Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => General Forum => Topic started by: Helen Johnstone on July 14, 2013, 12:42:05 PM
-
I have ordered some bulbs with the intention of hopefully having some to show (narcisssus, tulip, iris etc). I intend to grow them in pots but have questions
How many bulbs is it approprite to plant in a 19cm pot. I of course appreciate that it depends on the size of bulb. The show schedule for AGS states one plant per pot but presumably this doesnt relate to bulbs?
Also I am thinking about plunge beds as I understand they help distribute the moisture. However, I don't have an alpine house so the plunge beds would be outside, does this work? Would I need to provide some form of cover at some point.
Is there anyone I can advice from on this such as a book - I want to know when to start watering, when to dry out, feed etc
Sorry about the simplistic questions but I am an enthusiastic newbie who has a lot to learn
Thanks
Helen
-
Many bulbs like to grow in close proximity with eachother, so a full pot will likely grow really well and make a good show--- you may need to build up to that, of course.
Plunging pots of bulbs is a good way to keep them and yes, this can be done in an open frame outside. It may be appropriate to give cover from excess wet in winter and possibly in summer too, depending on the wonderful British weather. :-X
In Ian's Bulb Log, there is now over ten years' worth of notes on the growing of bulbs - many of which are readily available and which make great show plants.... it's a good place to start for potting mixes, feeding regimes etc s they work for us here.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/index.php?log=bulb (http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/index.php?log=bulb) is the main page
and here is an index from 2003v to 2012 http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/index.pdf (http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/index.pdf)
We first water the potted bulbs thoroughly on 1st September each year - for some frits this is a bit later ... you'll find it all in the Logs.
If anything isn't clear, just ask away......
-
Thanks, I have been reading Ian's Bulblog for a few months. Excellent lunchtime reading. I will do some back reading
-
Books 5203 4704 808 4708 5008 5110 0412 1312
Compost 4906
mixing (cement mixer) 3105
mixture 405
test, sand based 3405
Concrete slab bed construction 1907
Feeding 5209 4910
Loam receipe 3204 105
Loam-free potting mix 2405
Plunge sand 305
Potting compost receipe 2607
Potting mix, loam-free 2405
September 1 watering 3606
Sulphate of potash 705
Surrogate bulbs 3005
Watering
September 1 3606
timing 3703
Winter tips 209 3110
Len Rhind's index of the Bulb Log is very helpful - the above refer to pointers for your questions.
-
Thank you Maggie you are a star - that should keep me quiet a while
-
With tulips, be careful to keep air temperature cool after they start growing in Spring. 8 - 13 degrees C might be OK. If they get too warm, the stems will elongate, and the flowers will look terrible. They need a lot of light. They need good ventilation, or you may get botrytis.
-
I have ordered some bulbs with the intention of hopefully having some to show (narcisssus, tulip, iris etc). I intend to grow them in pots but have questions
How many bulbs is it approprite to plant in a 19cm pot. I of course appreciate that it depends on the size of bulb. The show schedule for AGS states one plant per pot but presumably this doesnt relate to bulbs?
Also I am thinking about plunge beds as I understand they help distribute the moisture. However, I don't have an alpine house so the plunge beds would be outside, does this work? Would I need to provide some form of cover at some point.
Is there anyone I can advice from on this such as a book - I want to know when to start watering, when to dry out, feed etc
Sorry about the simplistic questions but I am an enthusiastic newbie who has a lot to learn
Thanks
Helen
Yes, you'll learn loads from Ian's Bulb Log Helen. You don't live all that far away from Diane Clements and I'm sure she would have a lot of advice to offer you especially in respect of showing. Diane would probably start to water a little later than does Ian (for example I don't start to water now until the beginning of the third week in September) as Ian's autumn starts a little earlier than than us south of the border.
One of the problems I've found with planting bulbs in pots destined for the shows is flower timing and also getting even height in all the bulbs. Of course this may well have been poor cultivation on my part ;D
-
Yes, you'll learn loads from Ian's Bulb Log Helen. You don't live all that far away from Diane Clements and I'm sure she would have a lot of advice to offer you especially in respect of showing. Diane would probably start to water a little later than does Ian (for example I don't start to water now until the beginning of the third week in September) as Ian's autumn starts a little earlier than than us south of the border.
One of the problems I've found with planting bulbs in pots destined for the shows is flower timing and also getting even height in all the bulbs. Of course this may well have been poor cultivation on my part ;D
Thanks David. I have met Diane as I helped with the seed distribution last year so when I next see her I will have to intrigate her fully. This time last year I had only just discovered alpines but didn't know what I didn't know if you see what I mean. Now a year later I have specific questions so I am now intrigating people at meetings and shows more!
-
In general when showing bulbs they should look as they are established in the pot, and display the skill of the grower as well as the quality of the plants. That is not equally spaced over the surface, but clumped as they would be naturally, with non flowering offsets or previous years seedlings. The late Kath Dryden would also argue that it was much more difficult to grow a single bulb well for showing than a pot full.
-
In general when showing bulbs they should look as they are established in the pot, and display the skill of the grower as well as the quality of the plants. That is not equally spaced over the surface, but clumped as they would be naturally, with non flowering offsets or previous years seedlings. The late Kath Dryden would also argue that it was much more difficult to grow a single bulb well for showing than a pot full.
Many thank Brian that makes sense and also explains why some of the pots of bulbs I saw on Saturday had grassy seedlings. Having spent ages removing old leaves off my allium I was surprised to see these but it seems more sensible. I suspect Kath was right and a group looks so much nicer but some of the rules of showing seem slightly strange to me so I thought I would check
-
Helen - may I suggest you try & get hold of a second-hand copy of Kath Dryden's booklet Alpines in Pots (an AGS publication); it contains a lot about bulbs.
I grow all my potted bulbs in an open sand plunge. Frits & a few narcissus are kept there all year round. Other narcissus, crocus, tulips & sternbergias are kept under cover & completely dry when dormant. First watering is at the beginning of Sept. I don't think the composition of the potting mix is too important as long as it is well-drained; for most bulbs I use a mix of equal parts JI3 & 6mm grit.
-
Helen - may I suggest you try & get hold of a second-hand copy of Kath Dryden's booklet Alpines in Pots (an AGS publication); it contains a lot about bulbs.
I grow all my potted bulbs in an open sand plunge. Frits & a few narcissus are kept there all year round. Other narcissus, crocus, tulips & sternbergias are kept under cover & completely dry when dormant. First watering is at the beginning of Sept. I don't think the composition of the potting mix is too important as long as it is well-drained; for most bulbs I use a mix of equal parts JI3 & 6mm grit.
Thanks Gerry - I will add that book to my list. I get the impression that Kath was and is held in high esteem.
When you say open sand plunge do you mean open to the elements?
and when you say some are kept under cover and dry when dormant would sitting them in a garage be OK?
Helen
-
Thanks Gerry - I will add that book to my list. I get the impression that Kath was and is held in high esteem.
When you say open sand plunge do you mean open to the elements?
and when you say some are kept under cover and dry when dormant would sitting them in a garage be OK?
Helen
Yes, open to the elements.
A garage would be fine.
I grow lots of potted bulbs & I have no alpine house - a device to protect the grower - just a large home-made frame for when the plants are in flower
-
Yes, open to the elements.
A garage would be fine.
I grow lots of potted bulbs & I have no alpine house - a device to protect the grower - just a large home-made frame for when the plants are in flower
Excellent that sounds a lot less expensive
-
Helen - perhaps I should have added that I grow all my bulbs in clay pots. I have no experience with these new-fangled plastic jobs which maybe need different treatment.
-
Helen - perhaps I should have added that I grow all my bulbs in clay pots. I have no experience with these new-fangled plastic jobs which maybe need different treatment.
No worries I was assuming clay pots was the way to go anyway :)
-
Helen - may I suggest you try & get hold of a second-hand copy of Kath Dryden's booklet Alpines in Pots (an AGS publication); it contains a lot about bulbs.
Copies available online from as little as £5.49 delivered - but I think the AGS bookstore may still have copies..... £4 for members, and if you can drop in to Pershore, then no delivery cost.... ;)
-
I get the impression that Kath was and is held in high esteem.
She was a wonderful woman and a dear friend, Helen. No pretensions to her and keen to encourage everyone. She is VERY sadly missed.
-
You can't do better than the bulb log for advice, Helen. Also, as you are considerably further south than Ian, you might cast an eye over the growing info page on my website as I'm also a relative southerner.
One other thing, growing bulbs for showing in plunged clay pots is my method as well, but you will find that roots will emerge from the drainage hole into the plunge medium, so excavate the pot carefully to avoid damage to the escaped roots. I usually put the pot into another slightly larger one with a little damp compost in the bottom to keep the errant roots alive until they are returned to the plunge after the show. It's also a lazy way of not having to wash the pot!
-
You can't do better than the bulb log for advice, Helen. Also, as you are considerably further south than Ian, you might cast an eye over the growing info page on my website as I'm also a relative southerner.
One other thing, growing bulbs for showing in plunged clay pots is my method as well, but you will find that roots will emerge from the drainage hole into the plunge medium, so excavate the pot carefully to avoid damage to the escaped roots. I usually put the pot into another slightly larger one with a little damp compost in the bottom to keep the errant roots alive until they are returned to the plunge after the show. It's also a lazy way of not having to wash the pot!
I am all for simple options and this explains the double pot method I heard referred to at the weekend! I will pop over to your website
-
A point about 'double potting' - this method is also used to keep plants that need to maintain a steady temperature "comfortable" while they travel to the show. Also , some plants may prefer to be grown in a small pot and double potting them for the show can make them more steady on the bench and look better too as well as keeping them cool/moist more easily. ..... Lots of reasons to double pot.
Beware, of course that doing so will not take your pot size above the regulation size. It can sometimes be at little tricky to get pots to fit neatly inside each-other - worth thinking about that factor when doing the initial potting!
-
A point about 'double potting' - this method is also used to keep plants that need to maintain a steady temperature "comfortable" while they travel to the show. Also , some plants may prefer to be grown in a small pot and double potting them for the show can make them more steady on the bench and look better too as well as keeping them cool/moist more easily. ..... Lots of reasons to double pot.
Beware, of course that doing so will not take your pot size above the regulation size. It can sometimes be at little tricky to get pots to fit neatly inside each-other - worth thinking about that factor when doing the initial potting!
Eee gads there is so much to learn and there was I last year struggling to get my daffs planted in the garden. I think I am beyond being on a steep learning curve more a vertical ascent!
I wrote about my first AGS show here - thought you might like it
http://patientgardener.wordpress.com/2013/07/13/getting-braver-and-winning/ (http://patientgardener.wordpress.com/2013/07/13/getting-braver-and-winning/)
-
Eee gads there is so much to learn and there was I last year struggling to get my daffs planted in the garden. I think I am beyond being on a steep learning curve more a vertical ascent!
I wrote about my first AGS show here - thought you might like it
http://patientgardener.wordpress.com/2013/07/13/getting-braver-and-winning/ (http://patientgardener.wordpress.com/2013/07/13/getting-braver-and-winning/)
Well, if it were TOO simple it wouldn't be so much fun and give such a good buzz of achievment, would it ? ;) :D
Thanks for the blog link - that should get others interested too. And yes, I reckon if you can "fly to San Francisco on your own with connections" then showing is a doddle!
I've never done that sort of journey and I'm full of admiration for those who can!
-
Well, if it were TOO simple it wouldn't be so much fun and give such a good buzz of achievment, would it ? ;) :D
Thanks for the blog link - that should get others interested too. And yes, I reckon if you can "fly to San Francisco on your own with connections" then showing is a doddle!
I've never done that sort of journey and I'm full of admiration for those who can!
I think growing plants and bulbs for showing is teaching me lots more than I would learn from normal growing in the garden which is great for me as I want to learn more but don't want to do it formally. And after all I think the best way of learning is by doing.
The trip to San francisco was really out of my comfort zone and I took some persuading that I could do it but it was surprisingly easy and I only resorted to damsel in distress routine once!!!! I went to meet with other garden bloggers (about 60 from the US) to look around gardens. I have learnt that my wonderful Aeoniums are only a mere shadow of those growing in the ground in California :(
-
Sorry, rather than start a new topic I thought I would ask my related question on this thread - Hope that's ok?
I too am a newbie and complete novice, and I just wondered where I should be looking at to buy bulbs to grow in the hope of showing?
Are there any suppliers/nurseries best to go to......
Thanks
Ivan
-
Some forumist suppliers are a good place to start Ivan -
Susan Band in Perthshire http://www.pitcairnalpines.co.uk/ (http://www.pitcairnalpines.co.uk/)
Rob Potterton http://www.pottertons.co.uk/pott/ (http://www.pottertons.co.uk/pott/)
Anne Wright : http://www.dryad-home.co.uk/ (http://www.dryad-home.co.uk/)
The Callens Family : http://www.greenmilenursery.be/ (http://www.greenmilenursery.be/)
and all sorts of good links here : http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?action=links (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?action=links)
-
Thanks Maggi - that's great.
I hadn't found the links section, still trying to find my way around the forum :)
-
:) It's not easy finding everything, Ivan, it is such a big site.
You will find that quite a lot of the links refer to the sites of members - some great sources there - have fun rootling around!
-
Helen - are you going to write up any of those Californian gardens on your blog? The Group photograph looks as though everyone is enjoying it greatly... (reminds me of another event!). Have a look at Fiona Wemyss's website too:
www.blueleafplants.co.uk (http://www.blueleafplants.co.uk) - for succulent plants rather than bulbs.
-
Helen - are you going to write up any of those Californian gardens on your blog? The Group photograph looks as though everyone is enjoying it greatly... (reminds me of another event!). Have a look at Fiona Wemyss's website too:
www.blueleafplants.co.uk (http://www.blueleafplants.co.uk) - for succulent plants rather than bulbs.
Hi Tim
Probably not. To be honest I saw so many gardens that my head was full of impressions and it is hard to sort it out. I didn't take enough photos either.
However you can access other attendees posts via the Garden Bloggers Spring Fling blog http://gardenbloggersfling.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://gardenbloggersfling.blogspot.co.uk/) - if you scroll down you will see each garden we visited listed and in the comments you will find links to others blog posts
Helen
-
Helen
There can be several reasons for double potting, whether for showing or not, and bulbs or other plants. For difficult to grow plants it may be so that the roots are not disturbed, or to stabilise the watering regime, and they are permanently grown that way. Usually both pots are visible.
You may not be aware with showing that plants are double potted as the inside pot is buried. Pots in clay often look better even though the grower may grow most of their plants in plastic. Look at the pots, do they look too clean, are they dry all over, is the bottom wetter than the top? These can often indicate if the plants are growing in the show pot.
In a group of 3 plants you may want to just balance up the group pot size so they look similar.
If you grow bulbs like Ian with lots of bulbs in a small pot, but would like to show it. Just drop it into a larger and cover with grit, cutting off the rim of the inner pot with scissors if necessary. Plastic is cheap. A larger clean pot will often make a so so pot look much better.
-
many thanks Brian
I am so impressed with every ones generousity with information