Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

General Subjects => Flowers and Foliage Now => Topic started by: ian mcenery on February 01, 2008, 06:01:51 PM

Title: Hellebores 2008
Post by: ian mcenery on February 01, 2008, 06:01:51 PM
Here is a start to the hellebore season. First a few Aswood plants I have had for a year or so.

The first is a plant that I have been unable to get on camera the colour because it almost radiates. When I first saw this it had been selected for possible breeding - Ashwood do this each year with their best new seedlings- I had fallen in love and aske should it not make the final could I have it. The colour is red with a greenish centre overlaid with a grape like bloom.

The second is a large Neon followed by a double picotee. Then a black and H thibetanus after the slug damage

The last is the result of a cross I made 3 years ago with torquatus as the mom  with a good ashwood black as the pollen donor (that's what it says on the label). Hasn't opened properly yet but looks promising nice foliage too
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on February 01, 2008, 07:13:00 PM
Beautiful collection Ian !
Stunning colours  :o
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Paul T on February 01, 2008, 09:33:15 PM
Very nice.  Love that double picotee in particular.  Never seen anything quite like that before.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Rob on February 01, 2008, 10:51:20 PM
Here is an anemone centered hellebore in the garden. Loads of plants are in bud so I hope we get some good weather next week

Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Maggi Young on February 01, 2008, 10:54:20 PM
Oh dear, I fear for these hellebore flowers in the windy weather... good luck, Chaps!
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Paul T on February 01, 2008, 10:58:45 PM
Rob,

Oh I do like that colour combination in the anemone centred.  Very nice!
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: kaydale on February 01, 2008, 11:18:24 PM
Unreal collection of Hellebores, wish we could get something like that in Tassie!
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Rob on February 01, 2008, 11:25:17 PM
Here is another, this time more double. I took the flower inside and used flash for the photo.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Tony Willis on February 02, 2008, 03:43:38 PM
not much happening in the garden yet but this is H. vesicarius in flower in the greenhouse
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Rob on February 02, 2008, 04:32:57 PM
Tony those are good photos of H. vesicarius

I'm posting a double red from the garden. When the sun shines through the petals it really glows.

Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Maggi Young on February 02, 2008, 06:19:27 PM
Not much happening on the Hellebore front in freezing Aberdeen. These are the buds on H. eric smithii.... only about two or three inches long, surrounded by well-chewed leaves... When this does move forward into flower, the blooms numerous and are VERY long-lasting
 [attach=1]

This brave soul, not bothered by the minus 9 dgrees last night, is about three feet high... growing through little rhodos....  H. argutiflious or perhaps a hybrid.....
[attach=2]
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: ian mcenery on February 02, 2008, 06:41:34 PM
Nice versicarius Tony mine is outside and is very very slow. It is a bit of a cheat really it is in a scree and I am placing a cloche over it in the summer to help give it a baking. I have some seed sown and if it germinates I will grow it inside.

Here is a seedling grown from wild seed of H purpurescens with its first flower just peering through the ground
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: David Nicholson on February 02, 2008, 07:50:19 PM
Have you 'ace' Hellebore growers any tips please on growing from seed. For example, are they best from fresh seed; when is the best time of year to sow dried seed etc etc?
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Tony Willis on February 02, 2008, 08:36:18 PM
I sow mine straight from the pod in early summer and it then germinates in the autumn. Any dried seed I have had I sow straight away and that germinates mostly in late winter early spring.Dried seed often skips a year before germinating
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Paul T on February 02, 2008, 08:44:37 PM
Lovely to see the double red.  Very, very nice!  Seen nothing like that here in Aus, although I'd imagine they'd exist.  My "to die for" hellebore is a duoble black.... seen them in pics on the Graham's Hellebores site, but never seen nor heard of them in Australia.  I love the single blacks and a double would just be the bees knees!

Wonderful to see vesicarius again.  I used to grow it here and it was just so unusual with it's leaves that to me look more like celery than hellebores, those nice flowers, and then those wonderful seed pods.  Mine unfortunately died out after about 4 years for no reason I am aware of.  Unfortunately the seeds never amounted to anything either.  Extremely disappointing to have lost it as it was so unusual.  I am mentioning this only because if you have it, try to create backups.  I find it very rare to lose any Hellebore plant here, so the fact it went means it is a bit tetchier (Yes, I know it is summer deciduous and likes it hotter and drier in summer), plus I am not sure they actually know how long lived it can be as it has been in cultivation for a relatively short time.

As to seed sowing...... I've done a bit of it but will leave answers to the experts.  Fresh seed is DEFINITELY better though, as the only seed I've ever had fail was commercially purchased dry seed from a UK firm.  Dried seed takes longer, while fresh seed will start the following autumn.  If no-one else is forthcoming I am happy to help with my experiences.  Dried seed
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: kaydale on February 02, 2008, 11:34:41 PM
My sister has been right into Hellebores for the last six years or so (mainly concentrating on double and anemone), we have found that fresh is definately best, but also they germinate better if the plants have compost or something around them and we let them drop on the ground.  We prick the seedlings out after their first year.  Because of the amount of seed we do selective crossing and then take the seed pods out that we haven't pollinated.
Below is one of my fav anemone ones that she has grown from seed.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Tony Willis on February 02, 2008, 11:55:56 PM
Paul the vesicarius grows as the dominant plant in some areas upto half an acre square.Some of the plants are so large they must be tens of years old. I have had mine about eight years and some times it produces more shoots than others.One plant died when I think I kept it tii dry in summer
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Paul T on February 02, 2008, 11:58:27 PM
Lesley,

Absolutely beautiful!!

Tony,

Maybe that is what happened to mine.  I am not aware of having done anythign different to the 3 years beforehand, but we have had decidedly hotter and drier summers the last few years so that could just be it.  Maybe it didn't like setting seed, as it died the year it set seed (had flowered previously, but never set seed).
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Rob on February 03, 2008, 12:05:16 AM
Lesley that's a lovely plant. I've got a single with similar markings.

Paul it's a shame you aren't in the UK as the place I get my hellebores, Linnett Farm Plants at Ullingswick, usually has double blacks.

I haven't bought one as yet, but he is having some open weekends this month, so I might get out for a look.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: rob krejzl on February 03, 2008, 12:08:21 AM
Paul,

Try fossicking amongst these (http://www.southcom.com.au/~hortus/catalogue.htm) for a good double red or purple. Failing that, Barb Jennings does a few.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: David Nicholson on February 03, 2008, 12:00:06 PM
'fossicking' what a lovely word, I haven't heard it before, is a Tassie word?
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: David Nicholson on February 03, 2008, 12:06:58 PM
........the place I get my hellebores, Linnett Farm Plants at Ullingswick, usually has double blacks.

I haven't bought one as yet, but he is having some open weekends this month, so I might get out for a look.

Rob, this a nursery I haven't heard of before but I have put on my list of places to go when I am next at my mum-in-laws in Ledbury. I can't find a web site so could you please let me know the dates of the open weekends. Does he specialise in Hellebore or could you recommend him for other stuff as well?
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: David Nicholson on February 03, 2008, 12:09:25 PM
Thanks all for the seed sowing tips. It seems fresh is best or sow dried when possible and wait!
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: ian mcenery on February 03, 2008, 01:03:21 PM
David sowing fresh is best. Leaving seed on existing plants can be OK and for many years I left seed on all my plants and did populate what was then an unfavourable area of the garden with assorted hellebores which was OK. As I had 2 or 3 good plants one or two good ones emerged but dozens of poorer ones were more the order of the day. A few years ago I became ruthless and composted dozens of large but ordinary plants. I replaced these wit a few selcted forms from Aswood and now have a wide range of colours etc. As a result of previous experience I now remove all seeding heads that I don't want to reproduce before ripe and concentrate either on the very best or any I have attempted to make deliberate crosses with. Growing from seed is a lengthy process and amateurs will never be able to compete on garden hybrids with the top specialists because of the access to good stock and the volume of plants produced means that further breeding stock will be improving all of the time.

By contrast as hellebores are notoriously promiscuous and seemingly the only way to guarantee a true species is to grow it from collected seed

The moral of this story is if you are going to grow from seed first make sure you have only the best material to start with as it takes at leat 3/4 years to get a reasonable flowering plant.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Hans J on February 03, 2008, 02:04:19 PM
Hi ,

here some Helleborus pics from me too :

Hell. spec. Calabria

Helleborus siculus : I have grown my plants from seeds w.c. in Sicily in year 2001 by me -from the same seeds I have send a part to Will McLewin - he share it with the Archibalds ......
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Rob on February 03, 2008, 02:08:59 PM
David I haven't got the open weekend dates to hand. There was an advert in this weeks Hereford Times but I didn't keep the paper, as I will get a new copy when it is published on Thursday.

The Linnett Farm Plants phone number is 07917 787856. He is next to the church, but 3 or 4 miles along lanes from the main road so you would need directions if you can visit

He specialises in hellebores and has about 1000 for sale in a poly-tunnel. They are about half the price that Ashwoods charge.

As well as the hellebores he has also bred his own range of cyclamen and has a good selection of them, and a very small number of snowdrops.



Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Maggi Young on February 03, 2008, 02:56:11 PM
I have heard the word "fossicking", I have a friend who uses it quite a lot but I have no idea of the derivation... fine word though!

Lesley, congratulations to Amarlie for her Hellies... that is a very pretty one, good markings and holds itself well.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: David Nicholson on February 03, 2008, 04:39:22 PM
David I haven't got the open weekend dates to hand. There was an advert in this weeks Hereford Times but I didn't keep the paper, as I will get a new copy when it is published on Thursday.

The Linnett Farm Plants phone number is 07917 787856. He is next to the church, but 3 or 4 miles along lanes from the main road so you would need directions if you can visit

He specialises in hellebores and has about 1000 for sale in a poly-tunnel. They are about half the price that Ashwoods charge.

As well as the hellebores he has also bred his own range of cyclamen and has a good selection of them, and a very small number of snowdrops.


Thanks for that Rob I know roughly where it is as it is on one of regular 'take mum-in-law out for run' venues. I seem to know most of Herefordshire and Worcestershgire now as well as a fair spread of Gloucestershire and the Welsh borders. If you could let me know the dates for the open weekends when you have them I would be obliged. Do you by any chance visit Lingen Nursery-I went during last Summer but the Nursery wasn't opening last year for some reason and I would like to know if he has closed for good?
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: David Nicholson on February 03, 2008, 04:41:35 PM
Ian, thanks for that. I really haven't the room for serious Hellebore growing so it would only be a bit of 'messing around' with seedlings.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Rob on February 03, 2008, 05:46:04 PM
I haven't been to Lingen Nursery. I've been to the Ornamental Tree Nurseries at Cobnash, which looks quite close on the map, but didn't know about Lingen.

The Lingen nursery website comes up page not found, so I guess they have closed permanently.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: rob krejzl on February 03, 2008, 07:32:45 PM
Quote
I have heard the word "fossicking", I have a friend who uses it quite a lot but I have no idea of the derivation... fine word though!


Australian slang (but derived from a Warwickshire dialect word for a troublesome person) for a thief who specialises in taking gold dust, and by extension the process of searching for/picking up gold on the surface.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: David Nicholson on February 03, 2008, 07:39:18 PM
Fine word that. I shall now use it with great regularity. 8)
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Paul T on February 03, 2008, 09:15:37 PM
Hadn't realised that fossicking was only an Australian word.

If growing and discarding Helleborus seedlings make sure that you let them flower for a couple of years before the discarding bit.  The first year of flowering with hellebores may have little or no resemblance to what they will look like when mature.  My favourite big, round, filled in pink flowered one was purchased as a "Primrose and Yellow" seedling flowered the first year as a crappy washed out half-spidery pale wishy-washy (do we get the idea yet?  ;D) pinky white colour.  The only reason I didn't ditch it then and there was I didn't get around to it.  The next year it flowered as it does now and there is no way it is voluntarily going anywhere.  Learnt my less that year and make sure all seedlings get two flowering seasons at least before removal.  To be honest I rarely remove the volunteers in the garden even, because I do have a lot of nice parent hellebores so the seedlings are rarely complete rubbish, so I fins some way to rationalise keeping them.  Would be much easier if I had a large acreage instead of the suburbian block that I have!!  ::)
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Maggi Young on February 03, 2008, 09:23:12 PM
My chum uses the word in the sense of to search though "stuff" for hidden meaning or quality... so, in the light of Rob's explanation I did a little fossicking myself and found this:
http://aussiesapphire.wordpress.com/2006/03/18/how-to-fossick-for-sapphire/

"Many visitors to Glen Innes are experienced fossickers who know what they are looking for. However, we often get visitors who have not tried this fun activity before and are looking for some guidance on the basics. Note that for our overseas visitors, fossicking is the same as rockhounding. The exact definition of the term is subject to argument, but in our experience, Aussies use the word fossicking to describe the search for gemstones while rockhounding is used when looking for fossils, mineral specimens and the like."

Now this a meaning for fossicking that I really connect with!

Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Paul T on February 03, 2008, 09:30:14 PM
Basically, although it is technically for gold and gemstones etc, the word is just used to mean that you're searching through something for something (i.e fossicking through the rubbish in the house to find that lost such-and-such).  Blackbirds fossick through a garden for worms etc.  That sort of thing.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Maggi Young on February 03, 2008, 09:41:16 PM
But Paul, to a blackbird, a worm IS gold!
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: ian mcenery on February 03, 2008, 11:26:34 PM
Hi ,

here some Helleborus pics from me too :

Hell. spec. Calabria

Helleborus siculus : I have grown my plants from seeds w.c. in Sicily in year 2001 by me -from the same seeds I have send a part to Will McLewin - he share it with the Archibalds ......

Hans have not been aware of these species are they new to cultivation and can you give a little history please?



Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Paul T on February 04, 2008, 02:12:33 AM
Ian,

Must admit that neither name range bells for me either, but I thought it was just me forgetting things!  :o
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Paul T on February 04, 2008, 02:17:45 AM
Paul,

Try fossicking amongst these (http://www.southcom.com.au/~hortus/catalogue.htm) for a good double red or purple. Failing that, Barb Jennings does a few.

Rob,

After all the discussion of Fossicking I forgot to say thanks for these links.  I must admit that I am wanting to get plants/offsets or something with a reasonable chance of being fairly true.  No idea how stable the ET varieties are in that regard.  From what I have heard Post Offic Farm has fairly stable strains with their seedlings (but obviously they're seedlings and more expensive than seed) but how are ET in that regard?  I know Barb's name but that is about the extent of it.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: rob krejzl on February 04, 2008, 05:14:34 AM
Paul,

You know I share Christopher Lloyd's view of (most) hellebores.  However the phantom weeder likes them, so we are gradually getting a few. Elizabeth Town is still run by the same people who used to get Gary B's praises & I haven't seen any unfavourable remarks on the net about them. The seeds seem large and the numbers per packet generous. I've ordered from them because it seemed better value for money than buying unflowered seedlings only to be disappointed. As for Barb Jennings, look through the old catalogues I've sent you for an idea what she sells.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Tim Murphy on February 04, 2008, 09:49:54 PM
I hope that Hans doesn't mind me jumping in here... Helleborus siculus isn't a valid name for the plants on Sicily. They are presently called Helleborus bocconei (the "multifidus" has been dropped). The two other Italian species to be separated from bocconei are H. liguricus and H. abruzzicus.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Paul T on February 04, 2008, 10:00:19 PM
Thanks Rob!
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Hans J on February 04, 2008, 11:03:02 PM
I hope that Hans doesn't mind me jumping in here... Helleborus siculus isn't a valid name for the plants on Sicily. They are presently called Helleborus bocconei (the "multifidus" has been dropped). The two other Italian species to be separated from bocconei are H. liguricus and H. abruzzicus.

Hi Tim ,

I  do not agree  that H. siculus is a synonym of H. bocconei -they are ( for me ) really different !
They are evergreen -and not decidous like H. bocconei .
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: ian mcenery on February 04, 2008, 11:14:37 PM
Hans my bocconei certainly isn't evergreen - interesting. Can you give more info on Helleborus  Sp Calabria?
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: rob krejzl on February 04, 2008, 11:32:43 PM
Tim,

Quote
I hope that Hans doesn't mind me jumping in here... Helleborus siculus isn't a valid name for the plants on Sicily. They are presently called Helleborus bocconei (the "multifidus" has been dropped). The two other Italian species to be separated from bocconei are H. liguricus and H. abruzzicus.

Does that mean that McLewin & Thomsen have published?
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Hans J on February 05, 2008, 06:53:04 AM
Hans my bocconei certainly isn't evergreen - interesting. Can you give more info on Helleborus  Sp Calabria?

Hi Ian ,

Sorry but I did not read also your earlier note .

From H. siculus exist a good articel from G. Schmiemann in Gartenpraxis - sorry only in german .

To this Helleborus from Calabria :
I found this species in year 2002 by my travel and I asked friends of mine ( Botanists from Calabria )
that I found two different species -one is foeditus - but the other ? my friends told me it is H. bocconei ..
So I decided to take a little seedling with me -after my return I send Will McLewin pics of this plants
( sorry I have not save his mail ) and he told me too this ID .
I will send later in this year more pics -it looks really nice

enclosed are the pics from 2002 -sorry the scanns are not so well
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Tim Murphy on February 05, 2008, 08:06:47 AM
Hi Hans, H. siculus isn't an accepted (or published) name though. H. bocconei grows on Sicily and on the extreme southern tip of Italy as you probably already know. I'm not sure that whether the plants are deciduous or not is enough to separate them. Especially as plants growing in an island climate (probably slightly warmer than the mainland) would probably be evergreen. Hellebores on Krk in Croatia show the same characteristic.

My bocconei from several locations, including Sicily, don't seem different enough (at least visually) to make seperating them a useful thing to do. Of course all of the Italian species are so variable, so it does make knowing where to draw the line between the species, very difficult.

I would like to see more photos of your species hellebores, Hans, as your climate is probably better suited to them than mine. Do you find that your species plants bulk up quickly?

Rob, yes, Will and Matthias published a paper on Italian hellebores in 2006. It was met with mixed reactions and things might change again, but for now it is the most sensible approach for those hellebores.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Hans J on February 05, 2008, 08:31:15 AM
Hi Tim ,

Thank you for your informations .
I will wait ....maybe in some year a other taxonomist will made a other key ... ;D
I'm with Helleborus not so familar like you - I find this plants always by my travels if I search for other favorites plants of mine like Paeonia -they grow often in same locations .

I agree really with you about the variability of the italian species -it is confusing .

I have seen in nature :
H. argutifolius ( Corsica + Sardinia )
H. cyclophyllus ( Parnass Mts./ Greece )
H. foeditus ( from Spain -France)
H. multifidus ( Slowenia ,Croatia and also Krk)
H. niger ( Italy + Croatia ) + H. nig. ssp. macranthus
H. odorus ( on Corfu )
H. orientalis ( in eastern part of Turkey )
H. vesicarius ( south west Turkey )
H. viridis ( Italy + France )
H. viridis ssp. occidentalis ( northern spain )

I will send later more pics of my species Helleborus -I grow some plants from Decora .

To the climate in my area : not all grow succsessfull -because my soil is calcy and I have a warm climate .

I had never succsess with H. thibetanus !

Like weed grows here H. foeditus ,orientalis ,X sternii -all other grow slow

Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: ian mcenery on February 05, 2008, 09:38:46 AM
Thanks Hans very interesting and to my untutored eye the foliage seems to have some relationship to "multifidus" group.
Hellebore species are confusing I know and nomenclature is far from settled and to the non botanical eye confusing to say the least. I am growing a number of species which I had from WM either as plants or in some cases seed and where I have lost labels Tim is trying to sort me out. I do love them for their quiet elegance but I find most have been slow to increase. Perhaps I will make a trip to see these in the wild and this will help me to understand how to grow these better.

Also Tim thanks for your input as always very informed
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Rob on February 07, 2008, 05:02:41 PM
The weekend hellebore sales at Ullingswick are February 9th & 10th and February 16th & 17th 10am to 5pm

Here are some pics of hybrids in my garden, a single yellow and two anemone centered
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: David Nicholson on February 07, 2008, 05:10:31 PM
The weekend hellebore sales at Ullingswick are February 9th & 10th and February 16th & 17th 10am to 5pm

Here are some pics of hybrids in my garden, a single yellow and two anemone centered


Thanks for that Rob, unfortunately I can't make any of them. Nice pictures by the way.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Maggi Young on February 07, 2008, 05:11:42 PM
Nice pix.
And Ullingswick would be   .........what...where   ????????????
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: David Nicholson on February 07, 2008, 06:37:27 PM
Nice pix.
And Ullingswick would be   .........what...where   ????????????


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ullingswick
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: johanneshoeller on February 10, 2008, 05:00:06 PM
Now many H.n. are full in flower in the Austrian Alps. Pixs are taken behind my house (-7°C). Some are reddish.
Hans
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: ian mcenery on February 10, 2008, 05:39:36 PM
Hans marvellous to see them from the wild. They look wonderful  :o
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Paul T on February 10, 2008, 09:23:36 PM
I like those ones with the red stain to them.  Quite unusual.  Very different to those that age to a pinky or apricot colour...... a desirable trait to add to what is in cultivation, that is for sure.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Jane on February 11, 2008, 07:43:50 PM
Hello,
here is a small selection of some of my hellebores flowering in my garden,
Jane
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: chris on February 11, 2008, 08:16:29 PM
we had our Hellebores week-end in the arboretum of Kalmthout, Belgium, here tree of my plants on the show: the third is a verry good H.thibetanus from seed, I sow it 4 years ago
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Paul T on February 11, 2008, 10:30:43 PM
Chris,

Love that dark centred, and the thibetanus is stunning.  I think the last of my seedlings of thibetanus went to the great garden in the sky this year......  I think they're short growign season and my climate are a little touchy.  I'll know next time to give them more shade and moisture than I gave these seedlings.  ::)
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: chris on February 12, 2008, 07:03:58 AM
Paul, H.tibetanus is not a easy plant, I give them deep shadow, I hold my seedlings 2 years in pots, in summer I just hold the pots moist, after 2 years I repot yhem in deep pots because the roots are verry long, I give liquid feed (10-52-10) for a good rootgrow.
here another 3 show plants
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Tim Murphy on February 12, 2008, 10:19:18 AM
Some of my own hellebores in flower:

1. A double flowered form of H. torquatus (soon to be re-classified) from a site in eastern Montenegro.
2. H. vesicarius.
3. H. vesicarius.
4. H. ?; from a site in Croatia which is in an area where classification is at the moment, impossible. I will try to get a better photo of this plant later.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Paul T on February 12, 2008, 11:12:51 AM
Tim,

Great species pics!!

Chris,

I'll remember that in the future.  Mine were thrid growth season last year, but individually potted.  I don't recall the last remaining one come up, so I think they're gone.  I'll keep your advice on the heavier shade for the future if I manage to acquire any more seeds of it.  Given the pics I have seen of it I really HAVE to have it!!  ::)  In the manner of a true Hellebore addict.

Speaking of Hellebore addiction...... your three latest pics are great.  That yellow with the dark star in teh centre is absolutely to die for!!  :o  Beautiful!!
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on February 12, 2008, 04:37:52 PM
Beautiful Hellebores Chris - wish I could have attended the show  :'(

The dark centered one are my favourites as well !

Thanks for showing us !
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Hans A. on February 12, 2008, 04:40:24 PM
 :o :o :o - just breathtaking! Congratulations - wonderful plants!
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Susan Band on February 12, 2008, 04:43:51 PM
 Paul,hope you haven't dumped your seedlings. Tibetanus has strange dieing down habits and sometimes comes up the next year from the roots.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: johngennard on February 12, 2008, 05:38:08 PM
Chris,
When do you pot on your 2yr. old seedlings of H.thibetanus?
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: David Nicholson on February 12, 2008, 07:19:46 PM
Is it possible to get a good daff. yellow garden hybrid please, and where is the best place to try?
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: chris on February 12, 2008, 09:08:50 PM
John, I repot my H.thibetanus at the end of august, the roots of H.thibetanus start earlier than the other plants and you must not damage them.
tree others:
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Maggi Young on February 12, 2008, 09:19:28 PM

Oh, my gosh, they get better! I'm even coming round to the doubles  :o
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Paul T on February 13, 2008, 03:55:13 AM
Chris,

Yet another 3 fantastic hellebores.  Beautiful colours on all counts.

Susan,

I haven't investigated the pot of the remaining (?) one as yet but the others were empty when checked last year.  I know that they only have a 3 month growing period, which was a bit of a relief once I found that out.  I still must try to get some more seed of it to try again, with more shade to see if they do better.  I think I've treated them a bit too much like the orientalis, which can take pretty much anything in the way of conditions (I've even seen them growing out in full sun here in summer, although obviously I don't do that with mine, and DEFINITELY not with the thibetanus.  ;))
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: kaydale on February 13, 2008, 03:56:12 AM
Absolutely beautiful photos, it actually makes me look forward to winter!  :o :o
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Roberto G on February 13, 2008, 07:40:34 AM
Very beautiful pictures Chris!

I will try to post a photo of my double black hellebore, but this is my first time so I am not sure the size will be right.

Roberto
doppio nero
two resized versions of Roberto's pic to show good sizes for Forum....Maggi
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Paul T on February 13, 2008, 09:26:35 AM
Robert,

Beautiful flower, that is for sure.  Very, very impressive.  Generally we try to limit the width to maybe 800 wide, which allows it to be viewed on a screen without having to move across to view the rest of the picture.  Still managed to get a good idea of what your flower was like.... a fine hellebore!!
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: chris on February 13, 2008, 07:25:49 PM
beautiful flower, Roberto.
here the last plants that I showed on the show, the last one is a closer look on the nectaries
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: johngennard on February 13, 2008, 08:24:40 PM
Wonderful flowers Chris,I just would'nt know which to choose out of all that you have recently shown.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Michael J Campbell on February 15, 2008, 08:17:11 PM
A few in bloom today
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Maggi Young on February 15, 2008, 08:23:04 PM
A lovely selection, Michael. Ours are just beginning.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on February 16, 2008, 10:39:58 AM
-5°C last night - ours are flat on the ground !
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Lvandelft on February 16, 2008, 10:44:28 AM
-5°C last night - ours are flat on the ground !
Better them, than you Luc.  ;D ;D
I would stay inside the coming night. :D :D :D
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on February 16, 2008, 10:48:19 AM
Yes, I agree Luit - at least I know they will be upright again this afternoon after some sunshine - seems to keep them fit ! ;)
As for me, I'll definitely stay inside the coming night, - 6°C forecasted.  ;D
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: David Nicholson on February 16, 2008, 05:32:26 PM
Yes, I agree Luit - at least I know they will be upright again this afternoon after some sunshine - seems to keep them fit ! ;)
As for me, I'll definitely stay inside the coming night, - 6°C forecasted.  ;D

It is going to be a cold night here too.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: johanneshoeller on February 17, 2008, 07:01:24 PM
We had a very cold night here, -15°C. Now most plants lie down, even Galanthus. Only Hellbores, Hepatica and Crocus look happy. And the next cold night is coming (19 o'clock: -6°C ).

Hans
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Michael on February 17, 2008, 07:30:20 PM
Hello!

Forgive me but can you explain me why the plants get laid on the ground? Is that because the lack of water due to extreme temperatures and prevents the roots of absorbing it? I am a bit confused... And the plants recover well?

Michael
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: johanneshoeller on February 17, 2008, 07:57:13 PM
The last weeks we had warm weather (+8°C) with cold nights (-4°C), - no problem. But now the nights are too cold for some well grown spring plants and they are not covered with snow.
The most plants will recover although some leaves look like they are dry up (yellow leaves). I hope most of my Androsace will survive becauce they look very ill. And all Primula forrestii (covered) are dead.

Hans
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: ashley on February 17, 2008, 08:16:22 PM
Forgive me but can you explain me why the plants get laid on the ground? Is that because the lack of water due to extreme temperatures and prevents the roots of absorbing it? I am a bit confused... And the plants recover well?

That's right Michael - wilting due to dehydration.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Roberto G on February 20, 2008, 07:25:17 AM
I am posting a couple of images of hellebores flowering in my garden.
The pink anemone centered has only small petaloids but the frilly edges are nice.
The picotee is a nice yellow colour with dark nectaries and good purple edge

Roberto
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: ian mcenery on February 21, 2008, 07:28:47 PM
Here is a double black seedling I have raised producing now its first flower on my allotment after just over 2 years. It will be interesting to see how it develops

Lesley yours should look like this
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on February 21, 2008, 07:29:49 PM
Ian
 :o :o :o
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Maggi Young on February 21, 2008, 07:40:05 PM
A fine double, Ian.... goodness, I AM mellowing with age.... and after only two years, even better! I do like the dark foliage, a good foil for those  chocolatey flowers.... AHA, that's it! There's often a clue......  :-[
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Gerhard Raschun on February 21, 2008, 08:15:54 PM
now in flower :)
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Maggi Young on February 21, 2008, 08:19:11 PM
These are lovely, Gerhard... are the orientale of your own seed raising?  I love the rich reds and dark velvet colours. Hellebores are only getting into flower here this last week.... our season is not like yours!
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Lesley Cox on February 21, 2008, 09:31:57 PM
Oh Ian!!! Was this seedling from the same batch of seed that you sent to me? Mine are doing really well, nice plants now and I expect first flowers this coming winter. Something really special to look forward to.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: ian mcenery on February 21, 2008, 11:05:32 PM
Lesley you are right- hope they do well  ;D
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Hans J on February 24, 2008, 03:06:03 PM
Hi all ,

here are some Helleborus species from my garden today :

H. atrorubens
H. viridis
H. croaticus
H. niger
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Gerdk on February 24, 2008, 04:49:17 PM
Hi Hans,
perhaps your H. atrorubens is croaticus and vice versa  ???
Nice plants altogether!
Gerd
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Hans J on February 24, 2008, 05:00:08 PM
Gerd ,

the plants and the pics are correct named !

this is a serious forum
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Gerdk on February 24, 2008, 05:41:57 PM
Gerd ,
the plants and the pics are correct named !
this is a serious forum

Yes it is - of course  :). But please tell me how do you call my hellebores?  - see flowers and foliage now - January 21th - I never tried to verify the name.
By the way: do you know what a 'helleborosus' is? I assert that I do not point at you  ;D

Gerd
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Maggi Young on February 24, 2008, 05:51:40 PM
Gerd, do you mean this page from January 21st : http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1120.75
I do not see a post from you, only Tim Murphy ????
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Gerdk on February 24, 2008, 08:40:52 PM
Gerd, do you mean this page from January 21st : http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1120.75
I do not see a post from you, only Tim Murphy ????

 :-[Sorry, I meant January 25 th!  http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1120.120

Gerd
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Tim Murphy on February 25, 2008, 11:55:52 AM
Helleborus atrorubens and Helleborus croaticus are distinct species; atrorubens almost always has large bracts (croaticus doesn't), and the emerging foliage of croaticus is pubescent, wherwas the emerging foliage of atrorubens is glabrous.

I'll be seeing Helleborus croaticus (amongst other species) in the wild in a few weeks  :)
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: ian mcenery on February 25, 2008, 11:51:13 PM
A couple in the garden at present.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Paul T on February 27, 2008, 10:01:07 PM
Ian,

Love that neon one, and the double black is to die for!!!  :o

Hans,

Great to see the pics.

Thanks everyone.  8)
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Tim Murphy on February 29, 2008, 05:27:48 PM
Helleborus torquatus is flowering a little earlier than usual here.

1. H. torquatus TM03014, south of Bosanski Petrovac, Bosnia.
2. H. torquatus TM03014, south of Bosanski Petrovac, Bosnia.
3. H. torquatus TM03030, south of Bihac, Bosnia.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Kenneth K on March 15, 2008, 03:06:03 PM
Two unnamed double Helleborus x hybridus, one white and one green.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Tim Murphy on March 21, 2008, 07:14:21 PM
Some more species hellebores flowering at the moment.

1. Helleborus croaticus from a site in Slavonia (northeast Croatia).
2 & 3. Helleborus hercegovinus.
4. A species which does not yet have a name. The plant (grown from wild collected seed) is from a site in Croatia close to a town called Perusic. The plants is this area do not fit into any currently known species and are extremely variable.

I am flying out to Zagreb on Easter Sunday and returning on Thursday via Dubrovnik to see the hellebores flowering in the wild. I will post photos when I return.
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Maggi Young on March 21, 2008, 07:49:03 PM
Great pix of super hellebores, Tim.  The Helleborus hercegovinusfoliage is fantastic. :)


Hope you have a good trip, with good weather! Travel safely! 8)
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Paddy Tobin on March 21, 2008, 07:59:41 PM
Tim,

The first photograph of H. hercegovinus has magnificent foliage, a brilliant plant.

Paddy
Title: Re: Hellebores 2008
Post by: Paul T on March 21, 2008, 08:59:43 PM
Tim,

Magnificent leaves on the hercegovinus.  Just love em!!  8)
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