Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Pleione and Orchidaceae => Topic started by: Nova on January 03, 2016, 09:03:30 AM
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Wishing everybody a prosperous 2016 I start this year by posting some pictures of an unregistered albiflora x praecox cross made by Anthura in Holland. One stands out by it's size and colour and I just had to give it a cultivarname, it's 'Glamazon'.
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.. One stands out by it's size and colour and I just had to give it a cultivarname, it's 'Glamazon'.
;D
Love the name, Khadija!
cheers
fermi
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I checked my pleione pots this afternoon -- they are in a raised bed and are under plastic sheeting to keep the rain off. Instead of 40 or so pseudobulbs in 7 pots and a trough, I found -- maybe -- 4 small pseudobulbs. The rest had been eaten by rats! :'(
My rat catching ability has proved poor and now I'm paying the price. It will be several years before the trough of 'Tongariro' is full again. My pots are now covered with fine mesh wire. I guess that's akin to closing the barn door after the horses have gotten out.
...Claire
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I was worried that I was going to have the same problem here. As always I have been feeding the birds in the garden but they seem to have the attitude, "Eat one, chuck two" and the ground was getting covered with seed. We have had enough rain to fill the local dykes and I guess the rats have been flooded out and for the first time in twenty years plus, the little darlings were running around the garden in broad daylight. Next stop was to dig their way into the greenhouse, but thankfully I caught one munching on a Barcena bulb and I have a surplus of those. A little hole filling, water levels dropping, no more bird feeders, no rats seen for a week, hopefully problem sorted.
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I've had rats in the greenhouse but apart from knocking over pots, they have never touched my bulbs.
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Lucky you ;D ;D
Last year it was woodmice. Actually saw one carry my only small confusa bulb away like a mimi squirrel. Guess that's the disadvantage of having umpteen miles of farmland over the fence. As soon as it goes cold and the fields are ploughed the mice come in. The mess they made of my fishing nets defies belief and I've lost count of the number of times I have been disturbed whilst driving as one leaps out of my kit. Good job I am not bothered by the critters. Just so long as they don't eat the electrics.
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I put poison down in the end but made sure the greenhouse door was closed in case other animals got in. Seems to have done the trick for now.
Think there are so many other berries in the garden they don't bother with the Pleione.
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As a relative beginner (one season) I took Mr C2's (2015) advice and aimed at obtaining flowering sized bulbs for this year.
It is now early (UK) January and all the 'bulbs' are still in the fridge in a paper bag. Do I need to check them every couple of days or every couple of weeks?
One of them is slug killers profile photo, forrestii 'Vietnam'* - Is this one as early as suggested?
I have quite a lot of 'bulbs' (some tulip sized), by accident and design, to go at this year so where should I start? ... I have a variety of 'situations' in which to place them right now or should I wait for a month or two?
* can't remember where I got it ;).
** Don't forget that some 'total noob' like me may be reading this thread looking for good advice sometime in 2030 :o **
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Hi,
you could start by reading the cultural advice on my website. ;)
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Hello everyone!
I am curious did you already receive Ian's bulbs for this season? I remember last year i got the package early in january. But this year still nothing. I am worried the package is stuck somewhere ???
Thanks in advance,
Regards,
Gregor
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Hi Gregor,
don't worry about receiving Ian's package. He will not ship when the weather is very cold. And that's a good thing.
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Hello Maren.
Yes i was thinking this could be the reason. Have to wait for better temperatures then :)
Thank you for info ;)
Regards,
G
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Received mine last week so no doubt he is working through the list and has paused as it is a bit cold here. Only a bit ;D
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I guess i had to ask on the forum.... i received the package today :D
Yes, it was cold and still is here in Slovenia.
Regards
G
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Hello everyone!
I am curious did you already receive Ian's bulbs for this season? I remember last year i got the package early in january. But this year still nothing. I am worried the package is stuck somewhere ???
Thanks in advance,
Regards,
Gregor
I got my bulbs this week. Postman left them on my doorstep. Came home just as temperature dropped below 0 C. Fortunately I saw the package and brought it inside.
Regards Erling
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Right on time Erling! 8)
G
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Sirena
A rather lovely clone newly acquired from Ian Butterfield.
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Sirena
A rather lovely clone newly acquired from Ian Butterfield.
Very pretty indeed.
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Nova,
do you know which Pleiones is selling Anthura this year ?
Gian
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Any idea of which Pleione can be this one, with semi flat pseudobulbs, from Gardenorchid ( so I suppose it comes from Anthura) ?
Thanks in advance
Gian
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The first Pleioneflowers for this year.
Pleione forrestii
Pleione humilis
Pleione 'Riah Shan'
Pleione 'Sirena
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Johan - that's a really deep yellow forrestii you have there. Beautiful. Is that a true representation or has the camera or lighting enriched it? My forrestii have always been much paler. Incidentally, I find forrestii to be very difficult to grow from year to year. I have some new stock (again!) - 6 pseudobulbs in all - which I am growing in 6cm depth live moss on a bark/moss/perlite substrate in a 30cm pond basket. The photos elsewhere on SRGC showing forrestii growing wild in China on a rock face in moss has inspired me to try again. The most I ever had was about 8-10 growing and flowering - also in moss. I found that a fluctuation in temperature (warming) seemed to cause - I think - rapid flower wilting and drop. And as I said I couldn't keep the stock going and within 4 years I hadn't one left. I'm aiming for better temperature control this time. Does anyone have any opinions? ???
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Very nice forrestii, love the bold bloodred marks. That is true representation of he colour, some are pale and some have an almost neon yellow colour.
Any idea of which Pleione can be this one, with semi flat pseudobulbs, from Gardenorchid ( so I suppose it comes from Anthura) ?
Thanks in advance
Gian
I don't know Gian. Anthura is a wholesaler that doesn't sell to the public, only to retailers.
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I think it may be Pleione formosana v. alba, but that's a guess.
It is quite impossible to identify a pleione from the bulb only. Even if the bulb looks as distinctive as, say, P. maculata, it cannot be ruled out that the plant may be a hybrid.
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My few pleione bulbs are in a wooden box with sand in the bottom for drainage. This has a layer of fibre on top. The bulbs are inserted up to half way. The whole planting layer is covered with three layers of fleece for the winter. Shoots are visible on some bulbs. It was down to 20F two nights ago but this does not seem to have affected the bulbs so far. My cyprepediums are in the garden planted in ordinary garden soil, neutral, and are covered with a layer of leaves.
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which Pleione this can be? it is from Gardenorchid ( Anthura?)
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I know it's a little early to mention maculata ;) but ...
I've been reading around and get the impression that it has no real 'rest period'. Is this correct?
The reason I ask is that I am about to clean out my fish tank (sorry terrarium) and I was thinking that maculata might be OK in there, year round. The idea was to make it more 'orchidy' as it is currently overflowing with CP's. I already have a few Orchids in there that will be growing mounted on branches and such (think display case rather than incubator) and was looking for new candidates. Would maculata be one?
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which Pleione this can be? it is from Gardenorchid ( Anthura?)
Pretty one. I can see humilis and yunnanensis genes.
I could be wrong, a remake of Pleione Lucey?
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Nova, it can be. But it is really disappointing that Gardenorchid/Anthura sell their Pleiones without any name :-(
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Johan - that's a really deep yellow forrestii you have there. Beautiful. Is that a true representation or has the camera or lighting enriched it?
That's the true colour.
I have the more paler Pleione forrestii too.
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Another Pleione 'Sirena'.
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And..... the flowering season in Denmark starts with Pleione Sirena
Regards Erling
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Another Pleione 'Sirena'.
Hi Johan
Is this picture true to the color. It seems that yours are more purple compare to mine.
Regards Erling
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Pleione humilis Bigu Gompa
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1611/25448994325_0a5e5e07c6_o_d.jpg)
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At last, pleione parade takes its first step, for me too, in North Yorkshire. This Wharfedale opened 12/2/16 and stayed open for 16 days. What will be next? For me it looks like Riah Shan, any day now...
John. By the way, I'm not being precious with the watermarked photo - it is because of some bother I've come across regarding photos used without permission on ebay - I know there's an old thread on this subject.
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Johan - that's a really deep yellow forrestii you have there. Beautiful. Is that a true representation or has the camera or lighting enriched it? My forrestii have always been much paler. Incidentally, I find forrestii to be very difficult to grow from year to year. I have some new stock (again!) - 6 pseudobulbs in all - which I am growing in 6cm depth live moss on a bark/moss/perlite substrate in a 30cm pond basket. The photos elsewhere on SRGC showing forrestii growing wild in China on a rock face in moss has inspired me to try again. The most I ever had was about 8-10 growing and flowering - also in moss. I found that a fluctuation in temperature (warming) seemed to cause - I think - rapid flower wilting and drop. And as I said I couldn't keep the stock going and within 4 years I hadn't one left. I'm aiming for better temperature control this time. Does anyone have any opinions? ???
Hello John
I have had the same problems with Pln forrestii. But I have now bought a clone sold as Pln forrestii 'Vietnam'. This one is as beautifull as the ordinary forrestii, but much more tolerant in culture.
Regards Erling
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Hello John
I have had the same problems with Pln forrestii. But I have now bought a clone sold as Pln forrestii 'Vietnam'. This one is as beautifull as the ordinary forrestii, but much more tolerant in culture.
Regards Erling
Thanks Erling for your advice - I'll look out for 'Vietnam' - I wonder if you know of a supplier who I can contact at the end of 2016?
Regards John
And here is today's reason for me to be cheerful - Riah Shan - which opened this morning.
[attach=2]
Riah Shan and Confirmation (from a bloom in December 2015) are the only two hybrids I have with Pln. maculata as a parent.
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Hello John
I have had the same problems with Pln forrestii. But I have now bought a clone sold as Pln forrestii 'Vietnam'. This one is as beautifull as the ordinary forrestii, but much more tolerant in culture.
Regards Erling
Hi John.
The question is, what is P. forrestii var. Vietnam? Firstly, it is NOT a clone! This name appeared in culture for the first time about 10 years ago with plants coming from Chen-Yi. It is a name for plants originating from North Vietnam. I’ve had many opportunities to see and grow these plants and they have all looked different. So P. forrestii ‘Vietnam’ is not a clone - they would have been all the same - eg. P. forrestii 'Buttercup' is a clone. I found, there is not a visible difference between Chinese and Vietnamese plants. The same it is about the cultivation. Habitats of both is same. Interesting is, that the Vietnamese plants often grow on mossy limestone rocks or cliffs. However it doesn’t mean that they require or tolerate calcium. I guess that the cultivation of P. forrestii is different from year to year and very depends from the conditions in a given year. For me work very well to grow them in a pond baskets in a life common moss (Pleurozium schreberi), not in sphagnum. See here: http://pleione.cz/popisy/obrazky/Pln.-forrestii-13.jpg (http://pleione.cz/popisy/obrazky/Pln.-forrestii-13.jpg)
Nice P. Riah Shan ;)
K.
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Hi
@ Karel. Thanks for correecting me. But I do have had problems growing Pleione forrestii during the years, but since I bought this "variant" they have flowered nicely every year from all bulbs and under the same conditions as the once I had before. But of course it could be a coincidence.
@ John. I bought Pleione forrrestii 'Vietnam' from David at Koolplants. And very nice Riah Shan, mine are late this year.
Actually forrestii is flowering right now, opend yesterday so it will gain a bit more color during the flowering periode. Also flowering yesterday is Pleione humilis.
Regards Erling
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Oddly, this year they all seem to be early for me, even though they're in the fridge, so I don't see what triggered them (except maybe that they entered dormancy early too because of a cold spell we had in mid september) ..
This morning, it's Pln. Glacier Peak
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Hi John.
The question is, what is P. forrestii var. Vietnam? Firstly, it is NOT a clone! This name appeared in culture for the first time about 10 years ago with plants coming from Chen-Yi. It is a name for plants originating from North Vietnam. I’ve had many opportunities to see and grow these plants and they have all looked different. So P. forrestii ‘Vietnam’ is not a clone - they would have been all the same - eg. P. forrestii 'Buttercup' is a complete lone. I found, there is not a visible difference between Chinese and Vietnamese plants. The same it is about the cultivation. Habitats of both is same. Interesting is, that the Vietnamese plants often grow on mossy limestone rocks or cliffs. However it doesn’t mean that they require or tolerate calcium. I guess that the cultivation of P. forrestii is different from year to year and very depends from the conditions in a given year. For me work very well to grow them in a pond baskets in a life common moss (Pleurozium schreberi), not in sphagnum. See here: http://pleione.cz/popisy/obrazky/Pln.-forrestii-13.jpg (http://pleione.cz/popisy/obrazky/Pln.-forrestii-13.jpg)
Nice P. Riah Shan ;)
K.
The Pleione forrestii Vietnam originating from myself have been grown from seed. I originally had 20 bulbs. Out of these, about 5 grew very well compared to others that slowly got smaller and smaller until they died. The 5 that grew well were pollinated and all my current forrestii var Vietnam are seed produced by these original plants. So yes they will be different clones as they are grown from seed of the selected strongest plants. 'Vietnam' is a group name not cultivar.
Flowering size bulbs do seem to be smaller in size than Chinese Pln. forrestii but this could just be based on my own experience and bulbs I've had in my collection.
The plants I've grown from seed do grow better but I select the strongest to pollinate and also only keep the strongest bulblets from the flasks. Due to the quantity I grow in flasks and lack of space, smaller weaker bulblets are thrown away when taken out of the flask.
My profile photo is one of the original plants.
Regards
David
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Interesting is, that the Vietnamese plants often grow on mossy limestone rocks or cliffs. However it doesn’t mean that they require or tolerate calcium. I guess that the cultivation of P. forrestii is different from year to year and very depends from the conditions in a given year. For me work very well to grow them in a pond baskets in a life common moss (Pleurozium schreberi), not in sphagnum. K
Karel - what you say clarifies what 'Vietnam' means and doesn't mean very clearly. My growth method is similar - the picture shows a 25cm pond basket. The roots will grow into an 8cm thick layer of a coarse and robust wood moss (I don't know the species but possibly a Brachythecium). The walls of the basket are also moss-lined (my hope is that this will help stabilise moisture content and temperature round the roots). The core of the basket is a mix of chopped moss, coarse perlite and potting bark. There are 8 new to me pseudobulbs from 2 sources. This basket was removed from the fridge 4 days ago and is now in a frost-free garage. I will not put it in my shaded greenhouse this time because the temperature fluctuates more greatly, even at this time of the year. When spring arrives it will go on a north facing table which is surfaced with capillary matting.
[attachimg=1]
The Pleione forrestii Vietnam originating from myself have been grown from seed. I originally had 20 bulbs. Out of these, about 5 grew very well compared to others that slowly got smaller and smaller until they died. The 5 that grew well were pollinated and all my current forrestii are seed produced by these original plants - David
However, reading what David says, it seems like the robustness or tolerance inherited through natural variance is just as important as - if not more so than - cultural technique. I live in hope! If, David, your little population retains any enhanced robustness into the future, then celebrations! I worry that hard-to-cultivate pleiones may otherwise fuel a demand that might, somewhere in the chain, be supplied by wild stock. (Mine are all - I sincerely hope - raised in Europe, though none of my current batch are the seed raised ones from Kool sadly!)
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They look a little lonely in there John. Need another 50 at least :-)
Unfortunately many of my bulbs were all over the bench this morning after a rat or two got in over night. No damage as such thankfully. Might have to change my user name to Rat Killer shortly.
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They look a little lonely in there John. Need another 50 at least :-
David
Yep... so if all goes well, lots of young'uns will quickly crowd up and fill the space! I'm still a basket half full kind of an optimist.
Failing that... ??? :'(
John
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David
Yep... so if all goes well, lots of young'uns will quickly crowd up and fill the space! I'm still a basket half full kind of an optimist.
Failing that... ??? :'( ... I know a man who can help?
These pleiones are a lot less lonely:
[attach=5]
Unfortunately many of my bulbs were all over the bench this morning after a rat or two got in over night.
Good luck with playing splat the rat. Mice (who had once made a nest in/with one of my boots) turfed some out once or twice, but a rogue blackbird did the biggest randomising mix-up a few years ago in the greenhouse, when it eyed up the most promising pots for worms (yes, my more expensive ones that I had lavished extra potting-up care upon with tempting long strands of live moss). The lesson learned was that I now only ever put my plentiful pleione hybrids (the ones in troughs or large pots) at ground level. The rest go higher.
[attach=3]
I also now have a greenhouse door insert made of a frame of chicken wire so that I can keep it ventilated but keep out larger unwanted guests (bumble bees still get access!)
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
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Sorry David - image loading problems, but here's what I meant to include:
1. Not so lonely pseudobulbs in process of being planted outside.
[attachimg=1]
2. The higher, the safer?
[attach=2]
3. Mr. Postman with his packages
[attach=3]
Regards - John
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Anyone ... but especially Karel.
Pln. Deriba has flowered and grown healthily now for 3 years for me. However, each year the petals are streaked. I fear the V-word, but if anything, the flower and pseudo-bulb size is better than ever this year.
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
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Hi John,
Your P. Deriba are really oddly looking. As I still repeat - these colour breaks can indicate a virus presence. However, without any tests we can't be sure. By my opinion and experience they are viral for 90%.
I've seen many P. Deriba and all had smoothly colour change on the petals from pink or apricot to yellow on the tip.
The second thing is, that these oddly looking flowers aren't nice and presentable.
You can try insert them into quarantine and change the conditions this year. If they will same looking next year, I'd recommend you to destroy them.
K.
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unidentified Pleione from GardenOrchid (Anthura?)
very nice lip with gorgeous papillae :)
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to me it looks like Pleione Kima (Pln. chunii x Pln. aurita)
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Pleione Sifaka, a variety of nice forms.
Pl. chunii x humilis. A dainty flower.
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Can anyone identify this rather ugly dull grub, which don't move much?
I have found several this year when repotting. They are always at the bottom of the pot, amongst the coarse pine bark drainage.
They don't appear to have caused any bulb damage.
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Beautiful Sifaka Steve - a lovely range of forms. How did you manage to acquire such a range? I really like '5 star' for its shape, but your final photograph - the pale amber-yellow form, is delicately lovely. Mine is interestingly marked, but a bit too slender for my liking.
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... Steve, and as for the grubs, it most reminds me of crane fly (tipula) grubs, or leather jackets, which are common enough in lawns where they cause damage by eating mainly grass roots, but can attack stems and roots of seedlings. They are quite fat and dull brown.
[attach=1]
Perhaps they were overwintering?
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to me it looks like Pleione Kima (Pln. chunii x Pln. aurita)
sjusovare, the lip is quite unlike those of chunii or aurita.
Any idea?
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another NOID Pleione from Gardenorchid
very nice, indeed
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"Beautiful Sifaka Steve - a lovely range of forms. How did you manage to acquire such a range? "
I received a batch of deflasked seedlings years ago, so lucky to get such a variety.
Pete.
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Pleione Alishan 'Mt. Fuji'
Pleione Britannia 'Doreen'
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Pleione Sifaka, a variety of nice forms.
Pl. chunii x humilis. A dainty flower.
Hi Pete
These Sifaka clones of yours are realy stunning, fantastic display. Mine will flower in a week or so, I think all my flowers are about 2 weeks later than last year.
Thanks for showing
Here in DK Pleione Lucey is fowering.
Regards Erling
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The finest yellow Pleione in my opinion - grandiflora (yellow) x Sirena.
First Edgecombe to flower.
2 more Sifaka flowers.
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A fine series Pete, that grandiflora x Sirena especially so 8)
Quite a pleione plantation you have going on there John ;) ;D
Eiger
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nice pleione!
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unidentified Pleione from Anthura (Dutch pleione)
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/18/35/74/96/dscf8412.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/18357496/2003)
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/18/35/74/96/dscf8413.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/18357496/2004)
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/18/35/74/96/dscf8414.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/18357496/2005)
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Lovely Pleiones yannsavoie.
It is such a shame that Anthura are selling such excellent hybrids with no name / parentage.
Pete.
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yes sure !
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I've wondered for which reasons they sell their plants without a name or parentage, and I could think of only 3 possible reasons:
1) They may not know themselves the parentage of the plants they sell, having bought either the mother plants or the seedling from not-so-reliable sources (remember they specialise in phalaenopsis reproduced by meristem by the million, sold under commercial names they gave them which have nothing to do with the official nomenclature and more with trademarks, and in anthurium... It's very well possible they just bulk buy young pleiones, considering that you can sometimes see different pleiones in the same pot, at least on those sold here...)
2) They may be in the process of registering those crosses and do not want someone to register those before them ("industrial secret")
3) Preventing further hybridation work based on theirs; no parentage nor name means you cannot register further crosses made using their plants as parents (intellectual property forbidding derivative work)
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or it's plants that already exists and it does not name them for not problem
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or it's plants that already exists and it does not name them for not problem
Doubtfull, registering a cross does not give you any commercial exclusivity for it, in short, it only gives you the right to give it a name, but everyone can still sell it or use it (it's not a copyright)
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Hi all
Pleione xconfusa 'Blankenburg' is flowering in DK right now.
Regards Erling
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Nice xconfusa Erling :)
All your pictures this year make me really feel the need to restock my collection for next year... of the few pseudobulbs I managed to recover after the greenhouse flew away last february, only Glacier Peak was flowering size :(
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Hello sjusovare
Thanks for the nice comment.
Terrible to loose ones collection to bad weather. Once I lost around 150 dendrobiums and some 100 bulbophyllum due to -6 C for a weekend. It takes a long time to recover. I have always told me self, that now it's the end with orchids... and then I find out that I'm an addict :D :D ;D.
So now it is Pleione ...... and yesterday also Coelogyne. I just love my plants.
Good luch with building up your collection again. Maybe it's a bit late this spring, but there will be another autum ;-D
Regards Erling
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il faut vraiment que je me trouve un vrais x confusa , il manque dans ma serre
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it really that I am a true x confusa is missing in my greenhouse
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Pleione forrestii -a clone from Vietnam
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1465/25822359451_69e2d6bc6e_o.jpg)
Pleione humilis
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1487/25288585743_d923d71af1_o.jpg)
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Pleione forrestii -the first another clone from Vietnam. The last two are different semi-alba forms:
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1655/25288630453_97834bdbe7_o.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1563/25891451766_7e9cce74dc_o.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1703/25796575512_fa2b61f072_o.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1541/25288629043_09f922f589_o.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1487/25284638744_0838dde4c2_o.jpg)
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P. krakatoa just in flower, img 1010098.
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I've wondered for which reasons they sell their plants without a name or parentage, and I could think of only 3 possible reasons:
1) They may not know themselves the parentage of the plants they sell, having bought either the mother plants or the seedling from not-so-reliable sources (remember they specialise in phalaenopsis reproduced by meristem by the million, sold under commercial names they gave them which have nothing to do with the official nomenclature and more with trademarks, and in anthurium... It's very well possible they just bulk buy young pleiones, considering that you can sometimes see different pleiones in the same pot, at least on those sold here...)
2) They may be in the process of registering those crosses and do not want someone to register those before them ("industrial secret")
3) Preventing further hybridation work based on theirs; no parentage nor name means you cannot register further crosses made using their plants as parents (intellectual property forbidding derivative work)
How about they just don't care to register?
Anthura know the parentage very well. They make so may hybrids each year they can't and won't find the time to register each cross. As Nic van der Knaap explained to me it's pointless. Jan Moors from Albiflora also doesn't care to register hybrids and cultivars.
We shouldn't be bothered about names and just enjoy the beauty of the flowers.
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We shouldn't be bothered about names and just enjoy the beauty of the flowers.
It is very interesting opinion Nova, however I can't identify with that. I know that is comming the time when companies such Anthura will produce thousands of nameless hybrids of Pleione, as we can see nowadays with Phalaenopsis. By my opinion the plants shered here are nothing exceptional and by me they are a little below average compared to Ian's or Paul's crossings. For collecting are NO-NAMES almost worthless, although they can be very beautiful. ;)
K.
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Purists like to have parentage. But remains a beautiful flower a beautiful flower.
To plant breeders have a name on selected plants is a kind of consecration for the work
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It's not only purist actually, and more than a name, it's the parentage that we like to have.
Jan Moors indeed doesnt registers his crosses, but on his lists on his site, he always sells them with the parentage.
Without it, it just becomes a commercial good like those generic supermarket phalaenopsis sold by millions (and if those have greatly reduced the price of phalaenopsis, the quality also has decreased by as much, but who cares, it's just a throwable generic decoration stuff...) add to this that almost no breeder even bother working on improving phalaenopsis anymore, it's just not worth the work considering the prices, and that the "cloned by millions" also introduced a huge vulnerability to viruses which was not present in the original populations found in collections.
Coming back to pleiones, the main problem I find with the plants originally sold by this company (and resold in our garden centers under the name "garden orchid") is that it is a big lotterie, some will grow well, the next pot -bought the same day at the same place under the same label- willl be very weak, you cannot trust the coloring nor the behavior, and I even had several different flowers in the same package, adding to this that the price on which it is resold is quite expensive for a nameless clone while there are lots of identified plants which are cheaper and reliable in terms of colour and behavior.
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Very true. Also, in my experience, orchids that have been pushed very hard to produce larger than average bulbs usually do not do so well the year after.
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So there you go friends, Anthura is indeed a commercial company.
You love their Pleiones or you don't. Like always in life we have choices ;D
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Lhasa 'Blushes', formosana x chunii, Piton 'Sering' and Koolplant's best clone from 1000's grandiflora.
Last picture is a mysterious cross I received as a gift labeled "for x T021". I believe I can see aurita genes, others think about scopulorum.
Whatever the parentage may be it's not bad at all.
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They are all lovely! Perhaps it is better to have no name than to have the wrong name, eh? :)
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You're right Maggi :D
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I suppose there are only so many colour combinations then we get repeats, as in roses.
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Hi Johan
Is this picture true to the color. It seems that yours are more purple compare to mine.
Regards Erling
Hello Erling,
A little bit late.
It's the true color. In reply 20 you see another Pleione 'Sirena' that i have.
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Pleione 'Captain Hook'
Pleione Krakatoa 'Wheatear'
Pleione Rakata' Redwing'
Pleione 'Salek'
Pleione 'Zeus Weinstein'
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And a few Pleione from my end of the world. All of them are a bit late this year, but now the spring has realy started.
And for the discussion on named or unnamed Pleione. I like very much to have at least the parents of the clone and if possible also a name. The thing for me is, that I like to grow Pleione as a hobby and I am also a collection man. With all these new hybrids that are send in to the market, the collection part of it seems to fade away. To me that is loosing part of the hobby. But as Nova says, some of the new hybrids are nice and some look .... awful.
But I have some....
Regards Erling
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and a few more
Regards Erling
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Some time ago the labels of many of my spring flowering Pleiones got mixed up and therefore I need to identify this one. What do you think, can it be Glacier Peak? Unfortunately the flower didn't open properly.
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grandifloras
A near pure white alongside a yellow throated pair.
(I hadn't meant to have the white in there! But it makes a nice comparison).
At least there are no worries about parentage with these!
[attachimg=1]
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New bloom this week Pleione forrestii ((Light color of the lack of light I think)
(http://i86.servimg.com/u/f86/18/35/74/96/dscf8420.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/18357496/2023)
(http://i86.servimg.com/u/f86/18/35/74/96/dscf8421.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/18357496/2024)
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Pleione Volcanello ‘Honey Buzzard’
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I bought this pleione at a nursery/garden centre yesterday(not sure of the difference these days) for £3.99. It was in a tray of about 50 pleione, they all looked the same. Some P. forrestii in the parentage. The problem is, buying from an unknown source could be introducing pests or disease. There was no indication of a name either but a good looking plant for the price. img. 1010179.
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Hi
Perfect time a year for Pleione
Regards Erling
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and a few more.
Have a nice weekend all
Erling
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Hi, I went to the London Orchid Show yesterday, re-named as a sub-set of the RHS Spring Plant Extravaganza (daffodils, other bulbs and, oh yes, alpines). The latter took up the New Hall while the orchids were relegated to the smaller hall. Fewer exhibitors, fewer nice plants for sale, lots of the unnamed pleione multitudes on pots, hardly any good pleiones for sale (I stopped exhibiting ;) ;) but that's not the only reason). Sign of the times, I guess, sicut transit gloria mundi...
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New bloom this week Pleione forrestii ((Light color of the lack of light I think)
Hi yannsavoie,
How long do you grow these plants, did you see their flowers last year? I'm not sure, that this pale colour is due to lack of light. I think this could be the pale clone.
K.
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Some of my new Pleione flowering for the first time for me. img. 1010188 is Shantung Christine. img. 1010189 is Michael Butterfield. img. 1010190 is Shantung Ducat. img. 1010191 is Doreen.
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A quick question ...
My forrestii is growing out of the top of last years PB. Should I change its growing conditions now, while it has no roots, or just leave it alone and see what happens?
I have lots of options but the one I might try is wrapping the PB in 'wood moss'. Suggestions on a postcard.
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Hud357: re forrestii
Last year (and this) I had some very large Marion Johnson pseudo-bulbs, some of which flowered directly from the top of the PB. Roots snaked out from across the top of the bulb. I covered the top of the bulb with moss which allowed the roots to penetrate the compost, but these growths made only modestly sized new PBs. (Perhaps they didn't get the water they required or roots were damaged)
The photo is not an example of such a bulb - I didn't photograph them because the PBs looked knobbly and unpleasing to the eye! This example is a single 4cm diameter pseudo-bulb. Double flowered scapes are not unusual.
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Very excited to hear that Forrest Medal at SRGC Edinburgh Show has gone to Jane and Alan Thompson, a pair of very good growers from the Edinburgh SRGC Group - it's their first Forrest! They have won with a super potful of Pleione 'Doreen' . It was also awarded a First class Certificate and a Cultural Commendation from the @RHS joint rock garden plant committee - What a triple whammy for their first Forrest! Well done Jane and Alan!
Photo is by Alan Gardner
[attachimg=1]
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Pleione forrestii
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Roma, that's perfection in a pot. Well done. :)
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Thanks, Maren. No skill on my part. I bought it in April 2011. The flower had aborted then but it has flowered every year since. No increase but there is a half sized pseudobulb in the pot so maybe two flowers in a couple of years time.
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New to me - and in praise of Ian Butterfield's breeding - I want to share an image of Sabatini. What a colour!
[attach=1]
In addition I really like how the yunnanesis genes make Piton stand up, and don't do any harm in making Snow Monkey.
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
Finally, at last after several patient years - a decent bunch of Shantung Ducats.
[attach=4]
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Impressive color on this Sabatini... I didn't see it on Ian Butterfield's catalogue :(
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Sandy Leven's Forrest Medal Report from Edinburgh on the lovely pot of Peloine Britannia Doreen grown by Jane and Alan Thompson is now online HERE (http://files.srgc.net/Showreports/ForrestEdinburgh2016.pdf) :)
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Thank you Maggi for posting the Edinburgh Forrest Medal report. Not only is it a great celebration of the growers' abilities with a wonderful potful, it's also a fascinating summary of early breeding. Well worth reading. Rule Britannia!
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John Grimshaw has been visiting Ian Butterfield and blogging about it: http://johngrimshawsgardendiary.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/ian-butterfields-pleione-nursery.html?spref=tw (http://johngrimshawsgardendiary.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/ian-butterfields-pleione-nursery.html?spref=tw)
John mentions his pleione being struck down by "the mite Phytoseiulus" in the 90s - but are these not a beneficial predatory mite used to tackle red spider mite? I think he may mean Brevipalpus oncidii ??
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Julien -
Yes indeed, it's true that Sabatini was not in Ian Butterfield's catalogue, but I am very glad that I managed to get hold of it. It is my current favourite!
Can you spot it among this collection currently in my kitchen? It isn't difficult really with a colour like that.
[attachimg=1]
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Is it the selection 'Forest Canary' or an unselected Sabatini?
Alex
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Maggi,
I'm sure you're right, it's got to be Brevipalpus oncidii, the only real killer of pleione. Someone else made that comment on his website. Being a self confessed pedant, I also found a spelling error in a pleione name which should be P. Krafla 'Kimi'.
Very nice article though, and the picture of Ian's nursery is so true to life; you open the door and just want to stand there, catch your breath and let the view make a lasting impression on your soul.
If you like it you should all come and visit Ian, I'm sure he wouldn't mind if he had some notice. A good friend of mine drove down from Glasgow on Friday, gave a talk at my local (Thames Valley Orchid Society), spent half of Saturday at Ian's and drove home a happy man. He might have made the odd purchase or two but I didn't pry. :) :)
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Thanks Maren. Yes, I saw that someone had also mentioned it on John's Blog comments the next day - no sign of a reply from John there or on his facebook post where I had made the point earlier - I'm sure it's a mistake though.
Ben, the husband of Paddy Parmee of Hampshire AGS group visited Ian Butterfield last week and the photos from his visit were lovely too. I'll ask Paddy and Ben if they mind me sharing some here.
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Ben and Paddy Parmee are both committee members of the Hampshire AGS Group - very keen plantspeople, both of them! Ben thoroughly enjoyed his visit to Ian Butterfield's the other day and has kindly allowed me to share some of the photos here ...
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
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more from Ben's visit to Ian Butterfield
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
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and again......
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
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two more ....
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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So beautiful!
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Is it the selection 'Forest Canary' or an unselected Sabatini?
Alex
Hi Alex - Sabatini was supplied to me as just that 'Sabatini' with no varietal name. You gave a variety name, but in fact I've been unable to find ANY information about this grex. Which varieties do you know of? I saw a photo on this website of Sabatini taken in Ian's greenhouse by Karel, which looks like the one I have, but Karel didn't indicate a variety name either. It's a gorgeous plant which I hope will prove to be a decent multiplier - and if it doesn't have a variety name, it deserves one! Does any one know?
OOPS! Just noted mislabeled photo below. IT SHOULD of course be labeled Sabatini.
[attachimg=1]
On a different note, I've been a bit more attentive with the camera this spring and have come to realise more fully how much the colour can change over time. The following pics of Krakatoa Wheatear, taken 10 days apart, show how much purple comes through as it ages.
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
Once more: the fussy 'owned by' on the photos is simply because of some hijacking by an unscrupulous ebay seller.
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Hi John,
I visited Ian a couple of times in the last few months. I persuaded him to part with a Sabatini, and he showed me his stocks, which were the unselected grex and a single selected clone named 'Forest Canary'. I took a Forest Canary, and it is very beautiful, but I am struck (and again on visiting last week and seeing all Sabatini in flower) that this cross has a remarkably uniform outcome, so all Sabatini including FC looked pretty much the same! So, my plant is very, very similar to your plant...
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Btw, Maggi or anyone else, can you confirm that the first in the group of images from Ian's nursery is P. Makian 'Jenny'? Or have I got that wrong?
Cheers
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Sorry Alex, I can't help.
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Btw, Maggi or anyone else, can you confirm that the first in the group of images from Ian's nursery is P. Makian 'Jenny'? Or have I got that wrong?
Cheers
Hi Alex,
Because it is on the bench with his news, I guess it is P. Pete Chew. Makian 'Jenny' has a little bit darker petals. I'll tell you next week ;)
K.
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Thanks, Karel!
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And here are some more pleiones which have opened in the past week.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
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... and some more which have opened since the last few I posted.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
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... and the last few.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
Finally... If any of you are like me, from time to time I end up with some dropped-on-the-floor pseudobulbs whose identity I can't be sure of. So for the last couple of years I've used a hanging basket full of bark and moss (and now Wood Sorrel as well) into which I put spare misfits. They stay outside from April to November, then stand in the greenhouse over winter. I don't remove them from the basket. They do get some weak Tomorite occasionally in August and September. They seem to be quite happy and healthy (though last night's hail knocked some of them about a bit!).
[attachimg=4]
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All so pretty- but what a super combination the basket with the wood sorrel makes with the Pleiones! - I love that!
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Btw, Maggi or anyone else, can you confirm that the first in the group of images from Ian's nursery is P. Makian 'Jenny'? Or have I got that wrong?
Cheers
Hi Alex, So, I'm ready to confirm this plant as P. Pete Chew ;)
Ian's greenhouse have been the best this year, what I remember. Ian won't show at Malvern this year, so all his plants are on the benches in full flowering. Really stunning!!!
Here is the new hybrid ready to registration this year - P. Philip Cribb.
K.
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Nice pictures John. As Maggi, I love your basket ;)
K.
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Thanks, Karel. I like the new hybrid very much! I guess parents won't be divulged until it's registered?
Ian's display is impressive indeed this year.
Alex
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Thanks, Karel. I like the new hybrid very much! I guess parents won't be divulged until it's registered?
Hi Alex, The parents are known for me, however I've no permit to publish them.
K.
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Hi Alex,
So, I've just checked the RHS Orchid Register and Ian's news are already registered, so I can divulged, that P. Phillib Cribb is P. Betty Arnold x P. Whakari.
K.
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I'm also able to share with you several next Ian's just registered hybrids:
P. Isabela (P. x confusa x P. Salek),
P. Kadovar (P. Salek x P. grandiflora),
P. Tyler Want (P. Suswa x P. Krafla) and
P. Victoria (P. Iris Butterfield x P. grandiflora).
Enjoy! ;D
K.
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I'm so envious of your visit Karel.
What a treat and thank you for posting the pictures. It's nice to see the fruits of Ian's continued striving for a strong, true red - Philip Crib is a worthy addition. The others are all interesting and beautiful too.
P. Victoria (P. Iris Butterfield x P. grandiflora) reminded me a little of P. Bromo (yunnanensis x confusa) when it first opens - which got me wondering...
[attachimg=1]
Digging a little deeper, P. Iris Butterfield is a cross of P. forrestii x P. x confusa, so P. x confusa is in Bromo and Iris Butterfield.
And am I right in thinking that P. x confusa is a cross of P. albiflora x forrestii... so P. forrestii is in the mix on both sides as well. I guess that P. yunnanensis contributes the faint pink blush in Bromo. I find it fascinating to see the attributes of parents (or grandparents) resurfacing in the descendants.
On that note, I acquired Pleione Kima this year, and was interested to compare it with the parents, which I also grow. Kima opened this week for me. Here are all 3 together:
[attachimg=2]
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No fantastic flowers to show (very impressed by what I've seen so far) but I thought that this might encourage folk to help out beginners wherever possible ...
(mainly directed at stevec2) ...
Your advice last season was well received. I grabbed some mature bulbs from e-bay and, while I'm still wearing my 'L' plates ...
Go me ...
(http://hud357.homenet.org/orch/pleione.jpg)
Remember that last year I had 'chives' before asking around ...
(http://hud357.homenet.org/orch/pleochive.jpg)
What a difference some good advice and time makes.
If I hadn't seen the flowers then I might figure that I had purchased bamboo by mistake.
(wrong thread alert) Mr Monocotman ... My Cyp has gone from two noses to six so thank you too.
I rest my case concerning good advice.
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I know it's a classical, but I still really like this clone of Pleione Tongarino...
...Which is almost impossible to capture in picture due to the mirror effect its petals seem to have (and unfortunately, the white extremities still do not appear as clearly here as they do in reality)
[attachimg=1]
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Hi Karel,
nice of you to post pictures of Ian Butterfield's new hybrids. He tells me that Tyler Want should be Terry Want, but that's just a minor detail.
I hope you enjoyed your visit and I am sorry I missed you this year. Ian's greenhouse was indeed a wonderful sight and I was fortunate to visit him many times. What a grower!!
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He tells me that Tyler Want should be Terry Want, but that's just a minor detail.
Hi Maren,
You are right about Terry Want, however in RHS register is stated the name Tyler Want. I know that Ian's labeled this hybrid as Terry - maybe RHS goblin ;D.
It's a shame, we didn't meet this spring, so maybe next time ;).
K.
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It will be the last of the season for me... but not least :)
Pleione Nyiarongo
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
This clone comes from Ian Butterfield's cross (the one he made before G. Bergel but did not considere special enough to deserve being registered)
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Julien - well taken photographs and a nice way to say goodbye to your pleione season. I find the numerous frills along the edge of the lip very interesting.
P. Nyiarongo is the result of P. aurita x P. coronaria. I grow aurita:
[attach=1]
The lip edge is not so strongly fringed as P. Nyiarongo .
Looking at the male side of seed parentage, P. coronaria, the lip edge is even smoother.
I refer to any of Paul Cumbleton's photos: http://www.pleione.info/pleione-species-gallery-a---h.html (http://www.pleione.info/pleione-species-gallery-a---h.html)
So the frilliness of the edge of the lip in P. Nyiarongo appears to be stronger than either parent... Interesting!
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I have a couple of Nyiarongo in flower at the moment, much darker in colour than Julien's but with same lips. Right up there with my favourites.
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While Julijen will finish his season soon, I have the main season now here in Czech :D
Several of just flowered.
K.
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Pleione grandiflora -two different forms:
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7179/26259761564_9324a23725_o.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7664/26259760984_b45f55e658_o.jpg)
Pleione coronaria
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7619/26355140953_750e79e96f_o.jpg)
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My first self-made hybrid opened
forrestii x yunnanensis
I pollinated and sowed this cross in 2013 and I prepared to wait for 4 years to see the result but this one just opened unexpectedly in hundreds of seedlings ！
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My first self-made hybrid opened
forrestii x yunnanensis
I pollinated and sowed this cross in 2013 and I prepared to wait for 4 years to see the result but this one just opened unexpectedly in hundreds of seedlings ！
Wow! If the flowers remain so small and neat it will really be fabulous - small and perfectly formed!
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Wow! If the flowers remain so small and neat it will really be fabulous - small and perfectly formed!
The small flower probably results from a small pseudobulb. As you see, only 3 years’ growth from seed is not enough to produce a flower-sized pseudobulb, not to mention a big-flower one.
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It is a bit impatient ;D, however nice P. Krakatoa ;)
K.
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Pleione x barbarae -I have a number of examples of this natural hybrid which are highly variable. In China it seems to exist in a bewildering array of forms as a result of "hybrid swarms" yet none of the other natural hybrids seem to have such variation. Are these all Pln. grandiflora hybrids and if so with what?
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7505/26865351985_146f28f94a_o.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7382/26865351145_cb1e9c555c_o.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7324/26865352325_8b3218c7d3_o.jpg)
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Steve,
Pleione x barbarae is a primary hybrid of P. grandiflora x P. bulbocodioides. It is highly variable. It is also sometimes called the 'pink grandiflora', but I don't particularly like that naming because it implies that this is a pure grandiflora, which it isn't.
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Thanks Maren.
But why is x barbarae so variable when the other natural hybirds are not?
It seems to exist in numerous forms in the wild yet x taliensis, x confusa, x lagenaria, etc are so invariable in comparison.
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Thanks Maren.
But why is x barbarae so variable when the other natural hybirds are not?
It seems to exist in numerous forms in the wild yet x taliensis, x confusa, x lagenaria, etc are so invariable in comparison.
I think the variability comes from the backcross with the parents and the cross between the F1 generation while other natural hybrid may just F1 generation individuals
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The fact that both parents are highly variable might account to the variability of the hybrid as well.
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This is really very interesting problem about P. x barbarae. If you look for the distribution of P. grandiflora, you will see that this species is situated in South and South-East Yunnan. P. bulbocodioides is located in Sichuan, East Tibet, ... and North Yunnan. Also the vertical spreading is different. While P. bulbocodioides is spreaded between altitude 900 - 2500 m ASL, so P. grandiflora is in 2700 m ASL. So the connecting line is really very thin.
On the other hand P. grandiflora shares the place with P. yunnanensis. So I'm convinced, there must be many hybrids between P. grandiflora and P. yunnanensis too ;).
K.
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Karel, I am glad that you also have problems with x barbarae. The orthodox view frequently repeated is that grandiflora and bulbocodioides are the parents and yet, as you point out there is a poor natural distribution correlation between these two species. I can't help but think that wild x barbarae material is not a single "taxon" but may encompass a number of natural hybrids.
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I can't help but think that wild x barbarae material is not a single "taxon" but may encompass a number of natural hybrids.
Steve, I can only agree with you.
K.
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Langur, (scopulorum x forrestii) flowering for the first time for me. A nice small flower.
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Langur, (scopulorum x forrestii) flowering for the first time for me. A nice small flower.
the forrestii gene seems weaker than the scopulorum's
By the way, I wonder the hybrids are one-leaved or two-leaved?
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Hi Peter,
that's very pretty.
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Hello Maren - hope you're having a lovely birthday!
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Hi Maggi,
thank you, that's very thoughtful and much appreciated.
I've had a very interesting day, especially when I left my keys in the greenhouse after locking it from the outside. I thought I'd left a duplicate set with the owners, but that was not forthcoming. I was faced with having to break a window to get in; didn't fancy that so tried and succeeded climbing in through the vent. It was a tight squeeze but gave me a real sense of achievement. The owner and his gardener stood by to give me moral support. Tomorrow I'll get a spare set of keys... ;)
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Crikey, Maren - I was hoping you'd be having an exciting day - but that's not what I had in mind! :o
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Pleione scopulorum Selene -a semi-alba selection.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7420/27464247496_641e49c156_o.jpg)
Pleione hookeriana
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7038/27399700192_4058fa50d2_o.jpg)
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Steve, you always have facinating pictures!
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Last Hurrah...
Well it is for me anyway.
The first photo is really for any of you wondering about growing outside.This is a 6 inch raised bed of lets say 80% bark plus compost and coarse perlite. These were planted in January, but under a polythene cover, open at both ends, which was removed early April. They are in a wire cage (cats / squirrels / blackbirds.... mainly the latter).
They were planted as small pseudobulbs last year. Last year 2 or 3 flowered, so this display is one year on. The first few opened near the end of April , the 1st photo was taken the 3rd week in May - a handful are still in flower. I will lift and dry off in late October, then store in the shed until next Spring. The aspect is south facing, but partly shaded by trees and with some shade netting on the roof. I live about 200 metres from the North Sea, so get some salt. Summers are rarely hot. They dont get much horticultural care to be honest, except for some occasional weak tomato fertiliser from late summer, plenty of water when in full leaf if it's dry - and if I'm there.
They are Pln. Stromboli 'fireball' - and apologies I just can't get the right shade of magenta in the photo.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
The last pleiones to open for me have been pln. Fuego, a couple of weeks ago a late chunii threw up 5 flowers from one massive 'bulb' (thanks Maren), and last of all pleionoides 'yunnan?' has opened this week - later than last year by 2 weeks.
Ah well - another year almost over....
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Oh! My goodness me! What a super display!
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Oh! My goodness me! What a super display!
+1 :o
John, I hope your coronaria and albiflora are equally enjoying life ;) ;D 8)
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Super !!!!!
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Waw, fantastic display.
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What a display!!! Congratulations 'Fireball' is one of my favourites. Unfortunately it is not hardy in DK - have tried several times.
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Thanks all for your kind words folks!
Lars B. - I doubt if many Fireballs would survive a full winter here either - if wet.
I plant in a top layer of pure 100% potting bark, which is quite dry, I provide a roof to keep rain and frost off.
It's true however that coastal Yorkshire rarely drops below -5 degrees in winter.
And as for Fireball - it's still one of my favourites too.
The photograph doesnt show it, but no other (of the 100 or so varieites I grow) is in my opinion quite so intensely coloured.
I started with ONE pseudo bulb more years ago than I care to remember.
For years I grew in pure ordinary potting compost!!! So it's a VERY forgiving friend.
[attachimg=1]
Merry 2017 all!!! ;D
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early praecox
This clone seems to open much earlier than normal ones
Their leaves are still green.
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Hello all
Last year I bought some bulbils of the assumed species Pleione gracilis. Are there any news about this one. I seem to remember that I have read something about it years ago here at srgc, but can not find anything. Anyone can help me.
Regards Erling
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the name Pleione gracilis is not listed on IPNI
http://www.ipni.org/ipni/plantnamesearchpage.do (http://www.ipni.org/ipni/plantnamesearchpage.do)
I suppose Pleione gracilis is not a scientific name
Hello all
Last year I bought some bulbils of the assumed species Pleione gracilis. Are there any news about this one. I seem to remember that I have read something about it years ago here at srgc, but can not find anything. Anyone can help me.
Regards Erling
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Thanks vigor
I think I read an article back in the past, that it should not yet be a recognized species yet, but that it might some time in the future be a separate species. I seems to remember that is should be a something close to Pleione limprictii. But can not remember from where or for who I got the story.
Any way, the autumn season has started in DK with:
Pleione x lagenaria (from a reliable source ;) ;) ;))
Pleione Confirmation (also a reliable soruce ;D)
Pleione Slender Loris
Regards Erling
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Hi
A few more autumn flowering Pleione flowering.
Regards Erling
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Pleione Macaque (Pln. saxicola x Pln. forrestii - P Cumbleton - 2009)
I find this an interesting hybrid, since it is only the third hybrid having Pleione saxicola as a parent. I love Pleione saxicola but are really not very god at growing it. They have a tendency to grow smaller over the years. This hybrid has grown really well from one to three new bulbs.
Erling
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Four times Pleione praecox.
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Indian Summer with the Pleiones. The first one among my autumn flowering ones is P. Liz Shan 'Pretty Girl'. Eight flowers out of two bulbs having originated from one bulb I received by Mr. Schreiner, Germany.
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Hello Uli! Eight flowers from two bulbs is very good, eh?
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does praecox (and the hybrids) need a higher winter temperature, if so, what temperature?
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It really depends on the clone.
Most seem to be quite happy being treated like regular pleiones, however, I've had a clone a decade ago which was almost constantely in growth and seemed to thrive treated as a tropical epiphyte (like my maculata)
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thanks Julien! I may give it a try
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Tiny bulbils.
Some varieties yield more than others from the leaf scar at the top of the pseudo bulb, but I've never seen so many on one bulb as on this pleione chunii:
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Now asking for advice...
This year I attempted to grow-on some new-to-me tiny bulbils of Iris Butterfield 'Yaffles'. I planted them into fine bark and a little moss and by April they were outside on a damp north facing bench. They didn't die but they have only made the same number of identically tiny bulbils. I.e. - no further forward! I applied occasional very weak tomato feed. I'd be interested in what anyone might advise if they have success with the more tricky bulbils to grow on.
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does praecox (and the hybrids) need a higher winter temperature, if so, what temperature?
I grow my praecox together with maculata and saxicola and hybrids of these. During winter they never go below 13-15 C. They grow very well and multiply nicely.
During summer I keep them in unheated green house and the rest of my springflowering outside in the garten on a frame system.
Works for me.
Regards Erling
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Two of the loveliest forms of Pleione praecox flowering today, the alba and the reichenbachiana. Their scent is an added bonus.
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Paul, that alba clone is exquisite! Now you've given me a difficult task- finding one in Canada!
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Wow Paul, the alba is unreal! What a stunning layout of the flowers. Well done!
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I love the white, I might get one this year.
something totally unrelated, has someone tried to use rockwool as a pot (I mean, putting bark in a hole inside a block of rockwool) in order to mount their pleiones?
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Very beautiful praecox clones, especially the alba. I bought one two years ago, but I have never flowered it. It has been grown backwards and become smaller every year. I have grown it together with my other praecox clones and they have developed very nicely.
So Paul, what's the trick with the alba-clone ???
Regards Erling
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Hi Erling,
I wish I had a definite answer to your question! I have had this plant for 10 years now and after all that time it has slowly increased to.....2 bulbs! While it has flowered every year for me, for many of the 10 years mine too was growing poorly and getting smaller. Ian Butterfield has the same clone and seems to do a lot better with it. He has always kept his warmer than mine were. After moving house last year, I kept the alba in a much warmer position indoors for the winter along with my maculatas and as you can see from my photo it has grown much better this year (as have my maculatas). So perhaps temperature is the key? - hard to say after just one year but I shall definitely keep it warmer again this winter and see what happens next year. The clone originates from Thailand, so perhaps this too would suggest more warmth. The Chinese praecox seem fine at "normal" pleione temperatures, but these more southerly ones perhaps need a different regime.
Your plants are almost certainly offspring from mine. A few years ago I self-pollinated the alba (as I do not have a different clone to cross pollinate with) and supplied seed to Camiel de Jong (Anthura Nursery who do all the Cypripediums). He successfully grew bulbs from this and supplied stock to several nurseries in Europe. I guess pretty much all the praecox alba that have been available in the past two or three years originated in this way (as well as the reichenbachiana types which I also gave him seed from, though many others of this type have been entering the trade from Thailand). So as I said, yours are almost certainly the same as mine and so if you treat them as suggested (more warmth), hopefully they may improve. It is possible too that being offspring from a selfing that they could be weaker plants generally. The selfings however have also grown a lot better for me this year.
Having said it seems to want more heat, it is worth noting that I do keep it out in the greenhouse in the summer and I leave it there usually until the flowers start opening. This is because I find that if kept cooler while the buds develop, the flowers stay the wonderful pristine white as in my first picture. Kept warmer at this time and you can get some pink speckling showing - as in the picture below
I hope that we all manage to grow this alba better in future - it is one of the most beautiful of all the Pleione in my opinion and it would be such a shame to lose it from cultivation.
Does anyone else have one and how does your grow?
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I also grow Pleione praecox alba. My original pseudobulb came from Camiel de Jong via Christian Schreiner.
I grow it on a west-facing bathroom window (min temp is rarely below 10C) in a very mossy mix. I now have two good-sized pseudobulbs which have two growths each.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5561/30116556353_3663007c80_o.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5591/30116556973_19fa06b254_o.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5518/30119946794_36e5d56068_o.jpg)
I struggle to accept that praecox alba and praecox var. reichenbachiana are simply varieties of praecox. Apart from differences in flower appearance the pseudobulbs look very different. Praecox alba has rounded symmetrical pale green pseudobulbs of moderate size whilst Var. reichenbachiana produces large (huge) dark warty purplish asymmetric pseudobulbs.
I have var. reichenbachiana from two different sources. The most vigorous again originates from Camiel de Jong whilst the other is apparently derived from a source originally imported labelled as Pln. vietnamensis (I have no detailed knowledge of its provenance). The first image below is of the "vietnamensis" clone whilst the remainder are of the other more vigorous clone which has produced huge pseudobulbs -one has six flowers and 3 new growth points. Please ignore the fuzzy coat on the pseudobulb image which is derived from fluffy bathroom towels -have you ever tried to use a Dyson on a pleione? ;)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5779/30451426720_f226e3b0d4_o.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5465/30451453920_661314678d_o.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5720/30635248042_a610cf922b_o.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5522/30635248352_172bf0a2da_o.jpg)
.....and for completeness here is the pseudobulb of the "vietnamensis":
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5504/30451427270_33cac809c7_o.jpg)
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I grow my praecox sligtly colder - down to 10 degres Celsius and that seems to suit them fine. I don't have alba or reichenbachiana yet - ( Erling has not yet made them multiply :) ), but I have a couple of clones and even the Thai one, which one should assume would like more heat, do well with the low temparatures. I think i will try with one of them along with the maculata in hte windowsill and see what happens.
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To keep the Autumn Pleione momentum going, here are P. praecox and P. Macaque 'Erratic', which I really like. Excuse the iPhone photos please!
I am another who grows the Schreiner P. praecox alba with rather poor results, and I give it quite a lot of heat as I grow it in the Paphiopedilum section with a minimum of about 15C. It just doesn't seem very vigorous, which I've always assumed is a result of being selfed/inbred, as Paul suggests. I'd love to do better, as it is beautiful.
Alex
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Hi Paul, regarding the white P. praecox, it would be interesting to know Camiel propagated the plants to produce them in such quantities so quickly that he was able to supply several nurseries. Was it:
- from seed, which takes a long time and produces variable results ins smallish quantities or
- using tissue culture, which produces identical offspring quite quickly and in huge quantities.
Ian Butterfield has a theory that tissue culture propagated offspring has weakened growth characteristics. That might explain why your clones are so shy in multiplying.
Have you had any thoughts on this? and do you know what method Camiel uses?
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Hi Maren,
I supplied Camiel with seed which he sowed in 2007. I think it was 2013 or thereabouts that he released them to other nurseries. So it was the "long" route he took. As the alba was selfed, the results should not really vary. The original plant that i selfed was from a wild source so its reluctance to increase isn't due to tissue culture problems. It may be simply that I haven't given them what they want. They have grown much better this year since we moved and I also kept them much warmer through the winter. The larger of my 2 bulbs has 2 flowering shoots so I should get two bulbs from this next year. Fingers crossed!
Paul
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There is a 3rd way too, which includes both technics, Dutch growers have mastered it with several orchids in the epidendroidae sub-familly:
* Keeping the protocorms dividing as undifferentiate after sowing
* Splitting the resulting mass (as many times as you wish theoretically) and then let the divisions differenciate
That way you obtain a virtually unlimited number of clones from each seedling.
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Hello Julien,
thank you, your third way is what I meant by tissue culture, though there may be a better technical term. It's a technique used very widely to propagate new hybrids in other plant families including vegetables.
It is very difficult to know why things are doing well in a season and not so well in another. The trouble is we don't monitor all the growing variables like light, temperature, feed, water quality etc etc and so we cannot look back and see exactly what we did or what happened when things went well / pear shaped. :( ???
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Hello Maren,
Ian's observations somehow fit with an experiment we made here.
We did try that method with Ophrys seedlings, and it effectively did not work so well in the long run... The 1st divisions grow normally (exactly like when accidentally splitting the protocorms during an early replating), but the subsequent ones result in weak plants. However, we haven't determined yet whether this is caused by an unadapted culture media, by the technic used to prevent the protocorm to differenciate (basically making everything spin constantely on both axis, preventing it to find a center of gravity) or if it's forcing the protocorm to stay undifferenciate which just exhausts it.
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Very interesting, Julien,
I wonder if we can find anyone who is actively working in this field. It would be great to get a deeper insight in these processes.
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I think I know who I can ask, but I won't have an answer before next week (and I think she uses auxins in the media rather than the classical method)
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Hi Lars
I have two FS bulbs of praecox var. reichenbachiana waiting for you, it is the type that originally was imported as Pln. vietnamensis. But remenber Christmas willl be in December. :-)
Regards Erling
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Very interesting, thanks for sharing your experience in Pleione with us!
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I finished lifting the pleiones today and noticed that one of the P. vesuvius had a new live root on it. I thought maybe a weed snuck in but no it's coming from the base of the pseudobulb. I also noticed that several of the buds seemed to be breaking through the sheath. Not sure what to do.
any ideas?
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I'd put it in the frdige for dormancy and check on it regulary, if it threatens to start growth too early, pot it
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Confirmation
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Nice plants Ashley :D
Here is a just flowered pot of P. Tsingtau.
K.
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Thanks Karel. The autumn-flowering hybrids brighten a quiet time of year here, so I must look out for Tsingtau.
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Again and again.
Her is another EBAY seller that thinks he can just "borow" pictures at the internet without asking. I have contacted him two times but no reponse. Now I have reported him to EBAY, and I hope they will deal with it. Beside my picture he has stole pictures of Shantung Ducat and Eiger belonging to Luc Gilgemyn from Belgium, yunnanensis from Hans J and scopulorum from Karel Tybl.
He calls him self jeanbapt_4
link to EBAY:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/jeanbapt_4/m.html?item=232171299976&hash=item360e7ce488%3Ag%3AIkUAAOSwEzxYTX8l&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/jeanbapt_4/m.html?item=232171299976&hash=item360e7ce488%3Ag%3AIkUAAOSwEzxYTX8l&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562)
Regards Erling
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Yes Erling, this is almost evergreen on Ebay. What is the worst, offered bulbs are really oddly looking with a rot damage, dead shoots etc. Poor who will buy them!
K.
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He has also used one of my Pl. forrestii alba images. I got no reply when I contacted him.
As Karel states he is not exactly selling quality stock.
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It can be hard to find the complaint form to send to Ebay The complaint form is HERE: http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/uk/vero/UK_NOCI26-01-10.pdf (http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/uk/vero/UK_NOCI26-01-10.pdf)
you may send it here: vero@ebay.co.uk (http://www.srgc.net/forum/wlmailhtml:%7BF6B2751D-108A-494B-963A-B0123C2E43A9%7Dmid://00000027/%21x-usc:mailto:vero@ebay.co.uk)
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Please everybody, do not buy anything from him. It is most likely not what he claim it is, an as karel says, just have a look at the bulbs. I would not risk buying them.
Regards Erling