Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: Matt Bishop on August 27, 2013, 03:34:20 PM
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Dear All,
Most if not all of you now know that I'm working on Snowdrops 2 and so now after moving house, garden and all the madnesses that life has to offer - and with one or two well known octogenarian galanthophiles snapping at my heels of late to hurry up, I'm now actively working on the text again.
As I write this I'm very conscious of the fact that between you all there are answers to an awful lot of questions that I'm going to need to ask in order that Snowdrops 2 is as complete and accurate as possible. And so from time to time I'm going to be asking for your help by sharing this information.
At present I'm working on the division which contains cultivars where the inner segment marking is yellow (in which I'm including plants where the mark could be described yellowish and pale yellow regardless of the ovary colour. I'm wondering if any forumists could shoot me a quick response especially if they themselves have selected and named cultivars which would fall in this division - or if they know cultivars that I would not be aware of so that I can include them in the text.
Thank you in anticipation!
Matt
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Hello Matt!
There seems to be tremendous interest in the yellow 'drops so I hope you get a good response from forumists.
You must be up to your ears with work on the "New Testament" so we likely won't see much of you around here ( those waiting for the book want you working full time on it!!) but it'll be good if forumists can keep you up to speed with their new 'drops.
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Hagen comes to mind first
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Thanks Maggi,
The end is very definitely not in sight. ;D!!!
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Matt, welcome here on this basal plate for galanthus.
I heard there is an inner circle of galanthus friends in UK.
But this here is the European stage of snowdrop friends (and do not forget the antipodes).
We will do our best to help you and there are several ways to send informations to you.
My collection is an open book for you. No real news, I think.
But I will try to get a lot of background informations.
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And Valentin Wijnen should be contacted as well, best through the VRV or via one or our forumists.
johnw
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Anne Wright has a whole collection of yellow crosses between Sandersii & Wendy's Gold but they are all very new; possibly not yet at the stage of selecting out those that might be worthy of propagation.
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My goodness what a responsibility Matt.
Those octogenarian galanthophiles must be a force to be reckoned with!
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Hello Matt,
Lovely to here that there is progress. However I am rather fearful that doing an in depth(further) discourse with all the waits for photos, comment, etc. could stall this once again for another long period. Perhaps addenda paper volumes would work?
Current illness which totally keeps me chairbound and out of the gardens, with no diagnosis yet in sight, shows me that, in life, time is of the essence...smile.
So looking forward to the BOOK.
Best always, Marcia in the US
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Dear Marcia,
I am so sorry to hear of your illness - I will hope for a recovery for you as soon as possible so you can properly enjoy your flowers again.
And we must all wish Matt a smooth voyage with the book!
Kindest regards,
Maggi
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Perhaps addenda paper volumes would work?
Hope your health is better soon Marcia, in the meantime your brain is in top condition! What an excellent idea, addendas for various sections would keep us all happy and itching to get our hands on the next one. But would the publishers go for it?
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Or "extras " could be "published" here - on the website that probably has more galanthophiles around than any other.......... anything is possible as far as the SRGC site is concerned.
If you read Matt's comments on his website (http://www.mattbishopsnowdrops.co.uk/?page_id=18), you will see that he is asking for help from all growers to arrange photographs of as many plants as possible - he asks for bulbs to be sent to him so that he can grow and flower them to get the best possible comparative photography for the book.
He will then send you back the bulb, plus any increase- you lose nothing except the "company" of the bulb for a season ( ...or so, depending on good flowering, I imagine) and you will be participating in the collation of the best possible info for the book.
Matt, while running his online bulb site with Ebay sales ( he needs to eat just like the rest of us) will be concentrating on writing for the next while, with a view to getting the book to the waiting galanthophiles in a few years - seems reasonable - to me - Rome wasn't built in a day and all that!
I think it's great that forumists will be able to help out with their contributions to knowledge of new 'drops and so on. The Forum is the obvious place, too, for Matt to be able to see your comments and reply with any useful info he may have.
Of course time will not stand still when the book is published - new finds are bound to arise - but Matt is striving to make the content as thorough as possible- and he is welcoming the help of all snowdrop lovers here - I wish him all the best and hope that forumists will rally round.
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Dear Matt,
Included you find the list of Galanthus Gold Group cultivars as an extract from our "Galanthus, a list of cultivar names" publication.
We have requested the publisher to include A-Z list per Cultivar Group too but unfortunately this was not possible.
Please note that the description of the Galanthus Gold Group differs from your request for only cultivars with a yellow inner mark.
Hope this is of help.
Wim
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wow so many yellows :o
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Hello Wim,
Many thanks for this!
Matt
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If I listed all the books that I have constantly referred too, the 'Snowdrop Book' would be up there with Graham Stuart Thomas' 'Perennials' and Ingwersen's 'Manual of Alpine Plants'. I found the links with so many remarkable gardeners, past and present such a strong feature of it, and as a relative neophyte to galanthus, completely fascinating. I love books (which have a personality about them that the Internet can't really mimic), so I hope a publisher would go with this, but agree with Brian and Marcia - a fully fledged 'Snowdrops 2' would be extremely specialised. My dream is to write about 'Umbellifers' and sometimes the more I learn the more this recedes - so just getting the information together must be the key! I found Anne's descriptions of 'yellow' crosses on this Forum very striking because snowdrops have generally been discovered rather than deliberately aimed for in controlled breeding programmes, and the latter introduces a different approach and potential. Somehow, I don't see the interest in snowdrops declining but rather like the specialist garden societies new gardeners also have to be drawn in, and snowdrops that are distinctive and grow really well in gardens are most likely to do this. For me 'Wendy's Gold' grows wonderfully and 'Primrose Warburg' hasn't done, but in a friend's garden I have just divided a clump of the latter into 50 or 60 bulbs! It shows the individuality of different gardens and gardeners when it comes to snowdrops!
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Dear All,
I am hoping that someone out there might be able to help with some information.......
I'm currently writing the entry for G. nivalis 'Audrey Vockins' /'Gunther's Geist'. Here's where I've got to so far:
"The 2006 season was noteworthy for its lateness to the point that the March RHS show was every bit as interesting as it February counterpart for its snowdrops. The undoubted star to have arrived on the scene that day was the first example of a poculiform ‘Sandersii’ (sic.) (pers. comm. A. Street 2006). Galanthophiles were quick to spot its inclusion on the Foxgrove display labelled ‘Poculoformis’ (sic). Its origin is tanatalisingly uncertain, the material having come to Foxgrove some years earlier from the garden of a customer (whose name has been forgotten) where it was apparently grown simply as a yellow snowdrop (Leslie 2006)........"
The name for this stock, 'Gunther's Geist' seesm to have first been published in Gunther's book in 2011 with 'Audrey Vockins' given in barckets as a synonym. Unfortunately the name chosen by the originator of the stock has to take presedence (under the code). If they are not identified the best that can be done at present is to revert to the earliest published name with a description. Therefore:
Does anyone know the answer to the following:
1. Does anyone either themselves grow, or knows someone who grows the stock which went to Foxgrove of what is essentially a poculform 'Sandersii' (sic)
2. Is anyone aware of a publication that predates Gunther's 2011 book describing this snowdrop (under the name of 'Audrey Vockins') with any kind of description, no matter how vague?
There is a question mark over which name takes precident - resolved by the date of first publication with a description but ultimately the choice of name from the originator of the stock. I'm hoping to be able to resolve this before publication to minimise the possibiloity of confusion later on were the originator to be identified and decided to excercise their right to a choice of this clone's name rendering the previous two synonyms.
Apologies of this is slightly long winded!
Many thanks,
Matt
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Matt, I presume you have spoken to Audrey Vockins to confirm she is not the originator? She is third from the left in the front row of this picture of 'The Immortals' here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening/plants/8376143/Snowdrops-Celebrating-the-Immortals.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening/plants/8376143/Snowdrops-Celebrating-the-Immortals.html) . If the name gets changed, that will deprive Audrey of her immortality.
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Thanks Alan, Unfortunately in this situation there someone looses out - and they are both people who richly deserve their immortality! I just couldn't, in all conscience, go to press knowing thyat there could be a potentially confusing sitation looming for the name of this snowdrop in the future, not having do my best to resolve it.
Regards M
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The first appearance I can find on the forum (as 'Audrey Vockins') was here: http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=6625.msg187940#msg187940 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=6625.msg187940#msg187940) so maybe Mark Smyth is your man?
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Thanks Alan,
Certainly a mention but dates are establishment of cultivars epithets currently exclude all references on the web and so this plays no part.......
M
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I'm aware of that rule, Matt; it's so last millennium. But clearly the name was well-established before February/March 2011 when Mark published his picture and you and Audrey Vockins were photographed in that group of 'Immortals'. It's hard to believe that could have happened without the name appearing in print somewhere. Would a sales list count as a printed reference? There is a snowdrop close to my heart that was named in order to be sold and so the first printed reference, probably by some years, is in a sales list.
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Joe gave me the photo in March 2010
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This web page http://www.zauber-pflanzen.de/galanthus_sorten_hybriden.html (http://www.zauber-pflanzen.de/galanthus_sorten_hybriden.html) says that:
"Galanthus ' Günther 's Ghost ' ('Audrey Vockins') - is a yellow G. nivalis, but with pure white inner petals. The albino type was a selection in the Oirlicher flower garden of Günter Waldorf from the year 2009. The American owner of a snowdrop shipment Hitch Lyman dedicated it to his British mentor Audrey Vockins (1929)."
Sounds as if Hitch Lyman gave it Audrey's name - but it is still unclear if it had been named previously for Gunther.
Perhaps you need Hitch Lyman's input as well as that of Gunther's widow, Matt .
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I'll phone Hitch later or tomorrow
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Joe gave me the photo in March 2010
Joe being Joe Sharman, Mark?
There's a nice article on Hitch Lyman here http://donstathamblog.com/kaatskill-articles-3/hitch-lyman-galanthophile/ (http://donstathamblog.com/kaatskill-articles-3/hitch-lyman-galanthophile/)
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Yes Joe Sharman. I've text him to contact Matt
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......still working on yellow G. nivalis and have come accross 'Webb's Gold' and am wondering either if he is a forum member or anyone could possibly put me in touch with him?
Many thanks,
Matt
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......still working on yellow G. nivalis and have come accross 'Webb's Gold' and am wondering either if he is a forum member or anyone could possibly put me in touch with him?
Many thanks,
Matt
Might it be one from Richard Webb? ( at Benington Lordship?)
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Thanks Maggi, and Yep, you were right. Embarassing. I'm rubbish which peoples' names :-[
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Lol I'm rubbish with people's names , I figure that part of my brain was taken over by plants and plant names !
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Hi Emma,
I am not alone after all!
M
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I have the same problem. And faces too. But I cannot identify hundreds of different snowdrops either so goodness knows what that bit of my brain get used for?
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With you on the faces front also (and it depends on the Snowdrop too!)
M
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Prosopagnosia (Greek: "prosopon" = "face", "agnosia" = "not knowing"), also called face blindness, is a disorder of face perception where the ability to recognize faces is impaired, while other aspects of visual processing (e.g., object discrimination) and intellectual functioning (e.g., decision making) remain intact. The term originally referred to a condition following acute brain damage (acquired prosopagnosia), but a congenital or developmental form of the disorder also exists, which may affect up to 2.5% of the population.[1] The specific brain area usually associated with prosopagnosia is the fusiform gyrus,[2] which activates specifically in response to faces. Thanks to this specialization, most people recognize faces much more effectively than they do similarly complex inanimate objects. For those with prosopagnosia, the ability to recognize faces depends on the less-sensitive object recognition system.
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Of no help with the snowdrop but thought it was interesting .
I watched a program about a lady chess grandmaster who used the facial recognition parts of her brain to memorise chess moves , she was rubbish with people's names and faces , so maybe it's possible to use that part of your brain for plant recognition instead ? Just a hypothesis I have no way of testing .
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Matt
I have developed or selected a number of yellows but two have seemed sufficiently distinctive to be worth a wider circulation, Moonlight and Steve's Yellow.
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Any pictures, Steve? Or a description; what makes them distinctive? I appreciate that it's Matt who needs to know but I'm sure the rest of us are curious.
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Matt
I have developed or selected a number of yellows but two have seemed sufficiently distinctive to be worth a wider circulation, Moonlight and Steve's Yellow.
Thanks Steve, Could you possibly email me your contact no. so I can ring you later on?
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Dear All,
In thre course of writing an account for the yellows I need to discuss our understanding of 'Blonde Inge' and its segregate forms and I'm hoping that somebody out there might be able to put me in touch with Nicholas Topp.......?
Best wishes,
Matt
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Prosopagnosia (Greek: "prosopon" = "face", "agnosia" = "not knowing"), also called face blindness, is a disorder of face perception where the ability to recognize faces is impaired, while other aspects of visual processing (e.g., object discrimination) and intellectual functioning (e.g., decision making) remain intact. The term originally referred to a condition following acute brain damage (acquired prosopagnosia), but a congenital or developmental form of the disorder also exists, which may affect up to 2.5% of the population.[1] The specific brain area usually associated with prosopagnosia is the fusiform gyrus,[2] which activates specifically in response to faces. Thanks to this specialization, most people recognize faces much more effectively than they do similarly complex inanimate objects. For those with prosopagnosia, the ability to recognize faces depends on the less-sensitive object recognition system.
Emma, your avatar is not helping my Prosopagnosia....also your name is not a Latin or Greek binomial, which would have helped. ;)
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Sorry ,I'm an introvert , I like masks ! I am a Homo sapiens if that helps