Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Pleione and Orchidaceae => Topic started by: monocotman on February 07, 2016, 08:30:01 PM
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Hi,
Anyone else seen movement in their plants after this wacky winter?
I checked my formosanum today in the greenhouse and there are plenty of shoots visible.
Some are an inch long. It won't be long before it flowers.
Regards,
David
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Both formosanum and segawai are moving for me (-both spent the winter in a cold garage with my other Cyps) but unfortunately mice have nibbled at the growing shoots of segawai. These wee varmints have also nibbled on Pleione coronaria and the rootstocks of Platanthera grandiflora and blepharoglottis. All in all a very expensive rodent salad!
Wee, sleekit, cow'rin, tim'rous beastie!
You have good reason to be scared
.....................be very scared!
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Hi
Might need a bit of help this year. I was away for a month and on my return my staging had collapsed and my pots were all over the place. Frozen to the ground and smashed . I don't know how long they lay there frozen. Labels are mixed up and I know I have lost 50% of my plants. I was upset but then there are other things in my life that I am dealing with at the moment which put things into prospective . I knew the staging wasn't secure and should have moved the plants, ok no point crying over spilt milk as they say. I will post some pictures when they flower and hopefully you can help me out . Plants all back in the cold frame where they were before I decided to move them ::)
Angie :)
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Hi Angie,
so sorry to hear about your dilemma, it must be very upsetting. I'm sure our fellow cyp growers will be able to help you with identification, once you post pictures.
Just a question, why do you grow your cypripediums on a staging? is it so that you can see them better? I have been tempted to do the same but the weight put me off. So mine are just off the ground on solid wooden planks resting on bricks. Seems to work for me.
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Angie,
sorry to hear of the losses.
Please post photos when you have them.
It would be useful to have a full list of what you have then it may be easier to put a name to a plant.
Regards,
David
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Maren I decided to move my cypripediums where they were more sheltered from the wind. Where I live is very windy and also thought it might be easier lifting the pots of the staging rather than the ground. Hate to say my husband is in construction and he did say he wouldn't put heavy pots on there. Oh well to late now. At least he never said I told you so ;D
The sad thing is that it was the mature plants that suffered. They were in big terracotta pots and they were the ones that were smashed to bits.
David I will write down the names and I know I have lost two that I got from Anthony Darby sorry Anthony. Will post pictures hopefully. I have them in my greenhouse for the time being , just thought I would give the some protection but maybe this isn't a good idea.
Thanks
Angie :)
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Have you got other terracotta pots to replant them in, Angela? We can maybe help you with those.
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Thanks Maggi for your kind offer. I bought some today .
I have plenty pumice as I bought a few bags when I could and Ian Christie gave me some. Hopefully I will be able to purchase some cypripediums at Dunblane on Saturday. My plant piggy bank is full up so needs to be emptied. Changed days when I used to use a knife to get money out of my sisters piggy bank, she never knew ::) ;D
Looking forward to Saturday .
Angie :)
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I hope you've not been using that trick on Derek's piggybank - he needs it for the golf balls, y'know!
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I don't have a lot but there are many noses up
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I hope you've not been using that trick on Derek's piggybank - he needs it for the golf balls, y'know!
Yes and that golf hobby is expensive. My piggy bank sits on my kitchen worktop and somehow his change seems to jump into it :) and it never gives me a problem not like my plants.
Mark , hopefully a good display soon.
Angie :)
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You are a hoot, Angela ! Just as well it's a big coach for the Dunblane Day visit!
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You are a hoot, Angela ! Just as well it's a big coach for the Dunblane Day visit!
;) :-*
Angie :)
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Cypripedium formosanum and Cypripedium plectrochilon in flower.
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Cypripedium parviflorum blooming for the first time, thanks to the generosity of Rimmer DeVries.
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It's nice to see Cyps in flower. I looked in the woods the other day for C. parviflorum and couldn't see the leaves yet.
Cypripedium formosanum and Cypripedium plectrochilon in flower.
Wim, it strike me how similar C. plectrochilon is in regards with the C. arietinum, so I took a moment of procrastination to check it out. It seems that the accepted name is
C. plectrochilum nowadays. Not surprinsingly that C. arietinum (Franch.) was given as an synonim at some point.
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Wim, it strike me how similar C. plectrochilon is in regards with the C. arietinum, so I took a moment of procrastination to check it out. It seems that the accepted name is
C. plectrochilum nowadays. Not surprinsingly that C. arietinum (Franch.) was given as an synonim at some point.
They are the same now? I thought C. arietinum was an American species and C. plectrochilon an Asian species. I wouldn't call them the same, there's no overlap of populations whatsoever and even though they are very similar there are some differences.
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Still two totally separate species according to the Kew Species List.
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I have received two C. calceolus today. They look to be vigorous plants.
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They are the same now? I thought C. arietinum was an American species and C. plectrochilon an Asian species. I wouldn't call them the same, there's no overlap of populations whatsoever and even though they are very similar there are some differences.
Of course they are not the same. I only said they are very look-alike. In the all too confusing FOC they still place C. arietinum Franch. (not valid anymore) as a syn. to C. plectrochilum. Cypripedium arietinum R.Br. - the valid name. All these little details....
I just thought you may want to know about the name of your beautifully grown Cyp. :)
http://www.theplantlist.org/1.1/browse/A/Orchidaceae/Cypripedium/ (http://www.theplantlist.org/1.1/browse/A/Orchidaceae/Cypripedium/)
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Of course they are not the same. I only said they are very look-alike. In the all too confusing FOC they still place C. arietinum Franch. (not valid anymore) as a syn. to C. plectrochilum. Cypripedium arietinum R.Br. - the valid name. All these little details....
I just thought you may want to know about the name of your beautifully grown Cyp. :)
http://www.theplantlist.org/1.1/browse/A/Orchidaceae/Cypripedium/ (http://www.theplantlist.org/1.1/browse/A/Orchidaceae/Cypripedium/)
In the FOC it says Cypripedium arietinum Franchet (1885), not R. Brown (1813). The american species C. arietinum was described by the Scottish botanist Robert Brown from a herbarium piece in Kew. It seems the French botanist Adrien Franchet did describe a Cypripedium arietinum in Asia too, which is the same as C. plectrochilon??
The Plantlist does not mention a Cypripedium arietinum described by Franceht though....It is interesting to read, of course, Gabriela. Thanks for the info.
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In the FOC it says Cypripedium arietinum Franchet (1885), not R. Brown (1813). The american species C. arietinum was described by the Scottish botanist Robert Brown from a herbarium piece in Kew. It seems the French botanist Adrien Franchet did describe a Cypripedium arietinum in Asia too, which is the same as C. plectrochilon??
The Plantlist does not mention a Cypripedium arietinum described by Franceht though....It is interesting to read, of course, Gabriela. Thanks for the info.
Precisely my point; that's why I said it's confusing (FOC). There is no record of C. arietinum Franch.
Franchet worked his whole life at the National Museum of Natural History in Paris identifying plant species that were sent by the French missionaries from China. Luckily there are good records, and anyone can see them on-line.
He named Cypripedium plectrochilum in 1885 from a specimen sent by J. Marie Delavay.
https://science.mnhn.fr/institution/mnhn/collection/p/item/p00329109?listIndex=27&listCount=1348 (https://science.mnhn.fr/institution/mnhn/collection/p/item/p00329109?listIndex=27&listCount=1348)
And all this started by a little Cyp :)
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Have to ask, is FOC Flora of China?
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Have to ask, is FOC Flora of China?
Yes.
Though in Fife it may also roughly translate as "drat"! ;)
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Thanks Steve, though I have no idea what you mean about your Fifian translation. ;D
I had never come across FOC though at a quick glance it looks interesting.
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Thanks Steve, though I have no idea what you mean about your Fifian translation. ;D
I had never come across FOC though at a quick glance it looks interesting.
You can find useful info, depends very much on the genera. ID-ing something with their keys is not very easy and in any case it's best to double-check with other sources.
Frustration is a very common feeling after using the FOC ;)
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Do you have to buy the book or is it Free Of Charge.
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...Frustration is a very common feeling after using the FOC ;)
It is, isn't it...glad I'm not alone with that feeling.
Do you have to buy the book or is it Free Of Charge.
LOL, the FOC FOC is here: http://www.efloras.org/flora_page.aspx?flora_id=2 (http://www.efloras.org/flora_page.aspx?flora_id=2)
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A couple of wee Cyps in flower here:
Cypripedium plectrochilum
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7538/26355140233_1b1291ce63_o.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7472/26355140593_fd2ac5c721_o.jpg)
Cypripedium segawai
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7760/26354232944_a82d54f159_o.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7624/26354233374_a2770372a3_o.jpg)
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Cypripedium formosanum
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7012/26865359642_a5974b5d54_o.jpg)
Cypripedium japonicum
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7089/26355154813_43c2ff1a13_o.jpg)
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Hi Steve,
I love your plants and your photography.
Here is one of mine, Cyp Hank Small, 15 spikes and 30 flowers. I dug it up from my allotment last Friday to put on our the table show of the Thames Valley Orchid Society that night at one of our monthly meetings. It was touch and go because in my experience, cyps don't like to be transplanted when in flower. However, the weather was cool enough and the plant did not complain (so far). It won a silver rosette and went on to a show at Lea Valley on yesterday, where it won Best Hybrid in Show.
Initially, I wanted to take a plant of Cyp Gisela Pastel which was much more showy, had more and bigger flowers, but the plant wouldn't come out of the ground and I did not want to break my fork. so it was little Hank instead.
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What a superbly grown Cyp. Maren!!!
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Cypripedium fasciolatum
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7287/26585854864_872e243388_o_d.jpg)
Cypripedium candidum(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7683/26585855344_709d135d89_o_d.jpg)
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A few of my Cyps - sichuanense out, tibeticum coming out (both from Holger Perner last year), and the promise of a lichiangense. iPhone photography only, I'm afraid!
Alex
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Cracking Cyps Alex!!!
Do the pots sit permanently in water? Evaporation through the clay pots should keep the roots cool.
Do you use tap-water or de-mineralised water?
How do you go about ordering Cyps from Holger Perner? I would like to get hold of sichuanense and his form of tibeticum.
Sorry for all the questions! ???
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Hi Steve,
No worries! The pots sit in rain water, about 1cm, whilst in full growth. Around now, as they are emerging or in early growth, the trays are filled less and allowed to dry before more is given.
Ordering from Holger is tricky because he sells out so quickly. The first thing to do is make sure you're on the mailing list - by the time you get the list from nurseries who trade his plants, it'll all be sold out. Even if you order as soon as you get the list, you may or may not be quick enough, so to secure things like farreri and sichuanense, I wrote to Wenqing way ahead of the list even appearing, about a year in advance of sending the plants out, and asked if I could reserve them - she seemed happy to do that.
Alex
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Maren, what a lovely pot of Cyp, Hank small . Mine were so disappointing it wasn't worth taking a picture. Hopefully next year will be a better growing year.
Angie :)
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I have a super pot of C. macranthos (doesn't look right) Eight stems all with buds and then they suddenly aborted. Anyone any idea why?
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Cypripedium parviflorum var. pubescens f. planipetalum this afternoon.
johnw - +12c & overcast
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Cypripedium calceolus v. planipetalum this afternoon.
johnw - +12c & overcast
Shouldn't this be parviflorum, or has Cypripedium parviflorum reverted back to calceolus, the Eurasian species?
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Shouldn't this be parviflorum, or has Cypripedium parviflorum reverted back to calceolus, the Eurasian species?
Far worse: Cypripedium parviflorum var. pubescens f. planipetalum
john
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Cypripedium montanum -A young plant, first time flowering.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7422/27498819875_ae35e37366_o_d.jpg)
Cypripedium Frosch's Mountain King.
This is a specific clonal selection of the hybrid between Cypripedium montanum and Cypripedium parviflorum which is more tolerant than montanum and almost all of the other representatives of the hybrid grex Sebastian. It survived the excessive wet of last winter without cover.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7707/27399823292_73d0bd9d2e_o_d.jpg)
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I saw some in flower at the local Wyvale garden centre. First time I've ever seen them. They were £20 each and I nearly got one. I assume these are probably best not bought in garden centres?
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Nice montanum! Where did you get that, may I ask? I've never seen it for sale.
Alex
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Hi Alex, I bought it from Christian Schreiner but I believe it initially came from the dutch company Anthura B.V. They produce the "Garden Orchids" range - an eclectic mix of easier species and hybrids all given trade names but with no indication of initial provenance. They also seem to produce (in small number) an esoteric range of species which never get onto the general market but are released through a couple of consumer outlets such as Christian Schreiner. I suspect these plants are a by-product of exploring new growing/hybridising techniques as the majority of such plants have no real "consumer appeal". The Anthura plants are always of good quality. Over the last few years I have bought a number of species including candidum, cordigerum, montanum, rebunense and various scarce chinese Cyps. Unfortunately I managed to kill rebunense through my own stupidity! Apart from Cyps I gather that they have also produced small numbers of other interesting orchids such as Calopogon, Calypso, Pogonia, etc.
Sadly for me all the Anthura Rebunense have sold out. I am looking to purchase the creamy-yellow (rather than white) form of rebunense -you don't know of a source do you?
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Cypripedium cordigerum
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7340/27426921021_d6c76cfcfa_o_d.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7425/27426921331_b750f91eea_o_d.jpg)
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Hi Steve,
Thanks for this. I scrutinize the Schreiner lists closely, but I'm sure I never saw a montanum, I would have jumped on it if I had! It must have been available in very small numbers only, I know he has a few things that are. Do you do anything unusual for its culture? It has a reputation for being extremely difficult....
I don't have a rebunense, but last year was extremely tempted by the beautiful plants being offered by this Japanese nursery; they have lots of very tempting things including a really nice (at least in the photos!) yellow rebunense, although it's not available at the moment:
http://www.yuzawa-engei.net/07Overseas/index.html (http://www.yuzawa-engei.net/07Overseas/index.html)
Alex
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As an addendum, I must say I have found that, while the Schreiner plants arrive inn excellent condition, they have a huge tendency to go backwards in the first year in a way that others (Perner etc.) don't. This is true with both Pleiones and Cyps for me. In subsequent years, they then improve again. Have you noticed this? I think it is due to the fact that they receive completely optimized conditions and nutrition in the de Jong greenhouse, then naturally suffer for a while when this is withdrawn! Eventually, they acclimatize to the new conditions of course.
Alex
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Cypripedium flavum -I got this plant about 18 years ago. It was planted in a very free-draining pumice mix in a shaded area and did well initially. For a number of years I lost interest in my plants. The garden cyps were ravished by slugs and overgrown by Ground-elder. Almost all died and this poor plant barely survived. More recently with judicious weeding, gentle feeding and slug protection it now has two flowering stems and stands over 80cm tall -last summer it was a victim of strong winds!
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7427/27498822795_113fa0d4f7_o_d.jpg)
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Cypripedium farreri -Second year of flowering.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7687/27426919421_b91440432b_o_d.jpg)
I bought four de-flasked farreri seedlings from Albiflora a couple of years ago. They were tiny and delicate on arrival but now two years later are growing on strongly.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7408/27426920641_2b1f73c2a3_o_d.jpg)
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Cypripedium lichiangense -A macro image of the flower which is apparently pollinated by Flat-footed Flies (which feed on fungi such as Cladosporium). The flower is said to resemble fungus-infected foliage which draws in these flies. The ironic reality is that in cultivation these plants often succumb to fungal infection.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7098/27426919981_34f53dc5e5_o_d.jpg)
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Cypripedium micranthum -Surprisingly straight-forward to grow if presented with frequent saucers of milk and fed Whiskas de-luxe cat food. It has been de-wormed and treated twice for fur-balls.
A somewhat underwhelming wee plant, that nevertheless has some charm when viewed up close.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7719/27399824512_90f61b3568_o_d.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7312/27498819325_2fb8697a4e_o_d.jpg)
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The cat's got the cream there Steve just fantastic, cheers.
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Awesome micranthum - I've been looking for that for a while - may I ask (once again) where you got it? Schreiner?
Here are a few Cyps flowering in my greenhouse at the moment: C. farreri (from Holger), C. lichiangense and C. bardolphianum (yellow form).
Alex
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Very nice looking Cyps Alex!!!
My micranthum was bought through an intermediary as I do not speak/read German. I believe the initial source was here: http://www.gartenorchideen-shop.de/Orchideen/Cypripedium-Frauenschuh/ (http://www.gartenorchideen-shop.de/Orchideen/Cypripedium-Frauenschuh/)
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Thanks, Steve. Wow, what a list they have! I'll certainly be making enquiries.
Alex
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Cypripedium aff. tibeticum -Could this be yunnanense? It has a smallish dark flower on a fairly long scape with the flower relatively upright rather than nodding.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7458/27674760682_7aa3e87d69_o_d.jpg)
Cypripedium hotei-atsumorianum -My favourite Cypripedium.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7694/27775259805_b88e04d6cd_o_d.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7389/27775260165_aacc1e3b9e_o_d.jpg)
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Hi Steve,
your Cypripedium hotei-atsumorianum is a stunner. Where did you get it from? I'd love one or two, just in case.
Regarding Schreiner plants, I agree, they arrive in superb condition and size and then they spend a year sulking or worse. A couple of years ago a friend alerted me to a sale of Anthura cypripediums at a local garden centre. They went for £4 a piece, marked down from £18 each. So I stocked up thinking that this was a really good deal.
Upon return to my nursery, I potted them up immediately. The pots were far too small and when I took the plants out of the pots, there was hardly any compost because the pots were just full of roots. The sad outcome is that none survived, while all my other plants from Frosch / Weinert are doing rather well.
I tried to tackle Camiel de Jong about this when he came to London last to give talk about the work at Anthura, but I didn't get very far. Basically, all one has to do is replicate the conditions pertaining at Anthura (which are not documented in any detail eg. temperature, feeding, water etc.) and then everything should be fine. Sigh!
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The cyps I got from Garden Orchids/ Anthura survived so far, but after 2 years I am yet to see them flower again, which is more than I expected when I got them considering the roots were going outside the pots and that most of those were rotten (but then I would suspect the garden center to be the cause of the rot rather than Anthura)
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Hi Steve,
your Cypripedium hotei-atsumorianum is a stunner. Where did you get it from? I'd love one or two, just in case.
Thanks Maren.
The hotei-atsumorianum came from Christian Schreiner.
I have a number of Cyps of various species that I have bought from Christian. The vast majority have settled in and grow without any problems. In my personal experience plants from this source have without exception been consistently robust and healthy-looking. They are clearly grown in optimal conditions to achieve this level of vitality. Of the few that fail to thrive I find that, in retrospect there are issues with my culture of them that have led to their setback. This may be due to fairly subtle changes -for instance last year I ran out of a coarse gravel that I use for top-dressing and instead I used a finer silicaceous grit (normally used within soil mixes); the new grit was too hydrophilic holding too much moisture around the collar of the plants creating collar rot (I am always heavy-handed and in a hurry when watering).
I accept that when a plant grown in optimal conditions is then grown in a more challenging environment losses might occur but surely that is not the fault of the original grower.
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Hi Steve,
not blaming anyone except myself for my failures, just sharing experiences. ;)
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There is some research suggesting that at least a few of the Trigonipedia Cypripedium (Chinese spotted leaf Cyp) species are pollinated by flies attracted to decay- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3088628/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3088628/)
I have noticed that Bluebottles and other flies seem attracted to the leaves and flowers of Cypripedium lichiangense. Whilst I find the flower attractive from a distance, close-up the flower surface resembles decaying mammal flesh. I was however surprised to find that some flies were laying their eggs on the flower (but not the leaves). These orchids are very prone to rot and so I was horrified to find a carrion fly orgy on my lichiangense -the fly eggs can be clearly seen on this image:
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7388/27464974583_121dbc9ecd_o.jpg)
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That must be today's wildest fact, Steve. Presumably the maggots will be sorely disappointed when they hatch - or is decaying flower just as tasty as meat? :o