Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => NARCISSUS => Topic started by: YT on November 03, 2015, 10:18:01 AM
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Narcissus triandrus x serotinus
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Beauties YT
Roland
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Nice autumn flowering combination (spring x autumn flowering species)!
Is it a Japanese creation? It seems to me in your country developes an increasing interest
in autumn flowring daffodils - does it?
Gerd
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Beauties YT
Roland
Thanks, Roland!
Nice autumn flowering combination (spring x autumn flowering species)!
Is it a Japanese creation? It seems to me in your country developes an increasing interest in autumn flowring daffodils - does it?
Gerd
Hello, Gerd. I obtained this hybrid from a Japanese nursery but seems that they are not so interested in developing and increasing autumn hybrids.
Though daffodils are very popular spring bulbs here, only a few people are interested in such enthusiasts' narcissus.
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Hello, Gerd. I obtained this hybrid from a Japanese nursery but seems that they are not so interested in developing and increasing autumn hybrids.
Though daffodils are very popular spring bulbs here, only a few people are interested in such enthusiasts' narcissus.
Thank you Tatsuo! That`s a pity - because the climate would be suited for the autumn flowering daffs in most parts of
your country - and a special interest for tiny and choice species (Hepatica) seems already existing.
Gerd
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Very interesting Tatsuo. There seems no sign of the triandrus parent in the flower.
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Very interesting Tatsuo. There seems no sign of the triandrus parent in the flower.
Hello, Anne. I think its sticking out stigmas from cups and slightly reflexed sepals are inherited from triandrus. Perhaps inclined scapes are too.
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Maybe the multiple flowers per stem - or does serotinus have that anyway?
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N.serotinus will often have 2 flowers per scape, sometimes inclined upwards. In this hybrid I see some with 3 buds, and the corona is larger and more flared than you'd get in serotinus, which must be from the triandrus parent? And perhaps the exerted stigma as Tatsuo suggests?
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I see. My ignorance of the autumn daffodils is boundless!
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According the nice weather conditions here a new set of flowers opened.
These are
Narcissus x alleniae in nearly white and some with a yellowish tint plus the parents of the hybrid
N. viridiflorus and N. miniatus (obsoletus)
Gerd
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Narcissus cantabricus ssp cantabricus and romieuxii var zaianicus.
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Found by a slug before I found it in flower >:(
Very nice none the less and has survived the past 3 years outdoors without any protection:
Narcissus romieuxii 'Craigton Clanger' (Not a clanger at all!)
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can anyone help with an id on this one, it's flowering now with more to come. I got it from the AGS as Narcissus romieuxii mesatlanticus - I was expecting white or cream rather than pale yellow. But it's different from my other romieuxii so I'm not too worried.
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Beautiful hybrid Tatsuo, and also great results all of you with this autumn narcissi.
Tatsuo, I am sure your hybrid has N. obsoletus as mother, because N. serotinus is strictly uniflower. The father is N. triandrus (this is why it hasn't bloom in spring) which has several flowers, but the mother is the one that should have several flowers to make possible its hybrids also be multiflower. So autumn blooming and multiflowered species = N. obosletus, not N. serotinus.
That I observed in the nature, is that a mother uniflower, creates uniflower hybrids. So maybe this is why the mother of your hybrid is N. obsoletus instead N. serotinus. In adition, also the perianth tube hasn't any character of mother N. serotinus which is very remarkable
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Narcissus romieuxii "Treble Chance" today in Germany.
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Narcissus 'Tequila Sunrise Group' flowering today in a wet and windy Northern Ireland.
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can anyone help with an id on this one, it's flowering now with more to come. I got it from the AGS as Narcissus romieuxii mesatlanticus - I was expecting white or cream rather than pale yellow. But it's different from my other romieuxii so I'm not too worried.
I cannot ID the flower but love that reflexed corona like as N. romieuxii 'Julia Jane', Mark :P
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Beautiful hybrid Tatsuo, and also great results all of you with this autumn narcissi.
Tatsuo, I am sure your hybrid has N. obsoletus as mother, because N. serotinus is strictly uniflower. The father is N. triandrus (this is why it hasn't bloom in spring) which has several flowers, but the mother is the one that should have several flowers to make possible its hybrids also be multiflower. So autumn blooming and multiflowered species = N. obosletus, not N. serotinus.
That I observed in the nature, is that a mother uniflower, creates uniflower hybrids. So maybe this is why the mother of your hybrid is N. obsoletus instead N. serotinus. In adition, also the perianth tube hasn't any character of mother N. serotinus which is very remarkable
Thank you for your details about the hybrids. These hybrids are from a nursery and I have no choice but to believe what they say.
I'm lucky to get reasonable information from narcissus specialist like you, Rafa ;)
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Narcissus romieuxii "Treble Chance" today in Germany.
That's very early for me, Emilio. 'Treble Chance' usually flowers in February here.
Narcissus 'Tequila Sunrise Group' flowering today in a wet and windy Northern Ireland.
You are enjoying lots of sunny day now, Dave!
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You are enjoying lots of sunny day now, Dave!
I am indeed Tatsuo. Amazing how a something so small and beautiful can add sunshine to your life. It is a great hobby/passion we have.
Dave
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I am indeed Tatsuo. Amazing how a something so small and beautiful can add sunshine to your life. It is a great hobby/passion we have.
Dave
I agree! Such a shame that the autumn and winter flowering narcissus are quite unknown by some folks. We are doing our bit here to get the word out there! Mind you, some from this season are not the easiest to grow - but the little winter hoops etc are much easier for the most part. Such a delight to enjoy them in the dismal weather and sad days of human cruelty.
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Well said Maggi, when you think these people can't sink any lower, they prove you wrong.
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Narcissus cantabricus
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All these flowers are cheering me while I wait for mine to start - the penalty of being late with the watering. Craigton Chorister will be the first, I think!
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Anne, do you have an opinion on the plant in my reply #13?
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I think it's a cracker! Hopefully the stem will be stronger when the plant is older though. It looks to me like the mesatlanticus (mine were yellow - they can be) has hybridised with something petunioid. That's the wonder of seed exchanges - you can get nice surprises. :)
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thanks Anne, actually it's a bit more upright - it had started to flower under the bench and I hadn't noticed. There are more flowers to come as it's several sedlings - it will be interesting to see if they are all the same.
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Narcissus papyraceus. This is not from forced bulbs commonly sold at this time of year. They are offsets from one bulb bought a decade ago from a well known seller of Rare Plants as Narcissus pachybolbos, but which keys out as N. papyraceus. They have been sitting in a pot on the patio behind the house for a couple of years with little attention other than some Blood Fish and Bone Meal.
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I hope Rafa won't mind me sharing this comment on papyraceus/panizzianus:
Subsp. pannizianus is quite harmonic plant in proportions between corona and tepals, very good scented, and the most important maybe is the one that blooms later in late winter.
Subsp. papyraceus is very chaotic twhisted tepals, irregular corona… and scent very bad (maybe the worst narcissus) the vernacular name here is “meados de burra” o “meados de cabra” which means donkey or goat pee. Also it blooms before N. pannizianus.
What does yours smell like, Ralph?
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Tomorrow, I sniff!
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I hope Rafa won't mind me sharing this comment on papyraceus/panizzianus:
Subsp. pannizianus is quite harmonic plant in proportions between corona and tepals, very good scented, and the most important maybe is the one that blooms later in late winter.
Subsp. papyraceus is very chaotic twhisted tepals, irregular corona… and scent very bad (maybe the worst narcissus) the vernacular name here is “meados de burra” o “meados de cabra” which means donkey or goat pee. Also it blooms before N. pannizianus.
Must try the sniff test as I have clumps of both (?) in the garden, but six months or so away from flowering.
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Tomorrow, I sniff!
Oh dear, scent is so subjective, isn't it? My wife thinks they smell pleasant and "narcissus-like" but I can detect a hint of the donkey there. More pictures attached, perhaps Rafa can identify which subspecies?
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I am sure it is not N. pachybolbus. Like N. dubius and N. tortifolius they have eliptic escape section and paperwhites have (I don't know the word in english) "ancipitada" section.
I have some ideas about these plants, but I am not sure at all... We have plants that scent marvellous, and another plants that has the worst scent, plants that blooms in November and plants that blooms in Feberuary and a range between them.
In recent observations I notice that plants that have a terrible scent, starts to have a good scent after they have been pollinated.
So maybe there are just one species N. papyraceus, with a range of forms and a long phenology period depending where it grows, and a strategy for being pollinated that involves two differnt scents depending on whether the ovary is closed or not. I mean it use a bad scent (to our nose :) ) to attract certain insects and once it has been pollinated it use another scent to repel the same insects.
I think that further field studies are needed to understand paperwhites.
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Very interesting, and not straightforward. No surprise there!
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At last, hoop-petticoat daffodil season has just come here today nearly 4 weeks earlier than usual :) It’s very strange season here with very warm and humid weather so narcissus grow higher.
Left: Narcissus ‘Shirayukihime’ (白雪姫)
I bought this un-registered hybrid bulbs from a nursery in Japan but there are some variations with different flowering time, size, shapes and plant height :-\ :( This is the earliest flowering plants among them.
Right: Narcissus romieuxii subsp. albidus var. zaianicus
One of the self pollinated seedlings from a plant labelled as “N. zaianicus var. albus MS. 168 from Monocot Nursery”. Unfortunately, the parent had already been affected by virus when I got it and had to throw them away after collected seeds.
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Your narcissus look more like ours this year, Tatsuo - not so compact. Still beautiful!
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Your narcissus look more like ours this year, Tatsuo - not so compact. Still beautiful!
Thanks, Anne. Yes, indeed.