Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Flowers and Foliage Now => Topic started by: fredg on June 01, 2013, 10:09:15 AM
-
This is my Podophyllum peltatum, such a shame that the plant wants to hide the flowers under the leaves.
-
Podophyllum peltatum
Careful with that one!
It's native here.
johnw
-
Some big-flowered P. delavayi best x delavayi 2nd best today.
johnw
-
Thought this would be the right place to put this.
Podophyllum difforme flowering for the first time and flowering for a while..well I hope it is??
While its out I decided to brush pollin from delavayi hybrids onto it. I also brushed the difforme pollin onto pleianthum and some onto delavayi hybrids and see what I get.
cheers
Stephen
-
Stephen, good to see you are out there with the plants - we have been seeing such terrifying scenes of the fires in the Blue Mountains we didn't know how things might be with you.
-
Hi Maggie,
Im doing fine...thanks. The fires did get close to home about 8km away but the winds kept it away.
When the fires started last thursday I did have to leave work early.We had 90 plus km winds driving the fire over 50km over mountain terraine in 4 hours..thats fast!..to where I work at Mount Tomah. Thankfully it was directed behind Mt Tomah and 2 other mountain villages that are very secluded.
The Botanic Garden at Mount Tomah and the village as well as Mount Wilson were very lucky with a wind change and lowering of wind speed so the fire could be controled by fire fighters.
There were a few unlucky towns that caught the full force of the fires and houses were burnt down as you may have heard.
Bush fires here are a way of life here, every summer but this one caught everyone by surprise as it was early.
-
A few Podophyllums from a forum member raised by seeds.
At the time crossing delavayi x veitchii is not a hybrids as veitchii is a syn of delavayi. Im wondering if this will delevilope thoses "snow flake" like leaves or more dissecting in the edge of the leaves as the plants mature??
And flowers on the versipelle x emodi. Very unlike the parents
-
Fore plant looks like straight delavayi as you suggest, the rear one looks like like delavayi x pleianthum here.
The second photo - I have never heard of anyone crossing versipelle or pleianthum with emodi and was just wondering if it were possible. What you show looks more like a delavayi or hybrid of the same. Could be the cross didn't take.
johnw
-
Hi John,
I thought you may have commented on the earlier post of the difforme flowers. Do you grow this one? Im hoping its true as it was a Chin yi plant. Ive saved some pollin to transfer onto another when it flowers in hope for variation seen in thoses darker forms with some silver markings.
cheers
-
John, Stephen,
I have tried several times to pollinate Podo hexandrum flowers with pollen of other Podo species always resulting in nice fruits full of seed and normal hexandrum seedlings. When Pollinating delavayi or pleianthum with hexandrum pollen I got no fruits at all. So I am curious to know which was the pollen donor in this hexandrum versipelle cross and I would very much like to see a picture of the whole plant.
Robin
-
Hi John, I thought you may have commented on the earlier post of the difforme flowers. Do you grow this one? Im hoping its true as it was a Chin yi plant. Ive saved some pollin to transfer onto another when it flowers in hope for variation seen in thoses darker forms with some silver markings. cheers
Stephen - Sorry I missed that post completely. Until recently I have not had any luck with difforme. I have had plants arrive in perfect shape, settle in nicely and then collapse and die a month or so later. Philip MacD says it has been the same for him but he had an endless supply - a fellow in Vanvouver with a yard full of them, that is until they all collapsed and died last year. Even seedlings here do the same thing. More recently Philip's difformes come up, collapse somewhat later but don't die. Robin sent me seed in autumn 2011 and these have been fine, Philip was here last week and says they look like his seedlings of difforme - when a difforme lives we all doubt it is the real thing!
So the bottomline is I can't identify your plant as I have had no experience with difforme at such an advanced age.
We have a pleianthum in an isolated garden that has set fruit this year and the only other Podo in the neighborhood is hexandrum. I'll let you know if there's any seed, they might be worth keeping separated. We don't have much luck sprouting hexandrum.........
johnw - +11c
-
Hi John,
ok I'll have a look around the net for flower identification on difforme. One noticeable identifying feature are the hairs on the pedicels which I read somewhere and the flowers do look differant to the other species.
Im curious to why difforme drops dead...is it the freezing temps? Here the leaves do hang on through autumns end.
If your wanting to increase hexandrum and you say sprouting, you mean germinating??..it will increase by root cutting taken with a bit of the rhyzome, you can get alot this way.
Actually most Podophyllums will increase this way. Great for increasing a good hybrid form :)
Robin,
I will see if I can get a full pick of the versipelle x emodi, there maybe a few in the row planted with that cross. I just took the pick with the flowers for identification. I didnt think much of the leaves when they emerged but they all do better year after year and i do find this interesting.
-
I'm curious to why difforme drops dead...is it the freezing temps? Here the leaves do hang on through autumns end.
If your wanting to increase hexandrum and you say sprouting, you mean germinating??..it will increase by root cutting taken with a bit of the rhyzome, you can get alot this way.
Stephen - My difformes died under halide lights with no frost, they have also died in the cool greenhouse, again no frost. Philip's died in his frost-free hoophouse and outdoors as I recall.
We have quite the backlog of hexandrum seed pots and nary a seed has ever germinated. I thought there was mention recently of Krystl Walek's method of germinating them but I can't seem to find that.
johnw - sunny & +6c
-
I thought there was mention recently of Crystal Walek's method of germinating them but I can't seem to find that.
johnw - sunny & +6c
There was indeed .... in this P. hexandrum thread
www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10947.msg284653#msg284653 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10947.msg284653#msg284653)
-
Thanks Maggi.
johnw
-
Robin,
this is the leaf of the versipelle x emodi in question. I can only quess that emodi would be the pollin onto versipelle as written on label.
cheers
Stephen
-
Stephen - Is it the lighting or do I really see darker green patches on those leaves?
johnw - first very light frost at 2am.
-
John theres no dark patches just the lighting but the leaf did come up with a reddish tinge, I wish I took the pick then and now thinking versipelle allways comes up green?
Reading about emodi, can they really get big leaves, ive only seen them as big as the palm of my hand. This hybrid looks biger than that.
cheers
-
John theres no dark patches just the lighting but the leaf did come up with a reddish tinge, I wish I took the pick then and now thinking versipelle allways comes up green?
Reading about emodi, can they really get big leaves, ive only seen them as big as the palm of my hand. This hybrid looks biger than that.cheers
Stephen - I am trying to guess the size of hexandrum leaves here and would say about twice the size of my hand. The height & leaf size varies according to spring rainfall but they have been breast height.
Would be easier if I had an exact measurement of the open flower but then again the leaf is not fully expanded at that point.
johnw
-
Stephen,
Both Podo versipelle and hexandrum have a leaf margin with regurlarly spaced and closely positioned small teeth.
I think it's odd that a hybrid between those two has a leaf margin with irregularly spaced teeth.
Robin
-
Robin - Many gardeners have versipelle when in fact it is pleianthum. How would it fit in the equation here?
johnw
-
Sorry,John, I d'ont quite understand your question.
Robin
-
Robin - Sorry. Does Stephen's plant look like a pleianthum x hexandrum, if one can imagine the outcome?
It would be a first, would it not?
johnw
-
John, I would imagine another leaf form (deeper lobes) and different leafmargin. But I am puzzled by the flowers: are they closed or open,where are they positioned (in the fork or higher up on one of the stems),only two flowers or more? It would be instructive to see the whole plant with stem ,two leaves and its flowers.
Robin
-
John,
Very nice hexandrum, I never imagined them to look like this at maturity, large in size with so many lobes and serrations.
Robin I agree with what your saying as I too from the begining questioned the cross as the flowers dont look hexandrum like but the young colouration in the leaves puzzles me, they are not typically green like versipelle or pleianthum they come out with a reddish tinge. This plant is only 3 years and theres only 2 flowers and they are opened, they look similair to delavayi. I think I will keep an eye on these plants next year and see if the leaves change at maturity like hexandrum does.
Do either of you chaps have a pick of a pleianthum or versipelli x delavayi to compare? If thats what it could be.
cheers
-
Stephen - Here are a few shots for comparison:
delavayi x pleianthum (the reverse of slide title)
delavayi x pleianthum (the reverse of slide title)
delavayi x versipelle
delavayi strange flower
May the seed donor can shed some light on which Podos are in his collection.
johnw
-
Stephen, John
1 Podo delavayi x pleianthum (pollen)
2 Podo mairei x delavayi (pollen)
3 Podo peltatum x pleianthum (pollen)
-
Interesting to see these crosses Robin. Especially interesting was your cross of mairiei x delavayi as I did the reverse cross, delavayi x mairiei, this past spring and noted upon collection:
"2 of 3 took & produced only 11 good seeds"
johnw
-
Nice hybrid forms there John and Robin..John do you have those plant picks that are a little more advanced?
Robin that delavayi x pleianthum is a very good rusty red. Looks similar to what I have when I described it with a red tinge.That cross goes under the name of 'Red Panda' released by Terra Nova.Yours looks even better and maybe because you have a better red delavayi form?? like the one in the same pic left of it.
Spotty Dotty and Kaleidoscope crosses are worth duplicating. Ever tried it?
-
Stephen,
Do you know which species were crossed to produce Spotty Dotty and Kaleidoscope ? I d'ont think they have the same parents.
Robin
-
Podophyllum delavayi x pleianthum and delavayi x pleianthum or versipelle. First photo is late in the season.
johnw
-
Stephen, Do you know which species were crossed to produce Spotty Dotty and Kaleidoscope ? I d'ont think they have the same parents. Robin
Only a 50% hint here - http://www.pacifichorticulture.org/articles/podophyllums-the-mayapples-of-asia-and-america-2/ (http://www.pacifichorticulture.org/articles/podophyllums-the-mayapples-of-asia-and-america-2/)
Note the outrageous planter of Podos at Hinkley's. :o
johnw
-
Note the outrageous planter of Podos at Hinkley's. :o
john
Oh my word, yes! Magnificent ly over the top! And the photo was taken by Riz Reyes..... he hasn't been around the forum for donkey's years. Blogging nowadays, if I remember correctly........
yup! http://nextgenerationgardener.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://nextgenerationgardener.blogspot.co.uk/)
-
A feature that distinguishes Podo aurantiocaule from all other species is the presence of little hairs on its leaf margin. Have a look on the leaf margin of Podo Spotty Dotty.
1 leaf margin Podo aurantiocaule
2 Podo Spotty Dotty
3 Leaf margin Spotty Dotty
-
A feature that distinguishes Podo aurantiocaule from all other species is the presence of little hairs on its leaf margin. Have a look on the leaf margin of Podo Spotty Dotty.
1 leaf margin Podo aurantiocaule
2 Podo Spotty Dotty
3 Leaf margin Spotty Dotty
Great to know Robin. Any thoughts on Kaleidoscope's other partner, that is if one parent is indeed difforme? I don't grow it but most people I know that do have lost it and that would make one think difforme is the culprit.
johnw
-
My experience with Sinopodophyllum hexandrum seed is that is comes up like cress if sown fresh. I have had reports that this is the same for Podophyllum peltatum. So if you need any plants we are knee deep in them!
-
Robin,
in regards to spotty dotty there is still some mistery behind it,
a quote" This new cultivar originated from a cross between Podophyllum hybrid ‘374’ (an unpatented proprietary plant) as the seed parent and Podophyllum delavayi ‘64’ (an unpatented proprietary plant) as the pollen parent. The seed parent, Podophyllum hybrid ‘374’, is an outstanding selection out of a hybrid swarm from a Japanese nursery, which is believed to have come from P. difforme, P. delavayi, and P. versipelle. The pollen parent, Podophyllum delavayi ‘64’ is a highly colored selection. The new cultivar was chosen for its outstanding foliage and vigor.
When looking at auranticaule I can see why, leaf shape and habit looks to be involved.
-
John your plants are outstanding...very nice leaves....and yes I have seen that article, Dan had some nice delavayi selections.
and this is the info on Kaleidoscope..quote.
This new cultivar originated from a cross between Podophyllum hybrid 374 (an unpatented proprietary plant) as the seed parent and Podophyllum hybrid 352 (an unpatented proprietary plant) as the pollen parent. These two Podophyllum hybrids are outstanding selections out of a hybrid swarm in a Japanese nursery, which I believe come from P. difforme, P. delavayi, and P. versipelle. The new cultivar was chosen for its outstanding foliage and vigor.
so the hybrid may never really be figured out
-
This is one of my Podopyllum difforme and a second picture showing the leaf shape.
The leaves have faded now at the end of the season but earlier in the year have quite spectacular markings.
At the moment they live in a frame but i am looking to plant them out.
-
Tony - Do you often see difforme seedlings that have only one flat side to the leaf? And do these become rectangular later?
Here we have tried seed from spotted difforme and green velvety difforme and as you might guess the latter is the survivor.
I can't help but think of the sets in Dr. Caligari's Cabinet when I see a spectacular difforme!
johnw
-
John I raised only a couple from seed about five years ago and still have them as well as the original plant and they all have had square leaves from the start. They are velvety but have lovely markings earlier in the season.
-
John I raised only a couple from seed about five years ago and still have them as well as the original plant and they all have had square leaves from the start. They are velvety but have lovely markings earlier in the season.
Sorry. When I had a closer look the flat in question was half straight difforme and half Spotty Dotty. The difformes were all square!
johnw
-
I had some Podophyllum seed from the late Mavis Allanson's garden and asked for advice on sowing. Maggi put me on to Kristl Walek's piece and it worked a treat. All 10 seeds sprouted in the vermiculite and then I potted them up and dosed with Giberellic acid and here we are 10 seedlings all through, though rather drawn because of the terrible grey weather we have had recently.
-
A feature that distinguishes Podo aurantiocaule from all other species is the presence of little hairs on its leaf margin. Have a look on the leaf margin of Podo Spotty Dotty.
I think several species may have that trait, see for example this one from Chengkou: https://plus.google.com/photos/105949321477278762609/albums/5737136556814267345/5737139962441376306?banner=pwa&pid=5737139962441376306&oid=105949321477278762609
-
An update on the Podophyllum hexandra seed sown following Kristl's method. Brian came to show me this yesterday. He was surprised that after all this time the cotyledons had not produced anything else but then he spotted this.