Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: TheOnionMan on January 14, 2014, 11:58:40 PM
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To kick-off the new oniony year, I'm posting Janis Ruksan's online Rare Bulbs Catalog link that starts with Allium; there are more great Allium here than you can shake a stick at... inducing great plant-lust torment.
http://rarebulbs.lv/index.php/en/catalogue (http://rarebulbs.lv/index.php/en/catalogue)
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hmm, I was looking through and now I can't get the page up, I get "Database connection error (2): Could not connect to MySQL."
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The link is still working for me, maybe it was down temporarily.
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We didn't had any winter this year, only a few days with a little frost in the nights.
allium seeds are coming out very good!
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Don't feel left out we had enough winter for you. Expecting 6-12inches of snow tonight.
The fields give hope that spring in on the way.
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Some pictures from last weekend. We had very nice weather last week!
spring is very early this year...3 weeks earlier than last year.
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some photo's from yesterday.....
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So much growth already!
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We had some very nice weather, and more is comming, next week expected temperatuur is 19oC!.
First allium is already flowering, as always allium paradoxum var normale is the first and allium zebdanense is comming soon....
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I have a clump of Allium paradoxum var normale which is very pretty but looks as if it might be invasive. Should it be in a pot?
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I have a clump of Allium paradoxum var normale which is very pretty but looks as if it might be invasive. Should it be in a pot?
Is it paradoxum with only flowers or are there also little bulb in the flowerhaed??
If there are only flowers, it will be no problem, but the one with bulbs is very invasive.
The true paradoxum van normale does not have any bulbs in the flower!
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Thank you, Wietse. I think I'm safe - no bulbs in the flower.
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Thank you, Wietse. I think I'm safe - no bulbs in the flower.
Yes, you have the real one , var normale.
It wil be no problem in your garden, but it can give some seeds.
If you want to be sure there will be no new bulbs from this, you can easy remove them before they fall on the ground.
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After a week of "summer" a lot has changed!
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and some more.......
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Wietse, may I ask why you grow the allium's in a "hill"? Better to harvest the bulbs ?
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Wietse, may I ask why you grow the allium's in a "hill"? Better to harvest the bulbs ?
we plant the alliums to "hills" because the weed control and weeding is easier that way. Also, the bulbs and plants are then standing in a drier soil, and rainwater can be drained easy, so the bulbs and plants less quickly rot .
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Thank you!
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They are far less than in Wietse fields but here are my Allium subhirsutum, 2nd year seedlings, in my garden as the background prove it ;D
[attach=1]
And Allium neapolitanum begins to bloom
[attach=2]
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They are far less than in Wietse fields but here are my Allium subhirsutum, 2nd year seedlings, in my garden as the background prove it ;D
.......But they look very nice!!
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some photo's from today
Allium austroiranicum (first time flowering with me....)
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Allium ursinum, wild garlic, growing in Loverswalk Wood, Goodnestone, Kent. Leaves make excellent soup, on the hob at the moment.
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Some photo's from today
allium candolleanum
allium zebdanense
allium woronowii
allium aschersonianum
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some more...
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photo from last year on the same day (today), after a very cold winter / spring!!
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Weitse, thanks for showing some marvelous Alliums; the flower form on A. aschersonianum is wonderful, and woronowii with black anthers has me lusting after such a fine form. But I was very pleased to see, for the first time, Allium candolleanum, particularly compared to A. zebdanese, as some older texts suggested candolleanum as a synonym of zebdanense, but the fine rounded heads on candolleanum show the difference between the two species... so happy to see candolleanum for the first time. What can you tell us about this plant, it's source, and how it has grown for you.
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Allium zebdanense has been many years in my possession, and I have ever bought something from a breeder. allium candolleanum I bought 2 or 3 years ago by Janis (1 bulb) The first year I thought it was just Allium zebdanense, two years ago there was a small party in a garden center left over, and they would take the biggest bulbs back next year. that restitution is cancelled, so I have planted all the bulbs again, and actually I'm very surprised by the clear difference with zebdanense this year! the bulbs of both types are almost equal, the color of the bulbs from candolleanum is slightly more orange-like, and there are slightly less smal ofsets with candoleanum. Further differences are clearly visible in the pictures (but not very big)
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some photos from today
allium elburzense
allium austroiranicum
allium chrysantherum
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Thank you, Wietse, for showing us these beautiful alliums. Congratulations with the new allium flowering season to you. Your alliums seem to be doing well in my garden. Almost all of them are above the ground now, with some showing flower buds. I long for their flowering time
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Thank you, Wietse, for showing us these beautiful alliums. Congratulations with the new allium flowering season to you. Your alliums seem to be doing well in my garden. Almost all of them are above the ground now, with some showing flower buds. I long for their flowering time
thank you for the compliments!
is everything going well with you?
I am very curious how the alliums grow and flourish with you!
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some photos from today, after very heavy rain yesterday!
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Allium bodeanum
Allium barsczewskii
and Allium zebdanense
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Some alliums flowering this week...
allium kharputense
allium pendulinum
allium colchicifolium
allium isakullii nuratense ( or is it allium cupuliferum)
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and some more
allium woronowii in different colours
allium subhirsutum
allium umbilicatum
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allium woronowii
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Allium akaka from seed, not as compact as in its Turkish habitat,
but better than nothing.
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Does anyone have any idea by any chance about an ID for my mislabelled allium sp?
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11705.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11705.0)
Pontus
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And can anyone identify this lost label Allium?
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Few Allium in flower today, some are more of a curiosity rather than showy
Allium cyprium, a rarity endemic to the Troodos Range.
Allium kollmannianum, endemic to the northern Negev, recently described.
Allium pictostamineum from Rhodes
Allium Sp. from Chios
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few more
Allium junceum from Cyprus
Allium pallens from Nazareth
Allium rubrovittatum from Crete
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Mark, any advice on the best kind of site for Allium insubricum?
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Last week I was (with family) on holiday / allium search on Zakynthos Greece.
It's still early in the year, but there were beautiful fields Allium nigrum in full bloom, and also several other bulbous plants in the wild
See attached pictures.
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Does anyone have any idea by any chance about an ID for my mislabelled allium sp?
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11705.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11705.0)
Pontus
I am sorry to say, but I find it very difficult to identify your allium from these photo,s.
There are so many that look like yours.......
Is it flowering already in february????....that is very early!
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And can anyone identify this lost label Allium?
also difficult to identify only by seeing the fower head...
how high is it?, how do the leaves look like?, how big is the flowerhead?....
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Allium carolianum
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Allium heldreichii MESE336
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Sorry Yann, but the photo labeled as Allium carolinianum (note spelling) is not correct. The true Allium carolinianum has closed bottle-like florets with stamens just squeezing through, not open florets as shown in your plant. I do not know what your plant is, would need to learn more about the plant characteristics, foliage, spathe, bulbs, etc. Here's a photo link showing a flower head on true Allium carolinianum:
https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/1558517_1433401643576323_5687501872821733892_n.jpg
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Hi Mark i also had a doubt, i got bulbs under that name
check this url :http://www.botanicus.nu/bildarkiv/?c=allium&context=bild&p=598
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I now remember the source of the bulbs: http://www.pcnijssen.nl/nl/home/127-Allium-carolinianum6.html (http://www.pcnijssen.nl/nl/home/127-Allium-carolinianum6.html)
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Hi Yann, the photo in the botanicis.nu web site looks correct, the photo on the pcnijssen.nl site is wrongly identified.
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Anyone know the name of the curly stemmed Allium that was shown on Chelsea last night?
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Anyone know the name of the curly stemmed Allium that was shown on Chelsea last night?
It's the Serpent Garlic - Allium sativum ophioscorodon
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thanks Maggi
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Mark : i've emailed Peter, waiting his anwer....
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The fabulous allium Elegans from Kyrgystan bears its name well! the quite large (7-8 cm's across umbel) of light skye blue flowers has just begun opening here..almost looking like a small brunsvigia!
last year the flowerbud got munched off by a snail, so this year I quarantined teh pot on my balcony checking on it everyday for possible pests and diseases!..a long, but well worth whait to see it finally in bloom a year later!! :)
Pontus
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Very elegant indeed, :D
cheers
fermi
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The first allium from Wietse began flowering - Allium decipiens. & more have shown their buds. Thank you, Wietse.
And the old dwellers in my garden Allium umbilicatum and Allium bodeanum grown from seed of a single bulb I lost some years ago
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Excellent Oleg - so, it begins to feel like summer now ? 8)
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Absolutely, Maggi. Thank you. We have been hit here by heat since mid May with temperature records typical of July. And now it's time for alliums and ornithogallums.
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I hadn't realised this Allium event was happening at RHS Wisley until I saw this tweeted by Curator Colin Crosbie -
"Great range of Alliums on display @RHSWisley today - Allium Study Day, plus unusual species with spiky hair and brolly! "
[attachimg=1]
Wisley : onions on display with Matthew Pottage ;)
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That Mr Bean gets everywhere! :o
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Anybody grow Allium hypsistum or A. przewalskianum just curious as they are using in Nepali cooking.
Already thinking about lunch
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A digression prompted bu Alan's query......
Mark McD. grows A. przewalskianum - and in one post (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg160120#msg160120)he mentions that on FOC two pix supposed to be of A. forestii are in fact of A. przewalskianum -
The Flora of China entry on A. forrestii has added 5 photo links as part of the "Photos by The Biodiversity of the Hengduan Mountains Project". There are contributions by two photographers, Susan Kelley and David Boufford.
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200027479 (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200027479)
Please Note: 2 of the 5 FOC photos of A. forrestii are incorrectly identified! Photos 2 & 3 by David Boufford look correct, and closely resemble your plant... it shows a distinctly red color flower. Photos 1 & 4 by Susan Kelley are incorrect, they show an Allium species with pinched flowers and long exserted stamens (stamens are not exserted in A. forrestii), and based on exserted stamens that reflex outwards, it is most likely A. przewalskianum, or even a depauperate form of A. carolinianum that also shows such stamen characteristics. Photo 5 looks closer to A. forrestii in a lighter pinkish-purple color.
And here - http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Allium/Allium_profiles_4.jpg (http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Allium/Allium_profiles_4.jpg) iss a photo of Mark's that shows A. przewalskianum as #"E"
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Alan - this may interest you too : http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg167762#msg167762 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg167762#msg167762)
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Can any one help me identify this Allium. I found it growing in a garden in damp semi shade last July. It stands about 30cm high and has leaves similar to A. sphaerocephalon. The owner of the garden let me have a couple of bulbs which are now happily growing in my garden.
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I've got another Allium query to add to Jackie's ( in the previous post)
What might this be? Found the question posed in the twitter page of RV Roger :)
[attachimg=1]
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Can any one help me identify this Allium. I found it growing in a garden in damp semi shade last July. It stands about 30cm high and has leaves similar to A. sphaerocephalon. The owner of the garden let me have a couple of bulbs which are now happily growing in my garden.
Perhaps Allium carinatum pulchellum :-\
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Can any one help me identify this Allium. I found it growing in a garden in damp semi shade last July. It stands about 30cm high and has leaves similar to A. sphaerocephalon. The owner of the garden let me have a couple of bulbs which are now happily growing in my garden.
I would say a good floriferous form of Allium vineale
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I would say a good floriferous form of Allium vineale
Great eyes, Oron - I only see the bulbils now! ( and I did get new spectacles..... ::) )
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;D
I think the second one is A. bolanderi
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Can any one help me identify this Allium. I found it growing in a garden in damp semi shade last July. It stands about 30cm high and has leaves similar to A. sphaerocephalon. The owner of the garden let me have a couple of bulbs which are now happily growing in my garden.
Definitely not Allium carinatum ssp. pulchellum. I am intrigued by Oron's suggestion of a good floriferous form of A. vineale, but if so...WOW, never have seen a form of vineale that floriferous with so many flowers, thus ny doubts. I have seen forms of A. vineale that have more flowers than bulbils percentage-wise, but none like that. On first glance, it appeared to me as a lax (perhaps immature) form of A. ampeloprasum, or one of a dozen closely related species once considered a variety or subspecies of ampeloprasum. A photo of the foliage would help considerably, as vineale and ampeloprasum-et-al have drastically different foliage.
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here is my unknown allium when in full bloom...about 25 cm's tall, and tubular greygreen leaves...
any thoughts about ID? maybe acutiflorum?
Pontus
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Allium acutiflorum
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I noticed this Allium on Mt. Emei, Sichuan at mid-elevation, always cultivated. It is quite a large plant about 40 cm high with wide conduplicate leaves. I suppose it could be Allium omeiense. From the species listed in the Plants of Mount Emei book I don't see what else it could be?
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more likely, a form of A. oleraceum, closely allied and similar to Allium paniculatum, but with bulbils and rather variable in flower color, from light pink, to deeper pinks, to tawny brownish coppery forms
A year and 10 months on the first bulbils have reached flowering size. They are in the green house plunged in a terracotta put and despite watering the plants have chosen to go dormant except for the flower stems. Should I keep watering them? They'll have to be moved to a trough once they go dormant.
Mid August flowering when I got the bulbils but flowers are now opening in the greenhouse
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Not the best photos - Allium oleraceum. Amazing how bulbils are already present when the flower bud bursts
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Is this Allium caesium? I managed to lose all the bulbs of Allium I bought this year - this was from AGS seed and for some reason I thought this would not be caesium so I put it in a frame thnking it was a weedy one. I would have had several flower heads but slugs and snails have reduced that to one head and that fell over.
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Definitely not Allium carinatum ssp. pulchellum. I am intrigued by Oron's suggestion of a good floriferous form of A. vineale, but if so...WOW, never have seen a form of vineale that floriferous with so many flowers, thus ny doubts. I have seen forms of A. vineale that have more flowers than bulbils percentage-wise, but none like that. On first glance, it appeared to me as a lax (perhaps immature) form of A. ampeloprasum, or one of a dozen closely related species once considered a variety or subspecies of ampeloprasum. A photo of the foliage would help considerably, as vineale and ampeloprasum-et-al have drastically different foliage.
Hi, it is not an ampeloprasm the leaves do look like A. vineale. I had originally though it was A. vineale with flowers but then thought that wasn't possible. I have it planted next to Allium Hair and the leaves do look the same. I have just had a look at it and it is still in tight bud and can't wait to see if it does the same this year. I took the seed from the flower head last summer, I really must sow it, its in the fridge at the moment.
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Hair we go again ;D
It might be worth revisiting the Allium 'Hair' mystery from back in 2010, where plants labeled 'Hair" are mostly unattributed as to species, but when assigned a species, it's a muddle, mostly split between vineale, sphaerocephalon, and a couple other species thrown in.
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg161699#msg161699 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg161699#msg161699)
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg163893#msg163893 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg163893#msg163893)
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg164118#msg164118 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg164118#msg164118)
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Hair we go again ;D
It might be worth revisiting the Allium 'Hair' mystery from back in 2010, where plants labeled 'Hair" are mostly unattributed as to species, but when assigned a species, it's a muddle, mostly split between vineale, sphaerocephalon, and a couple other species thrown in.
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg161699#msg161699 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg161699#msg161699)
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg163893#msg163893 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg163893#msg163893)
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg164118#msg164118 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg164118#msg164118)
Hi Mark, thanks for the links to Allium 2010 they were very interesting especially the last one.
The picture posted of A. vineale Hair by Stephb looked very similar to my unknown Allium.
I am running some Allium trials up at my allotment and it includes A. sphaerocephalon, A. Hair and A. unknown. I also have A.vineale in my garden (not put there by me) but will explain about that in a minute. Of the 3 bulbs of A. unknown 2 have turned into A. Hair and the 3rd is going to flower. I have compared the bulbs, scapes, leaves and flowerheads of all 4 types and think A. Hair and unknown are related to A. vineale and not sphaerocephalon for the following reasons
- the scape is shorter and the leaves finish lower on A. sphaerocephalon.
- At so called flowering time A. vineale, Hair and unknown the leaves have completeing gone but sphaerocephelon are still green and presentable.
- A. sphaerocephalon flower head is conical and the others are round.
I have another reason for thinking Hair is related to A. vineale. My husband bought Hair in 2003 ( he is great with dates but not his taste in Alliums) when it first came out. A year or so after it 'flowered' I noticed A. vineale had arrived in the garden when we had never had it before. I have only just connected the two but it could be a coincidence I suppose.
What do you think?
Going back to my unknown Allium I wonder if it has flowers when in damp semi shade and 'hair' in full sun, will investigate further and see how they are doing in the garden I got them from.
Thanks for your help.
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can anyone help with my query a few posts up? The Allium ceasium? pic.
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can anyone help with my query a few posts up? The Allium ceasium? pic.
It looks like some form of allium caesium to me.....
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some photo's from today
allium sikkemense
allium kunthianum
allium parnassicum
allium hirtovaginum
allium lacunosum
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some more
allium stendon
allium ampeloprasum X
allium ampeloprasum X
allium blue??
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and some views..
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thanks Wim!
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Fantastic alliums as usual, Wietse. I will send you a personal message of how your alliums are doing here in Moscow.
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Wietse, wonderful Alliums as usual, the photos of Allium ampeloprasum are exquisite. Good to see Aliium stenodon too, and the blue Allium (unknown) looks like a very fine form of A. sikkimense.
The one labeled Allium hirtovaginatum is most likely a misnomer, A. hirtovaginatum (previously A. cupanii ssp. hirtovaginatum) is a few-flowered whitish species with pinkish nerves, not sure what the identity is of the floriferous red-flowered plant you show.
http://luirig.altervista.org/flora/taxa/index1.php?scientific-name=allium+hirtovaginatum (http://luirig.altervista.org/flora/taxa/index1.php?scientific-name=allium+hirtovaginatum)
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Here are two of my alliums that are flowering at the moment.
A. cernuum and
A. Eros -does anyone know its parentage, it looks like A. unifolium to me but I expect I am wrong.
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I believe Eros is just a selection of Allium unifolium.
http://www.waitrosegarden.com/plants/_/allium-eros-pbr/classid.2000025384/ (http://www.waitrosegarden.com/plants/_/allium-eros-pbr/classid.2000025384/)
This originated from the Nursery De Schüllhorn:
http://kwekerijdeschullhorn.nl/?page_id=103&lang=en (http://kwekerijdeschullhorn.nl/?page_id=103&lang=en)
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Thanks Mark, amazing knowledge.
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Allium ramosum in flower now, sweetly fragrant heads of white bloom on 30" (75cm) stems. Been showing up on Facebook plant groups mislabeled. The flowers are striped red on the outside.
Second one is Allium narcissiflorum; I have two clumps about the same size, only one is blooming. After many years, finally found a half sun/half shade spot that it likes.
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Allium ameloprasum var. babingtonii is a mighty impressive plant at over two metres tall!
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1. Allium ramosum
2. Seed grown allium which doesn't match the label. Any chance for it to be identified?
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2. Seed grown allium which doesn't match the label. Any chance for it to be identified?
It looks a bit like Allium saxatile - but how tall is it? Is the foliage still present when the flowers open? How wide across is the flower head? Is it in flower now? Does it have a distinct bulb or just swollen stem bases (like chives)? Answers to these questions would help identify it,
cheers
fermi
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Thank you for help, Fermi. The plant is appr. 30 cm tall. Foliage is present during flowering. Leaves are placed alternatively in the lower third of the stem so the plant looks as if flat. It is the end of the flowering time now. I/m not sure about the bulb but the allium doesn't look having swollen stem bases like chives. The stem is rather wiry so I think the bulb should be somewhat like allium rotundum or this kind. Thanks again.
Oleg
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Hi Oleg, your unknown Allium does not have stamens as prominently long and exserted as typically seed in A. saxatile, so it doesn't strike me as that species. Photo is a bit blurry, and, would like to see photo of foliage and possibly even a bulb, but it reminds me of Allium strictum or lineare, or one of the many similar species in that clan.
What was it mislabeled as?
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Last year I was revamping parts of my old Allium garden that has fallen into terrible disrepair and weed infestation (looking like a tall grass prairie), moving plants to a new area after removing all soil and inspecting for full removal of weed roots. I lost some stock of Allium cernuum 'Wall of Pink', a fine exceptionally vigorous form growing nearly 2-1/2' (75 cm) with beautifully formed heads. The move has suited the plants and they have come back strong to make a grand show.
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McMark, that is a VERY attractive pink onion - and a pretty picture too. 8)
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Similarly, I've been plucking out lots and lots of Allium flavum var. tauricum forms from the high grass, a miracle these little plants were able to survive and compete for very long, indeed I have lost some diversity and excellent color forms. Once moved to a new home (clear sandy bed), they have sprung back in force and looking bright and colorful for all of July. I'm going to post photos of a number of color forms; they're mostly rather subtle, deserving of close inspection, I love them all.
1. season starts beginning of July, young bulbs in front showing some variability
2. lovely soft pink color
3. good reddish-orange one, dang rabbits cut off 5 of 6 stems, this is the only one left to flower, then they nipped that one too.
4. my best red form
Addendum: thank you Maggie, that cernuum reminds me of cotton candy (candy floss in Europe).
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Some more portraits of Allium flavum var. tauricum colors forms in my garden.
1. a subdued dulled pink, with bright pink stamens and open bell-shape to the florets.
2. I'm happy to have 1 white form, a rare color for flavum tauricum forms, used to have a dwarf clear white, but no longer.
3. bright pink form, with some orange ones in the background.
4. my best red (deep rose-red) at later anthesis, they typically color up strongly once flowered are fertilized.
5. pastel melon color
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The range of colour in the tauricum is a surprise to me - had no ideathey could make those soft shades. Lovely 8)
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Hello everyone,
Could someone please help me ID this allium sp, found in Sweden this summer growing in a ditch by the roadside, in almost pure sand, by the coast?
it is quite tall, about 130 cm's, thick stems, with loose heads of pink flowers with alot of dark bulbils forming in the flowerhead,
Pontus
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Pontus it looks like Allium ampeloprasum var. babingtonii, widely naturalised across northern Europe.
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If the leaves are flat and keeled (like a leek), I was going to suggest that it's the sand leek, Allium scorodoprasum, which occurs throughout Europe, including the UK: http://www.british-wild-flowers.co.uk/L-Flowers/Leek,%20Sand.htm (http://www.british-wild-flowers.co.uk/L-Flowers/Leek,%20Sand.htm)
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I think you're right Matt, given the dark bulbils, and also it's more likely in Sweden.
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Checking Rose, The Wildflower Key, A. ampeloprasum (including v. babingtonii) has flowers on short stems with the style protruding and stamens just slightly. A. scorodoprasum has flowers on long stems and stamens (and style) enclosed within the flower.
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In flower today:
Allium species - cw Gang-ho-ba, Lijang, China3450m to 70cm, in screes - id'ed by Afloden as prattii, identified by Mark McDonough as Allium ovalifolium var. leuconeurum.
ACE94-2394
johnw
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Very nice John, it's a lovely Allium, such nice foliage, and late blooming to boot.
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A. sikkimense or beesiana: help please
I bought this plant at a SRGC plant stall last year as Allium beesiana and posted a picture of it under that name on 9th August on the 'August 2014 in the Northern hemisphere' thread. Since then, I have done some reading on the Internet and gather that there is a lot of misnaming of small blue alliums.
The main alternatives seeems to be A. cyaneum and A. sikkimense. Ruled out A. cyaneum as the stamens are too short. Have read that in A. beesianum the tepals are 11-14 mm while in A. sikkimense they are 6-10 mm. (I am such a novice that tepal was a new word to me!) My plant has tepals that are 10mm long. Is the division between the two species so precise that 10mm means A.sikkimense and 11 mm means A. beesianum? The height of the flowering stems varies between 23 and 33 cms.
The attached pictures were taken today.
Bob
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Here are two of my alliums that are flowering at the moment.
A. cernuum and
A. Eros -does anyone know its parentage, it looks like A. unifolium to me but I expect I am wrong.
Dear Jackie , we got Allium Eros in 2000 from Wayne Roderick sinds then we raised it and got growing rights for the Netherlands.
Wayne did not tell me where it came from but I think Mark is right with the selection of A .unifolium, the difference between them is , A. unifolium is pale pink and the flower petals are round, A. Eros is deep pink and the petals are pointed ,
It is a very good garden plant and available in big quantity .
Wim
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A. sikkimense or beesiana: help please
I bought this plant at a SRGC plant stall last year as Allium beesiana and posted a picture of it under that name on 9th August on the 'August 2014 in the Northern hemisphere' thread. Since then, I have done some reading on the Internet and gather that there is a lot of misnaming of small blue alliums.
The main alternatives seeems to be A. cyaneum and A. sikkimense. Ruled out A. cyaneum as the stamens are too short. Have read that in A. beesianum the tepals are 11-14 mm while in A. sikkimense they are 6-10 mm. (I am such a novice that tepal was a new word to me!) My plant has tepals that are 10mm long. Is the division between the two species so precise that 10mm means A.sikkimense and 11 mm means A. beesianum? The height of the flowering stems varies between 23 and 33 cms.
The attached pictures were taken today.
Bob
Hi Bob,
The subject of ID'ing blue Allium came up in the Bulb Log recently, and I found a lot of advice in the 2010 and 2011 threads: http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=6685.msg208737#msg208737 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=6685.msg208737#msg208737) Although, most discussion relates to determining the true A. cyaneum, which you've already ruled out, rather than distinguishing A. beesianum from A. sikkimense.
Maybe this key will help you: http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=101086#KEY-1-63 (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=101086#KEY-1-63)
A. beesianum: "Perianth segments narrowly oblong to narrowly ovate-oblong, 11-14(-17) mm, margin entire; filaments usually ca. 4/5 as long as perianth segments; style usually 2-3 × as long as ovary."
A. sikkimense: "Perianth segments obtuse at apex, inner ones longer and wider than outer, only inner ones irregularly denticulate at margin; leaves flat."
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A. beesianum or A. sikkimense
Thanks Matt for your response. I had looked at the recent Bulb Log and earlier threads on the forum which is why A. cyaneum was ruled out. Looked again at your Flora of China link and tried harder this time to try and understand it. (I am a retired scientist, but not a botanist.)
Looked again at the plant: the tepals are not obtuse at apex and are not denticulate. That supports A. beesianum. However they are only 10mm long! So my temporary conclusion is that the 10mm - 11mm distinction is over precise.
Another thought is that, as both A. beesianum and A. sikkimense have been grown in gardens for some time, has that possibly resulted in hybrids between the two?
Are you going to Dunblane on Saturday?
Thanks again
Bob
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Size (and colour) as a characteristic in plants may vary with environmental conditions, even outwith the 'typical' range. Whilst features such as denticulate vs. entire margins, the shape of structures etc do not tend to vary as much and can be more reliable characteristics. The first pic in this post shows the denticulate margin of A. sikkimense nicely: http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg160086#msg160086 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg160086#msg160086) Non-obtuse tepals with entire margins would suggest A. beesianum.
At 63 + in the key, it states: "Perianth segments ovate or ovate-oblong, 6--10 mm, at least margin of inner ones irregularly denticulate; filaments usually 1/2--2/3 as long as perianth segments; style shorter than or subequaling ovary." Is the style of your plant longer (A. beesianum) or shorter (A. sikkimense) than the ovary? This might help sway you either way.
Having now looked at a lot of pictures of small blue alliums on various Forum pages, the overall impression of the plant in your pics is more suggestive of A.sikkimense to me. Sometimes you get fixed on a particular detail, but then step back and take a fresh look at the whole plant. Obviously, I don't have the real thing in front of me...and as you say, a hybrid could confuse the picture.
Ain't plants great? ID conundrums like this are a great opportunity to learn more about plants you haven't really looked at all that closely before! ;D
I had planned on coming to Dunblane, but the spiralling cost of public transport means I won't make it now, which is a great shame as I would have loved to hear Olga's talks. However, I will be at the Late Bulb and Discussion Weekend :)
Cheers,
M
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Here is my A.sikkimense ... but if it's the real thing is another matter?
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Here is my A.sikkimense ... but if it's the real thing is another matter?
I am not an Allium expert, but this looks like it could be A. yuanum - based on the acuminate tips to the tepals (those in A.sikkimense are obtuse/blunt) and the fact that the outer and inner tepals are equal in length and denticulate...
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=101086#KEY-1-64
(http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=101086#KEY-1-64)
A very pretty plant. :)
I'm adding all these small blues to my SeedEx order this year...but who knows what they'll turn out to be ;D
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Hi Matt
Yes, it's a very pretty looking plant with very narrow foliage - came to me from Edrom. Hope to get seeds this year if the today's strong winds haven't destroyed it. This is their Allium SSSE250 ... I forgot to dig this one up when we moved :(
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This is their Allium SSSE250 ... I forgot to dig this one up when we moved :(
Hard to see for sure from the photo, but appears to have blunt tepals with the inner ones only denticulate and the stigma looks to be shorter than the ovary ... this could be the real A. sikkimense?? Apparently it is a variable species with several forms in cultivation.
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I do love these blue allium.
This may be of interest : members of the SSSE ( standing for Sino Scottish Swedish expediton I think!)were Ron Mcbeath Jens Nielson, Lars Danialson from Sweden and Ian Christie. :)
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Could SSSE be Sino-Scottish Szechuan expedition? :)
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Could SSSE be Sino-Scottish Szechuan expedition? :)
Probably, Matt! Ian Christie will be able to tell us when he spots this.
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At 63 + in the key, it states: "Perianth segments ovate or ovate-oblong, 6--10 mm, at least margin of inner ones irregularly denticulate; filaments usually 1/2--2/3 as long as perianth segments; style shorter than or subequaling ovary." Is the style of your plant longer (A. beesianum) or shorter (A. sikkimense) than the ovary? This might help sway you either way.
Hi Matt
The style is a lot longer than the ovary, so another pointer to A. beesianum. Thanks a lot for your help, it was really useful for you to highlight the points for me to to focus on. Also, doing the checking, has greatly improved my lousy botanical knowledge.
Bob
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Hard to see for sure from the photo, but appears to have blunt tepals with the inner ones only denticulate and the stigma looks to be shorter than the ovary ... this could be the real A. sikkimense?? Apparently it is a variable species with several forms in cultivation.
That's what I was thinking Matt!? Just looked through my old photo's but I'm afraid I don't have any other clearer ones.
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That's what I was thinking Matt!? Just looked through my old photo's but I'm afraid I don't have any other clearer ones.
I think your existing pics probably allow a reasonable level of confidence in going with ID of A.sikkimense. Clearly, it has blunt tepals compared to the long pointy ones of your other plant (tentative A.yuanum).
In this pic I've marked a flower to show the outer tepals with green arrows, with entire margins. Of the inner tepals marked in red, those I've labelled 1 and 2 are clearly denticulate.
[attachimg=1]
We need to guess a bit as to where the base of the ovary may be, but assuming it is a long as it is wide, the stigma (green) would be slightly shorter than the ovary (red) in this pic. In any case, it is definitely not 2 - 3 times as long as it would be in A.beesianum.
[attachimg=2]
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Hi Matt
Thank you for your efforts in trying to sort out the ID of these two. I shall post you some seeds of my A.sikkimense (A.yuanum) in due course (have your address on file from seed order).
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Thank you Lisa, that's very kind!
I enjoy these little puzzles, and now know what to look for when identifying small blue onions so it's a useful learning exercise :)
Best wishes.
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My last Allium to flower A.hookeri ACE2430
Hardly a showstopper but nice in its own way!
[attachimg=1]
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I have had this Allium for many years. It is about 50 cm tall, flowering here in North Norway in the end of june. The label is long gone, so, suggestion for a name anyone? Please. Magnar.
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Magnar,
Looks like A. zebdanense
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This Allium originates from Liguria/Italy - I found one corm flowering in October and thought
it might be Allium carinatum ssp pulchellum, which I had lost months ago. But A. carinatum is
flowering in summer while this one flowers in autumn even after two years in my garden.
Mark McD thought it might be an aberration, but it might also be a new Allium species.
Many of these autumn flowering plants were new described in the last months.
Maybe you have some new information now....
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Thomas
Difficult to see details such as leaves, bulb etc., still
looks to me like A. carinatum pulchellum syn.Allium coloratum
It is reported in Italy as flowering till September.
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Hmm, very nice onion - but you need to beware that BIG snail - he looks hungry....... :o ::) ;)
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Hi Oron, thanks for your opinion - will try to make a photo of the leaves this evening.....
Found Allium coloratum in the Flora Italia (http://luirig.altervista.org/schedeit/ae/allium_coloratum.htm (http://luirig.altervista.org/schedeit/ae/allium_coloratum.htm))
the flowers really look alike, but its still the flowering time that makes me doubtful (June-September)
my plant had colour until December last year....
Maggi no danger from the snail - it's a gentle one ;)
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Flora Italia (http://luirig.altervista.org/schedeit/ae/allium_coloratum.htm (http://luirig.altervista.org/schedeit/ae/allium_coloratum.htm))
Hi Thomas,
Most interesting link - not only for the onions ;)
- thank you for showing it!
Gerd
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Allium sacculiferum, blooming now in heavy damp clay soil.
this on came as Allium thunbergii DJH 272, it is taller and more globe like.
someone told me it was A. sacculiferum
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Maybe it was me that told you, this is a collection by Dan Hinkley, which I believe keys to sacculiferum. Mine is in bloom now too, it's one of the best.
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The Allium sacculiferum DJH 272 is one of my favorites too
Mark, What is the white or yellow allium in back behind it in your first photo?
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Rimmer, its an "alba" form of thunbergii, they open pure white. Here are both thunbergii alba and sacculiferum from 2012 and closeup of white thunbergii from 2013.
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Does anyone grow or have photos of
Allium atrosanguineum
Allium fetisowii
Allium tulipaefolium
Thanks
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I don't grow any of those three, but here are some links:
Allium atrosanguineum (scroll down for 2 photos)
http://www.growsonyou.com/AndrewR/blog/24230-kazakhstan-revisited-5-old-friends (http://www.growsonyou.com/AndrewR/blog/24230-kazakhstan-revisited-5-old-friends)
FLORA OF KAZAKHSTAN,scroll down for a photo, see photos of many wonderful plants
http://www.track.kz/flora.htm (http://www.track.kz/flora.htm)
Allium fetisowii
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/10021.html (http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/10021.html)
Allium tulipaefolium
http://savesteppe.org/wp-content/gallery/photo2/kz10.jpg (http://savesteppe.org/wp-content/gallery/photo2/kz10.jpg)
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Plantarium is a precious database for eastern plants
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I don't grow any of those three, but here are some links:
Allium atrosanguineum (scroll down for 2 photos)
http://www.growsonyou.com/AndrewR/blog/24230-kazakhstan-revisited-5-old-friends (http://www.growsonyou.com/AndrewR/blog/24230-kazakhstan-revisited-5-old-friends)
FLORA OF KAZAKHSTAN,scroll down for a photo, see photos of many wonderful plants
http://www.track.kz/flora.htm (http://www.track.kz/flora.htm)
Allium fetisowii
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/10021.html (http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/10021.html)
Allium tulipaefolium
http://savesteppe.org/wp-content/gallery/photo2/kz10.jpg (http://savesteppe.org/wp-content/gallery/photo2/kz10.jpg)
Mark,
I love the photo of Allium atrosanguineum do you know if it is difficult to grow?
Jackie
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Allium drummondii (syn nuttallii) from seed from Kurt Vickery a number of years ago.
Just starting to flower, but a friend I gave some bulbs to last summer had them in full bloom (and much bigger!) 2 weeks ago,
cheers
fermi
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Fermi, really lovely Allium, nice photo showing the detail. I've tried this from seed and from bulbs sent to me by Thad Howard (the name behind many bulbous "howardii" N.American plants). Unforntunately never got the bulbs to last more than 2 years. Thad sent me some color forms, including a deep red one, it was striking.
Apparently, in a small part of western Texas, the range of Allium drummondii and the only yellow-flowered North American Allium coryi overlap, hybrids occur. The photo below is a scan of drawings Thad made, showing color variations of the species and hybrids.
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I grow Allium atrosanguineum...here are some pictures I posted a while back: http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10020.msg280688#msg280688 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10020.msg280688#msg280688)
It has never produced any seed :(
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Stephen it is such a shame that your A. atrosanguinium hasn't flowered.
I wonder if anyone has any idea what is going on with a few of my Alliums. A while ago I posted an Allium that I couldn't name and I planted next to it what was supposed to be A. Hair but definitely isn't and yes it really is that dark plummy purple. It looks similar to my unknown Allium but not the same. I planted 3 Allium Hair and they all looked like this and flowered mid to end of July.
Jackie
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Hi Again
Have added another photo that will hopefully be a bit bigger. Technology has got the better of me!
Jackie
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The bulbs of Allium peninsulare from Marcus Harvey have flowered again this year,
cheers
fermi
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Fermi that A. peninsulare is lovely, such a dark plum colour. I put it on my seed list for next year.
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Jamus,
sadly I managed to lose all the seedlings I had last year but hope to get some seed this year.
Here's the common but pretty Allium unifolium,
cheers
fermi
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Allium thunbergii 'Ogawa-nishiki'. Found and collected in its wild habitat at Hirado-jima (Hirado island), Nagasaki, Japan.
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Allium thunbergii 'Ogawa-nishiki'. Found and collected in its wild habitat at Hirado-jima (Hirado island), Nagasaki, Japan.
Beautiful, Tatsuo! Very delicate flower with nice colouring!
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Thank you, Wim!
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I agree Wim! Tatsuo, indeed a lovely form of thunbergii, and beautiful photographs too.
In full bloom now if Allium kiiense (syn. A. virgunculae var. kiiense), another autumn-blooming delight.
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Your another Japanese native one made a good bunch, Mark ;)
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Your another Japanese native one made a good bunch, Mark ;)
Tatsuo, I had to keep this nice colony of Allium kiiense surrounded with a wire fence, the rabbits here love to eat onions. I take the fence off for photographs or to enjoy the view when I'm outside working.
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I agree Wim! Tatsuo, indeed a lovely form of thunbergii, and beautiful photographs too.
In full bloom now if Allium kiiense (syn. A. virgunculae var. kiiense), another autumn-blooming delight.
Nice group, Mark. Beautiful plants too, have to look into those Japanese Alliums some more it seems.
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Nice group, Mark. Beautiful plants too, have to look into those Japanese Alliums some more it seems.
Thanks Wim, the plants look pretty much the same today, still in full flower, although a cold rainy day about 3C. Last year didn't get seed, serious freezing whether arrived early November and stayed. Not sure if this one can set seed here, it flowers so late.
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My Allium caeruleum has produced bubils for the past 2 years, instead of flowers. Is there a way to force them to flower? I've been growing them in pots in a free draining mix. I've read they like a dry, warm position but then members here have said they grow them in moist conditions. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Just reading this, Jon, it strikes me that the plants may be under stress in pot culture and so going into maximum reproduction mode, so making the bulbils instead of flowers. I'll be interested to hear what the Onion specialists think.