Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Plant Identification => Plant Identification Questions and Answers => Topic started by: Jupiter on November 07, 2015, 12:25:01 PM
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Can anyone suggest a name for this beauty? I'm not having any luck myself...
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I'd be satisfied with just calling it Iris siberica, Jamus .... but then again, I can be a very simple soul!
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I'd be satisfied with just calling it Iris siberica, Jamus .... but then again, I can be a very simple soul!
Me too Maggi. There are umpteen blue sibericas and most of them look the same.
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well, there you go, Jamus - David is simple too....... ::) ;)
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Thank you simple souls, I will join your ranks and call it I. siberica. Our local botanic gardens where I took this photo are a bit slack when it comes to labeling.
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A couple of pics from a few years ago which illustrate the difficulties in ID's
The first is a variety called 'Perry's Blue' and the second is a seedling I grew from seed given to me by a gardener whilst I was visiting a garden he was working on.
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Yes I see! Thanks David, that seedling has an interesting form doesn't it? I reckon I prefer the first though. This is not a commonly grown Iris in South Australia but I have it on my radar now. I must have it in the garden... seed collecting expedition immanent. :)
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This is not a commonly grown Iris in South Australia but I have it on my radar now.
That is interesting, I would have thought Iris sibirica was common around the world, because it is so common plant here in the gardens. There are several only slightly different old strains of I.sibirica, most of them propably originate from seed. It is a hardy plant, and moles or deer don't eat it, and even if moles do it it, then it can grow again from the smallest pieces of root, so it is no wonder it survives even in old gardens with very little care.
There are also some very nice new new hybrids of Iris sibirica bred by Tamberg (http://www.tamberg.homepage.t-online.de/homep36e.htm), I'm so happy that I managed to buy some of them earlier, now they don't sell to private persons any more.
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Thanks for that Leena, I have a feeling that it really won't enjoy our long, hot and dry summers, which would explain why it isn't grown in gardens here. I will propagate a bit and get it going where I have some of my other cooler climate bulbs. It's difficult sometimes to give plant the sunshine they need but without the intense heat and radiation of the Australian summer sun. Maybe a large pot is the way to go?
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Certainly a cultivar form of Iris sibirica Jamus and probably an older one judging from the shape, and very nice too. Sibiricas love a cool, damp soil but also like the sun to induce a good flowering, so not always an easy combination to provide. They do wonderfully well here where they can be grown in the south in full sun yet still have a cool soil. Likewise in the UK I expect. The newer hybrids, especially those from the States while spectacular, lack the grace and elegance of the older varieties to my mind. They are usually shorter, with larger, heavily substanced and flounced flowers. Part of the attraction of these irises has always been the way their leaves and stems sway and move in a breeze, reminiscent of a reed bed. but the newer, very chunky-stemmed plants tend to be overly stiff and immovable.
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The newer hybrids, especially those from the States while spectacular, lack the grace and elegance of the older varieties to my mind. They are usually shorter, with larger, heavily substanced and flounced flowers. Part of the attraction of these irises has always been the way their leaves and stems sway and move in a breeze, reminiscent of a reed bed. but the newer, very chunky-stemmed plants tend to be overly stiff and immovable.
I agree, Lesley. That is why I like the older cultivars very much. They are also oftern more floriferous even if the growing conditions are just not right.
Here are some of my Iris sibirica. The first one is an old one, where I got it from it was grown at least from the 1940s.
The second one is also an old one, but with paler blue flowers.
The third is a one which I have grown from seed, it flowers a bit earlier than the first two and it is taller with smaller flowers but it is very vigorous with lots of flowers, and it is very tall, at least my height which is 1,7m with flowers much higher than the foliage.
I think there are seeds in all these three. ;)
The fourth is I.sibirica -hybrid from Tamberg called 'Höhenflug'. It is also tall with big flowers above the foliage.
The fifth picture is 'Burgundersamt', typical of newer hybrids with chunky flowers which are not above the foliage, but the color is something other than what is seen in I.sibirica.
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Lovely examples, Leena. Such elegant flowers.
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Thanks Maggi. :)
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I have to agree with Lesley about the elegance of the species and the "close to species" hybrids. A pity that the breeding has moved away from that form.
Leena,
that tall seedling of yours is wonderful!
We've grown a few different ones in our garden but the only ones to persist are growing where we supply some summer water,
cheers
fermi
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I think when any plant is intensively bred the chances are that the results will be rather "gussified" flouncy flowers with fancy colours which bear little resemblance to the original species : these are what we would often call "florists' varieties" - even if grown as garden plants and not primarily as cut flowers for the florists' trade.
I think many of us are much happier when, if hybrids are made, it is done to improve the "growability" of a plant - to make it more amenable to wider growing conditions and perhaps more hardy - and with the hope that the hybrid will retain as much of the original charm of the species as possible.
Of course, any of us can at times have our heads turned by the "pretty face" of one of the flouncier hybrids - but most of these do look a bit out of place in a purist alpine garden. That in itself is a bit odd when we conside some of the pure bred wild flowers which are spectacular intheir form and colouring with no interference in their breeding!
Crazy old world, isn't it?
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Thanks fermi, that tall plant is also my favourite. I'll attach one more picture of it's flowers.
I think many time breeders try to achieve big flowers, the bigger the better, but I like smaller flowers better unlike many "normal" people. Many times big flowers can't stand the rain and fall over, they can also look too "plastic".
Iris sibirica hybrid 'Sibirischer Fruhling' flowered for the first time last summer, and I liked it. The flowers were not too big and they were held above the foliage. I hope it will grow well in the future, I'll have to wait and see.
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Interesting Leena to see plants from northern sources, such as Thomas Tamberg in Germany and of course there are the English bred cultivars too, some well known here but more recently, it's American breeding that has been introduced to NZ and probably Australia as well. The Americans seem to love the bizarre and wildly frilly/flounced/fantasy types whereas my tastes are for the more formal and tailored look. I think the above comments about the older forms also apply to the Pacific Coast hybrids which are taking over the world, they being so fertile and widely available. There are certainly some fantastic plants with amazing forms and colour combos yet the older, innominata forms which we grew - and still do when available - are to my mind, the prettier. PC species are not so easily come-by and not so easy to establish either in some cases. As for tall bearded irises, they may as well be Christmas decorations or wedding gowns, with outlandish forms which I avoid like a plague in most cases. In recent years better-off members of NZIS have taken to going en mass to the AIS Conventions where they see such plants growing and the Americans BEING Americans are hugely generous with their knowledge, experience and especially their SEEDS, so that these oddball irises are becoming the usual thing here, taken up by local breeders and growers.
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I went to my little nursery on the weekend and found that I have a pot full of seedlings collected from those plants in my initial posting, last year. I mislabeled them as "unknown water Iris maybe delavayi" and overlooked them. I will be carefully potting them on and looking after them this week.
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Jamus,
I have one ancient clump of Iris siberica here at the farm. It is a lovely mutt of sorts (most likely an old named form, the flowers are very simple, elegant, and beautiful). It survives and blooms well if given plenty of water, some afternoon shade from the 38 C + summertime sun, and a top dressing of compost (humus) every few years (i.e. it survives some degree of neglect).
I did not have much luck with them in containers. After 2 years in a 01 gallon container, they did not grow very well. Re-potting, dividing, and fertilizer did not seem to help much. Maybe the soil became too warm? Maybe the containers were too small. I certainly never tried any in a large tub.
I have a batch of seedlings (from a kind forumist) coming on that I plan on planting out in areas of the garden where the soil is rich and well watered. I feel confident that they will grow in a satisfactory way (i.e. good enough for me) despite the heat and dry air during the summer.
Good luck with your plants. :)