Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: fermi de Sousa on August 02, 2015, 01:36:51 PM

Title: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: fermi de Sousa on August 02, 2015, 01:36:51 PM
Is this Galanthus plicatus?
It seems to have pleated leaves,
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Maggi Young on August 02, 2015, 04:24:29 PM
I saw Anthony  querying that, fermi - looks pleated to me- but what do I know? I've asked a woman who knows though.................. :)
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: emma T on August 02, 2015, 04:55:07 PM
Going on those photos I'd say yes plicatus
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Alan_b on August 02, 2015, 06:59:42 PM
Elwesii sometimes has pleats and the top of the leaf makes me think of elwesii.  Can you get a photograph that shows the base of the leaves and whether one enfolds the other?
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: emma T on August 02, 2015, 09:02:07 PM
Yes a close up of the base of the leaves would prove it is or isn't  ,outer leaf wrapped round the inner one of the pair (supervolute) would be elwesii . Which sometimes has tram lines on the leaves
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Alan_b on August 02, 2015, 11:35:54 PM
Yes, it's a facet of elwesii that has always puzzled me.  Some have leaves with very clear folds/tram-lines whilst others don't show this.  I think it varies from one cultivar to another but it rarely, if ever, gets mentioned in descriptions 
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: fermi de Sousa on August 03, 2015, 12:38:08 AM
Thanks,
I'll try to get a close up of the base tomorrow morning before work, otherwise it'll be the weekend!
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Anthony Darby on August 03, 2015, 12:07:28 PM
My seedlings of elwesii have the folds, but inwards, quite opposite from plicatus.
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Alan_b on August 03, 2015, 01:11:57 PM
I would say the folds in the picture are inwards (so the edges of the leaf are angled up towards the sky rather than down towards the ground) and this is particularly apparent at the tip of the leaf.  That's what made me think elwesii.
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Maggi Young on August 03, 2015, 01:32:14 PM
I would say the folds in the picture are inwards (so the edges of the leaf are angled up towards the sky rather than down towards the ground) and this is particularly apparent at the tip of the leaf.  That's what made me think elwesii.

 That seems to be the case in only one of the leaves shown, though, Alan.
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Alan_b on August 03, 2015, 08:30:23 PM
One is enough, Maggi.
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Lesley Cox on August 04, 2015, 05:34:28 AM
I just took this quick photo of my own single plicatus (the other bits are of Ery. tuolumnense and shouldn't be there). The two leaves are definitely face to face, no sign of folding at all. I also took one of the tip but got the focus wrong and it's bitter out so it can wait. but again, no sign of the "hood" just the tip a little bit paler and slightly thickened.
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Hillview croconut on August 04, 2015, 06:52:03 AM
The hooded leaf apex is not a plicatus trait. Also the leaves are very grey. I'm punting elwesii by a country mile. 

Cheers, Marcus
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Hillview croconut on August 04, 2015, 08:09:13 AM
PS Or a hybrid of it (with plicatus) M
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: fermi de Sousa on August 04, 2015, 10:12:33 AM
Well it doesn't show it very clearly on the pic, but the leaf bases are enfolded!
So, it is either a hybrid or a form of pleated leaf G. elwesii.
Thanks for all the help in sorting it out - now to write out another label!
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Matt T on August 04, 2015, 12:25:59 PM
I'm super pleased with my first venture into chipping and twinscaling. On 31 May I sliced up my fattest G. peshmenii bulb (*gulp* - there were two nice big offsets left in the pot). Despite meticulous hygiene a few appear to have rotted/fungused during incubation, but following Anne W's excellent tutorial at the Early Bulb Day last year I ensured none were touching so it didn't spread. Here are the results, with some very nice bulbils showing. I'll pot these up today and put them out in the bulb frame.
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Jupiter on August 04, 2015, 01:16:03 PM
Beautiful pictures Matt, thanks for showing these.. I can't imagine having the courage to try that with my precious peshmenii! You're a brave man. Do you use bleach at all in the procedure? From experience plant tissues can tolerate weak bleach solutions without ill effects.
How long would you expect until the bulbils are flowering size?
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Matt T on August 04, 2015, 01:44:54 PM
Hi Jamus. I had a couple of decent offsets in reserve, as well as some seed off this plant this year, so I thought "what the heck".

I maintained a sterile working environment by cleaning all surfaces (including the bulb itself) with a strong alcohol. The bulb was peeled, washed, cut up on a clean ceramic tile with a sharp blade which was regularly cleaned. The chips/twinscales were then soaked in a fungicide prior to going into the vermiculite - I'm limited to what I can find off the shelf at the local garden centre and use a 'cocktail' of two different systemic fungicides (containing triticonazol and myclobutanil). I didn't incubate them at as warm a temperature as usually advocated as I don't have a propagator, but they were in the high teens on the hot water tank in our under stair cupboard. I've just given them a second fungicide soak before potting up now.

I'm not sure how long I'll have to wait for flowering - I'll post here when they do. I think folk usually say 2 years from chips? Some of the bulbils are tiny at this stage, but others are a decent size. It is noticeable that the larger (and in some cases more than one) bulbils are on the chips rather than the smaller twinscales. If I end up with a potful of a dozen flowering size bulbs within within 3 years I'd be overjoyed.

Go on, give it a go!
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: johnstephen29 on August 04, 2015, 06:55:51 PM
Well done Matt.
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Brian Ellis on August 04, 2015, 07:00:35 PM
Very satisfying isn't it Matt, and great to see them growing to maturity.  Well worth a go.

Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Hillview croconut on August 05, 2015, 12:45:45 AM
Well done Mat! It's very satisfying when it all comes together.

I follow pretty much the same routine with a few minor variations.

I use perlite instead of vermiculite. I personally think it provides more aeration and prevents "sticking".

I use bleach. I used to use formalin but discovered it might damage my health.

I sometimes use Flowers of Sulphur as a second line  antiseptic especially where I cannot eliminate all "tackiness" from the chips.

I don't know if others have come across this problem?  I find G. plicatus and it's various selections,  etc,  exude a lot of sticky gum when cut.  I find this especially so with the yellows. I have to keep on soaking in cold water and then slaking to rid the segments of this glue. If one doesn't it's cactus for the chips.

Anyone found a better solution to this problem?

Cheers,  Marcus

Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Hillview croconut on August 05, 2015, 12:52:19 AM
PS I also find that the closer I chip to the Xmas-New Year Period, in the Southern Hemisphere, the better the results.  M
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Lesley Cox on August 06, 2015, 03:13:10 AM

I maintained a sterile working environment by cleaning all surfaces (including the bulb itself) with a strong alcohol.

And the chipper? :P
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Hillview croconut on August 06, 2015, 08:32:10 AM
Yes, I was going to ask whether whisky was the preferred weapon of choice.  M
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Matt T on August 06, 2015, 10:44:37 AM
Yes, I was going to ask whether whisky was the preferred weapon of choice.  M
And the chipper? :P

If the suggested antiseptic had been applied to myself, I'd very much doubt that I'd have had any success at all!  ;D

I'm all out of ethanol so I actually used cheap supermarket vodka. I believe you can also use methylated spirits, but I'd be worried about too strong a solution damaging the plant tissues.
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Brian Ellis on August 06, 2015, 11:41:44 AM
I use surgical spirit which is no problem.
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Lesley Cox on August 07, 2015, 06:03:31 AM
I use surgical spirit which is no problem.

Internally? Another one on the hard stuff? ;D
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: fermi de Sousa on August 09, 2015, 11:43:33 AM
More Galanthus elwesii in a different part of the garden which gets some water during the summer,
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: annew on August 09, 2015, 11:06:05 PM
Congratulations, Matt - you were paying attention!
Regarding the wallpaper paste-like goo exudation problem - I try not to leave the chips in the fungicide solution any longer than 5 minutes, and this minimises the yukky problem. Gives me the creeps. :-X
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: t00lie on August 21, 2015, 11:59:38 AM
A study of water tension on Galanthus today at lunch time .......
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: annew on August 26, 2015, 10:46:40 AM
Great photo, Dave!
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: t00lie on August 28, 2015, 07:39:50 AM
Great photo, Dave!

Thanks Anne --it's been a very good snowdrop season the only 'downer' being G.'Wendy's Gold showing good colour only a day away from being photographed having it's head chopped off by a native parrot .It's a long story --our dog loose ,owners go away, hole in aviary ......dog shot...lol no just kidding.

Anyway here's a few photos from around the garden .Sorry I don't know the names . :-[  The bamboo stakes identify where there are one or two Trilliums . ::)
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: t00lie on August 28, 2015, 07:43:17 AM
Last few .
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Brian Ellis on August 28, 2015, 10:03:12 AM
Very nice Dave, you have got us geared up for the autumn snowdrops in the northern hemisphere :D
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: t00lie on August 28, 2015, 11:55:53 PM
Very nice Dave, you have got us geared up for the autumn snowdrops in the northern hemisphere :D

Thanks Brian
Most of the names are unknown to me because I have been so lax with labels when splitting and placing heaps around the garden and so it's all a mess nomenclature wise, not helped further when last week I was given 9 clumps of different Galanthus from a friend who's garden I have been working in and I declined her offer of IDs ....... :-[ :-[       
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Lesley Cox on August 29, 2015, 12:03:00 AM
the only 'downer' being G.'Wendy's Gold showing good colour only a day away from being photographed having it's head chopped off by a native parrot .

Isn't it always the very best or rarest they go for. How do they KNOW?
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Lesley Cox on August 29, 2015, 12:08:41 AM
The charming - and generous - Anne W sent me seed a couple of years ago of Galanthus 'Primrose Warburg.' A very few germinated last year in the winter and I was thrilled with that because three possibles have much hope attached. However, this winter, even though the seeds were the same age and sown on the same day in the same pot, all the rest (17) are up over this last week. Most are bright green but some have pale green almost yellowish foliage (just the first leaves of course). I hope this may suggest that those ones may have yellow markings. :)
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Maggi Young on August 29, 2015, 07:25:03 PM
From a Facebook post by Mick Martin

"FOR INFORMATION.

A new disease affecting snowdrops is being studied by teams from the RHS and the Warwick Crop Centre according to the RHS September edition of The Garden magazine.

It was thought that it could be a species of 'Ilyonectria' fungus which presents as a distortion on tulip foliage. However scientists now believe it to be a new species; more work is being carried out. A paper will be published next year re further information and advice for gardeners."

Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Alan_b on August 29, 2015, 08:32:57 PM
Galanthophile David Way brought this to the attention of the RHS because, unfortunately, his snowdrops suffered from an unidentified disease when he moved them to the garden of his new house. 
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: t00lie on September 01, 2015, 08:26:45 AM
Came across this beauty in the garden yesterday .Not sure where it came from .
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Brian Ellis on September 01, 2015, 09:27:32 AM
Came across this beauty in the garden yesterday .Not sure where it came from .

...but does it matter Dave?  The point is that it is a beauty and you enjoy it, so do we (just in case you hadn't noticed ;D ).
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: t00lie on September 01, 2015, 09:43:41 AM
...but does it matter Dave?  The point is that it is a beauty and you enjoy it, so do we (just in case you hadn't noticed ;D ).
8)
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Anthony Darby on September 01, 2015, 01:22:49 PM
Makes me think of Hercule Poirot!  8)
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Maggi Young on September 01, 2015, 04:58:17 PM
Came across this beauty in the garden yesterday .Not sure where it came from .


Came across it quite suddenly, I reckon - it looks well surprised!  ;) 8) :D
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: annew on September 02, 2015, 10:10:45 AM
Makes me think of Hercule Poirot!  8)
Me too!
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: annew on September 02, 2015, 10:11:12 AM
The charming - and generous - Anne W sent me seed a couple of years ago of Galanthus 'Primrose Warburg.' A very few germinated last year in the winter and I was thrilled with that because three possibles have much hope attached. However, this winter, even though the seeds were the same age and sown on the same day in the same pot, all the rest (17) are up over this last week. Most are bright green but some have pale green almost yellowish foliage (just the first leaves of course). I hope this may suggest that those ones may have yellow markings. :)
Fingers crossed, Lesley!
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: Lesley Cox on September 04, 2015, 12:56:45 AM
Indeed they are Anne. :D We're told it's spring now. The garden is full of super little things like narcissi, cyclamen, irises, primroses and other species of Primula. The witch hazels are nearly finished as are the snowdrops BUT the temperatures here in the south are dropping again, down to 4C today and sleet in the air. Winter doesn't seem to be over but I'M OVER IT! >:(
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: melager on September 04, 2015, 09:54:30 AM
now now Leslie I want some more cold days to get some more chilling for my seeds that I have just sown ;D ;D
Title: Re: Galanthus August 2015
Post by: melager on September 04, 2015, 09:58:24 AM
Very nice Dave, I am just starting to realize the huge variation in galanthus and they are lovely
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