Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => NARCISSUS => Topic started by: Hans A. on September 21, 2013, 08:41:01 PM
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First autumn flowering Narcissus here for this year - Narcissus obsoletus
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Lovely picture Hans of a very graceful species.
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Lovely Hans. Are they growing in similar conditions to the arils or are they pot grown?
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Thanks Gail and Pat,
yes they can be grown in same conditions as Oncos, but best sites with highest density of plants are in ditches next to roads where water is hold several days after a rainfall - do not try this with an Onco. ;)
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Thanks Hans I have somewhere in mind when I get seed.
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Every year a bit better flowering: Narcissus x perezlarae
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Every year a bit better flowering: Narcissus x perezlarae
Hans that is so beautiful. Is it scented?
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Every year a bit better flowering: Narcissus x perezlarae
A glorious clump, Hans !!!! Awesome ! :o :o
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Such a distinctive and beautiful Narcissus - especially so in large numbers.
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Wonderful Hans. But there are any autumn flowering daffodils are hardy in Central Europe (perhaps in an unheated greenhouse)?
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Every year a bit better flowering: Narcissus x perezlarae
What a wonderful sight! - what a difference to those inside my greenhouse (not in flower at
the moment). I can't hardly resent to throw my small, always splitting and shy flowering bulbs
away! :(
Gerd
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Thanks for all the kind coments Diane, Luc, Pat and Gerd! :-*
Diane, sorry I did not check it - have to much trouble in the garden actually - tomorrow I will try to smell them...
ebbie - I have doubts about cultivation of this species in an unheated greenhouse in Central Europe - here they hardly ever get temperatures below 0ºC - as I know they are also difficult to get to flower there.
Gerd!!! :o Please keep them, you are a master in growing them, do not know any better grower of this kind of Narcissus in Germany!
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Every year a bit better flowering: Narcissus x perezlarae
Hans, that is so extraordinary!
I bet you can't wait for next year ;D
I'm very jealous and envious - we have no hope of getting this one into the country unless someone re-creates the cross and sends us fresh seed! Or unless one of the big bulb companies here decides to import it as bulbs; it's very sad that Marcus Harvey no longer is importing bulbs like this!
cheers
fermi
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A fantastic sight, Hans!
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Thanks a lot Fermi and Anne!
Unfortunately Narcissus cavanillesii does not like my garden whyever - I lost it here...
Yes, I already wait for next year. ;D
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tell the truth Hans, this is not your garden, you were in Cadiz last week taking pictures in the wild... ;D ;D ;D
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;D - i should leave my little island to visit Cadiz
one three times (in autumn, winter and spring). ;)
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I wonder if I could grow it here? Is anyone making the cross?
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These is the first set of pics from this season. Flowering is somewhat shy as a result of a long lasting
cold spell - I wish I would be able to import a little bit of the Mallorcan sunshine plus temperatures from this island.
1. Narcissus cavanillesii - the 'normal' Spanish form
2. Narcissus cavanillesii mauretanicus - a Salmon introduction
3. Narcissus cavanillesii - a larger and free flowering form received from an UK AGS member
4. Comparison - from left to right: normal form (2 pots) - mauretanicus - UK form
Gerd
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part 2
1. hybrid of unknowm parentage - perhaps miniatus x ?
2. Narcissus miniatus from Mallorca
3. Narcissus serotinus s. str. from S. Spain
4. Narcissus viridiflorus
Gerd
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Thanks Gerd !
These beauties bring a ray of sunshine in these dull, dark days !
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Ah, the Masters first report of the season. As usual Gerd beautiful plants.
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Expertly grown, and delightful.
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Thanks for compliments - they also bring a ray of sunshine in these dull, dark days for me - but
the label ' master ' - ??? - as long as I would not be able to receive a sufficient amount of flowering
bulbs from Narcissus x perezlarae (for instance) I am far away to call me that way.
Gerd
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Gerd,
it's great to see them all flowering at the same time - good chance to form hybrids ;D
cheers
fermi
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Gerd,
it's great to see them all flowering at the same time - good chance to form hybrids ;D
cheers
fermi
Fermi,
I tried crossings several times - unfortunately pollination and seed set is insufficent in my climate.
Californian daffodil lovers are more succesful - please have a look to the website http://daffnet.org
- especially Harold Koopowitz raised wonderful hybrids of autumn flowering daffs.
Gerd
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Flowering is somewhat shy as a result of a long lasting
cold spell -
Gerd
At least you get them flowering now every year. Certainly some people will be envious with such results in our northerly climate ::) ::)
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Hans and Gerd, wonderful Narcissus!
A few Narcissus serotinus/ miniatus from my greenhouse.
Poul
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Well grown Poul. Do you give them a baking in the Summer?
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Thank you David!
I had planned to make a 'baking box' as Gerd has described in an earlier post, to give them an optimal baking, but I ran out of time. That must be a next year project.
Luckily we had a relative long and hot summer (for Denmark), which gave them a natural baking.
Poul
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Wouldn't it be sufficient to just leave the bulbs in the bulbframe to do the baking? In my small greenhouse it easily gets 40C in summer if the sun is shining. I only have summer dormant bulbs and they don't seem to mind up till now, although I only have this greenhouse for a short time yet.
Maybe it may even kill the Narcissus fly as a side effect. Commercial daffodil growers submerge bulbs for 2 hours in water of 42C to kill of any Narcissus fly grubs. Maybe baking might have the same effect.
Rob
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Poul, in your pictures first and second, are Narcissus obsoletus which is the correct name for this Mediterranean species, in the third picture there are Narcissus obsoletus at right and Narcissus serotinus at left. Very beautiful plants!
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Beautiful Narcissus Gerd and Poul!
Here some more Narcissus - because of the drought they are late and small plants.
Narcissus elegans from Northafrica,
Narcissus elegans from Balearic Islands - I agree with Rafa, in my opinion it looks more like a stable hybrid between N. elegans (or viridiflorus??) and N. obsoletus,
Narcissus x alleniae
Narcissus broussonetii - collection from Ek Balls
Especially last both Narcissus are very good scented (similar Jasmin) - and for Diane - yes, x perezlarea is good scented too, but not as intense as N. x alleniae and N. broussonetii.
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Fantastic Hans!
Here it's also blooming this Narcissus elegans from Balearic Islands and Narcissus malacitanus, that is very similar to N. elegans from North Africa. So I have no longer doubt, the plant from Balearic Islands called Narcissus elegans is a new species. Leaves, scape, spathe etc.. are chareacters inherited from N. elegans, flowers have characters inherited from obsoletus.
Now I have an interesting problem to ponder, there was probably Narcissus elegans long time ago, but the evolutionary process by hybridization extinguished it. From my observations, the parent who largely played the role as father, is the first to be extinguished. Then, the new species often coexist with the mother and form new hybrids with them.
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Hans, wonderful photos of marvelous Narcissus!
Rafa, thank you!
Here are a couple of new photos with the correct names (hopefully!)
Poul
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Very beautiful. And well grown!
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Poul, I was wrong. In this new picture I can see second flower in this yellow corona Narcissus at right, so this means it is not Narcissus serotinus that it has one flower per scape. It could be N. obsoletus x N. serotinus, this hybrid and probably in fact new species not described yet, grows in Sevilla and and surely in many places in North Africa.
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Thanks Rafa, Poul and Anne!
Not sure if Pouls plant is a hybrid - N.obsoletus with a yellow corona are not rare in populations of this species here.
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I do so like these simple Narcissus. Thank you all for photos and discussion.
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Hans, interesting.... do you have any picture of this kind of coronas in the wild?.
When N. obsoletus blooms, the pigmentation maturity in corona starting with a yellow-brownish color and some days before it could be pure orange, or orange-green / orange brown, but I never seen this yellow pigment in pure N. obsoletus, they use to be N. obsoletus x N. tazetta and N. obsoletus x N. serotinus.
Also the segments in corona, in Poul's plant make me think in a hybrid.
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Thanks Anne!
Rafa, you are right about the two scapes.
I do not know the origin of these Narcissus. I bought them from a commercial supplier some years ago as N. serotinus. It is first time they flower so well.
However my experience is that you can get many different species/hybrids under that name.
It is better to collect seeds from a wild population, but unfortunately I do not live in Spain....
Poul
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Superb pics from Mallorca and Denmark!
I would like to add some recent pics from here
1. + 2. Narcissus x alleniae - kept inside for better flowering and seedset
3. + 4. Narcissus x alentejanus (moronensis) - a selection of the cross serotinus x cavanillesii with larger flowers
Gerd
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- and 3 different flowers from Narcissus miniatus/obsoletus
1. from Marmaris/Turkey
2. from Mallorca/Spain
3. from the Cadiz Region - one of them with the distinct orange tone
Gerd
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Wow Gerd , great pictures of very well grown plants, happy you did not throw them away! ;)
@Rafa , will have to check if I have pictures, but as I remember they are similar in colour to the first N.obsoletus Gerd shows.
Thanks a lot Pat!
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Nothing to shout about I'm sure but I'm always excited by my first Narcissus of the season and if it's one grown from seed and flowering for the first time I'm excited twice over:-
Narcissus 'Nylon Group' from seed (SRGC 08/9 2456) sown September 2009
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That's an early one, David. None of mine even approaching flowering yet. Gerd, fantastic flowers!
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My narcissus season of this year starts much earlier than last year :) I got some autumn flowering hybrids from a nursery in Japan.
This is the first flowering narcissus in my stock: Narcissus rupicola x serotinus
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Welcome back Tatsuo 8)
An interesting cross, given the very different flowering times of the parents.
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Tatsuo,
that's a nice looking hybrid! Very interesting that it's flowering in autumn rather than half way between the two parents.
I wonder if Lawrence Trevanion has tried this cross?
Let us know if it's fertile.
cheers
fermi
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Fine coloured hybrid - very unusual cross! Tatsuo, would you please tell us who made the cross and are there other species combinations.
I'll add 2 pics of my best autumn flowering hybrid - received from a nice Forum member.
Narcissus miniatus x tazetta from Israel. It flowers reliably - it stays compact - the bicoloured flowers are of a good size.
Gerd
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Hello and thank you Ashley ;) Its flower follows the pollen parent N. serotinus as Fermi mentioned.
Fermi, yes I will tell you if this hybrid set seeds :) This hybrid has a slight scent.
Gerd, your autumn narcissus collection is marvellous :o :o :o Especially miniatus x tazetta is so cute :P
I obtained some narcissus hybrids from Komoriya Nursery. You can find some narcissus hybrid pictures here http://item.rakuten.co.jp/komoriya-nursery/c/0000000192/ (http://item.rakuten.co.jp/komoriya-nursery/c/0000000192/). It seems the owner of the nursery, Mr. KOMORIYA, Satoshi made those hybrids. I think his nursery is famous for its Hippeastrum breeding works.
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Fascinating (and very attractive) hybrids!
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Hello and thank you Ashley ;) Its flower follows the pollen parent N. serotinus as Fermi mentioned.
Fermi, yes I will tell you if this hybrid set seeds :) This hybrid has a slight scent.
Gerd, your autumn narcissus collection is marvellous :o :o :o Especially miniatus x tazetta is so cute :P
I obtained some narcissus hybrids from Komoriya Nursery. You can find some narcissus hybrid pictures here http://item.rakuten.co.jp/komoriya-nursery/c/0000000192/ (http://item.rakuten.co.jp/komoriya-nursery/c/0000000192/). It seems the owner of the nursery, Mr. KOMORIYA, Satoshi made those hybrids. I think his nursery is famous for its Hippeastrum breeding works.
Thank you, Tatsuo!
Very interesting site from Komoriya nursery - so many interesting crosses. Fortunately the names of the hybrids were mentioned in Latin.
Gerd
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Fascinating plants Gerd, David and Tatsuo!
@Tatsuo - thanks for posting the link! very beautiful and interesting crosses!
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A friend just gave me this link to a website which has possibly the most beautiful narcissus photos I've ever seen, especially those of the autumn-flowering species. Well worth a look.
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/naturalezadeandalucia/sets/72157607466185346/ (http://www.flickriver.com/photos/naturalezadeandalucia/sets/72157607466185346/)
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A friend just gave me this link to a website which has possibly the most beautiful narcissus photos I've ever seen, especially those of the autumn-flowering species. Well worth a look.
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/naturalezadeandalucia/sets/72157607466185346/ (http://www.flickriver.com/photos/naturalezadeandalucia/sets/72157607466185346/)
Wonderful. Certainly worth a look. Many thanks Anne.
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I may be mistaken, but is this chap not a friend of Rafa's ? He has another great site too- if I'm right :
http://naturalezadeandalucia.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://naturalezadeandalucia.blogspot.co.uk/)
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oh yes! my good friend Joaquín Ramírez, excellent person and photographer.
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And a true artist as well...
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My first Narcissus
Narcissus cantabricus foliosus
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A fine start Roma.
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waiting to the complete blooming of N. alleniae, here is a picture.
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a familiy picture N. obsoletus and his son N. alleniae.
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I am pleased to say my pot of seedlings are looking healthy. 8)
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which species Anthony?
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I meant Narcissus alleniae, but obsoletus too. In fact miniatus, iohannis and two I'd have to check in the dark as I've forgotten, as well. :)
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OK Anthony, fantastic. I hope you can increase this fertil N. alleniae I have also some little bulbs from seeds collected last year. By the way N. miniatus = N. obsoletus, thay are not diferent, they are the same species.
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I have grown this from seed as Narcissus papyraceus albidum, ?
Narcissus papyraceus albidum
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Well done Michael. How long did that take?
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Don't know from memory Anthony, it is dark now but I will see what information is on the back of the label in the morning.
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Label faded Anthony,it is 2008 or 2009 :-[
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My goodness. That's quick for a species that has large bulbs. :o I bought some bulbs at a garden centre locally and got one out of ten flowering. Even after the third season I'm still only getting half the bulbs flowering.
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My goodness. That's quick for a species that has large bulbs. :o
Anthony,
You're forgetting Michael's appellation as "The Forum's Mr Amazing" ;D
Michael,
That's any intriguing flower - does the corona expand any more than that?
cheers
fermi
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I'm not even sure that is the correct plant at all,seed exchanges can do funny things and I know very little about Narcissus.
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Michael, I've looked on The Plant List and albidus isn't listed. The nearest I could get is Narcissus papyracueus albulus which is synonymous with N papyraceus var. papyraceus.
I also looked on the RHS Narcissus Botanical Classification List and The RHS Botanical Names in the Genus Narcissus and it isn't mentioned in either, nor can I see any mention of it in Blanchard. Rafa might know more?
Well, a chap's got to have something to do when it's raining (again). ;D
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Thanks David,I suspected as much,it could be anything, and as I said they don't come within my limited field of knowledge. Much like snowdrops. :P
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;D ;D ;D
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Aw heck, Michael , you're being too hard on yourself - you know as well as we do that the daffodils are yellow ....(mostly) and the snowdrops are white .......( mostly) ;D
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;D ;D ;D
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My first autumn flowering narcissus, 'Verdant Sparks', is ready to bloom :P
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My first autumn flowering narcissus, 'Verdant Sparks', is ready to bloom :P
Welcome Micquie!
That's a great colour in the bud - I hope you will show us when it opens. I wonder if it will keep the green?
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viridiflorus x jonquilla
New to me and very nice 8)
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Can't wait to see it open. 8) Must try this when my jonquilla blooms.
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My 'VERDANT SPARKS' today ;D ;D ;D I love it!!
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Hey Micquie, it is beautiful!
I have resized your pictures to make them easier to see on smaller screens
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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Thank you, Maggi!
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My 'VERDANT SPARKS' today ;D ;D ;D I love it!!
That is very attractive. Where can it be obtained?
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Gerry, I've bought mine at Ringhaddy Daffodils
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RHS PlantFinder says Ringhaddy in N. Ireland stock it, Gerry
Ringhaddy Daffodils
Killinchy, Co. Down, N. Ireland
BT23 6TU
Telephone
028 9754 1007 / 07762 337534
Email
info@ringhaddy-daffodils.com
Website
www.ringhaddy-daffodils.com (http://www.ringhaddy-daffodils.com)
More information on this hybrid :
http://daffnet.org/green-daffodils-verdant-sparks/ (http://daffnet.org/green-daffodils-verdant-sparks/) seems it is quite new to the market.
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Gerry, I've bought mine at Ringhaddy Daffodils
Ha Ha! you were faster than me, Micquie!
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Thanks Micquie & Maggi.
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I suppose this is a clone and seeds from the same cross wouldn't produce the same effect, so I'll just have to admire from afar, and maybe have a go myself. :(
BTW, forgot to say: Wow! :o I wasn't disappointed.
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My 'VERDANT SPARKS' again ;)
There's 1 bulb, 4 stems & 7 flowers.... Have you nice Saturday!
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My 'VERDANT SPARKS' again ;)
There's 1 bulb, 4 stems & 7 flowers.... Have you nice Saturday!
Good result from one bulb! Hope your Saturday is a good one, too!
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Narcissus Cedric Morris yesterday. It needs some sun to open.
The ones outside in the open frame are a little behind.
Poul
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Very sparky, isn't it? I bet it would have nice babies, if fertile. I'm feeling daff-deprived here as only on flower out as yet. :-[
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I'm feeling daff-deprived here as only on flower out as yet. :-[
What I'd give to have even a single flower out right now! :(
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It's curious that Ian's bulblog shows lots of flowers out in Aberdeen! I'm envious.
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Every year a bit better flowering: Narcissus x perezlarae
a fabulous plant
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It's curious that Ian's bulblog shows lots of flowers out in Aberdeen! I'm envious.
It's only a few pots out so far...... still the promise of many more to come- but it really lovely to have a couple of pots with a good display already. 'Cedric Morris' isn't out yet though.....
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'Cedric Morris' isn't out yet though.....
...but in bud?
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Yes, I can see buds
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They've been pretty slow this year but making a start now:-
Narcissus 'Camoro' a Margaret and Henry Taylor cross.
Narcissus romieuxii . Grown from seed collected from my own plants, sown September 2009 and flowering for the first time.
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Narcissus cantabricus var. foliosus
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There is a lot of interest in these Narcisus and many of you may have received the recent list of new seed from Derrick Donnison-Morgan, of "Simply-Species" who is now selling his seeds more informally, rather than through a website.
The lists says :
" SimplySpecies No.6 (November 2013)
Autumn SEED LIST
Have just returned from an exhausting but successful trip to S.W. Spain, where I have been able to collect some seed of the Autumn Flowering Narcissus species. These are offered for sale at the rates shown below. Numbers in ( ) are collection references for wild collected seed. I can give you more information on these with the seed packets or by return of e-mail if requested.
Sufficient seed is supplied to remain in a 9cm pot for up to 2/3 years, depending on species. For example, smaller seed will be approx 20 per packet but Paeonia seed only 3 per packet.
Cost of postage is included only to UK and EU destinations. I will need to quote for destinations outside Europe.
Would be best if interested persons contact me by e-mail first to ensure that I have sufficient seed still available. Payment is best by PayPal to derrick18morgan@btinternet.com Price is £1.20 per pkt incl P & P to UK & EU destinations.
Please ensure that your full postal address (incl. Post Code) is included with your order.
Derrick Donnison-Morgan
simplyspecies@btinternet.com
Derrick tells me he has already sold out of N. viridiflorus but these remain.....
N. miniatus (1213) Sevilla, La Lantejuela (Holotype site)
N. miniatus (1214) Sevilla, Moron de la Frontera
N. cavanillesii (1215) Sevilla, Moron de la Frontera (only a few pkts left - limited to one pkt per order)
N. miniatus (1216) Sevilla, La Puebla de Cazalla
N. miniatus (1220) Sevilla, Utrera
N. miniatus (1226) Sevilla, Coripe
N. miniatus (1227) Cadiz, Arcos de la Frontera
N. miniatus (1231) Cadiz, Los Barrios (only a few pkts left)
Thanks and best wishes
Derrick Donnison-Morgan
simplyspecies@btinternet.com
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Thanks for that. I've put my order in. I'm confused. Wikipedia lists obsoletus as a hybrid between elegans and serotinus, and miniatus as a species. I was led to believe miniatus = obsoletus.
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Here's a description of this Narcissus
Was BX 319 #2 of a PBS offering
"These date back to a mass sowing in 2004 of seed from moderately
controlled crosses of romieuxii, cantabricus, albidus, zaianicus, and
similar early blooming sorts of the bulbocodium group. Colors tend to be
light yellow through cream to white, and flowers are large, much larger
than the little gold colored bulbocodiums of spring. These have been
selected three times, and the keepers are choice."
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Nice Arnold.
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Narcissus cantabricus hybrid grown from seed many years ago. Very reliable and increases well.
Narcissus 'Joy Bishop'
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Very nice - but not Joy Bishop!