's barely through the surface of the ground before the first flowers open. Mine is closer to brown than yours, a sort of pinky-tan. It doesn't ever get to be more than about 15 cms high so there seem to be shorter and taller forms.
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It must be typical for pot culture. Have never seen it with mine which are grown outdoors. Flowers always open on a vell-developed plant. Unfortunately the season here hasn't started yet, everything is covered with snow. I'll try to show them in development when they start growing (middle april, I think). This is true for F. raddeana as well.
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But the reverse seems to be true here Oleg. When I had my bulb in a pot (it was grown from seed and took 10 years to flower) it grew to about 30cms. It flowered there for 3 years and then I moved it to the open garden. Since then it has made a side bulb, still attached, but only grows to half the height.
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Thanks for pics, Lesley. The emerging shoots are always magnificient, aren't they? My congratulations with the side bulb. People here don't believe it gives side bulbs, but I have experienced side bulbs twice for appr. 10 years. Hope my 6 year seedlings will give such nice colour as yours (4 more years to wait?).
I'm not risky enough to expose Fr. sew. to summer rains and dig it up to store in warm sand till planting time in August. Do you have dry summers there?
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You may not have to wait ten years in total, Oleg, some will flower faster! Here's hoping you are lucky.
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thanks for encouragement, Maggy. With 6 month winters it's nice to even think we can enjoy the bloom earlier
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Love your Japanese F.ayakoana Chris. Mine are very common and ordinary in comparison but the first Fritillaria michailovskyi I remember being very expensive years ago and now is available cheaply in most garden centres.(I live in hope of a similar outcome with F.ayakoana ;D)
1 Fritillaria michailovskyi
2 Fritillaria pudica
3 Fritillaria pudica detail
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It may not be rare or expensive anymore John, but I still find F. michailovskyi a very attractive little gem ! ;)
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A friend of mine is growing this as
Frit meleagroides
Can anyone confirm this ID ?
Thanks for your help
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F. meleagroides is a very rare item. I don't have any data about it, but your plant is nevertheless surely very uncommon.
For me I obtain for the first time the flower of seeds received from the Fritillaria group in 2002 under the name F. obliqua. Sure the plant is little, about 15 cm high, but the style is clearly trifid and the folliage is twisted : so, F. tuntasia or F. obliqua ?
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Oleg, I think mine took so long to flower because it was in too small a pot and didn't always get repotted when it should so it just sat there for 2 or 3 years and did nothing much.
We do have quite dry summers most years though there is always SOME rain. The drainage is good enough though, for summer rains not to bother most things. Even the juno irises take their chances. Though I have quite a lot of bulbs in pots, all the pots are outside in whatever weather happens.
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Sure the plant is little, about 15 cm high, but the style is clearly trifid and the folliage is twisted : so, F. tuntasia or F. obliqua ?
Biodiversite, It looks like F.obliqua to me. My experience of F. tuntasia is of quite a tall plant (approx 30cm) with several flowers (up to 6) & a different leaf arrangement. However I've heard that there are hybrids between the two.
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A friend of mine is growing this as Frit meleagroides Can anyone confirm this ID ?
Luc, I've consulted "Flora of the USSR". On the basis of the entry there your plant could be F. meleagroides though it is difficult to be certain. It is described as 25-60cm tall with glabrous stems, leaves 3-7, alternate. Flowers solitary, smaller than F.meleagris, dark brownish-violet, faintly chequered, style trifid. Capsule oblong-ovoid, obtusely three-angled to 2cm long & 1cm in diameter. Flowers April-May.
"Flora Europaea" (Martyn Rix) gives a broadly similar description but adds that the nectaries are linear, 15 x 2mm & describes the flowers as blackish outside, greenish inside tessellated with purplish-brown - which doesn't correspond to your plant. However, I guess we can expect variation
I have some seedlings of what is supposed to be F.meleagroides but they have made very little growth so it will be a few years before I get any flowers - if they survive.
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A friend of mine is growing this as Frit meleagroides. Can anyone confirm this ID ?
Here's a picture of mine for comparison (taken last year, not in flower yet, this year.) It looks pretty similar to your friend's. Yours seems darker inside, but I can't think what else it could be so it's probably just variation. ???
Fritillaria meleagroides:
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Here's a picture of mine for comparison (taken last year, not in flower yet, this year.)
Diane, your plants are obviously thriving with two flowers per stem. The nectaries & style seem to correspond to the description in "Flora Europaea" even if the colour inside doesn't quite correspond.
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Maggi, my memory is that F. tuntasia is the sweet smelling one. Maybe there is something wrong with my nose (or my memory!)
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Luc, the frit in your pic is meleagroides.
Bio, I am pretty sure your frit is obliqua. tuntasia... a good way to tell for sure is to smell it... if it smells very nice then it is obliqua! Not very scientific but effective!
Note: I have edited my post because I am smitten with doubt... yes, obliqua has the good scent.... but is it tuntasia which looks more like Lilium soulei? ????? Sorry, I'll sleep on it!
Gerry, tuntasia smells quite good but obliqua is better! I think I was getting myself muddled with a pic of Frit. biflora which I was looking at earlier..... don't even know now if it was in the Forum or not! I need more sleep!
Twisted leaves are good for tuntasia and often a plant needs to be older before the multiple flowers come.
Tuntasia leaves can be longer, though.... oh, I give up.... :-[ :-\ ???
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Uau! Congratulations on the nice frits!
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Maggi, Now I have my doubts. Checking all the literature I have (including Floras & Field Guides) both F. tuntasia & F. obliqua are described as scented, though each author seems to single out one or the other (not both) for the accolade. Noses obviously differ in their response to scent. There does seem to be agreement that in the wild F. tuntasia is the taller plant & has more flowers (though not invariably) & this is my memory of the plants I used to grow under these names. I also had one whose identity I could never determine - a hybrid? I no longer have any.
Bio, I suspect you will not be able to attempt a positive identification until your plants are a good deal older unless you can find out the wild source of the plant from which the seed came.
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Gerry! You're as bad as I am!! ;)
Ian has a couple of pix of F. obliqua in old Bulb Logs.... No 13 /2003 http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/280303/log.html
and No. 15/2004 http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2004/080404/log.html
By those pix... Bio's plant is obliqua! Her seed came from the Frit. group, so should be correct.
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Her seed came from the Frit. group, so should be correct.
????????????????????????????????????
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JoF ( John Forrest) has a pic of tuntasia in the old Forum : http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/8/25686.html it shows the more pronounced shoulders which I associate with tuntasia... so yes, I do think Bio's plant is obliqua!
Oh, and Gerry, you are a frightful cynic ;)
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This is beginning to sound very much like the discussion about a certain crocus! ??? ??? :-X :-X
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Thanks very much for your help everyone - I was sure I would get some comments for my friend - he will now be able to rest assured that he is growing F. meleagroides !
Thanks again.
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Would appreciate your thoughts on the pot of Fritillaria michailovskyi
Overall view
Close-up of aberrant plant
Close-uo of normal flower
Fritillaria montana
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Hi Arthur!
The dark one is amazing! Why that tall shoot pale and not as green as the surrounding ones? Was it buried?
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An aberrant flower, Arthur, but not a diseased one, I'm pretty sure.
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Hi Arthur!
The dark one is amazing! Why that tall shoot pale and not as green as the surrounding ones? Was it buried?
Exactly the same conditions When it first emerged, it looked as if it had come through snow - I thought it would green up, but it just got taller.
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Would appreciate your thoughts on the pot of Fritillaria michailovskyi
You will be aware of the fact that most Frit. michailovsky come from Microprop.
So you never know what happens.
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You will be aware of the fact that most Frit. michailovsky come from Microprop.
So you never know what happens.
Luit,
For me - being completely new to the problems of this theme - micropropagation seems to be a wonderful tool for multiplication of plants which were difficult to increase otherwise.
I am very much interested in failures and problems which may appear and the limits of micropropagation.
So please, Luit (and others) don't let me be in the dark any longer ??? ??? ???
Gerd
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Gerd, I have seen this mostly happening with Hosta, which are grown here by the 100.000nds.
I would never (if) buy micropropagated Hosta.
It is right that it is a very quick method and for some plants the only way, but I believe that after years it is possible that some hidden gens suddenly start to come out.
But of course I admit not knowing much about these matter and might be totally wrong.
I just tell my meaning and what I've seen with my own eyes.
And I am sure being an 'old'fashioned gardener. :D :D :D
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Gerd & Luit, when micropropagated frits (mainly F. michailovskyi) first appeared in the UK some years ago I remember many growers claiming that they were difficult or impossible to establish & grow on. Today it is possible to buy many frit species quite cheaply. Are all these microprops?
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I "think" the problem wih micropropagation occurs when you use an original plant ('a') for microprop (which makes 'b'), then use some of the results ('b') to microprop (to get 'c'), then use some of them ('c') to microprop (and get 'd') etc.... getting further and further away from the original plant. I think of it like you're stretching something.... the further down the ladder you are from the original the more stretched and likely to break it is. I think I recall that by the 4th microprop (which I think using my example above would be level 'e') there can often be gross abnormalities etc. It doesn't matter if you make millions from the original plant, I'm just meaning once you start using the results for the next microprop instead of fresh "original" material. Does that make sense?
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Does that make sense?
Yes Paul, it makes sense. However, I'm not sure it explains the problems with microprops - if there are any - since surely the same description applies to natural, vegetative increase? As I understand it, micropropagation is basically a more intensive form of vegetative propagation. In this process the increase in quantity of plant tissue is much more rapid than in nature thus permitting more somatic mutations to arise in a given time & subsequently accumulate. It is often claimed that prolonged vegetative increase of the normal/natural kind can result in weak or unhealthy plants. I would really like to know the extent to which this process is used in the commercial production of the less common bulbous plants.
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Thank you alltogether !
Very interesting discussion - I hope it will be continued!
Gerd
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Very interesting article!
Arthur,
please post a picture again when the tall frit has opened its flowers.
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I would really like to know the extent to which this process is used in the commercial production of the less common bulbous plants.
A Google search has given a partial answer to my own question. It would seem that all the major groups of bulbous plants have been micropropagated. Since the process is quite expensive to set up & run it seems to have been primarily used so far in the production of commercially important crops such as hyacinths, tulips & especially lilies; in the Netherlands more than 12 million annually of the latter. On a smaller scale or on a trial basis narcissus, fritillaries, bulbous iris & crocus (especially Crocus sativus) have been micropropagated. Almost any part of the plant can be used as starting material & very large numbers of flowering size plants which are free of pathogens can be produced relatively quickly. Thus in a laboratory trial N. bulbocodium microprops flowered the first season after transplanting into a normal compost, i.e., less than two years from the start. It seems likely that in future more of the plants we are interested in will be produced in this way.
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I'm astonished by what you guys are telling about microprop. :o
Very interesting.
Thanks very much everyone !
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Would appreciate your thoughts on the pot of Fritillaria michailovskyi
I forgot to ask the first time how many bulbs you planted in the pot.
What Gerry is telling us is very interesting and I think I would find a lot more things in the library of the
Bulb Society, which I will not go after, because the reading is mostly too scientific for an simple gardener like me.
I "think" the problem wih micropropagation occurs when you use an original plant ('a') for microprop (which makes 'b'), then use some of the results ('b') to microprop (to get 'c'), then use some of them ('c') to microprop (and get 'd') etc.... getting further and further away from the original plant. I think of it like you're stretching something.... the further down the ladder you are from the original the more stretched and likely to break it is. I think I recall that by the 4th microprop (which I think using my example above would be level 'e') there can often be gross abnormalities etc. It doesn't matter if you make millions from the original plant, I'm just meaning once you start using the results for the next microprop instead of fresh "original" material. Does that make sense?
I think I can find myself in what Paul is writing. This might have happened with the Frits?
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It is well known that micropropagation can result in plants that vary in some way from the original parent. The scientists call this "somaclonal variation". This happens because some of the chemicals and proceedures used in microprop can cause mutations.
Sometimes these mutations result in a plant that looks different to the original one used to propagate from. This is obviously a problem if you are trying to get uniform stock! - but sometimes can result in a plant where the differences are attractive and so the technique can be used to generate new varieties.
Where you do want uniform stock, there are certain things they do to try and avoid the variation - one of which is to regularly start afresh from the original material and not use the micropropped plants themselves to make further microprops from - as Paul explained so well previously. They also try to avoid using certain chemicals which are known to cause more mutations than other chemicals they could choose.
Paul
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Would like to know if Arthur's plant is flowering already? Pictures??
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Luit
Your wish is granted. Taken today, here is a photograph of the 3 strange flowers, plus a close-up of the inside of a flower - I had to force it open.
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Here is a close-up of a Fritillaria minuta, not the loveliest of the species, but nice to have.
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Fritillaria conica,
Fritillaria Bithynica ex Turkey.
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Luit
Your wish is granted. Taken today, here is a photograph of the 3 strange flowers, plus a close-up of the inside of a flower - I had to force it open.
Arthur it has really a little bit of F. michailovskyi, but very different ofcourse.
So I think I stay with my first thought. Something went wrong with propagation.
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Luit
I did send a photograph to Leonid Bondarenko and asked if he used micropropogation. This was his reply:
"It can be a hybrid plant (F.michailowskyi x F. kurdica). I do not use microclonal propagation, but many of my plants are of seed origin and free pollination can be. I can see more definitively, when see the plant in full flowering."
I will now send him the latest photographs and then post his reply.
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Some fritillaria pics from me
fritillaria sewerzowii (green-flowered form)
fritillaria collina (previously lutea) - native to our region, unlike other stocks offered in trade, most of my samples increase vegetatively
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These are beautiful Zhirair. The green-flowered sewerzowii in particular. Is collina always so much taller than aurea? My aurea is barely 5cms tall though I know it varies.
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Beautiful frits from all!
Zhirair,
very nice F. collina (lutea).
Also F. sewerzowii is extrordinary. How tall is it?
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last year I moved my meleagris which had been growing for some years in one spot and they are now flowering.They have been bought from the garden centre over several years.The first to flower is this one and it looks very different and i wondered if there were any ideas on what it might be.
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Tony
Looks like one of the numerous Chinese Frits that we know so little about. Did you do business with Madame Chen Yi
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I think it is meleagris but for some reason has grown a bit "odd." It looks thicker in texture, so perhaps some way towards a fasciated flower?
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Lesley,
Fritillaria collina is usually 10-12 cm tall in the wild with smaller flowers. The plants shown were replanted from wild 2 years ago. Last year only one flowered and this year all samples are in bloom. It seriously increased the sizes: flowers are the double size and the height is 25 cm. But I hope that next year it'll get into its best when the bulbs mature.
Armin,
Fritillaria sewerzowii is, indeed, very nice and unusual, especially in the photos. In real it somewhat lacks contrast. Height is 30 cm. Now all the flowers are open and it looks at its best. I hope to post more pics soon.
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Zhirair,
That Frit collina is stunning, and the green sewerzowii is rather impressive as well. Think I prefer the collina though! :D Wonderful colour and form to it.
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Arthur,yes I have had plants from Chen yi very successfully but did not do frits.I wonder if a bee passed through my greenhouse and then garden.
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Armin,
during break time I went to measure the height of fritillaria sewerzowii. It was 47 cm tall, not 30 as I stated before just approximately.
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Zhirair,
thanks for length confirmation :D
Please still show a picture of the fritillaria sewerzowii if you can.
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We grow various forms of Fritllaria sewerzowii, and have it under glass and outdoors. Here are some Bulb Log references for it:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2008/120308/log.html
http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2008/190308/log.html
Here are references from Len Rhind's latest Bulb Log Index!
http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/index.pdf
Fritillaria sewerzowii 8/03 12/04 6/05 10/
05 12/05 9/06 10/06 12/06 29/
06 33/06 14/07 23/07 11/08 12/
08 13/08
bulbs 33/04 30/05 34/07
compact 10/05
'lilyflora' seedlings 11/03 12/
04 6/05
seed 30/05
shoots, various 5/04
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Roma..... is your Fritillaria recurva flower open yet?
Roma is a terrific grower, who used to work at the Cruickshank Botanic Garden ..... skilled in all sorts of plants; Cyclamen you name it, you will have seen Roma a and her Forrest Medal Winning plants in Sandy's show reports. The other evening at our local meeting, Roma told me that she was waiting for a bud to open on a Frit. recurva, from seed. Surprisingly to me, my friend had not grown this species from seed before. It is one of my favourite frits and I was pleased to hear that Roma was excited about a new flower, too!
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Maggi, you are fabulous 8) :-* ;)
Thanks for Bulb log reference (promotion ;D)
Reminds me to look more often to the Bulb log
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Maggi, you are fabulous
Thanks for Bulb log reference (promotion )
Reminds me to look more often to the Bulb log
My pleasure, Armin, there is much of interest there and I like to remind you all!
I wonder if I could be paid for this work for Ian ::) ;) chocolate, kisses, or both? ;)
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Maggi, the Fritillaria recurva isn't quite open yet but I can see it is the real thing. From AGS seed sown in February 2005. I still get excited at the first flowering of something I haven't grown before especially if it is the true plant.
There you have bullied me into posting at last.
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Great news, Roma! You are one of the best folks I know to hold up as an example of the joys of growing from seed, be it from an exchange , your own plants or from collected seed....but ME..... "bully".... surely not.... all it took was a gentle push in the right direction!! Bless You!! :-*
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Ref my reply 62 where I showed the aberrant flowers on a Frit michailovskyi, here is the reply from Leonid Bondarenko when I sent him the photos.
"I see the strange plant is F. michailowskyi. I have two clones with short multiflowered plants and tall ones having 1- rarely 3 flowers. I grow my fritillarias in open ground (not in pots). Because this method is exclusively benevolent for plants and often bulbs grown by me are unusual large size comparing with the same plants of my colleagues in UK. Probably the bulb was too large."
I have ordered some more Frit michailovskyi for this year - hope they are all the short beautifully coloured form.
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Nice to michailovskyi. Had it once years ago but lost it. Must grow it from seed sometime to let it acclimate here from the start. I find some of the Frits have troubles shifting into our climate from the cooler climes of Tasmania where the specialist growers are. I do so like Frits!! ;D
Thanks to everyone for posting the wonderful pics of your glorious Frits. Definitely many I have never seen in person before, nor likely to either!
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Ref my reply 62 where I showed the aberrant flowers on a Frit michailovskyi, here is the reply from Leonid Bondarenko when I sent him the photos.
"I see the strange plant is F. michailowskyi. I have two clones with short multiflowered plants and tall ones having 1- rarely 3 flowers. I grow my fritillarias in open ground (not in pots). Because this method is exclusively benevolent for plants and often bulbs grown by me are unusual large size comparing with the same plants of my colleagues in UK. Probably the bulb was too large."
I have ordered some more Frit michailovskyi for this year - hope they are all the short beautifully coloured form.
Thank you Arthur.
But if there are two clones, it would be better this big one should get a name.
Everybody who wants F. michailowskyi, wants the short one, but if he gets the big one, he would not
be able to complain.
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Luit
The tall one is like no Frit michailovskyi I have ever seen in the wild.
I will grow the excellent short one in a pot and exile the tall one to the garden.
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That's funny because ALL the F. michailovskyi I have (all from seed) are the short kind, never more than about 12cms at full maturity and I'd love to have some taller kinds. I have a little seed available now of my short one if anyone is interested.
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Lesley
When I return from my Iranian adventure, I will try to find my slides of michailovskyi in Turkey. They were all at least 10 inches tall (25cm). I have never seen short ones in the wild.
The horrible short multi-headed plants sold as michailovskyi are not at all typical of the wild population.
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Fortunately, all mine are single or occasionally double-headed. I've never seen the multi-headed kind, just read about them. They sound coarse.
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Fortunately, all mine are single or occasionally double-headed. I've never seen the multi-headed kind, just read about them. They sound coarse.
Lesley
Trust me - they are
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I purchased 3 bulbs of Fritillaria minuta last year. 2 look OK, the other obviously isn't. Any chance of a true ID please?
Regards,
Mick
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Mick - looks like F. hermonis subsp. amana, or, if you prefer to be more up-to-date, F.amana.
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I agree with Gerry Mick.
I have a theory that if you grow a colection of fritillaria for long enough eventually they all turn into either Frit hermonis amana or F. acmopetala :) :(
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Thanks for the quick and speedy responses Gerry and Ian.
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Maggi. thanks for the links.
The flowers are just great! What a beauty! I got much pleasure out of looiking and studying the plants.
Armin, my fr. sewerzowii get nicer day by day as more flowers open. I will certainly post some more pics.
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Evolution must be even faster here. By the time mine came up, they had ALL switched to amana 8)
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Armin,
as I promissed I post some additional pics
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Both are extremely beautiful frits Zhirair. Thanks so much for the further pics. Just love that lutea!! :D
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Zhirair
Is your Fritillaria lutea, more commonly known as aurea. I normally associate lutea with Fritllaria imperialis
Beautiful photos as always - the sewerzovii is a rich colour and looks better than most I have seen, does it set seed?
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Art,
Fritillarias lutea and aurea are different species. Lutea was lately renamed as collina.
Sewerzowii is first year in my collection and a sigle plants. This species usually set seeds freely, but I don't know a single plant will do.
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Zhirair-
Your F. collina is really magnificent. How tall are these plants? It is difficult to judge from a photograph but the flowers look rather larger than those I have seen in the UK.
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Gerry,
Fritillaria collina is usually 10 cm tall in the wild, but in culture it is twice as larger - up to 25 cm tall and the flowers have an impressive size.
Those plants were collected and replanted from the wild 2 years ago. last year only one sample flowered, but now all did. I hope next year the sizes will increase again.
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One from the garden.
Fritillaria meleagris aphrodite
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Zhirair,
thanks for your beautiful pix ;)
Michael,
a beautiful white F. meleagris. My just have buds - not open yet.
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In spite of all the great and precious rarities and lovely colours in the genus, I still think white F. meleagris are lovliest of all.
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Lesley,
I also admire white meleagris and mines are already about to bloom, so soon I will post some pics. I just started to expand my frit collection, but because of my unsufficent experience lost some very valuable species and varieties due to overwatering the pots during winter time. But this species, camschatcensis and hermonis ssp. amana didn't suffer at all in spite of this and happily continue growing.
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The earliest frits (grown in a protected cold frame) are long gone here in Maryland. Others are just starting to bloom.
At least one Fritillaria here has successfully transmogrified itself into F. hermonis amana: I hope it isn't catching!
Here are several which are blooming now: Fritillaria orientalis, F. tubiformis, F. davisii and F. messanensis ssp. gracilis. All were photographed in the garden in poor light, and the image quality might be better.
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The image of Fritillaria orientalis has gone missing - I think my guardian angel might have stepped in and pulled it.
Here's Fritillaria bithynica in exchange. Or at least I hope that is what it is. Please let me know if it's not! ???
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Looks spot on to me Jim.
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That's the way my fritillaria hermonis ssp. amana look. It is rather tall up to 50 cm.
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Zhirair -
Your F.hermonis amana is amazing at 50cm. How do you do it? I've never seen one taller than 20-25cm.
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Stunning Frits everyone !
Nothing so special here - but I do like good old F. michailovskyi :
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Jim, can you not post your "lost" orientalis again.... it seems to have disappeared into the ether.....
Gerry, take a look at the posts from the Edinburgh show David Milward's F. hermonis amana were pretty tall, as were the two forms shown in the RBGE display.
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Maggi, there is no lost image of Fritillaria orientalis. The image was of F. bithynica all along. I was in a hurry and sent the wrong image (one which had not been properly resized). The bulb which produced that plant had been received as Fritillaria orientalis, and the folder in which files relating to that plant were kept was still labeled F. orientails. As soon as I clicked on "send" I realized what I had done - and was temporarily mortified that I had posted an incorrectly named image. So imagine my delight when the image disappeared (my guardian angel again). I’ve always assumed that my guardian angel is a boy angel, but now I’m wondering: are angels ever named Maggi? 8) ::)
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are angels ever named Maggi?
I don't think so, Jim :-\
Actually, aren't ALL angels boys? Archangel Gabriel and so on?
Fun to see that the frits are at about the same stage with you over the pond as they are here 8)
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Actually, aren't ALL angels boys? Archangel Gabriel and so on?
Maggi - in Haydn's oratorio 'The Creation' the Archangel Gabriel is usually sung by a soprano. Make of that what you will.
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But would it, in Haydn's time, have been a BOY soprano? He's certainly (Gabriel) always depicted as wearing a dress. :D
But I'm quite happy to accept that all guardian angels are called "Maggi."
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But would it, in Haydn's time, have been a BOY soprano?
Lesley - You are probably right. I should have thought of that.
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The gender of soprano...
My friends and I have often had serious discussions about this at the opera: does one properly bellow bravo or brava for the soprano? Four of us got into a heated discussion about this recently. One of our party was of the opinion that gentlemen don't show their appreciation of the performance by bellowing at the performer. Another of our party, of Latin ancestry, assured us that the custom in the countries where the music we had just heard had been composed was indeed to display one's enthusiasm vociferously. A third member of our party was uncertain about just what to bellow: bravo or brava? Most of the audience seemed to be shouting bravo! when Tosca took her bows. Our Latin friend sniffed at this and revved up the volume on his calls of brava!
I said nothing at the time, but over after theater drinks I pointed out that the word soprano is masculine in gender: it's just as in botanical nomenclature where an adjectival specific epithet must agree in gender with its genus, so bravo! it is from me. ;) ::)
By the way, an old tradition is for the role of Gabriel and the role of Eve to be sung by the same person. It's formidable music: not the stuff for a boy soprano (although ideal for a castrato, although I don't think that was the practice for this piece).
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Gerry,
I haven't done a special treatment to fr. hermonis ssp. amana. I just planted it in leafy soil in a big pot. It is from a very large bulb.
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More off topic, sorry.... was Haydn not writing at the time of the greatest fame of the castrati?
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In the first performance of 'The Creation' (1798) the part of Gabriel (& Eve) was sung by the soprano Christine Gerardi. So it seems angels can be female.
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Perhaps we could re-enact a performance at the SRGC weekend? Now....down to the casting...?
Suggestions please to Maggi....
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Luc,
The F. michailovskyi mightn't be anything special to you, but it certainly is to me. Beautiful flower, and beautiful picture. Mine went to the great garden in the sky years ago and I've never replaced it. I really must do so one of these years, as I've commented before when someone else said it was nothing special. I think it is a stunning Frit..... and I'm jealous as anything of you who are flowering it!! ;D
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More off topic, sorry.... was Haydn not writing at the time of the greatest fame of the castrati
Perhaps we could re-enact a performance at the SRGC weekend? Now....down to the casting...?
Suggestions please to Maggi....
Are you volunteering Cliff? Who's bringing the knife?? ;D ;D
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What a cutting comment Diane!
Can't see to type....my eyes are watering so much.......
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Would love to chime in there but nothing springs to mind right now. :)
Paul, I have some seed still of F. michailovskyi if you'd like to try it. Usually flowers in 3-4 years.
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A few Frits today. Feel free to correct names as they are all from seed.
Fritillaria lusitanica.?
Fritillaria sibthorpiana.?
fritillaris involucrata ?
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Here are some shots of Fritillaria hermonis in meadow and bulb bed.
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A few Frits today. Feel free to correct names as they are all from seed.
Michael - I think frits can be quite difficult to identify from photos (& in the flesh) & I would hesitate to make definite pronouncements. However, F.sibthorpiana usually has yellow flowers. Your plant looks more like F.acmopetala in terms of flower shape though F.acmopetala usually has a variety of brown markings on the tepals. Your F. involucrata seems to have the whorl of three bracts above the flower which is characteristic of this species - but also of some other species. We really need to see the nectaries. As far as I can judge from a photo, your F.lusitanica looks as though it might be correct.
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A picture of frit kotschyanus i got from Dieter Zschummel.The seed came from Kiev Botanic garden.
Also frit meleagris which is growing in the garden.
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It is purely coincidence Tony that I should post this picture of a Fritillaria meleagris in the garden today. I have never seen 3 flowers on a single stem before this - and they are big.
In the greenhouse is Frit epirotica and Frit gussichae?
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Have to agree with Gerry re F. sibthorpiana. Yellow and relatively small.
Why did I think (assume?) F. epirotica is yellow or yellowish green?
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Why did I think (assume?) F. epirotica is yellow or yellowish green?
Lesley - maybe you saw the Frit Group Newsletter no.6. On p17 there is a photo (by Ruby Baker) of a yellowish F.epirotica growing in the Katara Pass, Greece. Very nice it is too.
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Lesley - you may have confused it with Fr. euboeica which is yellow and green. Alphabetically they are next door neighbours
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A picture of frit kotschyanus i got from Dieter Zschummel.The seed came from Kiev Botanic garden.
Tony - the colour of your frit suggests F.grandiflora. Some people think that grandiflora & kotschyana are the same thing or that grandiflora is a subsp. of kotschyana (Martyn Rix) but the Kew monocot list keeps them as distinct species. The taxonomically significant differences seem quite small.
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Here are 2 frits - quite different versions of the genus
Fritillaria verticillata and Fritillaria tubiformis ssp. moggridgei
Gerd
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Gerd- your F. tubiformis ssp. moggridgei is superb. Are they growing outside? It looks like it.
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Lesley - you may have confused it with Fr. euboeica which is yellow and green. Alphabetically they are next door neighbours
I shouldn't be surprised Oleg. I seem to get confused about a lot of things lately. Second childhood will be welcome as, hopefully, I can begin to learn - and remember - all over again. :D
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Wonderful frits Gerd. Does this form vary or perhaps hybridize with the regular plummy form? I've grown a couple of batches from AGS seed and both times the flowering plants turned out a sort of orangey colour with light red chequering, neither yellow nor plum. Lovely but not what I was wanting.
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Gerd,
Wonderful pictures!!! Fr. verticillata appeals me a lot with its elegant look. How tall does it grow?
I have now my fritillaria meleagris forms blooming in pots.
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Gerry,
Yes, these plant are outside for more than 10 years - see pic!
Lesley,
No variation here, also not at the site in the Alpes Maritime, where
I saw them in the wild. All my plants came from wild collected seeds - no chance for hybridisation.
Boyed,
Frit. verticillata is up to 80 cm high - see pic!
Gerd
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Does anyone know what this is? It is chinese, 15 cm tall and the flowers are huge in relation to plant, 5cm.
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Susan - Can't help with identification. Just - my congratulations! You8 have a real treasure whatever the name.
Lesley - We are all enjoying your wit.Always.
Gerd - Thanks for fantastic pics you've posted
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Susan - your frit may be F.crassicaulis, though I wouldn't put money on it - unfortunately your photos don't show enough of the right details to be sure. If you have the patience, you can access the the Fritillaria section of the 'Flora of China' on the web (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=113029). There is a key, descriptions of taxa & some illustrations - line drawings.
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Thanks Gerry,
I think you are right, I remember now that someone suggested that last year.
The problem with bulb keys is that they always start with the bulb description and end with the seed capsule description. Not very helpful when you are trying to find the name of a flowering plant ::)
Susan
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Gerd your frits are wonderful.
Gerry you may be right about my kotchyanus.I have seen grandiflora and it looks just the same.I understand the seed came from Kiev botanic garden so you would hope it would be correct.Maybe they are just the same thing
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Whatever your yellow is Susan, it's a real honey. :P
Here's a pic of my grandiflora, from 6 months ago. I only have kotschyanus as FGAGS seedlings.
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This came (indirectly) from Martyn Rix. The stem elongated to about 15cms but the flower was huge, about 5 cm in height, almost 4 across.
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Gerd,
height of frit. verticillata sounds very impressive and it must be showy for the garden. In catalogues they usually mention 30-50 cm height for this species. And I would like to know if its flowers have the same sizes as those of mellegaris or smaller.
Lesley,
the short height of your fr. grandiflora is surprising me. Mine get 60 cm tall. Here are the last years pictures. Now it is in bud and I hope that soon I will again see it in bloom. It looks very good in combination with my tulips and is one of my garden gems.
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Gerd, I am not sure but perhaps your Frit verticillata is actually thunbergii. There is a lot of confusion between the two. Here are pictures of Frit verticillata 'Kara-sumbe' and 'Urdzhar' both from Janis Ruksans. Also a picture of my thunbergi which I got previously as verticillata (also I think from Janis) :-\ The petals on the verticillata are whiter and more fleshy. Sorry about the thunbergii photo it is the only one I could find and its not flowering yet.
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Susan,
I do agree with you. I also think that Gerd's frit must be thumbergii.
Your shots are beutiful! I wonder how large the flowers of your verticillata cultivars are.
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Boyed,
The plants are smaller and more robust than thunbergii. The thunbergii come through the ground very early but the flowers do not open until quite late on. Verticulata on the other hand has just recently appeared but will flower at the same time.
The flowers of Kara-sumbe are quite small (about 2-3cm long)but beautifully shaped and strong. On Urdzhar they are larger about 3-4cm and equally fleshy. This is through memory, I will check once they are flowering this year.
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Thanks Susan,
I received both cultivars in autumn, but, unfortunately, lost during winter due to overwatering.
I ask those size related questions, beacause many frits look very beautiful in photos, but in natuaral they turn out be not that impressive, at least for my taste. I don't have a rock garden and so I mostly look for showy plants for good garden display.
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I agree with Susan & Zhirair that Gerd's frit is F.thunbergii. For many years this was widely known as F.verticillata & still is in many places. It is only recently that the true F. verticillata has been cultivated in Western Europe.
Zhirair - the flowers of F. thunbergii are usually somewhat smaller than those of F.meleagris but who knows what will happen in your garden where all the frits become giants!
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Well, you learn something new every day.... as far as I knew verticillata and thunbergii were synonyms for the same thing.
Gerd,
The Fritillaria tubiformis ssp. moggridgei is stunning. Love those little square flowers, and in such a good yellow.
The grandifloras that have been posted are pretty nice too!!
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o k - my Fritillaria verticillata is in fact thunbergii. Thank you for clarification! I compared my plant with a pic shown in The Bulb Book by Rix & Phillips.
There the photo of F. verticillata (p. 87) shows exactly my plant - but, I didn't notice the text, which is: The form shown here is F. thunbergii Miq., which is that usually cultivated.
Flowers of my plant are much smaller than those of F. meleagris.
Susan, your plants are magnificent!
Gerd
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Zhirair - the flowers of F. thunbergii are usually somewhat smaller than those of F.meleagris but who knows what will happen in your garden where all the frits become giants!
Good said Gerry. It relates not only frits, but also tulips. I don't know why, but all my tulips get larger and 20-30 taller of thier normal or expected heights. Maybe they love me, who knows. I must say that I don't use any fertilisers at all.
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Here are some shots of Fritillaria imperialis & persica in flowers today.
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Of Franz, you stun and amaze us yet again. These are magnificent and make me green with envy.
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Wonderful plants Franz !!!!
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Lesley,
What's the next level past green, envy-wise. I think we're going to have to meet there sometime. Those imperialis and persica are absolutely STUNNING!! :o 8)
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Thank you all together for the kind comments.
Lesley,
By the way, many years ago (15 years) Fritillaria persica grow without difficulties. This year had I after 15 years again a beautiful flower. But question not why - I do not know. With F. imperialis I did not have problems.
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Thank you all together for the kind comments.
Lesley,
By the way, many years ago (15 years) Fritillaria persica grow without difficulties. This year had I after 15 years again a beautiful flower. But question not why - I do not know. With F. imperialis I did not have problems.
How strange to have no flowers for so long on the F. persica..... but how strange ....and good....that the bulbs still lived on after all that time.
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My only bulb of F. persica flowered 4 years ago and not since. Maybe I'll have to wait another 11 years? :)
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here is a frit collected in the Caucusus and it has been named Elbrusgelb. This is a small specimen,I find frits very difficult and so am, pleased that at least it has flowered
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One must have patience and hoping. I was happy if I saw green leaves and disappoints that no flowers came.
By the way, many years ago (15 years) Fritillaria persica grow without difficulties. This year had I after 15 years again a beautiful flower. But question not why - I do not know. With F. imperialis I did not have problems.
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It is very difficult to grow Fritillaria in the Alps. But here are some from my garden (Croatia, Turkey and kotschyanus).
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All the new pics are lovely. Roll on spring time. :)
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Hi everybody.
This is fotos of a fritillaria obtained from seeds in 2002. First flowering this year, and in the same pot a mix of this species with F. acmopetala. Wich is ? The plant is almost as tall as F. acmopetala, the style is highly trifid, but I can't give it a name :'(
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Bio, this looks like Fritillaria messanensis
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Bio - Frits are often difficult to identify from photos. Maggi may be right though I am inclined to think F. involucrata. F. messanensis is usually somewhat flared at the mouth of the flower.
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Bio - Frits are often difficult to identify from photos. Maggi may be right though I am inclined to think F. involucrata. F. messanensis is usually somewhat flared at the mouth of the flower.
Frits are often difficult to identify from photos.... well, that's true!
F. messanensis is usually somewhat flared at the mouth of the flower......not always, though!
I do agree that F. involucrata is another candidate.... Bio's pix "look " like that, too ::)
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Hmm, I have some strains of F. messanensis but no one has little square red and white dots. Actually, strains have a maroon uniform color, and others have a medial green line.
I never grow F. involucrata : I thought it was difficult...
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Then, this page http://www.fritillaria.org.uk/ppit6.htm let me think that Gerry is ok. Thank to you both :) !
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Bio - I've always found F. involucrata difficult. I've tried it 3 or 4 times & always lost it. Yours look very good.
You don't say whereabouts in France you are but if you are in the south you could see it in the wild; there are said to be good colonies above both Grasse & Menton.
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I'm in the south east near Grenoble. I red in the book of the protected plants of France what you say about wild F. involucrata, but I don't know the exact actual status of these colonies.
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Bio - Sorry, I have no detailed information about the location of the wild colonies of F. involucrata. Grenoble to Grasse or Menton is not too far - photos of wild plants would be wonderful!
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Here is the first frit flowering in the open garden here this year
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Nice, Oleg.
For comparison, this species opened its first flower here in my Maryland USA garden on February 23! That plant grows in a cold frame which has been open most of the time becasue we are having very mild weather.
The last of the Eurasian Fritillaria are blooming here now; several North American sorts should open very soon, and they will be the last to bloom this year.
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These two were grown from rice from Holland. Does anyone know what they could possibly be? Labelled as F. bithynica
johnw
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It looks like F. pontica to me.
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It looks like F. pontica to me.
Thanks Leslie - I just looked up pontica in The Gardener's Guide to Frits and it agrees. With 6 black eyes in the interior.
I wonder how winter hardy it is given its provenance.
johnw
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Thanks, Jim.
As summers here are rather wet I have to dig up frit species with dry natural habitats in summer to store them dry. They appear quite happy like this unlike Noth American species which don't seem to be enjoying our weather conditions
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John - F.pontica will certainly tolerate summer wet but whether it would be happy being both wet & extremely cold in winter is open to question. I'd be inclined to protect it.
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This is the beginning of the frit season here
fritillaria bucharica.
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Don't know why, but only 1 picture per a post
fritillaria raddeana
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fritillarias tubiformis & pinardii to compare the size of flowers
F. severtzovii
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The more I see of sewertzowii the more I like it. Must track it down one day to grow it, as it is such a nice plant. These Frit pics are all very impressive. So nice to see them at this time of year (i.e late Autumn).
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Impressive photos!
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Thanks, Paul and Mike. All frits are worth growing, but obviously, Fr. severtzovii is a very special one, they differ a lot in size and colour. The plant I've shown is rather small in size, but a giant one with yellow flowers is going to bloom in a few days, so I'll try to take a pic.
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Sorry for the same pic twice
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OlegKon (Sorry I am unsure of your actual name),
Congratulations on growing these beauties. I would definitely love to see the yellow version when it opens. You must be pleased to be growing these. How tall actually are sewertzowii? They look like they're of a reasonable size, but pictures can be deceiving I realise. I've never grown it so have no idea at all.
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Paul, the plant in the picture is a seedling flowering for the first time for me (thanks to Maggy, I think. I expected to wait for 5 more years, but she assured me it can be quicker. And here it is). It's now appr. 20 sm. I hope it will be bigger a bit next season (30-35). The yellow one i have is always appr. 45 sm. As soon as it is in its glory I'll post a picture.
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Sorry for the same pic twice
Oh you can post them as many times you want, regarding myself i do not get tired of admiring them over and over again. :D
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Agh! I found out what was eating my Fritillaria meleagris
I put the lily beetle on a daffodil leaf for the photograph, and then squashed it.
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I know they're great eaters and I'm Sooo glad we don't have them, but you have to admit, he's very handsome in that smart red colouring. :D
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Agree with you, Lesley, handsome if you don't think of their awful larvae eating everything around. Here the frit season is in full swing. Is the frit marked as fr.messanensis really messanensis?
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Is the frit marked as fr.messanensis really messanensis?
OlegKon - I suspect not. Maybe one of the F. montana complex?
Your frits are really nice. F. drenovskii is one of my favourites - a very elegant plant.
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Some pictures of Fritillaria legionensis form my friend Jose Manuel García.
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Rafa,
Are you aware that these pics make me very nervous?
So different colours!
Gerd
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I add a pic of Fritillaria pyrenaica from yesterday.
May I call it a yellow form?
Gerd
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I add a pic of Fritillaria pyrenaica from yesterday.
May I call it a yellow form?
Gerd, why not? See Rix & Phillips 'The Bulb Book' p. 93
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A lovely yellow Gerd. I'm delighted to see all that colour variation. Is it within a single species or is there some hybridization here. I'd be interested to hear what Ian Y has to say aout these pictures.
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OK, Gerry, thank you (saw the picture). I expected a more golden yellow - this is my constant addiction to perfectionism.
Lesley,
The plant is a result of a hand pollination between 2 nearly yellow plants of pure F. pyrenaica. Only one yellow came up, the rest was dark or only somewhat lighter than typical plants.
Gerd
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Thanks Gerd. I was getting the posts mixed up and it was really Rafa's pics with the wild frits I wondered about. In the final pic, is that a hybrid swarm or just natural variation within a species?
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:o - Rafa, great pics - thanks for sharing them. So variable can be one species? :o
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Some pictures of Fritillaria legionensis form my friend Jose Manuel García.
Great pictures as always Rafa and a very interesting looking population. Are you sure we are looking at only one species?
Pictures 3 and 4 look to me a bit like F. pyrenaica so could we be seeing Fritillaria legionensis and pyrenaica and a series of intermediates?
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Yes Ian, it is possible, certenly there are Frits with last leave divided and bigger in size (corresponding to F. legionensis) and also some others really different. Maybe they could produce hybrids?
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Frit season is still on. Here are some flowering today
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From the previous posts, will someone please tell me about Frit. legionensis? I've never heard of it and can't find any reference. But Ian and Rafa, you both seem to know it as an old friend.
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F. legionensis is an endemic species from Picos de Europa region (between León and Asturias province, in Spain).
It is bigger than F. pyrenaica and the last leaf before the flower is divided (verticiliada in spanish :)) like a snake tongue.
Last year I donated seeds to SRGC, exchange and gift to many people and I hope to send this year also to our seed list.
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Thank you Rafa. I wonder why it isn't mentioned in The Gardener's Guide to Growing Fritillaries?" That book is REALLY deficient in many areas. Get with it Martyn Rix. ;D
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These photos are not mine so, Maggy, sorry if I only post a link to my little french forum, but I think you could be interested to see wild F. involucrata & F. montana in the south of France ;)
http://plantes-passion.forumactif.fr/les-milieux-naturels-f26/une-journee-dans-les-alpes-maritimes-t1851.htm#21054
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I wonder why it isn't mentioned in The Gardener's Guide to Growing Fritillaries?" That book is REALLY deficient in many areas.
Lesley, I agree that this book - published in 1997 - is deficient but it appears that F. legionensis was only described in 1983 so it is, perhaps, not surprising that it is not mentioned.
Bio, many thanks for publishing the link to F. involucrata in the wild; they look wonderful. Also nice to see F. montana (tenella) though not the Lily Beetle about to attack it.
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Bio, a most interesting thread in your link... thank you! This is a good reminder to us to check out your forum more often to see what is happening there 8)
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Lesley, I agree that this book - published in 1997 - is deficient but it appears that F. legionensis was only described in 1983 so it is, perhaps, not surprising that it is not mentioned.
That of course explains it though I would have thought 14 years was enough to have caught up with information especially when you're researching for a book. The 1983 date raises another question, why was the frit described only in 1983 when western European species and habitats have been known for centuries? I would guess that F. legionensis was split off from something else very close (botanically and geographically) and that is why it apparently hybridizes so readily with F. pyrenaica. While I'm always a fan for a new frit species, I'm generally of the 'lumper' fraternity so won't be too worried about F. legionensis.
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And F. involucrata too, has the double leaf immediately behind the flower.
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Some pictures from me
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Boyed:
That F. persica is stunning. Here when planted in the autumn the flower the following spring, and then never show up again.
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Magnar,
Fritillaria persica likes warmth in summer to produce flowers. I think if you harvest the bulbs anually and store them in warm place, and give a protection againts winter frosts, it'll do well for you.
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I am told that if you store the bulbs in a box in the greenhouse they will flower the following year. You must ensure however not to expose the bulbs to sunlight or they will scorch.
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Arthur,
It is very wrong to expose the bulbs to the sunlight, as thy will somewhat damaged by it. You just place them in a very warm place rptecting them from sunlight by box, paper, etc the way that there is air circulation around the bulbs
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I am told that if you store the bulbs in a box in the greenhouse they will flower the following year. You must ensure however NOT to expose the bulbs to sunlight or they will scorch.
Boyed
That is what I said - advice given to me by Janis Ruksans during our trip in Iran
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Wow! nice ivory tower you have over there!!! :D
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Nice Fr.persica. Here are some frits flowering today
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More pictures from another population of F. legionensis. Ian, Dr. F. Llamas told us that F. legionensis could not have last leave "verticiliada" if it is a young plant.
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Rafa - it's fascinating to see the variation of F. legionensis in wild populations. Many thanks for posting.
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Rafa, a beautiful but variable species. Thanks
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Certenly is a very variable species, I love the yellow ones!
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Can anyone help identify this frit. I receive it as Fr.minuta which it is certainly not.
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Some more frits today. It's cold and wet here. Only Fr.camschatcensis might be enjoying it
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Hello! At us a greater collection FRITILLARIA. I shall be glad to communicate to you. I wish to show you the Fritillaria. Many plants are grown up from seeds.
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Anastasia
Beautiful photos of beautiful plants. Where did you obtain the seeds?
Arthur
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Beautiful pictures! I love Rhinopetalum group of Fritillaria genus :o
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Today in my garden, I love all of them ;)
Fritillaria pinardii
(http://magnar.aspaker.no/Fritillaria%20pinardii%2008.jpg)
Fritillaria sewerzowii
(http://magnar.aspaker.no/Fritillaria%20sewersowii%2008.jpg)
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Great pictures Magnar !
Our Spring is just over and now your pix make it start all over again.... ;D
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Spring in North Norway is late this year. Both April and May have been colder than what we have had the later years
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I shall show still photo Fritillaria from our garden :)
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Beautiful pix Anastasia ! Wonderfully good looking plants ! :o
Thanks for extending our Spring feeling ! :D
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A few more from North Norway:
Fritillaria eduardii
(http://magnar.aspaker.no/Fritillaria%20eduardii%2008.jpg)
Fritillaria collina
(http://magnar.aspaker.no/Fritillaria%20collina%2008.jpg)
Fritillaria crassifolia curdica
(http://magnar.aspaker.no/Fritillaria%20crassifolia%20curdica%2008.jpg)
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Lovely pics Magnar. I just LOVE F. collina. Hope my little ones flower soon.
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Very nice, very nice!
Thomas sent me back on October some Frit latifolia and meleagris seeds, but they did not germinated to me, not a single one. I have watered them and keeped the pots damp over winter, awaiting for spring to come, but they are still dormant. Is there anything else i could do for them?
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Not much Michael, just be patient and wait. If the seed was viable in the first place (and from Thomas there would be no doubt about that), it SHOULD germinate, maybe in your autumn. Keep them cool and shaded through the summer.
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Fritillaria camchatzensis yellow is still in blum due to cold weather
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Oleg, I see by this and by your other posts that your garden is full of flower just now! 8)
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Luckily it is, Maggy. After a week of scornful cold and wet weather when I had to run with scissors to prevent botritis from spreading the garden is recowering. Hardly had it started to recover when we had another blow: returning frosts on June, 8 which damaged (again!) Astilboides and some firns. But still a lot is in flower. Hope to post some more pictures. Thanks.
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Such a lovely form, that soft yellow.
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Last Fritillaries from me this season:
F. carica
(http://magnar.aspaker.no/Fritillaria%20carica%2008.jpg)
F. delavayi
(http://magnar.aspaker.no/Fritillaria%20delavayi%2008.jpg)
F. lixianensis
(http://magnar.aspaker.no/Fritillaria%20lixinaensis%2008.jpg)
F. maximovichii
(http://magnar.aspaker.no/Fritillaria%20maximovichii%2008.jpg)
F. roylei
(http://magnar.aspaker.no/Fritillaria%20roylei%2008.jpg)
F. unibracteata
(http://magnar.aspaker.no/Fritillaria%20unibracteata%2008.jpg)
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Fantastic pictures, Magnar. I have never seen ##2,3,5,6. Is the first one really carica? I have ever thought it should be yellow
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Nice to see such a lovely selection of frits now that ours are all over.
I suspect the first one is not F. carica but F. crassifolia and you have just made a slip when writing the caption like I so often do.
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Nice to see such a lovely selection of frits now that ours are all over.
I suspect the first one is not F. carica but F. crassifolia and you have just made a slip when writing the caption like I so often do.
I've been wondering about that myself too. I bought the bulbs some years ago, and and they were labelled carica, but I guess I shall have to change that label. Can't remember now where they came from.
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Thanks Magnar for giving us such a long season for fritillarias. We in the southern hemisphere never see the Chinese species so they have been a real treat.
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Well, I said those pics would be the last ones this year of Fritillaria, but I have to show you this one of F. purdyi from yesterday.
(http://magnar.aspaker.no/Fritillaria%20purdyi%2008.jpg)
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Well, I said those pics would be the last ones this year of Fritillaria, but I have to show you this one of F. purdyi from yesterday.
And very nice it is, too, Magnar. One of the most shiny flowers!
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Great show Magnar !
Wonderful photography too (as always) ! :o
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Would someone please give an identification for this fritillaria which I bought 15 years ago from Potterton and Martin (as it was then), as F. sibthorpiana, which it isn't. (see page 1 of this thread and below, my own sibthorpiana which has a single basal leaf wrapped around the stem and only one other leaf half way up the stem.
Going from Pratt and Jefferson-Brown's book, the only species it could be is F. euboeica. It has two broad basal leaves, a leaf half way up the stem, very erect and with a twist, and an upright leaf at the back of the flower. The inside of the flower has green nectaries and as can be seen in these pics, the yellow colour is veined with green.
However, far from the "glorious" bright yellow of P and J-B, the flower is greenish yellow, and the stigma is not divided distinctly into three, but is made up of 3 compact pinhead-sized knobs, very close together. In one pic the flower appears to be double but isn't, it is just two flowers which have fused together to make one, an aberration. There are two sets of sigma/anthers and two leaves at the back of the fused flowers.
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my own sibthorpiana which has a single basal leaf wrapped around the stem and only one other leaf half way up the stem.
What a beauty it is!
johnw
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Lesley
From what you are showing I think your frit is carica.
Fritillaria carica is very variable and from the plants I grow seems to merge with F. pinardii.
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Lesley - I'm inclined to agree with Ian, F. carica. Your pics & description agree quite well with Rix's description in Flora of Turkey.
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Thank you Ian and Gerry, I'll go with that then, though the flower stems DO have a topknot leaf where P and J-B say not. However, I've found that book to be quite inconsistent in a number of areas. I'd prefer to trust you both, than them in fact.
My other carica is this one so you can see why I didn't recognise one from the other. :)
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Lesley, since the stem with the topknot is the stem with the fused flowers, I would suggest that this too was an aberration. :o
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You could well be right Maggi. It hasn't flowered for about 4 years so I don't remember what happened last time. I'll keep a better watch for next time, hopefully before 2012!
If it's carica, it might be worth cross-pollinating with the other little one. Hope springs eternal as the poet says.
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A little tickling action with the brush in hopes of pollination with the other couldn't hurt, anyway ::)
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Thank you Ian and Gerry, I'll go with that then, though the flower stems DO have a topknot leaf where P and J-B say not. However, I've found that book to be quite inconsistent in a number of areas. I'd prefer to trust you both, than them in fact.
My other carica is this one so you can see why I didn't recognise one from the other. :)
Hi Lesley,
is this the F. carica you tried to post to the September in SH thread? Also grown from seed from MH?
cheers
fermi
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Yes Fermi. it is. I must get back to do something about that. Not enough hours, in spite of daylight saving. :'(