Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => NARCISSUS => Topic started by: fermi de Sousa on September 01, 2014, 03:07:03 AM
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First flowering on a little Narcissus hybrid I received from Jon B as "jonquilla hybrid" and it appears to be a little N. triandrus x N. jonquilla - is it 'Hawera'? A lot earlier than my clump in the garden,
cheers
fermi
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Here's what I have as 'Hawera' Fermi. The jonquilla x triandrus parentage would be correct. Looks very similar. The only difference I can see is that in your plant the rim of the corona is more finely crenulate than my plant, in which the rim is shallowly 6-lobed.
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Daffseek says for 'Hawera': "rim broadly and obscurely crenate" with most of the pictures clearly showing the 6-lobed rim similar to mine.
The similar 'April Tears' has: "rim entire or occasionally notched. Resembles 'Hawera' but with broader perianth segments."
I'm not sure that you perianth segments are broad enough to be 'April Tears', being closer to 'Hawera'?
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Thanks, Matt,
I think 'Hawera' is the more likely answer - it's been around longer as well.
Here's a couple of "non mini" Narc. cyclamineus hybrids,
'Rapture'
'Leslie Patrick'
cheers
fermi
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Anyone tell me why my hoop petticoats open on such short stems? This is Narcissus cantabricus, but N. bulbocodium nivalis did the same on all three of its flowers this year.
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Many of us would wish we had the same problem!
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;D ;D ;D
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We put some entries in the Daffodil Section of the Kyneton Horticultural Society's Spring Show, so took some pics before the judges got underway.
A look down one of the aisles
bench - including N.cyclamineus hybrids
bench - including N.bulbocodium hybrids
Narcissus (bulbocodium ssp) citrinus
Narcissus (bulbocodium ssp) obesus
cheers
fermi
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More from Kyneton,
a mixed bunch
'Fencourt Jewel' a pink cupped tazetta!
Narcissus 'Back Flip' x2
Hopefully we'll get some pics from FCHS tomorrow!
cheers
fermi
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What a great name for a Div 6!
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What a great name for a Div 6!
Another one of Rod Barwick's apparently! I don't remember seeing it on his list - must check next year!
here are a few in our garden,
Apodanthe hybrid - from Lawrence Trevanion, Canberra,
Quail
Hoopoe
Pueblo
Fenben
cheers
fermi
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A few standard daffodils flowering today, Tas Rose, perhaps my favourite double from Tasmania, bred by Harold Cross, and a few seedlings, unknown breeding.
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Here are 3 of my old seedlings, all bred from Tas Rose, 1 is pod fertile only, the other two both ways some years.
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A few more photos of a very tiny portion of what is in flower at the moment. The next fortnight will be our peak flowering time this year.
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Here are 3 of my old seedlings, all bred from Tas Rose, 1 is pod fertile only, the other two both ways some years.
I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks - I'm finding these doubles quite pretty, Paul!
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Maggie, the doubles are particularly good exhibition daffodils as are the 1Y-Y and 2W-P. The bottom double is the stand out as it has more layers of petals. Big doubles need the right climate. Our climate in Canberra is not the best for big doubles as we don't have enough water. There is a tendency to get green backs here with doubles.
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Some daffodil pics from the FCHS Spring Show yesterday,
some of the bench
more of the exhibits
Sue Thompson's Blue Ribbon winner
Rodney's Narc. canaliculatus ! How does he get that many flowers!!!
Josie's Narc. backflip
cheers
fermi
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More exhibits from FCHS Spring Show:
Narcissus 'Rapture'
'Nimbin'
'Jamage'
'Beryl'
mixed dwarf daffs
cheers
fermi
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Maggie, glad you like those double seedlings bred from Tas Rose. None of them are show varieties, all are valued breeders, the first is the stand-out with exceptional colour.Here are a few that caught my eye today.
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Some photos I took today. The 2O-R does not adequately reflect the orange colour in the perianth.
The Div 7 intermediated sized flower is quite outstanding.
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Nice to see that focussed daff breeding is continuing in Australia!
After the visit to the FCHS we visited Otto and took a few pics in the garden - I was astounded by the 6YY and 6WW seedlings appearing around the garden!
cheers
fermi
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Fantastic hybrids, i really love 1y-ppy
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Can someone tell me when I might see flowers on Narcissus broussonetii? I have a number of bulbs, some larger than others, with leaves up to 40cm so far, in full sun. Not flowered this yet.
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I think this is 'Elka', though I can't find a label amidst all the California Poppy which has overgrown the area!
The next is 'Kedron' 7O-R
A group of 'Ruddynosey' and 'Dovekie'
An unknown tazetta hybrid which I received as "Samba"
cheers
fermi
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Can someone tell me when I might see flowers on Narcissus broussonetii? I have a number of bulbs, some larger than others, with leaves up to 40cm so far, in full sun. Not flowered this yet.
If our experience is anything to go by, Brian, you might have a long wait. We have had the occasional flower of broussonetii - but in general we have great difficulty with the autumn flowering narcissus :'(
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Brian, your climate is all wrong for autumn flowering narcissus. We struggle to flower it so you are even more likely to have a problem.
Not sure how either my hybridising or the show on Saturday are going to fare since we have just had some heavy rain.
Our daffodil patch has hit maximum bloom at one time now. Unfortunately with the rain I have missed the opportunity to take photos so you can appreciate the quantity involved.
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Brian, your climate is all wrong for autumn flowering narcissus. We struggle to flower it so you are even more likely to have a problem.
Some I acquired locally from an ags member, but the larger ones were sent to me from Italy. Guess they might do better there.
Shoudl have said they are in pots, not in the garden.
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A few years ago I collected a seedpod from a daffodil which I had crossed with N.cyclamineus - unfortunately the name of the seed parent wasn't written on the tag! :o :-[
Today the first flower opened - it's a bit asymmetrical but may be useful as a parent! Perhaps it'll be more even next year ;D
cheers
fermi
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Brian, while you may grow your autumn flowering daffodil in a pot is it in a glass house that ensures the only water it gets is in autumn?
The autumn flowering daffodils grow well in the hot dry areas of California.
Odd things happen and sometimes the ferals turn out to be worth rescuing. I have attached a photo of a feral. Initially I thought it might have been a pink but on closer inspection it was an even orange color the length of the trumpet and the petals were white. It is much better than my other 1W-O seedling and should be crossed with it to brighten up the orange a little. Good 1W-O flowers are very rare.
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I should issue a warning for Lesley that this post features split cup daffodils!
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A few more photos.
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What temperature range, day to night, are you getting now, Graham?
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Maggie, the temperature range outside is 2 to 18 degrees Celsius. It is going to be 19 on Sunday and 20 next Wednesday. Temperatures here are not that much different to where Fermi lives or Launceston Tasmania. Inside it is a comfortable 22 degrees all the time.
We had a wet late autumn and that has not done anything for the miniatures. Flowering of miniatures is down compared to normal. They do better when it is hot and dry.
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Thanks Graham - gets cooler than I thought.
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Thanks Graham - gets cooler than I thought.
Graham is waaaay cool 8)
cheers
fermi
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Just one new pic this morning, a N. bulbocodium hybrid called 'Kenellis'
cheers
fermi
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A few daffs in the garden:
'Splatter'
'Hillview Triquill' from Marcus Harvey
'Bell Song'
'Porth Chapel' Not sure what this is now, after checking Daffseek! It might be 'Kinglet' which I'll post later!
And amongst the pots I have that bulbocodium hybrid from Keira Bulbs which has produced some strange, starry flowers compared to its earlier ones; any comments, Graham?
cheers
fermi
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Here's what I have as 'Kinglet'
cheers
fermi
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A few little daffs more in the garden:
'Aotea' raised by O'More in NZ
'Alec Gray' raised by Elizabeth Tainter (Mrs John Brewster) Capen in the USA
'Ringer' raised by Rod Barwick, Glenbrook Bulb Farms, Tassie,
cheers
fermi
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Anthony, we get short stems on our daffodils when we plant them out very late.
I will start off with some jonquilla hybrids. These are all miniature and not one of them is all yellow!
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More jonquilla hybrids.
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Some more miniature jonquilla hybrids and a Jocelyn Newman which is intermediate sized.
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Some triandus and triandus hybrids.
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More triandus and triandus hybrids.
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More triandus and triandus hybrids.
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Another split cup jonquilla 'Bella Estrella' 11a W-Y
'Bantam' 2 Y-YOO
'Intrigue' 7 Y-W - the back of the flower shows the white halo at the base of the petals
'Lemon & Barley' 8 W-Y
cheers
fermi
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Never met a triandrus hybrid I didn't like :) - and those white jonquils are gorgeous 8)
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More triandus and triandus hybrids. Our triandus hybrids have performed beyond expectations this year. We have had some with 8 or 9 florets per stem.
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I will move on to bulbocodiums now.
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Lesley, this post contains split cups.
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A few more photos.
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Fermi, I could swear that there is a tulip in one of your photos!
I will throw in a photo of the old dragon who has moved into our place.
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Final post for the evening. Some apodanthe hybrids.
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Fermi, I could swear that there is a tulip in one of your photos!
I will throw in a photo of the old dragon who has moved into our place.
Well, Graham,
we do try to grow a few things for when the daffs aren't in flower ;D
Here's a locally raised Div 3, 'Langley Dandy'.
Eva Murray lived at Langley which is half-way between us and Kyneton, where I work,
cheers
fermi
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Fermi, while we do daffodils in a big way we also appreciate other plants in the garden and I have to say I have seen plenty of plants and bulbs on SRGC posts from you and Otto that I would not mind having in my garden. It will keep Hillview in business for a while. As you know we are just developing the garden around the house and that will need a lot of plants. We also like camellias and in particular camellia reticulatas but it is difficult to obtain them as they are out of fashion at the moment and grafting makes them very expensive to produce.
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Absolutely stunning, Graham, as always. SO many beautiful things.
Loving yours too, Fermi. Some treasures amongst that lot, that is for sure. 8)
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My goodness, I actually like those! :o
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Anthony,does that mean you hate my split cups?
If you are referring to Tony Davis's split cups they are top quality exhibition split cups and nothing like a garden cultivar. Lots of substance and texture in the flowers and they come on nice long stems. He also has some very nice intermediate split cups.
Anthony, in relation to your short stems there is a solution but it is somewhat drastic - you can get long stems by moving back to Scotland! ;)
Paul, your post reminded me that I has some photos of you at the show to edit! :D
Mr Rickard came out to look at our daffodils this afternoon.
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That was me coming to thump you! ;D
So thankful your camera didn't crack from photographing all that ugly. Obviously the beauty of the flowers you were photographing offset the usual affect somehow.
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And Yes, I realised Simon was going there this afternoon. It must have been lovely to see a proper garden after the mess at my place he had to put up with this morning. I'm so jealous, still never seen your place. Any time you've had it available for Hort Society members I've had to be at work. So frustrating. :o Not meant to be. ;)
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Paul, you should have arranged to come with Simon. With the slow down because of the cold weather it is about maximum flowering time at the moment. There is still the late season flowering to occur but the majority of the big stuff is out and the early season miniatures are all gone now. It is however the time for giant bulbocodiums to flower. Friday or Saturday afternoon would be the last window of opportunity.
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Thanks Graham. I don't invite myself along with people, that just isn't polite. ;D
Unfortunately I'm working both Friday and Saturday (only days this week of course, Murphy's Law, haven't worked since Saturday 10 days ago). I realise you don't have people around that often, and respect that. No need to make an exception for me. Thank you though. :D
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Paul there is always next year.
A few more photos. We are moving into late season now so it is a case of triandus and jonquilla hybrids and late flowering standards. I will start with some of our best jonquilla hybrids. While they are only intermediate in size they are exhibition quality.
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Some photos of some of our late season miniature jonquilla hybrids.
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Warning: This is a split cup post!
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A few triandus and triandus hybrids.
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A few more photos.
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Graham,
I'm not that rapt with most splits but the jonquilla types are "growing on me" and those pinks are really cute!
I'll be looking out for them on your list!
cheers
fermi
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Some really pretty jonquil hybrids there, Graham.
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a few seedlings flowering now
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A few more photos. The intermediate jonquilla split cup has changed colour to an 11W-A. More an apricot pink than pink.
The miniature 4W-P is from Glenbrook but I can't see how you end up with a double from Swagger x Pink China.
A lot of our jonquilla hybrids are on quite short stems as they are part of our miniature hybridising program. Ideal for rock gardens.
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A few more photos.
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Final group of photos for the night.
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A few more photos. We are moving into the triandus and late flowering jonquils now. The poeticus are just about ready to start flowering. We still have save late standards opening. These are mostly US or Brian Duncan daffodils.
Paul, I like the colour of your 2W-P seedling.
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A few more photos.
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fantastic forms and variations, love them all :P
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Some to die for seedlings among tonight's photos.
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This post comes with a split cup warning.
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I think they are pretty good split cups but since they are my seedlings I am biased!
And with the appearance of our first poeticus seedling you can see that we hybridise in all daffodil divisions (1-13).
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Our season continues on and it is surprising how many good things are still opening.
Lots of triandus and jonquilla hybrids have opened but there are still a few species flowering now. The poeticus have only just started to flower. I obviously need to do a deal with people who have early flowering poeticus. Some miniatures are flowering now because we were late planting them out.
Anthony Darby does not have the problem of working out whether the stem is a miniature stem or a short stem because it has been planted out late.
We have some very nice standards that are flowering at the moment. They were planted out late but are on tall stems and that is a little confusing for me.
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Fermi, the apodanthe hybrid from Lawrence will do nicely for you. It needs to be kept dry in summer for it to perform best.
All the N. atlanticus in the previous photo are very much a mistake. They should be back with our other bulbs but I have not got around to moving them back. I took a photo today but have not downloaded them yet. Most of the N. atlanticus are now out.
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A few photos of what is flowering now. We are not really noted as standard daffodil hybridisers and it is a while since I have done any serious standard daffodil hybridising. In this context it was pleasing to have a really high quality 2Y-YYO seedling flower along with some really good 2Y-Y's late in the season.
The weather has been bad so both photos and hybridising are less than usual.
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A few more photos. The poeticus are starting to flower now but I am not sure whether our best ones are going to flower this year.
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A few late daffs in our garden:
Xit, 3 W-W raised by Alec Gray pre 1948
Grey Lady, 3 W-WWP by Wilson, pre 1935
Clay's Gold 10 Y-Y, Keira Bulbs 2003
cheers
fermi
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Fermi, how big was Clay's Gold for you. It should be over 50mm in diameter (tip of petals to tip of opposite petal).
First off some miniatures that are on what for us are tall stems for miniatures. One of the parents must have been one of our fertile jonquils. I must have run out of things to do at the end of the season to have produced this lot of miniatures.
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The first of our near miniature poeticus has flowered. It has lots of petal coverage. It would be a lot better if it were early flowering.
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I obviously spend far too much time at the end of the season producing high quality late flowering hybrids.
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A few more photos.
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The last photo is of a really nice 7Y-W seedling of the highest quality. It is on the tallest of our jonquilla hybrids stems.
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I obviously spend far too much time at the end of the season producing high quality late flowering hybrids.
Don't stop, Graham - I reckon late season plants are very valuable - extending the period of interest and being likely to miss late frosts etc - here such plants are much appreciated, for sure!
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Maggie, that would be fine if any of our daffodils were to ever find their way to Scotland but so far they have only made it England. Our US customers have a preference for early flowering miniatures.
We used to have a late show in Bowral but that stopped about 10 years ago. We purchased bulbs for their late flowering quality. We have extended the flowering season for many miniatures by quite a deal. It is now the end of September and we have a heap of exhibition quality miniatures flowering. Our season goes into October now. We have also done a deal of work so we have heaps of things flowering from the beginning of August.
I am running out of standards for breeding.
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One of the real breakthroughs is the intermediate sized flower in the previous post. It is almost miniature and is fertile with our miniatures so it opens up lots of opportunities as it is coloured.
As you can see from this photo we also have some good decoratives coming out of our hybridising.
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Final post for the evening.
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A few more photos.
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The end is coming rapidly now. It has warmed up a bit and there was some wind so the end is nigh. Nearly time for me to turn into a big fat pumpkin and disappear for another 12 months.
I have done some very good crosses this year so in 3-5 years it will be interesting to see what we get in the way of new seedlings.
Soon it will be seed harvest time.
Anne I need some of your minions!
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Graham you have some really lovely minis. You might need to breed for global warming as we here in SA had the high temps and strong winds yesterday that would wreck any late flowerers.
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Pat, we are in a fairly exposed position in terms of winds from the west. Our miniatures tend to be the least affected by high temperatures. It is our standards that suffered badly in the drought and in particular when we had some hot August winds. We are on the way to drought-proofing the property via recycling systems and collecting rainwater. During the 13 year drought our miniatures actually thrived. They like it hot and dry. This year we had quite a few miniatures not flower because it rained too much at the wrong time.
To some extent our miniatures are protected by our 2 metre high colourbond boundary fence which is to the north-west. Have a look in the background of the photo at the fence. Our back fence is cyclone fencing so it offers no protection. As most of our trees are deciduous they don't help with strong wind at this time of the year as they don't have any leaves yet.
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I will start with some split cups from the Daffodil Show.
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Some more split cups and some other good seedlings seen at the Daffodil Show.
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Our season continues on. Some nice seedlings are still opening.
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These were posted from earlier photos but it is always good to see how some develop over time.
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Fermi, how big was Clay's Gold for you. It should be over 50mm in diameter (tip of petals to tip of opposite petal).
Hi Graham,
It was certainly that size -here it is compared to a "normal" sized N.bulbocodium,
cheers
fermi
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Good to see that it is performing properly for you Fermi. It should stand out in the garden for you from the comparison.
We have a number of Division 7 hybrids of our own breeding that have been flowering for between 6 weeks and 4 weeks. The bulbs send up flower stems over a period so it provides a very long bloom period. Very unusual but it provides more colour in the garden than a normal daffodil.
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A few more late flowering daffodils. You know the season is coming to an end when the Quickstep hybrids are opening. I don't think we grow any quickstep itself any more but we do have some which are probably Quickstep selfed.
One of the seedlings is a nice miniature 7W-P seedling.
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We have had some hotter weather so a lot of daffodils are now finished. However, our season continues on so I can do two post this evening. It is mostly Quickstep seedlings, late flowering triandus hybrids bred from Quickstep, N. assoanus, a few bulobocodiums and a few that were planted out very late.
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What is my last post for the season. It has some really nice things. A miniature double, a split cup with the most amazing colour and a poeticus that is just a little too big for miniature. It is a pity the poeticus is so late flowering.
The new camera and lenses have made life easier in terms of taking photos.