Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Cfred72 on March 05, 2016, 11:34:14 AM
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I did my first purchases of Erythronium in autumn 2015 (Except Erythronium 'Pagoda'). The early warning signs of démarage in the garden.
[attach=1]
Erythronium dens-canis 'Lilac Wonder'
[attach=2]
Erythronium dens-canis 'Frans Hals'
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Erythronium caucasicum
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1493/25105201594_17f86742ff_o.jpg)
Erythroniun californicum -A form with markings similar to "White Beauty"
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1566/25709576106_2f85b247c2_o.jpg)
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Looks like art!
First flowering of Erythronium multiscapoideum with me. Seeds sown 21 September 2013.
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You don't have to wait very long for E. multiscapideum to flower from seed. All the other species take at least another year.
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I bought half a dozen Erythroniums last Autumn and none of them showing yet (all my others are above the soil), am I worrying too early?
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I bought half a dozen Erythroniums last Autumn and none of them showing yet (all my others are above the soil), am I worrying too early?
At home, some are in bloom, others have not pointed their noses through the ground ...
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At home, some are in bloom, others have not pointed their noses through the ground ...
Much the same here David, panic not ;)
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When I say are blooming .... Rather will be in bloom.
[attach=1]
Erythronium dens-canis 'Frans Hals'
[attach=2]
Erythronium dens-canis 'Lilac Wonder'
[attach=3]
Erythronium dens-canis 'Snowflake'
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Question: Is it normal that the flower buds are plated on the floor? Is it because it's the first year and they are still well placed deep level? Or the stem will grow along with the flower will open?
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The stems should continue to grow as the flower opens.
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I bought half a dozen Erythroniums last Autumn and none of them showing yet (all my others are above the soil), am I worrying too early?
David,
Same here - my established clumps of E. Dens canis are in full flower, but my new dens canis (which spent the winter in long tom pots while I decide where to plant them) have only just appeared in the last couple of days. I splashed out on one plant of E caucasicum which has not yet appeared, so I know how you feel!
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Erythronium howellii
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1566/25930338136_bb59c0d3b6_o.jpg)
Erythronium albidum
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1520/25323543594_056c2e300c_o.jpg)
Erythronium dens-canis
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1516/25835442342_9040129af0_o.jpg)
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I was surprised to read a comment the other day that all the commercially available Erythronium dens-canis cultivars are shy flowering. Have others found this to be the case?
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David,
Same here - my established clumps of E. Dens canis are in full flower, but my new dens canis (which spent the winter in long tom pots while I decide where to plant them) have only just appeared in the last couple of days. I splashed out on one plant of E caucasicum which has not yet appeared, so I know how you feel!
Sorry not to have replied earlier Carolyn but have been away from home since Sunday. A couple of hours today were spent 'hammering' the kid's inheritance (yet again!) at Ashwood Nursery and, as a result I shall have one Erythronium in flower tomorrow as well as some Hepaticas which, my having followed my normal procedure, I shall kill in the next few weeks!
When I left the garden early on Sunday morning I had no Erythroniums at all in flower.
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Hard to believe that spring is further advanced here on the Solway coast than it is in Devon. We have had some lovely mild, sunny days in the last couple of weeks. In fact my waterbutt at the greenhouse has just run dry, we need some rain.
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I bought some E. dens canis few years ago and they have never flowered :(
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Oh dear - I hadn't realised that was a problem with dens-canis.
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I have always found E. dens-canis difficult to flower in pots. Nowadays I put them out in the garden, where you don't notice them until suddenly one bulb or a pot of seedlings has bulked up to form a clump which flower well. Usually that seems to be a sign to dig them up and split them up - if I don't they often then dwindle and disappear; of course if I do I'm back to waiting again. But then gardens in Southern England are probably not an ideal habitat for it.
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My first of the season (even White Beauty isn't out yet) Erythronium 'Knightshayes Pink'
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Erythronium tuolumnense 'Sundisc'
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I planted out some Erythronium revolutum last year. I wonder if the flowers will ever open properly. This cold damp weather is forecast to continue for the rest of this week.
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We visited Knighshayes today and the Erythronium revolutum were absolutely stunning. Will try to post some pics in the 'Places to Visit' thread later today or tomorrow.
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I was surprised to read a comment the other day that all the commercially available Erythronium dens-canis cultivars are shy flowering. Have others found this to be the case?
I don't know about all Maggi, but quite a few seem to be. Just as well the leaves are attractive. My general experience is quite similar to Hepatica in the garden actually (for which see another thread) - they increase slowly, flower sparingly and some clones will fizzle out entirely. Perhaps seed raised is the answer.
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I planted out some Erythronium revolutum last year. I wonder if the flowers will ever open properly.
My observation is that the degree to which the tepals of Erythronium flowers open is at least in part a function of temperature and relative humidity. There is a nice accessible population of Erythronium revolutum in the coastal mountains not too far from here. The site is basically in temperate rain forest; annual precipitation is 80 to 100 inches. Since dry days are uncommon in early spring, usually when I visit the E. revolutum flowers are quite droopy. I've attached 2 photos from this site, the first taken on a rainy day in 2014, and the second taken this year on a dry day, when there had been no rain for nearly a week. So at least some of the time the flowers at this site open nicely!
This feature probably varies with different species as well, and perhaps for different populations within a species.
Ed
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I planted out some Erythronium revolutum last year. I wonder if the flowers will ever open properly. This cold damp weather is forecast to continue for the rest of this week.
Looks like a good form too Roma, nice leaf markings. Is this the first time they've flowered?
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Erythronium tuolumnense
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1615/26230061042_06347594c0_o_d.jpg)
Erythronium oregonum
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1610/26296519136_9ce07a924b_o_d.jpg)
Erythronium hendersonii
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1547/26256229761_393bb2aeb5_o_d.jpg)
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I planted one Erythronium about ten years ago in this spot. It has spread ever since but not one flower.
Ideas?
Thanks,
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It might be E. americanum, which spreads in my garden in the same fashion and is shy-flowering.
...Claire
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Claire:
Thanks, I'll have a look at them.
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My brother hiked up Mt Prevost, in the Cowichan Valley, on Vancouver Island, today, to photograph
the low elevation Erythronium grandiflorum.
The front plant in the first photo has two flowers on the stem - something we have never seen
before with this species (though E. oregonum can have half a dozen or more).
I will take some close-up photos later in the week.
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[attachimg=1]
Just coming into flower is Erythronium krylovii one from the Erythronium sibiricum complex.
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That erythronium is a real beauty Ian.
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You sure that is not a tulip?
Ed
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You sure that is not a tulip?
Ed
I am Ed it is not :D
They do turn over quickly as the stems grow.
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Erythronium revolutum Johnsonii Group
I planted out lots of seedlings last year. Some had flowered in the pots . The first picture is of some from AGS seed. I think the others are seedlings from a very nice form I've had as a single bulb for a number of years. I have six groups in different places in the garden so hope they will seed around.
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Erythronium oreganum from the garden today.
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.........together with Erythronium californicum
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They came good in the end David.
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They did John but for some reason were very late and others have yet to flower. Erythroniums in Aberdeen were much earlier than mine.
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Same here and some have not yet appeared above ground.
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Erythronium
japonicum - I believe ;) dens-canis
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Trond I think that is Erythronium dens-canis in your picture
[attachimg=1]
Erythronium japonicum
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Trond I think that is Erythronium dens-canis in your picture
. . .
Thanks Ian. You are quite right of course. I didn't check but thought I remembered ???
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The festival of plants of the Enghien castle in Belgium. I brought a Erythronium Kondo '. The flower is not the prettiest, but I guess it's also because the plant comes from a pot, which ballad fairs and fairs and who has been transplanted to the garden.
When I got the first flower wanted to open.
[attachimg=1]
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Experts can tell me if it is a hybrid of Erythronium californicum x tuolumense as E. 'Pagoda'?
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Erythronium californicum 'Withe Beauty' is in bloom as Magniola, these are bulbs purchased last year in November.
[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3][attach=4]
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Erythronium 'Pagoda' in a week's time rushed to open.
It's really fast one. :D
[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3][attach=4][attach=5]
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Experts can tell me if it is a hybrid of Erythronium californicum x tuolumense as E. 'Pagoda'?
Yes, it is - same as 'Citronella' too.
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Merci Maggi, ;D
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Erythronium dens-canis , a double one which appeared among the others.
... and a white one.
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[attachimg=1]
The Erythronium krylovii I showed a week ago is now in full flower.
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That's a cracker Ian.
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It sure is a cracker, David.
Ian, our season is a month behind yours and this is photo is from May 2015,. We grew it from seed received as E. siberica sent by Olga in Russia.
Do you know where siberica ends and krylovii begins or what distinguishes them?
- Rob
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[attachimg=1]
Erythronium hendersonii
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
Erythronium revolutum
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Based on growth over the last few years I thought that perhaps I had found the ideal place in my garden to grow both Erythronium grandiflorum and montanum. I started with a small bulb of each and this year both produced two flowering shoots. They grow in a well-drained but organic rich acidic raised bed which is shaded by the house in winter but receives sun from mid-February onwards. This seems to keep them cold over Winter but with rapid warming in early Spring. Last year I got seed from my montanum, a plant I have never succeeded with before. This year the shoots came up in both species but I noted some initial leaf damage that I had thought was due to slugs/snails. I used slug pellets and had assumed that the problem was covered. A few days ago I was horrified to note that the flower buds on both species had been badly damaged by something. The damage was extensive and there were no slime trails. Apart from the flower buds the leaves had also been badly nibbled and I noted similar damage on a nice plant of Erythronium Ardovie Bliss. I can find no evidence of any caterpillars. The damage looks nothing like that made by Vine Weevils and I am sure this is not slug/snail damage. I enclose some images of the damaged montanum -does anyone have any suggestions as to what could be doing this?
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1443/25941431844_2c20eff625_z_d.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1616/26480340841_c07a73811c_z_d.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1534/25943487733_5d7d420848_z_d.jpg)
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Leaf cutting bees?
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Ian, our season is a month behind yours and this is photo is from May 2015,. We grew it from seed received as E. siberica sent by Olga in Russia.
Do you know where siberica ends and krylovii begins or what distinguishes them?
- Rob
I think that one paper ( in Russian) states that krylovii only applies to a white form - but others seems to hold that other colours can be involved. From what we have here I can say that krylovii only has plain leaves, while sibiricum can have quite a lot of mottling. And in the coloured forms of krylovii, viewed from above, the central white section in the throat is distinctly visible. In sibiricum there may be a white central area to the throat of the flower but it is never visible from the outside.
I think Ian may illustrate this in the most recent Bulb Log. .......
http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2016Apr201461149617BULB_LOG_1616.pdf (http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2016Apr201461149617BULB_LOG_1616.pdf)
Of course if the paper mention states krylovii is only white then the coloured version needs another name - but I think there is some confusion generally about this - so calling the coloured form krylovii is at least a "shorthand" meantime to distinguish it from sibericum, from which it is clearly different.
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Steve, we have had similar damage in the past and I discovered it was the caterpillar of a moth, it lives underground by day and eats its way through the night and seems especially partial to Erythroniums.
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Climbing cutworms, which are moth caterpillars, are active here all winter. They eat at night,
and hide in leaf litter or just under the soil during the day. In spring they pupate and
metamorphose into moths in summer.
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Thank you Maggi for the full reply and pointing out the Bulb Log for April which I should have seen but missed. E. sibericum is the best and easiest erythronium in our garden. Other species persist but are slow to increase in size or multiply. A hard winter with little snow will kill one and two year seedlings so we depend on several years of good snow cover to get them closer to flowering. Once they start to flower they appear to withstand our climate with no difficulty, not always flowering but at least not dying.
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Anyone here know where I might be able to obtain Erythronium 'Joanna'?
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Many thanks John, Ian & Diane.
The leaf damage is irregular and not typical of leaf-cutter bees. I have checked the plants overnight for the last two nights and have seen no evidence of any caterpillars/cutworms. I placed a ventilated (small holes) polycarbonate cylinder around E. montanum and there has been no further damage since. I now suspect that the damage may be due to rodents as the nibbled flower buds resemble similar damage that occurred to some Pleione buds stored in my garage over winter.
Does anyone have similar experience of rodents nibbling leaves/flower buds in the open garden?
Why is it always the rarest/most difficult plants that get targeted (I have extensive growths of E. revolutum which have not been touched!)?
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Does anyone have similar experience of rodents nibbling leaves/flower buds in the open garden?
Why is it always the rarest/most difficult plants that get targeted (I have extensive growths of E. revolutum which have not been touched!)?
Bank voles, Myodes glareolus, can be a big problem here, often lopping off juicy stems and shoots then leaving most uneaten. Discerning little gourmands that prefer the rarest plants or those long awaited from seed >:( They were accidentally introduced to Ireland in the 1920s but have spread dramatically in the last few decades, initially via waterways.
Every last cyclamen pod can be taken overnight once they reach a palatable ripeness. Trillium rivale is another favourite. However erythroniums are hardly on the menu in my garden because the slugs usually get in first :P
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Another of Ian Young's Bulb Logt video supplements on Erythronium
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH9Z2qoZD3E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH9Z2qoZD3E)
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An earlier one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS7NCsGbwSU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS7NCsGbwSU)
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[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
'Joanna'
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
'Kinfauns Pink'. This needs to be moved, NOT a good combination with the primrose!
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[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
'Sundisc'
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'Kinfauns Pink'. This needs to be moved, NOT a good combination with the primrose!
Yet very similar to the colouring of E.'Joanna'.
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Just as well Erythroniums are hardy.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
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Yet very similar to the colouring of E.'Joanna'.
Funny isn't it? I think it's the greater contrast and more vivid colours of 'Joanna'.
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Erythronium caucasicum flowered today well ahead of E. sibericum just emerging nearby.
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E. caucasicum is always the first to flower here in N. E. Scotland too - I think of it as being particularly obliging!
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Particularly beautiful too. Even the Hepatica is gazing up at it in adoration.
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I found the cause of damage to my Erythronium montanum -apologies for the unpleasant nature of this image:(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1627/26729971746_2229c665c3_o_d.jpg)
Erythronium elegans -A small group raised from seed. They burst out of the ground and came quickly into flower.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1475/26729974886_419fec4860_o_d.jpg)
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Now, just to play Devil's Advocate here - just because you caught a mouse, does that prove a mouse did the damage? He may have just been passing through.....
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A murine autopsy with examination of gastric content provided the smoking gun Maggi.
Erythronium leaf, erythronium flower, peanut butter, cheap cider and cheesy Doritos -guilty as charged!
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I'd reckoned without your medical thoroughness, Steve! Yup, guilty!
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A murine autopsy with examination of gastric content ...
No photos Steve? :) ;D ;D
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Ashley, don't you encourage him! (Even though the photos would surely be of very high quality.....) :P
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A murine autopsy with examination of gastric content provided the smoking gun Maggi.
Erythronium leaf, erythronium flower, peanut butter, cheap cider and cheesy Doritos -guilty as charged!
Is your middle name "Quincy" by any chance?
;D
cheers
fermi
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The Erythroniums are lasting and lasting this spring what with the cool temps, highs in the 10c range and lows in the 5-7c range.
Photos 1-2
A new little patch of E. 'White Beauty' which seems to have taken a long time to settle in and get going. The former group mysteriously disappeared after many years of happily growing away, not uncommon as also reported by other gardeners.
Photos 3-4
Not sure if this is 'Pagodoa' or another look-alike - was the name 'Kumondo' or something similar? - that I foolishly planted in close proximity. One vanished but with which am I left?
john
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Ashley, don't you encourage him! (Even though the photos would surely be of very high quality.....) :P
Just be thankful he wasn't out with camera in hand on naked gardening day..........
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The Erythroniums are lasting and lasting this spring what with the cool temps, highs in the 10c range and lows in the 5-7c range.
Photos 1-2
A new little patch of E. 'White Beauty' which seems to have taken a long time to settle in and get going. The former group mysteriously disappeared after many years of happily growing away, not uncommon as also reported by other gardeners.
Photos 3-4
Not sure if this is 'Pagodoa' or another look-alike - was the name 'Kumondo' or something similar? - that I foolishly planted in close proximity. One vanished but with which am I left?
john
Good morning, John,
Do you mean Erythronium californicum x tuolumnense Kondo?
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Good morning, John,
Do you mean Erythronium californicum x tuolumnense Kondo?
Yes thanks, that's exactly the one. Do you think that is it in the photo or is it 'Pagoda'?
john
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At home, here "Pagoda"
[attach=1] [attach=2] [attach=3]
And "Kondo"
[attach=4]
In view of the brands on the foliage, I would go on '' Pagoda". Others also have an idea?
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I grew the following Erythronium from SRGC seed sown in January 2010. There are three seed pods. I would like to send the seed to the seed exchange but want to be sure it is correctly named (which might be difficult from photographs).
Erythronium californicum x multiscapoideum
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Erythroniums are awakening, with White Beauty in bloom.Itching to get the pollinating brushes out again.
Last year a new seedling bloomed, another Pagoda look-alike, but with a fairly deep red centre.Unfortunately only one bloom per stem opened, hoping for a better showing later this year with all blooms opening, if so, I think it's a keeper.