Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

General Subjects => Flowers and Foliage Now => Topic started by: johnw on April 16, 2016, 09:28:42 PM

Title: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnw on April 16, 2016, 09:28:42 PM
A smattering of 2016 Podo seedlings in photo #1, followed by a few early expanded leaves on older ones and emerging shoots here on a cold but sunny day.   The best time of year!

johnw
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnw on April 16, 2016, 09:32:56 PM
I could easily sit and watch these expand the day long.  A few more:

johnw
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: ashley on April 16, 2016, 09:57:59 PM
A great selection John.  Yes they're fascinating to watch emerging; primaeval x 1970s special effects 8)
What's the second last one with the furry buds?

Seedlings here are at a similar stage.  They were potted on last year en masse but should probably be separated now.
 
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnw on April 16, 2016, 11:03:49 PM
Ashley

Funny you should mention it as I was thinking as I was photographing that 4 & 5 remind me of those kitsch horror movies with V. Price that we'd go to see in the 60's.

Second last is P. mairei ex Green Mile, the furry buds are not a consistent feature of mairei sorry to say.

Of note I was at a friend's garden this afternoon and she was lamenting that her P. versipelle got hit by a hard freeze two or more weeks ago, -7/8c when it was up 3 inches.   With some fancy footwork Ken got to the shoots and found the brown was a shoot sheath and the leaves were thoroughly unscathed.  I suspect P. aurantiocaule and P. delavayi might not be quite so accomodating.

johnw
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Gabriela on April 17, 2016, 02:31:02 AM
A smattering of 2016 Podo seedlings in photo #1, followed by a few early expanded leaves on older ones and emerging shoots here on a cold but sunny day.   The best time of year!
johnw

Fantastic collection John! You are so right - best time of the year here! Only new peony leaves will put me in the same trance.
My seedlings are slow, I started them late, but I saw a first tiny true leaf on P. delavayi - thanks a million! I will take a picture tomorrow.
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Leena on April 17, 2016, 07:46:55 AM
Great leaves! Here Podophyllum are not yet up (which is good), but I'm waiting for the ones that germinated last year from seeds I got from ashley to come up. :)
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Cfred72 on April 17, 2016, 07:57:34 AM
Very nice specimen, Johnw. In my garden there are only 'Spotty Dotty'. I think buy others if I find at fairs plants.  I made several pictures within days. I thought I was the only one to be fascinated by this show.

[attach=1] [attach=2] [attach=3]
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: P. Kohn on April 17, 2016, 08:47:00 AM
Our plants in Sheffield are not yet through (either in the ground or last year's seedlings in pots) and nor have seeds germinated yet. Last year seeds germinated on April 12th so a little anxiety has been fomented.
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Carolyn on April 17, 2016, 09:28:21 AM
Our plants in Sheffield are not yet through (either in the ground or last year's seedlings in pots) and nor have seeds germinated yet. Last year seeds germinated on April 12th so a little anxiety has been fomented.
Neither are mine here in SW Scotland. I hope the prolonged winter wet has not caused a problem.
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnw on April 17, 2016, 01:45:27 PM
It does seem odd that Podos would not yet be up in Scotland or England.  Our winters are certainly colder than years but this year there's been no frost in the ground, snows lasted but a few days, rains very heavy indeed and yet frosts have been persistent even till now.  We just need a few days around 10-15c but they're elusive, so in short our soils are very cold yet the Podos are up about 3" / 8cm though just in southernly-exposed beds.  We've even saw tiny seedlings up.  Trusting all be well with yours.

johnw
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Carolyn on April 17, 2016, 05:40:10 PM
The strange thing is that Ian Young reported new shoots on a podophyllum in January, in cold Aberdeen.
I will let you all know if and when mine appear.
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Tony Willis on April 17, 2016, 05:43:15 PM
Mine are all through in NW England and Spotty Dotty has it's leaves expanded. Some are just showing and others three inches high.
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Gabriela on April 18, 2016, 01:53:50 AM
Here they are, miniature Podo leaves - P. delavayi, seeds from John  :)
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Carlo on April 18, 2016, 04:21:07 PM
It's hard NOT to want to add these to your garden....
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Maggi Young on April 18, 2016, 04:27:47 PM
So true, Carlo - I find them irresistible for sure. Mind you, the list of my weaknesses is a long one, I must admit!
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Carlo on April 18, 2016, 04:34:12 PM
Apparently we suffer from the same malady...(and I know we're not alone...).
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnralphcarpenter on April 24, 2016, 02:19:45 PM
Something reptilian emerging from the ground...
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: P. Kohn on April 24, 2016, 03:09:59 PM
First seed germinated yesterday. Nothing above ground for the parent plant on the allotment nor for last year's seedlings in pots though roots look healthy.
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnw on April 24, 2016, 03:33:02 PM
Great colour on that one Ralph.  Do show us how it progresses.

john
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: WimB on April 24, 2016, 05:02:44 PM
Anyone here growing 'Red Panda'? How does it do?
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnw on April 24, 2016, 08:00:17 PM
Wim - We passsed on 'Red Panda' as Philip MacD.'s hybrids of the same cross are far superior.

john 
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: WimB on April 24, 2016, 09:17:38 PM
Wim - We passsed on 'Red Panda' as Philip MacD.'s hybrids of the same cross are far superior.

john

Oh, pics?? Will probably never be available in Europe  :'(  but still, pics??  ;D
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Maggi Young on April 24, 2016, 10:45:12 PM
 Podophyllum  'Red Panda' was named by Ernie and Marietta O’byrne of Northwest Garden Nursery -
this photo is from an article by Dan Heims for the PHS (http://www.pacifichorticulture.org/articles/podophyllums-the-mayapples-of-asia-and-america-2/ (http://www.pacifichorticulture.org/articles/podophyllums-the-mayapples-of-asia-and-america-2/) )

[attachimg=1]
 'Red Panda'  - uppper left  - others are Dan's Terra Nova hybrids.
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: WimB on April 25, 2016, 07:40:14 AM
Podophyllum  'Red Panda' was named by Ernie and Marietta O’byrne of Northwest Garden Nursery -
this photo is from an article by Dan Heims for the PHS

Thanks Maggi! I had seen that pic, they look great but now I'm curious in Philip's cv's...he does post on the forum now and again, no?
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Maggi Young on April 25, 2016, 10:49:07 AM
He does, Wim - we'll see if John can tempt him out to show photos of his cultivars!
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Brian Ellis on April 25, 2016, 11:54:56 AM
I wonder how many times one needs to cross P. delavayi and P. pleianthum to get a Red Panda?
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnw on April 25, 2016, 02:23:26 PM
I wonder how many times one needs to cross P. delavayi and P. pleianthum to get a Red Panda?

Brian - I don't think it matters which you use with delavayi, pleianthum or versipelle.  What does matter is how great the delavayi is and we used Philip's best in our cross.  As you see in the frame - left - hohums, mid 50% are pretty good (best is mid-upper-right), right some delavayis.  Colours are much better in full sun and these are in a fair amount of shade..

Somewhere in iPhoto I have a pic of Philip's best of this cross but where is the question.

johnw
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Carlo on April 25, 2016, 03:58:39 PM
Now I really need to get them all! Take a peek at the article Maggi referenced. Good information from Dan and more great photographs!
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Brian Ellis on April 25, 2016, 06:08:10 PM
Brian - I don't think it matters which you use with delavayi, pleianthum or versipelle.  What does matter is how great the delavayi is ...

Will get the paintbrush out to N due course :)
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Gabriela on April 25, 2016, 08:57:26 PM
Brian - I don't think it matters which you use with delavayi, pleianthum or versipelle.  What does matter is how great the delavayi is and we used Philip's best in our cross.  As you see in the frame - left - hohums, mid 50% are pretty good (best is mid-upper-right), right some delavayis.  Colours are much better in full sun and these are in a fair amount of shade..
Somewhere in iPhoto I have a pic of Philip's best of this cross but where is the question.
johnw

Wow  :o I wouldn't mind even the 'hohums' (I assume 'bad' ones, I don't really know this word).
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: arilnut on April 26, 2016, 03:24:38 AM
Gabriela.  "hohum"- ordinary, nothing special.

John
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnw on April 27, 2016, 08:43:18 PM
Given one's using a very good delavayi as mother I think the cross delavayi x mairei will give some nicely marked plants.

Just a baby here.

johnw
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Philip MacDougall on May 02, 2016, 10:04:42 AM
John, a seedling of P. marie you gave to me. I was a skeptic about it being a separate species but seeing it bloom it looks distinct
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Philip MacDougall on May 02, 2016, 10:23:33 AM
I'll try that again.
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Philip MacDougall on May 02, 2016, 10:28:50 AM
On P. delavayi colours seem variable from year to year but seem to improve as the plants get older, contrary to what Stern's monograph indicates. These 2 got a lot of sun last year, one had a meltdown. Neither are as good this year. 
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Philip MacDougall on May 02, 2016, 10:30:22 AM
And the bed at Far Reaches Farm
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Philip MacDougall on May 02, 2016, 10:35:17 AM
And some goodness from this year, our garden
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Maggi Young on May 02, 2016, 10:41:46 AM
Crikey, Philip, every one a gem!
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnw on May 02, 2016, 02:23:24 PM
Now it wasn't bad enough PMcD was texting me Paris pictures all through the night which meant the Blackberry was dead by 6am & I still wide awake, now these stunners!

Time for those Paris pix here.

johnw
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnw on May 02, 2016, 02:26:45 PM
John, a seedling of P. marie you gave to me. I was a skeptic about it being a separate species but seeing it bloom it looks distinct

re: P. mairei

Thirty years (this year!) and so little faith.... ;)

Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnw on May 02, 2016, 02:37:49 PM
Two selections of our hybrids using PMcD's best delavayi as mother & versipelle as dad.  BTW Philip Ken is getting a good number of your two best delavayi propagated by root cuttings, that is to say pre 'Down for Brown' and 'Red Hot Mama' delavayis.

What will be useful are the really late emerging delavayis here.  Just lucky this year with such an early spring and then more than a few unexpected April frosts that the delavayis hadn't emerged, there was however a lot of carting pots of them in and out every day.

john
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: fleurbleue on May 02, 2016, 03:00:17 PM
Amazing shapes and colours ! Nice to look at them ;)
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnw on May 02, 2016, 06:59:58 PM
The same E5-#1 yesterday.  Lots of cold sun but maybe better if it had had warm sun.

john
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: WimB on May 02, 2016, 07:53:02 PM
WOW Philip, those look great!!
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Brian Ellis on May 03, 2016, 09:35:02 AM
My goodness Philip and John, don't do this to me!  Love that 'Red Hot Mess' and 'E5-#1' but all of them are stunning.  I shall have to go and have a lie down :o
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnralphcarpenter on May 05, 2016, 02:40:58 PM
Great colour on that one Ralph.  Do show us how it progresses.

john
Here it is now, somewhat eaten and less attractive! Any idea as to species?
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnralphcarpenter on May 05, 2016, 02:42:25 PM
Podophyllum peltatum emerging.
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Gabriela on May 07, 2016, 08:45:15 PM
Went looking for P. peltatum that may keep a darker colour later, after the leaves expand. A bit early to say but found what looks to be an interesting 'chimera' specimen. It is the beginning of Trillium flowering in Ontario.
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: ashley on May 07, 2016, 08:52:55 PM
Lovely to see these peltatum in the wild Gabriela, and T. grandiflorum too 8)
Are those taller plants with pleated leaves Diosporum or something else?
Such a beautiful time of year.
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnw on May 07, 2016, 09:48:22 PM
Lovely to see these peltatum in the wild Gabriela

And one that's best left in the wild Ashley as it is sheer hell in a garden, impossible to eradicate.  Worse than that it harbours mayapple rust which will obliterate the Asian species. 

Here it is in a nearby county along with 3 other pests that are over-taking this old garden, violets, Berberis vulgaris and norway maple..

john - +11c & overcast
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: ashley on May 07, 2016, 09:58:18 PM
Ah.  I was just about to release a batch of plants from pots after they had finished flowering :-X
Maybe in an area where spread can be curtailed, and well away from other spp.?
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Gabriela on May 08, 2016, 03:04:04 AM
Lovely to see these peltatum in the wild Gabriela, and T. grandiflorum too 8)
Are those taller plants with pleated leaves Diosporum or something else?
Such a beautiful time of year.


The graceful plant is Maianthemum racemosum Ashley. I took the pictures in a particular wooded area with a rich species association, unfortunately not often seen.
If it could only be May forever... :)
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Gabriela on May 08, 2016, 03:06:55 AM
And one that's best left in the wild Ashley as it is sheer hell in a garden, impossible to eradicate.  Worse than that it harbours mayapple rust which will obliterate the Asian species. 
Here it is in a nearby county along with 3 other pests that are over-taking this old garden, violets, Berberis vulgaris and norway maple..
john - +11c & overcast

John – with all due respect, to put P. peltatum on the same ‘weed list’ with the Norway maple it is absolutely ridiculous and I’ll say no more for now…One picture from an old garden doesn’t say all about a species.

Planted on a dry- side location the mayapple is manageable and since it will expand mostly vegetatively (lucky if you’ll get fruits) it can be easily allocated its own space (combined with other woodland species works fine).

The rust I can’t comment much, that’s a different problem anyway. I never found plants with it in this part of Ontario but it would surely spread to the Asian mayapples.

Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: greenspan on May 11, 2016, 03:32:56 PM
Here it is now, somewhat eaten and less attractive! Any idea as to species?

Podophyllum hexandrum ;)
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnw on May 11, 2016, 03:46:40 PM
Maybe in an area where spread can be curtailed, and well away from other spp.?

Ashley

Is it relly worth the risk? These rusts are impossible to eradicate and at least here come they will if there are any peltatums about.

john
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnw on May 13, 2016, 04:01:45 PM
Despite our very cold springs P. delavayi has a tendency to emerge too early, with little frost tolerance it can get clobbered by the late frosts that seem to be a routine event away from the immediate Atlantic coastline.  So this delavayi D16 looks very promising as it is just emerging this week - a month later than others, given the stronger sun the foliage is particularly well-coloured. One of the great things sbout growing from seed is that sometimes nature can give you just what you need.

john
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnralphcarpenter on May 16, 2016, 11:56:06 AM
Podophyllum hexandrum ;)
Thanks. Here's a leaf - does it look right for P. hexandrum?
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnw on May 16, 2016, 03:53:43 PM
Rest at ease, not P. peltatum but looks right for P. hexandrum (emodi) Ralph.  Here are ours and yours may well change shape as it matures.

john
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Regelian on May 16, 2016, 06:01:58 PM
Well, I'm getting the fever!  I ordered 2 hexandrums, Spotty Dotty and, maybe a mistake, peltatum (all I could find).  SD is beautiful, of course.  Does anyone know if this hybrid is fertile and what the parents were?  As it is producing flowers, I may know soon enough.  Are podo-sinopodos self-fertile, or on the fussy side?  Ralph, John, anyone?

cheers,
j.
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnw on May 16, 2016, 07:38:29 PM
Jamie  - Spotty Dotty does not produce seed here but its pollen may be ok.  Avent says it's a delavayi hybrid and a few other brave souls mention difforme as the other parent but I think that's sheer conjecture.  Robin could surely tell us more.

The other species require pollination from another clone or species to set seed, the pollen can be reluctant to release from the anthers but it can be teased out with a toothpick or scalpel.  Can't say anything about peltatum but there is a hybrid of it with hexandrum I think, don't know if it too is a carrier of rust.

There seems to be an obscene number of flowers coming this year so I reckon seed set will be excellent.

johnw 
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Regelian on May 16, 2016, 10:23:29 PM
John,
thanks for the infos.  I'll attempt some crosses with Spotty Dotty, as who knows.  Beginners luck, maybe.  Do you know if the seed stores well, or does it prefer immediate planting. I need to keep my eyes out for some, as well as other clones.

I took two shots, today.
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnw on May 17, 2016, 12:25:09 AM
Who knows, indeed but do use SD's pollen.

Send me a PM in September and I'll send you some seed.  We collect just before the seed pods drop, clean - a horribl;e slimey job, place in ziplock bags in damp live sphagnum moss and store in the refrigerator for 3 months, then sow.  You could plant right away, keep the soil evenly moist outdoors and let them emerge on spring.

john
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Regelian on May 17, 2016, 07:17:58 PM
Thanks for the offer, John.  I'll report back on the pollination attempts.

cheers,
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: P. Kohn on May 18, 2016, 01:30:40 PM
Big sheets of P. peltatatum in flower in the Botanic Gardens bit P. hexandrum only just emerging. I guess the separation of P. hexandrum as Sinopodophyllum hexandrum makes sense ?
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Philip Walker on May 19, 2016, 12:21:47 PM
Podophyllum hexandrum-sown December 2010
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnw on May 31, 2016, 10:40:34 PM
Now here's a puzzle and I cannot say I've ever seen this phenomenom to date.  This Podo - pleianthum or versipelle or a hybrid between the two - surfaced normally and with a good deal of vigour this spring.  The leaf was extremely thickened, almost like a tetraploid.  However it failed to expand, started to turn black and then was engulfed in the horrible brown-black streaking.  Nevertheless it bravely tried to open its flowers.  Binned.

Initially I suspected virus and it may well be that.  We also get the odd plant that has yellow segments in the leaves and we've been tossing them too, I suppose all not surprising given the numbers we grow.  Anyone with experience in these matters?

johnw
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: Regelian on June 01, 2016, 07:59:35 AM
That reminds me of Fusarium or Botrytis, which I occaisionally see in other plants during the wet Spring, especially when we have sudden warm spells.

Thanks for sharing the fotos!  As I am aquiring as many Podos as I can find at the moment........ forewarned.

j.
Title: Re: Podophyllum 2016
Post by: johnw on June 01, 2016, 03:01:59 PM
Jamie  - Thanks.  Our springs are usually wet, foggy and damp so with only one plant so affected it must not be a common problem.  The green bin was the right place for it.  The thickening of the leaves is rather odd though.

john
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal