Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: ChrisB on February 23, 2008, 09:37:43 PM
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I went to visit Howick Gardens (Northumberland) today and found several snowdrops that looked a bit different. They reckon they have 200+ different ones there, species etc, but they all looked like little white flowers with bits of green on them to me ;D.
However, I wondered about these ones. First, one that had four sepals rather than the usual three, a double that had five sepals and two that looked like a different species. Also one view in the gardens. It was a wonderful day for it too!
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Sorry should have turned the photos before I posted mea culpa....
Here they are without having to crick your neck:
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By heck! After all this chat tonight about G. Flocon de Neige selling for £266 on ebay... here's Chris showing us a six petalled double from Howick.... presumably from a clump..... shock horror!! ::) :o ??? 8)
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Maggi
Are you wearing your specs - I can only see five
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yes, Arthur, got the specs on, can't even see the monitor BOX with out them!!.... look to the petal with its point nearest the tip of Chris' ring finger... just below it there is another petal, lying more flat to the inners...can you see?
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On second look, with pic enlarged, I see that it has some green on, but I think it is more of an outside petal with green than and inside one sticking out, if you know what I mean! :P :-\ :-X
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I'd give it five and a half - have lots like that in the garden that I thought might be 'Hill Poe'
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Who said "Oil give it foive?"
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Who said "Oil give it foive?"
Maureen somebody, on Juke Box Jury.. wasn't she was one of the first "real" people to be included in a TV programme panel ?
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No, Maureen isn't right.... have googled Juke Box Jury... she was called Janice Nicholls .... sounded just like dear Vic Aspland 8), as I recall, though I would think that that is as far as the similarity goes ::)
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And no relation
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And no relation
No, but she would be of an age to be your sister :-X but her accent could never come from Kent :D
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Maggi
I was born in a castle in Derbyshire.
Kent is my latest resting place, though hopefully my last as I have found a garden with acid soil (first time), room for 4 greenhouses, a woodland area, a vegetable patch, and a protected woodland shields us from the worst of the winds
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Sounds like you are back to what is really even better than a castle again, now, Arthur :D
You did well to find such a place with the room you need and some shelter to boot.
I'm giving more thought to this castle birthplace.... perhaps I should give you a new nickname of KING Arthur.... ::), though I thought the one you have appropriate .....
and I have to rack my brain to think if I know what a Derbyshire accent might sound like :-\, though you may have been assimilated by the Southerners, Arthur , and pass for a native?
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Maggi
I thought the castle very grand until I discovered 75% of my primary school class had also been born in the castle.
I was a war baby and Willersly Castle (really a grand mansion) was a maternity hospital.
Apart from spending the next 2 years in Cheshire, I am a southerner.
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I thought the castle very grand until I discovered 75% of my primary school class had also been born in the castle.
By jove, you had me worried for a minute there, Arthur...I had visions of abusive aristos excercising droit de seigneur.... thank goodness for a happier explanation ;)
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Interesting responses. I know exactly where those two snowdrops were, in the churchyard, so I guess I'll wait until next year to see if they are there again. The one with the four petals was one only, and a bit taller than the rest around it too, and looked very strong. The double one was just wonderful, should have taken another picture from overhead... not going back to do so though. There were loads of the yellow ones too according to an eagle eyed friend, but I never saw any except in the Earl Grey Tea Rooms ;) where we eventually sat and drank tea and ate home made cake.... If you are in the area, it is a great place to go to see snowdrops, there were absolutely masses of them, we walked for an hour!
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Hi Chris, I find your pictures very interesting can you please have another look at the snowdrops you found and see if Galanthus plicatus are also growing in this area looks like it to me?? cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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Maggi
I thought the castle very grand until I discovered 75% of my primary school class had also been born in the castle.
I was a war baby and Willersly Castle (really a grand mansion) was a maternity hospital.
Apart from spending the next 2 years in Cheshire, I am a southerner.
Ditto. Most of my primary class mates were born in Airthrey Castle, formerly a maternity hospital but now part of Stirling University. ::) Our wedding reception was at Airth Castle, but that was picked up wrong by a (late) friend of my mum. She painted a picture of Airthrey Castle, saying that it would remind us of our wedding day. :)
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RE: Willesley Castle
It is now a grand hotel a few miles up the road from Belper. Willesly Castle Hotel, Cromford.
In the history of the place it states as Arthur says that it had been a Maternity Hospital during the war and that it was used when the Salvation Army Maternity Hospital in Clapton, East London, was closed. Its a small world because I had been born in the Sally Hospital a few years before Arthur.
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Hi Ian,
The G. plicatus was growing at the top of the rockery area, right beside the wall into the agapanthus/kniphophia area, not the church yard. Was the only clump I spotted, definitely no where near the other one with the four sepals or the double.
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Hi again Chris, I still suspect that this is a probable hybrid as bees will fly long distances so a cross pollination would be possible but then the plants have not read any of the books so could just be a variation, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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Hello all,
A peculiar question I know, but has anybody got a picture of Mr Alex Duguid of Edrom nurseries? They do not have one at Edrom and I have this bee in my bonnet to see what he looks like. There is nothing on the internet and I wondered if there was reference in a book somewhere (Not in the Snowdrop monograph). Strange how these things start as a wonder and then assume a 'need to know' status! Still it is raining today :-\
Any pointers to finding him please. If anyone can it will be someone on this forum
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Brian, we have a great many of Alec Duguid's garden books... including his entire collection of AGS Journals, bought at auction after his death. I have an idea of someone who might have a photo... leave it with me......... ???
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I see that Avon Bulbs special list is now on the website. Several that are interesting to me including 'June Boardman' and 'Green Hayes', however, for a description we are referred to the Snowdrop monograph - Is it me being particularly thick I wonder as I can't find either of them? ??? :-\ :-[
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Hello Brian,
thank you for the information of the special list of Avon Bulbs. I have just ordered a few news for me. But I have the same questions like you. And we haven`t the answers here in Germany. I hope Chris Sanham can help???!!! He is the owner of the big list of newer cultivars.
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Brian & Hagen
Here is what I have been able to find out
'June Boardman' is a plicatus selection named by ? Boardman for his wife June. It is possible that, at some point, he acquired some of the Wandlebury Ring yellows & that this is an offspring.
'Green Hayes' - this is another plicatus, named by David Bromley and seems to have originated from South Hayes (Primrose Warburg).
'Art Nouveau' - this was found in the Jardin d'Angelique (at Montmain, Rouen, France), by the owners Monsieur et Madame Bellegard. They had previously found g. nivalis Poculiformis Group 'Angelique' in their garden. It was named by Alan Street of Avon Bulbs.
Hope this helps
Chris
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Thank you Chris.
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Thanks Chris, it seems to confirm my suspicions! Bill Boardman is a Norfolk plantsman who has "The Garden in an Orchard" in the next village to me. His wife June is also a good plantswoman, as is his cousin Peter Boardman (Holly officianodo) and his other cousin, one Cecilia Coller. I'll have to check this but I am sure that there are not too many June Boardman's around!
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Brian, it strikes me that it is very fortunate for AGS exhibitors that there is only one Cecilia Coller, too! 8)
That is one very clever grower. :D
I am still on the trail of a photo of Alec Duguid, by the way!
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Thanks Chris, it seems to confirm my suspicions! Bill Boardman is a Norfolk plantsman who has "The Garden in an Orchard" in the next village to me. His wife June is also a good plantswoman, as is his cousin Peter Boardman (Holly officianodo) and his other cousin, one Cecilia Coller. I'll have to check this but I am sure that there are not too many June Boardman's around!
Brian - seems most likely - perhaps you could let me know when you have had a chance to do a bit of sleuthing, so that I can update my Database - thanks
Chris
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A very clever family all round I think Maggi. Their Grandfather was a well known architect in Norwich and both Bill (and June) and Peter have beautiful gardens with many interesting plants. I shall have to get round to uploading some photos!! Bill is also on the RHS Floral Trials Committee amongst other things.
Chris I will report back in due course.
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BTW Chris have you got any background on Galanthus Little Dorrit and G.St Pancras please?
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BTW Chris have you got any background on Galanthus Little Dorrit and G.St Pancras please?
'Little Dorrit' is on page 254 of the 1st edition of 'Snowdrops' book & 'St Pancras' is on page 305
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Chris always has the answer when it comes to snowdrops. I know from many, many offline queries how helpful and extremely generous he is.
However, he does have the fault of keeping his light under the bucket, so to speak. Chris has failed to tell forum users that his collection of galanthus has been given "National Collection" status by the National Council for the Conservation of Plants and Gardens.
I should explain to anyone not familiar with the NCCPG National Collection scheme that, while it is a great honour to the recipient, a recognition of the recipient's ability to organise and manage a collection to an extraordinarily high standard, that it is also in the view of the NCCPG a placing of great trust on the individual to care for what is rightly regarded as part of the country's heritage, in this case its plant heritage.
My heartiest congratulations and best wishes to Chris and I'm sure all will join me in congratulating Chris on this achievement.
Paddy
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Yes, indeed, Paddy, warm congratulations to Chris and thanks to you Paddy for keeping us up to date with this news.
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Congratulations Chris, well done.
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'Little Dorrit' is on page 254 of the 1st edition of 'Snowdrops' book & 'St Pancras' is on page 305
Thanks Chris, senior moment set in!
Many congratulations on achieving National Collection Status for your snowdrops, well done.
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Here in Germany, we haven`t a hotline for good informations from GB (but we have srgc). Second thanks for Paddy for informations, but at first congratulations for Chris. It`s good to know his fine source of informations. (Hope he will show us a lot of pics from his collection) ;)
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Hagen,
I think Chris will have to be encouraged rather strongly to purchase a camera and, of course, then to use it.
Paddy
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Chris et al, although I had planned to see Bill Boardman next weekend, I did the next best thing and saw Richard Hobbs tonight. I asked him what he knew about it and this is what he said. Some years ago Bill Boardman bought some Galanthus Atkinsii bulbs and was surprised to find that the seedlings were all yellows. He selected the best and named it after his wife June. He approached Richard and asked who the best person would be to pass it to for circulation and Richard suggested Alan Street. So it was not from Wendlebury Ring but from Bergh Apton in Norfolk. I will double check this with Bill in due course as the bulb I got was labelled as coming from Cambridgeshire.
I have visited Bill and June this afternoon, it is indeed from their Norfolk garden and is a plicatus seedling. Vigorous in growth, Bill rates it above G. 'Wendy's Gold' - well he would, wouldn't he!!
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I may have asked about this before but if I did I have forgotten the answer.
Can anyone figure out the name on this Galanthus label at John Grimshaw's? Natalie G......?
This may be a shot of the flower and cannot tell much from it.
Ringing any bells?
johnw
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Sorry, John, no help to you. Try Chris Sanham.
Paddy
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John - this is G.elwesii 'Natalie Garton' (also circulating erroneously as 'Natalie Garten').
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Many thanks Chris. I can't recall taking a close look at it, does it have any particular attributes to deserve a name?
johnw
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I remember it as being a very nice form and a welcome addition to the collection - I can do no better than to echo what Janet Lecore says on her website (http://www.judyssnowdrops.co.uk/Plant_Profiles/Elwesii/natalie_garton/natalie_garton.htm) viz "A later flowering snowdrop with generous flowers, which have a bold inner mark"
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At Cerney last February I took this shot of Oliver Wyatt. The book says Oliver Wyatt is an invalid name and is in fact 'Maidwell L.' My 'Maidwell L.' came from Germany and originally from P&M in 1990. My shot of 'Maidwell L.' shows it on its last legs, however the inner markings on mine matches Mark Smyth's picture previously posted. Any idea what this "Oliver Wyatt" might be.
There is an "Oliver Wyatt's Green" which is yet another puzzle involving Mr. Wyatt and I can find no reference to it either.
johnw
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John, I don't know what the snowdrop at South Cerney labelled as 'Oliver Wyatt' is - the marking is wrong for 'Maidwell L', but the marking on your close-up of your 'Maidwell L' looks exactly right.
You'll find a write-up about 'Oliver Wyatt's Green' on page 149 of the snowdrop book under plicatus cultivars. It's a plicatus that Oliver Wyatt gave to my dad and which was illustrated in an RHS Journal article by Wyatt in 1967, incorrectly captioned as 'Warham'. As it's obvously not 'Warham', my dad (as the only person who had kept bulbs of this snowdrop going) agreed to the new name of 'Oliver Wyatt's Green', a shortened version of how he'd always labelled the snowdrop - "Oliver Wyatt's Green Inner Plicatus", which was too long to suit the international code on naming cultivated plants. I use 'OWG' for short 'cos I'm that lazy.
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John, I don't know what the snowdrop at South Cerney labelled as 'Oliver Wyatt' is - the marking is wrong for 'Maidwell L', but the marking on your close-up of your 'Maidwell L' looks exactly right.
You'll find a write-up about 'Oliver Wyatt's Green' on page 149 of the snowdrop book under plicatus cultivars. It's a plicatus that Oliver Wyatt gave to my dad and which was illustrated in an RHS Journal article by Wyatt in 1967, incorrectly captioned as 'Warham'. As it's obvously not 'Warham', my dad (as the only person who had kept bulbs of this snowdrop going) agreed to the new name of 'Oliver Wyatt's Green', a shortened version of how he'd always labelled the snowdrop - "Oliver Wyatt's Green Inner Plicatus", which was too long to suit the international code on naming cultivated plants. I use 'OWG' for short 'cos I'm that lazy.
Martin - The marking on that Cerney 'OW' is certainly very distinctive, looks like an inverted molar extraction.
Nice to learn a bit more about Oliver Wyatt's Green and indeed I had found that one in the book. The one I was looking for was another 'Oliver Wyatt's ....' whose name I forget at the moment. An ideas what it may have been?
Quite out of it with some bug, exploding compost didn't help much.
johnw
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.....exploding compost didn't help much.
:o ??? :-\
Do tell. ;D
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.....exploding compost didn't help much.
:o ??? :-\
Do tell. ;D
This was John sterilising compost in a plastic bag in the microwave.
Paddy
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A Bombe Surprise then?
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Hello,
I'm having a tree stump ground out that has snowdrops underneath it. Will they be OK to move now? I do hope so as I haven't much choice in the matter (Honey fungus!!!!)
Many thanks
Jane
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No not now. They are well rooted now and need their roots to rehydrate the bulbs and initiate flower growth.
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If they are dug up carefully with any roots intact and immediately replanted or potted then they should be fine. Given that they're around the base of a tree where the soil is probably pretty dry, the roots may not have grown too much. Anyway, if it's a choice between lifting or leaving to be squished by the stump grinder then there's nothing to lose. But they should be fine if you take care to get them out with any roots reasonably intact.
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I'm with Martin, lift them....gently..... and I'm sure all will be well. Good luck Jane!
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Mark - I happened upon your picture of 'John Long' from last spring on the Forum. The inner marking looks remarkably similar to the above mis-labelled 'Oliver Wyatt'
('Maidwell L.') at Cerney that I posted on the 8th of September. What do you think?
johnw
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John I haven't been paying attention on this post.
This is plicatus 'John Long'. 'Maidwell L' is an elwesii.
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I just searched my hard drive for elwesii and dont have a photo that matched the one you have shown
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Mark - I was comparing John Long and the mis-labelled Oliver Wyatt (an elwesii), not with Maidwell L.
My error was I looked up Long John in the book and couldn't find it so thought it might be an elwesii too. Now realize it is John Long, a plicatus.
Thanks for straightening me out.
johnw