Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: no longer a member on January 10, 2008, 11:12:37 AM
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This person is no longer a registered forum member
hi im so glad to find a forum for my fav bulb! (EDIT: moved here from Galanthus pages, M)
i wanted to know when the bulb fly starts looking for bulbs to lay eggs on?
sadly i lost my wendys gold and lady elphintstone to these horrible things.
i found about 3 grey grubs under a vitrually destroyed bulb.
i think these were allready in the bulbs as none of my other were infected.
i bought both bulbs from ebay, so i informed the seller to check any bulbs they send me in the future.
all my bubls are grown in pots so i was thinking of placing a layer of fleece over the plants securely to stop the flys.
is this feasable? would this prvent the females from laying?
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Hi Rob
It depends where you live. Where are you?
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Thanks Rob.
If you buy snowdrops in the spring while in growth they do not have the grub inside. The grub leaves the bulb during May and pupates nearby. It emerges to fly from the end of May and earlier in the south. They time emergence to coincide with leaves that are dying back. Their dirty work is done by the end of June
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If you had them last year there are probably grubs in bulbs now.
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Hi Rob - welcome!
Are we SURE that the grubs are Narcissus fly? 'Under the bulbs' and 'grey grubs' suggest vine weevil rather than narcissus fly.
I have experience of both Narcissus fly and Vine weevil :'( :'( :'( and your initial post left me wondering ... ???
Try looking both up on the net - you might find images of the grubs to help Id them.
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Narcissus fly grub in the bulb and cleaned
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Vine weevil grubs are pure white.
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Vine weevil grubs are pure white.
.....and pure evil! The little blighters regularly eat their way through my strawberries, lavenders and heucheras.
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how can i tell if any are infected this year?
each year i repot the bulbs with fresh soil, and also check the bulbs, any signs i need to look out for?
When do you repot? By late autumn the grub is already large and the bulb will be soft
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When you repot after the bulb leaves have died back the damage is done ie the grub is already in the bulb. You can spray your bulbs with a systemic insecticide either commercial or agricultural or cover them with a fleece at the end of May. Check daily for emerged adults.
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Q. Does this fly pupate above soil?
A. My guess is they pupate in May just outside of the bulb
Q. Can you recomend a brand of isectcide? (i didnt know you could treat for this pest)?
A. No. There are no recommended insecticides. I currently use a nasty that is likely to kill me also. It requies me to suit up but I dont.
Q. When does the fly stop looking for host bulbs?
A. when I kill it! but usually, in my experience, the end of June but last year they were active until July
I think it was Martin who said it's the large scale planting of daffs along road sides that hasnt helped the problem.
If Maggi is feeling bored some night maybe she can collect everything that has ever been said about the little _ _ _ _ _ _ _ and put it in one place. Only Joking Maggi.
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If you have a pot of bulbs not showing any sign of growth gently poke around to look for the bulbs. If there is a large hole in the top you will know you definitely have the dreaded Narcissus fly
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I have had a similar experience with fly in part of my species narcissus collection. I repot every summer and always check every bulb for firmness. Any that do not seem completely hard are discarded. By late summer many of the larvae are quite large and have begun to hollow out the bulb. No matter how careful I have been I have not yet beaten the problem, as the bulbs all seem to grow well during the season I suspect outside sources for the fly. Narcissus cultivars are planted in the city parks and were field grown within a few miles until quite recently. The plants affected are in open sided cold frames while those in a greenhouse have been OK so far.
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I get them in my greenhouse
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I hope that the healthy growth is a sign that I have removed all affected bulbs. However I think that the fly returns from plants outside the collection each year and re-starts the problem. Of course if I miss one bad bulb that may be enough.
Good luck with your snowdrops.
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I've shown this before but this is for Rob - freshly squeezed female Narcissus fly from summer '07
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eggs
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:o
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Anne it's great to kill one but better if it's a female
Here are two more photos for Rob. I dont know if I've shown these already. I'm preparing a lecture and came across these in my September folder
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Look on the bright side, it could be worse - they might do that to people! :P
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Little Bas....s!
Paddy
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From the sound of it, I think Tony must have had the same problem with his winter-flowering narcissus as I had with my snowdrops during the incredibly hot Spring weather last year - bulbs dying down very early before managing to build up enough reserves to flower this year.
In my garden, where snowdrop leaves shrivelled in the heat last spring, I now have only about half the number of flowers I should, some normally free-flowering clumps have no flowers at all, and many bulbs that are flowering have gone down in size so much that the flowers are half the size they were last year. Same story with many of the crocus.
Martin,
I agree your opinion and I have a personal thesis that the early heat/drought last spring has also increased the number of bulbs being infested with parasites like narcissus flies. Can you confirm?
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Armin, I don't remember seeing many narcissus fly around last year until after the early disappearance of the snowdrop leaves, and I think I recall Mark saying that the narcissus fly were late appearing, after many leaves had gone.
I don't know, but I suspect the narcissus fly may appear only when they reach the right development, after a set time in the bulbs, and in a set month, so may not be able to emerge early if the weather is warm (like bees, which are just hibernating). So a warm spring and early leaf die-back would be bad news for the fly - but at least some good news for us!
I haven't lifted any snowdrops this year so don't know if there are many narcissus fly grubs in them. I will be lifting a lot for chipping, so will post to say if I find a lot of fly in them. I know my mother found some in her snowdrops last week, but she is at a higher altitude and her snowdrops die back later than mine.
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Martin, no - my thesis is opposite!
The new generation of narcissus flies hatching usually eof April to mof May, flying until eof Aug. according to some sources.
If spring wheather is warm and dry, many flies will hatch a bit earlier and at once. Consequently will start breeding/laying eggs by return. Furthermore, the earlier died-back foliage offers an easier access for the hatched maggots to enter the bulbs. Infection rate increases.
In the opposite, if environmental conditions remain bad -spring is cold and wet- less flies survive, hatch and breed. Bulb infection rate is smaller. Sofar my thesis.
I never had any bigger losses of Narcissus bulbs yet before. But when I lifted my bulbs in Aug/Sept. last year I found many rotted with big maggots inside. This supports my thoughts.
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If spring wheather is warm and dry, many flies will hatch a bit earlier and at once. Consequently will start breeding/laying eggs by return. Furthermore, the earlier died-back foliage offers an easier access for the hatched maggots to enter the bulbs. Infection rate increases.
In the opposite, if environmental conditions remain bad -spring is cold and wet- less flies survive, hatch and breed. Bulb infection rate is smaller. Sofar my thesis.
I never had any bigger losses of Narcissus bulbs yet before. But when I lifted my bulbs in Aug/Sept. last year I found many rotted with big maggots inside. This supports my thoughts.
I see. So you think the narcissus fly grubs develop faster and turn into adults faster in a warmer Spring? Of course the bulb and soil temperature would depend on many factors - if the bulbs with the maggots were growing deep or shallow in the soil, in sun or shade, north slope or south-facing slope, etc. But I see your point. Does anyone know (Anthony?) if bulb-tunneling grubs could do this - turn into adults faster in warmer temperatures?
I try to remove snowdrop leaves as they die, and cover the leaf-holes with compost, to stop fly.
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if bulb-tunneling grubs could do this - turn into adults faster in warmer temperatures
Given the fact that temperatures have a huge impact on the gender assignment of things like turtles and crocodiles ( I'm sure David Attenborough explained all this some years ago...) then it hardly seems a great leap of the imagination to suppose that a grub can make growth adjustments by temperature alone.
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if bulb-tunneling grubs could do this - turn into adults faster in warmer temperatures
Given the fact that temperatures have a huge impact on the gender assignment of things like turtles and crocodiles ( I'm sure David Attenborough explained all this some years ago...) then it hardly seems a great leap of the imagination to suppose that a grub can make growth adjustments by temperature alone.
Then how come human babies don't pop out earlier in summer and later in winter? ;D I appreciate that environmental factors can speed or slow growth in organisms, just wasn't sure what the balance would be in insect grubs between environmental factors like soil warmth and in-built genetic factors that determine normal development cycles and gestation periods.
My general observations are that the flies seem to appear about the same time every year, regardless of whether it's a warm or cold Spring, or whether it was a mild or freezing winter.
Mark seems to know a lot about the lifecycle of narcissus flie. Can you help us, Mark?
The important thing is to try to remove your old snowdrop leaves as soon as possible, and fill in the soil holes or cover with compost to stop the flies getting in.
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Oh, and kill the narcissus flies. Swat them! Kill them! Kill them all...kill...killll...them! (curls up in ball, struggling against straight-jacket, and writes 'kill the narcissus flies' on wall of padded cell with foot, like Clousseau's demented boss in the Pink Panther films).
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Lot of differences between humans, turtles and grubs, Martin ! ::) That could be an idea for your next book.... I'll only expect a small "finders" fee!! ::)
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Lot of differences between humans, turtles and grubs, Martin ! ::) That could be an idea for your next book.... I'll only expect a small "finders" fee!! ::)
Yes, as soon as I posted that I thought "Umm, human babies, mother's body temperature constant, daft comparison." But then I was only joking.
Seriously though, Armin's raised an interesting point. Maybe us snowdrop and daff growers could watch out for when the narcissus fly first appear after this mild winter and report if we see them earlier than usual. It might help prove his point.
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Martin, I followed this discussion now for some days.
Here I’ll try to reflect my thoughts.
You are taking the leaves away after flowering and then cover the bulbs with extra soil, that's o.k.. But the vegetation produces the bulb’s energy reserve that is needed for next year’s growth. So next year there might be less flowers.
Plant if possible your bulbs in exposed windy places, the flies don’t like this.
When you take out your bulbs you could consider soaking bulbs in hot water (43-44oC) for an hour or so. That’s usual for all Narcissus here in Holland just before planting. I don’t know about Galanthus !Care must be taken to not exceed this temperature, because you will damage the bulb. This is the best way to kill other pests of bulbs, too.
I don’t think I told you much news and there is always the possibility to sit in the garden on a nice sunny day in May admiring the place and then grab your insect net and catch those flies before they start laying their eggs.
Oh, and kill the narcissus flies. Swat them! Kill them! Kill them all...kill...killll...them! (curls up in ball, struggling against straight-jacket, and writes 'kill the narcissus flies' on wall of padded cell with foot, like Clousseau's demented boss in the Pink Panther films).
regards
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Luit, I didn't mean that I remove the snowdrop leaves after flowering but before they die: I mean that I remove them as soon as they turn yellow and start to die away, after they have done their work. I do this instead of leaving them shrivelling and rotting on the soil to attract narcissus flies.
Heat treatment is not as safe for the smaller bulbs of galanthus as for big narcissus bulbs, and snowdrop growers don't lift all their bulbs every year.
My favourite weapon, as I've mentioned here before, is my old tennis racket. You can hear the narcissus fly coming as they make a distinctive whining sound as they fly, and my tennis forehand greatly benefits from the practice. ;D
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Oh, and kill the narcissus flies. Swat them! Kill them! Kill them all...kill...killll...them! (curls up in ball, struggling against straight-jacket, and writes 'kill the narcissus flies' on wall of padded cell with foot, like Clousseau's demented boss in the Pink Panther films).
Right Martin, sounds like a good idea for a caricature? Choose your victim! ;D
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My favourite weapon, as I've mentioned here before, is my old tennis racket. You can hear the narcissus fly coming as they make a distinctive whining sound as they fly, and my tennis forehand greatly benefits from the practice.
Well Martin, my skills in sport are more on the tribune-site.
Need my energy for the real gardening work, i.e sitting there and admire the flowers. :D ;)
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.......Plant if possible your bulbs in exposed windy places, the flies don’t like this................
Luit, I think you could well be right, I have not (so far!) ever been troubled by them.
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I don’t think I told you much news and there is always the possibility to sit in the garden on a nice sunny day in May admiring the place and then grab your insect net and catch those flies before they start laying their eggs.
Well, why not creating a new kind of sports: Killing narcissus flies with different tools, i.e.
tennis rackets, insect nets, shotguns or sprayer? Take care and don't foul other players.
2 teams: Galanthophiles versus Daff enthusiasts.
But seriously: there are two active substances which may help against the larvae. These are Omethoate and Chlorpyrifos. Maybe they are no longer allowed, I don't know the present registrations.
Gerd
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Well, why not creating a new kind of sports: Killing narcissus flies with different tools, i.e.
tennis rackets, insect nets, shotguns or sprayer? Take care and don't foul other players.
2 teams: Galanthophiles versus Daff enthusiasts.
Well, I'm neutral. So will volunteer as referee. (saving my energy!) 8)
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Gerd,
Don't you think the shotgun could perhaps be a little in the way of overkill?
Luit,
Given that shotguns are in play then you are VERY game to be offering to referee. You'll be right in the firing line (quite literally in this case) and they'll be watching the flies, not who is in the background. :o
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Gerd, shotguns seem a little risky but I think both the substances you name are now not permitted in the UK so we may have little choice but to take up arms.
Luit, I would be very much against your taking a position of danger but perhaps the referee sits in a tall tower at some distance, with tea and cake, so, that may be fine ???
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In my garden they are active before the leaves start to yellow
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Oops, at the moment I was posting this message, somebody was 1 second faster than I, so trying again.
Given that shotguns are in play then you are VERY game to be offering to referee. You'll be right in the firing line (quite literally in this case) and they'll be watching the flies, not who is in the background.
Paul, I dont' think there's much reason to be afraid.
Given the fact there are still so many narcissus-flies left, I think these players are real miserable
shooters.... 8) 8)
Luit, I would be very much against your taking a position of danger but perhaps the referee sits in a tall tower at some distance, with tea and cake, so, that may be fine
That's what I was thinking about.
Maggi, I'm grateful you are so concerned about my health, posting at the same moment! :-*
Luit
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Luit,
The fact that the players are miserable shooters is what I was CONCERNED about!! They aim at the flies and hit you instead, even though you're 150m to the side and up an angle of 25 degrees. ::)
Maggi, I reckon the referee would need the tall tower, coffee and cake, and a bullet proof box surrounding him!! Only way to be safe with people around with shot guns and the white fever!! ;D
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In my garden they are active before the leaves start to yellow
And no doubt active after the leaves are yellow too. At least removing the leaves when they start to die back reduces the chances of infestation a little and is a good precaution. Not much you can do when the leaves are still green, except spray regularly with insecticide - and kill them with tennis rackets...as I've said before, the best time to get them is when they're mating; they make an extra-loud whining sound then, and you get two with one squish...also they settle on the ground or on leaves to mate, so are easier to swat.
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Gerd, shotguns seem a little risky but I think both the substances you name are now not permitted in the UK so we may have little choice but to take up arms.
Maggi, I agree concerning the use of shotguns. But keep in mind - the whole garden would be ' clean ' - there are no cats, dogs, squirrels, blackbirds or unpopular neighbors left.
But now - back to seriousness.
There is a granule here in Germany which is used against the larvae of different flies on the roots of carrots, onions and cabbage. This agent has a certain long-term effect, which means the plants are protected for a long time (I don't know the period).
Unfortunately here in Germany the registration of this granule (Nexion Neu/ Chlorpyrifos) is only for the vegetables mentioned above. This means application on daffodils is not permitted, maybe this is differnt in other countries.
Gerd
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Hi et all,
I'm pleased to notice the Narcissus fly and its different combat methods caused rich feedback.
Coming back to my thesis. If spring wheather is warm and dry, many flies will hatch a bit earlier and at once. Infestation increases...
Martin questioned earlier whether i.e. temperature has an influence on the development time on narcissus fly maggots.
I say "yes". Because another hobby of mine is fishing. I catch trouts usually with ordinary fly maggots. You can stop and delay by some weeks the maggot development by storing your maggot box in the refrigurator at cool 5-7°C. But if you leave your box unattended in a warm place i.e. forgot the box in your car parking in sunshine you quickly (within 1day) get chrysalis when the temp. is right. Latest after 4 days you will have handreds of new flys in your box. If you then open the box to check if there are still maggots ::)...Halleluja! :o ;D
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Howdy All,
I'm posting this here as it is regarding Amaryllis grubs....... I think I have just found them for the first time here in Canberra. A Crinum I was repotting had no growth, but the bulb seemed firm, until I knocked it out and found the bottom squishy and the basal plate rotted out. I cut the bulb in half and found amongst the black muck 3 grubs about 1cm long, maybe a bit less. Do I start getting really paranoid, or just hope that this is an oddity rather than the first sign of invasion? I'll ask about this on the Australian Bulb Association list as well, to hear a local perspective too.
There is a lot mixed in with this thread, as well as other postings in other places in the past..... is it possible to copy them together into a thread to be able to have information on them together?
Thanks in anticipation (and a healthy helping of paranoia)
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There is a lot mixed in with this thread, as well as other postings in other places in the past..... is it possible to copy them together into a thread to be able to have information on them together?
Paul, I'll have a go when time permits. :)
Done : Monday 15.40pm M
Will look to see if other bits and bobs could be moved here too.........
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I will not move all other posts, but make some links here:
See this : Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum > Cultivation > Cultivation Problems > Narcissus bulb fly
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=204.msg4228;topicseen#msg4228
A search for "Narcissus fly", using the SEARCH button (third from the left at top of each forum page) will bring up a goodly number of references...too many to post here.... lots in Galanthus threads etc!
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That's great work, Maggi ! You know, I too was afraid our beautiful Narcissus would get totally snow-covered by these 'White Fever' people ;D ;D ;D
Thanks a lot, you earned an extra bar...!
Luit
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On the topic of killing pests using shotguns - this is not as far-fetched as some might think.
I recall reading an old gardening book some years back. The title ran somewhat along the lines of 'Your Garden Week by Week' and in the fruit and vegetable section it gave a method of dealing with gooseberry sawfly, a perfect nuisance on gooseberry bushes as anyone who grows them will know.
The suggestion went as follows: spread a generous sprinkling of ground lime under the gooseberry bushes; stand at the end of the line of gooseberry bushes and discharge both barrels of the shotgun, aiming just above the bushes; this will cause the sawflies to fall to the ground, onto the ground lime and death follows quickly.
Although it may sound extreme; it also sounds perfectly feasable so there might be something in it for treating narcissus fly!
Paddy
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Once upon a time, many years ago, we used to live near Tarves in Aberdeenshire and had an excentric neighbour known as 'The Laird'. One year we had a such seriously bad infestation of Cabbage White butterfly caterpillars that he completely lost his cool and blasted them all with his shotgun! It did not do much for the cabbages but at least it allowed him to release his anger.
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Maggi,
Thanks! I hadn't meant for you to actually move things, but rather to copy bits and pieces into a thread. I know that some of them are intermingled with other threads (I seem to recall pictures of the larvae somewhere too), so I thought that it might have been possible to make a copy of things that were already in another thread, leaving them where they were but making a copy in here. I very much appreciate what you have pulled out into here though, as it does bring all that together. 8)
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Yes, Paul, copy pix ofthe fly and grub would be useful and I will do that soon.
You will now find pix earlier in this thread, since I merged the topic from Galanthus... bulb fly, when are they active and Mark had reposted some of his pix of grubs etc there.
M
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Maggi,
Sorry, wasn't intending to make work for you. Just seemed like a good idea to have them all together.
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No problem, Paul, just having a busy day!!
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Thanks Maggi.
Checking back to Mark's pictures, mine may be Narcissus Fly rather than Amaryllis grub. I had thought they were the same thing but on the ABA (Aus Bulb Assoc.) I was informed that I could have Narcissus Fly infestation rather than Amaryllis grub. So how do I tell the difference, and how widely do they eat (given that mine was in a Crinum, not a Narcissus)?
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Lots of stuff both in old and new Forum... here are a few handy links:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=623.msg15022;topicseen#msg15022
mentions of Vine weevil and Nar fly.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=474.180 Lilly beetle Liliocerus lillii page 13
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=474.180 page 14 nar fly eggs, pic
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1188.0
http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/19423.html Old forum pagesFFNow Gal.2005, with nar fly
http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/1078/35058.html Old forum. Wildlife, pix of goodies and baddies! July 06
Narfly pages old forum May 2005
http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/12523.html
Enjoy!
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And some other pix, collated for your convenience......
First, Cliff Booker's pic of Lily Beetle Liliocerus lilii, just to vary the nasties!
Now, assorted Narcissus fly pix, and the photographer...
John Forrest nar.fly1
John Forrest J nar.fly 2
Mark Smyth grubs
Mark Smyth narcissus fly adult
Mark Smyth telltale holes in bulbs
Mark Smyth narflygrub in bulb1
Mark Smyth NarFly eggs
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Last year the season in my garden was prolonged due to the rain. I had adults flying in July. I mentioned before that they emerge when leaves are showing no sign of dying back. Those who say you dont have them I suggest on a warm/hot day sitting in the garden near your bulbs and watch for what look like blue bottles/blow flies flying low and fast close to the ground often in wide circles. If you have hardy Geraniums and other early flowering plants check for the adults drinking/eating. You will not mistake them for bumble bees that will be flying then also.
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Martin has told us the narcissus fly make a distinct whining sound as they fly... another tip to listen for!
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Out of interest, do you guys get blowflies over in the UK?
Also, how big are the actual Narcissus Fly?
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Same size as a blow fly or drone fly - not a house fly. Paul your problem with three grubs in one bulbs wont be the same as our problem. It's most likely the small Narcissus fly. I have never has more than one grub per bulbs
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Yes, to the blowflies, Paul
Just found this handy page: on large Narcissus fly Merodon equestrishttp://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/whri/research/integratedpestmanagement/narcissusflytreatment/
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And this , from PBS :http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusBulbFly
and this pdf http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:tgryzT4ErOoJ:www.which.co.uk/files/application/pdf/Narcissus%2520Bulb%2520Fly%2520302-445-92683.pdf+small+narcissus+fly&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=uk
small Narcissus fly, two species : Eumerus strigatus and E. tuberculatus
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I will be using Chlorpyrifos weekly this year as soon as the flowers go over
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The narcissus fly do make a very distintive high-pitched whining sound as they fly, quite unlike the low drone of the bees. As I've said before, you'll often see narcissus fly try to mate with bumble bees, attracted to the bumble bees by their droning. But you'll also see them being roughly rebuffed. Also, where bees and bumble bees are mostly interested in flowers, going from bloom to bloom, narcissus flies are equally interested in leaves, alighting regularly on leaves, especially bulbs (snowdrops, narcissus, colchicums are all favourites to sit on) and will sit on the leaves basking in the sun.
The twits also (apart from their normal give-away whine) give off a particularly loud and high-pitched whine when two of them get together to mate, so it's often very easy to locate them locked together in nuptial bliss on the ground by the noise...and SQUISH them!!! Wa-ha-ha-hah!! Serves them right. They should learn to do it quietly.
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Mark, when you say the season was prolonged by the rain, do you mean the narcissus fly were emerging late because the weather was too wet in April/May? In which case, that fits with Armin's theory that the grubs alter their development and emergence to suit the weather conditions.
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Chlorpyrifos... I thought it was banned... what trade names is it under? Dangerous stuff, in my opinion, yet I suppose half the world is toxic in some way or another.... :'( :-\ :-X
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They should learn to do it quietly.
there speaks a parent!
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They should learn to do it quietly.
there speaks a parent!
Have removed my rude joke before social services really do come to get me!
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We get LOTS of blowflies here, but we don't have bumble bees in Australia (well, outside of Tasmania anyway.... yet!)
Mark,
The grubs were about a cm long, so how much smaller are the lesser ones? The grubs look very much like your pictures you posted, and from other links given the Meredon equestris. The Crinum bulb these guys were in was about 4 inches wide.
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I think it was the cool conditions that kept them alive for longer. Yes two get together there is a loud scooter/wasp in a can whine. During June while watching my swifts I always have a swat in my hand. Set some flat stones among the leaves for them to sun bathe on
Paul isnt there a major threat to Crinums and Amaryllis? When I visited Green Goblin in South Africa a grub was attacking his rare blue Amaryllis
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Mark,
That was the Amaryllis grub which I was initially talking about, but apparently (from response on the ABA list. I'll try to pass on information up here as anything eventuates there as well, so that we have the information available to readers here too) they start by eating the leaves then head into the bulb, by which time they're 4 or 5cm long. Definitely not my beasties. Given mine had 3 grubs to the one bulb it is likely mine are the smaller narcissus fly, not the larger, although my grubs look very much like your pics.
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http://www.food.gov.uk/news/newsarchive/2001/dec/chlorpyrifos
but!
http://www.poptel.org.uk/panap/pest/pe-chlor.htm
I think this is one I will not use. Although I have said I don't appear to have trouble from the Narcissus fly (perhaps to wet and windy for it in my garden) I normally trickle a good quantity of dry sand into the holes left by dying back leaves. Don't know if this might help for others though>
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Maggi ,
here in Germany is aviable Chlorpyriphos until 31.12.2015 - the name of the praeparat is NEXION !
I have ask before 2 years by a Office from Agricultural what I could use to fight against Narcissus fly -they advices me Nexion .
I personly watering all my galathus bulbs as protection against Narcissus fly two times ( May +June ) since this time I hab not more problems -earlier sometimes .
Nexion I use for my sowing pots as protection against "Trauermückenlarven" -sorry -but I dont know the word in english -this helps really .
Further I use yellow stickers to catch the adult insects .
Sorry to report :
Yesterday I found in a big bulb of Phaedranassa a lot of larvae from Narcissus fly -one or two big one ...and a lot of small one ....grrrrrrr !- the bulb was complete destroyed but it has some good bulbils ...there is hope !.....now I know I have to watering also my other bulbs of Amaryllidacee with a insecticide !
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Dontcha just love it when the US government declares a pesticide dangerous, with very serious health implications (especially of children and pregnant women) and severely restricts its use while our government declares it perfectly safe for us all to continue consuming our 'acceptable daily dose' throughout our lives. For a start, an 'acceptable daily dose' of a poison may not do serious harm on its own in laboratory conditions with rats (that the scientists can see) but when consumed by us with a whole cocktail of other 'acceptable daily doses' of other noxious poisons, the long-term result can be quite different!
And when the powers-that-be do decide to limit use of a dangerous pesticide (whether fungicide or insecticide) the first thing they do is stop amateur gardeners using it in tiny quantities ('cos we can't be trusted not to swig it while potting up our bulbs) while still allowing the agricultural 'industry', golf courses, etc to continue pouring thousands of tons or millions of gallons of the stuff onto our foods and into our water courses and aquifers.
Makes you head straight for the organic food section, especially if you've kids to feed.
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Try Dursban
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Try Dursban
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/06/09/dursban.alternatives/
One suggested substance is imidacloprid, but see http://www.bbka.org.uk/articles/imidacloprid.php
Maybe I shall stick to sand! ???
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Nexion I use for my sowing pots as protection against "Trauermückenlarven" -sorry -but I dont know the word in english -this helps really .
Hans here is the name:
These belong to the Sciaridae, the grubs or larvae cause the most damage to our plants.
They like high humidity.
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David : I use Confidor - but we have always be careful with this insecticides ( and fungicides )
the real advantage of Confidor is that you can watering -thats better as to spray it
Luit : Thank you - this is what I mean .....
here is it :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sciaridae
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David : I use Confidor - but we have always be careful with this insecticides ( and fungicides )
the real advantage of Confidor is that you can watering -thats better as to spray it
Hans, i have not heard of Confidor but a quick Google suggests that although it is available in some parts of Europe, Australia and South Africa I could find no mention of it in UK sites
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I think that during the first week of June every member across Europe, who grows Narcissus and Galanthus, should spend at least an hour on a warm/hot day looking for the fly. If I have them present before the leaves die back I'm sure others will too. Maybe the fursther south you are you could look for them in late May
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June; a warm/hot day; an hour! Which planet do you live on, Mark ::)
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OK if it's warm enough for shorts ... If I could get a tan last summer it must have been OK on certain days but then I have an unfair advantage with my genes - boot cut Levi's just now
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Mark, whilst I am quite sure that we don't have narcissus fly a conceretd look in June is not a bad idea.
Why don't you prepare us a worksheet with pictures of the fly, what and were to look and how to tackle any fly that might be found?
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Just sat in the greenhouse with a torch and caught a big fat cutworm that was eating my cyclamen. Thats the second this week so do not know how many left. Hate to think what the neighbours make of it.
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Just sat in the greenhouse with a torch and caught a big fat cutworm that was eating my cyclamen. Thats the second this week so do not know how many left. Hate to think what the neighbours make of it.
Probably 'poor old boy,wife's thrown him out again'! :P
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[
Just sat in the greenhouse with a torch and caught a big fat cutworm that was eating my cyclamen. Thats the second this week so do not know how many left. Hate to think what the neighbours make of it.
Tony, when I was young, I admired famous English tiger- and lionhunters - and now? what are you hunting now? narcissus flies and cutworms (insects :o) - times changed totally ;D ?
Gerd
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Actually, Gerd, the most common British hunting target nowadays is a Dentist, specifically the rarest species, the National Health Dentist.... this is an ever-increasing pastime across the UK with particularly avid hunters in Scotland, where only one in five people have access to one of these precious animals.....the rest are left to try to find the other variety, becoming more widespread bu not at all popular, the Private Dentist.....the lack of popularity of the Private Dentist is entirely down to cost..... only the richest snowdrop collectors can afford one of these ( in stark contrast to the world of Galanthophiles, where the most expensive IS the most popular). The majority of the nation is left to try to satisfy their instinct for hunting and bloodlust by pulling out their own teeth with pliers.
Try a Google search of Dentists in the UK and see the sorts of newspaper reports....sadly this is not a joke :-X
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Gerd I have given up on tigers but I would still give chase to a good looking woman (in my dreams)
Maggie I still have a NHS dentist for the moment but Mrs W.or as I usually call her plumtious lost hers last month. It now costs the equivalent of a good snowdrop per month to keep her healthy
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Tony, I cannot tell you how much I look forward to meeting Mrs W. she sounds.... well... plumtious !!
Ian and I are extremely fortunate, we are two of the three people in Aberdeen still with an NHS dentist... that chap is worth his weight in National Insurance contributions, as far as we are concerned..... he is really good, trained in Dundee (a dental school where a lot of the best Dentists come from) and hails from Newcastle. Not that we have any intention of ever letting him leave Aberdeen. Nice looking lad, too ;)
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Maggi,
This is really a sad story - but it seems concerning health care Germany is on the same track.
Tony,
Dreaming of good looking women with gaps between the teeth? Incredible! ;)
Gerd
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In Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales" the "Wyffe of Bath" had a gap between her front teeth and this was considered very attractive and sexy........that was a gap, of course, not a chasm :-X
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::) interesting discussion for a dental technican ;D
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interesting discussion for a dental technican
Who is that?
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;D ;D ;D here ;D ;D ;D
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So! It is you? :o 8)
That work is every bit as important as the dentist.........and there is a shortage here also!
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Do you not remember ?
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=300.msg6939#msg6939
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Maggi,
Oh, my underdeveloped English!
I mean Tony with the teethproblems, not women of course.
Hans,
Go to England as a freelance dental allround man and you'll become rich - language will not be the problem - without teeth even the English will not be able to pronounce the tricky 'th', which is so difficult for us. ;)
Gerd
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Gerd ,
wonderful idea ;D
....and I could swap teeths against snowdrops and other interesting plants ::)
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Hans, no, I had forgotten that! I forget many things... mostly the names of my plants!
Hans,
Go to England as a freelance dental allround man and you'll become rich - language will not be the problem - without teeth even the English will not be able to pronounce the tricky 'th', which is so difficult for us.
Gerd
Gerd, a clever plan, but then Hans would spend the money to move to the land of the blue amaryllis, I think... and we would miss him.
I mean Tony with the teethproblems, not women of course.
OOPS!
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Ah..... Blue Amaryllis..... the good old Worsleya. My friend Lyn only 20 mins from here has one of those at flowering size...... but it is being recalcitrant at this stage. I was given a small plant in trade a few weeks ago, so one day I'll hopefully flower it. Just love the pics.
Sorry.... mind wandered from pests there. Hopefully no pests ever associated with Blue Amaryllis around here. ;D
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Maggi - no fear -I will not go to Brazil for Worsleya !
I have decided before some time not to cultivate this plants ( some is for Paramongaia and some other )
- I have not the rigth conditions to grow this plants ( special in winter time )
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Hans,
I really shouldn't be either, but even out of flower I just adore the look of the plant. The falcate leaves are just beautifully, the way they hang down. My front doorstep is frost free (just), and should be protected enough. Lyn's plant is on a second floor landing and absolutely thrives. Hopefully I can do mine justice as well. Mine is an offset, so although small shouldn't take as long to flower as it would a similar sized plant from seed. I am so stoked (that means approximately "rather pleased" in this context, for those who don't know the word) to have one. Hope I can do it justice.
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Paul ,
Yes -the problem is in winter - my greenhouse is to full and also to cool for this plants .
I try to collect more smaller plants with blue flowers like Griffinia 8)
Here in germany is it more or less not possibly to buy plants of Worsleya -the only way is sowing .....and with my growing conditions .....I should have a conservatory !
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But Hans, after a only a short time with the teeth in England you will have money for a large conservatory... or a house in the south of France!
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or maybe .... AND a house in the south of France? ;D
Here in Aus you can buy plants for a price (around $100 each, although less for seedlings a few years old) plus there is seed about to buy as well. Apparently we have quite a few growers of them, and we produce a lot of the seed that goes to other countries too.
Worsleyas can start producing offsets while still small, but apparently they can take a long time to actually produce roots on those offsets.
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Maggi - I always prefer more swap ...like such nice plants as "South Hayes" and some other ....
as you know we goes near every year to south of France - until today we prefer "camping" !
Paul - yes I know in Australia are now a lot of growers for Worsleya -I know it from yahoo Worsleya group .
I hope that this nice plants are more multiplicatet so the prices go down and more people can grow this plants .....for you is this all not a problem you are so much younger than I .....
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I regret to say that yesterday, while showing visitors round the garden I found a lily beetle on my fritillaria imperialis :'( :'(. Said beetle was duly despatched, but be warned!!
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Yikes! And with the weather we've been having lately, I thought/hoped that such critters would all be frozen or blown out to sea! :P
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I'm very unhappy to find so many Narcissus fly grubs today in G. fosteri, N. 'Bowles Early Sulphur' and N. asturiensis 'Wavertree'. Removing leaves early obviously isnt a deterrant
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Hi Mark,
the big maggots in your hand are excellent for trout fishing ;) :D ;D
(I'm not sure this really helps you to overcome your sadness.)
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I sure Mark has introduced them to some of his feathered friends? :P
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They were fed to the Robin that lives in the back garden who sang "more, more, more!"
Mentioning the Robin reminds me that last winter the Slovaks at work had never seen a Robin. Are they not common in Europe?
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Mentioning the Robin reminds me that last winter the Slovaks at work had never seen a Robin. Are they not common in Europe?
Mark, my wife Ivi says she never saw a robin in Slovakia in her entire life and was totally bemused by the plethora of Xmas cards sold in the UK with robins on them. Her Slovak bird field guidebook says that they do have robins living in woods and parks during Summer, but that they migrate to the Mediterranean for the (usualy very cold) Winter. I guess in Summer, without bright red breasts, they tend to be pretty inconspicuous little brown jobs, and aren't around in Winter to be more easily spotted with their characteristic male bright red breasts.
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Plenty of robins out here Mark ! 8)
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Thanks Martin. Luc are they shy or do they become tame?
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They look shy to me, not that I've tried to feed it or so, but we have one in the garden every Winter.
I've been told that it's the same one every time and that they stick to their territory.
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Luc is is very unlikely to be the same bird every year. Sorry to burst your bubble! Small birds dont live more than a year or two.
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We had a robin every year in winter in our working shed.
In the morning they were waiting till we opened the door and then came in.
When we were dividing perennial plants on a table, one or two came always sitting
on the edge looking for some worms, so we could easily feed them.
They were sitting at about 1 m. away from our hands.
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It seems a good time to go out at night with a torch and look for cutworms which seem very active on my cyclamen in the greenhouse at the moment. They can be devastating if not caught.
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Good idea, Tony! Two days ago I noticed that something has destroyed my dark wild Crocus medius.
Yesterday in the dark I took my flashlight and found two cutworms having dinner on my Crocus >:( >:(
Of course it was their last dinner ;D
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Luc is is very unlikely to be the same bird every year. Sorry to burst your bubble! Small birds dont live more than a year or two.
Mark,
I thought about this comment a few days ago when I was having a discussion with a local birder .... I hadn't realised that small birds in Europe were so short-lived. Some of the aussie birds are somewhat more robust it seems. We have something locally called a White-browed Scrub-wren (I also found out that none of our "wrens" actually are related to the real wrens, despite looking like them) which is a small bird that would fit in the palm of my hand and studies of wild birds have recorded individuals living up to 17 years (that I think is the longest lived record for a wild bird). Apparently a lot of our small birds can live for quite a long time, unlike similar birds in the northern hemisphere. I'm not sure I would have noted it so much, except that I recalled this comment by you last month. I'm so glad you made it, as it meant I noted something I quite possibly wouldn't have otherwise. Thought you might be interested to hear that some of our birds buck the trend! ;)