Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Seedy Subjects! => Seeds Wanted => Topic started by: Mark Griffiths on January 11, 2015, 07:36:41 PM
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hi, I'm looking for a source of Shortia seeds - unfortunately I missed out on those offered in the AGS seed list this year. I've heard that the Goteborg Botanic Garden used to have a seedlist but now it's a web shop and I'm having a problem registering to even see what's in the web shop.
Any other commercial sources people know of?
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I just got a few from the NARGS exchange. Goteborg has a nice group of S. galacifolia growing there, but I've never succeeding in getting any seeds from them over many years. I've grown it from seed in the past, and it's a devil to transplant successfully. I lost 100%, and I'm usually pretty successful with difficult plants. Maybe you should splurge for a few nursery-grown plants and then try to collect the seeds. You may have to hand-pollinate between two different clones, and you will need to be very diligent about collecting before they disperse. I have four plants that I purchased from Bovees Nursery in Portland, Oregon. They are on a raised bed of sandy loam soil where they get about two hours of sun per day. They are OK, but they are not spreading. A very difficult plant.
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Mark the GTB's shop should open wednesday.
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thanks Gene, I've got a couple of plants in pots in a frame, one is S. galacifolia so I'm actually looking for other species / varieties.
Yann, are you able to see the shop without having to register? That's the step I'm having problems with.
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The Goteborg catalogue is now online: https://konnklubb.nordicshops.com/ (https://konnklubb.nordicshops.com/)
I think they had a holding page up whilst it was being updated.
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hi, yes it is. I got an e-mail somehow. I've managed to get through an order with the aid of google translate but it took a while! Glad I posted when I did!
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I managed with considerable difficulty to order some seeds 2 years ago, and even managed to pay. Unfortunately neither the Shortia or Veratrum seed germinated. My fault no doubt as I had expert guidance.
I see from the old emails I was expecting a newsletter but never received anything as far as I can recall.
Tried to log in several times since but never made it. Does your "klubb" membership lapse after a time?
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Brian, I get the feeling the whole thing has been revamped.
Out of interest what was the guidance you were given?
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The advice from Gerben Tjeerdsma, who had given my local AGS group a talk, was to sow on moist pure sphagnum peat and keep covered to ensure a moist atmosphere. He sent me a photo of a 1 year old pot of his covered in seedling leaves although he must have had many more seed than I received. Prick out the second year into peat also. I was planning a house move at the time so may not have kept my eye on the ball sufficiently.
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Brian & Mark - The late & great Shortia guru Steve Doonan sowed his seeds atop 50/50 coarse peat and rather fine granite grit and placed in a plastic bag. The tricky bit was getting them exposed to the great outdoors. I'd punch a few holes in the plastic bag every week until the bag was gone, preferably the end synced with the foggy season. S. galacifolia seed was the most ephemeral, uniflora not quite so and soldanelloides would last a few months in good shape if stored properly.
Steve's Shortia article appeared in NARGS Journal Spring 1993 Vol. 51 N0.2 (what an issue that was!). Do try to lay your hands on it.
johnw
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Brian thanks for that. I was planning something like that - I use the same approach with Ramonda etc.
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and thanks John!
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Mark
If you can't find the article I will dig for it, could take some time.
Steve got his Shortia seed from that amazing plantsman Erik Jespersen in Denmark. I visited Jesper about 10 years ago. I have never seen so many Shortias in one garden, it was amazing and all were meticulously catalogued. I must get those slides scanned. (Must say there were a lot in the Stone's garden!)
johnw
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Here is the NARGS bulletin: https://www.nargs.org/sites/default/files/free-rgq-downloads/VOL_51_NO_2.pdf (https://www.nargs.org/sites/default/files/free-rgq-downloads/VOL_51_NO_2.pdf)
I surface-sowed them on 50% peat and 50% perlite, and germinated them under lights at 55-65F in the house in midwinter. They germinated and grew just fine until I transplanted them. That was the end. This time I will place the transplants under a propagation dome in a cool shady place for a month or two. It might work.
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Gene - Thanks so much.
When I was paying attention to them I'd transplant them from 1" cells if potbound into 2.5" pots. As best as I remember the subsequent mix was coarse peat, granite grit and rotten wood from a rotting pine tree stump. They loved the latter stuff and I top-dressed with it & a bit of well-rotted manure annually. In their heyday they were happy, hard to look at the photos!
How about a bell jar shaded on the south side when planting out?
Just remembered, if I planted them near a peat block they would always run into that and along the peat wall leaving their original site behind.
john
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This has been a helpful thread. :)
I have a year old seedlings of Shortia uniflora, sown last winter from Göteborg seeds. I sowed them on mix of peat and perlite, and kept them in the same mini-greenhouse as I did Rhododendron sowings in room temperature. They germinated well, but I didn't have time to prick them apart (perhaps that was good), and now they are still in the same pot, which is in a frost-free but cool room with light. I'm planning to prick them in the spring and plant them outside in the early summer. I will try the same kind of mix which John recommends, thank you.
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thanks Gene! Downloaded the pdf and will give it a read. Lovely pics John! I didn't have a reasonable camera until recently so my "past glories" are only memories.
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Reading all this I am frustrated all over again that we live in the wrong place to grow these plants! David Sampson was very successful though south of us at Oakdene in Sussex, and Jim and Hedi Hancox used to grow them beautifully in London and exhibit them at Shows. What is brilliant is John's reference to the NARGS Bulletin which fortunately I have on my shelf, so at least I can enjoy reading about them from a real expert (and look at the other articles).
I know Gerben came over to Great Dixter a year or two ago. Would be good to fix up a tour of alpine groups if he can come again...
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Brian & Mark - The late & great Shortia guru Steve Doonan sowed his seeds atop 50/50 coarse peat and rather fine granite grit and placed in a plastic bag. The tricky bit was getting them exposed to the great outdoors. I'd punch a few holes in the plastic bag every week until the bag was gone, preferably the end synced with the foggy season. S. galacifolia seed was the most ephemeral, uniflora not quite so and soldanelloides would last a few months in good shape if stored properly.
Steve's Shortia article appeared in NARGS Journal Spring 1993 Vol. 51 N0.2 (what an issue that was!). Do try to lay your hands on it.
johnw
NARGS has, as the SRGC has with The Rock Garden, , posted it's back catalogue of Bulletins online - so the issue mentioned by John is available to all, here:
https://www.nargs.org/sites/default/files/free-rgq-downloads/VOL_51_NO_2.pdf (https://www.nargs.org/sites/default/files/free-rgq-downloads/VOL_51_NO_2.pdf)
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In the early days I questioned the hardiness of Shortia but later learned that Dr. U. Paim was growing them very successfully near Fredericton, New Brunswick some 4 hours north of here. He told me they flowered reliably even after lows close to -40c with no problem.
As we know the transition is difficult even in my very foggy climate where humidity averages about 70% year round. (ditto Jankaea by the way and surely it doesn't need high humidity)
I suppose it is not surprising where humidity levels are low the S. spp. would be difficult subjects given their provenances.
johnw - -5c & sun, the fluffiest snow fell over night.
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Tim - Glad you enjoyed Steve's article, that Journal was surely one of the best Journals ever to go to print. We were so lucky to have had Steve speak here twice, sadly the last time just months before he died. He was one of the most remarkable plantsman to walk the planet.
The Foster article may be of interest and of course this link is indispensable:
http://www.barnes-botany.co.uk/shortia.html (http://www.barnes-botany.co.uk/shortia.html)
john
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my first attempt was with seed from johnw and I sowed them on pure sterilised peat in a plastic pot which I then kept in a plastic bag. from this I managed a couple of plants.
Since then I have started to put the pot in a clear sealable plastic storage container and have had much better results. The moisture level is easy to control and any results can be seen through the side of the container. If moss starts to grow it can seen and be got off with a needle before it overwhelms the seed/seedlings.After a couple of years I then pricked them out into individual cells using ericaceous compost and have just been able to plant out a couple of dozen into a peat bed.
I also use this method for gesneriad and primula seed.
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Tony, do you mean like a propagator? That's what I was going to use as it worked well with Ramondas. I've been keeping them in there for a year or so before they toughen up a bit.
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here are a couple of pictures. The large container is one we purchased but the rest are those that contained ready made soup which I eat when away at the weekend.
Of those shown all but one have a Chinese clematis in them (I am raising it from seed and it grows in humid conditions) and the other has Corralodiscus kingianus seed from Bjornar in it
These are on a bedroom windowsill but I have others in the greenhouse.
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I think those are the same containers I've bought curry sauce in. Now I can't stop thinking about curry.
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For Shortias I'd be tempted to pack live green sphagnum around the pots in the jars. How is light transmission? One imperative & tedious task was clipping the mosses which invariably sprouted stop the peat, they can easily swamp the seedlings. This was required almost weekly and a steady hand and hand lens.
Masaman curry? Now I can't stop thinking about it...........
johnw
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Light transmission seems no different to a plastic propagator lid. The benefit is if the sterilisation has worked watering, moss and liverwort are eliminated as the pots are sealed.
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I received Shortia galacifolia in my Nargs seed that arrived today, so I can try again to use my own instructions.
Even more difficult is I also received Monotropa uniflora seed. Now this is a challenge. It needs a fungus and another plant to survive. Wondered if Rootgrow had anything useful in it to help. I have emailed them.
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Good luck with the Monotropa- I wonder if a Rhododendron might contain any of the right "bugs" ?
http://botit.botany.wisc.edu/toms_fungi/oct2002.html (http://botit.botany.wisc.edu/toms_fungi/oct2002.html)
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That or pine / spruce duff. That's where we see them growing in the wild here.
johnw
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Johan Nilson, of the Gothenburg Botanical Garden (friend of Gerben Tjeerdsma , Peter Korn et al!) suggests that the best results can be gained by sowing direct onto the large soft Swedish peat blocks that are used in the G.B. B. - and for sure Shortia and Schizocodon grow like weeds there!
Johan will be one of the Speakers at the SRGC Discussion Weekend in October. 8)