Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: Alan_b on January 28, 2008, 09:23:36 AM
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This year Monksilver Nursery are offering a new snowdrop named 'Green Light'. The description reads "a nivalis with bright shining green leaves and green-tipped outer petals". Joe tells me this is a snowdrop I discovered growing 'wild' in 2004 and drew to his attention. We both have bulbs that were side-by-side when we collected them so it is a fair assumption they are clones. A number of people have asked me what 'Green Light' looks like so here are some pictures I managed to take yesterday in my garden when the sun was shining. You'll have to excuse the specks of dirt evident in the close-up. I have a couple of bulbs in another location so what you see is about two thirds of my entire stock.
I make no claims to photographic expertise. The first shot shows 'Green Light' in my experimental raised bed. In the second shot I zoom out so you can see how the green of the leaves contrasts with the glaucous green of the snowdrops that surround it. In the final shot I zoom in.
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That's a nice snowdrop that holds it's head very well
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Looks very nice. :)
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If you'd have posted that pic without any species mentioned, I would have placed it as an ikariae by it's appearance, both in flower proportion and leaves. Looks very much like the ikariae we grow here in Australia (not sure whether all ikariae are created equal or not, which is why I specify Australia) which don't of course have green tips. Nice plant you have there.
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It was found it a wood where all the other snowdrops (except for a clump of elwesii by a house at the entrance ~1 km away) appear to be nivalis. The vernation is certainly applenate like nivalis. The leaves are a similar width. Otherwise I cannot vouch for its nivalis credentials but I assume Joe Sharman, who has classified it a G. nivalis, knows his stuff.
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Looking closer the leaves aren't broad enough really, nor quite the right shape, but the green is pretty right, and the flower shape etc. It is close enough to be a bit freaky!! ;D
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That's why galanthophiles have muddy knees, but I suspect this one distinctive enough to attract attention from afar?
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This is my first sighting in January 2004. You can see it stands out; but this is considerably aided by the fact that it also flowers a few weeks early than most of the surrounding snowdrops.
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Hi Alan
that photo of it in the wild, showing it compared to the others, really shows it off a treat. A very distinctive plant indeed. Very nice.
thanks
John
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Even in your 'at home' shot, we can see the bright shiny green of the foliage. In the natural shot the contrast between the foliage types is lovely.
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This must be like finding buried treasure Alan? The photo looks like there is a beam of sunlight hitting the patch of green (accomanied by some Mantovani) drawing you to it like a magnet. I think if I made such a discovery I'd need to lie down in a darkened room for a while.
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My first reaction on finding a green-leaved snowdrop growing in a wood was disbelief. I thought maybe they had been under some leaves and the colour would not last, so I went back a week later to take another look and took this (out of focus) photograph. It was not until I got home and saw the photograph blown up on my computer monitor that I noticed the green marks on the outer petals! Score 1/10 for observation. But I got really excited because I knew this snowdrop was not just another 'Anglesey Abbey' but had a feature that made it unique.
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Very nice Alan, you should be promoted from Junior member immediately :D
Is it just my poor old eyes, your particular photo or does it have quite a large ovary?
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Very nice Alan, you should be promoted from Junior member immediately
These epithets : newbie, junior senior, hero etc are merely devices used by the forum software to designate the number of posts made by a person ::)
Thus, were Linnaeus himself to join this Forum, he would remain a newbie till he made a goodly number of posts, regardless of his doubtless excellent personal qualities and knowledge!
So, no offence meant, Alan, or to your champion, Brian, but "junior" you remain!! :o
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Judging by the source of interesting drops Alan has he'll soon make another 13 postings. 8)
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Thank you anyway, Brian. I have actually only just made it from 'newbie' to 'junior'!!
I have another green-leaved green-tipped form, found nearby, that has an elongated ovary compared to 'Green Light'. Maybe in 'Green Light' the ovary is still a little long or maybe this is my imagination. I will leave this to the experts on the forum to determine.
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By Jove, Anthony, I'm hoping Alan'll make another 13000 postings! 8)
..... though he needn't feel he has to get them all done by next Thursday ::) :-[ :-X
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the ovary is still a little long
Good grief! You mean to say there is an optimum length for snowdrop ovaries? ??? What next? :-\
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Good grief! You mean to say there is an optimum length for snowdrop ovaries?
Just see what you are missing out on Maggie ;D
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Yes the ovary looks slightly long but they are so varied. I'll look for examples when I get home
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Brian, I assure you, if you were female then the thought of an ovarian measuring discussion would curl more than your hair!
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thought of an ovarian measuring discussion would curl more than your hair!
Maggi if I were female I might have some to curl ;)
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thought of an ovarian measuring discussion would curl more than your hair!
Maggi if I were female I might have some to curl ;)
I'm with you Brian.
..... though he needn't feel he has to get them all done by next Thursday ::) :-[ :-X
Should be done by Friday? ;)
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Well as one more post to add to my total, I might as well finish the story and explain how Joe Sharman of Monksilver Nursery became involved.
At the time of my discovery, I was not at all confident of my ability to identify snowdrops so I wanted a second opinion from a snowdrop expert. I also wanted permission to collect some of these interesting snowdrops before somebody decided to light a bonfire on top of them or otherwise imperil them. I contacted Joe Sharman and he was able to use his local contacts to get the necessary permission so, one day in February 2004, I and he (and a friend of his who was visiting) met together in the wood where they grew. Joe and his friend set to work and in the space of about half an hour they found eight (!) other snowdrops with some interesting feature in the same locality. It was quite awe-inspiring to see how good they were at doing this, compared to my meagre abilities. Amongst these there were two more clones with the same feature of green leaves and green-tipped outer petals. We took a few specimens of each type and divided them amongst the three of us.
After trialling the three green-leaved, green-tipped clones, Joe selected the one he thought was the best and it turned out to be the one I originally discovered, which he has named 'Green Light'. I hope this story will give heart to other snowdrop beginners by showing that it is possible to find a snowdrop that is worthy of cultivation.
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Hi Alan,
as I was reading your account, there was a moving film on telly with suitably tear jerking music. I found your story of discovery was almost hollywood standard with the background piano accompaniment.
Thank you, very interesting, nice to know the story behind a snowdrop discovery and especailly when it is one of 'our family' that found a £40 each 'drop! I will be searching my local woods this weekend.
Maggie - I know he can't move from Jnr instanly - but I join with Brian on the campaign trail. How about a personal monika ('finder of the light'?).
regards
John
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'tis done :-*
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'tis done
You are incomparable (I think that's how I spell it)
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Just call me FAB, Brian, it's easier... and I like it!
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By the way, Brian, don't you agree my modesty is one of my most endearing features??? :P
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It used to be my only fault Maggi. ::)
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It used to be my only fault Maggi.
Ian clams that, too :P Says he used to be modest but now he's perfect........ 8)
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I think these stories about the origins of a particular snowdrop add to its charm. Let's have more.
It used to be my only fault Maggi.
Ian clams that, too :P Says he used to be modest but now he's perfect........ 8)
I think that Ian is still too modest.
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I think these stories about the origins of a particular snowdrop add to its charm. Let's have more.
I agree, hearing tales of the provenance of any plant is interesting. I was taken with the news ( aokay, so it was probably only news to ME) that the quaintly named Galanthus 'Diggory' was named for someone late son.... just went off to search and check that... cannot find it... do I remember this correctly?
Anyway, I like plant histories, that's the point!
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I'll mention some yellow snowdrops I found in this thread - excuse me, Alan. I was out one day and decided to call at a farm that has a drive full of snowdrops. I used to pass it every day while at work. I called in and asked if I could look. I soon spotted a group of yellows among the thousands. I asked for some and was told to take as many as I wanted. I dashed 20 miles to Margaret Glynn's extremely excited. The following year they came back green and although the group are still in her garden no yellow have appeared again. Some of my 'Mark's Tall' came up yellow a few years ago causing a lot of excitement but they came back green again the following year
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I think these stories about the origins of a particular snowdrop add to its charm. Let's have more.
I agree, hearing tales of the provenance of any plant is interesting. I was taken with the news ( aokay, so it was probably only news to ME) that the quaintly named Galanthus 'Diggory' was named for someone late son.... just went off to search and check that... cannot find it... do I remember this correctly?
Anyway, I like plant histories, that's the point!
Quote from the snowdrop book
"It has become the snowdrop to grow; a fitting tribute to Diggory Birtles, Rosie Steels late son."
You remembered correctly Maggi.
John
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It's not one I've seen, but certainly I'll look out for, but perhaps next year?
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Anthony you will have to make a note in your diary for next February and fly down for the Gala or the East Lambrook Manor event
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You cannot be serious Mark. ::) Once I got there I'd have no money to spend. :(
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Good ole Easyjet comes to mind. £54, and will probably come down in price, to fly down for the AGS bulb sale in August. If a few come down together the car hire is cheap
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What's the date?
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Hopefully we can arrange to meet all those who live in and around the East Anglia area. It's always The 3rd Sunday in August but this year it's been put back one. It starts at 2pm. We're getting side tracked badly on this thread so maybe I should start a new one for the bulb sale
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Hopefully we can arrange to meet all those who live in and around the East Anglia area. It's always The 3rd Sunday in August but this year it's been put back one. It starts at 2pm. We're getting side tracked badly on this thread so maybe I should start a new one for the bulb sale
19th? The weekend before school starts. :'(
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19th is a Tuesday! Sunday 24th is the day
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I was close. No chance of going then as it is after school has started. :(
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I'm in East Anglia and have no plans (as yet) for 24th August. Where is the venue? Do I actually have to be in the AGS to attend?
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Back to the original topic, this snowdrop is, I presume, a close relative of 'Green Light'. I found it close to where 'Green Light' was found, a year later (2005). The green leaves are very similar, possibly a shade darker. It has similar green marks on the outer petals. The flowers are smaller (at least they are this year) and the ovary is more elongated. It flowers a week or two later ('Green Light' is early). It is a good vigorous snowdrop and the little clump I photographed derives from natural division of two of the four bulbs I collected in 2005. It quite often produces a second scape and the second flower often emerges already out of its spathe.
I have fancifully nicknamed this snowdrop 'Green Arrow' because the green mark on the outer petals sometimes resembles the head of an arrow and because I used to collect American comic books as a teenager ('Green Arrow' is the name of a comic-book superhero).
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'Green Arrow' is a fitting name. Certainly to the point. I must take a walk round the snowdrop woods round Dunblane. I'm waiting for all Martin's hybrids to hit the airwaves, perhaps with names like 'Little Plum' and 'Minnie the Minx'? ;)
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Who mentioned ovary shape earlier this week? That is some ovary on those snowdrops
Alan no you dont need to be a member of the AGS
Anthony you dont teach on a Sunday do you?
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8 hour drive.
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one hour by 'plane!
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And then what?
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I have fancifully nicknamed this snowdrop 'Green Arrow'
Alan, I am afraid that you will have to think of another name, in order to avoid confusion, as there is already a snowdrop called g. 'Green Arrow'.
g. 'Green Arrow' was first mentioned by Matt Bishop in, I think, 2002 and Avon Bulbs are selling it, described as "A strange late form with wonderful green marked flowers held at an angle, from an old Somerset orchard".
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Oh dear. You seem absolutely sure but can I ask you for your source? I have the first edition of 'Snowdrops' published in 2001. Is 'Green Arrow' in the second edition? I cannot find any reference on the Avon Bulbs web site or using Google to search the internet. My emergency reserve back-up name would be 'Green Lantern'. Is that one taken???
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Alan,
I have a snowdrop named 'Green Lantern'
Paddy
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I want it! ;D Sorry. Just been out to a fabulous local restaurant (The Sheriffmuir Inn) and have had some Trinidad Puncheon Rum (75% alcohol) so I agree to anything, but honestly, if it sounds good, I want it. I really have been overwhelmed with new snowdrops this season. (Pauses to look at Sneaky the gecko.) Ma heid's loupin' Hey ho!
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Alan there is a plicatus called Green Lantern
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Alan there is a plicatus called Green Lantern
Ruddy heck! All the good names are taken already!!! Does anybody have the Avon Bulbs list and/or the second edition of 'Snowdrops' to confirm that 'Green Arrow' is taken (and why is everybody up so late/early and on their computers)? Scraping the bottom of the barrel in the fictional green hero genre, I have come up with 'Green Hornet'. DONT tell me that one is already in use!
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Oh dear. You seem absolutely sure but can I ask you for your source? I have the first edition of 'Snowdrops' published in 2001. Is 'Green Arrow' in the second edition? I cannot find any reference on the Avon Bulbs web site or using Google to search the internet. My emergency reserve back-up name would be 'Green Lantern'. Is that one taken???
I maintain a Database of snowdrops that are NOT mentioned in the 'Snowdrops' book, which currently contains the names of about 350 snowdrops.
Angela Whinfield told me last April that g. 'Green Arrow' was one of several new and interesting forms mentioned in a talk given by Matt Bishop, about 5 years ago. The description that I gave was from the label of a bulb supplied to me by Avon Bulbs.
As Paddy has already mentioned, I am afraid that your reserve name of 'Green Lantern' is also already taken.
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Chris, is your Database only privat, or a little bit public for galanthophiles. I mean too much cultivars, that is one part. The other is the double-naming. "GREEN ARROW" could be such example.
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I am of the opinion that there are already too many named cultivars. But the procedure to register a name with the Dutch authorities seems to be aimed squarely at the large-scale commercial grower so most named snowdrops are 'unofficial', I imagine.
I chose 'Green Arrow' as a nickname rather than as an attempt to give it an official name. It might be better described as 'Green Light group 2005' but that is a bit of a mouthful. It makes for a nice little curiosity amongst my snowdrops and its vigour bodes well for anyone looking for a seed-parent to breed new snowdrops. It is only slightly different to 'Green Light' and neither has been in cultivation long enough to say which is the better.
I guess I had better try to confirm with Avon Bulbs that they are still using the name 'Green Arrow'. Any more problems like this and I am going over to the dark side and nicknaming it 'Green Goblin'.
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Wandlebury Green??
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Wandlebury Green??
But it did not come from Wandlebury! In order to protect the land owner from hoards of crazed galanthophiles, I have never revealed exactly where it came from.
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"Camberwick Green"? ???
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I think that trumps all the others. ;D The other one could be Greendale? ::)
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Chris, is your Database only privat, or a little bit public for galanthophiles. I mean too much cultivars, that is one part. The other is the double-naming. "GREEN ARROW" could be such example.
Hagen - I am happy to do look ups, if people want to check whether or not a name has already been used
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How about Alan Adale is that right Robin Hood Fans?
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I guess I had better try to confirm with Avon Bulbs that they are still using the name 'Green Arrow'.
Be careful - the whole point is that once a name has been used it cannot then be re-used again for a different plant just because a Nursery is no longer selling that plant, or because the original plant is thought to be extinct - too much risk of two different plants, in this case two snowdrops, circulating under the same name - so checking with Avon Bulbs whether they are still using the name does not really help.
In any case, as per my original posting, "Avon Bulbs are selling it" - I know because I bought a bulb of g. 'Green Arrow' from them last week.
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In any case, as per my original posting, "Avon Bulbs are selling it" - I know because I bought a bulb of g. 'Green Arrow' from them last week.
Sorry I miunderstood the chronology of your original post. I think for the present I will stick to the non-name of 'Green Light Group (2005)'. With your database you must be the de facto authority on snowdrop names!
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Alan,
I saw 'Green Arrow' growing at Anglesey Abbey earlier today. I took a photograph and can post it on this thread should you want me to?
David
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Sorry David, what you saw was the snowdrop I had hoped to name 'Green Arrow' but which lacks a name for the present. It is top right on the far bank.
I gave some to Anglesey Abbey last Friday and have not yet been back to confess to my naming mistake. What did you think of it? How did you get to see it on a day that Anglesey Abbey is normally closed to the public?
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To find a name I suggest you go through Plant Finder. There are some good names in there
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Sorry David, what you saw was the snowdrop I had hoped to name 'Green Arrow' but which lacks a name for the present. It is top right on the far bank.
I gave some to Anglesey Abbey last Friday and have not yet been back to confess to my naming mistake. What did you think of it? How did you get to see it on a day that Anglesey Abbey is normally closed to the public?
Alan,
That makes sense now. You are correct with the positioning and soon as I saw it I thought of you and hence me taking a photograph.
I was at a private viewing at Anglesey Abbey. I had been 3 weeks ago and it was good to see some new varieties out. I didn't get much chance to view it up close but from what I saw it looked very nice. The green tips are very subtle but still visible from the bottom of the bank. I'll have a closer look at my photographs later this evening and let you know my thoughts on Wednesday.
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Hi Alan,
green leaves without an end. Today I stumled about these plants.
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A few weeks ago I toyed with the idea of naming a snowdrop I had found "Green Arrow", only to be told that the name had already been taken! It turns out that "Green Arrow" is another find from the garden of Sally Pasmore, offered for sale by Avon Bulbs. I was lucky enough to come across a specimen in a snowdrop-collectors garden and here it is. It is a very fine snowdrop, well worthy of the name.