Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: Brian Ellis on November 07, 2013, 09:12:25 AM
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It's interesting to speculate how many snowdrops you would need if you restricted yourself to distinctive snowdrops you could identify at a glance. 60 might be about right to meet that criterion.
Sounds like a good start to a new thread, I'd start off with Diggory, Swanton, Wasp and Lapwing.
NB Dec 2016 The final list in 2013 starts here:
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11041.msg287817#msg287817 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11041.msg287817#msg287817)
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Sounds like a good start to a new thread, I'd start off with Diggory, Swanton, Wasp and Lapwing.
I'll be following eagerly this conversation (being a novice snowdrop enthusiast :)).
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Right-oh- here's your new thread............
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We need somebody brave enough to take all the labels out of their snowdrops then be able to put them all back again a year later. In the right order. ::)
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Right-oh- here's your new thread............
Well then I had better add Green Mile, I'm sure I'd recognize it if I saw it ;)
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Lady Beatrix Stanley has got to be on the list; easily distinguishable from any other double. And another lady at the other end of the price scale would be Elizabeth Harrison
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I also know a good number of unique snowdrops.
But we should not start with all kinds of flower shapes together at the same moment.
There is a good system in the net ;) ;) ;)
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Well I suppose I could add these ones as long as the test was in Canada:
Hans Guck
Hill Poe
Anglesey Abbey
Blewbury Tart
Lady Elphinstone
johnw
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Is there a hidden assumption here that they all look the same? :P ;D
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Is there a hidden assumption here that they all look the same? :P ;D
Of course not David, where did you get that idea?? ::) ;D :P
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I would add 'Trymposter','South Hayes',You could blindfold me,and spin me around three times,and i would still pick them out..... ;D
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......and to identify a Galanthus cultivar you need a key, or a Galanthomanic that has the knowledge to put the labels back to the right cultivar.
But a start to identify a cultivar might be the key to the Cultivar Groups in Galanthomania (inner cover) and in the same book is a key to identify the cultivars that can be classified in the Galanthus Gold Group (page 29).
Making a key is big fun and gives a clue how different similar cultivars are. I like to puzzle with keys and the key I started for the Galanthus Imperial Group is quite a challange. So for the fun I include the key for the Galanthus Double Group but only the first part.
Perhaps others like to puzzle with keys too.
Best wishes,
Wim
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I had to relabel all mine when the dog ate the labels , he even chewed up the aluminum ones little sod . I must say I do chose my snowdrops carefully and plant them carefully so none that could possibly get muddled are not close . Also I like the weird and wonderful types so maybe they are a little easier to pick out
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......and to identify a Galanthus cultivar you need a key, or a Galanthomanic that has the knowledge
In general, yes, but some cultivars are so instantly recognisable that you don't need a key or a photographic memory or even a very close look in order to identify them. There aren't many like this so there is some point in trying to name them - the ones you could identify almost at a glance.
Steve, I don't own 'Tryposter' but I had always assumed from the name that it was difficult to tell apart from 'Trym'.
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Yes, correct Alan, for many cultivars indeed. But for too many even key does not work either. That is why you find in Galanthus Golden Group key 16 on page 31 more names then just one. You can also see that in the part I posted in the Galanthus Double Group key, more then one name at a key. I think the ICNCP is quite clear about "similar" cultivars.
Best wishes,
Wim
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I'd bet that no-one can tell one poc from the others and that's why I don't have any in my garden
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I'd bet that no-one can tell one poc from the others and that's why I don't have any in my garden
I don't have any because I can't get any! ;D
cheers
fermi
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I would add 'Trymposter','South Hayes',You could blindfold me,and spin me around three times,and i would still pick them out..... ;D
Steve - I should fly you over to sort the mess out here......Trym, Trymposter, Tramp.........they leave my head spinning.
johnw
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Alan,Trymposter keeps it's leaves very close to the ground,which makes a show piece of the flowers,which stay for a long time,a month last year.It's seems bomb proof too,where as Trym has erect leaves,and a smaller flower and a is little taller.
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Steve - I should fly you over to sort the mess out here......Trym, Trymposter, Tramp.........they leave my head spinning.
johnw
;D ;D ;D
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Coming into flower soon here is Galanthus elwesii Peter Gatehouse. Whilst you might not distinguish it from other elwesiis if you saw photographs, I think it is entirely distinctive from any other snowdrop that flowers at this time. It has a much fuller green marking on the inner petals than anything else (that I can think of) and you can see a little of that green mark even on a cold day when the outer petals are closed.
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Yes, I agree with you there Alan, mine are also about to flower. Seeing the green through the gap between the claws is always attractive.
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I am very interested in this thread because in the US you don't get to see and compare very many cultivars. I may think a cultivar is very distinct but it could be because similar cultivars are not available here. The person who started the thread said distinctive snowdrops identified at a glance and thought 60 would meet the criterion. To me that means without a key or a label.
Only 15 have been named though: Diggory, Swanton, Wasp, Lapwing, Green Mile, Lady Beatrix Stanley, Elizabeth Harrison, Hans Gluck, Hill Poe, Anglsey Abbey, Blewbury Tart, Lady Elphinstone, Trymposter, South Hayes, and Peter Gatehouse. Is that it?
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I'm sure that's not it, Carolyn, and there are many more than 15; it's just that we are not fully focussed on snowdrops yet so nominations are a bit sparse! In my mind I imagine I am wandering around a snowdrop garden where there are no labels and I think to myself which of those snowdrops would I recognise immediately without the possibility of confusion with another one. Now that I think of it, for reasons indicated below it's probably best to assume that you are presented with clumps of snowdrops and can therefore see multiple examples of each individual cultivar.
I am grateful to Steve for his explanation of why Tryposter is unique and easy to spot.
I might be slightly inclined to take issue with Anglesey Abbey. This has shining green, leaves unlike the normal glaucous nivalis colour, and a tendency to produce somewhat poculiform flowers. I think in combination the two characteristics are unique but the poculiform nature of the flowers is not reliable and there are other more obscure snowdrops with similar leaves but ordinary flowers. So given a clump of Anglesey Abbey you would need to find a poculiform flower to make a 100% positive identification.
Now I'll nominate Godfrey Owen, which with 6 outer and 6 inner petals is very distinctive. My only reservation is that last year I encountered some that were not performing quite as they should that particular year so, as I don't grow this one myself, I don't know quite how reliable the 6x6 behaviour is.
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Wendy's Gold, Ailwyn, Modern Art, Sophie North, Walrus,
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Pl E.A Bowles ;D, a easy grower for some, but hardly to grow for others. Like me :'(.
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Alan is correct .. I'm not in snowdrop mode either
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Hello again everyone... I haven't posted for ages, and snowdrop mode is only just returning here as well... but more shoots are appearing everyday in the bulb frame.
I'll suggest Sickle, and Augustus (the leaves help in both cases). Perhaps Fly fishing? It stands out rather more than Galatea and Magnet here.
I'm reluctant to suggest some others because although I can identify most of the snowdrops I grow at a glance, that may simply because I don't tend to buy snowdrops similar to the ones I already own....
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so this is what we have so far. If you want to add to it copy the whole list
Ailwyn
Anglesey Abbey
Augustus
Blewbury Tart
Diggory
Hans Guck
Hill Poe
Lady Beatrix Stanley
Lady Elphinstone
Lapwing
Modern Art
Sickle
Sophie North
South Hayes
Swanton
Trymposter
Walrus
Wasp
Wendy's Gold
I've never seen Swanton so don't know how distinctive it is
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Thanks for the list, Mark. Speaking personally, I have sometimes confused Wendy's Gold and Wandlebury Ring, so I'm never confident I can tell them apart unless presented with the two side-by-side for comparison.
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I believe 'Hans Guck' should be 'Hans Guck in die Luft'. Or am I wrong?
Lina.
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Mark - To that you might want to add Rosemary Burnham, Heffalump, Gloucester Old Spot and Green Mile. Maybe Green Tear ::)
Yes Lina, too lazy to write out HGiDL.... :-[
johnw
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so this is what we have so far. If you want to add to it copy the whole list
Ailwyn
Anglesey Abbey
Augustus
Blewbury Tart
Diggory
Hans Guck
Hill Poe
Lady Beatrix Stanley
Lady Elphinstone
Lapwing
Modern Art
Sickle
Sophie North
South Hayes
Swanton
Trymposter
Walrus
Wasp
Wendy's Gold
The original list also included Green Mile, Elizabeth Harrison, and Peter Gatehouse. Suggested since then are Godfrey Owen, EA Bowles, Fly Fishing, Rosemary Burnham, Heffalump, Gloucester Old Spot, and Green Tear.
Alan, I go into snowdrop mode as soon as the first flower blooms in the fall, which is G. reginae-olgae on October 15 in my garden. Then I start obsessing over all my November flowering forms of G. elwesii and don't "unobsess" until April.
I like your criteria of viewing a clump in the garden for the purposes of evaluation. Your discussion of Wendy's Gold as unique or not is exactly the information that is helpful to newer galanthophiles. I think of Wendy's Gold as unique but only have Primrose Warburg and Lady Elphinstone (and soon Spindlestone Surprise) to compare it to. I hope other experienced forum members will chime in with the same kind of information about other nominees.
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You've chanced upon a good case in point, Carolyn, two 'yellow' snowdrops of different origin that look very similar, Primrose Warburg and Spindlestone Surprise ( http://www.independent.co.uk/property/gardening/snowdrop-season-can-you-tell-your-primrose-warburg-from-your-spindlestone-surprise-8493691.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/property/gardening/snowdrop-season-can-you-tell-your-primrose-warburg-from-your-spindlestone-surprise-8493691.html) ).
Wendy's Gold and Wandlebury Ring both originate from the same locale, an area of parkland and woodland called Wandlebury Ring a few miles from where I live, so it is hardly surprising they are similar. If you look at them side-by-side you will see that one grows slightly larger than the other and one has a slightly fuller mark on the inner petals. But if I see one of them in isolation I find it difficult to tell which it is; others may have no problem. Statistically it is much more likely to be Wendy's Gold as that one has been much more widely distributed.
It is in the interests of nurserymen who make a living selling snowdrops to peddle their wares as unique and different so I suspect quite a lot of selection goes on behind the scenes and many snowdrops that look too similar to existing ones never see the light of day.
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I too wouldn't know how to tell the difference between Primrose and Surprise
Can someone really know the difference between all the virescent snowdrops?
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please edit the list yourselves .....
Ailwyn
Anglesey Abbey
Augustus
Blewbury Tart
Diggory
EA Bowles
Elizabeth Harrison
Fly Fishing
Gloucester Old Spot
Godfrey Owen
Green Mile
Green Tear
Hans Guck
Heffalump
Hill Poe
Lady Beatrix Stanley
Lady Elphinstone
Lapwing
Modern Art
Peter Gatehouse
Rosemary Burnham
Sickle
Sophie North
South Hayes
Swanton
Trymposter
Walrus
Wasp
Wendy's Gold
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Mark,
I would add 'Blue Magnet' and 'Yellow Angel' to your list.I wonder if you could tell 'Blewbury Tart' and 'Green Fingers'apart?and 'Ailwyn' and 'Lady Fairhaven' are very close,only flowering a week or two apart.
Poc's...If you had one from each species,you would be able to tell them apart.
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The longer a snowdrop cultivar exists, the more likely it is that someone will find another one that looks similar. Just look at 'Magnet' which was followed by 'Wisley Magnet', 'Benton Magnet' and now 'Blue Magnet', which I don't think I have ever heard of before. All these are distinguishable but still tend to make the original less distinct. I presume 'Blue Magnet' is in a league of its own; does anyone have a picture?
There is also a chance that random mutations can result in diversity amongst what is nominally the same clone. It's quite controversial whether 'Ailwyn' and 'Lady Fairhaven' are even distinct although Steve clearly believes he can tell one from the other due to flowering time. Perhaps we should be allowed to group snowdrops together and say that Ailwyn/Lady Fairhaven are distinct from all other snowdrops if not from each other?
Yellow Angel is another new one to me but Marks's web site has a picture of that one and it looks pretty distinctive to me.
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Poc's...If you had one from each species,you would be able to tell them apart.
Are there such plants available?
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Yellow Angel
I thought Lady Fairhaven and Ailwyn were told apart by eyes or no eyes
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Alan,I've just looked back at my records for 'Ailwyn' and 'Lady Fairhaven'and i'm wrong about the flowering times :-[ :-[ :-[.2010 both flowered with me 5th of February,2011 both on the same day again 28th of january,L F no flowers 2012,and this year 2013,27th of January.They were both bought from different suppliers.If anyone else has records of these two cultivars in their own garden,lets see if it's the same or two different plants,perhaps we could save some money!....
'Blue Magnet'was christened last year,Sorry no pictures,But i spotted it from ten yards.Matt B should have abit more information,but it will be a long time before it's available.
'Yellow Angel'...Mr Grimshaw wrote on his blog last year that this was the most significant snowdrop that he had seen in along time,I think that say's it all.
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Are there such plants available?
Mark, r-o Autumn Snow,plicatus E. A. Bowles,elwesii 'White Perfection'nivalis 'Mark Solomon' to name a few.There is alot more.You should be able to tell those apart,and forget about the names and just enjoy the different forms. :)
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Thanks Steve and oops - I forgot I have elwesii White Perfection ;D
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Another one that should be added to the list,Is Alan's 'Green Light' ,That stands out. ;D
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I noticed through the years that when i explained to people how to look at snowdrops it opened a complete new world to them! And in that opinion you dont need a list, just take youre time and have a good look at it in all its appearances.
The better you look the more you see! Just dont rush and dont try to compete with others. ;D
Only when its a quiz!
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I thought Lady Fairhaven and Ailwyn were told apart by eyes or no eyes
Indeed they are, Mark. However the question is whether these characteristics are reproducible year-on-year. Some people assert that what is Ailwyn one year can turn into Lady Fairhaven another year, and vice versa. Few of us have more than one or two bulbs of either, so it is hard to form a considered opinion.
I had considered volunteering 'Green Light' for the list but held back because:
- The green marks on the outer petals are quite small and so are not that obvious.
- I have 'under wraps' a similar snowdrop called 'Green Hornet'. I can spot the difference between 'Green Light' and 'Green Hornet' but they are rather similar (not unlike Wendy's Gold and Wandlebury Ring).
By the way, I'm not for one minute trying to suggest that snowdrops should not be classified systematically; I'm just having a bit of fun by seeking nominations for the most distinctive ones.
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Only just got in snowdrop mode here when I noticed elwesii 'Hollis' in flower yesterday! So when does Remember, Remember flower.....it's a bit late for Nov 5th - it was new this year so may need time to settle.
Without giving it too much thought I would add good old Hippolyta to the list as it is quite distinctive with its rounded appearance and perfect skirt. I will get into 'snowdrop gear' and give it more thought.
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Have given it a bit more thought and would quite confidently add:-
Castlegar
Jonathan (looking out for the orange glow of course - without it I would be a bit lost)
Green Brush
woronowii
Blonde Inge (if it was behaving right as mine usually does)
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Good to see your brain is working in the middle of the night Jennie, mine has normally given up by then ;D ;D
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So is Yellow Angel a rather chlorotic looking variant of Angelique?
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Here's my contribution to the list:
Daglingworth
Deerslot
Godfrey Owen
Heffalump.
I am also tempted to add Sutton Courtney.
I would add Scharlockii, but, despite what the book says, my Warei sometimes has a split spathe
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Amended list now reads:
Ailwyn/Lady Fairhaven
Anglesey Abbey
Augustus
Blewbury Tart/Green Fingers
Blonde Inge
Blue Magnet
Castlegar
Daglingworth
Diggory
Ding Dong
EA Bowles
Elizabeth Harrison
Fly Fishing
Gloucester Old Spot
Godfrey Owen
Green Brush
Green Light/Green Hornet
Green Mile
Green Tear
Hans Guck
Heffalump
Hill Poe
Hippolyta
Lady Beatrix Stanley
Lady Elphinstone
Lapwing
Modern Art
Peter Gatehouse
Rosemary Burnham
Sickle
Sophie North
South Hayes
Sutton Courtenay
Swanton
Trymposter
Walrus
Wasp
Wendy's Gold
woronowii
Yellow Angel
I haven’t included ‘Jonathan' Jennie as you rightly point out that without the orange glow we’d all find it difficult and they were supposed to be ‘truly easy to recognise’. Likewise Bob ‘Deerslot’ although having the distinguishing mark, quite often only does it on one face so you wouldn’t recognise it from the ‘wrong’ side! I’m happy to be shot down here ;)
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...is Yellow Angel a rather chlorotic looking variant of Angelique?
one of the most exciting new snowdrops I've seen for ages: albino with a yellow ovary. It is called 'Yellow Angel'. ( http://johngrimshawsgardendiary.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/winter-gardens-tour.html (http://johngrimshawsgardendiary.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/winter-gardens-tour.html) )
I presume the photographs don't do it justice, Anne.
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Bob, I agree that the giant-spathe types (of which I believe 'Scharlockii' is the original) are very distinctive but the problem there is that they have been around for such a very long time that there are now many variants. On the one hand it seems unfair to exclude such a distinctive type of snowdrop but on the other hand it can be quite difficult to distinguish individual members within the group.
Jennie, I'm not sure if we can include a species (woronowii) rather than a named cultivar. And personally, I always have to look pretty hard to make sure I can distinguish between woronowii and ikariae. I don't disagree that the broad green leaves make these very distinctive snowdrop species.
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Ah, yes - it does look interesting.
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I've seen "yellow angel" in the flesh , immediately went to the top of my wants list
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I too would willingly give 'Yellow Angels' a home
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Brian
you're probably right about Deerslot - the first year I had it looked more like a horseshoe than a deer.
Yellow Angel looks good though - shame, I wasn't going to buy any more this year.
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Yellow Angel looks good though - shame, I wasn't going to buy any more this year.
I agree, but i wonder how long it will be before it is available?
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OK I agree Jonathan is a bit hit and miss should you miss the early orange glow & woronowii is a species.
What happened to Hippolyta on the list ? I think I would add 'Ding Dong' with its lighter shade of green, flower shape and shading.
I can't find a photo of Green Mile?
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http://www.greenmilenursery.be/ (http://www.greenmilenursery.be/)
New acquisition Jennie? I've added the others to the list.
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http://www.greenmilenursery.be/ (http://www.greenmilenursery.be/)
New acquisition Jennie? I've added the others to the list.
500 Euros! For one bulb! I wouldn't dare. What if it died? And I certainly would, because my wife would kill me!
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Don't worry, the Green Mile Nursery restricts orders to two bulbs per person so even a severe bout of White Fever would cost you a maximum of 1000 Euros! However it is a lovely-looking snowdrop to my eyes and very distinctive. As with any novel plant introduction, provided it is a good doer the price will come down.
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I happerned upon this slide today from our 2009 trip to Colesbourne. No hat - can't be correctly named. ;)
How are things with you Emma? Any word on the job?
johnw
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That snowdrop is still given pride of place at Colesbourne and I saw it last February, displayed amongst the rarest and finest. Yet it doesn't quite have a name, being labelled "Ex Emma Thick" instead of, for example, "Emma Thick". I like to call it "Emma's Ex" as a bit of a joke; but I seriously think it deserves to be granted a name in its own right.
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......and to identify a Galanthus cultivar you need a key, or a Galanthomanic that has the knowledge to put the labels back to the right cultivar.
Making a key is big fun and gives a clue how different similar cultivars are. I like to puzzle with keys and the key I started for the Galanthus Imperial Group is quite a challange. So for the fun I include the key for the Galanthus Double Group but only the first part.
Is the key to the whole Imperial group later in some book or where could I find it?
In the key of Double Group in the first page, Cordelia, Hippolyta and Ophelia are said to be similar. Are they also similar in height and flowering time? Or is the similarity only in the flower?
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That snowdrop is still given pride of place at Colesbourne and I saw it last February, displayed amongst the rarest and finest. Yet it doesn't quite have a name, being labelled "Ex Emma Thick" instead of, for example, "Emma Thick". I like to call it "Emma's Ex" as a bit of a joke; but I seriously think it deserves to be granted a name in its own right.
Perhaps the powers that be are supplying a name in the new edition of the monograph when it is published. Hopefully it will just be called 'Emma Thick'?
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Leena, the classification system favoured by Wim is presented in the book "Galanthomania" by Hanneke van Dijk. This system is based entirely on the appearance of the flower so it does not encompass the leaves, or the spathe, or the height of the plant or the time of flowering; all of which might help to render a snowdrop easy to recognise.
My knowledge of the Greatorex doubles is slight but I think they flower at much the same time but can differ in height. The main problem is that the naming of them has become confused, see http://www.galanthus.co.uk/catalogue_categories.php?categoryID=16 (http://www.galanthus.co.uk/catalogue_categories.php?categoryID=16)
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Alan - I have corrected my photo names. Yes this snowdrop was up by the main house and very close to 'Carolyn Elwes' so indeed a prominent - or precarious - spot.
I dashed off an email to Chris to find out if it had been named. I suspect the poor man is swamped with other tasks, the horrors of getting orders together for mad Canadians must have chewed up a considerable amount of his time this past summer.
One last phot of ex ET.
johnw - +9c and rising, a warm weekend ahead.
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Brian,I've just had quick look at the list and could not find 'Ronald Mackenzie'...and perhaps 'Hugh Mackenzie'? ;).Another one that i grow is 'Dodo Norton' ,on a sunny day, it's a joy look at.Last one today'Brian Mathew',the colour of the leaves as it pops up through the soil are instantly recognizable.The first time i saw it,i thought it had botrytis !!,the colour of the leaves are unique,and i haven't seen another elwesii with the same blue/green colour.a real gem worth looking for.
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Dear Leena,
Compiling keys within the Galanthus Cultivar Groups are just a hobby for me. The part I shared with this Forum might perhaps be a start for you to try to go further, I hope it is tempting enough to give it a try.
The keys for the Galanthus Gold Group as published in Galanthomania can be expanded too. But, as Alan write "based entirely on the appearance of the flower" is not true as can be seen on page 29 key no. 12 and on page 31 key no. 15 and key no. 21. When characteristics are run out for me, but perhaps not for the Galanthophile, I go further with characteristics from leaves, spathe, etc.
Best Wishes,
Wim
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Added Steve's latest:
Ailwyn/Lady Fairhaven
Anglesey Abbey
Augustus
Blewbury Tart/Green Fingers
Blonde Inge
Blue Magnet
Brian Mathew
Castlegar
Daglingworth
Diggory
Ding Dong
Dodo Norton
EA Bowles
Elizabeth Harrison
Fly Fishing
Gloucester Old Spot
Godfrey Owen
Green Brush
Green Light/Green Hornet
Green Mile
Green Tear
Hans Guck
Heffalump
Hill Poe
Hippolyta
Hugh Mackenzie
Lady Beatrix Stanley
Lady Elphinstone
Lapwing
Modern Art
Peter Gatehouse
Ronald Mackenzie
Rosemary Burnham
Sickle
Sophie North
South Hayes
Sutton Courtenay
Swanton
Trymposter
Walrus
Wasp
Wendy's Gold
woronowii
Yellow Angel
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My knowledge of the Greatorex doubles is slight but I think they flower at much the same time but can differ in height. The main problem is that the naming of them has become confused
Thanks Alan. :) Over here most snowdrops flower at the same time (after the snow has melted), but it is good to know which ones are very very early, because they might suffer from the snow here, and to me the differences in height are important for the overall impression of the snowdrops.
The lists in this thread are very good, thank you.
The part I shared with this Forum might perhaps be a start for you to try to go further, I hope it is tempting enough to give it a try.
I am so much novice with snowdrops and don't have many named snowdrops (and many of them are only planted within a year or two) yet so can't try to make keys myself, and this is why I thought that the keys would be helpful so that I didn't buy many similar looking snowdrops to start with.
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Hello Wim, here is a little extra for your hobby.
But all you other galanthophiles can use this easy golden thead, if you only want. ;)
It is my kind of snowdrop classification.
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Sorry Wim, I did not mean to misrepresent you. What I should have said is that the top level or first stage of your classification system is based on flower type, as it is with Hagen's alternative system. It would be interesting if Wim and/or Hagen could apply their classifications to the snowdrops in our list.
For example, I would say that the representatives of Wim's 'Gold Group' on the list are:
Blonde Inge
Elizabeth Harrison
Lady Elphinstone
Ronald Mackenzie
Wendy's Gold
Yellow Angel
Leena, if you bought one representative from each of Wim's 12 flower classes, or each of Hagen's 15, you could be sure that no two of those would closely resemble each other. Neither system has been in use for a long period of time so you might find that only a minority of bulb suppliers indicate a classification group for the snowdrops they sell. I have the impression that growers in the Netherlands are adopting Wim's system quite rapidly.
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Leena, if you bought one representative from each of Wim's 12 flower classes, or each of Hagen's 15, you could be sure that no two of those would closely resemble each other.
I counted I have 21 named snowdrops (and several from 6 different species), most of them belong to Hagen's first five groups (and I'm sure some of mine are very similar to each other, next spring will be interesting to see some flower for the first time), four to doubles and four to yellows. :) So it is a good start. :) And then I have many nameless G.elwesii, almost all different from each other, they were bought just as G.elwesii.
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Thanks for putting your classification up Hagen, I couldn't see it on your site, but it was late last night when I was looking ::)
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Use it, please use it Brian, and also all other Galanthophiles.
This classification is near, real near to "our" bible.
I had good discussions about this system with Matt and many more around the GALAS, but also here in Germany.
We need a classification, which goes parallel with the book "Snowdrops".
If not, we galanthophiles will be loosers in a chaos.
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And then I have many nameless G.elwesii, almost all different from each other, they were bought just as G.elwesii.
Galanthus elwesii can be very variable, both in the size of the plant and the markings on the inner petals. This makes it hard to find one that is truly unique based just on the markings on the petals, although some were named because they were the first exemplar found, 'Grumpy' for example.
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Galanthus elwesii can be very variable, both in the size of the plant and the markings on the inner petals. This makes it hard to find one that is truly unique based just on the markings on the petals.
This is why when I have started to buy new snowdrops I have selected mostly other than elwesii (except I did buy 'Cedric's Prolific'). First I want to wait and see all my unnamed elwesii- snowdrops clump up and compare them to each other. :)
The list of snowdrops in the previous page is good (I have so far only four which are in that list).
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Leena - Are all the elwesii vars. hardy for you? I wonder if others have had hardiness issues with any elwesiis. I thought someone mentioned last year that the Hiemalis could be a tad iffy.
johnw
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I have selected mostly other than elwesii (except I did buy 'Cedric's Prolific').
I think a snowdrop that is truly prolific (and produces flowers as well as leaves) is a valuable addition to any collection. I have not tried to grow 'Cedric's Prolific' myself; does it live up to its name?
My most prolific snowdrop is a plicatus (or possibly plicatus x nivalis) that is quite small when it flowers, although the leaves grow longer later in the season. I am unsure why it has done so well in my garden; perhaps the swift moth larvae don't like the taste? I have to lift and divide the clumps about every three years. It does not have a name. 'Green Light', although it had a slow start, in now doing quite well also.
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Leena - Are all the elwesii vars. hardy for you? I wonder if others have had hardiness issues with any elwesiis. I thought someone mentioned last year that the Hiemalis could be a tad iffy.
All my unnamed G.elwesii are hardy (they have even self seeded), but they are not very early. G.nivalis (I have three from different origins and one is later, the other two are earlier) is already now peaking from the ground, but not G.elwesii, plicatus or woronowii. G.nivalis shows it's noses every year before the winter comes and when the snow melts away in the spring, it just continues growing and opens the flowers.
I have once bought 'Barnes' (that's early elwesii, isn't it), it came in September and the bulb had already started to grow, but didn't have roots. It never came up later in that autumn or in the next spring.
Alan, I planted 'Cedric's Prolific' just last summer, so I hope it will be like it's name in years to come. How does it grow for others? G.nivalis is very prolific here and I think also nameless G.plicatus seems to like it here. :)
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I have been trying to research what Galanthus 'Blue Magnet@ looks like but the only thing I came up with was this http://www.zazzle.co.uk/snowdrop_blue_magnet-147173931237514623 (http://www.zazzle.co.uk/snowdrop_blue_magnet-147173931237514623) . Nice double mark on the inners but a very short pedicel to bear the name 'Magnet'!
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I have been trying to research what Galanthus 'Blue Magnet@ looks like but the only thing I came up with was this http://www.zazzle.co.uk/snowdrop_blue_magnet-147173931237514623 (http://www.zazzle.co.uk/snowdrop_blue_magnet-147173931237514623) . Nice double mark on the inners but a very short pedicel to bear the name 'Magnet'!
LOL, it's a magnet with a Galanthus on a blue background....I don't think there's a Galanthus 'Blue Magnet' ;)
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LOL, it's a magnet with a Galanthus on a blue background....I don't think there's a Galanthus 'Blue Magnet' ;)
Over to you Steve?
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Here's what Steve said so not a lot of good looking for a picture. Perhaps we ought to restrict the list to those that are available?
'Blue Magnet'was christened last year,Sorry no pictures,But i spotted it from ten yards.Matt B should have abit more information,but it will be a long time before it's available.
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Ailwyn/Lady Fairhaven some dispute over whether Lady Fairhaven actually is different
The Alburgh Claw
Anglesey Abbey
Augustus
Blewbury Tart/Green Fingers
Blonde Inge
Blue Magnet not yet in trade
Boyd's Double
Brian Mathew
Carolyn Elwes
Castle Green Dragon
Castlegar
Charlotte Jean
Corkscrew
Daglingworth
Diggory
Ding Dong
Dodo Norton
EA Bowles
Ecusson d'Or
Elizabeth Harrison
Fly Fishing
Fotini
Funny Justine
Gloucester Old Spot
Godfrey Owen
Grake's Gold
Green Brush
Green Light/Green Hornet
Green Mile
Green Tear
Hans guck in die Luft
Heffalump
Hill Poe
Hippolyta
Hoverfly
Hugh Mackenzie
Kencot Kali
Lady Beatrix Stanley
Lady Elphinstone
Lapwing
Modern Art
Moses Basket
Peter Gatehouse
Ronald Mackenzie
Rosemary Burnham
Sickle
Sophie North
South Hayes
Sutton Courtenay
Swanton
Trymposter
Walrus
Wasp
Wendy's Gold
woronowii
Yellow Angel not yet in trade
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Is this not on the list? Like it or not, it's easy to recognise ;D
Galanthus Boyd's Double
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Well I had avoided that ::) I'll add it Diane and while I'm at it I suppose we had better have 'Carolyn Elwes' :o I'm surprised no-one has volounteered 'The Alburgh Claw' but I suppose John is only just coming out of his summer hibernation ;D
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Hans guck in die Luft
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Apologies to our German friends, now corrected ;)
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What about as plants in the wider garden setting? These G. elwesii in Elizabeth Cairn's garden in Kent (derived from collections by Martyn Rix) are not especially striking in flower but magnificent foliage plants mixed with hellebores and other woodlanders. I counted about 14 out of Brian's list that I grow but recognition seems to be in the eye of the beholder! I have a feeling I might start collecting them again after a lull - the names are worth collecting as much as the plants; who could resist 'Long Tall Sally'?
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I happerned upon this slide today from our 2009 trip to Colesbourne. No hat - can't be correctly named. ;)
How are things with you Emma? Any word on the job?
johnw
No word on what's happening here other than place I'm at now will be put on the market in March . Went for a job interview up the road , great potential , great job for who ever gets it (please! please be me ) . I'm just waiting to hear if I have through to round two
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Perhaps the powers that be are supplying a name in the new edition of the monograph when it is published. Hopefully it will just be called 'Emma Thick'?
I don't think it's thought of high enough by the powers that be to give it a name officially . I will grow it still and love it . If anyone else wants to grow it , that's good enough for me .
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And if it were to be mentioned in Snowdrops 2 I'm not sure id be able to contain my happiness and could possibly never stop smiling !
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Tim, I agree that snowdrops can make excellent winter foliage plants, perhaps some of the elwesiis in particular. I am very partial to the foliage of Peter Gatehouse myself. And it is very easy to be tempted by a well-named plant. One of my favourite names, not a snowdrop, is Aster 'La Vista'. Amongst snowdrops I have always been drawn to 'Heffalump' on account of the name and conversely, repelled by 'Mr Blobby'.
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LOL, it's a magnet with a Galanthus on a blue background....I don't think there's a Galanthus 'Blue Magnet' ;)
:o :o :o
Wim,'Blue Magnet' was named the last saturday in February this year,and was on FULL display in two different places in the garden.I won't say here which garden,But you could ask me offline.
Next you'll be telling me that there's no double woronowii.............
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Is this not on the list? Like it or not, it's easy to recognise ;D Galanthus Boyd's Double
I must be asleep at the wheel. Surely we should add nivalis 'Grakes Gold' and the obvious number one on the list nivalis 'Funny Justine'.
johnw - tropical low, +12c, dark & ominous.
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This list would be a lovely for anyone to grow and if we are only going to add snowdrops that are available,or nearly available,why not add some green ones.I think we should add r-o 'Fotini' and plicatus'Castle Green Dragon'.
A yellow one that should be recognized is 'Ecusson d'Or',although we have 'Gold Crest' now,but that is a lot smaller.I agree with John about 'Grakes Gold'.
Should we add 'Charlotte Jean'?,is there another poc with a split spathe?
'Corkscrew'is another one that stands out,with it's twisted leaves ,prostrate on the ground.'Kencot Kali',another one that's worth a mention,with it's extremely long outer petals.
I think that's enough for tonight. ;D ;D ;D.
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I don't think it's thought of high enough by the powers that be to give it a name officially . I will grow it still and love it . If anyone else wants to grow it , that's good enough for me .
Who wouldn't want to grow it Emma?. :)
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Who wouldn't want to grow it Emma?. :)
Even I would - and that's saying something! ;D ;)
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Even I would - and that's saying something! ;D ;)
;D ;D
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Even I would - and that's saying something! ;D ;)
I shall have to send you one Maggi 8)
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I shall have to send you one Maggi 8)
Oh crumbs! I would be greatly honoured, Emma .
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I think we should stick to snowdrops that are available
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I think we should stick to snowdrops that are available
Cathy Portier has offered 'Funny Justine' in the past. No double 'Grake's Gold' will hit the streets one day soon.
johnw
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I think we should stick to snowdrops that are available
Availability is nebulous, however it would be nice if we could find images of all the snowdrops on the list. 'Blue Magnet' seems to be the one that is lacking a 'face' to put to the name. Here are links to images of the first two for starters:
Ailwyn: Some nice images in the second post here http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=6216.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=6216.0)
Alburgh Claw: http://www.snowdropinfo.com/galanthus%20nivalis%20alburgh%20claw.html (http://www.snowdropinfo.com/galanthus%20nivalis%20alburgh%20claw.html) (thanks to Mark)
Although widely available, I cannot find a good photo of Anglesey Abbey that shows both the leaf colour and some semi-poculiform flowers; it's the combination of the two characteristics that makes this one unique.
I'll try to continue linking to pictures as time permits; anybody else is welcome to help.
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Angelsey Abbey
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If I had a Trappist under my belt I think I could identify Melanie S. Two Trappist and well, forget it.
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I saw Moses Basket last spring for the first time without a look on the label ;D
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:o :o :o
Wim,'Blue Magnet' was named the last saturday in February this year,and was on FULL display in two different places in the garden.I won't say here which garden,But you could ask me offline.
Next you'll be telling me that there's no double woronowii.............
Sorry, Steve ;) Hadn't read your first response...should teach me to read the entire thread BEFORE placing a response ::)
The magnet though was just a regular Galanthus on a blue background.
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Diane Clement posted a picture of 'Boyd's Double' (reply #88) and there is a similar image here http://www.galanthus.co.uk/Upload_products/Boyds_double.JPG. (http://www.galanthus.co.uk/Upload_products/Boyds_double.JPG.) On the other hand, the pictures on the normally reliable Judy's Snowdrops web site look very different http://www.judyssnowdrops.co.uk/Plant_Profiles/nivalis/boyds_double/boyds_double.htm (http://www.judyssnowdrops.co.uk/Plant_Profiles/nivalis/boyds_double/boyds_double.htm) showing something that is a much deeper green with shorter fatter petals. Is Janet wrong on this one? Or is Boyd's Double very variable?
Either way, it's one to go in Wim's 'Spiky Group' classification along with 'The Alburgh Claw' & 'Blewbury Tart/Green Fingers. 'Walrus', on the other hand does, not fit the description of 'flower upright or more-or-less upright' so I guess it would have to go in Wim's 'Double Group' despite the long green spikes that are its distinctive feature. Is that correct, Wim?
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Diane Clement posted a picture of 'Boyd's Double' (reply #88) and there is a similar image here [url=http://www.galanthus.co.uk/Upload_products/Boyds_double.JPG]http://www.galanthus.co.uk/Upload_products/Boyds_double.JPG (http://www.galanthus.co.uk/Upload_products/Boyds_double.JPG)[/url] dot removed from url
On the other hand, the pictures on the normally reliable Judy's Snowdrops web site look very different http://www.judyssnowdrops.co.uk/Plant_Profiles/nivalis/boyds_double/boyds_double.htm (http://www.judyssnowdrops.co.uk/Plant_Profiles/nivalis/boyds_double/boyds_double.htm) showing something that is a much deeper green with shorter fatter petals. Is Janet wrong on this one? Or is Boyd's Double very variable? ..
They all look slightly different, but I would have thought this was acceptable variation down to stage of development or cultivation differences. Mine was taken at Margaret Owen's a couple of years ago so I would have thought it was the correct thing.
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This List gets longer. I'm pretty certain it's just a gallanthophilistic attempt to persuade the rest of us that they are all different :P ;D
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Au contraire, David, the ones that don't make the list are the ones you should call into question. Although it's entirely subjective, all the ones on the list are reckoned to be instantly recognisable and so necessarily 'all different'. It's a pity we cannot put a picture next to each of them; then you would see it's true.
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It's a pity we cannot put a picture next to each of them; then you would see it's true.
Why not?
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It's a pity we cannot put a picture next to each of them; then you would see it's true.
Once the list is complete I'll make a web page for them
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Thanks, Mark, you're a gem.
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I think we should stick to snowdrops that are available
If you know the right people,all are available. ;)
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I saw Moses Basket last spring for the first time without a look on the label ;D
Gerard,'Moses Basket'doesn't behave every year,so you will still probably need a label. ;D ;D ;D
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Here's another one that's very easy to identify 'Hoverfly'. :)
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Alan, I agree with you that 'Walrus' can be classfied in the Double Group and the others in the Galanthus Spiky Group. However, I classified Galanthus 'Green Fingers' in the Galanthus Double Group in the "cultivar name list" but Hanneke in the Spiky Group in Galanthomania. So I go along with the two of you and adjusted my records.
The classification by Hagen overlaps widely with the ICRA Register so that is good.
Alan, we had the discussion before in this Forum about 'Greenlight' versus 'Green Light'. The cultivar name is included in the "cultivar name list" as 'Greenlight' but you maintain the writing 'Green Light' so that means that this is the correct way of how to write this name? Perhaps you have a reference? Thanks for your help.
Best wishes,
Wim
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This thread is so fascinating. Mark, the photos will be so helpful. It would be great if each cultivar listed was accompanied by a few words capturing why it's on the list. You can't always tell from a photo. Maybe members who nominated each cultivar could supply that. I just made a master document and recorded all the comments from the thread about each nomination but many have none.
Things that seem unresolved:
Should Wendy's Gold be listed with Wandlebury Ring as Alan suggested?
What happened to G. elwesii White Perfection, G. r-o Autumn Snow, and G. nivalis Mark Solomon? Were they just examples of pocs you could tell apart from each other or should they be on the list?
What about worronowii vs. ikariae?
I am confused about Hippolyta being on the list because I understood that the Greatorex doubles cannot be told apart. Is it distinct?
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Wim, 'Green Light' was named by Joe Sharman, who had gained permission from the landowner for us to remove a few bulbs after I discovered it in 2004. It first appeared in print in his Sales List of 2008. I was going to attach a copy thereof but for some reason the file size is too large (it's the third entry on the second page). I would also refer you to replies 9, 12 & 14 on this thread http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=1204.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=1204.0) which are probably the first online references. The name is definitely 'Green Light'; I imagine 'Greenlight' arose as an accidental misprint or mistranscription.
I presume you would place it in your 'Green Group'?
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Carolyn,
The main problem with the Greatorex Doubles is not so much that they cannot be told apart but that not everybody will agree which one is which. The authors of "Snowdrops: A monograph of cultivated Galanthus" say about 'Hippolyta':
All stocks appear to agree...Confusion is only really likely with 'Barbara's Double'
I'm not really familiar with either 'Hippolyta' or 'Barbara's Double'; perhaps we should pair them together as we have done with a few others?
I think we should stick to cultivars and exclude species snowdrops so therefore drop woronowii from the list.
My problem with 'Wendy's Gold' and 'Wandlebury Ring' is that I need to see them together to distinguish one from the other - but perhaps that's just me.
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Can Mosquito be added to the list?
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Up to date list, I have removed Hippolyta as there is some disagreement - after all that is what the list is about! Also dropped woronowii as it was Alan's idea that started the thread! Any other comments on Carolyn's queries, particularly the poculiform snowdrops?
Ailwyn/Lady Fairhaven some dispute over whether Lady Fairhaven actually is different
The Alburgh Claw
Alison Hilary
Anglesey Abbey
Augustus
Autumn Snow
Blewbury Tart/Green Fingers
Blonde Inge
Blue Magnet not yet in trade
Boyd's Double
Brian Mathew
Carolyn Elwes
Castle Green Dragon
Castlegar
Chadwick's Cream
Chandler's Green Tip
Charlotte Jean
Cliff Curtis
Corkscrew
Daglingworth
David Bromley
Diggory
Ding Dong
Dodo Norton
EA Bowles
Ecusson d'Or
Elizabeth Harrison
Emerald Isle
Fee Clochette
Fly Fishing
Fotini
Funny Justine
Galadriel
Gloucester Old Spot
Godfrey Owen
Graham Shipham
Grake's Gold
Green Brush
Green Flash
Green Light/Green Hornet
Green Mile
Green Tear
Hans guck in die Luft
Heffalump
Hill Poë
Hippolyta/Barbara's double
Hoverfly
Hugh Mackenzie
Kencot Kali
Lady Beatrix Stanley
Lady Elphinstone
Lapwing
Little Emma
Michael Holecroft
Modern Art/Courteen Hall
Moses Basket
Mosquito
Norfolk Blonde
Peter Gatehouse
Ronald Mackenzie
Rosemary Burnham
Sickle
Sophie North
South Hayes
Sutton Courtenay
Swanton
Trimmer
Trymposter
Vera Trum
Walrus
Wasp
Wendy's Gold/Wandlebury Ring
Yellow Angel not yet in trade
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Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this list, many many lovely drops to lust over.
I am quite pleased that woronowii has been removed from the list despite the fact that it is one of the few that I can recognise easily. Actually I can recognise the form that I grow but there have been numerous pictures in previous threads showing woronowii (both in the wild and in gardens) that look distinctly different to "my" form. Would I recognise one of these as woronowii - probably not.
Chris
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Brian,I've thought about this list,alot ???.Firstly 'Modern Art' and 'Courteen Hall' I can't tell them apart :-\
There are quite alot that we should add...
Emerald Isle
Chandler's Green Tip
Green Flash
Norfolk Blonde
Trimmer
Little Emma
Vera Trum
Cliff Curtis
Fee Clochette
Galadriel
Alison Hilary
David Bromley
Michael Holecroft
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Brian,I've thought about this list,alot ???.Firstly 'Modern Art' and 'Courteen Hall' I can't tell them apart :-\
Yes I agree Steve, but how many people would actually buy 'Courteen Hall', it's not often seen whereas 'Modern Art' is. I haven't added yours to the list as it is next to it in the thread - and we've only just got in from our local AGS meeting.
Now added.
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We have already allowed some pairs of snowdrops which are themselves similar but otherwise distinctive from other snowdrops
So I don't know why we can't have
Modern Art/Courteen Hall
Hippolyta/Barbara's Double
Wendy's Gold/Wandlebury Ring
Steve, I think you should imagine you are presented with a decent clump of snowdrops (even in such instances where such a thing does not yet exist) so in cases where a snowdrop does not 'perform' every year (such as Moses Basket) I presume at least some will and therefore a clump of them could be easily identified where an individual snowdrop might not be.
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Well I am sure we can have exactly what we want as long as there is some agreement, so have added these Alan ;D
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I wouldn't add Vera Trum and maybe its because mine do not perform as they should. Mine look like they are simply G. plicatus. Anyone got photos?
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Is this the sort of thing you would like Carolyn ;)
Ailwyn, The Alburgh Claw, Alison Hilary, Anglesey Abbey
Augustus, Autumn Snow, Blewbury Tart, Blonde Inge
Boyd's Double, Brian Mathew, Carolyn Elwes, Castle Green Dragon
Pictures moved from other threads to make life easy! Thanks to forumists for posting them.
Now I must go and do some leaf clearing.
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that looks good Brian
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Cheers Mark, it will take a while but I must get some leaf clearing done in the garden as there are so many noses poking through and slugs are still hungry >:(
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Brian, carry on like that and you'll convince us there really IS a difference ;) ;D ;D
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I am a bit overwhelmed by the list but the pictures are excellent - probably good to have them in small doses so (relative) newcomers like me can digest them slowly! Even those first three groups of pictures have shown me four or five to look for!
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I find 'Hippolyta' to be one of the best doubles in our garden - tidier than most. 'Barbara's Double' seems more petite but we haven't grown it for long enough to properly compare.
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Thanks Tim, the size and flowering time are the main differences I'll add one of your pictures when I get to Hippolyta ;D
Ashley I feel the zeal to convert people after an AGS meeting last night ;D Here's another offering.
Castlegar, Chandler's Greentip, Charlotte Jean and Cliff Curtis.
First snag - has someone a picture of David Bromley please?
Corkscrew (the foliage being the defining characteristic! Daglingworth, David Bromley (??) Diggory
With thanks to Maggi for some assistance:
Ding Dong, Dodo Norton, EA Bowles and Ecusson d'Or Sorry about the error in first uploading!
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Ashley I feel the zeal to convert people after an AGS meeting last night ;D
Go for it, Brian!
Brian, carry on like that and you'll convince us there really IS a difference ;) ;D ;D
We'll see!
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Great work, Brian. You have a treasure trove of snowdrop pictures.
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Great work, Brian. You have a treasure trove of snowdrop pictures.
Not at all Alan, they are pictures by forumists on other threads collected together in one place. I expect photographs from most of the galanthophiles will make an appearance - unless they object. I wish I had so many myself ;D
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Next lot
Elizabeth Harrison, Emerald Isle, Fee Clochette, Fly Fishing Apologies I missed Finchale Abbey which is added at the end
Fotini, Funny Justine, Galadriel, Gloucester Old Spot
Godfrey Owen, Grake's Gold from IRG, Green Brush, Green Flash
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Thanks to all who are helping with this. Time for some sighs ;)
Green Light, Green Mile, Green Tear, Hans guck in die Luft
Green Hornet : http://www.nationaltrustimages.org.uk/image/189879 (http://www.nationaltrustimages.org.uk/image/189879)
Heffalump, Hill Poë, Hippolyta, Hoverfly
Hugh Mackenzie, Kencot Kali, Lady Beatrix Stanley, Lady Elphinstone
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Great work Brian, thanks a lot !! Maybe another one that can be added to the list is Niv. Chadwick's Cream ;) and Plicatus
Graham Shipham.
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Brian, ::) ::) ::)
They look superb.Keep up the good work.
Ding Dong, Dodo Norton, EA Bowles and Ecusson d'Or
Ecusson d'Or looks like Dodo Norton. :)
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Steve, I think you should imagine you are presented with a decent clump of snowdrops (even in such instances where such a thing does not yet exist) so in cases where a snowdrop does not 'perform' every year (such as Moses Basket) I presume at least some will and therefore a clump of them could be easily identified where an individual snowdrop might not be.
Alan,Fair point, i wish i had a clump to compare.......but just because you haven't seen it,doesn't mean it does not yet exist..... ;)
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Lapwing, Little Emma, Michael Holecroft, Modern Art/Courteen Hall
Moses Basket, Mosquito, Norfolk Blonde, Peter Gatehouse
Ronald Mackenzie, Rosemary Burnham, Sickle, Sophie North
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Ecusson :D d'Or looks like Dodo Norton. :)
Not any more :D Glad someone is paying attention Steve ;D
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Great job Brian - now you have me wanting more snowdrops!
Fee Clochette ♥♥♥
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Is this the sort of thing you would like Carolyn ;)
Now I must go and do some leaf clearing.
Brian, I am absolutely thrilled with your photos. So many snowdrops, so little time....I mean money. I always consoled myself here in the galanthus deprived US that there really weren't that many distinct snowdrops so eventually I would have enough. Alas, you have shattered that illusion.
I do want to digest the photos and see if I can tell them all apart. Already I think some of the virescent cultivars look very similar. And for the classic single whites, it would help to have the most important characteristic pointed out, i.e., is it strictly the mark, the flower shape, the angle of the petals, or some combination? Not that I expect you to supply that or you will never do any leaf clearing. Your efforts are very much appreciated as they are.
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Great job Brian - now you have me wanting more snowdrops!
Fee Clochette ♥♥♥
I hadn't noticed you'd stopped wanting them Jennie ;D ;D
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South Hayes, Sutton Courtenay, Swanton,Trymmer/Trimmer
Trymposter, Vera Trum, Walrus, Wasp
Wendy's Gold/Wandlebury Ring (this the latter)
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...and here an updated
Green Light, Green Mile, Green Tear, Hans guck in die Luft
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Brian, I am absolutely thrilled with your photos. So many snowdrops, so little time....I mean money.
I do want to digest the photos and see if I can tell them all apart. Already I think some of the virescent cultivars look very similar. And for the classic single whites, it would help to have the most important characteristic pointed out, i.e., is it strictly the mark, the flower shape, the angle of the petals, or some combination? Not that I expect you to supply that or you will never do any leaf clearing. Your efforts are very much appreciated as they are.
You are very welcome Carolyn but you must also thank all those who have allowed their photographs from the forum and elsewhere to be used, Maggi for forwarding a massive selection of photographs and Alan Briggs for the suggestion, as well as the forumists who offered their suggestions - a real collaborative effort.
Besides a few of my photos the following are to be thanked:
Alan Briggs
Cathy Portier
David King
Diane Clement
Fermi de Sousa
Hagen Engelmann
Hans Joschko
Ian Christie
Ian McEnery
Jennie Syvers
John Finch
John Gennard
John & Janet Lecore
John Weagle
Luit van Delft
Mark Smyth
Melvyn Jope
Paddy Tobin
Steve Owen
Steve Thomson
Tim Ingram
Valentin Wijnen - use of Valentin's copyright photo of Grake's Gold from the IRG (edit added by Maggi)
Wolfgang Vorig
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A better Hill Poe here:
Heffalump, Hill Poe, Hippolyta, Hoverfly
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Great work Brian, thanks a lot !! Maybe another one that can be added to the list is Niv. Chadwick's Cream ;) and Plicatus
Graham Shipham.
Now added to the list Richard although we should point out that these are extremely hard to come by at the present time ;)
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I hadn't noticed you'd stopped wanting them Jennie ;D ;D
I know Brian.....I am a hopeless case. Have opened up a few areas in the woodlands though....so can't stop now ;)
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Brian,I've thought about this list,alot ???.Firstly 'Modern Art' and 'Courteen Hall' I can't tell them apart :-\
There are quite alot that we should add...
Emerald Isle
Chandler's Green Tip
Green Flash
...
We are still short of a picture of Green Flash, it would be nice to round this off if we could. Can anyone oblige please?
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With thanks to John and Janet Lecore this completes the pictures?
Godfrey Owen, Grake's Gold from IRG, Green Brush, Green Flash
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I have grouped everything together again here so that it is easier to see them all, so here we go
Ailwyn/Lady Fairhaven The Alburgh Claw Alison Hilary Anglesey Abbey Augustus Autumn Snow
Berthille not yet in trade Blewbury Tart/Green Fingers Blonde Inge Blue Magnet not yet in trade Boyd's Double Brian Mathew
Carolyn Elwes Castle Green Dragon Castlegar Chadwick's Cream Chandler's Green Tip Charlotte Jean Cliff Curtis Corkscrew
Daglingworth David Bromley Diggory Ding Dong Dodo Norton
EA Bowles Ecusson d'Or Elizabeth Harrison Emerald Isle
Fee Clochette Fly Fishing Fotini Funny Justine
Galadriel Gloucester Old Spot Godfrey Owen Graham Shipham Grake's Gold Green Brush Green Flash Green Light/Green Hornet Green Mile Green Tear
Hans guck in die Luft Heffalump Hill Poë Hippolyta/Barbara's double Hoverfly Hugh Mackenzie
Kencot Kali
Lady Beatrix Stanley Lady Elphinstone Lapwing Little Emma
Margaret Biddulph Michael Holecroft Modern Art/Courteen Hall Moses Basket Mosquito Norfolk Blonde
Parcel Peter Gatehouse
Ronald Mackenzie Rosemary Burnham
Sickle Sophie North South Hayes Sutton Courtenay Swanton
Trymmer Trymposter
Valentine's Day Vera Trum
Walrus Wasp Wendy's Gold/Wandlebury Ring
Yellow Angel not yet in trade
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Ailwyn, The Alburgh Claw, Alison Hilary, Anglesey Abbey
Augustus, Autumn Snow, Blewbury Tart, Blonde Inge
Boyd's Double, Brian Mathew, Carolyn Elwes, Castle Green Dragon
Castlegar, Chandler's Greentip, Charlotte Jean and Cliff Curtis.
Corkscrew (the foliage being the defining characteristic!), Daglingworth, David Bromley, Diggory
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Ding Dong, Dodo Norton, EA Bowles and Ecusson d'Or
Elizabeth Harrison, Emerald Isle, Fee Clochette, Fly Fishing Apologies I missed Finchale Abbey which is added at the end
Fotini, Funny Justine, Galadriel, Gloucester Old Spot
Godfrey Owen, Grake's Gold from IRG, Green Brush, Green Flash
Green Light, Green Mile, Green Tear, Hans guck in die Luft
Green Hornet : http://www.nationaltrustimages.org.uk/image/189879 (http://www.nationaltrustimages.org.uk/image/189879)
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Heffalump, Hill Poë, Hippolyta, Hoverfly
Hugh Mackenzie, Kencot Kali, Lady Beatrix Stanley, Lady Elphinstone
Lapwing, Little Emma, Michael Holecroft, Modern Art/Courteen Hall
Moses Basket, Mosquito, Norfolk Blonde, Peter Gatehouse
Ronald Mackenzie, Rosemary Burnham, Sickle, Sophie North
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South Hayes, Sutton Courtenay, Swanton,Trymmer/Trimmer
Trymposter, Vera Trum, Walrus, Wasp
Wendy's Gold/Wandlebury Ring (this the latter)
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That's a truly magnificent job you have done there, Brian.
In case anybody finds there way here looking for snowdrop pictures, I think it's also worth giving links to other online snowdrop picture repositories, of which the best are:
http://www.judyssnowdrops.co.uk/Plant_Profiles/plant_profiles.htm (http://www.judyssnowdrops.co.uk/Plant_Profiles/plant_profiles.htm) maintained by Janet Lecore
http://www.snowdropinfo.com/galanthusgallery.htm (http://www.snowdropinfo.com/galanthusgallery.htm) maintained by our own Mark Smyth
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Beat me too it Alan :D
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Thanks Brian
John Finch is missing this thread
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That's a truly magnificent job you have done there, Brian.
In case anybody finds there way here looking for snowdrop pictures, I think it's also worth giving links to other online snowdrop picture repositories, of which the best are:
http://www.judyssnowdrops.co.uk/Plant_Profiles/plant_profiles.htm (http://www.judyssnowdrops.co.uk/Plant_Profiles/plant_profiles.htm) maintained by Janet Lecore
http://www.snowdropinfo.com/galanthusgallery.htm (http://www.snowdropinfo.com/galanthusgallery.htm) maintained by our own Mark Smyth
And - it must be said - a search for snowdrop pix here in the forum (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?action=search) ( as indeed for so many other plants 8) ) will generate more results than you might imagine - nearly all the phoots used by Brian in his excellent compilation work have been drawn from the forum - the Galanthus area here is really second to none................ :)
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That's a truly magnificent job you have done there, Brian.
I agree. :)
Thank you Brian!
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Thank you for all that precious time in producing the compilation Brian.
A web site which I use a lot to see what a drop looks like is http://www.galanthus-online.de/ (http://www.galanthus-online.de/)
John(M)
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Super!
Thank you Brian!
Here on the fringes of the white fever I do not have a chance to see them in nature. So the more pictures the better.
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Thanks Brian
John Finch is missing this thread
He may be missing it but he is in it!
Thank you all for your kind comments, I thoroughly enjoyed doing it (better than gardening on a dank day), if I can get the use of some photos of those not appearing would happily add them. I learned a bit too, I'd not come across Michael Holecroft and will definitely now look out for it.
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Brian,Superb job. :o :owhen you see them all together,and people say they all look the same ;D ;D
P.S.Has Janet had a name change? ;)
Regards
Steve Thompson
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P.S.Has Janet had a name change? ;)
Oh dear I am failing all round, if only you were snowdrops I would get it right ;D Apologies Steve, you'll get a name change too!
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Oh dear I am failing all round, if only you were snowdrops I would get it right ;D Apologies Steve, you'll get a name change too!
Now it's ready to get published ;D.
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Now it's ready to get published ;D.
A Pocket Guide to Distinctive Snowdrops certainly has a ring to it and would be very useful.
Thanks again, Brian.
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;D ;D ;D
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Wow! Wonderful job Brian....you are very good at this. Now, I would be over the moon to have all of those in my collection - doubt I have even a third :( It's a shame John F is missing the thread as I am sure he would have added a few more.
Thoroughly enjoyed this thread - thank you everyone.
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http://www.greenmilenursery.be/ (http://www.greenmilenursery.be/)
New acquisition Jennie? I've added the others to the list.
Sorry for the delayed answer Brian. Sadly, this one is not & probably will not be in my collection for some years to come !!
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Great listing, Brian
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Superb job, everybody, and a very helpful one!
I bite my (electronic) tongue since you started this thread...
Shall I dare suggest that the "Galanthus with petticoat", which was discovered last year in the garden of a friend of mine, obviously belongs to this list?
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10185.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10185.0)
It's not yet in the trade, but an agreement was reached last year with a french nursery: it will be introduced it in the near future under the name:
Galanthus nivalis 'Berthille'
(sounds like: "bear-tea-y" ;))
And it should be listed in a book about snowdrops (in english), to be published next year.
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This is wonderful, very nice to have a list of easily recognisable snowdrops!
What do you think about Galanthus plicatus 'Parcel'? http://www.vrvforum.be/forum/index.php?topic=1043.msg38210#msg38210 (http://www.vrvforum.be/forum/index.php?topic=1043.msg38210#msg38210)
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Galanthus nivalis 'Berthille'
(sounds like: "bear-tea-y" ;))
[/quote]
I like it
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My goodness me what an omission Zephirine, you should definitely not have been biting your tongue, and that's another I shall look out for when it is introduced. Do let us all know when the nursery introduces it. I have added it to the list. I shall have to look at the groups of photos again by the time we have finished ::)
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'Berthille' is charming - I well remember your comments about the gender of flowers at the time of Zeph's first post on it, Brian ::) ( Still waiting for the tartan 'drop that clearly shows a masculine flair for the kilt)
'Parcel' is certainly distinctive - I have no doubts these two will both prove popular when they become available.
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Thank you for your support, Mark, Brian and Maggi! :-*
I will certainly keep you all informed on 'Berthille's progress, naturally!
I do hope it won't be long before it is available, since the original stock consisted in 50 bulbs.(which is quite a good start, I presume?)
The only thing that might delay it, is the fact that the nursery is moving to another location at the moment...
So I'll wait for the owner to give me the "green light", before I can tell you more!
I personnally love "Parcel"! So unusual! It really looks like a true drop, I mean..a tear drop!
Could be used as a micro-sporran too, Maggi, don't you think? ;)
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I have just looked at 'Parcel' too, I don't know another plicatus like it hopefully it will continue to display this arrangement of tepals (I note it is only two seasons old) and ought to go in the list don't you think?
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It's not yet in the trade, but an agreement was reached last year with a french nursery: it will be introduced it in the near future under the name:
Galanthus nivalis 'Berthille'
I had thought about that snowdrop as one that was highly distinctive and I would have nominated it myself - but I did not know that it had a name until I saw this post.
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'Parcel' ... ought to go in the list don't you think?
I do indeed, Brian. Even despite the fact that 'Parcel' is hardly the most poetical of names; personally the flowers remind me of a Chinese Lantern
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Love Parcel - they look like little bells - a charming look.
Berthille is unique too. It's just amazing how many looks still keep emerging from a little white flower - or are we just all bonkers?!! :o
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Yes and yes, Jennie. It is amazing and we are all bonkers. At least on the forum we can be bonkers in a nice sociable way and share our crazy passion for snowdrops.
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Bonkers but happy 8)
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Bonkers but happy 8)
I don't think there's anything bonkers about crawling round on your hands and knees in sub zero temperatures studying the subtle differences in tiny little white things.Although thinking about it........... ;D
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As someone who has grown plants all his life just seeing those shoots appearing through the ground now is as good as all those different varieties - cold winter days can be very exhilarating - not too different from clambering up into the mountains. I think my favourite is probably 'Gerard Parker', which came from Graham Gough quite a few years ago. I like it particularly since it is fertile and produces good slightly variable seedlings. However, I can't think of snowdrops in isolation - it is the mix they make with hellebores, cyclamen, crocus under deciduous trees and shrubs which is so wonderful. The fact that the smallest of gardens can have this is the excitement, plus that every garden is different.
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One I still miss on the list is Margaret Biddulph. Maybe it is a little forgotten because some new virescent snowdrops are for
sale the last years. But it still is a great snowdrop in my eyes :o
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And now I am thinking about it......Valentine's Day from Valentin Wijnen is one that should be on the list also. I will ask
Valentin for a picture we can use for the forum.
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And now I am thinking about it......Valentine's Day from Valentin Wijnen is one that should be on the list also. I will ask
Valentin for a picture we can use for the forum.
Valentin gave us use of this photo for his article in the IRG : photo is his copyright, of course.
edit to add link to that issue of IRG : http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2013Jan241359046525IRG37Jan2013.pdf (http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2013Jan241359046525IRG37Jan2013.pdf)
G. 'Valentine's Day' © Valentin Wijnen
[attachimg=1]
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Thanks Maggie, think the photo will speak for itself :o
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One more picture I did get from Valentin of Valentine's Day :)
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One more picture I did get from Valentin of Valentine's Day :)
Very nice - two flowers in the picture are so appropriate!
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It's a shame John F is missing the thread as I am sure he would have added a few more.
If you were wondering what has become of him, John F paid a quick visit to this thread: http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11157.msg289145#msg289145 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11157.msg289145#msg289145)
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If you were wondering what has become of him, John F paid a quick visit to this thread: http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11157.msg289145#msg289145 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11157.msg289145#msg289145)
Quite so - after a busy year he's off for what we hope will be great holiday in Madeira..... lucky dog!
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About truly easy to recognise i do find G Lady Puttman quite similar to Valentines Day or are they the same ??? Both are finds in the Netherlands.
Truly easy to recognise from other snowdrops but not from each other!
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There is always the possibility that the unique snowdrops of today will lose their position if and when similar-looking rivals emerge. Inverse-poculiform nivalis snowdrops have been extremely rare so 'Valentines Day' stands out. But John F. and I together have found a few that will add to the numbers if they survive and I presume 'Lady Puttman' is another such. Do you have a picture of 'Lady Puttman', Gerard?
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There are some more inverse poculiforme from G. nivalis:
PUMPOT
NEVER BEFORE
NOBODY IS PERFECT
So it is not only a question to distinguish between VALENTINE`S DAY and LADY PUTTMAN.
Who of us can say: I know all types?
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There are some more inverse poculiforme from G. nivalis:
PUMPOT
NEVER BEFORE
NOBODY IS PERFECT
So it is not only a question to distinguish between VALENTINE`S DAY and LADY PUTTMAN.
Who of us can say: I know all types?
Hagen,Another one that is out there is 'Decora'.
I think the problem is with snowdrops,is the differences are so subtle that we need all the plants together to tell them apart.Over the last few years i've being buyiny the commoner snowdrops from different dealers,and to my surprise not many of them are the same clone. :( :( :(
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Hey Steve, you always need only the right clone :D. But, which is it? ;)
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Hi Steve,
Which commoner snowdrops have you been collecting? And why did you start doing it in the first place??
I’ve posted before on this forum about my ‘scentless’ Sam Arnotts, when all the catalogues rave about the fragrance. I was thinking about buying SA, from as many different sources as I could, to see what I got. But maybe you’ve done it already?
Tim DH
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I'd say most snowdrops are scented
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I'd say most snowdrops are scented
It does matter where you plant them...if they are in pots and are brought indoors you very soon detect the scents, outside it is not such an easy matter!
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I agree with Brian. To catch the scent of snowdrops outdoors you need an unusually warm still day. Bring them indoors and it's easy.
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for your thoughts on snowdrop scent, but you’ll see from the attached photo that I ought to be able to smell them… This clump nestles in a corner of the greenhouse. I do wonder if the problem is my nose! One of my other ‘hats’ is bee-keeping, so I’m often immersed in honey scent! Perhaps the snowdrop’s effort is too subtle for me to pick up.
Then again, none of my visitors has ever commented on Sam Arnott’s scent.
Tim DH
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Hi Steve,
Which commoner snowdrops have you been collecting? And why did you start doing it in the first place??
I’ve posted before on this forum about my ‘scentless’ Sam Arnotts, when all the catalogues rave about the fragrance. I was thinking about buying SA, from as many different sources as I could, to see what I got. But maybe you’ve done it already?
Tim DH
Hi Tim,
Sorry for the delay(I think it's christmas :P).I have been collecting everthing but S.Arnott.I think it's sterile?so no seedlings to mix up.I've got two versions of 'Lady Beatrix Stanley', 'The Pearl','Doncaster's Double Scharlock' and 'Melvillei'.I know there are a couple more out there.I WILL NOT say where they came from :-X,because that wouldn't be fair.That's probably left you with more questions than answers.......But it doesn't hurt to buy the same plant from different places...... ;D
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'Snowdrops, like primroses, should be in every garden, but there are so many species, hybrids and garden forms of Galanthus that it is sometimes difficult for the ordinary mortal to select the right ones for his garden'. Believe it or not this was written just over fifty years ago in the December edition of the AGS Bulletin - 1967! The author goes on: 'This means that snowdrops for garden decoration should be large enough to make a show when seen at 20 yards range. There is no place, therefore, for G. rizehensis - charming and early flowering though it is - for at that range it is difficult to distinguish the flowers from the droppings of a small bird.'
Here is G. rizehensis close up - a lovely plant - and at ten yards nestled a foot or two in front of the magnolia stems in the distance. Granted the surrounding weeds help it meld in (!) but it is a plant to cherish by its discovery in the garden, rather than its boldness.
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every collection of snowdrops should include the species
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Trying again - I think the image didn't save properly on my computer. This is a weedy part of our garden that needs some attention!
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I'd say most snowdrops are scented
I agree, as I bring the flowers in to photograph, very few are not scented.
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Tim
"Believe it or not this was written just over fifty years ago in the December edition of the AGS Bulletin - 1967!" - I don't believe it, but I might in 3 years!
Frazer
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Hi Brian,
Do you think it would be a good idea to modify your first post in this thread with a foot note to point newbies to post #162 on p11?
Apart from that…. Do you think the collection/catalogue is a historical document? A snapshot of the way things were in 2013?? Or is it an evolving thing?
Tim DH
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Tim (butting in before Brian responds) I am broadly of the same opinion that I held in 2013.
The longer a snowdrop cultivar exists, the more likely it is that someone will find another one that looks similar. Just look at 'Magnet' which was followed by 'Wisley Magnet', 'Benton Magnet' and now 'Blue Magnet', which I don't think I have ever heard of before. All these are distinguishable but still tend to make the original less distinct. ...
There is also a chance that random mutations can result in diversity amongst what is nominally the same clone. ...
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Do you think it would be a good idea to modify your first post in this thread with a foot note to point newbies to post #162 on p11?
Thanks for the suggestion Tim, I have done that now.
Do you think the collection/catalogue is a historical document? A snapshot of the way things were in 2013?? Or is it an evolving thing?
Tim DH
I would hope that people would use it as perhaps a starting point, substituting newer (better?) varieties for those on the list which would give a wonderfully diverse collection. All in all it really is a question of personal preference, when we undertook the compilation a huge number of people had some input so in lots of ways it was an amalgamation of their views - not necessarily mine...after all what does it matter what I think - it is up to the individual to assess what they want to grow and I hope that this acts as a pointer. Some snowdrops, of course, could not be substituted ;)