Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Alpines => Topic started by: Egon27 on December 15, 2013, 08:08:46 PM
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This is Pulsatilla 'Anna Zachar' - my own select. The flowers are sterile. Reproduction only by division.
Egon
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That's an interesting flower - double - but not too double ..... :) and a fine colour.
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wow what a find! When its available let me know.
Do you take root cuttings?
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One of the better i'v seen congrat. :-) //Jonny
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It's beautiful, congratulations.
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Pulsatilla 'Anna Zachar' I multiply by division of old plants and cut into thick roots. I have done several adult plants. I am happy to mention the other interesting plants.
Egon
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Egon it is extremely interesting because it shows totally new kind of Pulsatilla. Something like Hepatica kinds.
Have you ever tried to sow seeds? What is the result? It should give interesting children.
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Hello Olga,
Pulsatilla 'Anna Zahar' is sterile. I never gave seeds. Multiply it by division.
Greetings
Egon
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Hi Egon,
What do you think we're the parents of this lovely hybrid?
cheers
fermi
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Hi Fermi,
The first seedling of the Pulsatilla 'Anna Zachar' I found in my garden. Is so I'm a parent? You have sown much seed it is hoped that there will be a mutant.
Egon
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Forthcoming Pulsatilla Book :
Christopher Grey Wilson has decided to self-publish his new title "Pasque-Flowers" - to see details click here (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=248.msg290138#msg290138)
[attachimg=1]
PASQUE-FLOWERS
The Genus Pulsatilla
A Guide for Gardeners, Horticulturists and Botanists - front cover
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This P. Rhodopaea has me intrigued. Grown from seed 2yrs ago and this year looks set to give a good display. Will post photo when it flowers to have the critics tell me whether it's true...[attach=1]
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Just ordered mine. I hope there are some still available
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Books are still available ;D
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I received my book last week. Very much useful information and quite a few types I did not know before.
Quality of pictures vary - but on the other hand a not so good picture is better than nothing.
The only thing to criticize: distribution in Austria (grandis, vulgaris, pratensis nigricans) is not correct - so what about the range in other, more remote countries?
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I received my book last week. Very much useful information and quite a few types I did not know before.
Quality of pictures vary - but on the other hand a not so good picture is better than nothing.
The only thing to criticize: distribution in Austria (grandis, vulgaris, pratensis nigricans) is not correct - so what about the range in other, more remote countries?
Herbert,
You cannot expect correct distribution information in a publication which merely summarizes data
from different sources. Different sources use different taxonomical views, and so
Pulsatilla vulgaris in one may be Pulsatilla grandis in the other. Florists should always
use the finest taxonomic division possible. But the converse is fashion in nowadays
publications. One Austrian taxonomist wrote to me that there is much idiocy
in contemporary botany, and not solely in botany. I agree.
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I must have bought this from a members stall P. rhodopaea, just emerging. It's looking promising. Posted elsewhere the other day not realising this thread was here...
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It's hard not to think of that as something else, non-plant. It almost looks like a Tribble from the Star Trek episode, "The Trouble With Tribbles"?!
Look forward to seeing it in bloom.
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Are you older than you look, Matt - or have you been watching re-runs? ;D
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I do believe I might be blushing! :)
When I was a nipper there was nothing on TV but Star Trek re-runs! Week day evenings, weekends, back to back Star Trek, and then The Next Generation, but I was off to college and without a TV shortly after Voyager came along, which was as well because it wasn't as good.
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I'm hoping it is true. I'll post again when it opens for the experts to critique...
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Yesterday Pulsatilla halleri slavica opened its flowers, the earliest date in spring since I raised this
plant 15 years ago from seed. In comparison to former years the amount of flowers is
poorer than in the years before, maybe a sign of age.
Beside the actual photo are pictures from 2012.
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Starting to show some colour now. Having invested in Mr Grey-Wilson's book now, I realise it's name is P. halleri rhodopaea anyway it is still something I'm watching every day now...
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Are the flowers close Chris? I love these "balls" of fluffy stuff. :D
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They are Lesley. I've realised this is a duplicate post so hope Maggi will move into the other one please... I'm anxiously awaiting the flowers to open but they look magic in bud....
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I am looking forward to see your Pulsatilla halleri rhodopaea in full flower Christine. Mine is still a young plant I put outside last year.
Fantastic show of the Pulsatilla halleri slavica in 2012 Rudi.
Pulsatilla grandis 'Budapest' seedling flowering early this year. The seedlings are quite variable. This one has flowers with 7 petals this year and last year. Two views of the same plant.
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Chris grey Wilson wrote a great book on cyclamen a while back, I wish he would update it.
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Love your Budapest Seedlings Cyril. I'm still trying to get seed that comes true!
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Our local type of Pulsatilla in Upper Austria - it is said to be a transition from grandis to vulgaris
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Here's my P. halleri ssp rhodopaea finally flowering. Double checked the book and it fits the description, flower wise, quite we'll.[attach=1]
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Your Pulsatilla halleri ssp. rhodopaea is very showy Christine. I am looking forward to see mine in flower. My plants were grown from seeds from a reliable source.
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I ought mine from the members stall I think Cyril. Now I would love to find out where the seed came from as it does appear to be true. I will be sowing its seed once it's ready. Already have bees working on it...
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I am looking forward to see your Pulsatilla halleri rhodopaea in full flower Christine. Mine is still a young plant I put outside last year.
Fantastic show of the Pulsatilla halleri slavica in 2012 Rudi.
Pulsatilla grandis 'Budapest' seedling flowering early this year. The seedlings are quite variable. This one has flowers with 7 petals this year and last year. Two views of the same plant.
Is the pict true in colour ? If so, it is a extraordinary flower !
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yes, Gerhard, that's its colour. I'm so pleased with it....
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I've now retrieved the original label. I got it from John Richards and his note on the label says CGW 10 so it's my guess he got the seed from Chris Grey Wilson. I'll double check with John but if so I think it must be the real McCoy!
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I got this as Pulsatilla albana,if anyone can confirm or correct.
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Chris grey Wilson wrote a great book on cyclamen a while back, I wish he would update it.
John
You need the BIG Book - "Genus Cyclamen: Science, cultivation, art, culture". Edited by Brian Mathew.
This was a joint venture between Kew and the Cyclamen Society. If you are a member - £10 you will get a £30 reduction on the recommended price.
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Pulsatilla vernalis is flowering a month earlier than last year because of the abnormal mild winter/spring (1. foto 18.03., 2. foto another stock 22.03.). it's said, that vernalis is a short-lived species, but i grow them for some years. substrate simple peat with sand, but occasionally i water with acidified rainwater ~ph 3.5-4 (vinegar, sulfuric acid) with a bit fertilizer. they like it ;)
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Ralph
You need the BIG Book - "Genus Cyclamen: Science, cultivation, art, culture". Edited by Brian Mathew.
This was a joint venture between Kew and the Cyclamen Society. If you are a member - £10 you will get a £30 reduction on the recommended price.
Arthur, I think you are confusing me with johnstephen29!
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Pulsatilla vulgaris in the garden now.
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Arthur, I think you are confusing me with johnstephen29!
Well spotted - I have amended it
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Visited the Ingrams' inspirational garden Copton Ash today, and took a few photographs.
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I have had good germination from a batch of seed labeled Pulsatilla occidentalis. I've read somewhere that this is now Anemone occidentalis could anyone clarify for me please?
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David - the Americans call it Anemone (tomaytoe) and the Brits Pulsatilla (tomartoe). I'm not sure what Yorkshiremen call it, but everyone finds it hard to grow! (Most sensible botanists would veer towards Pulsatilla I think).
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;D ;D ;D
Thanks Tim, Pulsatilla it will be. Of course, provided I don't kill them along the way there's a fair chance they may turn out to be P. vulgaris! I notice Graham Nicholls has it has Pulsatilla syn Anemone in his "Alpine Plants of North America".
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CGW has it as pulsatilla in his book syn. anemone David... It really is a lovely thing so I'll keep my fingers crossed it's the real McCoy ...
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Thanks Chris.
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I got this as Pulsatilla albana,if anyone can confirm or correct.
I think the foliage looks right Philip though all mine are more or less creamy or yellow, usually shaded greyish on the reverse. Your violet shade is very nice.
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Thanks Lesley.Carroty foliage.It should be right as it came from RHS garden,Hyde Hall,but I'd only seen pics of the yellowy ones.
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I got this as Pulsatilla albana,if anyone can confirm or correct.
Pulsatilla violacea would be correct.
P. albana has yellow or white or bluish outside flowers. Both species are very close.
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Thank you,Olga.
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Picture of Pulsatilla albana lutea, have sown from seed.
Thorkild-DK
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It's beautiful Thor. Just looked it up and if I'm reading correctly it says it's a synonym and the name should be P. alpina ssp. apiifolia but others more knowledgeable might confirm.
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Hello ChrisB
My Pulsatilla alpina ssp apiifolia look like this.
Thorkild-DK
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It's beautiful Thor. Just looked it up and if I'm reading correctly it says it's a synonym and the name should be P. alpina ssp. apiifolia but others more knowledgeable might confirm.
Chris,
P. alpina is far from P. albana. They differs a lot and are from different sections.
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Hello ChrisB
My Pulsatilla alpina ssp apiifolia look like this.
Thorkild-DK
I thought the white form is P. alpina - which you show, while it is the yellow that is Pulsatilla alpina subsp. apiifolia :-\ :-X
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agree with maggi...the white alpina is Pulsatilla alpina ssp. alpina. edit...Thor's plant looks like an Anemone (different gynoeceum, don't no the english term)?
here a nice variety of Pulsatilla albana
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agree with maggi...the white alpina is Pulsatilla alpina ssp. alpina. edit...it looks like an Anemone (different gynoeceum, don't no the english term)?
here a nice variety of Pulsatilla albana
Ooops! I think you may be correct - Thorkild's plant does look like an Anemone
...but P. alpina is white is it not?
Your yellow pulsatilla is lovely.
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....(made a mistake...maggi please delete ;D)
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...but P. alpina is white is it not?
yes, Pulsatilla alpina ssp. alpina is white (calcareous soil), Pulsatilla alpina ssp. apiifolia is yellow (acid soil).
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A blue Pulsatilla vulgaris, a red Pulsatilla vulgaris, and their self-sown offspring.
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I'm very disappointed in the lack of flowers on my Pulsatillas this year. Is there anything I can do?
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The seeds from the seed exchange are germinating nicely using the Bondareva method.
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Here's my open pollinated Pulsatilla pratensis bohemica
photos 1 and 2 from today
photos 3 and 4 from last year
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Here's my open pollinated Pulsatilla pratensis bohemica
photos 1 and 2 from today
photos 3 and 4 from last year
Very nice Mark, good rich colours.
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Thanks Chris.
I should point out there was only one flower last year and only one this year. When it opens I'll take some more
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The seeds from the seed exchange are germinating nicely using the Bondareva method.
where do i find infos to olga's seed treating + sowing method?
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Here: http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11539.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11539.0)
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A small colony
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very nice, Philip - and nice rocks too!
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Two small clumps of mine a white and a red form of Pulsatilla vulgaris
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It's hard to get a good picture of this,that shows how deep a red it is.
Pulsatilla vulgaris 'Eva Constance'
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Pulsatllia grandis
One of the largest flowered of Pulsatillas.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3730/13900554662_8f5339f726_o_d.jpg)
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Beautiful image Steve.
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My open pollinated Pulsatilla pratensis bohemica flower is now open. Its not as red as last year nor as dark as the parent plant. Is it just a natural colour variation?
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Looks good to me, Mark.
I'm not sure of the name of this one. The flower is huge and is a clean white, not the greyish or greenish colour of a lot of white pulsatillas. There is a pot labelled Pulsatilla grandis cream nearby but it has not flowered yet and the leaves are a bit different. Must try to label every pot or make sure all seedlings from the same seed pot are kept together.
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my beloved Pulsatilla! :) Is already fading out now...
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I have a white Pulsatilla georgica grown from my own seeds. Is it exciting or normal variation?
Does anyone have success with this Pulsatilla in troughs?
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I suppose photos would help .... the open pollinated Pulsatilla georgica.
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I suppose photos would help ....
exquisitely beautiful, never seen a such a white form of Pulsatilla
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Whatever it is, Mark, it's a super plant!
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In his book C. Grey-Wilson says Pulsatilla georgica isn't in cultivation. His photos show plants with nodding flowers. My plants have flowers that look up. Does anyone else grow this plant?
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This is my seed raised Pulsatilla georgica.
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I'll photograph all my plants tomorrow but here are
close up of the parent
two seedlings
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for comparison here is a pict of a first flowering seedling, seeds came from Georgia/Caucasus in 2011
Sorry for poor pict, was rarely at home and never got sun for open flowers
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I could not keep away from reading this interesting thread with many beautiful pictures. And of course I also want to comment a few things. I am sorry I can not keep away from the dashboard. I really like Pulsatillas and want everybody else to do the same, so I will try to contribute a little to the discussions as it seems as it is a genus that most of us are interested in.
I think it was Vojtech who sold the seeds labelled alba form of P albana ssp georgica, wasn´t it? (Although Mark got a alba form in his garden) As far as I know the georgica IS in cultivation and has been for many years. But I am not absolutely sure Vojtech´s batch of seeds was correctly labelled? The plants gets quite big and does not have the typical albana growt? Somebody who has any opinions about it? Regarding books...Many "truths" are stated in books, and much information is lacking.
The flowers of georgica are nodding in bad weather to protect pistills and pollen, and also in the beginning of the flowering season, but upwards in good weather and in the end of flowering period. It goes for a lot of Pulsatillas.
The yellow albana ssp that figures in the beginning of the thread is seen with many names, it is very confusing when one is not "into" Pulsatillas. You see it as P albana ssp lutea, ssp aurea, ssp flavescens or even P albana `Lutea´. But it is not a cultivar, it is a true member of the albana complex, and -this is good-it comes true from seeds. It is also, as I am sure you all already know, very reliable, grows everywhere and under any condition. I would say that ssp flavescens is the "most correct" name. But yes, unfortunally you also see it as P albana ssp apiifolia, which confuses it even more, as the apiifolia is the yellow form of alpina, as mentioned above.
In the albana complex, in case somebody is not quite sure about the different ssp:s ( but I do think we already discussed it in the last thread?) is P albana ssp albana,which is very variable as Olga says. Sometimes you see that one, when slightly yellowish also labelled as P albana `Lutea´. or P albana f lutea, but it is such a common variation, and only one between many shades of colors, so I think we should keep to albana ssp albana whitout any more definations. Then there is the true yellow one; albana ssp flavescens, and georgica that you have already discussed. More there is the beautiful albana ssp armena, with stunning flowers and finally there is the albana ssp violacea, that sometimes is all violet, but sometimes and more nicely, white in the center and violet at the top of the sepals. It looks like it is an aquarelle painting. Someones even add one more ssp to the complex, ssp andina. Taxonomes really like their job, if we let them loose they would probably add new ssp and var every week I am afraid. Not only to albana but to halleri and vulgaris and patens and...So much variation in nature. Where are the limits between one ssp and another, or variation? Perhaps we have to accept the fact it is a very variable genus?
If you ask me I would say that P alpina does look a lot like an Anemone, as it has very special "leaves on the stalk" and Anemone-like flowers. I have never seen it in wild, so I would not dare to say anything about the photos posted here, I trust you others.
Keep discussing and growing these beauties, whatever it is nor not is.
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CGW has it as pulsatilla in his book syn. anemone David... It really is a lovely thing so I'll keep my fingers crossed it's the real McCoy ...
Chris, my seed grown P.occidentalis (provided they turn out as labelled) are still doing well would you like one?
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Yes please!...
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Chris, my seed grown P.occidentalis (provided they turn out as labelled) are still doing well would you like one?
David I wish you very well with the continued health of your P. occidentalis (provided they turn out as labelled). I had this a few years ago from an impeccable NW American source and the seedlings had foliage rather like P. alpina and P. alpina ssp apiifolia, looser and not so fluffy as P. vulgaris. They did well until they began to set buds then the lot (about 20 plants) collapsed and died in a very short time. I had had a photo from the source, a glorious, almost golden flower and very large.
Sorry to tell you this, I really like to make a cheerful contribution. :D
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I have to join in with Lesley, but with ever worse experiences. I have tried P occidentalis many times, with very good germination. ( it is very easy to see if it is P occidentalis as its first characteristic leave always comes from beneath the cotyledon leaves ( I think I posted a picture to show in the other Pulsatilla thread?). All Pulsatillas of this group, PP alpina, apiifolia and aurea, has this behavior. Perhaps some of the Far East species too? I have never tried to grow these very difficult species from Kuriles Islands. I will try to find out, I have never thought of it before.
Anyway, what do I do to kill my P occidentalis seedlings? Oh, it is very simple: I just repot them and in a few days they are all dead. Next time I get hold of seeds I will put very few seeds in each pot and not touch them for at least two years, to see if it makes any difference. Probably not, I am a notorious killer but it is usually due to neglectance, not to paying attention to the poor seedlings.
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Well, having read these two posts I shall report back, if I get the seedling from David. I. Love a challenge... Wonder what repotting does to the seedlings? Are they frost tender I wonder?
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Chris, it's more likely to be damage to the roots - pulsatillas hate root disturbance despite the curious fact that they can at times be propagated from root cuttings. Hence all those superb Farrer medal plants dug up and displayed and replanted to a lingering death. Some alpines just won't be tamed!
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My Pulsatilla occidentalis(if!) were from SRGC Exchange seed, SRGC 12/13-3259, and were sown 6 September 2013. I have successfully re-potted them three times without disturbing the roots-once from seedpot to individual mini-pots, then to 3" pots and then to 4" pots where they are at the moment. I'll try and get a pic tomorrow. Is leaf shape of any use in identifying?
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Wonder if you've got the real McCoy David?
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Tim, I am sorry to contradict you. But as you know I am a Pulatilla-fan, which of course gives that I have sown, germinated, repotted and replanted thousands of Pulsatillas. The myth of not liking root disturbance I would clearly say is just a myth. But, I think the occidentalis might be very unpleased by having the roots disturbed at young age?
Actually, my interested begun with a P vernalis given to me with the instructions "do not replant it, as it will die because it has a taprot". But my garden was fairly new and I was constructing new rockeries and borders all the time so my plants were all moved, including the Pulsatilla, back and forth, back and forth. And I learned it was absolutely no problem moving it, not even in full vegetation period and it certainly did not have a taproot.
I usually keep my Pulsatillas, all species, growing in "freely", not in pots, until it is time to move to a new home. Then I dig them up, whatever stage of flowering they are in, and bring them to the market. No problem. Nobody has ever complained that the plants die because of my rough tratement. But I do tell the buyers to please, take all-if in flower- the flowers off, so the plant can concentrate on getting established in the new sorroundings.
[attach=1]
Pulsatilla multifida in nature
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My Pulsatilla occidentalis(if!) were from SRGC Exchange seed, SRGC 12/13-3259, and were sown 6 September 2013. I have successfully re-potted them three times without disturbing the roots-once from seedpot to individual mini-pots, then to 3" pots and then to 4" pots where they are at the moment. I'll try and get a pic tomorrow. Is leaf shape of any use in identifying?
Couple of pics here as promised.
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Well.... I hate to say it, but those are very peculiar-looking leaves for Pulsatilla occidentalis. :(
https://www.nargs.org/comment/23580#comment-23580 (https://www.nargs.org/comment/23580#comment-23580)
http://web.unbc.ca/~fsty201/plant_page.php?familyname=RANUNCULACEAE&plantname=Anemone%20occidentalis&commonname=%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20Mountain%20Pasque%20Flower&plantimage=Anemone%20occidentalis-spring%20image-leaves.jpg (http://web.unbc.ca/~fsty201/plant_page.php?familyname=RANUNCULACEAE&plantname=Anemone%20occidentalis&commonname=%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20Mountain%20Pasque%20Flower&plantimage=Anemone%20occidentalis-spring%20image-leaves.jpg)
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Well.... I hate to say it, but those are very peculiar-looking leaves for Pulsatilla occidentalis. :(
You're right Lori. :(
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I'm properly corrected Susann - maybe the stories have come from very established plants in gardens that growers reckon are so good they might get a Farrer Medal! Seedlings are more vulnerable, especially if they come up too close together - we did have trouble with a batch last year, but probably weren't careful enough with them, mostly they are OK. But I am another who has tried P. occidentalis and not managed to grow on young plants, so it's obviously one of the famous alpine miffs or mimps (not sure what the Swedish would be for that!).
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I wonder if your plant, David, might be "Pulsatilla trisecta"... ?? I just bought an extremely odd plant labelled as such from a local greenhouse - looks sort of like your plant.
It has been talked about on this website, if you do a search.
http://jelitto.com/Seed/Perennials/PULSATILLA-patens-ssp-trisecta-f-flavescens-Portion-s--.html (http://jelitto.com/Seed/Perennials/PULSATILLA-patens-ssp-trisecta-f-flavescens-Portion-s--.html)
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No, sorry Lori, I would not think of "trisecta" either, because that type of P patens has a rather sharp outer line of the leaves. If I would think that your plants are Pulsatillas, David, I would think of P chinensis, which is the only one with big rather Paeonia-like leaves. But I do not dare to say anything. I have only seen very mature plants and late in season, but the leaves slightly remember of yours. It will be very interesting to hear later on what it is? Perhaps not even a Ranunculacea? Could the pictures be moved to a "what is this"-thread, maybe?
Tim, where do you pick up all the strange words? My poor brain is as usual overheated when I read, re-read and re-re-read your posts.
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I think I'll post my pics in both the Grow from Seed and Plant ID threads and see if anything turns up.
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David, can this picture of P chinensis be of any help to you? It as a mature plant, and quitw late in the season, after the fruits are set. P chinensis is much "hairer" than P cernua for example (on the backside of the leaves)e
[attach=1]
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Thanks for that Susann. That looks to be an awful lot lighter shade of green than does my plant though.
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Maybe you can bleach them with chlorine?
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David - to me that leaf looks a lot more like Anemone multifida (magellanica), but if that's the case the seed would have been woolly and quite unlike pulsatilla seed. American botanists, it seems, don't recognise the genus pulsatilla and place the two American species into Anemone, which seems pretty confusing. Chris Grey-Wilson writes about how close these two genera are, and the quite distinct differences there are between them, in his book on Pasque flowers, and one of the most obvious is the feathery plumes on pulsatilla seed. If the seed was pulsatilla-like then Lori's suggestion seems logical.
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If the seed was pulsatilla-like then Lori's suggestion seems logical.
I believe that was Susan's Oops, Diane's very logical suggestion in another thread on the same subject. Hard to remember what seeds look like, for me, unless perhaps I was already suspicious of the ID for some reason.
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David - to me that leaf looks a lot more like Anemone multifida (magellanica), but if that's the case the seed would have been woolly and quite unlike pulsatilla seed. American botanists, it seems, don't recognise the genus pulsatilla and place the two American species into Anemone, which seems pretty confusing. Chris Grey-Wilson writes about how close these two genera are, and the quite distinct differences there are between them, in his book on Pasque flowers, and one of the most obvious is the feathery plumes on pulsatilla seed. If the seed was pulsatilla-like then Lori's suggestion seems logical.
Tim, you may well have cracked the problem, thanks very much indeed. I have an Anemone multifida in the garden and I've just been out to check and it has a marked similarity to my seedlings. I don't have a clue what the seeds looked like and as I said in my reply to Diane Clement I'm hard pressed to remember what I had for Dinner yesterday!
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Perhaps some problems are not problems at all if one doesn't know about them? I have a quite old plant of P. vernalis, maybe 20 years now, which has been in 4 gardens as I've moved, and potted in between each pair of gardens FOR the move, and though it currently looks distinctly shabby and is showing no sign of flowering this coming spring, it does still survive. It's about 25cms across. I've read that pulsatillas shouldn't be disturbed but have had to move some from time to time and I don't think I've ever lost one. Sometimes if there's a really good colour form, it's worth the move to retain it. Seedlings are not always true.
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Lesley, Susann - my father-in-law has a saying, 'this is one of the few things I don't know!'. Experience is all isn't it - I shan't be too worried if I have to dig up a pulsatilla from now on - and I thought I knew everything there was to know about plants ;) 8)
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Well Tim, there's that other well known gardeners' saying, "the more I know the more I realize I don't know" and if nothing else, I know beyond a doubt that THAT one is true for me. I also know that I've forgotten more than I currently know, which probably says more about the state of my ageing brain than of anything else.
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Well Tim, there's that other well known gardeners' saying, "the more I know the more I realize I don't know" and if nothing else, I know beyond a doubt that THAT one is true for me. I also know that I've forgotten more than I currently know, which probably says more about the state of my ageing brain than of anything else.
That's close to one of my dad's favourite sayings (usually when talking to me about gardening) "I've forgotten more than you'll ever know!" ;D
cheers
fermi
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I think I would like your father Fermi, not shy at all, is he?
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this year i prepared a planting bed for such Pulsatilla species, which prefer acid soil. i mixed peat with sand, lava, coarse-grained sand + perlite and "build" a little knoll using some sandstones. i decided to situate the bed in full sun, expecting a better flower result than in shadier places. i planted Pulsatilla vernalis, P. alpina ssp. apiifolia, P. occidentalis, P. sugawarai, P. taraoi. here my interim results with some photos
Pulsatilla sugawarai from sakhalin. in july 2013 i got some seed + in november 2013 5 young plants from yuzawa nursery. i planted the young plants in tall pots + stored them in my cold but frostfree greenhouse for overwinter. some seed germinated in autumn 2013 too. starting in spring, 2 of the young plants rotted, also some of the seedlings (4 seedlings remained). after replanting the potted sugawarai in my peat bed, one of them rotted soon (but i noted, that the root stem is in good condition, so i hope the plant sprouts again next year). the remaining 2 plants continued growing well. i decided to replant the remaining 4 seedlings directly from the seed pot into the peat bed. they continued growing without any problem. all sugawarai seem to have no problem with full sun. compare the increasing growth of the sugawarai from flowering status to seed setting:
[attach=1] [attach=2] [attach=3] [attach=4] [attach=5]
sometimes i water the "peat knoll" with rainwater with some sulphur acid (ph ~4). till now it seems it works, but let's wait how they can withstand our rainy winter.
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i also got 5 Pulsatilla taraoi (kurile islands) last year from yuzawa nursery. treated the same as the sugawarai plants. 1 plant rotted in spring, still potted. i planted the remaining 4 plants in the peat knoll in full sun. don't do that! what i can say is, that Pulsatilla taraoi needs a shady place in my climate area. maybe the place could be sunnier in GB, norway, sweden in more humid climate (coastal areas). the hot sun burns the leaves. i planted a shady grove + gave some extra shade by a shade cloth. now the plants seem to recover:
[attach=1]
from another german nursery i got 8 seedlings of Pulsatilla occidentalis (seed origin Yakima Co., Washington). when i got the "plants", they looked like just germinated. ;D after planting in the peat knoll, 3 died very quick, but the rest is growing well in full sun.
[attach=2]
here some P. vernalis, grown from seed (germinating autumn 2012). they "exploded" in full sun in the acid peat soil. the left one just produces 2 flower buds:
[attach=3]
Pulsatilla alpina ssp. apiifolia, seed grown, germinating autumn 2012. in my experience, alpina is quite slow growing + i'm happy, that they grow good in full sun:
[attach=4]
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Congratulations! I hope that you realize that most of even the most skilled Japanse alpine growers kill Pp sugawarii and taraoi before reaching flowering stage? Your soil mix seems to be just what they want. Yuzawa grows their acid loving Pulsatillas in pure -I can only describe it as grit- that they get straigth from a vulcan, it is a quite corse grit. I am sure there are a lot of strange minerals in their grit that we dont know about and therefore can not copy.
Here in Sweden P vernalis is not a problem at all, of course. It selfseeds in the rockeries and grit paths and sometimes I am worried they in the end will become to many. I grow it in south facing, southwest facing, no problem. Usually our summers has lots of rain but this year July was sunny as in Europe.
My experience of P alpina ssp apiifolia is that it germinates the first year after sowing-but only a few-and then, the second year, it is like a 100 % germination. I have grown it many times, with different sources and it has always the same pattern in my garden. But I would agree with Greenpan saying they are slow in my garden. But many things are as I do not use fertilizer. I prefer to let the plants take their time as in nature and just let them "recycle".
What else do you grow in your knoll?
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Greenspan, your Pulsatillas look WONDERFUL! So richly green and healthy. Thanks for showing these photos with their different and easy to identify foliage forms. I hope we'll see more of them soon. :)
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thx lesley 8) i hope i can show more photos next year...cross all fingers. growing Pulsatilla, success and flop is close together and can change very quick...unfortunately mostly into flop. :P at the moment i noted it with my P. aurea...got 8 seedlings, 5 developed to good looking plants + from then on one by one rotted over months. now only 2 plants remained...exasperating. :-[
Yuzawa grows their acid loving Pulsatillas in pure -I can only describe it as grit- that they get straigth from a vulcan, it is a quite corse grit. I am sure there are a lot of strange minerals in their grit that we dont know about and therefore can not copy.
i guess the substrate is "Kanuma" (http://www.dallasbonsai.com/soil/kanuma.html), an acid mineral. here a description: A granular Japanese Potting Medium for Ericaceous (Acid Loving) Bonsai. This particular material comes from the Kanuma Area of Japan which is basically the center of Azalea Bonsai Growing. Again, you must understand as with Akadama, that this is the stuff that the Japanese have out in their back yards ... it's their "dirt." This material is dug out from 10 feet down, allowed to dry, crushed and then sorted as to grain sizes. It is more acidic than Akadama, and therefore, used mainly for Azaleas, Camellias, Gardenias and other acid loving Bonsai.
in my opinion, the soil components aren't the main key for growing acid-loving Pulsatilla species successfully (of course the mineral components have to be not calcareous). a stable ph-value around 4 seems to be the key. note that simple pure rainwater has ph ~6-6,5! peat will hold the ph-level low for some month till the acid buffer is exhausted. after a year or so the ph-level increases more and more and then you will note, that plants grow backwards inexplicably + die slowly. so you have to water your prepared soil with acid water from time to time to decrease the ph value (some use vinegar, i prefer sulphuric acid).
when i talk to my gardenfriends here in germany, Pulsatilla vernalis is said to be a short-living Pulsatilla..1-2 years, max. 3 years. i made the same experiences till i watered with acid rainwater. now i grow vernalis for many years. @lesley...you told about your 20-years old vernalis...could it be that your common gardening soil in new zealand is naturally acid?
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Wow, thank you for the very detailed and interesting information. ( I know exactly from which vulcan Yazawa gets their "grit" as I climbed it. I just have to find the notes. But I can tell it is not from Kanuma area, as the vulcan is situated at Hokkaido, but surely it is something similar)
Your information made me so happy so I decided to add one more picture despite the trouble to find it and convert it to JPEG. More pictures will come later. Wíth "later" I guess I mean "autumn". I do not know when that is. I always think that "in autumn" and "in winter" I will do all the indoor jobs, but autumn seems very short and always gives me lot of energy to work in the garden. Right now I have some strong men living in my B&B and they have asked me if I need any help in the garden. Some of you might remember I posted a picture of huge stones that were dumped in my front yard last year. Well, I have a plan...
Anyway, here is the image, please enjoy:
[attachimg=1]
P bungeana v tenuiloba that I know that you grow, Greenspan.
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susann, where did you made the photo of your bungeana? i don't know, whether my bungeana ssp. tenuiloba was correct labelled. here the photo again:
[attach=1]
looks different to your plants. your photo reminds me to a habitat like a grassy slope. this is very different to bungeana habitats e.g. in mongolia (altai mountain). i found a project of university of greifswald ("Virtual Guide to the Flora of Mongolia") with 7 Pulsatilla records (http://greif.uni-greifswald.de/floragreif/?gr1=&gr2=&ord=&subfam=&tr=&sec=&fam=&gen=pulsatilla&spec=&v-407=&v-408=&v-409=&flora_key=Taxon). the bungeana there grow in desert like habitats + the plants are similar to mine (flower):
plant1 (http://greif.uni-greifswald.de/floragreif/floragreif-content/Kr03/02-09-2003-IMG_1160.jpg) - plant2 (http://greif.uni-greifswald.de/floragreif/floragreif-content/Mon03/CD3/D60_1963.JPG) - plant3 (http://greif.uni-greifswald.de/floragreif/floragreif-content/YN07/_DSC0564.JPG)
habitat1 (http://greif.uni-greifswald.de/floragreif/floragreif-content/Kr03/02-09-2003-IMG_1164.jpg) - habitat2 (http://greif.uni-greifswald.de/floragreif/floragreif-content/Kr05/1631.jpg)
(overview to all bungeana records in the database with more photos (http://greif.uni-greifswald.de/floragreif/?flora_search=Record&gr1=angiosperms&gr2=dicotyledons&ord=Ranunculales&fam=Ranunculaceae&subfam=&tr=&gen=Pulsatilla&sec=&spec=bungeana&coll=&collno=&paged=1))
is bungena so different or do we speak about different species? on the greifswald project, the botanists treat bungeana and tenuiloba each as single species.
herbar photos of tenuiloba (http://greif.uni-greifswald.de/floragreif/?flora_search=Image&gr1=&gr2=&ord=&fam=Ranunculaceae&subfam=&tr=&gen=Pulsatilla&sec=&spec=tenuiloba&show=scan)
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This is a cultivated plant of Pulsatilla bungeana (?) in Milan Halada's garden last May. It looks close to Susann's picture in the wild and to several pictures of it in Chris Grey-Wilson's book in cultivation, but certainly rather different in leaf to Greenspan's plant. Chris Grey-Wilson describes it as having 'elegant gaping blooms held well above the foliage' when in cultivation, but much more ground hugging and compact in habitat, which would equate with such a harsh dry landscape. Presumably though areas getting significant rains at intervals would quickly grow up more grasses and stronger vegetation?
Really interesting to see all these photos and references to the plant, and Mongolia looks a place floristically more interesting than school geography might suggest!
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Never underestimate Mongolia, Tim - everyone I know who has had the good fortune to vist loved the place and the wealth of plants they saw. For instance, Panayoti Kelaidis tempted us after one of his trips : http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=3953.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=3953.0) and he has written in past blogs about his visits. This link is still active to photos : http://s979.photobucket.com/user/kelaidis/media/Mongolia%202009/wierdRhodiolaroseaMongolia456.jpg.html (http://s979.photobucket.com/user/kelaidis/media/Mongolia%202009/wierdRhodiolaroseaMongolia456.jpg.html)
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Tim, there are three different variations of P bungeana. Greenspans plant is a v tenuiloba. What the plant on your picture is I do not dare to say but I can tell you this much that the Czechs unfortunally are as confused as the rest of us. I have never seen a correctly labelled P bungeana in there gardens but of course I have seen far from all the gardens in that beautiful country. Regarding books I think we should be very careful to trust pictures from garden specimens. And yes, Mongolia was fantastic with such a variation of biotops. They count 16 different types of vegatation regions. It seemed like every valley was totally different from the ones before and many times the landscape and biotops changed dramatically many times in the very same valley.
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... are as confused as the rest of us.
yes...first i am. ;D
i checked a latin dictionary to find out, what "tenuiloba" could be meant. "tenuis" = "thin, narrow", "lobus" = lobe, so this fits the leafshape of my plant comparing to the broader lobes of a normal bungeana. but what i noticed just now when i checked this bungeana photo of the mongolian type (http://greif.uni-greifswald.de/floragreif/floragreif-content/Mon03/CD3/D60_1963.JPG) again (use the "cursor +" to zoom in) ...have a look at the stamens! they are dark purple(?) + the pollen is white! i never watched out this feature before. i can't believe, that this is a result of the dry + extrem sunny habitat. maybe a local variation? susann...help us, let your garden be what it is and check your photos. ;D ;)
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Well, if we can ever tempt Panayoti to visit the hot, dry south of England this is a talk I would love to hear :) I did have some idea of the relative riches of the flora, despite my school geography, because so many such arid regions are home to such wonderful plants, and for some reason I have this urge to grow many of them in our garden. It's nice to see that as well as rather amazing fossil discoveries you could also spend a lot of time studying the natural flora of Mongolia. Thanks Susann, I learn little by little, but especially would like to grow more of the pulsatillas and have them correctly identified and from habitat, so it's rewarding to get such first-hand experience on the Forum.
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Greenspan, that is the wonderful P bungeana v astragaliifolia. (Once again, check the leaves, they are really different). It is my absolute favourite and the reason I wanted to include Mongolia in my trip. All the other species there are to be found in other places too, but not this one. Why this variety has blue stamens I can of course not tell, but I can explain part of it. But I was going to save that for later. The photo you have found is taken by Martin Schnittler. I am very happy that I found the plant, I did not even dare to dream about it. It grows in a strictly protected area- but not the same as the area mentioned in the thread about my trip. It has a very nice feature, it grows like P sugawarii when getting older, it reminds me of Paraquilegia. The blue stamens is not the only speciality ( and the very anemone-like flowers) but it also have another stunning detail I will show later if not someone else will show it before ( yes, I try to make a cliffhanger). As most of you already know P kostyzcewii also have -almost- blue stamens, but I think this little friend is much more beautiful.
Tim, please, remember I am far from an "expert". I am just very interested but try to learn everything that is to learn about them. But as Leslie said the other day; the more I learn the more I realize how little I know.
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This is the plant I just bought as "Pulsatilla trisecta". I'm doubtful! Any idea what it might be, Susan, or anyone else?
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Lori, I must repeat, I am not an expert; far from. But I wish I was. Let us all learn together. But I would say yes, I think it could still be a P patens "f trisecta". I have to admit I right now do not remember if this a valid forma or not. But, it has a slightly soft form on the tips; but as they variate so much I think it might be totally possible? The small tuft of hair at the end of the tops you see at P patens. But, and important, it looks quite hairy? And the form of the leaves resembles almost more of the young leaves of P chinensis? They are hairy and also have the small tuft of hair at the top.
I am very happy I am just a happy gardening amateur and not a brain surgery doctor. ...Hm, this looks like healthy texture but this is slightly different, or not, or yes, lets cut...Oh, it must be horrible to have to be so sure.
I add two pictures, one is of the forma of P patens and the other one is a recently emerged leave of P chinensis. Please, do not care about the colors, one is too light and the other too dark.
[attachimg=1]
P chinensis
[attachimg=2]
P patens
Maggi, I have tried in other posts to add the pictures as "inline expandable", but then they are just not small, and not possible to open as Loris´s and others? I use the browsing "thing" to chose "expandable"?
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Second time flowering this year .....P. turczaninowii. At least I get it under this name.
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Congratulations! Mine does not remont that well this year; only one or a few flowers on each plant. I don´t know why? They should be used to hog and dry weather. Maybe they are spoiled being used to clouds and rain every other day? How are they doing in other parts? (But are they really that violet, or is it the camera? P turczaninovii should be blue, but the involucrate leaves look OK I would say?)
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Congratulations! Mine does not remont that well this year; only one or a few flowers on each plant. I don´t know why? They should be used to hog and dry weather. Maybe they are spoiled being used to clouds and rain every other day? How are they doing in other parts? (But are they really that violet, or is it the camera? P turczaninovii should be blue, but the involucrate leaves look OK I would say?)
Hello Susann , thanks . No it is not my camera ....here it is not so blue and the colour of the flower on the picture looks very much like the real one.
My garden can be very hot in summer when the weather is good. It is like an amfitheatre .
But august was really wet so far ......
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I lost the original label from this one but as I remember wel it was not correct labeled ........
P. spec..... ?
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kris, can't see enough (e.g. leaves). my first thought...Pulsatilla violacea? compare your plant with this foto in plantarium.ru (http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/135339.html).
would you please show a leaf/leaves photo of your turczaninovii. all "turczaninovii" plants i saw or got were ambigua.
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kris, can't see enough (e.g. leaves). my first thought...Pulsatilla violacea? compare your plant with this foto in plantarium.ru (http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/135339.html).
You could be right , looks much the same. Thanks for the link !
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would you please show a leaf/leaves photo of your turczaninovii. all "turczaninovii" plants i saw or got were ambigua.
Try to make a detailed picture from the leaves .
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would you please show a leaf/leaves photo of your turczaninovii. all "turczaninovii" plants i saw or got were ambigua.
Try to make a detailed picture from the leaves .
Sorry for the delay , but here some details from the leaves ......
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the leaves are of the ambigua type (bipinnate). compare your plants with this herbar example of ambigua (http://greif.uni-greifswald.de/floragreif/wp-content/uploads/scan_B04-10/template.php?i=Puls-ambi-HAL-56577) and the tripinnate leaves of turczaninovii: herbar example (http://greif.uni-greifswald.de/floragreif/wp-content/uploads/scan_B04-10/template.php?i=Puls-turc-GFW-039361) + leaf foto by olga bondareva (scroll down to posting #9) (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9988.0)
olgas leaf-photo of different Pulsatilla species : turczaninovii = the big leaf in the middle, left from that = ambigua (ambigua: in my opinion)
(http://cs10623.userapi.com/u6450879/97775300/y_f7092a77.jpg)
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Pulsatillas, pulsatillas, pulsatillas; will we ever stop wondering what they are or not are? I think we should not be too sure about the leaves regarding P ambigua and P turczaninovii? They vary so much in nature. P turczaninovii seems to be very common both in Central Sibiria and in Mongolia while P ambigua is very rare. I only saw it at very high altitudes while turczaninovii was found at different altitudes, not rarely together with P multifida that is said to be a steppe species. I found multifida also at quite high altitudes, in light forrests and in clearings of the forrest.
I think ( and hope I am right) that I have noticed some better details than the leaves´s shape to help separate ambigua type from turczaninovii type. These details where always the same although the basal leaves varied a lot. I would like to check it all to make sure that I am correct.
Meanwhile, just let us keep enjoying these beauties. Whatever they are.
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Thanks both Susann and greenspan for your reply and attention.
I have no idea about the true ID ....I am not anough botanist and more someone who find the challenge in try to grow plants and try to create rockgardens . But I always more happy when I know the right ID of my plants , that is also very mportant for me. So ......... ::)
I hope this one is more clear , P. tatewaki ;D
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Kris,
I am scared to say anything. But your plant looks a lot like Tatewakii; but...Tatewakii is usually very hairy with dark reverse of the involucrate leaves and usually, I say usually because I am sure they vary a lot as all the others, slightly lighter in their color than yours? Maybe Greenspan could give us his opinion?
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Kris,
I am scared to say anything. But your plant looks a lot like Tatewakii; but...Tatewakii is usually very hairy with dark reverse of the involucrate leaves and usually, I say usually because I am sure they vary a lot as all the others, slightly lighter in their color than yours? Maybe Greenspan could give us his opinion?
Many thanks Susann ! By the way , I get this plant from a very good Swedisch friend .
Yes it would be nice to have an opinion from greenspan to.
Even it is not true , I still find it a very beautiful plant ! I am really happy with it. It flowers here in spring and then always fade away ...Then I always have the idea that I lost it ....In the summer it really looks not very good. But by the end of summer it comes true again and flowers a second time. Bit strange...
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Today I found the most beautiful cross of P dahurica x P turczaninovii in flower. It had one flower last year but has grown very big this year, and now it has two flowers; second flowering ( P dahurica does flower two times in a season). The plant looks like P dahurica in any way, leaves, size, feature, involucrate leaves. The only thing that tells it is a cross is the very dark blue and different looking flowers. So, they are tricky. If my plant was not in flower I would be 100 % sure it was a dahurica.
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Sorry, I was wrong. I went back to the rockery to take a picture of the plant and then realized it does not look like P dahurica in the leaves, but certainly very similar to it; not very difficult to mistake it for the true species at a quick look.
[attachimg=1]
This plant flowered the first time last year ( I have a lot of crosses like this one in that rockery where originally only one P dahurica and one P turczaninovii grew. This is the only one I have seen in flower)
[attachimg=2]
The flowers looks like this. Still too small I think to be appriciated by a non-Pulsatilla lover, but much more colorful than P dahurica.
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i can't help with the tatewakii id. what i see on photos so far, tatewakii + sugawaraii seem to be very similar. i was wondering how two Pulsatilla species, native on the same island (sakhalin) + without morphological differences at first glance each got a species status. maybe sugawaraii should be treated as a subspecies of tatewakii (nomenclature rules because of first description of tatewakii). but i'm no botanist. ;D
CGW describes sugawaraii in his book as a smaller plant, compared to tatewakii (sugawaraii not more than 6 cm in flower, tatewakii 10-15 cm in flower). the peduncle of my sugawaraii (got under this name from yuzawa) is about 20 cm (after setting seed), the leaves level is about 8 cm. what do i have...tatewakii and wrong determinate by yuzawa? adaption to another climate here in my garden? i found one distinctive difference comparing my sugawaraii with photos of tatewakii in internet (if they are correct labelled)...the involucrate leaves of sugawaraii bound upward in flower and spreading when setting seed (see my pictures here, posting #113 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11144.105)). the involucrate leaves of tatewakii are already spread when flowering. kris tatewakii shows spreading involucrate leaves in flower.
btw...another plant of my sugawaraii sprouts a flower. 8)
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Thanks for your comment greenspan !