Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: mark smyth on February 21, 2008, 08:01:59 PM
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One of the best snowdrop collections is open for viewing this Sunday. All money lifted - door, cakes, soups, snowdrops - is going to charity. This year the charity is aimed at children. I cant rememeber which one.
From memory doors open at 2pm and close at dusk.
The address is Acton Piggot near Shrewsbury. There will be signs up pointing the way. See you there!
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doors open at 11am!
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Will Margaret still have a good selection flowering this late, especially given the earlieness of the season. My (rather poor and weather-battered, muddied and flattened, dreadfully disappointing) season is almost over! Have you had an update from her about what there'll be to see? I might actually manage a few hours to go a-visiting this weekend. And of course Ashwoods is nearby isn't it?
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Ashwood is about 40 miles away. I havent heard what her garden is like this year. Only a few stragglers in mine now. The positive is this will be the first MO weekend in 7 years without heavy frost or snow. Temperatures for Sunday are forecast to be in the teens
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Mentioning Ashwood I succumbed this year and bought one of their new yellows
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That's a beauty, Mark. How do I get directions to Margaret's garden? I went there on the Shropshire gala weekend years ago when we all stayed at that awful hotel, but I can't remember where on earth her garden is.
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Okay, I found Acton Pigott on Goggle Maps. It's quite simple from Telford.
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I am jealous, none of my "yellow" hellies are THAT yellow :( :'(
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ya pays for what ya gets.
I've been kicked out of MO's house this year to make way for a special visitor - John Massey.
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ya pays for what ya gets.
:-X :P :'(
I've been kicked out of MO's house this year to make way for a special visitor - John Massey.
Well, it's for a good cause there as well then ;D Besides, you told us the weather will be good... you'll be fine in the potting shed..... ::)
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More like open sided barn ;D
I got a yellow with red blotches and dark green with red spotting at Homebase last week. I forgot to tell everyone. B&Q has lots of Anemone centred and party dresses. I forgot that also
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An extraordinary bright green leaf to the hellebore, Mark.
Super colour levels.
Paddy
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Mark - How could you post that yellow hellebore! Simply cruel.
It's 11 years since I visited Ashwood. Yellows have apparently come a long way. Kevin took me through the breeding house and I left with 6 x 2 gallon hellebores and a big Whichford pot - on the train and then the London tube to the hotel. What a scene that was! The hells were in bloom and everyone along the way wanted to know all about them.
Got my best x nigercors there.
Another raid might be in order. Do they do snowdrops?
johnw
Ashwood x nigercors
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Now Maggi, why was that x nigercorsis sideways when the original is not? Am I missing something?
johnw
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Limited amont of snowdrops. When I was there they were only offering nivalis and it's double. John has his own collection and a collection in one of the glass houses. Wasnt even allowed with photo range. I think there might have been some others available recently. As for the Hellebore it came home in a van with 12s of others
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Paddy the whole plnt has a paleness about it. When I get home I'll take a photo of the whole plant
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Seems to be defying gravity? ;)
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Now Maggi, why was that x nigercorsis sideways when the original is not? Am I missing something?
johnw
I haven't the foggiest, john..... but it's fine now ;)
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The only thing worse than a yellow hellebore is a yellow one with red spots on it,it just shows we all like different things and I would not have one in the garden.
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Mark I am sure if you had cleared it with John Massey prior to your visit you could have seen both the garden and collection. We did last year and he was ever so helpful, even showing us round himself.
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I am jealous, none of my "yellow" hellies are THAT yellow :( :'(
You should be so lucky, I bought one that turned out to be a washy shade of pink (not from Ashwood of course) :(
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Mark, I vaguely recall you saying previously something about Margaret Owen removing the flowers from her special snowdrops and only leaving the more ordinary ones for people to see on her open day (to reduce the theft risk), or is my memory playing tricks on me? If that's the case, I'm not sure how worthwhile the trip would be for a snowdrop enthusiast - unless she keeps the removed flowers in vases for visitors to see. Can you enlighten me?
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I was in Stourbridge today so could not resist popping into Ashwood after viewing Mark's yellow hellebore. Sad to say they had a special Hellebore weekend last weekend and had no pure yellows left, Kevin kindly looked all through his stock for me. The quality and range of plants was most impressive. Just had to put my name in the book for a yellow/yellow for next year.
John.M
PS John.M sounds better to me than Maggi's suggestion of "Jammy Donut" if no one else uses it.
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PS John.M sounds better to me than Maggi's suggestion of "Jammy Donut" if no one else uses it.
Spoilsport! And Jammy donuts are so yummy, too. Ah well, as you wish!
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I am trying to loose weight to save my knees a bit Maggi.
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I prefer Jammy Dodgers. :P
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Had a very interesting day at Margaret's. No shortage of snowdrops etc in flower also quantity of yellow coated personnel making sure they all stayed in the ground. The sales bench was kept topped up by Margaret, all the bulbs offered were firm unlike some I purchased recently. Had a sneak view of a good selection of single and double Hellebores hidden in the shed which had just come from Ashwood's.
Indebted to you Mark for drawing our attention to the open day at Acton Piggot.
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John you didnt say hello to me!
Martin she doesnt remove the flower from every special only those highly likly to go walkies like the 5 petal yellow that has occurred. Did I see it? No.
I was at Ashwwods also and got a private tour of John's garden. Totally amazing. He says there is now a waiting list for yellows that will be available in 2009 and 2010. The new breeding of yellow picotees - the so called Neon Range- look great. The flowers look sideways or up due to short flower stems
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A few photos of snowdrops which caught my eye at Margaret's.
Ruby Ba (can't read the rest)
Can't read label
close up of "can't read label"
Lutescens
Spetchley Yellow
John.M
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Last few
Madaleine
Madaleine
Bill Clark
Bill Clark
Flocon Du Neige
Flocon Du Neige
Spellings as per labels
John.M
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"Ruby Ba..." is most likely 'Ruby Baker'.
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Very observant John! I was in the garden for two days and didnt see those. I would guess the yellow with Ruby's name on it is one she has found. I wanted to take a photo of her but was scared to for some reason. I said hello to her on Saturday and after a few seconds the reply came "oh yes you're Mark Smyth from Ireland!" If only my white haired mother was into plants I wouldnt lose so many
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While at Ashwoods on Sunday John gave The Irish Three a plant each of their new selection of H. x nigercors that have white veins and the tiny green Hellebore
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I took way too few photos at Margaret Owen's.
Angelique
Blue Peter
Celadon
elwesii Helen Tomlinson
elwesii Michael Holcroft
elwesii selections x3
George Elwes
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Perhaps Margaret got it from Ruby Baker as it does not fit the description as in "Snowdrops".
Margaret came up to me whilst I was taking photos Mark and asked if I was taking them for lectures. On explaining it was just for my own interest she lost interest and carried on instructing which bulbs were to be dug up next for the sales desk.
Any ideas as to the name for the 2nd/3rd photos of the first batch? I can't make head nor tail of the writing.
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Imbolc
Maidwell C
nivalis selection
Percy Picton
Primrose Warburg
Quattrefoile
reginae-olgae Ken Becketts form
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and lastly
Sally Passmore
Sally Wickenden
Trymlet
Warham
Wasp
I have a feeling I have posted all of these already
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I think one says Czech but spelt Chech meaning one wild selected and given to her.
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Nice selection of pics, Mark and John. Wish I'd made it up to Shropshire. I think reg-olg Kenneth Beckett's Form should be reginae-olgae vernalis K.B.'s form. And the pic of 'Warham' isn't right - it looks like a nivalis rather than a plicatus.
That Blue Peter has an incredibly silvery-blue leaf!
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What a grand tour de force!
johnw
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I never thought about Warham and just edited it and posted. It should be a plicatus which it obviously isnt. 100 lines - one must study the leaf before posting
one must study the leaf before posting
one must study the leaf before posting
one must study the leaf before posting
one must study the leaf before posting ....
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I assumed you were probably tired after formatting and posting all those pics, Mark. Time for my lines...
I must make more of an effort to visit other snowdrop gardens.
I must make more of an effort to visit other snowdrop gardens.
I must make more of an effort to visit other snowdrop gardens.
I must make more of an effort to visit other snowdrop gardens.
I must make more of an effort to visit other snowdrop gardens.
(I'm cheating - using copy and paste)
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Nice set of photographs, Mark.
Was that G. reg. olg. Ken Beckett's Form in flower in Margaret Owen's last Sunday?
Paddy
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Great Picks Mark and John - thanks for sharing.
Next year I must save some of my 'galanthus miles' for Shropshire!
I think one says Czech but spelt Chech meaning one wild selected and given to her.
Could the one that says 'check' - mean simply that she needs to check who gave it to her?...
John
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Paddy yes it was flowering. As corrected by ?Martin it's the spring flowering r-o
I've been informed Celadon isnt correct
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Paddy yes it was flowering. As corrected by ?Martin it's the spring flowering r-o
I've been informed Celadon isnt correct
Yes, I meant to also mention (but forgot - nearly bedtime!) that 'Celadon' didn't look right. I've never seen it, but the markings and foliage are supposed to be very pale, which doesn't fit with the photo. I should have seen it as I used to visit Amy Doncaster (who selected and named it) in the early 1980s, but I don't recall it - maybe she selected it out later.
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Mark & Martin,
So, G. reg. olg. Ken Beckett's Form flowers in spring, indeed quite late into spring, main flowering time for all snowdrops really. Is this usual for any other Galanthus reginae olgae cultivars? I would have had the generalised idea in my mind that all G. reg. olg. were early flowering, even before Christmas.
I wonder if this late flowering has any benefits for this cultivar and other similarly late flowering reg. olg. cultivars in avoiding damage from wet conditions in the late previous season?
Are the spring flowering reg. olg. cultivars more reliable than those that flower in autumn? I must say I have had great failure with G. reg. olg.
Paddy
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I would have had the generalised idea in my mind that all G. reg. olg. were early flowering, even before Christmas.
You and me, both, Paddy.... That's exactly what I thought!
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You can extend the season with ssp. vernalis. The cultivars available, according to the book, are AJM, Alex Duiguid, M5287, Miss Adventure, Miss Behaving, MT4027. I'm sure there are many more available
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Maggi and Paddy ,
Gal. reginae olgae ssp. reginae olgae is flowering in my garden from September until November
Gal. reginae olgae ssp. reginae olgae ( corcyrensis ) is a bit later
Gal. reginae olgae ssp. vernalis starts here in end of December until March
I grow plants of Gal. reginae olgae ssp. vernalis from different locations :
Sicily, Calabria, Apulia, Montenegro - mostly received from botanists
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Reginae-olgae vernalis (of which 'Kenneth Beckett's Form' is a selection) is a sub-species of Reginae-olgae, with similar morphological features (e.g. silver stripe on leaves) but a spring flowering period instead of autumn-flowering.
For garden purposes, I reckon the spring flowering of ssp. vernalis negates the main advantage of the species, reginae-olgae, and it's generally such an insignificant feature in the garden during the main snowdrop season that it's barely worth having in the garden - you'll get a better show from most "ordinary" Gal. nivalis. Unless you want it for "completeness" or botanical interest, that is.
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Here is Celadon sent to me by Janet from Judy's Snowdrops
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Many thanks Mark, Hans & Martin for very informative replies. I think Martin has hit the nail on the head, that those which flower at the latter end of the G. reginae olgae season are such that they are not noticed among the many better plants in flower at that time and might be grown for completeness of a collection rather than for any intrinsic beauty.
I am unfamiliar with some of those you list Mark though think G. 'Alex Duiguid' rings a bell as being a reasonably good cultivar while G. 'Miss Behaving' and G. 'Miss Adventure' are certainly worth giving a miss. They are obnoxiously malformed snowdrops.
Ae the vernalis group of G. reginae olgae any easier in cultivation than the autumn-flowering cultivars.?
Many thanks, Paddy
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"obnoxiously malformed!" I suppose that depends on who is doing the looking. I find my plant a little cutie.
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Paddy, I find the couple of Reg-olg vernalis forms I have quite easy, but then I don't find autumn-flowering reginae-olgae all that difficult either on my well-drained, sun-baked south-facing slope (as opposed to what I assume is a slightly damper and cooler situation where you are).
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What cruel comments about a perfectley nice plant.If you restrict your self to the neat natural species instead of the overblown misfits and odities then they form a very nice part of the season.Here is one from gargano in Italy and I also grow others from Sicily and Calabria.
Martin I went to a book launch last night my first,enjoyable, but I am not expecting many more invitations.
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Tony ,
I can only confirm this statement !
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Tony & Hans,
Those are indeed lovely plants. My comments refer to the anomalous 'Miss Adventure' and 'Miss Behaving', hardly things of beauty?
Martin, Here the ground would be very wet over the winter months though it dries out very well at this time of year. That was the point of my question as to whether or not the vernalis cultivars were easier. I wondered if they had a better chance in my winter wet conditions. Though I planted previous G. reginae olgae bulbs in raised bed positions they still did not last. I shall try again - and seek out Tony's recommendations next time. Of course, I shall have to go to Gargano first to source the best cultivar forms.
Paddy
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Tony and Hans, I should have made it more clear that I was talking about reg-olg vernalis as a plant for the open garden, where it can so easily be overlooked during the main snowdrop season as it doesn't make a particularly eye-ctaching display at that busy time (I did say "For garden purposes, the spring-flowering period negates the main attraction of the autumn-flowering species")
As a plant for pots, of course, it's an excellent choice, being so neat and tidy. And in a pot (or, I suppose a trough) it's attributes are much more easily admired and not lost in the general garden display.
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Paddy
I cannot flower reg-olgae outside.Although the plants grow well and make huge clumps they never flower.The theory is the slugs eat them as they emerge.Gourmet food.I have the similar problem even in the greenhouse.
The Gargano is wonderful but unless you are truly single minded you would be completely distracted by the masses of other goodies,orchids,cyclamen,narcissus ............................
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Tony, that reg-olg vernalis from Italy is very nice indeed - better, I'd say, than some of the named (or numbered) forms around - a nice solid-looking and shapely flower with a good mark and nice thick petals (some other forms can be rather slim-petalled - elegant, perhaps, but less showy than your form). If you have other collected forms, I'd love to see pics of them.
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Paddy and Martin ,
For me are this cultivars like p.e. Kenneth Beckets form not so really well - they comes all from only one single bulb - it is much better to raise those plants from seeds ( I think it is clear this is genetic much more better )
I know - here is not so a big interest for any species Galanthus ....but if on a simply elwesii has a bit a difference in the mark or anything is a big "Boo hoo" !
The problem with all the cultivars is they are always only vegtativ multiplicatet - so I find the work of Martin very good to create new types ....but in some years ....
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Martin sorry no more photographs and they are finished for this year. No more posting either I am now of to Scotland for the weekend.
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Martin sorry no more photographs and they are finished for this year. No more posting either I am now of to Scotland for the weekend.
Hae a braw time, Tony!
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I am now off to Scotland for the weekend.
coming anywhere near us in Aberdeen, Tony?