Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Hans J on February 03, 2008, 02:06:47 PM
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Hi all ,
here is a interesting Cyclamen coum from Azerbaijan
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A really special one, Hans.
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Hi all ,
here is a interesting Cyclamen coum from Azerbaijan
This looks like C coum ssp elegans (now with species status C elegans). Pointy leaves and tall flowers without the white tips at the nose. I think this is the correct (sub-) species for Azerbaijan and northern Iran. Is the plant in the wild or in cultivation Hans?
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Renate + Diane:
A plant is now in cultivation and I will try to get seeds .....
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Hi all ,
here is now one of my both pots with plants Cyc. coum 'Golan Heigth's'
- this seedlings are grown from seed ex CS
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Gosh. Both are so different and very pretty, :)
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You said that without my lips moving, Anthony! ::)
Those are very nice indeed.... wonderful to see these variants, Hans
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Hans,
Beautiful! The absence of even that pale pink nose on my near white gives yours such a wonderful purity. Great pics!! 8)
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Photographed today in Erich Pasches garden:
Cyclamen coum - slope, existing more than a decade.
Gerd
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Wow, wow and wow again ;D
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Can I add another WOW David ? ;D
Superb !
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Oh, my word! What a spectacle! How wonderful.
Gerd, will you be so kind as to pass the very best wishes of Ian and I to Erich? He is a man for whom we have much respect and considerable affection.
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Oh, my word! What a spectacle! How wonderful.
Gerd, will you be so kind as to pass the very best wishes of Ian and I to Erich? He is a man for whom we have much respect and considerable affection.
Yes, I will do it.
I feel the same for Erich and I am glad that he lives near to me (approx. 25 km) - so it's easy for me to get answers for a lot of questions.
Gerd
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Gerd , you are indeed fortunate to live so near to be able to consult with this learned man... also you will have the pleasure to hear his very funny jokes!
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Unglaublich, Gerd!
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Unglaublich, Gerd!
Luit,
I will not adorn myself with borrowed plumes - I only made the pic and not the planting.
Gerd
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Add another Wow from this side of the world too. What a stunning slope of coums. Very special!
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A couple of pictures of my pale pseudibericum in flower. Yes Paul I am trying for seed!!
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Hello all,
can Cyclamen cilicium have leaves scalloped (?) like hederifolium please?
Sorry, I don't have picture, it's the plant of a friend, who does not remember which species was it and where she purchased it. :-\
So, the pattern on the leaves are something like on this pic (from the Cyclamen society website), but the margins of the leaves are like my hederifolium's. I haven't seen the flowers.
I wonder if I should ask her to give me seeds or not. ::)
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Hello, does anyone grow C. somalense?
Ciao
Alberto
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Hello, does anyone grow C. somalense?
Ciao
Alberto
Alberto,
I am sure there is nobody, but would be glad if I am wrong.
Maybe the original collection is still alive - but as far as I know no multiplication.
Make a trip to Somalia and try to introduce new ones. Italy is nearer to that country
than Germany and unfortunately I have no bullet-proof vest.
Gerd
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Cyclamen somalense is entirely protected - rightly - and no-one should even dream of collecting it from the wild. The only possible exception would be for taxonomic/botanical study by a reputable botanic garden such as Kew, and only then with full, written permission from the relevant aurhority.
Having said that, it is known that some plants/animals can be better protected under cultivated or other man-made conditions but that's still no good reason or excuse for breaking the law.
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Lesley you are right it is strictly protected by armed gangs and murderers,quite unlike those in Greece and Turkey which are destroyed at will by property developments.
I understand that all the plants in the one and only original collection died
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Well if so, that's terribly sad. Of course I had in mind a protection given by a legitimate government to endangered plants and certainly Cyclamen is protected under CITES. However, in a country like Somalia, where God alone knows who or what may be a legitimate government and that govt. probably intent only on remaining so, regardless of drought and famine, murder and mayhem, the flora is most likely the last thing on anyone's mind. Greece and Turkey, along with the newer middle and eastern European states at least have relatively stable government. It's a great shame that those few people or groups within those countries, who are truly concerned for the future of their natural assets, are without political power and are frequently treated as traitors if they voice opinions against unbridles development, ALL of which is ultimately for someone's personal profit, rather than the country's own good.
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Cyclamen somalense is entirely protected - rightly - and no-one should even dream of collecting it from the wild. .
Lesley, dreams are not forbidden - I support plant protection, including and especially for Cyclamen. But what I wrote was only wishful thinking combined with a joke, I forgot to add a ;) - sorry.
Gerd
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I'm sorry too Gerd, I didn't mean to lecture you, or anyone else. :-[ But you know me, I leap before I look. :-[
Yesterday I cleaned my kitchen windows inside. A momentous occasion I promise you. I was tired of dead flies as decoration so as I'd seen some little Cyclamen persicum forms in my local supermarket the day before, I trotted down the hill and bought 7. They were obviously short of water when I bought them so I put them in a large roasting pan and filled it with water to soak them. Then drained them and put them on the windowsill in clear plastic pots to catch the drips.
I expected that by this morning they would have perked up and be cyclamen-like again. Some have, to some extent but the pink one in the middle still looks decidedly downcast. :( It is soaked right through so I don't know why it hasn't reflexed its petals properly but I have to admit, it looks as if it's on its last legs. :( :(
But they do all smell very nice, enough to scent the whole kitchen and adjoining dining room by the time I got out of bed this morning. :) :)
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A few Cyclamen, but not in my garden. Wonderful different leaves and flowers. I hope I do not show too many pics. Should I remove pics?
Hans
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That was a lovely display Hans.
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Hans,
An absolute pleasure to see such a mass of coums. Don't you dare remove any of the pictures!!!! :o ;)
Lesley,
I have a miniature persicum bought from a nursery last year that doesn't reflex at all. The petals are twisted like they would normally be when reflexed, but they stay pointing downwards. Gives a totally different look to the plant. It isn't quite cyclamen-like, but I still found it interesting enough to buy it. Has recently been repotted and isn't in flower at this point in time, but when it does I'll pot a pic. I could probably find a pic of it from last year if you're interested in seeing it? I have seen flower forms a little like yours around, and they don't look too bad as it gives a much more billowy look to the flower, although yet again it isn't really cyclamen-like. ;D
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Great photos so far. Here are a few of my own.
1. C. coum; all of these plants are destined for new homes.
2. C. alpinum.
3. C. coum.
4. C. coum.
5. C. coum; a very special plant growing at a UK nursery. As far as I know this is the first time a pure white flowered form has appeared with this type of leaf pattern.
6. C. elegans (silver leaf form).
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I love to see these cyclamen in quantity... so sumptuous ....en masse and yet all different.
The coum with the fabulous leaf pattern and the white flowered version below it are just amazing.....serious coveting going on here!
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Tim,
Positively glorious!! What a display. That alpinum is stunning, and the silver leaf that isn't in flower.... what perfect leaves to it (although why no flowers?)
Middle of summer here, yet things are confused and some of my coums are already sending up leaves while the hederifoliums are just coming into full flower. Very strange, but still kind of nice to see those lovely coum leaves.
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What a fantastis display Tim.
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Lesley - thanks for posting your cyclamen persicum - for some reason, this form seems much maligned, but I think that this is undeserved as they always provide such good colour and just keep on flowering and flowering and.......
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This is a plant that I grew from seed as Cyclamen africanum. It grows quite happily for me outside with no special treatment so much so that the corm is now splitting the pot.
Picture 1 is of the complete pot with an onion orchid (Microtis unifolia) growing as a weed in the pot.
Picture 2 is a close up of the flower
Picture 3 is a seedling of the orginal plant. The flower is a lighter shade of pink than the parent.
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A beautyful Cyclamen balearicum in its natural habitat.
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A beautyful Cyclamen balearicum in its natural habitat.
In a crevice! How lovely!
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This Cyclamen is flowering now - it should not. ::) - nevertheless it is nice to see it 8)
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This Cyclamen is flowering now - it should not. ::) - nevertheless it is nice to see it 8)
Hans, this is not C graecum, it's C persicum, so the flowering time is fine.
C graecum has flowers with auricules (similar flower shape to C hederifolium)
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Thanks Diane,
just this I studied in the moment ::) - I received this plant last year as C. graecum, now having the pic on the screen it is sure you are right - always better to look twice ;)
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I have got a plant aprox. 10 years ago from Crete.Now it is in flower again.I`m not a specialist in this genus, please help to ID this plant ! Could it be Cycl. creticum ?
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Definitely Cyclamen creticum, Gerhard.
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@ Tim:
Many thanks for your ID, I have seen some picts on the net.I believe that Cycl. repandum ssp. creticum is a synonym of Cycl. creticum ?
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Here's a nice one. Cyclamen rhodium ssp. peleponesium (if I can read the label?).
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@ Tim:
Many thanks for your ID, I have seen some picts on the net.I believe that Cycl. repandum ssp. creticum is a synonym of Cycl. creticum ?
Yes, it is. Repandum and its subspecies and creticum are very closely related.
Gerd
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Here's a nice one. Cyclamen rhodium ssp. peleponesium (if I can read the label?).
new specs needed Anthony-it probably reads Cyclamen repandum ssp peloponnesiacum. BUT C. peloponnesiacum was raised to specific staus in 2001. How do I know all this-just reading 'Cyclamen' by Christopher Grey-Wilson 2002 edition, publisher's price £30, my copy from Abe books, brand new £4.50 plus £3.50 p/p-bargain!!
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I'll get my specs out this evening. :-[
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BUT C. peloponnesiacum was raised to specific staus in 2001.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but C peloponnesiacum only lasted 2 years as a species in its own right.
A new species C rhodium was named in 2003 by Kit Grey-Wilson to include the old
C repandum rhodense and C repandum peloponnesiacum. So Anthony's plants is Cyclamen rhodium ssp peloponnesiacum. Here's a little chart of the changes I just happen to have up my sleeve.
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Thanks very much for this clarification on the current situation Diane - but what further tweakings may 2008 bring? ;)
Some taxonomic revisions are still being published too soon I think, before the evidence is strong enough to justify them.
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BUT C. peloponnesiacum was raised to specific staus in 2001.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but C peloponnesiacum only lasted 2 years as a species in its own right.
A new species C rhodium was named in 2003 by Kit Grey-Wilson to include the old
C repandum rhodense and C repandum peloponnesiacum. So Anthony's plants is Cyclamen rhodium ssp peloponnesiacum. Here's a little chart of the changes I just happen to have up my sleeve.
....... and I thought I was upto date!! ;D
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It's a valuable book, David, but includes some errors, inconsistencies and at times dubious logic in my opinion.
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It's a valuable book, David, but includes some errors, inconsistencies and at times dubious logic in my opinion.
........ typical taxonomic ramblings Ashley? ;D
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Nothing that a quick swipe of Occam's Razor couldn't fix 8)
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Nothing that a quick swipe of Occam's Razor couldn't fix 8)
I had to look that one up Ashley, I wasn't familiar with it-very apt!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor
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Thanks very much for this clarification on the current situation Diane - but what further tweakings may 2008 bring? ;)
I dread to think! I'm still waiting for the move threatened some years ago, to take Cyclamen out of Primulaceae and assign to some family of tropical trees, but they don't seem to have decided yet which tropical trees cyclamen are related to ;D ;D
Some taxonomic revisions are still being published too soon I think, before the evidence is strong enough to justify them.
Yes, I quite agree, but they have to keep publishing new names to justify publishing a new book, don't they ::) ::)
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Well, I'm glad that's cleared up because I got my specs out and reread the label, and sure enough it is rhodium peleponnesiacum (it's a Tilebarn label).
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Mine still look the same each year so clearly they have not read the latest book.
I use my money to have more holidays and buy plants,a lot more fun than yet another book that is meaningless in a year or so.
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A selection of a few of the cyclamen looking good here at the moment.
1. Cyclamen coum; a fairly nice silver leaf form.
2. Cyclamen coum forma Albissimum.
3. This is an "almost" albissimum. I grow roughly 3000 each year and this cropped up randomly. It seems to be a vigorous plant and I'm hoping that some of its offspring will have pure white flowers.
4 & 5. Cyclamen repandum sourced from Italy.
6 & 7. Cyclamen rhodium peloponnesiacum forma Albiflorum.
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Beautiful Tim, thanks for posting them.
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Tim,
Lovely to see hte real albissimum. Your "almost" albissimum is very like my "near pure white" which I offered seed of a while back. Does show how much pink there really is on it when you see the albissimum pic next to it. That one is much purer, and rather desirable. Must look out for it.
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Tim,
Lovely to see hte real albissimum.
Tim, very good plant - good size of flowers. Is this form called ' Lake Effect ' ?
I once had C. coum albissimum ' Golan Heights ' - which was an ugly and weak plant.
Gerd
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Hello Gerd,
I have a dozen 'Golan Heights' here and not one of them earns their space in the glasshouse. I agree that it is a weak form of coum and I'm sure that it wouldn't survive outside here. It only just survives in the glasshouse when temperatures drop below freezing. Despite all of this, I still sell out of seed from my plants every year.
The albissimum plant in my photo has been given the name 'George Bisson'. The near pure white albissimum in my other photo is closer to the plant known as 'Lake Effect' in flower size (larger than 'George Bisson') and the fact that the petals are fimbriated. Only the very slight pink in the flower separates my plant from 'Lake Effect', which is pure white.
If you take a close look at the 'George Bisson' plant, compare the colour of the flower stalks and the coiling seed pod. Even these parts of the plant are lighter in colour than the 'normal' coum around it.
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Thank you Tim.
I can give you the confirmation - Golan Heights does not survive outside, but I am not sad about it. Other C. coum do fine in my garden.
I just received some seeds of Lake Effect from a Dutch cyclamen specialist - hoping to raise this improved form (originally from John Lonsdale - I was told).
Gerd
Edit by M : 'Lake Effect' was raised and named by Ellen Hornig and registered on her behalf by John Lonsdale
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Tim,
I hadn't focused on the fimbriation until you mentioned it. A nice addition isn't it!? So is the 'George Bisson' of your own plant and therefore own naming, or is it available elsewhere. if the latter I'll keep an eye out for seed as I would very much like to grow it. 'Lake Effect' sounds rather interesting too, being pure white with the fimbriation as well, but I think that 'George Bisson' would look "cleaner" with the paler stems etc. Very beautiful, that is for sure. Thanks for showing us the pics.
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Paul, 'George Bisson' isn't one of my own selections (I would never apply cultivar names to them); I think it was selected out and named by Elm Tree Nursery who are in Devon, UK. I'm sure that there are a few sources who might carry a few seeds each summer but you would have to be quick.
As the current Seed Distribution Manager of The Cyclamen Society, perhaps I might be able to convince you to join (if you aren't already a member) so that you could apply for seed through the annual seed distribution scheme. If you were to donate some seeds, you would have an even better chance of getting what you wanted ;)
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Tim,
Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for it. Definitely worth tracking down I think as the pure white flowers are great, and better growth habit helps too!!
Re Cyc Soc..... 'd love to join, but will have to see about funds. A lot of my societies have had to go by the wayside (but I have never been a member of the Cyc Soc, despite wanting to join it) due to long term illness, but hopefully when I am again working I can rectify that. Not sure whether many of my things would be of that much interest to Cyclamen officionados anyway, as I don't have many of the newer and superior leaf forms that are about the place. ::)
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Howyd All,
I hope no-one minds me popping a few of my Southern Hemisphere cyclamen pics in this thread? There's actually quite a few in flower at the moment including graecum, graecum album, cilicicum, cilicicum album, purpurascens, cyprium, colchicum, hederifolium and intaminatum. A few flower pics are attached....
I am intrigued by both Cyc. colchicum and C. cyprium having rather chunky flowers. I am unsure whether this is just that I have a form with poorer flowers, or whether there is something I am doing wrong with their culture. From memory by other tuber of cyprium isn't as chunky a flower, and the second tuber of C. colchicum hasn't yet flowered for me. The C. graecum is the one pink flowered seedling from the seed I got of the white form that I offered seed of a while ago and the cilicicum album is a white seedling from my a predominantly pink set of seed.
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Not sure whether many of my things would be of that much interest to Cyclamen officionados anyway, as I don't have many of the newer and superior leaf forms that are about the place. ::)
Paul, I might have believed you had you not then posted those photos of some of your cyclamen in flower :)
The Society is grateful for seed of all types/forms of cyclamen. An awful lot of members want (for example) just coum and hederifolium for the garden and they aren't all that interested in aquiring the very best leaf forms; as long as the plants are strong and grow well, that's often all that matters. If you are in a position to join the Society in the future, give me a shout.
I think your cyprium and colchicum flowers are very nice and are probably just showing natural variability. All but one of my C. colchicum are short, stocky flowers; one plant has elongated petals and I don't really like it all that much. The problem is that it's one of my most vigorous and largest colchicum. I hope you keep posting as your season moves on.
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Tim,
Thanks for the confirmation for shapes of the flowers. I usually only get a few flowers per plant from those, as I only acquired in the last few years and they haven't thrived here as yet. Rohlfsianum is sporadic here but I usually get at least a flower or two from one of the 5 adults I have. I have most of the species (Well all I can find) except for trochopteranthum which I lost and have not yet replaced. I do have some nice leaf forms of hederifolium, but no only one or two named ones. I do have a couple of named leaf forms of coum and mirabile, but some of those are still fairly young seedlings. If the basics are of interest then it is probably worthwhile me keeping track of seed for the exchange, whether I get a chance to join or not. I might PM you about it.
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A couple of views of one of my frames with the cyclamen pseudibericum in flower.The warmer weather has brought them on.
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Very Nice!! 8)
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WOW, love Cyclamen!!! 8)
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H @all,
another C.pseudibericum. I love the colour.
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Here is a cyclamen persicum that wants to be different.
Cyclamen persicum.
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Cyclamen repandum hybs with creticum and balericum.
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A closer view of a hyb with nice foliage.
Cyclamen repandum hyb
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Michael,
That's impressive foliage!! I've seen speckling on the leaves of repandums before, but don't recall anything like THAT much in the way of markings. It certainly stands out in your pic of the group of them. Very, very nice!! 8)
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Michael very nice hybrids,what is their parentage?
here are some pictures of repandum foliage on mine.The first two are repandum from the Langada Gorge in Greece and then two vividum.
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Michael very nice hybrids,what is their parentage?
They are Repandum with Creticum and Balericum, I just save my own seed and pick out the best foliage forms,so I am not sure what has crossed with what. That group are notoriously promiscuous.
Cheers.
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Tony,
All nice plants!! Love the leaves on #2 and the flower colour on the last 2. Great Stuff!! 8)
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They are all exquisite, especialy the flowers which are very pale with a deeper picotee edge.
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here is a dinky little parviflorum.It is a seedling I found last year in the sand plunge and potted it up.It is only in a 3 inch pot and has four leaves the size of five pence pieces.
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The spring cyclamen season is just starting in Newfoundland with the blooming of coums. In my basement window is where I grow the tender (for Newfoundland) species such as repandum. And the fourth pic is my out-of-season purpurascens grown from seed. The seed were sown about 2 years ago and grown on continually with this the first blooming. This one is hardy here and will go in the garden as soon as our weather warms up.
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Another pot smasher - Cyclamen graecum from 1985 Cyclamen Society seed. It has a penchant for pricey pots and if smashes the new round one I put it in tonight it will be in dire trouble. One of the easiest Cyclamen to identify - always perfectly shaped and reminding me of a coconut. I fully expected the lower part to be square.
On the other side of the spectrum is C. rohlfsianum 1986 (last shot) - always bizarrely shaped here. As lifeless as it looks it relaibly comes to life and blooms, unless it is watered when dormant and rots. Leslie, I bet this is what a deep-fried Mars bar looks like.
(Whoops, Maggi could you move this to Cyclamen Autumn 2008 and cancel this New Topic folder I made in error? Sorry.... 'tis done, John! Maggi))
johnw
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Later. Maggi's in bed for now.
That's a smashing plant all right. :D Will be a great show when it's in bloom.
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Some Cyclamen from my garden:
- C. colchicum, a gift from a friend last year, this year with more than 20 flowers!
- C. intaminatum, grown from seed, first flowering now
- C. (ex!) cilicium Album, also from seed, first time flowering
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Thomas ,
sorry but this is not Cyc. cilicum f. album ....this is a normal form - f. album is pure white !
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Hans,
This time I am the one to agree with you 100% ;)
Thomas, nice to see these species in flower already , i will have to wait at least 6- 8 weeks before they will flower here.
At the moment C. hederifolium and C. africanum are starting and C. colchicum has young buds.
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Are you growing these under cover Thomas ?
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Thanks for the correction, Hans and Oron! I had a look at the Cyclamen bible and do agree with you!!
The seeds were a gift from a friend from Southern Germany ;D so they have to be named as "ex cilicium Album"
No Luc, my plants are growing on a North-East facing wall - unprotected. They seem to enjoy it!
Today I found a plant in flower labelled C. libanoticum - but it looks like mirabile :-\ Will post a photo later.
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Didn't make the ferry then Luc?
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Today I found a plant in flower labelled C. libanoticum - but it looks like mirabile :-\ Will post a photo later.
[/quote]
Thomas
It is more likely to be C. libanoticum X cyprium, this hybrid flowers in early Autumn while C. libanoticum is in flower in late winter, early spring.
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Thomas
It is more likely to be C. libanoticum X cyprium, this hybrid flowers in early Autumn while
C. libanoticum is in flower in late winter, early spring.
I don't think it's C. libanoticum x cyprium - it has frilled petals and leaves, like C. mirabile has,
while the photo in the Cyclamen bible of x wellensiekii shows smooth petals.
We'll have to wait until I make I photo of it - tomorrow, it's to dark outside now!
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Thomas,
If you don't have Cyclamen libanoticum, how many would you like? Mine seed like crazy around themselves, in fact I am to the stage I have to start removing some of the tiny ones at the edge (in this case the edge is probably 2 feet away from the original clump of plants) as they are threatening to overrun my Trillium rivale and Eranthis planted nearby. Very distinctive flower that I love, and rather nice leaf markings.
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Cyclamen are such beautiful plants and normally easy to propagate and grow - to find them in the wild is very special - to find them in Amsterdam made me sad - even if this plants are collected "legally" in turkey - most of this old plants are digged to die ...:'(
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Cyclamen are such beautiful plants and normally easy to propagate and grow - to find them in the wild is very special - to find them in Amsterdam made me sad - even if this plants are collected "legally" in turkey - most of this old plants are digged to die ...:'(
Hans - What a sickening sight. Is there no one in government this could reported to? If garden centres are hassled enough to produce proper documentation they might just recondsider ordering. It would also be wise to find out first who supplied them and then hassle them too. Inexcusable in this day and age.
johnw
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As sad as seeing wild turtles or whales killed and sold for meat. I sometimes despair of seeing humans act decently.
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John - it might be crazy - but wild collected Cyclamen of some species can be sold legally - just have a look on this: http://sea.unep-wcmc.org/isdb/CITES/Taxonomy/tax-species-result.cfm?Genus=Cyclamen&Species=hederifolium&source=plants (http://sea.unep-wcmc.org/isdb/CITES/Taxonomy/tax-species-result.cfm?Genus=Cyclamen&Species=hederifolium&source=plants)
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Hans - The quantities are unbelievable. Cannot Societies petition against this madness and explain the non-survivability of these bulbs? There is a pretty good programme of seed growing for export so why a need for this one wonders.
johnw
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Thomas,
If you don't have Cyclamen libanoticum, how many would you like? Mine seed like crazy around themselves, in fact I am to the stage I have to start removing some of the tiny ones at the edge (in this case the edge is probably 2 feet away from the original clump of plants) as they are threatening to overrun my Trillium rivale and Eranthis planted nearby. Very distinctive flower that I love, and rather nice leaf markings.
Paul, I'm not sure if I have it - my seed pots are still sleeping, but before you throw yours in the rubbish, I promise to give'em a good home!
A real pity, Hans - they are indeed so easy to grow from seed, so why robbing them from nature >:( :'(
Here a photo of my plant, received as Cyclamen libanoticum seeds, in my opinion C. mirabile, but I'm not an expert:
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Thomas it certainly looks like a mirable.Mine are still dormant although life is stirring under the top dressing.
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I agree with Tony, its mirabile. The pinky tinge to the leaf and the ragged ends of the petals are good identification clues.
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Thomas,
And a very nice mirabile as well. Very nice leaf markings, and exhibiting the pink tinging to the silver. I'd be mighty pleased to have that appear in my seedlings, although not so much if it was the only pot I had of seed of a different species. ::) Very nice plant.
I'll unearth you a few libanoticum and send them your way sometime soon. They're quite distinctive, and there is definitely no mixing them up with mirabile. ;D
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Thanks for the confirmation, Diane and Tony!
The next flowers from this libanoticum seed batch are now out - C. hederifolium :-[ >:( :'(
Paul, I will try to pollinate my mirabile, if it sets seed you will get some next summer!
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Good grief Thomas, that is some seed mixup. Someone must have thrown all their assorted cyclamen seed in the air and then put them together into packets and labelled them. Now are the hederfoliums at least nice leaf forms?
No stress re the mirabile seed Thomas. One year if its sets it would be great, but there is definitely no hurry. I'm still hoping one of these years to get a good solid silver leaf seedling that shows pink in the emerging foliage. So far the seedlings I've had from them have all has some green markings. All still lovely, but not "quite" the solid pink/silver leaves as yet. Always good to have things to aim for!! ;)
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Didn't make the ferry then Luc?
I did David - it was the Sunday morning ferry ! (and back on Sunday evening - so a real "channel hop" ;D
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Luc, good job I wasn't going I would have been there on the wrong day!
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;D ;D ;D
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Last year I bought two seedling pots of Cyclamen cilicium forma album. One pot has flowered for the first time and even as a 'newbie' to Cyclamen I can see it is not forma album. Is it C. cilicium though? I have looked in Chris Grey-Wilson's 'Cyclamen' and from his description I think it probably is but he does say that flowers appear with young or semi-mature leaves-I don't have leaves yet! Help please?
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Last year I bought two seedling pots of Cyclamen cilicum forma album. One pot has flowered for the first time and even as a 'newbie' to Cyclamen I can see it is not forma album. Is it C. cilicum though? I have looked in Chris Grey-Wilson's 'Cyclamen' and from his description I think it probably is but he does say that flowers appear with young or semi-mature leaves-I don't have leaves yet! Help please?
They look like C cilicium, David. I expect that the leaves won't be far behind
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Thanks for that Diane. I see I had I missed out the third 'i' in cilicium in my original post and have edited it.
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David,
I stumble over remembering which things are cilicicum and which are cilicium.... never can remember and usually end up having to look it up for whatever genus I am trying to write about. There's a few genus that have one of them in it.
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Confusing ain't it!
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David,
Yeah, but it doesn't take much to confuse me these days!! ::)
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David
I think leaf growth is dependant on the watering regime.
I find they start to flower whether they have been watered or not, but leaf growth early on is very much dependant on the amount of water they receive as they spring into growth.
I have them at all stages at the moment. Here is one from last year,a poor picture I am afraid which is in full flower and is already setting seed with no leaves visible.
I have a C. mirable in flower again with no leaves yet.
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Tony, the pic I showed was from a pot I had inadvertantly put, after re-potting, with a tray of bulbs in the dry awaiting the 'September shower' and flowered without any water until I noticed it and gave it a drink. My other pot is yet to show any kind of activity inspite of having been watered regularly. I await with eager anticipation!
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I have had a few flowers open so far, 25 or so. I planted 310ish hederifolium in this bed, not sure how many are still alive. I did notice some dead ones when I put down fresh pine needles. They will be 3 years old around Christmas time. It's going to be loaded with flowers. Pretend you can't see the netting......, those darn squirrels.
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Been waiting for this to open, three flowers on one flower stem.
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Tony, the pic I showed was from a pot I had inadvertantly put, after re-potting, with a tray of bulbs in the dry awaiting the 'September shower' and flowered without any water until I noticed it and gave it a drink. My other pot is yet to show any kind of activity inspite of having been watered regularly. I await with eager anticipation!
Hi David
I found a pot of cilicium in flower yesterday which has been outside, exposed to all the weather we've had here - it's one of the few to survive from a batch bought last year.
I'm sure each plant has it's own responses to conditions as repotting my cyclamen yesterday I've got plants of the same species some in leaf and some with no signs of growth at all, some of my graecum haven't lost their foliage over the summer, others haven't had a leaf for months, they all grow together in the same small plunge bed so conditions are pretty much the same. Just the natural variety you get I suspect. The only constant was what a bad year it has been for seeds, just a handful of pods and seeds.
Sue
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here some pics from today :
Cyclamen graecum ssp. anatolicum
Cyclamen graecum f. album
Cyclamen graecum ssp. candicum
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Thanks for that Sue, you put my mind at rest. As we say many times on the Forum we read the books but the plants don't!
Nice Cyclamen Hans.
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;D ...and all correctly named :P
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Hans,
Nice C. graecum! They are so early - did you tell them something about the ' early bird '?
But, on a serious note: Did you wake them up with some additional watering ? ???
Gerd
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;D ...and all correctly named :P
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! ;D
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Gerd ,
here flowering a lot of Cyclamen : graecum ,hederifolium,mirabile,cilicicum - in my greenhouse
In my garden flowers : purpurascens,hederifolium,colchicum
No -I give my Cyclamen regulary all two weeks water ....thats all !
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The C. graecum's that Tony G sent me have both been planted and have sprung into life straight away. I'm thrilled! Never grown that one before.
I replanted and started watering most of my cyclamen at the beginning of August when I was doing my bulbs, watering once, and some started showing flowers, others foliage in the last two or three weeks. But my C. coum have also started showing foliage too, is it too early for them or do they do this then flower early spring sometimes? I took Maggi's advice and dug out some pine needle soil for my C. mirabile, and some are responding with a bit of growth, others still sitting tight, and all from the same batch of seedlings too. Funny things these cyclamen, very difficult to understand what they like and don't like...
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But my C. coum have also started showing foliage too, is it too early for them or do they do this then flower early spring sometimes?
C coum often start with foliage this time of year, and the buds will also form early and just sit - sometimes as much as 6 months in bud before opening. That's just what they do, it's normal
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Hi Hans,
I tend to think your graecum anatolicum is graecum graecum.
Subsp. anatolicum usually have a short stalk, only a few cm, with a typical puffy flower.
some of the forms i grow have 2-3 cm flower stalk .
I still look for a photo of one of mines, if not I will send some in a few weeks time when mines are in flower.
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Hi Oron ,
I know from where the seeds of my plant came : Turkey ;D
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:-X....
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Thanks Diane. I was quite puzzled when they all started popping up. I'll put them all outside and leave them til spring then. Wish the ones that are supposed to leaf out in autumn would get on with it though lol. Suppose its been lack of dry sunny weather. We have had little sunshine lately....
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Chris
mine of several species, hederifolium graecum coum etc have all been treated the same and are all at different stages . Some have leaves and others show no signs of growth,nothing to worry about. As Diane says coum just sits with its flowers formed until spring as does alpinum.They colour up and you think they will pop up and flower but they only do it at the correct time.
I have hederifolium,rholfsianum(nearly finished) purpurascens,colchicum, cilicicum and the first mirable in flower
This graecum from the Rhodope Peninsular in Crete is always the first to flower
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This is good to know Tony. I'll stop worrying now, just enjoy them as they pop up. One of my C. mirabile has a decidely green tinge to the corm, the others are more of an amber shade. Reminds me of green potatoes in a way, wondered whether its a good or bad sign. Any ideas anyone?
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Chris
I think my reply on tuber colour is lost but some of mine are greenish at times. No idea why but can only think it is when they have been exposed to light. They still grow okay.
here is a graecum I have grown from seed collected in 1998 at Monevassia in the Pelopennese. Small plant but lovely flowers
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Do they have a scent Tony? Lovely little things.
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David
I only find that hederifolium and purpurascens have a scent I can detect,both fill the frame on warm days(stupidly I nearly said when the sun warms them up,what sun?) with a very nice fragrant smell.
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Just the cheap C. persicum is sweetly scented. I sometimes just stand in front of the display at Homebase and take in the scent ....
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Cyclamen cilicium has a lovely spicy sort of scent. C purpurascens has the best scent of them all.
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Cyclamen libanoticum has a foul smell - reminds me of Chemistry lessons when we made acetylene. However, most female friends think it is quite acceptable.
On a par with Crocus graveolens.
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First C. africanum for the season, they appeared quite early this year since I had to give some water this summer.
I find it quite difficult to keep 'clean' strains of this species because of its tendency to hybridize easily with C. hederifolium.
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Cyclamen hederifolium from today, the first one with Aster amellus
Gerd
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Flowers starting to clump up in spots.
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The hederifolium are starting to put on a show. Now if I can get a couple hundred coum to flowering size. Started 300-350 coum seeds a couple weeks ago. I only have 1 plant from my first try at coum, they seem more difficult then hederifolium. I also bought some dark purple hederifolium seeds from Jan Bravenboer, and have about 25 germinated so far. Can't wait to see these flower.
http://www.gardenbuddies.com/forum/messages/1133685/1280886.jpg
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Whilst I have been away the cyclamen have burst into bloom.Here are a selection of them.
cyclamen intaminatum
cyclamen cyprium es form
cyclamen cilicicum
cyclamen graecum ssp candicum crete
cyclamen graecum turkey chimera
cyclamen mirabile
cyclamen mirabile white pink nose
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Tony
Excellent plants - very nice cilicium.
May I take this opportunity to publicise the Cyclamen Society Conference on September 21st at the Botanic Gardens Edgbaston. There is a plant stall. There is excellent food in the restaurant. If the sun shines then the gardens make an enjoyable stroll. The Show opens at 11.00
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A couple of pots of cyclamen flowering in my greenhouse. I have a lot of plants still reluctant to flower probably due to the cool damp sunless summer. One plant, in particular, is showing almost no growth. This is cyclamen mirabile Tilebarn Elizabeth. It used to flower profusely from September into November. Last year it produced 4 leaves and no flowers. The corm is about 10 cms. in diameter and looks healthy but it has not produced any roots. I checked it again today and all it has is 1 tiny leaf coming up. It is a mystery to me.
The two pictures are of
Cyclamen hederifolium which is about twenty five years old with the corm about 25 cms.
The other well flowered on is Cyc. hederifolium I grew from seed. It was from a silver leaf variety but this one produces much greener leaves than others sown from the same source
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Love your silver leaved hederifolium, Tom!
Some Cycs from my garden:
- cilicicum
- intaminatum, silvery leaved form
- hederifolium 2x
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I particularly liked the silver leaf form of Cyclamen intaminatum Thomas.
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Wonderful cyclamen, Thomas and Tom. Lots of seed up here this year, and looks like some good leaf forms. Yippee.
Susan
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May I take this opportunity to publicise the Cyclamen Society Conference on September 21st at the Botanic Gardens Edgbaston. There is a plant stall. There is excellent food in the restaurant. If the sun shines then the gardens make an enjoyable stroll. The Show opens at 11.
To add a bit more detail to Arthur's posting, The Cyclamen Society Conference and show is at Birmingham Botanical Gardens this Sunday. Click here for details of the venue.
http://www.birminghambotanicalgardens.org.uk/home
There is a competitive show and plant sales and also lectures in the afternoon,
Cyclamen Society Members can get free entry to the events and the gardens. Non Cyclamen Society members can pay the normal entry to the gardens and then get free entry into the Cyclamen Society event.
Click here to see last years show and a taster of this year's event
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=837.0
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Diane,
Please can we just clarify that it is on Sunday 21st?
The date that Arthur has mentioned is the 21st September and the Birmingham site is stating the 21st on it's main page, but the 28th when you search for further details?
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Diane,
Please can we just clarify that it is on Sunday 21st?
The date that Arthur has mentioned is the 21st September and the Birmingham site is stating the 21st on it's main page, but the 28th when you search for further details?
Good point, Cliff. It is definitely on the 21st. The error on the BBGG is probably because the date has been changed this year from its usual date to a week earlier to avoid various clashes on the calendar.
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Thanks for this, Diane... just been to Cyclamen Society website which tells me about conference in 2003 !!! :o ::)
Arthur... help!!
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Thanks for this, Diane... just been to Cyclamen Society website which tells me about conference in 2003 !!! :o ::)
Arthur... help!!
Hmm yes, the Cyclamen Society website is not very up to date.
BUT Arthur's and my information are correct, and we will definitely be at the Birmingham Botanical Gardens this Sunday.
Maybe a few more will join us, or we will win all the prizes ;D ;D ;D
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Diane, I do hope that you and Arthur are joined by MASSES of people but that you STILL win all the prizes ;D
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An odd flower this morning, C. rohlfsianum double form, this is its first year to flower so I will keep an eye on this one.
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The Cyclamen Society held its Autumn Northern show today at Birmingham Botanical Gardens. The sun shone on a glorious autumn day and there were glorious plants to see. I was guilty of too much talking and not enough photography so there are just a few shots from me to capture the flavour of the day.
The best plant in the show was a stunning Cyclamen graecum ssp anatolicum shown by Ian Robertson with an incredible number of flowers
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Cyclamen hederifolium
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More Cyclamen graecum, a beautiful flower form on this one
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And another Cyclamen graecum, I thought this was an unusual colour for graecum
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there are classes for foliage separate from classes for flower. Here's the winner of the 3 pan for foliage:
2 coums and a purpurascens
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And another entry in 3 pan foliage, this time 2 hederifoliums and a purpurascens
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An unusual purpurascens with a pink tinge shown for foliage
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A general view of the showbench
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There is a non-competitive class for plants that grow in association with cyclamen in the wild. Here are a couple of photos of Sternbergia lutea (grown by Melvyn Jope) specially taken for Arthur, who couldn't be there.
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Most unusual variants - everything seems possible! :o :o :o
Gerd
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I agree Gerd ! Incredible variation ! ;D
Thanks for letting us taste Diane ! ;)
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Wow, Diane, what a show. Bet the perfume in the room knocked you all out. Thanks for sharing....
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What magnificent graecums! I have been trying to flower 4 plants for 10 years and have managed only one flower in this time.
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Lovely cyclamen :)
Must have been a nice show :o 8)
Here in Portugal is the C. persicum doing fine outside but I never manage to find the seeds only the new plants. They seem to be more and more green compared with the parent for each generation. Is that always the case?
The foliage was lovely and different in shape as well as in colour so would anyone identify cyclamen without the flowers? Or the reverse identify cyclamen from the flower without the foliage?
The reason I ask is that in Sweden we have a nice mix of plants that seam to flower during most of the year. Some are flowering with the foliage and some without. I thought the ones without foliage that shows some flowers now would be coum but they are supposed to be a spring varity. Could they get one or two flowers now and save the big flowering to spring or am I just wrong.
Kind regards
Joakim
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If it is possible to identify from flower here re some I would like to have identified. When looking in the Phillips&Rix bulb book I see that they have different ones but I am still not able to see what to look for for identification.
First one my mother think is one I (we) got from Ireland (thanks for that You know who You are). My mother might have planted it close by so it might not be exactly this one. As an anecdote I always think on when looking at them when my mother called wondering what I have done now for crazy things. My mother got the package with something that looked like cyclamen but there was an Iris newletter about snowdrops so my mother was not sure what was going on. Only later she saw it was an Irish newsletter and it was in snowdroptime so it was logic about all You just needed to know the background. If it is the Iris(h) it is a coum and hence "should not flower now".
Then there is a two I think is similar and I think they flowered without foliage.
Then there is one that i Think looked more spidery then the rest.
Then two that flowered with foliage and I first thought they where hederifolium but that one seems to flower without foliage.
The white ones are part of some I bought cheaply that had different names than usual.
We have got plants in several different occations and some are the big wild collected? hederifolium. Some have been given to us by friends in Hungary and others where bought in bloom in a Hungarian gardencenter. So there be many different or just a few but from different sources.
Hope I get some suggestions and also of what to look for when trying to idenify them myself.
Kind regards
Joakim
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lovely pictures Diane - must have been wonderful there.
A couple of quick pictures of one of my cyclamen which looks repectable c mirabile
from the top and side and then hederifolium Fairy Rings - who thought of a name like that - ugg!
Sue
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Here in Portugal is the C. persicum doing fine outside but I never manage to find the seeds only the new plants. They seem to be more and more green compared with the parent for each generation. Is that always the case?
The foliage was lovely and different in shape as well as in colour so would anyone identify cyclamen without the flowers? Or the reverse identify cyclamen from the flower without the foliage?
Hi Joakim
It is often possible to identify cyclamen from flower alone, or foliage alone, or tuber alone. But it depends on the individual. All three are best for a confirmation. The other very useful factor is the time of flowering and producing leaves. So we need to know a bit more information about your plants. Where are your pictures taken? If they are in Sweden in the open garden, then most likely all are hederifolium or purpurascens. If any of your pictures are taken in Portugal then that adds a different factor to the identification.
In my experience, hederifolium usually flowers first, then makes leaves, but the flowers continue, so you will find both together at the moment. Coum starts to make leaves now, and also makes buds now but the flowers will not open until December or January at the earliest. I sometimes find that coum buds will sit for 5-6 months before opening. All species have variations in the order of leaf and flower produced, and there are always exceptions, these are general principles. One of the first things to look for in flower identification is whether the flower has auricles (hederifolium, africanum and graecum have them, coum, purpurascens do not.)
This is my attempt at ID of your plants:
1. Irish one is not a coum, but it’s not very obvious what it is until the flower unfurls a bit more and easier if we could see the leaves.
2. flowering without foliage is a hederifolium
3. pink is probably a purpurascens?
4. flowering with foliage is hederifolium
5. pinker is hederifolium
6. spidery is not very obvious. Was this picture taken recently? it’s probably a purpurascens
7. cyclamen white is a hederifolium pure white form
8. white buds probably a coum. If so, it may well sit with these buds for several months until they open. Never before Christmas with me, although some people find they may open early in December (there’s always exceptions!)
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I'd agree Diane, but suggest that Joakim's plant 1 may be purpurascens too since it seems to lack auricles. Plant 8 is more likely to be hederifolium I think because coum should have produced leaves by now.
Thanks too for the wonderful pictures from the CS show 8)
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The Cyclamen Society held its Autumn Northern show today at Birmingham Botanical Gardens.
Northern show ...... in Birmingham! ::)
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Quite.
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I suppose it IS north of Watford, Anthony :(
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Northern show ...... in Birmingham! ::)
The other three are at Wisley, so Birmingham is "the" northern show.
Some of us that live north of London have pushed for a more events north of Wisley, so after a lot of hard work by certain Midlands members, now there is a Midlands group of the Cyclamen Society. This group meet this Sunday 28 September at Norton Community Centre, Stourbridge, with lectures, plant sales and discussion followed by a trip "behind the scenes" at Ashwood nurseries. Please pm me if you would like more information, timing, etc.
I am sure that if any further north members would care to organise an event, or show, their efforts would be appreciated.
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I hope that all forumists north of Watford will express their support to Diane and her ilk for their efforts to bring plantlife to these outlying areas.......keep up the good work , Diane!
Anyone who has been involved with any joint ventures with the RHS , e. g. in Scotland, will know it is not an easy path to tread! :-X
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I think the fritillaria group holds its 'Northern' meeting at Loughborough which to some of us is the East Midlands.
I may be wrong but I also think the member who reports on cyclamen growth for the north lives in Cheshire.
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I think the fritillaria group holds its 'Northern' meeting at Loughborough which to some of us is the East Midlands.
Tony
I thought it was Harrogate.
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I think the fritillaria group holds its 'Northern' meeting at Loughborough which to some of us is the East Midlands.
Tony I thought it was Harrogate.
The Frit group is another group with "northern" members who have battled to get meetings north of Wisley. The northern venue for meetings has varied and has even been as far north as Blackpool, where I remember the BD gave an excellent presentation
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and has even been as far north as Blackpool, where I remember the BD gave a presentation
Indeed, Diane....... I remember having to equip him with travel sickeness pills to support him on the great southern trek............ ;D ;) ::) :P ;) ;)
He's off to Exeter in a few weeks.... he's training in a hyperbaric chamber even as I write this :o ;)
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and has even been as far north as Blackpool, where I remember the BD gave a presentation
Indeed, Diane....... I remember having to equip him with travel sickness pills to support him on the great southern trek............ ;D ;) ::) :P ;) ;)
He's off to Exeter in a few weeks.... he's training in a hyperbaric chamber even as I write this :o ;)
Was Ian not afraid his igloo would have melted, not that there's much chance of that in Scotland, by the time he got back? ::) If the Cyclamen Soc have three shows, then I suggest East, West and South would be acceptable names, but 'Northern' contravenes the Trade Descriptions Act! ;) ;D ;D
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If the Cyclamen Soc have three shows, then I suggest East, West and South would be acceptable names, but 'Northern' contravenes the Trade Descriptions Act! ;) ;D ;D
The Cyclamen soc have four shows, three at Wisley and one in Birmingham, i.e. "north" of Wisley. The wording is mine, and intended to highlight the southern bias. ::)
I remember having to equip him with travel sickeness pills to support him on the great southern trek
And some of us will need to dig out our travel sickness tablets and ice axes to prepare us for our journey to the far north next weekend ...
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Was Ian not afraid his igloo would have melted, not that there's much chance of that in Scotland, by the time he got back?
This was a cause for concern in previous years, Anthony, but since he rebuilt his igloo using styrofoam fish boxes, he has been able to venture forth with a more settled mind ::) ;) ;D
And some of us will need to dig out our travel sickness tablets and ice axes to prepare us for our journey to the far north next weekend ...
...and what a very warm welcome will await you when you arrive, Diane! :-*
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since he rebuilt his igloo using styrofoam fish boxes
nice thought ;D
...and what a very warm welcome will await you when you arrive, Diane! :-*
Can't wait ;) ;)
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Maybe next year.
This year it clashed with the Loughborough Show where Ian Green is giving a talk on 'Fritillarias of Iran' :) 8) :)
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Maybe next year.
This year it clashed with the Loughborough Show where Ian Green is giving a talk on 'Fritillarias of Iran' :) 8) :)
We will hold you to that, Arthur! Understandable to fancy that Frit. Talk, though!!
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A few of the autumn cyclamen here.
Cyclamen rohlfsianum was among the first to flower, this big plant was a gift from a friend :o
Cyclamen colchicum has very long lasting flowers with a distinctive scent
Cyclamen mirabile is smaller and daintier
Cyclamen graecum comes in many forms. White, 'Glyfada' pink with silver leaves, ssp anatolicum very short stemmed.
My greenhouse bed is at its best right now - still worrying what will happen to them if we ever get to move house!
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Wonderful plants Tony !
The mirabile is admirable.. 8)
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In July when I came home from the mountains some Cyclamen corms had awaiting for me, from Tony Goode. Now, that I came home from the same mountains, the mirabile welcomed me with a little flower, and the graecums have beautiful leaves! :D I will make a pic soon, I hope.
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Loved the white C. coum, and the bank of them is just a sight for sore eyes. I have one question,though. what does the CS indicate? Sorry if this is a simple question, I'm still learning about cyclamen....
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Christine, I reckon this CS refers to the Cyclamen Society, their seed etc.
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That solid silver leaf mirabile is a stunner!! Beautiful plant and beautiful pic. Great shot of the graecum ssp anatolicum as well, but then very few of the pics you post AREN'T good pics!! :D Thanks for taking the time to post them all for us. 8)
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Thanks Maggi, it all makes sense now.... I'm hopeless at acronyms...
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Diane and Ashley Thanks for the help :)
Sorry for the late reply but thanks a lot for the identification. All plants shown are grown in open ground in Southern Sweden under a beach hedge with some pine branches to protect from being eaten by Bambi during winter.
I only had limited batteries so I did not take as many photos as I would have liked nor did I take them disciplined with flower first and then foliage so that made "putting it together harder". All pictures where taken a week before posting.
I have truly enjoyed the nice plants seen here.
I think I will do some indirect breeding in Portugal with persicum by buying nice ones and have them close and let the bees do there bit. They are not as abundant here in Portugal as in Sweden and even Hungary so I will have to have my eyes more open. Maybe they are less popular amongst the trade since they survive and people do not need to buy new ones as often as where there are a Winter?
How easy are Cyclamen from seeds (seedlists seeds)? I have only tested once and they did not germinate (probably my fault). My mother have tested by just scattering seeds around where we have the plants but we are not sure the new plants are not seedlings from the plants grown there or new plants.
Kind regards
Joakim
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Joakim
It is really very easy to grow Cyclamen from seed. Seed from our seedlist is no problem if you follow some simple steps.
1.Tip the seed into hand-hot water (40C) containing a little washing-up liquid and allow it to soak for 24 hours
2. Decant off the water and repeat the procedure.
3. After the second soak sow immediately.
A higher moisture content is restored to the seed, and any germination inhibitors are removed.
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Thanks for this great advice Art.
I hope I will have more Cyclamen in a few year with this knowledge.
I bet more people will benefit from this.
Kind regards
Joakim
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Here is an other one to identify.
This time it is growing in Hungary in open ground (but with some weeds) and it is only one plant so the flower and the foliage belongs to the same flower.
I compared the foliage with the ones in Phillips&Rix of C. purpurascens and it looks similar. The problem is that the book does not have C. hederifolium leaf to campare with.
Is it C. purpurascens?
Phillips&Rix describes Auricle "as small ear-like projections on the leaf base." This does not help me since I compared C. purpurascens in the book with C. graecum and I only saw the dented edges of C. graecum as a difference and one of the C. purpurascens also had this so I do not get the thing.
So none of my previous plants were C. cilicum or C. mirabile? Can they be ruled out due to temperature (winter minimums are -10C) or was the flowers wrong? I know that the way to separate C. africanum with C. hederifolium is to plant it outside and if it dies it was C. africanum. That might not be the case in Portugal was that the hesitation Dianne? Sorry to come with even more questiones but I am trying to understand and I am not always as fast as I would have wanted.
By the way does the following generations (of C. persicum) get less and less silvery foliage? There does not seem to be any "green" ones around to dilute it with, so to say, so it is not as simple as that.
Kind regards
Joakim
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You're right Joakim; this is purpurascens.
It can be distinguished from hederifolium by its lack of auricles but also having 'beaded' leaf edges (among other differences).
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Ashley thanks for the confirmation :)
Ashley or anyone can You explain auricles I do not understand this and does not get it from the dictionaries or ear-shaped or ear-lobed shaped part?
Kind regards
Joakim
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As well as being a trainee Croconut I am very much a beginner as far as Cyclamen are concerned. Here are a few pictures of a plant I can claim no credit for as I bought it last Tuesday from the plant stall at my AGS local group meeting because it took my breath away. The plant was grown by a local grower, Mike Quest, who I know 'lurks' on the Forum, so if you read this Mike it's time you joined us.
I looked up Cyclamen cyprium 'E. S.' in Chris Grey Wilson's book 'Cyclamen' and here i a precised version of what he had to say about it.
" Elizabeth Strangman passed on some beautifully marked leaf forms of Cyclamen cyprium to Peter Moore at Tilebarn Nursery. E.S. stands for Elizabeth Strangman as might be expected, although it has been put about, quite wrongly, that it stands for 'Extra Silvery'. The flowers are identical with the more normal leaf forms. The original plants were selected by Hilda Davenport Jones in the 1960's and were passed by Ray Cobb to Elizabeth Strangman at Washfield Nurseries in Sussex. Elizabeth in turn passed them to Peter Moore. Similar plants formerly offered by Potterton and martin, may share the same origin"
Enjoy.
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Very nice. I have never been able to get plants through the winter and there will not be third time lucky
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David
a very nice purchase.
I spoke to Ray a few days ago and he has just lost his last plant and I am going to replace it for him when I see him next month. He gace me seedlings from seed of his plants some years ago and I have raised several generations.It is very variable and it is essential to weed out what might be considered poor specimens.
I sent a lot of seed of it to the AGS seed exchange a few days ago.
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" Elizabeth Strangman passed on some beautifully marked leaf forms of Cyclamen cyprium to Peter Moore at Tilebarn Nursery. E.S. stands for Elizabeth Strangman as might be expected, although it has been put about, quite wrongly, that it stands for 'Extra Silvery'.
David - lovely leaf form - thanks for showing. For what it is worth, I can certainly confirm that, when she closed down Washfield Nursery, Elizabeth Strangman passed several very nice forms of cyclamen & some galanthus (including a particularly fine form of g. ikariae, which is one of my favourite snowdrops) to Peter Moore at Tilebarn Nursery.
By the way, if you have not bought from Peter, I can thoroughly recommend him - he grows an extensive range of cyclamen, sells by Mail Order & his plants are always in superb condition.
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Chris, thanks for the buying tip.
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Can I second Chris's endorsement of Tilebarn Nursery? If you are able, do pay a visit for not only does Peter Moore grow a wide range of cyclamen he also has an extensive range of dwarf bulbs only available to visitors. It is one of the best nurseries I know.
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My Crocus banaticus and mathewii came from Tilebarn Nursery. 8)
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By the way, if you have not bought from Peter, I can thoroughly recommend him - he grows an extensive range of cyclamen, sells by Mail Order & his plants are always in superb condition.
And he is just about the ONLY UK nurseryman prepared to export to this part of the world now. The cyclamen I've had from him have all been great, not a single loss even with the season turn around. C. cyprium 'ES' was one.
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David,
That silver Cyclamen cyprium is very special. Far superior to anything I've seen before. Beautiful!!!!! :o
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Temperatures are still above 30c and not even one drop of rain yet
but my Cyclamen seems to love it.
some photos from this morning.
C. colchicum
C. graecum ssp anatolicum
C. hederifolium ssp. confusum -good color
C. persicum var autumnale - miniature form
C. rohlfsianum
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Some more [hotos:
C. africanum
hederifolim album
2 leaf forms of my persicum 'Persian Beauty' just started to set leaves
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These, and especially the plant in the last pic, are stunning Oron. 8) Keep them coming. :)
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Outstanding persicum Oron and cyprium David :o
If ever you have a few seed to spare ... ;)
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Wonderful leaf forms David and Oron - absolutely stunning !
Great buy you did there David !!
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I lose too many of these half-hardy species and wonder when best to keep dry and how much to water during the winter.
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Here are some Cyclamen species photographed in Erich Pasche's greenhouse today.
The flowers of C. colchicum are a little bit darker than usual
The persicum leaves may not be as spectacular as those from Oron, nevertheless I'll show them here
Gerd
C.africanum
C. colchicum dark
C.mirabilis
C.persicum1
C.persicum2
C.persicum3
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Oron, lovely photos. Would you consider putting your location onto your postings so I can see where you are in the world, obviously somewhere warmer than here, that's for sure. many thanks again for the wonderful pics.
Edit by Maggi: Oren has now made a change to his profile to show his location 8)
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Spectacular leaves all right, and the flowers are pretty good too. :D Gerd, Erich's persicum leaves are not to be sneezed at!
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LOVLY cyclamens
Here I am happy with far simpler plants that in principal are standard garden center varieties but there a re not that common in Portugal. No special leaf forms but ok and the colours match my bouganvillas. I speant 14€ for 4 cyclamen and 2 bouganvilla. All to be grown on the balcony.
Who knows what their off spring will be like. Hopefully I will find some more interesting patterns later to mix in the blend.
Kind regards
Joakim
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Oron
Your persicum 'Persian Beauty' has an excellent/outstanding leaf. Did you grow from seed, or buy the plant. hopefully one from Peter Moore.
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Art,
Mother plant of what I named 'Persian Beauty' was collected in the wild by me in northen Israel.
for some reason it was quite a 'weak' plant, meaning it doesn't have long life...
for the last 6 years I have been selecting stronger plants which hopfully will do better.
This kind of pattern is extremely rare, it is the first time i have found something like that.
There is another plant called 'Begonia Leaf' which starts to set leaves this week, these have curly and highly serrated leaves, when I will load the photo you will agree with me why I have chosen this name.
By the way Jan Bravenboer lists Persian Beauty in his seeds list. [from plants i have sent him]
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Oron, Gerd - thanks for showing this wonderful cyclamen - the leafs of the different persicums are very special - never have seen somthing like "Persian Beauty"- Congratulations!
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I am planing to put the C. persicum outside and would like them as "ground cover" for my Hibiscus sp. bought at the botanical garden. The Hibiscus looks like rosa-chinensis to me so I do not know why they had them as H. sp? Would C.persicum like to never to dry out as is the case with Hibiscus?
Martin has once talked about C. persicum as a possible "ground cover" for Rhododendron since it seems to be possible to have it running over the summer if watered. I put some seedlings with the Rhododendrons and will see if they survive.
The soil for the hibiscus will be more normal garden soil maybe with a bit of water retentive material. The top layer where the C. persicum would grow might get som expanded clay below and even some perlite in the mix to ceap it better drained.
Regarding the Garden center C. persicum I bought I was surprised that most of the foliage did not have read backside. I thought that was standard! Is there some other genes in the Garden center C. persicum so that they might be hybrids of some sorts? They are not stated to be C. persicum so they could have mixed parentage. Rix and Philips talk about them as selections.
The plantings will be done in Portugal since they would die for surtain in Sweden. Both cyclamen and hibiscus unless different ones would be chosen.
Kind regards
Joakim
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Joakim,
C. persicum [the species] can be used as ground cover giving it the right conditions.
The persicums you have shown us in the photos are not the wild species but cultivars,
these do not last very long, even here where conditions are optimal for growing persicums, I treat the cultivars as annuals. Occasionally some strains are better and can last few seasons, mainly the small sized flowers.
As for the reddish color on the back side of the leaf, most of the cultivates strains lost this characteristic probably because it has less importance in the final product..
So I suggest you to try the species.
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Joakim - I would like to reinforce what Oron has told you - what you have are known as 'Florist' forms of persicum, which are very tender & not frost hardy - in the UK these are sold by Florists/Garden Centres and are for growing indoors only.
Peter Moore of Tilebarn Nursery sells several forms of species persicum, most of which originated from Israel, and these have come unscathed through our English winters outside in the garden, have flowered and set seed - these are what you need to get hold of - Peter can be contacted at tilebarn.nursery@virgin.net and is happy to send to you in Europe.
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By the way Jan Bravenboer lists Persian Beauty in his seeds list. [from plants i have sent him]
Thanks for this information Oron; I'd certainly like to grow it.
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The smaller types of the florist persicums (sold here as Shady Lady cyclamen... these are miniature varieties, not the bigger florist types) are perfectly hardy in my case, although not all plants. You never know which ones will survive and which ones won't, but some have lasted here for 5 years and seed about a bit too. Some of the big florist ones will survive outside here as well (I have a couple of those that are 3 years old out in the garden, but the smaller ones do much better). I mention this because of the statement that they are not frost hardy..... we get to -6'C every year (most years -8'C) and I guarantee that our cyclamens get frost in some form or other. I'd say give it a try with a few of them (don't try just one or you might get one that isn't when another might be) and persevere. You weed out the ones that won't grow, but the ones that will tolerate it will survive and hopefully seed for you. A lot of plants that "won't" grow may just in the right spot in your garden, so give it a try. The plants after all don't read books. ;) ;D
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You are welcome Ashley,
Last seoson's harvest was really poor for me, other wise I would have speared some seeds,
hopfully next spring will be better.
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Hi Oron,
There are exceptions to all rules I suppose. My mum had a Cyclamen she bought at a supermarket and gave to me when it finished flowering. Not knowing any better at the time, I stuck it in the ground and left it. It has now been there for at least 8 years and has grown to become a very large plant. Here is one leaf, which measures 8.5cm square. Its unremarkable except that it is very hardy. The foliage is ho hum, and the flowers are very large, pale pink, and clash horribly with my daffodils that come up beside it (must move them one day....). I'm sure its one of those commercial jobs, but it has settled in nicely in Northumberland, where the temp regularly dips below freezing in winter. It even has offspring growing alongside it now too, I noticed. I have only leaf to show you right now, but they are not very special anyway.
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Five of these self-sowed in a pot of Carmichaelia. Four are identical to this one and the other is green with normal markings and they all look like persicum. The only two persicums I have are unremarkable - Cyclamen persicum cw Rhodes or Israel #3249-12 from the Cyclamen Society.
I show two others in my inventory but doubt the seed was sown, maybe I set the seed on the greenhouse shelf and they fell into the pot.
Cyclamen persicum ex CSE-F S11 N90431
Cyclamen persicum ex CSE-F 91-310
Do they look like persicum to the experts out there?
Lastly a pot of africanum in bloom.
johnw
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Hi Oron,
There are exceptions to all rules I suppose.
I agree with you, Luckily!!! there are exceptions... I am growing some [againts all rules] C. purpurascens, coum cucasicum and elegans
in my garden in temperatures that can reach 36c easily....and they survive and almost evergreen with me.
In my opinion miracles happans growing plants.
By the way are you sure your moms plant isn't C. purpurascens? ??? :-\
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John,
Your silvery 'Christmas tree' patterned leaf is no doubt C. persicum.
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Hi and thanks to all that replied. :)
In Sweden the plants are almost used as a "un-cut cutflower". When the flowers are gone so is the plant unless there i a frost-free glassed veranda or so.
Here in Portugal my mother-in-law has a few that is seeding around in a pot. All seedlings seems to have red back. We do not have real frosts here and these were under some cover from the roof so they were a bit protected. I will plant this out in the pot. They might survive or they might not and if not due to many reasons.
My fear was that the planting with Hibiscus would be to wet? Any comments on that?
I will try to get hold of some nice ones more true to he species through the seed exchange that is less (in)breed and hence hardier.
It is good to know where really nice ones can be found and if these "Florist" ones like my way of growing I might get even nicer ones from the sources suggested.
Regarding purpurascens, I have one in Hungry and there it also gets very warm summers around 35 C and this summer was up close to 40C so some are hardier than others in both ends so to say. Maybe I will take some to Portugal???
Once again many thanks
Joakim
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Hi Oron,
I've no idea really about its identity. Do you need to see the flower to say? If so, I'll scan a flower in when it starts to produce, but won't be until beginning of 2009. I had just assumed it to be C. persicum because it was bought in a supermarket. You don't expect to get anything other than ordinary-ness in places like that.
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Hi Chris,
A flower would help the identification, but if you say it blooms at the beginning of the year it is more probible to be persicum as you mentioned.
C. purpurascens blooms around July.
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It blooms for a long time starting in Jan/Feb but not until July, that's for sure. Flowers are quite big.
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Thanks Oron.
johnw
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Oron,
Here is a better photo of the plant in situ, it was dark last night so I scanned just one leaf, the whole plant is about 2ft square, but with a few 'babies' around it.
Also, I have a C. persicum I bought from the members plant table at the Discussion Weekend last year. This may have a better chance of being species I reckon. Its got lovely foliage....
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Chris,
Seeing the photos it is definitely a cultivar of C. persicum.
From your description of its hardiness, and the healthy appearance I think it is worthy of growing it on a larger scale.
Leaves looks very thick a fact that might help its hardiness.
Very nice!!!
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There are interspecific hybrids between purpurascens and persicum around here (Cyclamen 'Odorella'). It is said they are hardy outside.
Might this be an answer to the problem?
Gerd
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Gerd,
I'm afraid not,
'Odorella' is quite a new hybrid, the plant shown by Chris is 8 years old.
Also, 'Odarella' is sterile, and in the photo you see new seedlings of the mother plant.
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Could be Gerdk, I have no way of knowing.
The one with the very nicely marked leaves is not related to the one living outside, just in case I muddled things up, so that one is unlikely to be hardy, which is why it is kept in a pot. I showed the underside of the foliage just so you could see it is marked in purple. Can either of you tell me if this is the true C. persicum species?
The first of the three pictures is of the one that lives outside, keeps its foliage year round and is very sturdy. Oron - yes, the leaves are very thick and fleshy. If you want, I could send you one of its progeny to examine more closely - pm me if you are interested.
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How sensitive is Cyclamen persicum for rain?
Since instructions was to water on the saucer I presume the foliage might be a bit sensitive or is that just indoors where there is no wind to dry the plants?
I only dared to plant the C.persicum closest to the wall of the house and not in the side of the pot that gets more rain.
I also had some extra drainage below the Cyclamen with expanded clay balls and some sand. If it sounds totally off the wall please let me know!
Further out I planted fuchsia and in the sand layer tulips and crocus. The main plant is two Hibiscus sp (rosa-chinensis) that is NOT treated to be small indoor plants so they grow a lot! Great buying at 2€ each! Especially the 70Cm white with red throught :)
Could I have planted the C. persicum where it might get some rain. It is less than what an unprotected are would get and still that is not so much.
Sorry to ask so much about flowers that is so ordinary but we have to start somewhere do we not?
Kind regards
Joakim
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Here is the planting
First the cyclamen with an extra hibiscus that will move this weekend.
Here it is seen how well the cyclamen liked to be crammed into one pot indoors.
Second an attempt to show the size of the Hibiscus (and also the size of our balcony).
Kind regards
Joakim
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Joakim, the advice to water the cyclamen from the saucer is not so much because the leaves do not like to be wet, but to prevent water from sitting in the dip on the top of the corm and staying wet so allowing damp rot to begin. I think you will be okay with the ones around the hibiscus, though I would try not to pour water directly on the cyclamen corms, but aaround the edges.
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Thanks for the advice Maggi
I am not sure if I will put two more in the front it sounds as it is possible. I intend to water from the side.
Kind regards
Joakim
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I think you could put two more in, Joakim..... they will not steal much goodness from the hibiscus which should be well able to live in harmony with the cyclamen.
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This is most helpful, Maggi. I have lost a rather large corm of C. mirabile to rot having planted it a bit too deep and watering from above. I'll be very careful from now on with my pot grown cyclamen watering.
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Nice when my ignorance helped Chris even if it was through Maggi :)
Maggi my fear was most that it would get problems with more rain further from the house wall.
Here is a photo to show the new plantation.
Sorry that the colours are a bit unnatural but it was pitch dark when I took the photo.
Kind regards
Joakim
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Noticed a strange flower among my Cyclamen hederifolium. Petals not curved back, is this common?
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Don't think it's really common Mick but the same thing was present on a couple of small pots of C. persicum that I bought for my kitchen window sill. For three months all the flowers were spread out like that. Then they had a bit of a break and when they started again, the flowers were normal.
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Glad to have been of help, Christine and Joakim!
By the way, Christine, many thanks for the dactylorhiza seed, safely delivered via Sue.... all now scatterred around the garden/troughs..... watch this space, eh? !! :-*
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some in flower at the moment
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Cracking plants, Tony.
It seems, you follow the requirements which commercial cyclamen growers in Germany had in the past:
A good cyclamen has to stand on its flowers if you turn the pot upside down!
Gerd
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Great Stuff, Tony!! 8)
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Maggi - that seed is one of the following three species, I have no idea which one lol Got them as a job lot from Woolmans years ago, paid a bomb for them and this one is the finest of the three, tight pole of purple every spring. the other two are much more lax in their flower racemes and not as noticeable. Maybe someone knows which one it is likely to be. I lost the labels long ago.
Dactylorhisa incarnata
Dactylorhisa maculata
Dactylorhisa purpurella
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Gerd that often happens when I drop them!
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I have around 170 Cyclamen Society plants (collected on field trips) in my care and recently I have taken photos of all of the Cyclamen mirabile collected on the '03 and '04 trips. I have posted this link on a couple of other websites, so apologies if you are seeing these yet again. Link here: http://s463.photobucket.com/albums/qq353/Tim_Murphy/
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Hello, Tim, thanks for dropping in with the link!
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Hello,
I have an identification problem:
I got seeds as intaminatum and grew these plants. Am I right calling them cilicicum?
All the best from Linz
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Hello Pauli, your plants are definitely C. cilicium.
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And lovely ones too, especially the white. :P
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my almost white but not quite mirabile. It just has a touch of pink around the mouth of the flower.
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It is quite lovely, Tony.... thanks for sharing it with us.
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i have one seed germinated from it a year ago and so wait to see what the flowers on that are like.Probably in 2010.
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Hello Tim, I have just been looking at your Cyclamen mirabile pictures. Marvelous plants in very good condition and flowering very well, setting seed too. They are in very good hands. I did not order seed from the Cyclamen society this year as I have more than enough to cope with already but I feel the urge to try more C. mirabile - maybe next year!
Roma
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Some persicums from this morning.
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Hello Oron, really fine leafforms :o
Here some actual pics:
1. C. cilicium, a pink form under a palmtree
2. C. hederifolium (I think so)
3. C. persicum leaf- from seed received as "Tilebarn Karpathos" - shape of the leaf is nearer my C. rohlfsianum than the other C. persicum I grow.
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3. C. persicum leaf- from seed received as "Tilebarn Karpathos" - shape of the leaf is nearer my C. rohlfsianum than the other C. persicum I grow.
Hans , I'm really curious to see what flower it will set,
T.B. karpathus has beautiful Cerise color flowers but quite ordinary leaf form.
Yours does look as if it has rohlfsianum blood...
Great cilicium under the P. roebelenii.
finally your hederifolium looks to me like ssp. confusum
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Hans,
That Tilebarn one has a great leaf. Not quite like any Cyclamen I've seen before.
Oron,
That 'Begonia Leaf" one is interesting, isn't it. Always good to see interesting leaf forms of hederifolium, well actually for any species. :D
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Oron and Paul thanks for your kind comments. :D
I am also very curious how it will flower - looks like a hybrid, but it is strange as we talk about a hybrid between an autumn flowering and a (normally) spring flowering species... ::)
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After checking the pot I am more and more sure my "tilebarn karpathos" is a hybrid, as Oron suspected.
Also the second seedling (not as beautiful marked) does not look like a pure C. persicum - here a picture of them together with seedlings of C. persicum and C. rohlfsianum.
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Hans,
we we all wait to see the flower,any way if it is the case , it will be the first hybrid known of the two species. ??? :-\ ???
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:o ::) - perhaps they are just strange persicum - or strange rohlfsianum... ::)
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Oron, it seems there exist (or existed ::)) artifical Hybrids between C.persicum and C. rohlfsianum - have never heard of them, but searching for the chromosome number of rohlfsianum I found this:
KOBAYASHI, N. und K. OGAWA 1994: Production of
interspecific hybrids between Cyclamen persicum
Mill. and C. rohlfsianum Aschers. or C. libanoticum
Hildebr. by ovule culture. Breed Sci. 44 (Suppl. 2), 85
Here a part of the text:
http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=q027r446r2797u70&size=largest (http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=q027r446r2797u70&size=largest)
This hybrids were grown by embryo culture - by colchicine treatment it seems it was possible to get fertile hybrids - the question is, where are this plants now...
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Hans,
The only persicum hybrid I know of is the one Persicum X pupurascens created in a laboratory in Japan and already in commerce.
This article is very interesting, maybe they keep them in a top secret place till they have enough plants.... ::) ???
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Cyclamen cyprium flowers reliably and as an addition there is a large variety of leaf patterns. Here are some pics from today
Gerd
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Some fine leaf forms there Gerd. I've never seen a cyprium like that last one before, uniformly pinkish-purple (?).
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Thank you Ashley.
I am not familiar with describung colours - even in German.
I would call it a very dark green with brown- purple - unfortunately not the kind of purple as Acer palmatum 'Atropurpureum' for instance.
The pink shade is from a lamp in the greenhouse.
Gerd
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Gerd beautiful variation in the leaf forms
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Two Tonys in complete agreement. Perhaps there will be enough seed for both of us? ;)
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Gerd,
Fantastic leaves. My plant is nowhere near as interesting as those. Love the last couple of marked ones in particular, but the last one with the dark leaf is interesting too. Always good to see something new. :D
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Two Tonys in complete agreement. Perhaps there will be enough seed for both of us? ;)
I'll try to do the very best - I hope the plants too!
Gerd
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Gerd , striking leaf variations on your C. cyprium .-much more handsome than mine ,raised from the Elizabeth Strangman clone 'Snowflake' ,
Otto.
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Thank you, Otto.
Here is the last flower of Cyclamen colchicum which meets the first of Cyclamen elegans.
Gerd
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Thank you, Otto.
Here is the last flower of Cyclamen colchicum which meets the first of Cyclamen elegans.
Gerd
Gerd , your Cyc. elegans in flower and foliage looks very much like mine , which I grew from seed received from Michael Kammerlander , is yours from the same source ?
ciao Otto.
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Otto,
This is a complicated story! I received the plant from my late friend Bernd Wetzel. He told me (if I remember well) that he got it from Dr. Hans Simon of Marktheidenfeld. It was stated that the origin was a Manfred Koenen collection from Iran.
So, if Michael Kammerlander received it from one of the persons mentioned above it might be the same stock.
Gerd
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Gerd how names and memories come back. I think you took us to meet Bernd when Lesley and I visited you in 1986 on our way to the DDDR. It was a couple of weeks after Chernobyl and you gave me some super plants.
I heard later if I am correct that he died in an accident in China.
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Gerd how names and memories come back. I think you took us to meet Bernd when Lesley and I visited you in 1986 on our way to the DDDR. It was a couple of weeks after Chernobyl and you gave me some super plants.
I heard later if I am correct that he died in an accident in China.
Tony,
Yes, I remember too - fortunately the DDR disappeared - unfortunately we are 22 years older!
Dieter Zschummel was one of the last persons who met Bernd in Lijiang in 1997, just one day before 5 persons died on a mountaim road because the driver missed a curve.
Gerd
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At a talk by Rob Potterton to our group last month, he made reference to that tragic accident and those poor men were in our thoughts .....It is not only the plant hunters of earlier times who face danger and death in their expeditions.
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What beautiful cyclamen from everyone, but what a sad end to a plantsman's life.
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David's confused again?? Is it Cyclamen cilicum or is it C. cilicicum I seem to read both names in the same publication, or am I missing something?
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David's confused again?? Is it Cyclamen cilicum or is it C. cilicicum I seem to read both names in the same publication, or am I missing something?
NEITHER It is cilicium ;)
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David :
please look here :
http://www.cyclamen.org/cilicium_set.html
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Thanks both, obviously I had an 'i' complaint when I typed my post! ;D But having said that I'm still confused because in 'Cyclamen' by Chris Grey-Wilson 'cilicicum' is mentioned as well in the context of forma cilicicum?
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David
Having Googled 'cilicicum' I too am confused, since other genus are spelt cilicicum e.g. Colchicum, Muscari. There is even an American Nursery that has Cyclamen cilicicum. ??? ??? ???
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I think just a very common typo, David.... happens everywhere..... seems very prevalent spelling on continental websites... especially in Spanish and Italian ??? There is Colchicum cilicicum, which just adds mud to the mix!
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....... and on some American ones too, see
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?12733
You would have thought that the publisher of an important monograph on the species would get it right, wouldn't you?
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....... and on some American ones too, see
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?12733
You would have thought that the publisher of an important monograph on the species would get it right, wouldn't you?
I think I am for the moment on your side David.
I noticed that in Cyclamen Society no author is listed in the Registration.
In my old (not up to date but still useful) Zander (1964) author names are Boissier and Heldreich and it is Cyclamen cilicicum.
Translation of the botanical description says: cilicicus = aus Zilizien (from Cilicia)
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Thank you Luit. I wonder if anyone is able to add to the discussion?
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David ,
I have now looked in my old book from Prof. Hildebrandt ( 1898) -there is a written :
Cyclamen cilicicum
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Ah Hans, thanks for your clarification which now adds further to my confusion ;D
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Search on www.rhs.org.uk only responds to Cyclamen cilicium
Having lived with the dyslexic Bulb Despot for all these years, I now have trouble remembering how to spell Ian, so I'm not much help :-X
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David ,
you have to ask a taxonomist why they have changed it .....maybe we can call this plant :
Cyclamen perplexa
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Yan who! ;D
In Grey-Wilson's 'Cyclamen' he appears to refer to 'Cilicium' throughout that section of the book. It's the Index that refers to 'cilicicum'. Also in the Section giving the A-Z of scientific names 'Cilicicum' is used ??? ???
I shan't sleep now for worrying ;D
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David ,
I have now looked in my old book from Prof. Hildebrandt ( 1898) -there is a written :
Cyclamen cilicicum
On page 176 of his book Prof. Hildebrandt is confused too. He used both names on the same page.
http://bibdigital.rjb.csic.es/Imagenes/P0032_22/P0032_22_0486.pdf (http://bibdigital.rjb.csic.es/Imagenes/P0032_22/P0032_22_0486.pdf)
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Looks as though I'm in good company Luit ;D
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Me too David ;D
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David, I think you should pop out to the pub, have a pint of ber then come home and have a mince-pie... it'll get you in the festive spirit and then even if you are awake all night, it'll be the indigestion and not the cyclamen names ;D
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Grey-Wilson is consistently inconsistent. In his first cyclamen book (1988) he uses 'cilicium' but in his second (1997) he uses both 'cilicium' & 'cilicicum'. As far as I can gather from Stearn's 'Botanical Latin', either would be acceptable in principle - as derived from 'Cilicia', the region of S. Turkey - but presumably only one is correct for the cyclamen in question.
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As a representative of the Cyclamen Society, I consider it my duty to end this confusion.
I will come back with a definitive answer, after the Festive Season. :)
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Thanks Arthur, that's by far the best idea.
Had the pint Maggi but not the mince pie and slept like a baby.
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Once we have received the definitive spelling we will need the definitive pronounciation!
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Once we have received the definitive spelling we will need the definitive pronounciation!
I am looking forward to the following disccussion ;D ;D ;D
- and please, don't forget - there are lots of other plants from the area which contain cilicicum, cilicium, cilicius, chili con carne ???
Gerd
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The accepted name in the RHS Horticultural Database is Cyclamen cilicium (Boiss. & Heldr.). The same name is used by the Kew Herbarium catalogue.
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Gerry ,
I have tried yesterday the same with RHS database ....but it works not with Cyclamen by me -other genera are not a problem ...
could you please send me the correct link to this database - thank you .
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Hans - here is a link - http://www.rhs.org.uk/databases/summary2.asp?crit=cyclamen%20and%20cilicium&Genus=Cyclamen
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Some early flowering cyclamen. Most still seem to be in bud and I would not have expected them for some weeks yet.
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Gerry - many thanks !
I made a mistake - I have searched with this :
http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/home.do
strange - it works for many other plantnames too but not Cyclamen
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Had the pint Maggi but not the mince pie and slept like a baby.
Oh dear, so you woke up every two hours and screamed blue murder ? ::)
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- and please, don't forget - there are lots of other plants from the area which contain cilicicum, cilicium, cilicius, chili con carne ???
Gerd
A good point, Gerd, let us not forget those plants... I myself am looking forward to obtaining seed of Jalapeno chilli con carne..... I'm told it is really hot :P ;)
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Had the pint Maggi but not the mince pie and slept like a baby.
Oh dear, so you woke up every two hours and screamed blue murder ? ::)
Maggi,
I was going to comment exactly the same thing, but you beat me to it. ::)
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Today I found a white Cyclamen x perpuris or "Odorella" in flower - it is an artifical hybrid between Cyclamen persicum and Cyclamen purpurascens - in difference to my other Cyclamen it looks a bit like a "monster" - nothing for my rockery - but nice in a pot at the window.
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I made a mistake - I have searched with this :
http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/home.do
strange - it works for many other plantnames too but not Cyclamen
Hans, this link is only for the monocot database
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Can anyone tell me which Cyclamen this is please? Photographed in Turkey, near Antakya, just west of Syria in semi-shade. No sign of flowers in October 2008.
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Can anyone tell me which Cyclamen this is please? Photographed in Turkey, near Antakya, just west of Syria in semi-shade. No sign of flowers in October 2008.
That is Cyclamen coum, Kees.
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I would like to take this opportunity to apologise to any Forum members who are members of the Cyclamen Society and have not yet received their December Journal. A computer glitch meant that not all membership sheets were sent to the distributor, and then I did not receive the balance of Journals and inserts to send out.
Hopefully the last Journals will be sent despatched on Tuesday. :-[
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Hi Kees,
I also agree with Tim. It should be Cyclamen coum.
In the same area there is also Cyclamen cilicium but you say no sight of flower.
I hope you enjoy your travel.
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good news Arthur, I need something to steady my brain after Christmas madness :D
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As a representative of the Cyclamen Society, I consider it my duty to end this confusion.
I will come back with a definitive answer, after the Festive Season. :)
Arthur, this was the 'cilicium' or 'cilicicum' debate. Are you ready to be definitive? ;D
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David
Apologies for not yet being able to give the definitive answer. I was at a Committee meeting with Brian last Saturday and completely forgot to ask him. :-[ :-[
Kew Plant List : Cyclamen cilicium.