Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Seedy Subjects! => Seeds Wanted => Topic started by: ChrisD on April 25, 2015, 10:31:57 PM
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Does anyone grow Corydalis nobilis? I have tried seed of this species so many times and never managed to germinate any, this is either my incompetence or (hopefully) not having fresh seed. So please could I beg some fresh seed and to have another go at growing this.
Thanks
Chris
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Does anyone grow Corydalis nobilis? I have tried seed of this species so many times and never managed to germinate any, this is either my incompetence or (hopefully) not having fresh seed. So please could I beg some fresh seed and to have another go at growing this.
Thanks
Chris
Chris,
I have had the same experience, almost. This year I finally had one seed germinate. I suspect it is important to have fresh seed, at least for this species. Not having it dry out is most likely another good idea. However, like you I am uncertain. Maybe someone with more experience will come forward.
May you have good luck finding fresh seed.
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Chris,
My two plants are flowering now. I will keep my eyes open. As I occasionally weed out a seedling I am sure that the plants set seed....
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I sowed seeds of this from Gothenburg Botanic Garden in February/March 2014 and it started germinating in March this year. I haven't counted the seedlings but there must be at least 6.
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Thanks Robert, Pauli and Roma.
Interesting Robert seems to have much the same experience as me, but it seems Roma didnt sow fresh seed but has had at least moderate germination. Pauli, I will PM you with my address.
Thanks again
Chris
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I think Gothenburg seeds are kept moist so they always germinate better than dry seeds.
Over here C.nobilis is soon starting to flower, I can also try to keep my eye on the seeds when they ripen in a month or so.
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Thanks Leena, I think I read somewhere else on the forum that corydalis seeds retain their viability better if kept moist, perhaps mixed with a little moss?
Chris
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Definitely sow fresh seed as I had great germination. I tend to keep them just moist to germinate.
Cheers
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I have fresh seed i collected a few weeks ago, for sale i am afraid - http://www.specialplants.net/ (http://www.specialplants.net/)
Edited to repair typo in url
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I do not think that the picture on their website is Corydalis nobilis - it is a fine Corydalis nevertheless
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I see what you mean, Herbert. I thought that Corydalis nobilis had more globe-shaped densely capitate flower heads, over quite divided blue-green foliage rather than the very divided green foliage with longer, spires of flowers as shown on the Special Plants site. An internet search shows that the two types are represented in results for the species. We need someone with time to study the floras !
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242314793 (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242314793)
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=112489&flora_id=2 (http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=112489&flora_id=2)
In the Liden book the plant shown certainly has such capitate flowers - including the one pictured in the garden of Linnaeus' house.
Links to pictures of the two plants......
http://www.gardenmyths.com/favorite-plant-corydalis-nobilis/ (http://www.gardenmyths.com/favorite-plant-corydalis-nobilis/) Robert Pavlis' plant portrait showing the expected capitate flowers
http://www.specialplants.net/shop/seeds/corydalis_nobilis/ (http://www.specialplants.net/shop/seeds/corydalis_nobilis/) Special Plants page showing a long flower spike of yellow.green flowers.
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Corydalis nobilis which grows here in Finland, is like in the one in the Maggi's link to gardenmyth page, not the same as in special plants page (though that Corydalis is fine looking). Here Corydalis nobilis goes dormant soon after flowering, and there is no sign of it any more above ground.
I'm sorry to say I forgot to collect seeds from it. :-[
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I think there is a confusion over the name Corydalis nobilis - back in 2007 in the forum Kristl W. was saying she had seed of the "true species" when Gene M was saying he'd been sent the wrong species (sadly the nursery link he cited is no longer on working) and also wrote that " The true form has flower with a white base, a yellow tip, and a brown mark in the center of the tip. Foliage is blue-green" The existence of two species under the name has been mentioned at other times in the forum and there have been photos of the capitate form which ties in with the e-floras description.
Kristl showed pictures here : http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=4111.msg111169#msg111169 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=4111.msg111169#msg111169) in a continuing discussion about what the biennial imposter might be - it has been grown by various members from seed both bought from commercial sources and the Seed Exchanges.
Here : http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=593.msg14200#msg14200 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=593.msg14200#msg14200) Gene M. shows the plant he grew from the supposed C. nobilis seed - large and with long flowering spikes. Fermi asserted that it was the plant seen often under the C. nobilis name in Australia. Hard to tell from Gene's closeup whether or not this is the same plant as shown in the Special Plants pictures or not, though it too has the long flower spike and the same greeny-grey mark.
By 2013 Gene had the correct plant! http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10319.msg275334#msg275334 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10319.msg275334#msg275334)
Magnar showed a super pic here of the capitate form :
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9274.msg250723#msg250723 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9274.msg250723#msg250723)
as did Luit van Delft, here : http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=1722.msg43997#msg43997 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=1722.msg43997#msg43997)
and Göte , here : http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=4903.msg152691#msg152691 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=4903.msg152691#msg152691)
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Thanks for all the research. My plants are clearly not Corydalis nobilis. they are big and bold and seed around profusely, but very attractive and easy to pull up where you don't want them. Think they are biennial, but as I always pull them out as they finish flowering, not 100% sure. Any idea as to name?
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Could it be Corydalis aurea? Described as a N American winter annual. Pictures on Google suggest it is quite variable and the red stems and dark markings don't seem typical. There are several related species.
See Tebbitt, Liden & Zetterlund 2008 - Bleeding Hearts, Corydalis and their relatives (Timber Press) - an excellent book.
Tristan
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I doubt it is likely to be C. aurea. The Tebbit, Liden and Zetterlund book describes the flowers as being "shorter than or slightly exceeding the leaves" ( page 119) and the e-flora description says the foliage is "glaucous" ( http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=233500427 (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=233500427) )
None of the photos of the large plant that seems to be the most regular "imposter" for C. nobilis have those characteristics. The flowering stems all extend well beyond the foliage and are hardly blue green at all. Plus C. aurea seems not to have the very prominent greenish markings on the upper part of the flowers.
I'm intrigued - I'll do more research!
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Interesting discussion and sleuthing. For what it's worth, my robust plants of C. nobilis make masses of seed, yet never seed around in the garden. Two years ago I specifically sowed some fresh seed, treated like other spring ephemeral seed and keep shaded and moist, only got about 6 seedlings in spring out of 100s of seed sown.
Corydalis nobilis from May 2015, notice the leaf forms can be a bit variable.
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Hi Maggi, think you are probably right - also just came across C. heterocarpa which seems to match very well:
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=250090080 (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=250090080)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Corydalis_heterocarpa_var_japonica_01.jpg (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Corydalis_heterocarpa_var_japonica_01.jpg)
Tristan
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I think you may have hit the nail on the head now, Tristan!
I sent a selection of photos earlier this evening to Henrik Zetterlund to ask his opinion :)
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Hi Maggi, think you are probably right - also just came across C. heterocarpa which seems to match very well:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Corydalis_heterocarpa_var_japonica_01.jpg (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Corydalis_heterocarpa_var_japonica_01.jpg)
Tristan
Hi Tristan,
That looks like what was being grown in Australia for many years as C. nobilis! It can be an absolute thug in Melbourne gardens but we didn't bring any with us when we moved to the country so don't know what it would do here.
cheers
fermi
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To go back to C. nobilis, if anyone can spare fresh seed of the real thing, please PM me. I've tried it before from Jelitto but I had no luck, probably as it has such a short viability. Happy to swap.
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I couldn't resist sharing here this article from Robbie Blackhall-Miles - he writes of Petunia exserta, being grown from seed from Derry at Special Plants !! http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/gardening-blog/2015/jul/30/petunia-exserta-a-flower-on-the-brink-of-extinction (http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/gardening-blog/2015/jul/30/petunia-exserta-a-flower-on-the-brink-of-extinction)
In order to keep the species though, it may be necessary to grow it well away from other petunias- http://www.specialplants.net/shop/seeds/petunia_exserta/ (http://www.specialplants.net/shop/seeds/petunia_exserta/)
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Wow, I havent been on this thread for a week and have missed all the excitment ???
Derry, I called in at your fabulous nursery a couple of months ago. A lovely selection of plants. This thread is a perfect example of the the forum can resolve all sorts of problems, even problems you didnt know you had!
Tristan, I suspect you are too late this year, at least for very fresh seed. I suggest you post again next spring, my original post resulted in a very generous gift of seed from a forum member. Hopefully these will result in lots of babies next spring.
Maggi, as usual a splendid effort in gathering together all the information from the various sources, and to Tristan - thanks for identifying the imposter. It will be interesting to see if Henrik agrees.
Chris
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Henrik Zetterlund has returned and his first reaction was that the "query"plant is Corydalis speciosa
However, he has consulted with Magnus Lidén and Henrik thinks that his was too hasty an opinion - the two of them think - " it is a species within the heterocarpa-complex. Orthopoda or heterocarpa.
Orthopoda is annual-biennial.
7a. Lowermost leaflets almost as large as rest of leaf; seeds ± sharply colliculate, shortly spinulose toward margin; stigma transverse, with 2 small forward-projecting papillae and broad diffuse
lateral papillae............ 30. C. orthopoda
7b. Lowermost leaflets considerably smaller than remainder of leaf; seeds ± spinulose all over; stigma with ascending branches tipped with diffusely set off papillae....................... 31. C. heterocarpa "
The plants we have supposed to be the true C. nobilis are indeed that species. :)
I think we are most fortunate to be able to consult these guys - thanks Henrik and Magnus !!