Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: Alan_b on November 01, 2014, 04:42:49 PM
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That's the name of a publication that arrived unexpectedly in the mail this morning. It describes itself thus:
An occasional publication featuring photographs, descriptions and articles on snowdrops and other plants, new and perhaps not so new.
It was produced by Joe Sharman and the date printed on my copy is Saturday 1 November 2014. There was nothing included to indicate why I got a copy or how widely it is to be distributed; I'm sure any galanthophile would like to read it.
There is an interesting article on the history of the term 'poculiform' followed by a strong endorsement of the term 'pterugiform' (see http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12115.msg310666#msg310666 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12115.msg310666#msg310666) and the discussion that followed for our own take on this controversy). No guidance on pronunciation, unfortunately, except that pter- refers to feathers so is presumably pronounced as in 'pterodactyl'.
There are also some excellent colour photographs of 'new' eranthis, galanthus and leucojum cultivars although some (but not all) of these have already been 'leaked' by Mark Smyth (see http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12390.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12390.0) ).
Edit: This subsequently proved to be just the first volume.
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I wonder how many people are going to get a copy ? Nothing in my post box except a flyer for pizza :-X don't eat cheese or tomatoes
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I think there should be a cover charge for it even if it only covered printing costs and postage
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I agree, Mark. 12 A4 sides of printed content, 9 of which have colour photographs, plus the cover; that's going to cost something to print. Although it is very good publicity for plants that I presume Joe will be selling sooner or later - certainly whetted my appetite.
I did, out-of-the-blue, have a phone call from Joe a month or so ago where we briefly discussed something that I now find is part of the content so perhaps that is why he was kind enough to send me a copy. But he did not mention this intended publication at that time.
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I think there should be a cover charge for it even if it only covered printing costs and postage
There already is, it's in the added margin on his selling price . He's a businessman not a philanthropist.
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That's a point I made in my previous post, David, albeit not quite as bluntly.
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mail from monksilver nursery:
Joe's new magazine was really only sent out as a trial run, it will be offered for sale via the monksilver website very soon.
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Na dann warten wir mal....hoffnungsvoll :) :) :)
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...and hopefully you will get one as mine arrived this morning. ;D
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Anyone fancy sending me a scan?????????????????????
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Anyone fancy sending me a scan?????????????????????
I was about to ask the same question myself, Chas!
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My printer is broken
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Could you photograph the pages, Mark and email them ?
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yes, tomorrow in daylight
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yes, tomorrow in daylight
Thanks!!
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But my copy of The 'Drop Out says:
Images and text are copyright Joe Sharman and should not be reproduced without permission.
I would have thought that would include a scanned or photographed copy. If Uwe is correct and the intention is to offer it for sale then we should not be distributing scanned copies (nor asking for them) any more than we should do with books or magazines. Even if this one is a free trial copy, surely Joe should be consulted for permission?
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I've got a copy ;D
It does say do not reproduce copies without permission
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But Alan if we have not even seen a copy how are we to know not to ask for a copy???????????????????????
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But Alan if we have not even seen a copy how are we to know not to ask for a copy???????????????????????
A rather clever point, Chas!
Chas and I were asking for a private copy to be shown to us. We are not asking for the copy to be shown here ( nor should it be without Joe's permission) nor for any public or commercial use to be made of the item.
If future "issues" are to be printed then I assume that Chas, like myself, is interested to know whether or not we might wish to order them.
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I've always wanted the index from the second edition of 'Snowdrops', the one where all the names are in full alphabetical order rather then ordered by species and then alphabetically. Are we saying if I asked somebody to photocopy that for me it would not be infringing the copyright? Because then I would not need to buy the book so that could be £60 not going to Griffin Press and thence (in part) to Messrs. Bishop, Davis and Grimshaw. But then I didn't buy the second edition and have no intention of doing so because I have the first edition and don't want to pay £60 just for the benefit of a better index.
I never asked because hitherto I assumed I would be asking the donor to infringe the copyright.
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If you look at the letter of the law, even private copies are prohibited, else we could all look at "private copies" of pirated films or books without that being a crime.
And Chas, you can know there are copies of something without having seen them, I know there are copies of "Fifty shades of Grey" without ever having seen one.
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But until Alans post, no one on here, I would guess,would even know that it was copywritten.Not as with the monograph which would as a large book would have copyright
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I've always wanted the index from the second edition of 'Snowdrops', the one where all the names are in full alphabetical order rather then ordered by species and then alphabetically.the benefit of a better index.
I never asked because hitherto I assumed I would be asking the donor to infringe the copyright.
I thought it was just me that thought the species sequence was rather pointless. You could borrow the book and make your own copy. The RHS library loan books but not through Hyde Hall I think, so postage would be costly. (assuming RHS membership) Maybe some nice member will send you a copy now, without you asking.
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But until Alans post, no one on here, I would guess,would even know that it was copywritten.Not as with the monograph which would as a large book would have copyright
All originally created content is automatically copyrighted....the © is just for show. Under the "Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works" the creation of the work automatically establishes copyright.
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But my copy of The 'Drop Out says:
I would have thought that would include a scanned or photographed copy. If Uwe is correct and the intention is to offer it for sale then we should not be distributing scanned copies (nor asking for them) any more than we should do with books or magazines. Even if this one is a free trial copy, surely Joe should be consulted for permission?
Yes, and Mark is in full contact with Joe and so in a position to ask him. If the idea is to have a free trial copy to tempt the purchase of future copies, then it is likely that the idea is to spread the word. Copyright is basically to prevent the re-use or re-sale of another person's intellectual property for unfair commercial gain or to circumvent the earnings of the copyright holder. No such intention is meant here.
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I'll ask if I can show a page or two
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I'll ask if I can show a page or two
I had imagined you would be asking Joe if you could share with the likes of Chas and myself, Mark - there is no worry if he doesn't want that or want it shown here. We are,after all, only trying to help with publicity. If it's not wanted, that's fine.
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I too thought Mark would ask Joe before distributing any copies; it's common courtesy irrespective of the legal position. But I also thought it best that this was made explicit.
And really I was trying to hint that Griffin Press could extract a pound or two from me for a copy of the amendments that went into the second edition of 'Snowdrops' if they wanted to take that business opportunity.
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And really I was trying to hint that Griffin Press could extract a pound or two from me for a copy of the amendments that went into the second edition of 'Snowdrops' if they wanted to take that business opportunity.
:) 8) cool idea!
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That is the best solution, I'm sure Joe won't mind to publish a couple of pages or even to share with people. The point I was trying to make, was about respect for the owner of the copyright, it's just as nice to ask for permission.
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Received my copy today and it is an interesting booklet, such a shame it's mostly about Galanthus...would have been so much nicer with a lot more Eranthis and Leucojum ;) ;) ;D ;D :P :P
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Great to see the yellow 'Trym' seedling is now named 'Golden Fleece'
One of the gracilis x 'Trym' in the swarm of seedlings in Veronica Cross' garden is now named 'Veronica Cross'
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Lovely photos, Mark .
Why are you busy here today? On your birthday you should be out having Cake!!
Many happy returns of the day! :-*
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Got the second issue of the drop out today ;D there is. Picture of the pumpot x blonde Inge in it named 'Golden Chalice '
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Lovely photos, Mark .
Why are you busy here today? On your birthday you should be out having Cake!!
Many happy returns of the day! :-*
Pity I had to remove Golden Chalice - I was over excited on my birthday LOL
Went out for lunch then tucked in to bat man cake
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Picture of the pumpot x blonde Inge in it named 'Golden Chalice '
That will cause major white fever when the first are released for sale
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Maybe the person who owns the photo will post it
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Maybe the person who owns the photo will post it
We can hope so , pretty please :-*
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Just as I had almost got over the surprise of this publication arriving, I get a second one! Not the same one again, you understand, but VOLUME 2 (this one dated Saturday 8th November 2014). More on 'pocs' and 'terries' including an answer to my question on pronunciation, no less! And more beautiful colour photographs. By the way, I think I'm getting them first because of my proximity to their point of origin.
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Just as I had almost got over the surprise of this publication arriving, I get a second one! Not the same one again, you understand, but VOLUME 2 (this one dated Saturday 8th November 2014). More on 'pocs' and 'terries' including an answer to my question on pronunciation, no less! And more beautiful colour photographs. By the way, I think I'm getting them first because of my proximity to their point of origin.
I received volume 2 yesterday also...quite an interesting booklet!
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Would you like a copy of the 'Drop Out? There will be a charge which has to be finalised.
Email your name, address and post code to me at markATmarksgardenplants.com replacing AT with @ and subject line 'Drop Out
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Only 7 people so far ???
Can I assume everyone is getting it or doesn't want it?
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What do those of us who have already got it do ?
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Shh, Emma, I was hoping we would keep getting them for free!
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I'd feel guilty but could live with that
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Hi Mark,
I wonder if the line ''There will be a charge which has to be finalised'' will have dissuaded some people from registering an interest!
Tim DH
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What do those of us who have already got it do ?
nuffink?
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Possibly Tim. I know how much it costs to print and mail, envelope and postage, and I don't think any business large or small would give them away.
I know others will say Joe makes enough money but he has to make enough money in three months to see him through the other 9
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Just a thought ... if you still want to receive copies can you email your addresses please
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I don't know if everyone got this but my Volume 2 had a loose flyer called 'Don't delay, get your 'drop out today' which was an offer to publish (for free) the name (and information on) new snowdrops.
As you may be aware, the 'rules' on naming precedence are stuck in the dark ages and do not recognise publications on websites or forums. So despite the fact that the vast majority of this forum is in the public domain and can be read from anywhere on the internet, publication here does not count. Whereas a printed publication that is published privately and sent to, I would guess, less than 100 people does count, provided the British Library, or some other recognised repository, also gets a copy.
Little rant aside, I thought I would 'help out' by sending in details of one of mine; 'Cutie-Pie'. This is a nivalis that is perfect example of a pterugiform/inverse poculiform/Olli snowdrop; I just hope my photos were good enough. Maybe I'll make volume 3 or 4? If it passes muster, that is, as the plant has to be 'new, distinct and stable (within limits)'.
I wonder if the line ''There will be a charge which has to be finalised'' will have dissuaded some people from registering an interest!
I see what you mean, Tim, but I cannot imagine you will be sent a copy then sent the bill. As you say, it's surely just 'registering an interest' which you don't have to pursue if you find the eventual price too high.
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I don't know if everyone got this but my Volume 2 had a loose flyer called 'Don't delay, get your 'drop out today' which was an offer to publish (for free) the name (and information on) new snowdrops.
Mine certainly did too.
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I don't know if everyone got this but my Volume 2 had a loose flyer called 'Don't delay, get your 'drop out today' which was an offer to publish (for free) the name (and information on) new snowdrops.
As you may be aware, the 'rules' on naming precedence are stuck in the dark ages and do not recognise publications on websites or forums. So despite the fact that the vast majority of this forum is in the public domain and can be read from anywhere on the internet, publication here does not count.
Just to clarify :
Publication, albeit online, in a recognised journal such as the International Rock Gardener of, for instance a new species (or which the regulations are, I think, even more strict than for a cultivar name) is indeed sufficient for that name to be formalised and recognised. In this respect, Janis Ruksans has published both new species and species name revisions in the IRG . The IRG is fully registered for all the "official" lodging of publication - it is registered as ISSN 2053 -7557
I am happy to express thanks to Joe Sharman for his kind donation to the SRGC 8)
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Am I the only one feeling a little left out?? ??? ;)
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Left out of what Mike?
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Can I say the 'Drop Out isn't just for forum members but you lurkers also
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Hi Mark,
Thanks for the reply…
Maybe it’s the ‘Northerner’ in me, but I’m cautious about expressing an interest in an item of unknown size, price and frequency! I note ‘Drop Out’ has got to Vol2 already..
Perhaps I’ll hang on to my pennies until Snowdrop2 appears!! In the long run it may cost less than a complete set of Drop Outs!!! AND given its gestation period, it would appear that Snowdrop2 will not be superseded in my lifetime!!!!!
Tim DH
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Reading that some forum members have been picked to receive a delicious sounding booklet about snowdrops Mark. :)
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Only 2 or 3 as far as I can tell. Others may be just keeping quiet
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8)
Reading that some forum members have been picked to receive a delicious sounding booklet about snowdrops Mark. :)
;D
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Showoff >:( ;D
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Showoff >:( ;D
:-*
I think the booklet is a nice idea
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Re: alphabetical snowdrop idex.
Having looked in the snowdrop book today at the AGS agm and seen the index, it occurred to me that a scan into a pdf document, then a convertion to Excel it would be fairly easy to resort to whatever sequence you want. Some of these convertions work better than others but worth trying. The better the original print the better they work, and good original layout helps of course. You may have to tweak it a bit, or a lot maybe.
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Was Martin Sheaders's talk at the AGM good? I do enjoy his presentations.
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Yes Maggi, a very good talk, with lots of plants many of us have never seen or were likely to. But so many of the plants seemed to be cushions with glorious but apparently tiny flowers it was diificult to appreciate how many might be seen outside of their habitat.
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:-* You too Emma :)
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You can now buy the 'Drop Out' online
http://shop.callianthus.co.uk/epages/es446091.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es446091/Categories/The_drop_Out (http://shop.callianthus.co.uk/epages/es446091.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es446091/Categories/The_drop_Out)
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Dear Mark,
I have send you a message earlier, that I would like to receive The 'Drop Out editions. Is this still the way? Or do I have to order them through Joe's website now?
S
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I would order via the web site
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£7 per copy (including P&P) is more than I would have expected. But I'm doubly grateful to have been sent free copies of the first two. Has Issue 3 actually been issued yet?
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I haven't seen issue 3. I was supposed to send him photos for it
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I haven't seen issue 3. I was supposed to send him photos for it
But didn't? Perhaps it's waiting on you, Mark?
Has that web site been around long; it's completely new to me?
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That web site has been about for a year or maybe just over. His plants are very good
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Issue 3 is available now
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Thank you Mark for keeping us so well informed about the 'Drop Out story.
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Thank you Mark for keeping us so well informed about the 'Drop Out story.
Thanks
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Anyone received Issue 3 yet? I ordered it ten days ago and I know our post is slow....
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I have a suspicion that Issue 3 was made available to order prior to its actual publication. But maybe somebody else can tell us to the contrary.
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never got it
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I've ordered it , but it's not here :'( :-\
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And I was looking forward to reading it at the weekend too , hey ho :-\
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I ordered all three issues, last week. Nothing here yet also. Maybe they collect all orders and then get the printing in working.
Looking forward to them and see what all news is....... ;)
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The answer from Oliver:
Dear Uwe,
The drop out will be posted very soon. Joe has to make a few adjustments to issue 3.
I will let you know as soon as it is posted.
Thanks
Oliver
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Thank you Uwe, so we all have to wait a little longer. No need to keep a watch on the mailbox... :(
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Today I received Drop Out , Volume 1 and Volume 2 . Unfortunately, there is Volume 3 still under construction.
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to make it better and better....... ;)
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Hagen, for you is reserved volume 4 and 5 and 6 and.... ;)
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Oh, Hagen could produce 'Snowdrops Weekly' all by himself if he wanted to.
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Oh, Hagen could produce 'Snowdrops Weekly' all by himself if he wanted to.
Or Hagen could be writing for the worldwide audience of the International Rock Gardener, if he wanted.....
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How many pages are there in one volume of Drop Out?
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There is an introductory page followed by 11 pages of content in both of the first two editions.
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Thank you Alan. :)
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A very happy New Year to all.
Has anyone received issue 3 of The 'drop Out yet?
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Not yet but I shouldn't think we'll have long to wait....
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Thank you, Brian. Meanwhile the new catalogues are arriving so there's plenty to fantasise over.