Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

General Subjects => Flowers and Foliage Now => Topic started by: Matt T on September 01, 2015, 09:03:13 AM

Title: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Matt T on September 01, 2015, 09:03:13 AM
To mirror Fermi's first day of spring I thought I'd capture what's out in the garden now on our first day of autumn. It's a pretty dire situation but not unexpected given the weather this year.

Ourisia caespitosa
Erodium x variabile 'Bishop's Form'
Acis autumnalis - just hanging on in there but not liking our summer
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: ian mcdonald on September 01, 2015, 03:10:13 PM
Hello Matt. I thought the Acis looked familiar then found it is another product of the name changers. Mine is just in flower. Also still in flower are the recently discussed sheeps bit and a miniature Doronicum, whose name I forget. It has been in flower since Easter. Perhaps due to the cool weather.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Matt T on September 01, 2015, 07:12:11 PM
Hi Ian,
Yes, the taxonomists are at it again! Although, these plants started out as Acis were lumped in with the Leucojums and split out again. The ones with green (sometimes yellow) tips stayed as Leucojum whilst those without coloured tips were put back into Acis. If think it makes sense in this case.
It certainly has been a strange year, phenologically speaking!
M
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: meanie on September 04, 2015, 02:49:15 PM
Salvia atrocyanea...............
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5833/21098518402_5c4fce0554_z.jpg)

A couple of Eucomis comosa - Sparkling Burgundy and the darker Oakhurst.................
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5789/21098432602_5706e13cf7_z.jpg)

T'other halves Brug has finally seen fit to put on a decent show...........
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5728/20920518610_f27835b566_z.jpg)

Nicotiana glauca (Tree Nicotiana).............
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5806/20572568558_abc32b30f6_z.jpg)

The Solanum rantonnetii that I planted out last year survived the winter but took until now to bloom............
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/693/20767477721_73ba5cd07b_z.jpg)

Cuphea viscosissima...............
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/694/20760558795_6a391334e6_z.jpg)

Manfreda elongata............
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/778/20057701073_9ed7e9b196_z.jpg)

Bomarea edulis...................
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/768/20057699173_4ae609ce7b_z.jpg)

Rhodochiton.............
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/623/20685398991_74391a63e0_z.jpg)

Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 04, 2015, 03:22:59 PM
Eucomis comosa 'Sparkling Burgundy' just hangs on here. No flowers.  :'(
I've never seen 'Oakhurst' - it's very fine too in your pic.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 04, 2015, 05:37:33 PM
 Sad death of Will Giles of  " the Exotic Garden", Norwich.     http://www.exoticgarden.com (http://www.exoticgarden.com)

It is sad to learn  of the death of Will Giles on Wednesday 2nd September 2015.

His last "blog" on his  website  was from the end of July. I know many members here are fans of  more tender and exotic plants so the death of Will Giles will be felt by many, I'm sure.




Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Jonny_SE on September 04, 2015, 10:04:43 PM
Flowering for the 4'th week now and still looking like new.  Even with 60mm of rain the last days it still putting up a show.   
Parnassia foliosa var. foliosa
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: meanie on September 05, 2015, 11:41:25 AM
Eucomis comosa 'Sparkling Burgundy' just hangs on here. No flowers.  :'(
I've never seen 'Oakhurst' - it's very fine too in your pic.
I need to start them off in the greenhouse and plant out mid June here in the Cotswolds or I get no flowers either.

Sad death of Will Giles of  " the Exotic Garden", Norwich.     http://www.exoticgarden.com (http://www.exoticgarden.com)

It is sad to learn  of the death of Will Giles on Wednesday 2nd September 2015.

His last "blog" on his  website  was from the end of July. I know many members here are fans of  more tender and exotic plants so the death of Will Giles will be felt by many, I'm sure.

There have been many tributes on the exotic forums. I never met him or visited his garden but his blog was a good read and as someone who just seems to toss plants in where I think they'll work I envied his vision.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: johnw on September 05, 2015, 06:13:35 PM
Kalopanax pictus (aka septemlobus) in flower this past week at a friend's, I grew this one from seed in the mid to late 1970's.  These umbels can be up to 2ft across & put on a mighty fine show, they're followed by black berries.  Wonderful bark once it looses most of it spines as the tree matures.  Absolutely teen-proof.

Does anyone know of a seed source for type trees with very indented foliage like v. maximowiczii?

john - 21c, 64% humidity
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: johnw on September 05, 2015, 06:15:32 PM
Sad death of Will Giles of  " the Exotic Garden", Norwich.     http://www.exoticgarden.com (http://www.exoticgarden.com)

It is sad to learn  of the death of Will Giles on Wednesday 2nd September 2015.

His last "blog" on his  website  was from the end of July. I know many members here are fans of  more tender and exotic plants so the death of Will Giles will be felt by many, I'm sure.

How very sad, I had just discovered their website last week.

john
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Brian Ellis on September 06, 2015, 09:05:30 AM
It is sad to learn  of the death of Will Giles on Wednesday 2nd September 2015.

His last "blog" on his  website  was from the end of July.

In fact it was July 2014 Maggi.  We went to his garden many times over the years and he was a lovely person, always ready to give advice.  He will be greatly missed in Norfolk, we only hope the garden will not be lost -  there is a tribute by one of his volounteers here:

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/tributes_after_death_of_norfolk_gardener_will_giles_1_4221725 (http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/tributes_after_death_of_norfolk_gardener_will_giles_1_4221725)
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: ian mcdonald on September 06, 2015, 01:07:21 PM
A warm day here. There are red admirals and holly blues on the clematis heracleifolia. It has a long flowering period and is a good source of food for many insects.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 06, 2015, 01:24:12 PM
In fact it was July 2014 Maggi.  We went to his garden many times over the years and he was a lovely person, always ready to give advice.  He will be greatly missed in Norfolk, we only hope the garden will not be lost -  there is a tribute by one of his volounteers here:

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/tributes_after_death_of_norfolk_gardener_will_giles_1_4221725 (http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/tributes_after_death_of_norfolk_gardener_will_giles_1_4221725)

 Ah yes, I should have said that. Poor man had been ill for a long time.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Tony Willis on September 06, 2015, 03:27:16 PM
Gladiolus 'Ruby'  now thought to be closer  to G.ecklonii than G.papilio. Very hardy and a wonderful colour
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: johnw on September 06, 2015, 05:22:22 PM
A few things in flower here the past week...

1. first flowers on Delosperma Mesa Verde 'Kelaidis' after a traumatic bare-rooting in Spring.

2. Echeveria 'Topsy Turvy', are the flowers ever without aphis?
 
3. Gladiolus x primulinus Miss Prim series 'Victoria', even nicer before fully open.

4. Foliage only, Magnolia tripetala grown from the Magnolia Society seedex at a friend's.  Always stops folks in their tracks. This a lower branch on a 10m tree.

johnw - 26c & the humidity is returning gradually.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hoy on September 06, 2015, 07:09:32 PM
John,

That Magnolia had stopped me too had I seen it here :o

But you can't have much wind over there in summertime ;D
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: johnw on September 06, 2015, 08:20:25 PM
John, But you can't have much wind over there in summertime ;D

Generally that's true Trond, strong summer winds are not terribly common, unless of course it's a hurricane or tropical depression passing by. ;D  But in its native haunts it would be subject to those as well though have only seen them in protected bottomlands.  This M. tripetala is in a sheltered gully.

I assume you have seen M. macrophylla ssp. macrophylla with even bigger leaves and the dwarfer ssp. ashei.  The first is macro growing in full sun & wind near Lunenburg, NS, the ocean is but 30m away.  In the nearby open woodland the tall trees are poker straight with leaves are almost a meter long.  The second photo is perhaps a newly planted ashei in the NS interior, ed. yes it is ashei as I see a big flower bud on it - can flower on a 30cm plant, macro takes much longer to flower.

By the way M. fraseri might be worth a try as I have seen it growing just 10-20m below the balds of the Appalachians w2ith tops sticking up into the sun & wind.  It loves sharp drainage, rocky soils but despises pots.

The sound of rain on these brutes is magical, rather Amazonian.

john
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Yann on September 06, 2015, 08:28:00 PM
First time flowering for this Aconitum found in Russia, 2009
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hoy on September 06, 2015, 08:49:27 PM
John,

Now I have gotten BIG problems ;)

I know they grow M. tripetala in Oslo, and I have seen several magnolias in Florida (where I have been twice) but I have never considered growing them myself. Until now!
It is too windy where I live (even in summer the north wind can be devastating) so my only chance is at the summerhouse. But I need a bigger property ;D
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Robert on September 07, 2015, 03:09:11 PM
Trond,

One of your fellow countrymen, Mr. Ole Jonny Larsen, wrote an article for the RHS Rhododendron, Magnolia, Camellia Group 2009 Yearbook entitled "Growing Magnolias in Cold Climates. Perhaps this article would interest you.

Also, I understand that he has a web site www.lapponicum.com (http://www.lapponicum.com) . I do not know, but there may be additional information about Magnolias in Norway on this web site. It may only concern Rhododendrons, but it may be worth a look.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: johnw on September 07, 2015, 03:31:13 PM
Here's a link to that article Trond.

http://www.lapponicum.com/uploads/2/6/1/3/26138093/jean_rasmussen_i_norge.pdf (http://www.lapponicum.com/uploads/2/6/1/3/26138093/jean_rasmussen_i_norge.pdf)

Thanks Robert, it's a good one.

john
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: johnw on September 07, 2015, 03:43:12 PM
If only I could grow the Lewisias like friend Sterling Levy - of Magnolia tripetala fame - just outside Halifax.   Many are grown in troughs under an overhang, they get water when he decides to give it.  This delicious white Lewisia tweedyi was from Jelitto seed, flowering a few days ago.

A pleasant sunny 18c with 86% humidity, a possible 29c feeling like 34c this afternoon - with luck it may not materialize on the coast.

john
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 07, 2015, 04:00:45 PM
Here's a link to that article Trond.

http://www.lapponicum.com/uploads/2/6/1/3/26138093/jean_rasmussen_i_norge.pdf (http://www.lapponicum.com/uploads/2/6/1/3/26138093/jean_rasmussen_i_norge.pdf)

Thanks Robert, it's a good one.

john
  Is that the right article?
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Robert on September 07, 2015, 05:07:09 PM
John,

I agree the Magnolia article is a good one.

I have to agree with Maggi that perhaps a mistake has been made. Mr. Larsen sent me the article about Jean Rasmussen. This too is an excellent article.

If the link is not correct, maybe there is a link to the Magnolia article?

Anyway, John, thank you for helping out.  :)
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 07, 2015, 06:51:02 PM
On Mr Larssen's site the same article is under the link for both the Magnolia article and the Rassmussen piece. I think it might be useful for someone who speaks the language to contact  him ----- Trond??
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hoy on September 07, 2015, 07:05:03 PM
Thank you for your help! The article in the link is about the former wife of Frank Kingdon Ward. I have read it before and it is very interesting.

I have just looked at Ole Jonny's site and it seems that two different articles by mistake share the same link. I'll ask him myself.


I also do grow a few Magnolias, but John's pictures struck me suddenly and made me think I wanted to grow one of the really big-leaved ones ;D

Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hoy on September 07, 2015, 07:12:30 PM
On Mr Larssen's site the same article is under the link for both the Magnolia article and the Rassmussen piece. I think it might be useful for someone who speaks the language to contact  him ----- Trond??

Maggi, I have already sent him an email ;)
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 07, 2015, 08:38:52 PM
 :) Thank you Trond.

 I wonder if the  large leaved magnolias might behave in your climate as the large leaved Rhodos do here in the East of Scotland - that is to say - as soon as they are large enough to grow above the windbreak of our hedge the leaves get progressively smaller!  :-\

So a Rhod. rex fictolacteum, which might have leaves 50 to 60 cms long on the West coast of Scotland  reduces here till it has a leaf barely longer than an average rhodo plant - about  15 to 18 cms  :'( :'(
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: johnw on September 07, 2015, 09:11:10 PM
Maggi, I have already sent him an email ;)

Oops so did I.

"John, I did not know about this, but I think I can get the right article in place. I have a PDF of it.  Jonny"


johnw
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: johnw on September 07, 2015, 09:14:40 PM
A first bud on the Nerine bowdenii ssp. wellsii seedlings, the seed came from GerdK in December of 2008 so they likely sprouted in January 2009.  Six years not so bad I guess and they all survived.  I think it will be a very important plant for us as it flowers almost 3 months ahead of the type even though it flushes later.

Thanks GerdK.

johnw
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hoy on September 07, 2015, 09:55:38 PM
Oops so did I.

"John, I did not know about this, but I think I can get the right article in place. I have a PDF of it.  Jonny"


johnw

He just sent me the article but I also found out that I could just change the last part of the link ;)
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: johnw on September 07, 2015, 10:34:10 PM
1. A leisurely day out on the coast with friends, calm and tranquil out there, did absolutely nothing.  Looking south to Bermuda.

2. Sarracenia 'Dixie Lace' planted in that garden the past spring, from a 4" pot and divided.  I'd say it has vigour.

3. Fargesia sp. 'Scabrida', a classy Fargesia and no slouch.

4. Abies koreana v. prostrata cones. Icicles at 24c?

5.  Parting shot of the garden we were in, looking quite fine despite the desaprate need for rain here.   drove home with all the windows down, quite magical.

23c, 72% humidity & brilliant September sunshine.

johnw
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gabriela on September 07, 2015, 10:43:45 PM
Here are a couple of Roscoeas, always flowering sooo.. late in Southwestern Ontario:
Roscoea auriculata

[attachimg=1]
Roscoea scillifolia f. atropurpurea
[attachimg=2]

and the fruit of Magnolia tripetala that everyone admired, this photo taken in August. It gets gorgeous in late September:
[attach=3]
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Giles on September 08, 2015, 08:38:15 AM
'First time flowering for this Aconitum found in Russia, 2009'

Yann, I love it...  thanks for posting.
I'm going through a difficult phase of trying not to make aconites, my next craze..  not sure how long I can hold out  ;)
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 08, 2015, 11:51:14 AM

I'm going through a difficult phase of trying not to make aconites, my next craze..  not sure how long I can hold out  ;)
  Quite understandable!  Giles, do you grow the rather yummy A. hemsleyanum 'Red Wine' ?  I saw it first  in the forum quite some years ago, and Graham Ware sang its praises in the IRG : http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2012May241337894269IRG29-May2012.pdf (http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2012May241337894269IRG29-May2012.pdf)

I'm still resisting temptations, for this  gem - but perhaps not for too much longer!
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Giles on September 09, 2015, 10:33:06 AM
..a nice article, thankyou Maggi..   ..and Chiltern Seeds sell it too..    ;)
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: astragalus on September 09, 2015, 06:28:29 PM
Despite temperatures in the 90sF (97 yesterday!), and one 5 minute rain in the last 2 1/2 months, there are still a few things blooming now (or at least looking good).  The Astragalus utahensis is putting on a second bloom - I guess it really loves it dry.  The meadow is brown and hard as a rock.
Hoping for some rain tomorrow.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Robert on September 09, 2015, 08:45:31 PM
Astragalus,

Fantastic photographs!  :)

Eriogoum umbellatum in bloom in September!  Around here, even in the mountains they have finished up. Looks great.

Do you have success with other Gentians? I grow and have grown a few that seem tolerant of our heat.

Do you direct sow your Astragalus? For me, they have been temperamental when young. I have some seed I will be planting this autumn and will try sowing them directly in site in some sand beds (tubs). Any other advice would be welcome.

Sorry for so many questions. I hope that it is not too onerous to answer them.  :-\
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: astragalus on September 10, 2015, 03:12:55 AM
Thanks, Robert.
The Eriogonum bloomed in the spring per usual, this is a second bloom - has never happened with this one before.  It may not have time to set seed, though.
I grow Gentiana angustifolius, G.acaulis, G. asclepidea. G. dinarica.  Any of the large trumpet spring bloomers can curl up and die during a drought since I can't water, but G. angustifoliua and G. acaulis can take a lot of abuse and come back.
I've had no luck with direct sowing of astragalus seed although a few, very few, have self-sown.
I have much better luck with seedlings that have matured to the point that the roots are starting to come out of a standard 2 1/2" pot.  Astragalus monspessulans is very easy and may even self-sow more than you want if it's happy.  Let me know if you succeed with direct sowing in sand tubs.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Robert on September 10, 2015, 04:49:55 AM
Astragalus,

I very much appreciate all of the information.

I have never had a second bloom on Eriogonum umbellatum. Some of the other species will repeat and others like forms of E. nudum seem to bloom for months, especially if they get a little extra irrigation. The repeat bloomers also tend to be the species that will bloom the first year from seed.

Gentiana dinarica has been tough here as well as G newberryi. I have not had success with G. acaulis, yet, and I have yet to try G. angustifolius (more like get the seed to germinate  :(  ).

I appreciate the tip on transplanting Astragalus species. It seems that I have been too hasty to get them situated in the garden. I have grown them both from rooted cuttings (very easy to root) and seed. I use 2 1/4 "rose pots" all the time.

I have some seemingly perfect sites in some sand beds (tubs) where I will give the direct seeding method a try. I will let you know as to the results.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Tim Ingram on September 10, 2015, 09:26:43 AM
Robert and Anne - I'm really interested in this discussion about raising/growing Astragalus/Oxytropis and other small legumes. They really aren't easy but so very beautiful and thrilling when they do grow. Graham Nicholls must be one of the very best growers in the UK and in his book on 'Alpine Plants of North America' he recommends sowing in late autumn after abrading or nicking the seed and then growing on seedlings through the winter. He also recommends sowing seeds separately (perhaps in multitrays?) because of chemicals produced by germinating plants that inhibit growth of nearby seeds. I've always tended to wait till spring to sow legumes because they germinate so quickly generally and I've thought they needed warmth to grow away well. I haven't done very well with them - though had a woderful plant of A. utahensis for a few years - and in the wild presumably it will be the colder and wetter season when seed does germinate. Very few people grow them here and almost always in pots, but they look so much finer in the way Anne grows them in the rock garden. Definitely plants worthy of more experiment in growing.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: ian mcdonald on September 10, 2015, 12:05:36 PM
If anyone else is interested in our native plants I have collected seed of Jasione montana (sheeps bit) for the exchange.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: astragalus on September 10, 2015, 01:03:19 PM
Robert and Tim, my garden conditions dictate how I grow things - the garden is sunny, windy (an added desiccant), and hot and dry in the summer.  If I plant out tiny seedlings they would dry up in a day and disappear.  For me, it's better to wait until they have a bit more size.  Pea seedlings are watered and two days later the pot is tipped out into a tray of damp sand where I've scooped out a spot for each seedling and I only do a few at a time.  The scooped out spot is barely beyond horizontal.  Then a layer of damp sand just to cover the roots and then transplanted into a prepared spot and watered in and shaded.  Jacques Thompson of Michigan taught me years ago to use a shim (bought inexpensively in large bundles) next to the seedling for shade from the hottest sun.  Leave the shim in for at least a week or two for protection.  It all depends on the weather.  New plants are watered by hand if it doesn't rain.  I always have empty gallon milk containers ready to do this.
Graham Nicholls is a fantastic grower of North American plants, including the peas but he does them in pots mostly, I think.  He can grow Astragalus gilviflorus and I can't and that's just one example.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: astragalus on September 10, 2015, 01:11:44 PM
Tim, I think that seed reaction is called allelopathic??  And it's true for a lot of peas but not all.
If you nick the seeds and put them in a plastic baggy half filled with turface or something similar, and put them in the refrigerator for a while, they will all germinate and can then be potted up together.  Perhaps once they've been nicked the reaction is gone??  I only know what works for me.
Probably only a few in the pot because astragali, for instance, resent too much root handling - the tap root can be strong but the feeder roots can be hair-like and delicate.  Easier to tip out a pot with 4 or 5 rather than 20.  Some people will also soak the seeds but I usually don't - probably too lazy for the extra step. Try and get Graham to weigh in on this because he is a master at growing from seed.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Robert on September 10, 2015, 05:16:20 PM
Tim and Anne,

Here in California I use several methods when germinating Fabaceae. Larger seeds such as Lupinus  are nicked and planted in the autumn, after 15 October. Germination is immediate. The seedlings are generally highly resistant to cold weather, so I can keep them out for the winter where the make slow but steady growth. For me at least, most Lupines transplant well, however I see no reason why they could not be seeded out 2-3 per 2-1/4" rose pot.

Others such as Cercis occidentalis germinate well with a hot water treatment. Germination is excellent but tends to take longer. I have a feeling that nicking the seed would work too, however I have never tried this method with Cercis.

Still others need no pre-treatment at all and will germinate well just being left out for the winter.

Another option that works for me is rooting cuttings. Many Fabaceae root extremely easily from semi-hardened first year growth. Superior clones can be propagated this way. Better yet is creating a seed line that breeds true from seed. Fabaceae in general are close to, but not quite, obligate in-breeders. This makes the creation of a true breeding line straight forward. As a farmer I was doing this all the time.

For those who are adventurous, out-breeding Fabaceae offers tremendous creative possibilities. As a farmer I was involved with this too. There are some technical issues that need to be addressed, however Fabaceae seem to benefit from out-breeding and a whole new unseen world opens up when they are out-bred.

Out here in the western U.S.A., we have many species within the Fabaceae family that have been overlooked or under used. I my mind, there is much potential within the Lotus, Hosackia, Acmispon group. Our western Lathyrus seem overlooked too. I am certainly pursuing this and will report as progress is made.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: astragalus on September 10, 2015, 10:05:22 PM
Robert, can you please explain "out-breeding"  and "obligate in-breeders"?
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Robert on September 11, 2015, 01:01:47 AM
Robert, can you please explain "out-breeding"  and "obligate in-breeders"?

Anne,

We understand in-breeding as self pollination, pollination with a sibling, or very closely related relative. Out-breeding is the complete opposite, pollination with an unrelated plant. This can be within the same species or the use of another species.

An obligate out-breeder would be something like a Lily. A lily will not accept its own pollen. To in-breed a Lily one needs to cross it with a sibling. An obligate in-breeder is a plant that can do nothing but accept its own pollen. Plants of this sort are rare, however they do exist.

In the case of Lupines, the way the flowers are designed out breeding is difficult but it does happen more often than we would think, especially if there are many insect pollinators active at the time of flowering.

In the vegetable world, modern open pollinated tomatoes, beans, and peas are generally highly inbred. They do not suffer from inbred depression. Years ago I created a hybrid tomato I called 'Freya's Tears Hybrid'. In this case, one of the parents of this hybrid I inbreed for 8 generations and then crossed it with another inbred line that I maintained to create a uniform F1 hybrid. It is a little more complicated than this, but this is the general idea.

I am going on a hunch, thus believe that out-breeding some of our favorite Fabaceae could result in some new, different, and exciting new plants for our gardens. This could include out-breeding between different species, but could also include out-breeding between unrelated parents within the same species.

I have cross pollinated some Fabaceae and know that there are technical difficulties cross pollinating them. Carefully take a flower apart and you will see part of what I am explaining. Having the stigma dry-out after cross pollinating is another obstacle that needs to be overcome. Anyway, there could be some possibilities there for folks like me that is interested in such things.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hoy on September 11, 2015, 08:35:21 AM
Robert,

I think out-breeding some of the difficult-to-grow peas could make them easier. You can get a hybrid swarm and some of the progeny should be easier to grow ;)
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: arisaema on September 11, 2015, 08:55:43 AM
Pleased to find Cremanthodium rhodocephalum, both in flower - and in seed  ;)
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hoy on September 11, 2015, 09:39:18 AM
Will they appear in your seedlist ;)

Would be pleased to have in the garden also!
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: arisaema on September 11, 2015, 10:18:07 AM
It will, the plants in sunnier positions had ripe seeds, thankfully. It looks easy enough to grow, at least in Scotland, Norway and similar climates, it's another one of those (lovely) roadside weeds  ;D
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Anthony Darby on September 11, 2015, 10:30:48 AM
Robert,

I think out-breeding some of the difficult-to-grow peas could make them easier. You can get a hybrid swarm and some of the progeny should be easier to grow ;)
Gregor Mendel made out-breeding in peas famous. Wonder if he thought of trying with lupins?
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 11, 2015, 11:14:09 AM
Pleased to find Cremanthodium rhodocephalum, both in flower - and in seed  ;)

Isn't the colour lovely? I love Cremanthodiums.  Ian  waxes lyrical about them in the Tromso Botanic Garden.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Robert on September 11, 2015, 01:16:53 PM
Robert,

I think out-breeding some of the difficult-to-grow peas could make them easier. You can get a hybrid swarm and some of the progeny should be easier to grow ;)

Trond,

Right now I have it in my mind to work with some of the more difficult-to-grow Lupines. Easier-to-grow forms of Lupinus lepidus, especially lobbii, L. grayii, and L. breweri seem to me as if they would be good additions to a garden. Also, an improved Lupinus argenteus could be stunning. Anyway, there seems to be much potential, and they grow locally so I can be very proactive in my efforts. It all takes time, but progress is already being made.

I am also intrigued with the whole Lotus, Hosackia, Acmispon complex. They seem completely overlooked even locally here in California.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Tim Ingram on September 11, 2015, 02:09:54 PM
The seed of this was labelled L. breweri - for anyone likely to be tempted by these wonderful lupins as well - and another species we had was L. excubitus var. austromontanus (sadly this succumbed to molluscs! - but has beautiful foliage too). A careful watch has to kept for the lupin aphid which can decimate plants almost overnight if not caught in time.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: David Nicholson on September 11, 2015, 04:41:53 PM
Tim, do you grow any of the large garden Lupins and do they suffer from Lupin aphids too. I could be easily tempted by some of the small ones.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: astragalus on September 11, 2015, 05:08:54 PM
Robert, thank you so much for your explanation, I was totally at sea.
Tim, great foliage on L. breweri.  The small lupines seem difficult to keep here for longer than a couple of years.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Tim Ingram on September 11, 2015, 06:16:52 PM
David - we grow quite a few species including arboreus, chamissonis, variicolor and albifrons. They all get lupin aphid, which is a sort of supercharged version of aphid specific to lupins as far as I know. I've never succeeded with the really small species - I wonder if Michal Hoppel grows them in Poland? Hot dry summers and cold winters must be closest to what they need. I don't think any are really long lived but even to grow them for a couple of years is pretty exciting and they do set seed well.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: David Nicholson on September 11, 2015, 06:59:02 PM
Thanks Tim. I grow a few of the large garden hybrids but have never had any infestatations on them. I see from the RHS Link below that the Lupin aphid was introduced here from North America!

https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=653 (https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=653)
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: astragalus on September 12, 2015, 01:48:47 AM
Sorry, David. :-[ :-[
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: meanie on September 12, 2015, 09:47:06 AM
Continuing the Fabaceae theme here is Sesbania punicea..................
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/762/21155345749_aa0b809920_z.jpg)

It has been very slow growing this year and it is very late blooming. Strangely this is one of this years seedlings and not last years plant.

A couple of Salvia now. The first is a real favourite from last year – Salvia urica..................
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/670/20697147844_944e0e6092_z.jpg)

The performance of this plant this year is a measure of the summer that we've had. Last year they  grew to almost two metres from seed but this year they have struggled to 80cm in the same positions.
I suspect that the next one is also suffering from the lack of daylight warmth and the cool nights that we've had this season. It has the gorgeous name of Salvia SL411 and was grown from seed from Robin Middleton.................
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5818/21132943829_c14c0cf7e0_z.jpg)

Sadly the buds are struggling to open properly now and I'm going to put it in the greenhouse at the weekend to see if it cheers up. As you can see from the photo below it has grown well and has all the makings of a nice annual or tender Salvia in a half decent summer.............
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/754/21131754780_56bf943805_z.jpg)
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: johnw on September 12, 2015, 03:45:09 PM
Always nice to have a few things of note in flower, leaf or fruit at this time of year.

Hedychium densiflorum 'Assam Orange'
Eucomis hybrid
Dianella tasmanica
Aralia elata
Sambucus canadensis

john
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: johnw on September 12, 2015, 03:51:27 PM
And a few succulents including Aeonium 'Zwartkop' in alternating fog & sun yesterday, quite extraordinary how it changes colour with the light.

john
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 12, 2015, 05:46:26 PM
Returning to the subject of the small species of lupins ( as we call them in the UK) or lupines as others refer to tem - there is a very tiny species shown, without ID, here in the NARGS forum -
https://www.nargs.org/forum/smallest-lupine (https://www.nargs.org/forum/smallest-lupine)     - sweet little thing - any ideas as to what it might be? It's found  in " the Owyhee uplands in Idaho"
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: hadacekf on September 12, 2015, 07:32:45 PM
Gentiana scabra 'Royal-Stripe' - A nice autumn flowering species.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Roma on September 12, 2015, 09:50:34 PM
Lovely, Franz.  Most unusual colour.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Jupiter on September 12, 2015, 10:12:14 PM

John I have Aeonium schwarzkopf in my front garden. I don't usually go for succulents but that one caught my eye. I like your Eucomis.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Roma on September 12, 2015, 10:44:50 PM
Attractive succulent bedding scheme, John.  Do they all have to be lifted for winter?  The pansy in the last picture looks a bit worried to be so close to the Opuntia ;D
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: johnw on September 13, 2015, 12:51:59 AM
Yes Roma many of them must come out before a frost.  The Opuntia, Semps, Jovis and some Sedums stay. I started this planting about 3 years ago and am slowly getting the hang of it; every year the growth rate and offsetting is different so the best of schemes don't always pan out. I got tired of lugging water so resorted to succulents.  The Rudbeckias that someone planted are driving  me mad, they seed everywhere by the thousands and I plan to yank all the flowering ones & the remainder of this year's seedlings out shortly.  The pansies are still sprouting from a planting someone did 5 years ago - that particular one I won't go near without a good long pair of tweezers - those glochids on O. humifusa are downright nasty.

john
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: johnw on September 13, 2015, 01:00:33 AM
John I have Aeonium schwarzkopf in my front garden. I don't usually go for succulents but that one caught my eye. I like your Eucomis.


Jamus

There are splendid new Aeoniums, one is called 'Velour' and it is much like 'Zwartkop' but it branches like mad. Granted none of them are as dark as 'Zwartkop' but 'Voodoo', Elektra' and 'Pomegranate' are pretty special in their own right.

john
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Robert on September 13, 2015, 04:51:34 AM
Returning to the subject of the small species of lupins ( as we call them in the UK) or lupines as others refer to tem - there is a very tiny species shown, without ID, here in the NARGS forum -
https://www.nargs.org/forum/smallest-lupine (https://www.nargs.org/forum/smallest-lupine)     - sweet little thing - any ideas as to what it might be? It's found  in " the Owyhee uplands in Idaho"

Under satisfactory growing conditions it is possible to casually identify many Lupinus species. Unfortunately growing conditions can vary considerably even at the same site season to season. I have been fooled too many times making a casual identification, so now I always always check completely. To make a positive identification it is necessary to check all parts of the flower and flower bracts or lack of, as well as features of the leaves and the presence or lack of stipules.

I have been in the Owyhee uplands in the past so I will take a wild guess based on the few feature I see in the photographs that it is something like Lupinus lepidus var. aridus. There are other possibilities but this might be a good place to start. Being able to examine a blooming plant will make certain identification possible. If possible I would return when they are blooming. To the NARGS member - may it be possible for you to return to the site when they are blooming. I would like to know how I did on a long shot guess.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Anthony Darby on September 13, 2015, 04:55:22 AM
Did you mean to post in the Southern Hemisphere thread John?
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: ian mcdonald on September 13, 2015, 11:18:14 AM
These are autumn crocus and cyclamen hederifolium in the garden today img 4619.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 13, 2015, 12:18:00 PM
Did you mean to post in the Southern Hemisphere thread John?

 I'm guessing he didn't!  All moved here now.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 13, 2015, 12:54:12 PM
These are autumn crocus and cyclamen hederifolium in the garden today img 4619.

  I think those are  Colchicums, Ian, rather than "crocus".  Since real autumn crocus exist, it is one of my pet  projects to call these plants by a proper name.  :)
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 13, 2015, 12:55:31 PM
Under satisfactory growing conditions it is possible to casually identify many Lupinus species. Unfortunately growing conditions can vary considerably even at the same site season to season. I have been fooled too many times making a casual identification, so now I always always check completely. To make a positive identification it is necessary to check all parts of the flower and flower bracts or lack of, as well as features of the leaves and the presence or lack of stipules.

I have been in the Owyhee uplands in the past so I will take a wild guess based on the few feature I see in the photographs that it is something like Lupinus lepidus var. aridus. There are other possibilities but this might be a good place to start. Being able to examine a blooming plant will make certain identification possible. If possible I would return when they are blooming. To the NARGS member - may it be possible for you to return to the site when they are blooming. I would like to know how I did on a long shot guess.

 Excellent to get your opinion, Robert - thank you, I'll pass that on.

We are very relieved to hear you are , for the moment at least, safe from the terrible fires in California.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: YT on September 14, 2015, 03:01:27 PM
I brought my pots out from a shed today. My new bulb season has just started :)
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 14, 2015, 03:24:17 PM
Such an exciting time, isn't it, Tatsuo?
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: ashley on September 14, 2015, 03:40:36 PM
My new bulb season has just started :)

 8) ... is that Merendera montana we can see already?
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: YT on September 14, 2015, 03:55:49 PM
Such an exciting time, isn't it, Tatsuo?

YES! it is, Maggi :)

8) ... is that Merendera montana we can see already?

Thank you for your ID, Ashley :D That mysterious flower has already opened in a shed and came from a crocus pot. I posted a question in "Colchicum 2015" thread just a few minutes ago.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: meanie on September 14, 2015, 04:40:18 PM
This is exciting (to me anyway) - the first flower buds ever are forming on my Deppea splendens.............
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5820/21399250232_8b5e02a2c5_z.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/761/20789042533_246b711216_z.jpg)
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 14, 2015, 04:50:53 PM
I take it you have this undercover, because it'll get frozen before the flowers open, won't it?
And when it's 15 ft plus - where will you keep it?? :o
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: meanie on September 14, 2015, 06:11:35 PM
I take it you have this undercover, because it'll get frozen before the flowers open, won't it?
It's not undercover yet. It will go in the greenhouse soon though just in case.

And when it's 15 ft plus - where will you keep it?? :o
It'll be kept trimmed back. Three metres is fine by me  ;D
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Matt T on September 14, 2015, 06:14:53 PM
Looking good just now are the lovely, felty leaves of this Verbascum arcturus, grown from seed collected from the Aradena Gorge, Crete (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12363.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12363.0)) and sown on 02 March this year. It has coped with our summer, albeit under the protection of the bulb frame. We'll see how it does over the winter but it guess it may flower next spring.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Matt T on September 14, 2015, 06:18:59 PM
Looking good just now are the lovely, felty leaves of this Verbascum arcturus, grown from seed collected from the Aradena Gorge, Crete (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12363.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12363.0)) and sown on 02 March this year. It has coped with our summer, albeit under the protection of the bulb frame. We'll see how it does over the winter but it guess it may flower next spring.

Forgot to say that I will be sending what remaining seed I have to the Seed Exchange this year.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Tim Ingram on September 14, 2015, 07:57:35 PM
This is a super plant Matt - grew it from JJA seed quite a while ago and here is a photo at the Chelsea Physic Garden in 2014.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: vivienne Condon on September 15, 2015, 01:31:42 PM
Ohhh I will be putting my name down for that one Matt as that will take our heat, does not look to tall either. It's hard to tell from your photo Tim to what height does it grow please.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: ian mcdonald on September 15, 2015, 06:05:56 PM
Maggi, autumn crocus is a common name for Colchicum. As taxonomists are always changing the scientific names of wildlife (because they have nothing better to do) I prefer to use the common names. It could be said that different areas use different common names but in my garden I keep to the names I have always used.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Tim Ingram on September 15, 2015, 06:08:09 PM
Something like a foot to eighteen inches Vivienne. The violet filaments are really striking. It's a plant of cliffs and stone walls, should be good in a hot crevice garden.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 15, 2015, 06:15:39 PM
Maggi, autumn crocus is a common name for Colchicum. As taxonomists are always changing the scientific names of wildlife (because they have nothing better to do) I prefer to use the common names. It could be said that different areas use different common names but in my garden I keep to the names I have always used.

 Yes, I know it is a commonly used name, Ian. But it is not correct - colchicum are not crocus, they are not even in the same family. And given that there are crocus which flower in the autumn, what would they be called to avoid confusion ?
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: rgc on September 15, 2015, 06:25:07 PM
Thanks Maggi for the e-birthdaycard. Don't feel like 71.

Some pictures taken this morning.

1. 10 days ago, I posted Lilium lancifolium florepleno in the Lilium 2015 thread. Later picture of Lilium lancifolium florepleno taken from an upstairs bedroom window. 10 flowers out of the 30 buds on the main stem have now opened while 10 plus another 10 flowers out of the 25 buds on the other stems have now opened. Picture also shows some of the 35 year old 'dwarf' rhododendrons that I have been cutting back to give more space for underplanting.

2. Some late flowers on Cyclamen intaminatum in a crevice.

3. Gentians very late this year, most of my plants have not started flowering yet. Picture mostly of G. Devonhall which is the most advanced. The picture shows flowers of a much paler blue than they are in reality.

Bob
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 15, 2015, 06:37:12 PM
Many happy returns of the Day, Bob - good to hear you're not feeling your age - long may it continue!
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: ian mcdonald on September 15, 2015, 07:51:23 PM
Perhaps colchicum is only correct until next week when the next book comes out. When I write scientific articles I use scientific names but even then I will not use the very latest name. I am not prepared to buy yet another expensive book just because some of the names have been changed yet again. The only reason for changing the names of wildlife is to sell more books. It would be better and cheaper to keep the English names. There is already a movement for this. A good example of mindless name changing is Fen Violet. Previously known as Viola persicifolia. Then changed to V. stagnina. Then back to V. persicifolia and now back to V. stagnina. Many things are changed for sales rather than sense. Bluebell is another example. So who decides what is correct. The publisher who wants to sell more books.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 15, 2015, 08:14:28 PM
So long as you are callingthe Fen Violet  a Viola and not a Veratrum, Ian - the Colchicum /Crocus  divide is of that sort! 
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: ian mcdonald on September 15, 2015, 08:17:31 PM
Maggi, just like a woman to want the last word?
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 15, 2015, 08:25:22 PM
I rather resent that, Ian.
I am making a valid point about the use of one scientific name for another plant with a perfectly valid scientific name of its own. I am trying to illustrate the inconsistency of the use of Autumn Crocus for what is an Autumn Colchicum. It is not  a matter of a name which has changed or even might change - it is a different plant from a different family and it is this kind of erroneous naming which I have observed to be of considerable confusion to people over the years. 

Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: johnralphcarpenter on September 15, 2015, 08:34:37 PM
Common names are unreliable and confusing and vary not only from country to country but within a country. Take Galium aparine, aka cleavers, clivers, goosegrass, catchweed, stickyweed, robin-run-the-hedge, sticky willy, sticky burr, sticky willow, velcro weed, and grip grass. We had friends over from Canada recently, and while showing them around the garden I mentioned that there are only three (arguably two) species of cedar - Cedrus libani, cedar of Lebanon; Cedrus deodara, Deodar cedar, and Cedrus atlantica, Atlas cedar, said by some to be Cedrus libani subsp. atlantica. Plus two other subspecies of Cedrus libani, subsp. stenocoma and subsp. brevifolia. What about Western Red Cedar, they said. That's not a cedar, I said, it's Thuja plicata, a member of the Cypress family. Why is it called cedar then, they said. There's no answer to that. Fact is, a great many species in the Cupressaceae are also commonly referred to as cedars (in English). Like all conifers get called Pines when mostly that are not.

Lets us the proper binomial name, even if they do change too often for our liking.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: ian mcdonald on September 15, 2015, 09:54:36 PM
If the forum was an academic paper I could understand the need for the correct scientific names. This would mean that many people who use gardening as a hobby would be excluded from posting on the forum for fear of being corrected by Maggi acting as a teacher marking a pupils homework. I write academic works but as a gardener I use whatever names I choose because it is only a hobby. In my garden the plants I put a photo. of are autumn crocus and will remain so.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Tim Ingram on September 15, 2015, 10:02:48 PM
Oh Ian, that is a little silly. It is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. There is of course room for both and you only have to read Flora Britannica by Richard Mabey to see the rich heritage of common names but in this particular case Maggi is most definitely in the right and it is nothing to do with academia, just common sense.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Tristan_He on September 15, 2015, 11:31:27 PM
Colchicum, autumn crocus... Meadow saffron is another popular one but could be highly dangerous if misconstrued. One of my favourite names for these plants is naked ladies(!).

Personally I go for whatever works best - at the end of the day it's about knowing what sort of plant we are talking about. Most of the time that's the scientific name (especially for the international audience on here) but there are occasions when the common name is better known and / or more stable. 'Autumn crocus' is a well-established common name but it's a pretty misleading one and I can understand why Maggi wants to get rid of it. A bugbear of mine is people who pronounce years after 2000 as (for example 'two thousand and fifteen' rather than the previous and much shorter system of 'twenty fifteen'.

I also don't agree that scientific names need to be intimidating or are somehow only for academics. Just ask any five year old the name of their favourite dinosaur. If they can do it, so can we!
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Brian Ellis on September 16, 2015, 10:06:14 AM
Well I agree wholeheartedly that there are times when it is alright to use common names, but, and it is a big but, surely it is best at the beginning of any conversation to use the latin name so there can be no confusion.  Personally my biggest bugbear is mail order companies who sell "Russian snowdrops" when what they are marketing is not some Galanthus panjutani but Puschkinia scilloides, so that I am confronted by people telling me they have bought the 'New Blue Russian Snowdrop'...but then I am a grumpy old man and proud of it ;D
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 16, 2015, 01:19:50 PM
It has been my experience over many years that "beginners" and "hobbyists" (as some people would call them) are keen to learn and want to know facts about the plants that interest them.  This includes knowing what a plant is and I make no apologies for continuing to spread such information as best I can.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: rgc on September 16, 2015, 03:40:24 PM
I agree that it can be disconcerting when plants names are changed, an example is Alyssum saxatile that is now Aurinia saxatile. As a retired scientist, I try to keep up, but accept that most of the public are not interested and note that firms such as Suttons seeds still sell it as Alyssum saxatile with no mention of the proper name. With DNA analysis, it is good that botanists are able to delve into the complexity of plant relationships and come up with new insights. (My PhD was into the much simpler topic of quantum mechanics!)

However the autumn crocus / Colchicum confusion is not due to any recent change of name and seems more like the geranium / pelargonium issue. The last time that I told a friend that the 'autumn crocuses' he was pointing out to me were Colchicums, he looked at me with a mixture of disbelief and lack of interest. Looking up 'autumn crocus' on Google, half of the 10 articles referred to on the first page were actually about Colchicum.

Couple of pictures taken this morning.

1. Colchicum speciosum - only Colchicum showing so far in the garden this year.

2. Very scruffy autumn crocus - only one that has flowered so far in my garden this year.

Bob
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Robert on September 17, 2015, 05:03:31 PM
[attachimg=1]

My wife wanted me to photograph and post this white Cyclamen hederifolium. It has been greeting us every day at the entrance to our home for weeks now.  Very cheery.  :)

We have Cyclamen blooming throughout the garden now and this one always catches our attention.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 17, 2015, 07:18:14 PM
Your wife is clearly a lady of taste, Robert! White C. hederifolium are always so pretty- we love them here, too - they are often the first of the hederifolium to flower.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Robert on September 17, 2015, 08:47:54 PM
Your wife is clearly a lady of taste, Robert! White C. hederifolium are always so pretty- we love them here, too - they are often the first of the hederifolium to flower.

Maggi,

My wife is also an angel.  :)  Me, Bias.  ;D  This little Cyclamen always lifts our spirits. I am glad that she encouraged me to post them. We appreciate its simple beauty in our garden.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 17, 2015, 09:13:48 PM
"simple beauty"  - yes, that's the  secret isn't it?  This pure white flower, elegantly shaped and quite small, with pretty foliage- unassuming in stature but breath-taking in its loveliness  . magical, really.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hoy on September 17, 2015, 09:26:42 PM
Very pretty Robert! Greetings to your wife ;)
None of my cyclamens have showed so far but it is still mild.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: meanie on September 18, 2015, 02:47:32 PM
Some Salvia.............
S.patens has had a good year..............
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5829/21499540322_f0b0d029a1_z.jpg)

Black and Blue has been so so..............
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/717/21322613820_aeacb88c56_z.jpg)

S.atrocyanea is becoming something of a gem in my eyes.............
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/697/20887904454_d07316ba05_z.jpg)

This S.urica has done well enough in some shade..........
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5731/21519327141_dbac8b5dfd_z.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/583/20889539953_3c2b999fb8_z.jpg)

S.miltiorrhiza has been a bit of a star this year.............
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5624/21499554972_7b3c74be2e_z.jpg)

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5812/21484444306_5df0fe6e8c_z.jpg)

The first Tricyrtis of the year (so very late) is Taiwan Adbane..............
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/768/21519382281_91eff46d22_z.jpg)

Tulbaghia violacea is still in flower - I'm usually harvesting the seeds now!
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/637/21510736575_5866ae9b41_z.jpg)

And finally, Impatiens kilimanjari...............
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5624/20889600333_52cfd511bb_z.jpg)
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Robert on September 18, 2015, 03:10:53 PM
Meanie,

It is very nice to see all the Salvias on your postings this season. Here the drought has taken its toll on the water loving species. Species such as S. patens, S. gauranitica, etc. are surviving, barely, and that is about it.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: meanie on September 18, 2015, 03:56:13 PM
Meanie,

It is very nice to see all the Salvias on your postings this season. Here the drought has taken its toll on the water loving species. Species such as S. patens, S. gauranitica, etc. are surviving, barely, and that is about it.
Rain is one thing I've had plenty of this year! Sunlight and warmth however have been totally absent  :(
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: johnw on September 19, 2015, 02:44:53 AM
Out today and a big advance for us as standard Nerine bowdenii will not be in flower till November at best. And this one's more winter hardy as well!

Nerine bowdenii ssp. wellsii ex AGS seed 1993 Harry Hay, cw Mont aux Sources, SA.  Thanks to GerdK for that seed in December 2008.

johnw - +20c @ 22:39
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Robert on September 19, 2015, 07:45:53 PM
We are in our 4th year of drought. These are a few plants that I found interesting today.

>1 Salvia 'Bee's Bliss' - It has been in the ground about 20 years now. I have watered it about once a month this summer. It thrives on this watering schedule. It is said to be tender to frost below 20-25 F (-6.5 to -4 C). It has been completely hardy for us even at 18 F (-8 C). Salvia clevelandii shows sighs of frost stress below 20 F (-6.5 C), however it always recovers.

>2 Salvia sonomensis - I planted some seedlings out in the late spring, watered them a few times. After that they received no irrigation at all for the remainder of the summer. They are all doing fine. One even bloomed!

>3 Eschscholzia caespitosa - With this annual I leave a few as "tumble weeds" to spread their seeds around. There were also the annuals Leptosiphon (Linanathus) bicolor and Platystemon californicus, Cream Cups in this area. I am hoping that they will return next spring too.

>4 Wyethia reticulata - Two good looking plants ready to be planted out in the dry garden this fall. I feel sure that there will be flowers next spring/summer. Of coarse, I will not need to irrigate them.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: meanie on September 21, 2015, 09:41:58 AM
We are in our 4th year of drought. These are a few plants that I found interesting today.

>1 Salvia 'Bee's Bliss' - It has been in the ground about 20 years now. I have watered it about once a month this summer. It thrives on this watering schedule. It is said to be tender to frost below 20-25 F (-6.5 to -4 C). It has been completely hardy for us even at 18 F (-8 C). Salvia clevelandii shows sighs of frost stress below 20 F (-6.5 C), however it always recovers.

>2 Salvia sonomensis - I planted some seedlings out in the late spring, watered them a few times. After that they received no irrigation at all for the remainder of the summer. They are all doing fine. One even bloomed!

>3 Eschscholzia caespitosa - With this annual I leave a few as "tumble weeds" to spread their seeds around.

Respect to your Salvias for hanging in there. What I love about growing them is that as you get "in the loop" with other growers the choice of seed really opens up. Growing from seed allows me to experiment - three S.urica have been disappointing this year compared to last year but the one that I tried in a different spot has really done well. SL411 has been a disappointment in terms of blooms but I reckon that in a good suller it'll make an outstanding plant.

The Eschscholzia caespitosa that you sent me have grown well but steadfastly refused to bloom  ???

The following was a bit of a surprise when I took the plants off of the top shelf of the greenhouse yesterday - Calydorea (Cypella) amabilis................
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/633/20970153543_b98ae9e08f_z.jpg)

The reason that it caught me out is that the seed was only sown in January so the last thing that I was expecting were flowers.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Pauli on September 21, 2015, 03:48:59 PM
Androsace lanuginosa flowering quite well here after a hot and rather dry summer
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Steve Garvie on September 21, 2015, 06:23:48 PM
Contrasting red & blue, Philesia magellanica and Gentiana sino-ornata.
Both in flower in the same raised "peatbed".
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5787/21259828908_f9dbe4e07a_o.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/631/21456161141_e1ea1ae94e_o.jpg)
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: David Nicholson on September 21, 2015, 06:42:19 PM
Man Utd v Man City ;D Lovely stuff Steve.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Tristan_He on September 21, 2015, 09:16:56 PM
It's a bit of an odd September here. A mixture of things that should be out in spring re-flowering, probably due to a mix of a wet summer and being transplanted (I had to move much of my rockery this spring to a new location due to terminal weed infestation). Here are a few of the things flowering at the 'wrong' time of year.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

Scutellaria sevanensis, from Plant World seed. I really like this plant.

[attachimg=3]

Primula auricula - I think this variety is called 'Old Mustard'.

[attachimg=4]

Campanula x pulloides 'G.F. Wilson'. Personally I don't think this looks much like C. pulla. Nice plant though!

[attachimg=5]

Erodium chrysanthum. I like this yellow form much more than the salmony pink variant. It needs regular division or it will fizzle out.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Tristan_He on September 21, 2015, 09:33:39 PM
Here are some of the usual September suspects. Not many of them have any business on a rock gardens forum, but I like them!

[attachimg=1]

Agapanthus sp. from Silverhill seeds, label long since lost. Bone hardy on our North Wales hilside though, and a good flowerer even though it doesn't get much sun.

[attachimg=2]

Rudbeckia fulgida - probably 'Goldsturm'. I love the vibrancy of these late autumn daisies, and they are great for insects too.

[attachimg=3]

Japanese anemones. Really these are in far too good a spot in the garden, and I regularly threaten to dig them all up so I can put some choicer plants there. But how can you dig something up that produces this?

[attachimg=4]

Peacock butterfly, feeding up on nectar so it can survive the winter.

[attachimg=5]

Aster x herveyi 'Twilight', a great plant for dry shade. 
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Tristan_He on September 21, 2015, 09:45:34 PM
[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

Nepeta subsessilis, two forms from seed, again from Plant World. I prefer the blue form - the pink is a bit washed out for me.

[attachimg=3]

Colchicum sp. again label lost but possibly pannonicum? I'm very fond of Colchicums but in our wet climate they do really need to be grown in grass so the flowers don't flop. And to be honest, I find many of the various forms a bit same-y. Still, with the dew on them like this on a beautiful autumn morning, they are very hard to beat.

[attachimg=4]

Campanula pyramidalis 'Alba'. Unfortunately I have only two seedlings and only one is flowering this year - as they seem to be self-incompatible I'm going to have to sow some more. Beautiful thing though. We saw the wild blue form growing in Slovenia in very rocky limestone habitats.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Robert on September 22, 2015, 12:46:15 AM
Respect to your Salvias for hanging in there. What I love about growing them is that as you get "in the loop" with other growers the choice of seed really opens up. Growing from seed allows me to experiment - three S.urica have been disappointing this year compared to last year but the one that I tried in a different spot has really done well. SL411 has been a disappointment in terms of blooms but I reckon that in a good suller it'll make an outstanding plant.

The Eschscholzia caespitosa that you sent me have grown well but steadfastly refused to bloom  ???

The following was a bit of a surprise when I took the plants off of the top shelf of the greenhouse yesterday - Calydorea (Cypella) amabilis................


Meanie,

 ??? I see what you mean. I am surprised that Eschscholzia caespitosa did not bloom for you.

I will have more on our California Native Salvias at some point. For now, I will be off line for awhile. Other stuff to deal with.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: johnw on September 24, 2015, 12:00:04 AM
This no-name selection of Liriope platyphyllus is a great improvement in colour.  The source was Weston Nurseries in Massachusetts.

johnw
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: ian mcdonald on September 24, 2015, 10:46:09 PM
img 1000504 is a comma in the garden today.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on September 25, 2015, 10:18:33 AM
Out today and a big advance for us as standard Nerine bowdenii will not be in flower till November at best. And this one's more winter hardy as well!

Nerine bowdenii ssp. wellsii ex AGS seed 1993 Harry Hay, cw Mont aux Sources, SA.  Thanks to GerdK for that seed in December 2008.
johnw - +20c @ 22:39

Yesterday I opened a bag with dry stored seeds of this species collected late in 2014  in order to prepare them for distribution.
It seems this will make no sense - just planted them!

Gerd
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Matt T on September 25, 2015, 10:23:33 AM
Some seeds just want to grow!
A nice sight Gerd, if frustrating.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: fermi de Sousa on September 25, 2015, 03:42:41 PM
Yesterday I opened a bag with dry stored seeds of this species collected late in 2014  in order to prepare them for distribution.
It seems this will make no sense - just planted them!
Gerd
Hi Gerd,
I believe they are called "recalcitrant" and germinate without going into a dormancy so cannot be stored as dry seed. If not planted they either dry out and die or put all the stored energy from the fleshy seed to produce a small bulb. I've discovered similar bulblets!
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 25, 2015, 03:50:40 PM
img 1000504 is a comma in the garden today.

 2015 has been a poor year for butterflies in our garden generally - but I don't think I have EVER seen a Comma here. Beautiful butterfly which makes me envious when I see  such photos.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Tristan_He on September 25, 2015, 05:58:05 PM
Yes, it's been a lousy year for butterflies in general. Numbers well down and not seen some species at all.  :(

Wall browns seem to be doing quite well for some reason though. Odd as they are supposed to like warmth!
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Tristan_He on September 26, 2015, 02:30:24 PM
Nice weather today, and duly rewarded with an explosion of late butterflies. We counted 28 today, mostly on Buddleia. 18 tortoiseshells, plus small numbers of peacocks, painted ladies, red admirals and wall browns.

Not the spectacular numbers we sometimes get, but given the cold wet summer, an unexpected surprise!  :D

29 Sep Update: now at least 16 red admirals and 22 tortoiseshells.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 26, 2015, 02:31:35 PM
Wow, I'm impressed by such bounty!
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: K-D Keller on September 27, 2015, 01:56:38 PM
Late September pictures

Arum pictum, an autumn flower of Eritrichium canum, Gentiana sino-ornata, Hypericum kazdaghensis (with a long blooming time) and Sternbergia lutea.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Giles on September 27, 2015, 08:37:56 PM
I like your Eritrichium canum..  is it easy to grow?
I've got some seed of it in the fridge for sowing next year.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on September 28, 2015, 09:11:41 AM
Hi Gerd,
I believe they are called "recalcitrant" and germinate without going into a dormancy so cannot be stored as dry seed. If not planted they either dry out and die or put all the stored energy from the fleshy seed to produce a small bulb. I've discovered similar bulblets!
cheers
fermi

Hi Fermi,
In this case I believe the germination is caused by the higher humidity during storage. In other years storing seeds (in another room) was no problem. I guess building small bulbs just now was their ' reminiscence ' of the plants  SH origin.
I am curious about if they will continue growing.

Gerd
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: K-D Keller on September 28, 2015, 08:21:56 PM
Hello Giles,

it is the first time I grow Eritrichium canum. Sown in January, germination in April, first flowers in June and seeds in July/August. A "highspeed alpine plant"  ;). But after setting seeds the whole plant dies away. And now in September I have fresh green leaves and flowers.  I don`t know if this is the normal way.  Till now an easy plant, not tricky.

K-D
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Giles on September 28, 2015, 08:28:07 PM
K-D
'high speed' and 'easy'   
Thankyou
:) :) :)
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: ian mcdonald on September 28, 2015, 08:37:57 PM
Not sure where to put these, so, just in case you were not awake at 3.30am...
img. 1000510 is going....img 1000518....going.....img1000524...gone, almost...img 1000533...oh no it,s not.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 28, 2015, 08:40:39 PM
Would loved to have had a clear view like that, Ian - it was cloudy here so only the briefest glimpses.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hoy on September 28, 2015, 09:25:45 PM
I woke up and looked stright at a big red moon through the sleeping room window (faces west) but I was too late and it was just a normal setting moon :-\  (But it was very big and redish ;) )
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Cyril L on September 28, 2015, 09:33:38 PM
Some plants in flower now.  Gentian ornata (Euroseeds), Pulsatilla sugawarii (Yuzawa Engei nursery) and Nototriche macleanii.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Robert on September 29, 2015, 01:00:32 AM
Not sure where to put these, so, just in case you were not awake at 3.30am...
img. 1000510 is going....img 1000518....going.....img1000524...gone, almost...img 1000533...oh no it,s not.

We missed most of the show due to cloud cover.   :'(   However later the clouds moved on revealing the extra bright full moon. Very beautiful. It wish that I could have spent time in the garden as it was a warm evening. Anything with white flowers would have been stunningly bright.


edit by maggi - oops sorry, I hit the wrong button. :-[
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on September 29, 2015, 11:58:49 AM
The Pulsatilla sugawarii has a very intense colour -  very nice, Cyril. 
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Roma on September 30, 2015, 10:59:30 PM
Sisyrinchium palmatum

I planted one out last year.  It had lots of flowers but I never saw it look like this one in the frame yesterday about 6pm after a very warm day.  The one in the garden looked dead in the spring but produced one feeble shoot.  Not hardy I'm afraid.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Mike Ireland on October 01, 2015, 10:45:43 AM
Seems to have been a very good year for Allium callimischon haemostictum.
Flowering very well in the garden & in a pot.
Cyclamen cilicium also doing well in the garden.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Matt T on October 01, 2015, 10:53:56 AM
Seems to have been a very good year for Allium callimischon haemostictum.
Flowering very well in the garden & in a pot.
Cyclamen cilicium also doing well in the garden.

 :o Understatement. That Allium is a wonderful potful!
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Pauli on October 01, 2015, 11:40:40 AM
Cyril,

the Pulsatilla is superb! If it sets seed despite the late season.... ;)
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on October 01, 2015, 12:06:42 PM
:o Understatement. That Allium is a wonderful potful!

 I agree - I think it may be my favourite allium - the markings are so pretty and the whole thing is a neat size.
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Cyril L on October 01, 2015, 11:31:25 PM
The Pulsatilla sugawarii has a very intense colour -  very nice, Cyril.
Yes Maggi, I like it very much despite the off-season flowering.  I assume it normally flowers earlier but this is the first flower since I got the plant last year.
Cyril,
the Pulsatilla is superb! If it sets seed despite the late season.... ;)
Pauli, I have self-pollinated the flower but don't hold much hope it will set seeds, but you never know...
Title: Re: September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere
Post by: felix Lin on December 06, 2019, 04:56:57 AM
The first Tricyrtis of the year (so very late) is Taiwan Adbane..............
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/768/21519382281_91eff46d22_z.jpg)

Tricyrtis formosana,
Tricyrtis formosana Baker is an accepted name,
you may check your label now,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricyrtis_formosana

Tricyrtis ravenii C.I Peng & C.L. Tiang
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