Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: Roma on November 01, 2013, 09:41:52 PM

Title: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Roma on November 01, 2013, 09:41:52 PM
My first Galanthus corcyrensis of the year
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Alan_b on November 02, 2013, 10:57:29 AM
I've always known these snowdrops as reginae-olgae, I think.  I get a bit confused by some of these older snowdrop names; can somebody explain origin of the name "corcyrensis"?
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Martin Baxendale on November 02, 2013, 11:20:38 AM
Corcyra (latinised into the name corcyrensis) is the ancient Greek name for Corfu. where so-called G. corcyrensis was originally found. G. corcyrensis was originally the name given to an autumn flowering reginae-olgae type snowdrop with quite a large inner mark and well developed leaves at flowering time and eventually came to be used as the catch-all name for any autumn flowering reginae-olgae type snowdrop with leaves at flowering time, as opposed to reginae-olgae itself which was said to always flower without leaves - until it became clear that length of leaf at flowering time was variable throughout the distribution of reginae-olgae and wasn't a reliable morphological distinguishing feature.
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Roma on November 02, 2013, 02:13:40 PM
This snowdrop was growing at the Cruickshank Botanic Garden when I started work there in 1977.  It increases well by division and seed.  I must get there some time when it is in flower to photograph the big drift of it.  There it grows in a south facing bed with good drainage.  In my garden the original planting is at the back of the house and gets little or no sun all the time it is above ground.  When I split up some clumps earlier this year I planted some in the front garden with more sun and better drainage.  I had forgotten till I saw the flower among the birch leaves.  Flowering time varies but is usually from early November and can go on till late January depending on weather.  I think this is the same snowdrop Rod Begbie  -  Galanthus.co.uk  -  says he got from the late Dr Noel Pritchard, former Curator of the CBG who got it from Primrose Warburg.   I am no Galanthus expert.  I grow a few of the common species and a few cultivars but have no interest in acquiring a large collection.
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Alan_b on November 03, 2013, 07:38:24 AM
Thank you very much for that explanation, Martin.  My experience of G. reginae-olgae (/corcyrensis) is based mostly on an example of the species bought as three bulbs from Avon Bulbs well over a decade ago.  I find:

It is reluctant to flower in the less-sunny areas of my garden or if grown outdoors in a pot.
In any one location it usually prospers for a few years then fades away or disappears (so I have never managed a 'big drift').
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on November 03, 2013, 07:44:10 AM
I also have big drifts only in a few small pots ::).
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Paddy Tobin on November 03, 2013, 03:41:54 PM
G. reginae olgae 'Sofia' in flower today.
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on November 03, 2013, 06:15:33 PM
SOFIA is also blooming here. Good plant!!!
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Anthony Darby on November 04, 2013, 07:35:19 AM
Thanks for that about corcyrensis Martin. I didn't see it on my one and only trip to Corfu. My pot didn't flower last autumn (it flowered the previous two), but I had plenty of leaves.
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: WimB on November 04, 2013, 07:39:41 AM
Some Galanthus in flower here now:

Galanthus peshmenii
and Galanthus cilicicus
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: MR GRUMPY on November 06, 2013, 07:27:00 PM
Nice plants Wim,Do you grow G.cilicicus outside in the garden or protected in a alpine house/Cold frame?
 :) Any Eranthis up yet? :)
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: WimB on November 07, 2013, 08:00:41 AM
Nice plants Wim,Do you grow G.cilicicus outside in the garden or protected in a alpine house/Cold frame?
 :) Any Eranthis up yet? :)

Thanks Steve, I grow it outdoors and it survived last winter without any problems!
No Eranthis....yet  ;D
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Gerard Oud on November 07, 2013, 05:44:03 PM
I do have Barnes, Santa Claus, Hollis and ro Maria flowering over here and a few sprouts from others. Will try to post pics when i have time to make them. I do leave home when its dark and i arrive home when its dark. I do hope for some good weather this weekend!
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Pauli on November 08, 2013, 03:27:14 PM
Galanthus reginae olgae is just starting to flower here.
I only have that late flowering, but very robust type - perhaps somebody has an early flowering type for exchange next year----
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Gerard Oud on November 08, 2013, 05:45:25 PM
Made these in the breaktime!

nr 1 Hollis
nr 2 Maria almost eaten! :'(
nr 3 Barnes
nr 4 Santa Claus a bit early this year ;D
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Gerard Oud on November 08, 2013, 05:48:37 PM
Some very early birds in the wild plicatus :o :o
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Oakwood on November 12, 2013, 10:15:07 PM
Here Galanthus cilicicus is actual in SE Ukraine!!  ;)
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: ian mcenery on November 13, 2013, 12:30:31 AM
Here Galanthus cilicicus is actual in SE Ukraine!!  ;)

Dima it is strange what determines flowering  my cilicicus are barely above ground yet

Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Brian Ellis on November 13, 2013, 10:06:22 AM
Amazing Dima,  are they in a frame?
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Oakwood on November 13, 2013, 09:19:57 PM
Ian, this one obtained from Chris Sancham, it blooms every year something near this time - mid-November till March. And this one is a very huge clone. Last summer Hans Achilles shared with me his G. cilicicus which even didn't appear till now at soil level....


Brian - yes, they are in a frame but from frosty period, not yet. We have usually snowy winter up to -20C sometimes. But last week-end was exceptionally sunny with +15C  ;D
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: steve owen on November 18, 2013, 11:05:21 AM
This pot of Autumn Beauty has been flowering since mid-October.
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: MR GRUMPY on November 18, 2013, 08:23:36 PM
A lovely clump Steve,thanks for sharing  :)
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Paddy Tobin on November 19, 2013, 02:33:26 PM
And in great condition, Steve. Lovely clump!
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Alan_b on November 19, 2013, 03:38:46 PM
If I remember correctly, there was some controversy a few years ago as to whether 'Autumn Beauty' was a single clone (producing flowers that all had the same markings) or something more akin to a group of similar but non-identical snowdrops.  Now that some time has passed, are we any the wiser? 
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Pauli on November 19, 2013, 05:48:40 PM
My clump of r-o still going strong  ;D
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Brian Ellis on November 19, 2013, 06:14:59 PM
Great clump Pauli, thanks for sharing it with us.
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Carolyn Walker on November 19, 2013, 10:27:56 PM
I have been watching this G. elwesii in my garden for a few years.  It blooms in very early November before the leaves emerge fully and so far reliably produces these bright green tips on the outers.  Also the ovary is an unusual shape and very dark green.  The flowers are plump and round and evenly shaped.
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Martin Baxendale on November 19, 2013, 10:31:25 PM
That's very, very nice, Carolyn.
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Brian Ellis on November 19, 2013, 10:49:15 PM
Very distinctive Carolyn, I love the shape of the receptacle with the outer green marks it's a real bonus!
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Martin Baxendale on November 19, 2013, 10:50:26 PM
That's worth chipping and bulking up.
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Alan_b on November 19, 2013, 10:57:58 PM
Definitely one to treat with some T.L.C, Carolyn.  I cannot think of any named cultivars which are green-tipped and autumn flowering.  So I suggest at the very least you don't place all your eggs in one basket by keeping all the stock in a single location - or does that go without saying?     
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Carolyn Walker on November 20, 2013, 12:25:54 AM
That's worth chipping and bulking up.

So nice to get such positive feedback.  Hate to admit it but I have never chipped anything.  I only have the two plants from a G. elwesii bulb planted in a pot in fall 2011 and then in the ground in spring 2012.  This is it's third year to bloom, and I moved it in fall 2013 so I could observe it.  The poor thing probably needs a rest.

I plant 400 dried G. elwesii in pots every year and the resulting plants vary  tremendously.  Quite a good percentage of fall bloomers.
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Carolyn Walker on November 20, 2013, 12:28:37 AM
Definitely one to treat with some T.L.C, Carolyn.  I cannot think of any named cultivars which are green-tipped and autumn flowering.  So I suggest at the very least you don't place all your eggs in one basket by keeping all the stock in a single location - or does that go without saying?     

Nothing goes without saying as far as I am concerned.  But with two plants what would you suggest in terms of preservation?
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Carolyn Walker on November 20, 2013, 12:33:58 AM
So nice to get such positive feedback.  Hate to admit it but I have never chipped anything.  I only have the two plants from a G. elwesii bulb planted in a pot in fall 2011 and then in the ground in spring 2012.  This is it's third year to bloom, and I moved it in fall 2013 so I could observe it.  The poor thing probably needs a rest.

I plant 400 dried G. elwesii in pots every year and the resulting plants vary  tremendously.  Quite a good percentage of fall bloomers.

Sorry, I moved it last fall (not 2013) with all the other fall bloomers so I could watch them move closely.
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Alan_b on November 20, 2013, 12:44:50 AM
...But with two plants what would you suggest in terms of preservation?

If I had two (or a few more) bulbs of a snowdrop I particularly wanted to preserve I would lift and divide them then keep them in two separate locations to reduce the risk.  My garden has snowdrop-eating insects so the risk here is moderately high but I think the principle is sound in all cases.  However I don't usually lift and divide in the autumn for fear that the resultant stress combined with possible subsequent severe winter weather might prove too much. 
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Brian Ellis on November 20, 2013, 09:44:07 AM
This is it's third year to bloom, and I moved it in fall 2013 so I could observe it. 

Then you have done the right thing, presumably this means that you know exactly where it is (if not mark it) so that, when the leaves died down you could lift one of the bulbs and have a go at chipping - it's not rocket science ;)
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Alan_b on November 20, 2013, 12:14:30 PM
... have a go at chipping - it's not rocket science ;)

But it is a bit of an art.  It's probably best to begin with an ordinary bulb or two and leave your most precious find until you are confident that you have mastered the technique.
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: ian mcenery on November 20, 2013, 06:08:14 PM
My clump of r-o still going strong  ;D

Magnificent Herbert :o
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Leena on November 20, 2013, 06:18:43 PM
How long does it take for a dormant snowdrop to root properly?
Snowdrops which were planted dormant in early August are now showing their noses, and I suppose they have now grown good roots, but I have also planted some dormant bulbs (bought from Estonia), which came in the beginning of October. I planted them immediately, and I have previously bought snowdrop bulbs from the same place (arrived in October) and they have come up next spring ok. I have always covered the planting site with plenty of dry oak leaves to keep the soil from freezing very deep.
Anyway, I was wondering how long these late planted snowdrops might need unfrozen soil for rooting?
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: MR GRUMPY on November 20, 2013, 10:23:21 PM
Carolyn,That's really special,green tips and a long ovary,in fall/autumn 8) 8) 8) :).I only know of elwesii'December Green Tip',which hasn't flowered for me as yet,But i think it will not be patch on your's.......... :) :) :)
 I should thankyou for your help with posting pictures,last year.I still use Picasa,it's really easy.  ;D
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Alan_b on November 21, 2013, 09:37:42 AM
Leena, because winters here are relatively mild I can get away with keeping snowdrops in pots.  Sometimes I have re-potted in August and found that the bulbs have already grown some roots.  In other pots the bulbs appeared still completely dormant.  I think normal snowdrop behaviour is to put down roots and poke up shoots to somewhere close to soil level in the autumn and early winter then wait until the first signs of spring to produce their leaves and flower.  They have to do this in order to be amongst the earliest of the spring flowers.

I don't know how late you can leave it to plant dormant snowdrops.

   
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Brian Ellis on November 21, 2013, 09:48:08 AM
Leena, I have had newly planted snowdrops that have not appeared one season.  Naturally I thought I had lost them, but nine times out of ten they will appear the following year, so, as long as you have marked the spot so they are not disturbed, I am sure you will be alright.  If they do not appear next year they will appear in 2015 having taken a year to settle in if they objected to being planted late.  If they were from a reputable supply and planted on arrival there should not be a problem...You could always check if nothing appears in the Spring by waiting until June/July and having a dig down to make sure you still have the bulbs.
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: mark smyth on November 21, 2013, 10:35:09 AM
That's worth chipping and bulking up.
definitely
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Leena on November 21, 2013, 05:08:43 PM
Sometimes I have re-potted in August and found that the bulbs have already grown some roots.  In other pots the bulbs appeared still completely dormant. 

Can different species root in different time schedule? Some species root earlier than others?

Leena, I have had newly planted snowdrops that have not appeared one season.  Naturally I thought I had lost them, but nine times out of ten they will appear the following year, so, as long as you have marked the spot so they are not disturbed, I am sure you will be alright.  If they do not appear next year they will appear in 2015 having taken a year to settle in if they objected to being planted late.  If they were from a reputable supply and planted on arrival there should not be a problem.

This is good to know  :), and I have marked where I have planted them (with small sticks which can get lost, I should have marked them better). The late planted snowdrops were Cordelia and Jacquenetta from Savisaar, and Falkland House from Nijssen (and some cheap unnamed dry bulbs from the supermarket, I'm not expecting much from them). Most of the bulbs I had gotten from the UK in the summer are now showing their noses. :) It is really exciting to see them the first time in the spring. :)
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Martin Baxendale on November 21, 2013, 07:19:19 PM
I'm still repotting dry-stored bulbs now  :-\ 
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: snowdropcollector on November 21, 2013, 08:14:53 PM
Great snowdrop Carolyn ! Worthy to grow in any collection with this green mark on the outer petals, for a early snowdrop.
Can not remember ever have seen a early snowdrop with such great green markings.

Leena, I have the same experience as Brian. Some bulbs are just 'sitting' in the ground for a year and start developing
the second year I have them. New planted bulbs also can grow very different the first year from then they normally do.
They can grow/flower from 1 to 6 weeks earlier then normal. Maybe this a stress factor ?
From experience I have I know that snowdrops flowering now start making roots in the beginning of August.

 
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Paddy Tobin on November 27, 2013, 10:13:02 AM
G. 'Barnes' up and waiting for a sunny day to open
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Paddy Tobin on November 27, 2013, 10:14:22 AM
G. plicatus 'Mary Hely-Hutchinson' just open
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Alan_b on November 27, 2013, 12:20:43 PM
I see that you have acquired 'Mary Hely-Hutchinson' since you posted a comment on it in 2009, Paddy.  Is it the earliest flowering example of G. plicatus that is known?   
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on November 27, 2013, 12:49:46 PM
G. plicatus 'Mary Hely-Hutchinson' just open
I see that in the AGS bulletin of 2007 ( 75- 454) this 'drop is noted as  "flowering in October" - that IS early!
I don't think it has been reported as being n flower before the first week of November in this forum.
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Alan_b on November 27, 2013, 01:04:30 PM
I think Paddy's relatively mild climate often results in his snowdrops flowering ahead of the majority but at least some of the autumn-flowering snowdrops supposedly don't come into flower until it gets sufficiently cool so might flower later for him.  Any thoughts Paddy?
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Paddy Tobin on November 27, 2013, 07:49:47 PM
I knew G. 'Mary Hely-Hutchinson' would catch your attention. As you know, it is of Irish origin, hence my interest but, as has so often proved to be the case, it came to me from the U.K. from a very generous lady who doesn't even know me but who heard of my interest and sent some bulbs. Now, isn't that so wonderful. I have a snowdrop which I will treasure for its Irish background and which will always remind me of the generosity of another gardener (and a very kind intermediary).

Because it is its first time flowering here with me I think it is impossible to make definite comments on its time of flowering. I was certainly delighted to see it in flower earlier this week and it promises to give early season interest in future years. The only other one in flower in the garden at the moment is G. 'Barnes'. Several are peeping above ground but not yet showing white.

Maggi, in the Snowdrop book it is mentioned that it came to attention as an October-flowering snowdrop in Ireland but then states that it had never flowered earlier than November in the U.K. which bears out your comments.

Re Alan's comment re a period of cold to initiate growth and flowering: we haven't had any significant cold weather  to date, just a few cold evenings, a little ice on birdbaths and a few frosty mornings but nothing especially cold. I am impressed by your recollection of my mention of this in 2009, Alan, especially so as I don't recall it myself - old age is really telling on me.

On the topic of early-flowering snowdrops, I have had delightful success with G. reginae Olgae 'Sofia' and 'Tilebarn Jamie' this year. I had failed for many years with these in the garden while, at the same time, I held a deep reluctance to grow in pots in the glasshouse. I just don't have the regularity of habit to manage most pot-grown plants but a friend in Greece recommended a very simple approach and it has worked wonderfully with me. The bulbs are presently in growth and I keep them watered and fed. When the foliage dies down I put the pots in the sunniest and hottest position in the glasshouse and leave absolutely dry until mid-September when I give them their first watering and they flower in mid-October. I was delighted with the simplicity of the regime and the wonderful flowering of the bulbs and will continue with further bulbs in future years. It appears it is possible to teach some old dogs new tricks.



Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on November 27, 2013, 08:04:08 PM
What a delightful tale of kindness that has brought G. 'Mary Hely-Hutchinson'  to your garden, Paddy - as you say- it is such happenings that make plants all the more interesting and precious to us.

A gift is always so special .

 You seem to have had the same difficulties as ourselves in finding a regime that will accommodate the reginae-olgaes. We have never has them happy in the garden and those we have now in pots are receiving pretty much the method you describe - though "hottest and sunniest" in terms even of a glasshouse in Aberdeen is relative! ::)

Ian does remember that when we were given these we were told- "these will certainly  grow and flower for you" - and so it has proved. The scent when there is enough sunshine to open them up to release their fragrance is so nice - an added bonus .
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Alan_b on November 27, 2013, 09:12:47 PM
I can grow G. reginae-olgae outside here in dry Cambridgeshire.  They seem to enjoy a sunny position and we get very little summer rainfall here so I would have thought in many respects they are the most rock-garden-adapted of all the snowdrops.    How about burying a rock on the south side of a tree or deciduous shrub and planting the reginae-olgae just to the south side of the rock in a mixture of grit and leaf mould?  Make sure the planting hole is itself well-drained so it does not fill with water after heavy rain.  The tree/shrub is to create a dryer micro-climate and the rock is to create a hotter micro-climate.  Ideally find somewhere that is too dry for much to grow in summer as this will also discourage the slugs and snails which will eat the flower buds if they find them.

Paddy, thanks for your information.  I don't have a good memory at all but when I did a search for 'Mary Hely-Hutchinson' to try and find out more, I found this http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=4674.msg127440#msg127440 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=4674.msg127440#msg127440)     
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Roma on November 27, 2013, 09:44:45 PM
Warm enough today for the flowers to open on Galanthus corcyrensis
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Alan_b on November 28, 2013, 12:20:30 PM
G. elwesii 'Peter Gatehouse' just getting into its stride.
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Paddy Tobin on November 28, 2013, 08:11:04 PM
Isn't it odd that these haven't peeped above ground here. Nice clump, Alan.
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: mark smyth on November 28, 2013, 10:44:51 PM
In all the years I've had Peter Gatehouse it's never been more than the original two bulbs. They are at the same stage as yours, Alan
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Alan_b on November 28, 2013, 11:21:58 PM
Something wrong there, Mark.  Mine face south but live under a climbing hydrangea so they are in a location that is shaded in summer.  I'm tempted to suggest that you move yours to a warmer spot.  I remember visiting the garden of Rod Leeds, who is a fantastic gardener, yet noticing his 'Peter Gatehouse' looked pretty miserable by my standards, lacking the attractive foliage it should achieve later in the season.  I thought maybe Rod had it in too cold a spot.

Paddy, perhaps your 'Peter Gatehouse' supports my mild-weather-makes-autumn-snowdrops-later conjecture?     
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: ashley on November 29, 2013, 12:05:58 AM
Paddy, perhaps your 'Peter Gatehouse' supports my mild-weather-makes-autumn-snowdrops-later conjecture?

I'm not sure about that Alan.  'Peter Gatehouse' is flowering here too (about 120 km WSW of Paddy's garden and probably fairly similar in terms of climate) and usually starts in late October. 
However the few elwesii types I have seem happiest in warmer, well-drained sites in the garden.
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Alan_b on November 29, 2013, 08:43:14 AM
Thanks for your observation, Ashley.  All this stems from a snippet of information remembered from a talk I attended on snowdrops in their native habitats.  It was stated that in the case of the autumn-flowering reginae-olgaes, plants growing on the shady side of a rock came into flower sooner so the inference was made that is was the reduction in temperature that triggered the flowering.  Whether any of this translates to our much cooler latitude or to elwesiis are moot points.
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Brian Ellis on November 29, 2013, 09:06:05 AM
I have moved all my Autumn snowdrops bar two into a sunnier, more open position.  All of those that were moved are in flower - or would have been if the birds hadn't pecked some of them off! I'm still waiting for the other two to catch up.
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: mark smyth on November 29, 2013, 11:05:21 AM
mine face south and are under an elder
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: Brian Ellis on November 29, 2013, 04:58:05 PM
... under an elder

Perhaps the elder is taking the moisture out of the soil surrounding them?
Title: Re: Galanthus in November 2013
Post by: mark smyth on November 30, 2013, 03:30:00 PM
I'll try to remember to move them next spring
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