Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: Maggi Young on February 05, 2008, 12:15:51 AM
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Right, this will sort the men from the boys, the girls from the women and the cart from the horse.... or somesuch.....
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In this attractive receptacle, are twenty-eight different snowdrops.
So, who can tell us which varieties these might be ?
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Maggi, do you never sleep? Okay, here goes...
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Sorry, Maggi, I can't see most of them clearly enough to even start guessing what they are. All I can spot are (I think) Bertram Anderson, Magnet, A Greatorex double (maybe Dionysus or Ophelia), nivalis flore-pleno, John Gray, Galatea, S. Arnott, and the big tall one in the middle looks like Washfield Colesbourne but could be a completely different elwesii or elwesii x plicatus. Best I can do after a long evening getting book samples ready to send off to overseas clients and UK book store chains. Stuffing envelopes is sooooo boring! And needs so much wine to keep my envelope-licking tongue wet (nah, they're all pre-glued envelopes - that was just an excuse. Hic! Now I've got the munchies. Where's the choccie biccies?)
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Impossible to identify all of them from one angle like that. If anyone CAN do it then they either owned them, or else had a good look at them in person and wrote down the names!! ;D
And Maggi.... for someone who was busy you've obviously got too much time on your hands!! ;D :P
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So few, Martin? Tsk Tsk! Must do better...
Funny how quickly we get used to conveniences such as pre-gummed sticky things, isn't it? I was writing a card to Peg Crosland earlier this evening ( Peg is a Grande Dame of SRGC...{ but no diva... a sweeter person you couldn't hope to meet}... her late husband was the famous grower and exhibitor, Jack Crosland, a man for whom pleiones, cypripedium and a zillion other tricky plants, grew like the proverbial weeds)and discovered I had forgotten how ghastly some envelope glue can be.... YUCK!
Dear Peg is in hospital, having fallen and broken a hip and her wrist... very nasty fall and she is still thinking first about others and not herself..... her first question to a friend on his arrival to visit her in hospital... the same day as her fall.... was how did the (SRGC) meeting go on Tuesday? What a woman, Jack was lucky to have her as a wife and we are all aware that we are blessed to have her as a friend.
I am sure her many friends in the alpine world will wish her well.
Ghastly glue nearlyput me off my supper....but not quite....I went out for supper with my dear chum, Pumpkin, known to many of you as Wee Helen.... we went to a super seafood restaurant and scoffed yummy scallops, tasty sea breamm and all sorts of other fishy delights......See, I do get out sometimes.....
Yo'dthink after that I would be content, but it seems that a late walk with Lily and some time spent fiddling away here with Forum moves etc. builds up a new appetite and so, as I was reading Martin's post about getting the munchies... I was having a late snack ! Is there any wonder I'm built like two ton tessie? NO! 8)
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Third from the left is a Galanthus.....
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Seventh from the right is NOT a Crocus.....
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Dear Maggie, I am so glad that you have now got this madness for snowdrops, I suppose that we are all touched with this and maybe it is what keeps us sane???. Please pass on my very best wishes to Peg a grand dame indeed who always asks how everyone else is, give her a hug from me, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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I see John Gray, nivalis fl pl and either Warei or Viridapice - just now cant remember which of the latter two have the biggest spathe.
When Advising people who email me about what to buy I tell them dont buy single marked snowdrops. Buy distinctive flowers that you can recognise without a label
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Hi all test your skill with this find made last year and I kept quiet about it to see if it would come up again this year which it now has far to wet to take a picture so here it is?? cheers Ian the Christie kind
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That's lovely, Ian. Six outers and no inners? Amazing!
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I didn't spot a green-tipped one in the vase last night, Mark, but you're right - I can see viridapice hiding behind the stem of the double in the middle. How'd I miss it? (don't say the wine, Maggi - probably true!)
Most of those single-marked ones could be just about anything. You have a point about not recommending all the many different (or rather not so different) single-mark snowdrops, Mark, but surely there are some classic single-marks that everyone should have, like Arnott.
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Okay Maggi, I'll try to do better - I think I now also see (in the light of day and without the benefit of the wine) Lady Beatrix Stanley, Jaquenetta, and possibly Three Ships (though it must have been a late flower to have been out with all those others, so it probably isn't).
Now I'm going to stop staring at the damn picture. No more! I've got work to do. >:(
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Ian, that's a beautiful snowdrop you have there. I see some traces of green, I think. Would that be on the inside of three of the petals? If so then it is a very good poculiform snowdrop where the inner petals have taken on most of the characteristics of the outer petals - to the point where they are barely distinguishable.
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Ian, it doesn't seem quite the right petal shape for a poculiform nivalis (very rounded and incurved). Is it perhaps a poc. plicatus? Or even a poc. nivalis x plicatus hybrid?
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And it opens up so wide. Some of the poculiform nivalis, like Angelique, are quite reluctant to open up anything like that much.
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What ever it is I'm first ( ???) in the queue. What kind of whisky do you drink Ian? ;)
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Ian, that is beautiful - almost looks like a crocus flower to me. Maybe with that find you can turn even more SRGC'ers over to the white side. ;)
regards
John
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At first glance it looks like Leucojum tingitanum, but they're multiple per scape. I know, I ;Dknow.... I've just commited treason, comparing the two genus like that. :-[
'Tis very nice though!!
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Sadly, the news of dear Peg Crosland is the worst: Peg passed peacefully away last evening, actually before I even made my post. Her nephew and SRGC friends had seen her and spoken with her earlier in the day and were sitting with her in the evening, though she was unconscious then.Shortly after they arrived home from the hospital they got the news that Peg had died. It was a long life and one where Peg found only friends over her 93 years... not many can say that! She is spared further suffering but we will miss her very much.
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Hi Maggie thanks for your call to let me know about our dear friend Peg, they just don't make them like that anymore.
Hi to all :the odd Galanthus was growing amongst other G. nivalis and strange as it may seem no other species were around but we did see several other clumps of good poculiform and some almost between, we intend to have another close look soon. I have seen a similar snowdrop named G. Sandhill Gate which looks like what I have posted and I will post another pic with this so maybe something strange going on in this colony. Anthony we will try and chip this if possible and as for Whisky well any malt that is wet?? cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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That's a really unique and lovely snowdrop. This one seems to be the whiter of the two you showed earlier.
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My Angeliques open very wide this year and are missing their pips
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Now I see Mark's pic of Angelique - Ian's new snowdrop is sooooo different.
As I said before; beautiful! And unique.
John
p.s. Ian, please think of the SRGC'ers when you first distribute this snowdrop (I am sure I can find some wet malt to send your way ;))
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My Angeliques open very wide this year and are missing their pips
Very nice, Mark. 'Angeliques' plural - I'm impressed! I ordered my first bulb this year. I read that even in the warmth of the RHS hall when it got its preliminary commendation, 'Angelique' was reluctant to open up wide. But I've also read that it's not a clone but a number of similar seedlings bulked up together as a grex, so there's likely to be at least some variation amongst them - maybe you're lucky and got one that opens well.
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Yes, John, I still think Ian's flower has very nice, rounded, incurved segments for a poculiform nivalis. I don't grow them myself, but what little I've seen of them (mostly in pics) they generally seem slimmer and less generous in the petal than Ian's find.
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Pay attention, chaps! You're supposed to be identifying all these snowdrops... what's keeping you?
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Pay attention, chaps! You're supposed to be identifying all these snowdrops... what's keeping you?
I've done my best, Maggi. So many you just can't see properly. But okay, I've taken another look, and I'll say (on top of my previous namings) Ketton, Ginn's Imperati, Brenda Troyle, Neil Fraser, Sophie North, Atkinsii, Sir Herbert Maxwell, and ordinary nivalis (I can't see all those, but at least some of them must be in there!
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Maggi I'll throw the question back at you. Do you have the answer?
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Oh, yes, indeedy!! Martin's got fourteen correct so far, and a few wrong. Given him the benefit of the doubt on his Greatorex double- dionysius or Ophelia.... actually, it's a Desdemona....there is no Jaquenetta or Three Ships
come now, any offers?
Luit, my secret agent, and I are finding this hugely amusing, you know!
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Yeah, but those last few were all guesses. I honestly couldn't start to name half of those in the vase 'cos you just can't see them or their marks clearly enough. And I'm not 100% sure of some of my real attempts - that huge thing in the middle, for example; I don't think it is Washfield Colesbourne (too big I think) but have no idea what it actually is (leaves would help a lot). I for one give up, Maggie. As Mark says, can you put us out of our miserable, grovelling misery and tell us then we can all go "oh of course, well now it's obvious" (or not as the case may be).
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Maggi,
I've been keeping quiet - as I haven't a clue.
Paddy
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Maggi glad you spotted that there was little stomach for the quiz except Martin and are trying to bring them back into line. I could guess at a few but to get a proper assessment I could not hope to name these without a magnifying glass, a ruler and a book. They all look nice though and the thing in the middle is definitely a vase ;D
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I dont see Sophie but I do now see Lady B Stanley
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and I'll go for straight nivalis, elwesii monostictus and plicatus plicatus.
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Yes Mark, Lady B is on the left towards the top, behind a load of others. I didn't really see Sophie North - that was just a wild guess at some that might be there that I couldn't see!
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Okay, I'll have one last look and recount then post my final, final best of what I do actually think I see. Give me a minute, Maggi.
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Like Martin said if the flowers were in focus and shown one by one ..
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could be a shadow but one looks like Ketton at 2pm
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Sorry Guys and Gals but I can only see two different ones .... single and double. There is not even a yellow one :o.
Its just Maggi and Luit having a joke with us all .... come on Maggi, come clean now :-*
BTW - there are only 2 types of crocus .... easy ones for the garden which everyone can grow and tricky ones which specialists kill slowly ;D
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Okay, my final list, going clockwise around the vase from bottom: ordinary double nivalis, Bertram Anderson, Magnet, Desdemona, Lady Beatrix Stanley, Viridapice, bloody big elwesii, John Gray, Galatea and S. Arnott. That's all I can see. Final answer.
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could be a shadow but one looks like Ketton at 2pm
I thought that might be Ketton too, but the mark over the sinus looks too thick to me. There's another one where I thought I saw a hint of Ketton but I can't be arsed to go and look at the picture again. It's driving me nuts! Maggi???? You're loving this aren't you.
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okay, Luit thinks we may be being a little hard on you fellows ( that man has a kind heart) so he has come up with a way to give you more chances.....
first batch of closer shots.....
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and some more... not all individually....
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Here's the group again...
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I'll have to look at these tomorrow. Some you still can't see the marks properly, others it's difficult without the leaves as well, and a few are really quite undistinguished snowdrops. For example, there's one with a mark like elwesii monostictus Mrs MacNamara but without seeing if the leaves are elwesii or nivalis types, it's literally impossible to say, it could just as easily be a nivalis. And that big one in the middle, without the leaves you can't even tell if it's an elwesii or a hybrid.
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I think one is Sir Herbert Maxwell (sixth pic from bottom), and another (14th pic from bottom) looks like Atkinsii and possibly Mrs MacNamara, but that's my lot for tonight.
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Much better, that's the spirit, don't let the identical little white flowers get you down.... I'm off for a
gigglecup of hot chocolate and then to bed, to dream of Crocus and the returning BD... see you all tomorrow!
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Much better, that's the spirit, don't let the identical little white flowers get you down.... I'm off for a gigglecup of hot chocolate and then to bed, to dream of Crocus and the returning BD... see you all tomorrow!
Oh I didn't say they were identical, Maggi. They're all different to my eye. It's just that some of them aren't very exciting.
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And without leaves, some of the nicer ones are difficult to pin an exact name on. Anyhoo, sweet dreams (I hope you dream of snowdrops. Ha-hah! Think snowdrops...think snowdrops...have you read this? Think snowdrops...think snowdrops...read that? Right, now you'll dream of snowdrops...nothing but snowdrops all night long...no crocus...no BD...no chocolates...just SNOWDROPS. It's all in the power of suggestion. Night, night. :)
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I heard that.... bet you dream of Smurfs!
By the way, I think the really big one is either Sickle or Washfield Colebourne... they are both there somewhere!.... ??? Night night!
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Right! I can see 'Sickle' now, on the right, about 3 o'clock behind a load of others. And the big one must be Washfield Colesbourne then, as per my original guess - but it's a very big, well-grown one!
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I think I'll dream about some nice crocus and erythroniums while you're dreaming about SNOWDROPS!!! Nice white SNOWDROPS!!! Oh, the power of suggestion is amazing. (I'll actually be dreaming about Keira Knightley).
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one might be elwesii Brodleigh form/Donald Simms
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BTW - there are only 2 types of crocus .... easy ones for the garden which everyone can grow and tricky ones which specialists kill slowly ;D
Tony,
I agree with you, dead right!
Franz
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This must be how a cat feels, after playing with a wounded mouse for ten minutes...bored :P
Here is the list of snowies in the vase.... it's up to you if you can put the names to the faces now!
Galanthus elwesii G.F. Handel
Galanthus elwesii Sickle
Galanthus elwesii Hiemalis ex Br.G.
Galanthus imperati "ginn,s form"
Galanthus nivalis
Galanthus nivalis plena
Galanthus nivalis Anglesey abby
Galanthus nivalis viridea-piece
Galanthus plicatus
Galanthus plicatus Gerard Parker'
Galanthus rizehensis
Galanthus woronowii type 1
Galanthus woronowii type 2
Galanthus X G 71
Galanthus X Galatea
Galanthus X John Gray
Galanthus X Lady Beatrix Stanley
Galanthus X Magnet
Galanthus X Mrs. Thompson
Galanthus X Washfield Colesbourne
Galanthus X Sir Herbert Maxwell
Galanthus X Straffan
Galanthus X Wisley Magnet
Galanthus X Bertram Anderson
Galanthus X Desdemona
Galanthus X Brenda troyle
Galanthus X Atkinsii
Galanthus X ??
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Anthony we will try and chip this if possible and as for Whisky well any malt that is wet?? cheers Ian the Christie kind.
Not too wet I hope? ;)
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This must be how a cat feels, after playing with a wounded mouse for ten minutes...bored :P
Here is the list of snowies in the vase.... it's up to you if you can put the names to the faces now!
Looks like I got 10 right. A lot of the others you couldn't see properly, or (without leaves) were impossible to put a definite name to (unless you wanted a list like "if that one has elwesii leaves, it's...., but if it has nivalis leaves its....and if it has....)
Did that giant snowdrop you dreamed about catch you, Maggi?
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Did that giant snowdrop you dreamed about catch you, Maggi?
No, Martin, I drove over it in my little tank and sprayed the remains a nice blue colur, like spuds not for human consumption ::)
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I dont believe Gerard Parker is there
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Tough, Mark! :P I can line up any number of Dutchmen to say he is! :D
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I dont believe Gerard Parker is there
Mark, I think Gerard Parker is the fat one in the bottom pic of Maggi's series of individual photos (hang on, it's the bottom one on my screen, but I have latest posts at the top of the page, so it may also appear as the...) it's Maggi's individual pic no. G.09 - or at about 8 o'clock on the big pic.
I think it's like the photo Kristina showed for ID on another thread - a youngish flower of Gerard Parker, with the claws not yet fully developed - but you can just about make out the mark.
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No, make that 9 o'clock on the big pic of the vase - just behind the Magnet flower.
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Referring back to the comments from Tony and Franz, some might also say that there are only two types of snowdrops: the ones I have and the ones I want to get.
Paddy
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....or big ones and little ones Paddy....but I'm a Philistine!!
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I can't spare any more time for this little quiz. Have to get back to persuading people to buy more of my books. Ooh, I know .....BUY MY BOOKS OR I'LL SEND MAGGI ROUND TO RUN OVER YOU IN HER LITTLE TANK! That should work.
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Tanks for that Martin.....
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You missed one little word off the end of that underlined sentence Martin.......top! :D
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I can't spare any more time for this little quiz. Have to get back to persuading people to buy more of my books. Ooh, I know .....BUY MY BOOKS OR I'LL SEND MAGGI ROUND TO RUN OVER YOU IN HER LITTLE TANK! That should work.
My sister's bidey-in (or officially bidey-nearby) has a Scorpion tank and he's closer to you than Maggi Martin, as he lives in Essex.
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Does he suffer from caterpillars Anthony?
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My sister's bidey-in (or officially bidey-nearby) has a Scorpion tank and he's closer to you than Maggi Martin, as he lives in Essex.
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Bidey-in? Okay, that's another one I think you'll have to explain for the non-Scots-speaking forumists. Is it a lodger?
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Again, there's more than one skill being tested here .... ::)
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My favourite Scots phrase has always been (I think I heard it when I was a kid in Broughty Ferry) - "D'ye fancy a quick feelie up the close?" Explain that one to the non-Scots, if you dare, Anthony! ;D
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It has a literal meaning and a double-entendre meaning.
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'Bidey-in' is a partner of the non-business kind - usually when a lady talks about her live-in boyfriend or vice versa.
A 'close' is a passage running from the street to the backyard in a tenement with doors off leading to the ground floor flats. Neighbours would talk about each other by saying "he/she's fae up oor close". Of course, it does have another meaning. I'll leave you to work out what the person's intentions regarding the aforementioned (or any other) passage would be. ::)
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I just love "bidey-in". It's a great phrase. Much better than "live-in girlfriend or boyfriend". English English is really quite po-faced and uninventive compared to Scots English, which is just crammed with wonderful colloquial words and phrases. It's one of the reasons I've always been such a fan of Oor Wullie and The Broons.
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I'm sure that Oor Wullie was originally named after Siamese twins living in Dundee? ::)