Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: fermi de Sousa on January 06, 2016, 02:58:37 AM
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Oriental-Trumpet Lilium Hybrid 'Table Dance' looks a bit better this year but still only single flowered as a second bud aborted earlier.
Its short stature indicates that it was probably developed for pot culture, hence the name!
cheers
fermi
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Or perhaps it was named to commemorate some ones bachelor party ;) Either way a lovely lilly.
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When is the best time of year to pot up or plant out martagon lily bulbs? There seems to be contradictory advice around, some advocating disturbing the bulbs in spring, some in autumn. They take so long to grow from seed that I do not want them to suffer a setback!
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Hi Carolyn I would have though now while they are still dormant would be an ideal time. As you have said leaving it later would disturb them.
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Thanks, John, but the problem with martagons is that they start into growth very early and they are no longer dormant! They tend to sulk for a year if the roots are disturbed. Some people recommend moving them in autumn, but maybe they don't have our potentially damaging mixture of cold and wet to contend with in the winter.
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That's true it might be better then to leave them where they are till they die down. So Autumn might be the best time for these. I have some of these lilies, I'll have to check see if mine are showing yet.
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I think martagon lilies suffer if moved in the spring, the best time is late summer after flowering, because they start to grow new roots in early autumn.
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Same treatment as trilliums then, Leena? That would make sense, for plants which need to get off to a fast start in spring, before the leaf canopy opens.
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My Trilliums are so young yet, so I don't have experience about dividing or moving them :), but I have had martagon lilies for a long time, and when I have moved them in spring, they never flower well (if at all) that summer, but when moved later in the summer, they are ok the next summer. I think they may be more difficult in that sense than other lilies. Nevetherless, they are my favourites. :)
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Leena,my favourites too, especially the white ones. I collected seeds from my late mother's garden and now have a large potful of young plants (I potted on the whole potful each time, so that there would be no check to growth). I think I will plant them out in midsummer - I will be able to see where there are spaces at that time of year too! Thanks for your help.
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Gene Fox in his book, Martagon Lilies, says the best time to transplant is just after flowering. He doesn't mention anything in particular about root growth scenarios, but just states that transplanting at this stage allows the time necessary for root re-establishment before winter. Gene writes that the later you plant toward and into the fall, the less your success will be, but they will always survive. He also says that with the right care, martagons can be transplanted at any time of the year.
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Thank you Rick for mentioning this book, I didn't know about it.
I agree that in time martagons will grow whenever they are planted. About ten years ago we had lot of european water voles (Arvicola amphibius) in the garden, and they ate almost all my lilies, but after three or four years new martagon lilies started coming up in odd places, the voles had taken the bulbs into their burrows, and I think some scales had survived and started to grow again. Now I have nice clumps of lilies again. :)
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Thanks for the useful advice from the book, Rick. A pity that the book does not seem to be available to purchase anyhere.
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A pity that the book does not seem to be available to purchase anyhere.
I was going to write a review of this book a couple years ago for NARGS, but since it is out of print, there is little point. The book is popular among lily enthusiasts in the USA and Canada. (The author is Canadian.)
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I recieved from the seed exchange various lilium species, some of which are starting to grow. They are L. lancifolium var splendens and var flaviflorum, L. bulbiferum and just starting to appear above the compost is L. sulphureum.
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Thanks for the useful advice from the book, Rick. A pity that the book does not seem to be available to purchase anyhere.
To all those interested
The excellent book ''Martagon lilies"" by E.Eugene Fox is available direct from The North American Lily Society.
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and while I think of it, can anyone spare any seed of Auratum var. rubrovittatum please?
You may have it as Auratum rubrovittatum ''apollo".
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and while I think of it, can anyone spare any seed of Auratum var. rubrovittatum please?
You may have it as Auratum rubrovittatum ''apollo".
I have a L. auratum var. rubrovittatum from Japan but it never flower(maybe not enough sun light)
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G'day Dick,
you have the opposite problem to us in Australia, we have too strong sunlight.Most of my orientals are grown under 70% shade cloth or under the shade of my fruit trees.
Five years ago, I had auratum rubrovittatum apollo, but it only lasted one year.Since then everyone in Aus seems to have lost that clone and it has not been available since.
It flowered for me and I spread its pollen around and this year, several of its seedlings flowered.I saved pollen from the best but resisted setting any seed as they were first flowers on young seedlings.Next year I will cross the siblings and should get some good coloured seedlings.
If you want any seed of ceruum, lankonguense or duchartrei (free) send me a PM with your address.
Here are the 3 best all from 3 different crossings using apollo.
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Very beautiful, good work.
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Does anybody have pollen from L.gloriosoides from the mainland form?
Mine is about to flower. I keep it now the third year. It got a few sidebulbs from last year and the first flower this year.
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G'day Dick,
you have the opposite problem to us in Australia, we have too strong sunlight.Most of my orientals are grown under 70% shade cloth or under the shade of my fruit trees.
Five years ago, I had auratum rubrovittatum apollo, but it only lasted one year.Since then everyone in Aus seems to have lost that clone and it has not been available since.
It flowered for me and I spread its pollen around and this year, several of its seedlings flowered.I saved pollen from the best but resisted setting any seed as they were first flowers on young seedlings.Next year I will cross the siblings and should get some good coloured seedlings.
If you want any seed of ceruum, lankonguense or duchartrei (free) send me a PM with your address.
Here are the 3 best all from 3 different crossings using apollo.
Very nice flower, the first one looks like L. auratum var. pictum
I have no garden in my home that i have to grow my plants next to the window indoor, so there is not enough sun shine for the plant
I just find that my L. auratum var. rubrovittatum have one bud, but it seems to be incomplete development
hope that i can see the right colour
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Does anybody have pollen from L.gloriosoides from the mainland form?
Mine is about to flower. I keep it now the third year. It got a few sidebulbs from last year and the first flower this year.
I do keep some pollen of Mainland L. gloriosoides in my refrigerator, but I don't know how can i send the pollen to you that it is a really long distance between Hong Kong and Germany.
And your L. gloriosoides makes me confused, did it flower before? It just so different from mine and other L. gloriosoides i have seen before.
Yours leave is wider then the normal one and it always has 3 veins.
the buds would turn downside when it start develop
here is my L. gloriosoides which bloomed in last month and it came from Lushan (Jiangxi)
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Thank you it did not flower before. It was from Chen Yi and I was not sure if it is the right thing.
Some other growers from Germany which had several times Lilium gloriosoides from the same source in flower told me it should be one. Still there is doubt it might be something else.
How do you keep the pollen? Deep freeze or just ordinary refrigerator? If the bud does not turn downside in the next weeks it is certainly something else.
The small bud looks like a small bulb which sometimes lilies develope if they are not strong enough for a flower. Even in species which usually never have bulbs at the stem.
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Thank you it did not flower before. It was from Chen Yi and I was not sure if it is the right thing.
Some other growers from Germany which had several times Lilium gloriosoides from the same source in flower told me it should be one. Still there is doubt it might be something else.
How do you keep the pollen? Deep freeze or just ordinary refrigerator? If the bud does not turn downside in the next weeks it is certainly something else.
The small bud looks like a small bulb which sometimes lilies develope if they are not strong enough for a flower. Even in species which usually never have bulbs at the stem.
I just keep the pollen in ordinary refrigerator that i want to cross it with the taiwan gloriosoides later,
I can give you some if you want it but you have to tell me how to sent it to you.
Although most of the lilium from chen yi always come with a wrong ID but seems that L. gloriosoides always be right.
Your plant look really good and the flower must be very beautiful.
My auratum rubrovittatum grow a small bulb on the top of the plant in the past few years but it finally grows as a 'bud' in this year although it is not fully develop.
By the way, anyone has contacted Chen Yi recently? Seems that she has disappeared on the internet.
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Lilium lophophorum -Looks like one of those creatures that drops from the ceiling onto an unsuspecting victim in a cheap Sci-Fi/ horror flick.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7311/27221711270_c5b4881de8_o.jpg)
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What a splendid photograph Steve, of a very elusive beautiful lilium.
Dick, what a shame you have limited space to grow your liliums.You have a very observant eye in distinguishing different features of the species I've noticed in your posts.It makes me look a little closer too!Thanks for posting your beautiful L.gloriosoides, mine are still at the seedling stage.
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Steve:
I know the movie.
"Not of this earth" Blood suckers and all.
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Dick Cheung, I have no news from Chen Yi. I think she is out of business or even worse. :'(
Did your gloriosoides set seed? Or do you have only one plant?
How about the usual decline of gloriosoides others often experience?
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Dick Cheung, I have no news from Chen Yi. I think she is out of business or even worse. :'(
Did your gloriosoides set seed? Or do you have only one plant?
How about the usual decline of gloriosoides others often experience?
My China gloriosoides did not set seeds because I have only one flowering plant in this year.
but I have some Taiwan gloriosoides that I can get seeds.
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[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
Lilium pyrenaicum is always the first to flower for me, even though it's quite late to come above ground. I love this lily, so easy and makes a beautiful, if short-lived show.
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My China gloriosoides did not set seeds because I have only one flowering plant in this year.
but I have some Taiwan gloriosoides that I can get seeds.
Dick and Axel,
very nice plants - Thanks for the photos!
Whenever I see L. gloriosoides (or L. speciosum v. gloriosoides) in cultivation, my first question always is:
How do you cultivate it? What do you use as substrate and how moist or dry do you keep it?
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This single plant if it is one, grows in broken expanded clay. The bulb is surrounded with charcoal pieces. Under the bulb is some soil from a fir-wood mixed to it. I fertilize with Osmocote.
The pot is in my Studio which is unheated but mostly frost free. Since this spring, it gets some spraying with Borax solution. The foamed clay might be a source of boron too.
Here are more pictures of an early stage and a detailed recipe for this plant in German.
http://forum.garten-pur.de/index.php/topic,52005.840.html (http://forum.garten-pur.de/index.php/topic,52005.840.html)
Thats what the bud looks like at the moment.
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The first of my species lilium said are in flower, fist is the small L. tenuiflium with bright red flowers, next is L. pumilum, a taller plant, also with loverly red flowers.
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Hi John, nice little lily and not one I have tried for some reason (I'm very fond of species lilies and the turkscaps). However, I think L. pumilum and L. tenuifolium are the same thing - pumilum is the correct name, at least for the moment!
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-279815 (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-279815)
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/search?q=lilium+tenuifolium (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/search?q=lilium+tenuifolium)
Did you grow these from seed as well?
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Hi Tristan are they really the same plant? Is tenuifolium an old name then? I bought it with that name attached.
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Hi Tristan I've just answered my own question, I followed your links and found my answer, this is what happens when people use old names, that's if they knew it was an old name of course. I think though I'll keep then separate because of the way they behave, the pumilum is the taller plant and has bigger flowers then the other for some reason.
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Lilium bakerianum ssp aureum
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Lilium bakerianum ssp aureum
Pale and elegant!
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Lilium martagon ssp cattaniae,the flowers are very small and almost black.
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I love this dark lily.
My strange lily from China is about to open any day. I can detect some reddish spots through the white of the bud. My camera cant.
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This morning I looked at Lilium gloriosoides. It will be the thing. Getting pure white and with my naked eye I can see the red dots in the inner part. I try to catch it while it opens.
I never thought it would get that big. The bud is 15,5 cm long
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This is no L.gloriosoides, i think.
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But a very beautiful photo, Axel!
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This is no L.gloriosoides, i think.
It looks like a Lilium oriental hybrid.
Maybe be crossed by L. nobilissimum and L.auratum/L. speciosum.
It is pretty.
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L. japonicum var. abeanum in early May and L. maculatum var. bukosanense in last week.
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There is something enchanting about the elegance of a lily flower.
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Yes, disappointing, but certainly not a loss! I was getting excited right along with you, because the bud was much fatter than normal for gloriosoides. A wide petaled variation would have been quite the breakthrough!
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Lilium landini
[attach=1]
Lilium regale
[attach=2]
Lilium lancongense
[attach=3] [attach=4]
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The small bulb bought last year Lilium nepalense will make a flower this year.
He brought forth its shoot at 50 cm from where I planted.
[attach=1] [attach=2]
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Axel, beautiful nevertheless...
Would be interesting to know if it is hybrid or not.
Dick, what a precious beauty you have!
I cant remember ever having seen a L. japonicum abeanum in cultivation.
Do you plan to harvest seeds from it/do you have a second plant of that type?
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Axel, beautiful nevertheless...
Would be interesting to know if it is hybrid or not.
Dick, what a precious beauty you have!
I cant remember ever having seen a L. japonicum abeanum in cultivation.
Do you plan to harvest seeds from it/do you have a second plant of that type?
Hello Erwin
I have two plants of L. japonicum abeanum and I have tried to do pollination on them, but it is not success.
I am not sure that if they are the same clone because I get them from the same source, maybe I try to get more plant from another source.
I also have a young plant of the pure white form L. japonicum abeanum but I am not sure if I can bring it up or not. It seems difficult to keep...
and about the mainland form L. speciosum gloriosoides,
I keep it in a normal potting mix which can easily buy at market. It seems to mixed by peat, perlite, coconut fiber and small vermiculite.
I put a small inverted pot in the bottom of the pot to make an "air room" and then fill some ceramsite to enhance the drainage.
Lastly, put the soil and plant the bulb. I have to put the bulb in refrigerator do the vernalization as HK is not cold enough in winter.
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I thank everybody for comforting me. It is a beauty I agree.
This perfect flower is 23 cm across so I doubt a wild one. It is now still open without a flaw as the pictures show. Very wide and perfect symmetrical. The perfume is too strong for a room so it stays in the garden.
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Axel,
It looks a lot like an old (1960s) oriental hybrid 'Cristabel' but most lilely a similar cross between L. speciosum and L. auratum,
cheers
fermi
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Thank you fermi, someone else mentioned "Muscadet"
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Lilium nepalense. The label is faint but I think it came from Johnw in Nova Scotia many years ago.
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Lilium chalcedonicum from Greece
Lilium amoenum from China
One bought as Lilium parryi but it is wrongly labeled
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Prepare for Lilium martagon overload ;D
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More
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Lilium martagon var. album
Lilium martagon var. cattaniae
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Forgot this one
Lilium 'Lankon'
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Roma, your garden is, as ever, a delight - to see plants enjoying life so much is a real pleasure. Those L. martagon are "locally plentiful" and no mistake! Superb display!
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Roma, you have wonderful martagons, and a lot of them! Martagons are my favourite lilies, but mine are here and there in the garden, and I don't get such a good display as when they are planted together.
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I didn't plant them, Leena. Apart from one clump of the white one and one of the dark var. cattaniae they are all self sown. I cut off the seed heads now and just leave a few for the seed exchanges. I have to do the same with Tulipa sprengeri.
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Lilium papilleferum
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Lilium chalcedonicum
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Lilium canadense red form
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Lovely red canadense there Tony. It's found in nearby New Brunswick but we've been unable to get seed. Is it indeed shorter than regular canadense?
Long ago a friend in Devon, Wanna Reardon-Smith, was desperate for it. I contacted a botanist in NB and he kindly collected it a few years later and sent me a tiny bulb. I went through horrendous paperwork to get it to Wanna, she was ecstatic to get it but sadly she died a few months later. She was a big & formidable plantswoman from Yorkshire. My introduction to her: Not a hello but looked me straight in the eye and said "Differences between Magnolia sieboldii and M. wilsonii", I was quaking in my boots. She had a NC of Paris.
john
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John first flowering and it is not at all typical. It is about 18 inches this time but the flower is on a long arching pedicil . As it was developing I was convinced it was not going to be true so very pleased it is.
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Here are a couple of lilies I grew years ago from RHS lily group seed. I have long ago lost the parentage. The red one I think has L. parvum in it. PM me if you would like a few scales.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
This orange one is paler than usual this year, perhaps due to the lack of sunshine and cool temperatures.
[attachimg=3]
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Tristan,very lovely
Lilium brownii from Chen-yi
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Lilium lancifolium 'Flore Pleno', not very fond of double flowers but I allow it since it's an old variety. I don't want it to spread around so I will collect the bulbils - if anyone is interested please let me know (keep in mind I can only send them in Canada).
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Lilium rubescens
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7586/28476375770_52dd4218a9_o.jpg)
Lilium canadense var. coccineum
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8762/28476377220_da3f9c917e_o.jpg)
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Very nice liliums Tristan!
Here is L. cernuum f. Baranova flowering this past season.
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lily catesbaei growing between the saricineas 19 July
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Lilium speciosum from wild seed
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I thank everybody for comforting me. It is a beauty I agree.
This perfect flower is 23 cm across so I doubt a wild one. It is now still open without a flaw as the pictures show. Very wide and perfect symmetrical. The perfume is too strong for a room so it stays in the garden.
This plant set seed pollinated with pollen from the real thing. Thanks Dick. The main part of your pollen went to a friend here in Germany whose plant flowers just now out in the garden for the second time. 6 flowers. If it works we will share seeds with you.
http://forum.garten-pur.de/index.php/topic,52005.1065.html (http://forum.garten-pur.de/index.php/topic,52005.1065.html)
I have here some Pollen (ready to freeze) to be sent to you.
Here is the fruit of my hybrid just now. Of course you will get a share If you like.
@ Tony my supposed Hybrid looks very similar to your flower. How big is the flower?
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I have been cleaning seeds to send to the seed exchange. I have one old Lilium x martagon hybrid, I have gotten it from my mother-in-law, who remembers it when she was a child in the 1930s. Similar lilies have also been found elsewhere in Finland. It is very tall, about 2 meters or more (not only in my garden, but also in the gardens of my friends to whom I have given it). It starts to flower about two weeks later than normal L.martagon.
I was wondering how I should call it when I send the seeds to the seed ex? Would it be ok to call it L.x martagon "Sauvo", according to place where it was growing when my mother- in-law was a child and where I got it? Of course it is possible, that it has hybridized with martagons I also grow, so the seeds may not produce similar than the mother plant, but I don't know how easily these hybridize by themselves.
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I have white Lilium martagon, which stays white while it flowers, but I also have another old Lilium from Finland, which is at least 50 years old, and comes from the west coast of the middle of Finland. It's flowers open white but very soon they turn cream colored. It flowers the same time as white and pink martagon lilies.
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I have near my home a forest where white, cream white and white with faint pink dots grow together with hundreds of normal ones. Its a natural population, but at most places here, there are only pink ones with variable dots.
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Leena,
I think you should send the cream martagon seeds in with the description you have given, and Ian & Carole will sort out how to name it. I will certainly be requesting some of these seeds, what a beautiful lily!
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Thanks Carolyn, I will do that. :)
It is interesting that in Germany there are wild martagons in different shades.
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Leena that [Sauvo] is a beautiful lily, but I think it is a hybrid rather than pure martagon - possibly L. x dalhansonii?
I wish I could grow it but my conditions do not seem to suit martagons. :(
Best, Tristan
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What I wanted to mention is there are pure Martagons with this colour.
Here are some variations of this forest to be seen. The cream coloured is on the third page. Most others on the first page.
http://forum.garten-pur.de/index.php/topic,41320.0.html (http://forum.garten-pur.de/index.php/topic,41320.0.html)
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What I wanted to mention is there are pure Martagons with this colour.
Hi, yes I meant the Sauvo not the white one. Have modified my original post to make this clear.
Best, Tristan
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I think the cream coloured one might be a true martagon. But nonetheless I would just label yours a old garden form of martagon.
Very beautiful lilies in great shape.
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Thank you Tristan and Axel, this helps me with labeling the seeds. :)
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Leena my advice would be to label seed as 'Lilium division II hybrid, robust pale orange' or similar. Looking at some online pictures your lily could be something like 'Paisley Hybrid', 'Marhan' or 'Terrace City'. Or it could be a unique hybrid. Whatever it is, it's very good , and I'm willing to bet it involves both L. martagon and L. hansonii though (admittedly this is not a very daring bet! ;D ).
Best, Tristan
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I am looking for a bulk (or seed) of L brownie
Does anyone know a source of them. Have spent a lot of time looking but to no avail...
Thanks
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Tristan, in fact this lily is called marhanlilja in Finnish (marhan lily) :), but as it is an old cultivar, it can't be 'Marhan' or how old is 'Marhan'?
It is very vigorous, and tall, as tall as my delphiniums. It comes up in the spring even earlier than martagon lilies, and even when there can be quite severe frosts in the spring, they don't damage this lily.
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Some late lilies in flower here.
I think the first two are both variants of Lilium primulinum burmanicum.
The third is Lilium primulinum Rock's Var.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5536/30283554291_5c431fb08c_o.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5640/30334446136_63afa905dd_o.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5762/30334444846_3125ac6c99_o.jpg)
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very beautiful. what size are the flowers? to see the pollen grains, they should not be very large.
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very beautiful. what size are the flowers? to see the pollen grains, they should not be very large.
Many thanks.
These lilies are quite tall (1.2-1.6m) with fairly large flowers of 11-14cm diameter. They have a wonderful scent. Flowering is late in the season -too late to get seed set unfortunately.
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Speaking of seeds and wonderful smell ... The Lilium regale have seeds. I am in full harvest. What will I do with all this?[attachimg=1]
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Some seeds began to sprout in the pods.
[attach=1]
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Wow, impressive amount of seeds.
I think you are in trouble.
Maybe go to some fields and spread them in the wind? 😉
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I had already sown, on the fly, this year, in a new raised bed late January. Many have germinated. Now, I give to whoever wants. The photos below are:
1) young leaves half of January 2016.
[attach=1]
2) and 3) parents.
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
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Very nice forms of Lilium primulinum, Steve, especially Rock's var. It's not in my collection unfortunately.
L. lankongense remains my favourite species, maybe because it is so easy! :)Here are two differnt coloured clones.
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Lilium lankongense is actually a very beautiful species. It germinates easily when you sow its seeds. Here, a semi made inside the house on October 14, 2016.
[attach=1]
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I'm looking for L. aur. ssp. rubravitium "Apollo" and other L. aurt rub specimens. Any chance I can get a scale or two? There's a nice clone from Japan but they want $140/each
http://iwasaki.shop-pro.jp/?pid=110718799 (http://iwasaki.shop-pro.jp/?pid=110718799)
email me, izunamyojin@gmail.com
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This exceptional nice lily reminds me very much of an oriental hybrid "Tiger Woods" Very sturdy stems.
https://www.fluwel.com/lilies/tigerwood.html (https://www.fluwel.com/lilies/tigerwood.html)
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Yes "Tiger Woods" is close, but it's a hybrid like you said. "Apollo" is the only l.a.rub clone I know of that was in cultivation. There may be others but I think of any. I'd love to get it and try to reintroduce it. I think it was a pretty good performer.
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Is it certainly a non hybrid? Where was it found?
This should be clear before reintroduction.
Only one clone of this variety keeps me in doubt. Without another clone there will be no pure seeds.
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maybe this helps
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=721.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=721.0)
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Eddie McRae had several l.aur.rub he had collected over the years. He crossed them and almost all were the standard white w/ yellow stripe. Some were tinted with a little red, but very few if any were what he called the "deep ox blood" red that he was looking for . Not sure the genetics there. There was no consistency with regards to ratio that you expect to see in a recessive trait. It was more in line with a mutation. it apparently occurs often enough that it creeps up here and there. But crossing to Reb Bands doesn't produce Red Bands at any predicable ratio. It's a total crap shoot. But He did say that he got more and closer by crossing red band with each other that with a standard or a pink band (ssp. pictum).
If I can locate good red bands like "Apollo" or that Japanese Mt. Hokone clone (I think that's where they say it's from) then maybe we can get some good deep ox blood red bands.
Any suggestions?
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I also found a nice L. aurt pictum they're offering
http://www.ishidaseikaen.com/webshop/products/detail9672.html?PHPSESSID=8f7be1171abfc195ca5907c1f3de1b71 (http://www.ishidaseikaen.com/webshop/products/detail9672.html?PHPSESSID=8f7be1171abfc195ca5907c1f3de1b71)
Here's another site with some good stuff
http://www.sapporo-park.or.jp/category/item/lily/ (http://www.sapporo-park.or.jp/category/item/lily/)
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Eddie McRae had several l.aur.rub he had collected over the years. He crossed them and almost all were the standard white w/ yellow stripe. Some were tinted with a little red, but very few if any were what he called the "deep ox blood" red that he was looking for . Not sure the genetics there. There was no consistency with regards to ratio that you expect to see in a recessive trait. It was more in line with a mutation. it apparently occurs often enough that it creeps up here and there. But crossing to Reb Bands doesn't produce Red Bands at any predicable ratio. It's a total crap shoot. But He did say that he got more and closer by crossing red band with each other that with a standard or a pink band (ssp. pictum).
If I can locate good red bands like "Apollo" or that Japanese Mt. Hokone clone (I think that's where they say it's from) then maybe we can get some good deep ox blood red bands.
Any suggestions?
I have different wild variety of L. auratum include rubrovittatus, pictum, virginale and white flower with spotted(no name?).
Some are seedling only and some are adult bulbs but they rarely bloom because there has not enough sunshine in my home.
Seems that some pink variety were found in japan, but i am not sure these are real variety or natural hybrids.
Besides that, i know that a clone of rubrovittatus could bloom as pictum in different environment.
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That is weird. What about the environment would effect flower coloration? And that drastically as well.
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Could be the level of acidity or some elements or their availability in the soil.
F.e. I use a weak Boron-solution sprayed on the leafs to improve vitality. With some plants it changes the colour of the flower usually more intense coloration.
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Good point.
Do you know where to get a start of Apollo?
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I’m a great believer in sowing sooner rather than later. These L. philadelphicum were in freezer from 7-24.11.17, then into a tub of moist vermiculite where first signs of germination were on 08.12.17, then potted up on 19.12.17. I will keep them ticking over indoors under lights until it’s warm enough to put them outside, and hope to get an extra long first growing season.
Thanks Gabriela for great seed.
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Great Keith :) good to see the freezing worked for you.
I never recommended, because sowing in the fall and keeping the pots outdoors gives very good results in our climate. But for someone in a warmer region obviously it is a good option, I'll mention this in the shop - thanks!
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I also grew L. philadelphicum v. andinum from the NARGS seed ex. Seed would have been collected in 2015, as I received the seed in early 2016. Froze the seed for 3 weeks, then (March 2) put in moist vermiculite in sealed baggie under lights for 7 days, on the eighth day actual germination began. Then planted, and they began emerging on March 18.
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I also grew L. philadelphicum v. andinum from the NARGS seed ex. Seed would have been collected in 2015, as I received the seed in early 2016. Froze the seed for 3 weeks, then (March 2) put in moist vermiculite in sealed baggie under lights for 7 days, on the eighth day actual germination began. Then planted, and they began emerging on March 18.
Ok Rick, thanks. So freezing makes sense for seeds received/bought in early/late spring.
I would like a mention about the var. andinum - which is unsupported on the account that its most 'strong' character = the lenght of the capsule was proven to vary greatly depending on the environmental conditions.
And indeed, I've witness all sort of L. philadelphicum: short forms with shorter capsules, tall forms with long capsules and everything in between. In fact, in the region where I collect seeds, all individuals regardless of the height have long(er) capsules (which would qualify them as var. andinum).
Lilium philadelphicum is extremely variable, that's all. I would like one day to find the yellow form mentioned in Flora of Michigan :)
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I’m a great believer in sowing sooner rather than later. These L. philadelphicum were in freezer from 7-24.11.17, then into a tub of moist vermiculite where first signs of germination were on 08.12.17, then potted up on 19.12.17.
(Attachment Link)
in the freezer at what temperature?
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My freezer temp is 4F (-15C). But only dry seed at that temp.
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in the freezer at what temperature?
Its the freezer compartment of the refrigerator, so it’s only around -5 °C.
I should also make clear that the seeds are frozen while still dry.
The method came from Pacific Bulb Society (http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/LilyGerminationBySpecies (http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/LilyGerminationBySpecies)).
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I do wonder about the self defrosting freezers. If you just put a thin envelope with seed in such a freezer, would the seed got through freeze/thaw cycles? I do keep seed in a self defrosting freezer, but I store the seed inside an insulated box.
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you put the dried seeds at -5 ° C for 3 months for the delayed hypogeal germination species? as for example for Lilium martagon? I have a lot of martagon seeds from my garden to do experiments.
I ordered seeds of Lilium henryi because my giant plant (2.50 m tall and 10 years old) was completely devoured by field mice last year. :'(
you advise me what for germination: to wait to sow in April in a greenhouse?
last year I tried this way Lilium mackliniae, but without success.
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Delayed hypogeal germinators as Martagon start at once if kept moist in a bag with Sphagnum or another moss about 20 centigrade for 3-8 weeks. In this time they form the hibernating bulb and come out with the first true leaf after a cold period-
I usually pot them and keep them outside over winter. But if I am too late and frost is already heavy I keep them in the bag in the compartment of my fridge for vegetables until it gets warmer.
If sown outside while it is already late in autumn they build their bulb in the summer next year with the first leaf the following year.
The warm period they are usually in a drawer of my desk. At the moment some different seeds of the martagon section from the Ussuri region in Russia and some martagons from here. The bulbs are already out but will grow some time to their full potential
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you put the dried seeds at -5 ° C for 3 months for the delayed hypogeal germination species? as for example for Lilium martagon? I have a lot of martagon seeds from my garden to do experiments.
I ordered seeds of Lilium henryi because my giant plant (2.50 m tall and 10 years old) was completely devoured by field mice last year. :'(
you advise me what for germination: to wait to sow in April in a greenhouse?
last year I tried this way Lilium mackliniae, but without success.
The freezing is specific to L. philadelphicum (as far as I know). After planting, the seeds germinate and produce a leaf in a few weeks (Immediate Epigeal).
L. henryi and macklinae are also both Immediate Epigeal (but don’t need the freezing step).
If you sow them now indoors, they will germinate in a few weeks, and you’ll need to give them light until it’s warm enough to put them outside (April?).
If you sow them outdoors, they’ll germinate when the weather warms up (again April).
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thank you for the clarification