Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: wmel on January 20, 2013, 01:55:16 PM
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a new year has started a few weeks ago. for everyone al the best for 2013!
In holland januari started very warm, but januari 12 it started to freeze.
A lot of our allium already came out, so we put straw on to protect against the frost.
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Here I have up to minus 25, but fortunately all is covered by 20-25 cm of snow. I only walked by all passes between beds pressing dawn snow for frost could harden soil making barriers for rodents.
Janis
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In the Netherlands it is still too cold! what a difference with last year!
last year allium paradoxum was already flowering, and also the first tulips were in bloom.
Now it freezes every night and the first alliums and tulips just come out of the ground. (Attached pictures; April 3 last year and today 31 March)
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Dear Forumists,
From today you can see my home-page on http://rarebulbs.lv - it opens on Internet Explorer, but still not on Google search (I don't know - why). There you can find all my catalogue and 99% of items have pictures attached. There is GARDEN NEWS topic where you can print your questions and I will try to reply as soon as possible as I will inform about news from my garden and collection. Arriving of young generation gives me more time and more advanced technologies.
Janis
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Very nice web site Janis, it opened in Google Chrome for me. Account opened.
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Dear Forumists,
From today you can see my home-page on http://rarebulbs.lv - it opens on Internet Explorer, but still not on Google search (I don't know - why). There you can find all my catalogue and 99% of items have pictures attached. There is GARDEN NEWS topic where you can print your questions and I will try to reply as soon as possible as I will inform about news from my garden and collection. Arriving of young generation gives me more time and more advanced technologies.
Janis
Nice to see al photo's!! easy to order online
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A newly described onion from Kyrgyzstan : (full article available)
PhytoKeys 21 (2013) : 29-36
Allium formosum Sennikov & Lazkov (Amaryllidaceae), a new species from Kyrgyzstan
Alexander Sennikov, Georgy Lazkov
Read online :
http://www.pensoft.net/journals/phytokeys/article/4130/allium-formosum-sennikov-lazkov-amaryllidaceae-a-new-species-from-kyrgyzstan (http://www.pensoft.net/journals/phytokeys/article/4130/allium-formosum-sennikov-lazkov-amaryllidaceae-a-new-species-from-kyrgyzstan)
pdf available for download, also.
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It also opens in The newest Firefox Janis
Roland
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No problem with Safari either.
Nice to see that Allium egorovae with new name. Like you, I got this from Cambridge bulbs some years ago as A. elburzense. Nice plant. Two bulbs are about to flower here.
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Tristagma bivalve
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Some photos made today. At last the alliums are starting to grow....
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Unusual Allium from West corner of China and Kazahstan border. Can't identify it. May be new one?
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Unusual Allium from West corner of China and Kazahstan border. Can't identify it. May be new one?
What ever it is, it's a beauty!
Is it flowering now?
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Unusual Allium from West corner of China and Kazakhstan border. Can't identify it. May be new one?
Janis i think it might be Allium semenowii
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Found an image.
http://www.hagegal.no/hagefora/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44009 (http://www.hagegal.no/hagefora/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44009)
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First one to flower here this year (as it is every year), allium paradoxum var normale
seed from nectaroscordum tripedale, last year no germination, this year 100% ????
and seed from Allium Silver Spring, last year al frozen, this year, with al lot of straw, only a little damage.
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Janis i think it might be Allium semenowii
Thank you, Oron. You are right. Here three pictures of A. semenovii in wild.
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Janis, that is such a cool Allium, do you grow it?
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Good find Janis
Roland
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At present I have it. I collected it last May at blooming time - some 3-4 bulbs. One sent to Gatersleben Institute. Others alived this winter and as you can see from first entry one even bloomed with me regardless of collecting during flowering time. Will see in future - how it will grow, will it set seeds etc. It is really very pretty.
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flowering now; allium fibrillum
and just a view from today......
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Allium jesdianum ssp. angustitepalum
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Stil to cold in Holland, but a few alliums start to flower
photo 1; allium zebdanense
photo 2; allium paradoxum var normale (end of flowering)
photo 3; allium elburzense (bought from Janis in 2012)
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Started blooming of Alliums. Outside paradoxum are in full bloom but in this entry few from greenhouse
Allium libani from Syria
Allium shatakiense (is it true?). LST-222
Allium parvum from America
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Janis very nice especially the second one.
A couple of mine in flower first Allium akaka from Turkey then a species I collected some years ago flowering for the first time.
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A couple of mine in flower first Allium akaka from Turkey then a species I collected some years ago flowering for the first time.
Nice !
I think the second allium could be allium karputense??
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Oh, this Allium akaka is a fine piece.
Allium falcifolium in a pot:
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Allium's flowering now.....
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Last year we were on holiday in Greece- Kreta.
We collected some allium, they grow well here (ampeloprasum type's)
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a few photo's from yesterday and allium pendulinum is flowering.
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The first flower on Allium shelkovnikovii from JJA Seeds 137.050.
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Allium
neapolitanum ??? subhirsutum
A collection from Corsica
or a lost bulbil in a pot Anemone
Roland
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Allium neapolitanum ???
Roland
Roland
I would say Allium subhirsutum, A. neapolitanum has a triangular stem.
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Hi Oron
I think that you are right
Forgot that Allium subhirsutum also grows in Corsica
Thanks for solving
Roland
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In holland it is still to cold for this time of the year, but at last some allium's start flowering now!
allium derderianum
allium haemanthoides
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some more photo's
allium woronowii
allium minutiflorum
allium karataviense seedling
allium protensum
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A couple of mine in flower first Allium akaka from Turkey then a species I collected some years ago flowering for the first time.
I read the response from Mark on the NARGS forum, and I must say that now allium orientale and colchicifolium in my collection also flourish, recognizing from a picture is quite difficult.
I don't do research on the Internet regarding the possible allium species, but look only in my own collection, and since there are a lot of Alliums that are similar to each other, I'm probably wrong about most species recognition.
Anyway, I do my best!
allium oriėntale
allium colchicifolium
allium ellisii
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Hello Weitse, I've been quietly admiring your fantastic alliums on SRGCs, been wanting to comment, but find that with work I don't have time to participate both on NARGS and SRGC. As it is now, I'm traveling for my job, I'm in Las Angeles, California for the week of intense certification training, and I'll have very little time and internet access during the week.
But wanted to say how much I'm enjoying your photos; the images of forms of Allium woronowii show it to be a spectacular onion. And its good to see such rarities as ellisii, minutiflorum, and colchicifolium, all very nice and in such healthy full flower.
On my ID for the Allium Tony Willis cross-posted to both SRGC and NARGS, I used the Tubives (online Flora of Turkey) web resource to narrow down what species of allium actually occur in a specific province, quite a excellent resource for ID'ing Turkish flora. Based on those results, I think Tony's plant is A. orientale.
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=1305.msg23526#msg23526 (http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=1305.msg23526#msg23526)
Regards, and keep on posting. :)
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some photo's from today
allium bodeanum
allium pseudobodeanum
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and some more.....
allium winkelerianum
allium tolmeyii tolmeyii
allium tolmeyii platyphyllum
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and (for today) the last 2 photo's
allium ellisii
allium elburzense
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Allium chloranthum as offered by PC
his description says blooms in late summer but this is blooming now several weeks before Allium flavum has even set flower buds.
can anyone confirm the id?
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A weedy blue allium grown from NARGS seed. grows 20-30 inches tall and has lots of bulb offsets, a good doer in my raised beds and in the hot sunny garden.
does any one know its identity?
Thanks
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Allium chloranthum as offered by PC
his description says blooms in late summer but this is blooming now several weeks before Allium flavum has even set flower buds.
can anyone confirm the id?
Here are a couple of links to pix in the Forum, Rimmer, which may be of interest :
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg151714#msg151714 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg151714#msg151714) 2010 - photo from Aleesandro- Mark McD. commented:
Alessandro - what is the source on your A. chloranthum? It is a stronger green-yellow color than mine... mine is also with a greenish or chartreuse tinge, but not as dark green as yours.
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=1315.msg202918#msg202918 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=1315.msg202918#msg202918) shown at Lisse 2011
From Wietse : http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=6685.msg204607#msg204607 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=6685.msg204607#msg204607)
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Thanks Maggie
it looks Allium chloranthum is spring blooming per the prior posts
Rimmer
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Allium scabriscapum PC in bud, quite interesting looking buds- bud has been in this state for a week regardless of the sunny but not too hot weather
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Allium rotundum jajlae (aka A. scorodoprasum jajlae) grown from NARGS seed (ex Ruksans)
12" tall, well behaved, good form, this is on of my favorite little purple drumsticks
Rimmer
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Allium scabriscapum PC in bud, quite interesting looking buds- bud has been in this state for a week regardless of the sunny but not too hot weather
It takes some time, but it will flower very beautiful as you can see in the foto.
I think it's a real beauty!
your allium chloranthum is true, it is (as it does normal) flowering much earlier then allium flavum.
Your blue allium could be some allium caesium form, or allium caeruleum
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Wmel
I am happy to see your A. scabriscapum out in the field. The descriptions say it is stoleniferous and difficult - need very dry summer.
Since your photo is from 2012 what is your experience with it over the previous summer and wet winter?
Now I hope to relocate it to the garden when dormant and hope this action does not disturbed its increase.
Thanks for posting your pictures and confirmation on the other alliums.
Rimmer
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Can anyone help identifiy this 24" tall pink allium blooming now, i dont know where it came from likely seed ex seeds
A. splendens.
Thank you
Rimmer
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Rimmer, your allium looks like A. splendens. At first I thought hymenorrhizum, but that's typically a larger (taller) plant and flowers later.
I'm envious seeing Allium scabriscapum being grown successfully, had seedlings a couple times but have not yet succeeded growing them for long.
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Allium insubricum
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Very nice, Michael.
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Can't agree more Arnold :)
Is there a trick for growing them
I tried it a few times but without success >:(
It seems they need cold to germinate
seeds are now three years not germinated even with added snow
still no success :(
Roland
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lovely Michael!
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A few species and hybrids from here, all flowering very well now, much later than usual due to the very cold and wet spring :
Pontus
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and more beauties :)
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and a few more...
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Wmel
I am happy to see your A. scabriscapum out in the field. The descriptions say it is stoleniferous and difficult - need very dry summer.
Since your photo is from 2012 what is your experience with it over the previous summer and wet winter?
Now I hope to relocate it to the garden when dormant and hope this action does not disturbed its increase.
Thanks for posting your pictures and confirmation on the other alliums.
Rimmer
My allium scabriscapum I left in the ground all year round, and it has green leaves at this moment but is not flowering yet.
As soon as it is, I will post a photo!
Wietse
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and more beauties :)
Pontus,
Is the colour of your barsczewskyi aman kutan real as red as the photo is showing?, it is a very beautiful colour!
I think your allium woronowii is allium decipiens ssp quercetorum
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some alliums flowering today;
allium hyalinum
allium shelkovnikovii
allium cassium var hirtellum
allium baisunense
allium caesium "Aravan"
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and some more......
allium seedling caesium
allium oreophilum "Kuramins Dwarf"
allium komarovii
allium alexejanum
allium view
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This 12-18" tall white allium came as wild collected seed from SW Oregon labelled as Allium siskiyouense.
Can anyone confirm its identity?
The photos of Allium siskiyouense I find on line show a purple pink flower
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Dear friends, to justify the slogan "an onion farmer to the forum", made up and generously granted to me by Maggi, this June I visited Weitse Mellema's farm in Holland. So now I can boast that I have seen an onion farm at least. And what a day it was! As the season is late this year in the Netherlands I was lucky to see many alliums in bloom. Here are some pictures taken there. Sorry, no names of plants (they were so numerous). I hope the pics will be downloaded in the right position (when I post vertical pictures they are shown on their sides here). But this is not a problem for those with I pads or lap tops :D Some more pictures will follow if and when I'm successful with resizing them as they are all more than 200 kb. Help will be appreciated
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This 12-18" tall white allium came as wild collected seed from SW Oregon labelled as Allium siskiyouense.
Can anyone confirm its identity?
The photos of Allium siskiyouense I find on line show a purple pink flower
Hi Rimmer, it's certainly NOT Allium siskiyouense, a small dwarf species like A. crenulatum, your plant looks like the asian Allium ramosum to me, probably a seed mixup.
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Dear friends, to justify the slogan "an onion farmer to the forum", made up and generously granted to me by Maggi, this June I visited Weitse Mellema's farm in Holland. So now I can boast that I have seen an onion farm at least. And what a day it was! As the season is late this year in the Netherlands I was lucky to see many alliums in bloom. Here are some pictures taken there. Sorry, no names of plants (they were so numerous). I hope the pics will be downloaded in the right position (when I post vertical pictures they are shown on their sides here). But this is not a problem for those with I pads or lap tops :D Some more pictures will follow if and when I'm successful with resizing them as they are all more than 200 kb. Help will be appreciated
You were our first forum allium fan, Oleg! Great to see you and Wietse - and those very tall onions. Now I see why you were too busy this year to visit us here!
You must have seen all Wietse's wonderful onions before they were exhibited at Lisse - such a privilege.
Luit tells us he showed around 100 at Lisse this week - that's a lot of onions!
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I'm glad, Maggi, that I'm not the only one now. And due to the forum I have received a lot of useful advice from real allium farmers and pundits. Yes I had a privilege to see all these alliums on June, 11. I had never seen some of them flowering and had a vague idea of the existence of some of them (esp. hybrids). Also I was fascinated by all the machinery used in bulb farming. I couldn't even guess that there is a machine to cut seed heads of tulips. Unfortunately I'm still struggling with the PC to resize the pictures. I remember some advice on how to do this in the forum but have failed to find it so far
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Hello Weitse,
yes, it is that very nice deep pink purple colour, although the last 2 pictures where taken in evening light, so look a bit more red. I would say that in real life, the plant is more like the first image. Of course, with digital photography, it is sometimes hard to capture a colour to 100%, but I would say it is fairly close...
They are doing well here, so if you want some, maybe we can swap?
I think you are correct about the mislabelled woronowii....ever since they started flowering i had my suspicions....as they did not look close to the images of woronowii i had seen on the internet....also, they did not really have the nice smell often associated with woronowii.....:(!...
Pontus
Pontus,
Is the colour of your barsczewskyi aman kutan real as red as the photo is showing?, it is a very beautiful colour!
I think your allium woronowii is allium decipiens ssp quercetorum
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I'm glad, Maggi, that I'm not the only one now. And due to the forum I have received a lot of useful advice from real allium farmers and pundits. Yes I had a privilege to see all these alliums on June, 11. I had never seen some of them flowering and had a vague idea of the existence of some of them (esp. hybrids). Also I was fascinated by all the machinery used in bulb farming. I couldn't even guess that there is a machine to cut seed heads of tulips. Unfortunately I'm still struggling with the PC to resize the pictures. I remember some advice on how to do this in the forum but have failed to find it so far
I am envious of your visit, Oleg.
I have sent you a link to some help for resizing photos ;.))
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The only allium that I keep aside from the garden worthy plants which are strewn throughout borders etc is Allium sikkimense
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The only allium that I keep aside from the garden worthy plants which are strewn throughout borders etc is Allium sikkimense
allium sikkimense is a real beauty, and never a problem in your garden!
The 2 photos you show are allium cyathophorum far farreri (also a beauty, but indeed a little weedy)
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some more photo's from today
allium bolanderi mirabile
allium siskiyouense
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« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2013, 02:05:20 PM »
Mark thanks for your interest!
I find it very unfortunate that the last two years less and less people have interest in the forum.
Especially where it concerns the Alliums, because I think there is about far more to it, and there are still many Alliums to show.
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I see that over 2000 people have read this thread so far- is there really a decrease in interest in allium?
I do think there is quite a lot of disappointment from folks who buy allium bulbs for the garden that do not grow well - I've had that conversation with several people, but I think the interest is there- maybe just needs more reliable supplies to the trade than many of us can find.
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I purchased both Allium narcissiflorum and A. insubricum some years ago.
A. narcissiflorum has done well but insubricum less so.
1. A. narcissiflorum
2. A. insubricum
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I see that over 2000 people have read this thread so far- is there really a decrease in interest in allium?
I do think there is quite a lot of disappointment from folks who buy allium bulbs for the garden that do not grow well - I've had that conversation with several people, but I think the interest is there- maybe just needs more reliable supplies to the trade than many of us can find.
I totally agree that buying allium bulbs often gives a disappointing result in the spring.
I also suffer from it regularly, even if I ordered the bulbs through "reliable" addresses .
With less interest I mean especially that less is posted.
if you look at allium 2010, 2011 and 2012 than the number of pages each year is decreasing.
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I love alliums but there are very limited sources in USA for decent stock either as bulbs or seed. And Almost all the allium seed from the exchanges is incorrectly identified and or fails to germinate either in warm or cold . So yes there is frustration but that will not stop me from trying to assemble a small collection.
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I purchased both Allium narcissiflorum and A. insubricum some years ago.
A. narcissiflorum has done well but insubricum less so.
they look spectacularly beautiful.
Allium narcissiflorum I don't have (not yet) (be sown this year)
and allium insubricum here is very difficult to grow. I think it's here in full sun is not ideal for this allium (to dry??)
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Graham and the other specialists, what is the difference between Allium narcissiflorum and Allium insubricum? I don't know what species my Allium is (here a picture from last year). Thanks.
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With less interest I mean especially that less is posted.
if you look at allium 2010, 2011 and 2012 than the number of pages each year is decreasing.
Ah, I see what you mean - yes, that is a shame.
Perhaps we need to have a major project to get and supply good well named seed to the onion lovers here - that would be a start!
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Graham and the other specialists, what is the difference between Allium narcissiflorum and Allium insubricum? I don't know what species my Allium is (here a picture from last year). Thanks.
I'm not a specialist I just grow a few and have to rely on the nursery for supplying the correct bulbs. Mine may both be the true species or both the same of either species. I have not looked closely enough to make a diagnosis but will do this year.
However, this is what Mark McDonough 'TheOnionMan' wrote on the forum in 2009 in two posts and I think we can call him a specialist.
The two species, Allium insubricum and narcissiflorum, are nearly identical, the major difference being that while the umbels are pendant or nodding in both species, they remain pendant in A. insubricum, but become erect when going to seed in A. narcissiflorum. There are other minor differences cited, but the nodding vs. erect characteristic seems the easiest to watch for.
I mentioned the most often cited difference, that the inflorescence of A. narcissiflorum become erect at late anthesis, but there are other differences.
Flower color is not really important diagnostically, in both species it is variable. Back in the 1980s when I lived in Seattle, Washington, I grew several color forms of both species, ranging from light pink, to deep reddish-purple (although it seems A. insubricum more commonly has the deeper color forms).
Allium narcissiflorum has slightly smaller flowers than insubricum, more openly campanulate too, and with potentially more flowers per head. Look at the foliage of the two species posted here, it's narrower in narcissiflorum... rather delicate, it is wider and more robust in insubricum. There are differences in bulb coats or tunics too, see Flora Europaea for details.
In cultivation it seems you have a higher chance of getting A. insubricum than true narcissiflorum, which is okay by me, as A. insubricum is a gorgeous species, as shown in Roma's photo. But of course, A. narcissiflorum is beautiful too. I fail miserably with both species in my hot and dry New England garden, still haven't found the right microclimate for either species.
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A few pictures from the recent Gardening Scotland Show which should inspire greater interest in alliums, which perhaps will translate to greater participation on the forum.
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Thank you, Graham. I think I'm going to observe whether the inflorescence erected later. But the distinction does not seem easy in fact.
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A. insubricum is a gorgeous species, as shown in Roma's photo.
Unfortunately it died in the 2010-2011 winter. I have a pot of seedlings (exchange seed) so hope to have it flowering again soon.
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... what is the difference between Allium narcissiflorum and Allium insubricum?
I wondered the same thing. Thanks Graham for reminding us of Mark's post.
These came from the SRGC Seedex labelled A. narcissiflorum, sown Jan 2007 and flowering for the first time. The few flowers per scape suggest A. insubricum but might be due to immaturity :-\ I'll watch how seed heads develop. Update 26 June: Pollinated flowers are turning upwards, so A. narcissiflorum it probably is.
However leaves are markedly narrower (3-4 mm) and more glaucous than what grew as A. insubricum (leaves 4-6 mm across) from the same exchange. Unfortunately the latter haven't flowered yet (so are probably not A. cyathophorum var. farreri anyway ::) ;D).
Also
A. peninsulare seed received as, now going over
A. moly (x2)
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Panayoti Kelaidis, who yesterday was starring at the SRGC's 80th "birthday party", has been blogging about onions :
Monday, June 24, 2013
Onions for crying out loud!
http://prairiebreak.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://prairiebreak.blogspot.co.uk/)
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Two more pictures of Weitse's fields I have managed to resize thank to the help of the forum friends
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Some more
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Can anyone help ID this allium? The lable says "seed 2007 Allium insubricum". This was the only seedling so real A.insubricum didn't germinate. But I'm happy to have this one flowering for the first time. The pictures were taken at the beginning of flowering just before my trip to Holland. When I came back the flowers had already faded. No seed this year, unfortunately. And sorry again if I still have problems with rotating.
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Can anyone help ID this allium? The lable says "seed 2007 Allium insubricum". This was the only seedling so real A.insubricum didn't germinate. But I'm happy to have this one flowering for the first time. The pictures were taken at the beginning of flowering just before my trip to Holland. When I came back the flowers had already faded. No seed this year, unfortunately. And sorry again if I still have problems with rotating.
This allium looks very nice.
The color is almost red, but I have no idea what it is.
How was the trip back home?
did you have any problems with the bulbs and plants?
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some photo's taken today;
1e allium membranaceum
2e allium tuncellianum
3e allium X : baisunense x trautvetteranum
4e allium seed from SRGC seed distribution
5e allium X :chloranthum x convallarioides
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As mentioned before, there is a lot of frustration in growing alliums. I love them, but sometimes it is a "hate-love".
Bulbs don't grow, seed does not germinate and the wrong names are always a problem.
But the chance to look back to Allium postings of the last years is like a book you can never pay for.
People have a interest in Alliums, but the problems also.
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I find that as with most plants, you have to find the right growing conditions for the sp and hybrids, and once this is done, mainly through trial and error, and also researching the conditions in which they grow in the wild, most alliums are fairly easy.
The problem people are having it seems, and also from talking to people at plant shows here in switzerland where I exhibit, is that their alliums decrease or loose in vigour with the years. I find that this is due to 2 main factors, 1 is dampness or wet during their summer dormancy period which can easilly make the bulbs rot, and secondly, the choice of hybrids or sp which degenerate with the years, producing small bulbs which then take several years to reach FS.
As some allium hybrids "replace" the bulb annually from within, leaving a slimey old withering bulb remains on the outside, this has to be removed, and the new bulb cleaned and dried to prevent rotting.
I tend nowadays to dig up most of my alliums and dry store them over summer after drying and cleaning annd I have very good survival rate this way.
I also test hybrids to see which degenerate less and even if the bulb devides, still produces 2 or more FS bulbs. I am currently doing an allium trial this year, various sp and hybrids, so i will post the results here in august when all bulbs have gone dormant :)
It is also true as some members have said that some garden centres sell poor quality bulbs or bulbs which are too small to flower, which is also a problem.
Pontus
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Wietse, thank you so much. The trip back home with alliums flowering in the bag was nice. The only difficulty was the slight smell of onion I felt. Now everything has been planted with many of them still flowering and A.meteoricum about to flower. So thanks again.
Pontus, to keep allium bulbs dry for summer was just the advice I receivEd from Wietse. What is the best way to keep them after digging up? Shall I cover them with dry send to prevent drying out? I am looking forward to reading your experiment results in August.
I still hav hope that somebody will ID the allium I showed on the previous page of this thread.
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Hello Oleg,
I store my bulbs in sawdust in big boxes (either cardboard, wooden boxes or plastic). I try and make sure no bulbs are directly touching each other to prevent rotting, and at least once every 2 weeks i moove the bulbs around a bit and try and aerate the mix, especially during very damp or warm weather.
my garden shed is quite shaded, so it stays at between 15 and 20°c..which seems ok...but if it gets too warm, i close the window blinds to try and cool down the temperature a bit
i read an article once in a swedish garden magazine that they used this method of storage in sweden as well with great success
Pontus
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Many thanks for your advice
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I've had so little time to participate here, frustrating, and there's so much to comment on, I hope to catch up. Wietse, never have I seen Allium membranaceum flowering so nicely, a lovely species; this and allied campanulatum I find to be difficult to keep going. The allium cross baisunense x trautvetteranum is groundbreaking, a very different look, fantastic! And Allium cross chloranthum x convallarioides is delightful, so many buds, one of the best things I've seen in Allium. Are these crosses happening on their own (self-sown) or as surprise hybrids when you're growing your many species from seed?
I intend on commenting on some earlier posts too, as time allows.
The reason for posting today, is that I saw an Allium on Facebook, a purchased plant, labeled as Allium roseum var. nanum, and invalid name, and the plant is misidentified. It is being sold by Pottertons Nursery under this name:
http://www.pottertons.co.uk/pott/view_product.php?pid=2194 (http://www.pottertons.co.uk/pott/view_product.php?pid=2194)
I recognized this plant as Turkish Allium tauricola, a species I grew from MacPhail & Watson seed back in the 1970s to early 1980s, it came as Allium sp., but I identified it as A. tauricola, distinct on account of the white edge to the pink to mauve petals. It's a small rock-garden-sized Allium of excellent behavior and habit. Here are two links that show Allium tauricola:
http://www.vanherbaryum.yyu.edu.tr/flora/famgenustur/li/al/ta/pages/Allium%20tauricola%20BOISS_jpg.htm (http://www.vanherbaryum.yyu.edu.tr/flora/famgenustur/li/al/ta/pages/Allium%20tauricola%20BOISS_jpg.htm)
http://rareplants.co.uk/product.asp?strParents=&CAT_ID=77&P_ID=200 (http://rareplants.co.uk/product.asp?strParents=&CAT_ID=77&P_ID=200)
Maybe I'll drop Potterton's a note about their misnomer.
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Maybe I'll drop Potterton's a note about their misnomer.
Rob Potterton is a Forumist, Mark - I've dropped him a line.
Even a really good nurseryman like Rob can have a mis-named plant - it is something that can happen to anyone
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Rob Potterton is a Forumist, Mark - I've dropped him a line.
Even better, faster action :-)
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Panayoti Kelaidis took this photo at RBG last week, the label says A. cyaneum... probably just a left over label from a deceased plant. What do you all think this lovely lavender pink one is?
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Are these crosses happening on their own (self-sown) or as surprise hybrids when you're growing your many species from seed?
thanks for all the positive comments!
most small-flowering alliums are surprise seedlings, we let them pollinate by the bees. Also in the large-flowered alliums are often surprises, but here we also make many conscious crossings, although this requires a lot of time and usually leads to nothing.
Because we are planting many species intentionally mixed, we get more and more exciting new hybrids.
Very often the plant, flower or bulb shows what the crossing parents were.
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Panayoti Kelaidis took this photo at RBG last week, the label says A. cyaneum... probably just a left over label from a deceased plant. What do you all think this lovely lavender pink one is?
It looks very much like allium nigrum "pink".
I also have some seedlings from allium lycoanicum that look much like it
photo: allium nigrum "Pink"
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Good suggestion, my first instinct was A. nigrum too, I grew a pink nigrum a number of years ago. However this plant has much more pointed tepals so it reminds me of another species, the true Allium cyrillii (not the ubiquitous imposters). This species has dark ovaries like nigrum, but again with those pointed tepals, has a more starry look to each bloom, thus a shaggy look to the umbel. If only I could see the flowers closer.
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Can anyone help ID this allium? The lable says "seed 2007 Allium insubricum". This was the only seedling so real A.insubricum didn't germinate. But I'm happy to have this one flowering for the first time. The pictures were taken at the beginning of flowering just before my trip to Holland. When I came back the flowers had already faded. No seed this year, unfortunately. And sorry again if I still have problems with rotating.
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10020.msg279678#msg279678 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10020.msg279678#msg279678)
Oleg, a beautiful red Allium, even when just in bud.
I know there are not many red Alliums, but I did recognize it (98.7% sure ;D), and when searching google on Allium cardiostemon, I found a couple images showing emerging flowers, looking similar to your plant. I've never grown this Turkish Allium, there are so many Turkish delights and Alliums to tempt the senses. I include a link to a scanned Van Herbaryum web site image, and as well; under the Fair Use Provision I'm posting a screen shot from the Taxonomic Allium Reference Collection at Gatersleben IPK, from one of the eight acquisition records at the 2nd link below.
http://www.vanherbaryum.yyu.edu.tr/flora/famgenustur/li/al/ca/pages/Allium%20cardiostemon%20FISCH_%20ET%20MEY_%20%20%20_jpg.htm (http://www.vanherbaryum.yyu.edu.tr/flora/famgenustur/li/al/ca/pages/Allium%20cardiostemon%20FISCH_%20ET%20MEY_%20%20%20_jpg.htm)
Allium cardiostemon at Gatersleben IPK:
http://pgrc-35.ipk-gatersleben.de/pls/htmldb_pgrc/f?p=265:3:947489780413001::NO::P3_SCIENTIFIC_NAME:232 (http://pgrc-35.ipk-gatersleben.de/pls/htmldb_pgrc/f?p=265:3:947489780413001::NO::P3_SCIENTIFIC_NAME:232)
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Mark, thank you for the ID. It was so much exciting! I haven't even dreamt of having this beauty. It is worth 6 years waiting.
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Rob Potterton is a Forumist, Mark - I've dropped him a line.
Even a really good nurseryman like Rob can have a mis-named plant - it is something that can happen to anyone
yes, anyone .......... look at the RBGE label in Mark's post http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10020.msg279854#msg279854 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10020.msg279854#msg279854) ::)
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Mark, thank you for the ID. It was so much exciting! I haven't even dreamt of having this beauty. It is worth 6 years waiting.
So satisfying when a long wait pays off with such a lovely plant. Congatulations, Oleg!
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oleg, mark, I was not thinking about allium cardiostemon because this (I thought) is more dark purple instead of red, but now I see the photo from Mark, and also my own photo, it seems they look alike
I have this allium for years but there is never a ofset. Also seed he gives a very little, but I do have some nice hybrids.
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Thank you, Maggi and Wietse. It is so nice to have a lot of bulb and plant experts here in the forum.
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My goodness Pottertons is quick, the previously misnamed Allium corrected to Allium tauricola, bravo! :)
http://www.pottertons.co.uk/pott/view_product.php?pid=2194 (http://www.pottertons.co.uk/pott/view_product.php?pid=2194)
At only £2.50 each, make a dash for it and order several plants, it's a rock garden gem.
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My goodness Pottertons is quick, the previously misnamed Allium corrected to Allium tauricola, bravo! :)
http://www.pottertons.co.uk/pott/view_product.php?pid=2194 (http://www.pottertons.co.uk/pott/view_product.php?pid=2194)
At only £2.50 each, make a dash for it and order several plants, it's a rock garden gem.
No surprise to me, Mark .... Rob and Jackie are "Good Guys" who take such things seriously - and you're right - I'm off to make an order!
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That's what comes of looking at a nursery list on a wet day - cue retail therapy at Potterton's!! !!
8)
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That's what comes of looking at a nursery list on a wet day - cue retail therapy at Potterton's!! !!
8)
Here's something else that I only learned from my visit to Potterton's website to make an order : they are now on Facebook- explains why we haven't seen much of Rob around here lately!
See - and "like" them here : https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pottertons-Nursery/130403187026232 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pottertons-Nursery/130403187026232)
8)
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This 30" tall allium is just beginning to bloom now. Flowers are about 1.25" dia. Leaves are still green on stem and clasp stem at bottom few inches
Grown from NARGS seed 2009-10 #4484 from china
Any Ideas on id?
Thank you
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Rimmer, I don't know what Allium this is, to even attempt going through the daunting Flora of China key on Allium, one needs information on bulb characteristics, foliage, spathe segments, and floral details such as inner/outer filaments shape and length.
In the photo I upload is another Allium sp. China ex Chen Yi (I think I got it from Aaron Floden), and twice I've gone through the keys, but cannot find anything that definitively matches... it's a narrow species up to 3', with some clasping narrow leaves, and these smallish heads of pleasant bloom.
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Mark,
I've still not ID'd that one with a name that I think fits comfortably either! I do have some Russian Allium to send you and seed of cuthbertii.
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Hi Aaron, seed of Russian allium and cuthbertii would be most welcome. I used to grow "striped garlic" (cuthbertii), eventually got crowded out and lost it, so a chance to redeem my skills with this one would be great, its a really attractive one with those pink-striped flowers.
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Rimmer, I seem to have the same Allium as yours. Unfortunately, without a name. It was given to me some years ago as a year old seedlings with the notice "something alliacea". It must have been collected in Russia which doesn't exclude Chinese species. I will try to investigate. The plant is slender, with flowerheads of not more than 3 cm looking a bit greyish to me which the picture doesn't show
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Some more alliums blooming now:
1,2 Allium wendelboanum (much smaller than I expected)
3 Alliun ramosum
4 Allium narcissiflorum
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Two more:
1. Allium validum
2. Allium gooddingii
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That's what comes of looking at a nursery list on a wet day - cue retail therapy at Potterton's!! !!
8)
....and the order is on its way! ;D ;D
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Rimmer, I seem to have the same Allium as yours. Unfortunately, without a name. It was given to me some years ago as a year old seedlings with the notice "something alliacea". It must have been collected in Russia which doesn't exclude Chinese species. I will try to investigate. The plant is slender, with flowerheads of not more than 3 cm looking a bit greyish to me which the picture doesn't show
Yes olegKon
My allium is grayish mauve.
The leaves are not hollow but a bit scaberous and curved but the stem is smooth
Rimmer
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Grown from seed, one of many Alliums collected in Kazakhstan in 2010 by Panayoti Kelaidis is currently blooming, labeled as Allium sp. Kalbinsky Hills, out of Ust Kamenogorst, Kazakhstan, accession #1. Off hand it looks like Allium lineare, but will give it a more detailed evaluation. The first photo showing whole plants was taken several days ago in the rain, the rest were taken today, we actually had a couple hours where it wasn't raining.
[attach=1]
[attach=2] [attach=3]
My wife has a new Canon EOS Rebel T3i 600D DSLR camera, and has been taking photos of garden plants, so the next two are her photos (never dreamed she would be taking photos of plants ;D), here again, you can see that the nectariferous flowers are attractive to ants and bees.
[attach=4] [attach=5]
Subsequent ID review by Vladimir Epiktetov on the Alliorum Facebook group, determined that my plants are Allium strictum, not the closely related Allium lineare. McMark 10/2015
Further note byMark McD : Alliums of the lineare/strictum type, are quite easy to move around at most any time, they wake up and go into root and winter-foliage growth in autumn.
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Very good photos from Mrs McD and her new camera - competition in the McMark household for the best......?!
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No competition really, the trick is to convince her which plants will be best to photograph. ;D
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thats a very nice allium Mark, I like plants from Afghanistan and Kazhakstan alot...its a shame many people dont know that those 2 countries have such fascinating and wonderfull plants!
joking aside to finish off...I thought your wife would have preferred to get the Canon Eos5D MARK! 3!!!..hehe
even though i am more of a nikon person i admit she was able to capture the allium very nicely with her canon!
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This 30" tall allium is just beginning to bloom now. Flowers are about 1.25" dia. Leaves are still green on stem and clasp stem at bottom few inches
Grown from NARGS seed 2009-10 #4484 from china
Any Ideas on id?
Thank you
Could it be allium macrostemon var uratense??
I also post a photo from my macrostemon.
(or maby the one Mark posted)?
http://www.nature-museum.net/album/ShowSpAlbum.aspx?spid=50154 (http://www.nature-museum.net/album/ShowSpAlbum.aspx?spid=50154)
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Could it be allium macrostemon var uratense??
I also post a photo from my macrostemon.
(or maby the one Mark posted)?
your picture show a similar allium but it appears pinker than mine.
Thank you
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Wietse, I started looking at A. macrostemon, not a species I'm very familiar with, and hard to find any photos of (particularly those that are fully floriferous without bulbils). I check Flora of China first, and curiously, it describes the stamen filaments as *shorter* than the tepals (makes no sense, given the species name which indicates long or big stamens), FOC reports the filaments as "1/2 as long as to slightly shorter than perianth segments"!? Scape height is given as 30--70 cm.
So I jump over to Flora of the USSR; it describes filaments are one forth as long again as the perianth segments, or 1.25x the tepals, or exserted moderately. Scape height is given as a range 40 - 90 cm. It also describes var. uratense Airy-Shaw 1931, for a rare form without bulbils in the inflorescence. Most current taxonomic references do not recognize var. uratense, although the Gatersleben IPK Taxonomic Allium Reference Collection does. In Fair Use Provision, here are two photos of Allium macrostemon var. uratense from IPK Gatersleben, from a collection from Mongolia.
[attach=1] [attach=3]
And here's an updated photo of my Allium sp. China, with two bloom heads tangled together, a closeup view to see the floral parts. At first I must have dismissed macrostemon because it's typically a bulbillerous thing, and var. uratense is not accepted in FOC, but there is indeed a resemblance, more obvious to me now when seeing the Gatersleben images. Good suggestion! I shall look at it again to see how close it matches.
[attach=2]
Rimmer, I wouldn't worry too much about flower color that much, from the descriptions, like many alliums, it can be found in a range of color shades, as we see two shades of pink above.
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back to the possible allium macrostemon var uratense
i took photos with a camera instead of the phone, but still far inferior to the photos by Mark's wife
the stems are 75cm tall , leaves are not hollow but curve around stem and retain the curve almost their entire length, sheathing the base of the stem, leaves are rough- scabrous, stem is smooth and deep green color
very similar to Wietse's picture in all but flower color.
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This small early blue onion came as Allium sikkimense
flowers hang from an umbel
is this identified correctly?
Thank you
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Any idea on this vigorous small grass like allium with tiny buds forming on the end of the stems which are separate from the leaves
Thanks
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Any idea on this vigorous small grass like allium with tiny buds forming on the end of the stems which are separate from the leaves
Thanks
At this moment it could be about 50 different alliums, but when we wait till it is flowering it is more easy to make a choice......
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This small early blue onion came as Allium sikkimense
flowers hang from an umbel
is this identified correctly?
Thank you
It can be sikkimense, but as I have two other new blue Alliums , which I just do not know at the time what is what , I'm going to wait until they all in bloom before I dare to say which is which.
I thought there were three small blue Alliums looking something similar.
(cyaneum, beesianum and Sikkimense)( I grow them all 3), but it seems like there are more .....
Once they are blooming well, I post a photo.
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I have a few Alliums which are a bit unclear.
In blue there is sikkimense, first blooms (to me), then there is forrestii ?? which then blooms and then come cyaneum and beesianum.
From SRGC seed distribution I got seed (spring 2012); number 142 = beesianum and number 163 =forrestii.
is this correct? (See photos) beesianum and cyaneum (from my own collection), are not flowering in the fist 2 weeks from now here.
Also attached my sikkimense (photo).
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Then there is seed 132 from 2011/2012 SRGC allium aciphyllum, flowering now with a very beautyful color.
It is a smal plant about20 centimeters high.
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SRGC seed 155 2011/2012 had to be cyaneum but is Cyathophorum var farreri
SRGC seed 204 2011/2012 had to be sikkimense also cyathophorum.....
al the other seeds are NOT cyathophorum, but from a lot of them I don't know what it is, also some surprises!!!
Is there someone who can tell me the difference between allium altaicum, ascalonicum and fistulosum, because they al look like fistulosum a lot.......
And some photos of our fields today. Harvest is started, and at last summer arrived here yesterday.....
In the last photo you can see the beauty of allium karataviense in seed-balls long after flowering is over!
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I have a few Alliums which are a bit unclear.
In blue there is sikkimense, first blooms (to me), then there is forrestii ?? which then blooms and then come cyaneum and beesianum.
From SRCG seed distribution I got seed (spring 2012); number 142 = beesianum and number 163 =forrestii.
is this correct? (See photos) beesianum and cyaneum (from my own collection), are not flowering in the fist 2 weeks from now here.
Also attached my sikkimense (photo).
Wow!
Wietse, you have great germination rates from these SRGC Seed Ex seed lots- and so many plants too. i tried all these seeds and 1 have 1 to 5 tiny plants to show and they seem to disappear forever in the hot summer here. Do you plant your seed directly outside in late January- February when the seed arrives or do you wait until spring or summer to start? or start inside in warm?
per Mark's website
http://www.plantbuzz.com/allium/gallery/blue/blue_gallery1.htm (http://www.plantbuzz.com/allium/gallery/blue/blue_gallery1.htm)
http://www.plantbuzz.com/allium/gallery/summer/im_Allium_beesianum.htm (http://www.plantbuzz.com/allium/gallery/summer/im_Allium_beesianum.htm)
beesianum blooms in late summer and has long tepals and the stamens are not exserted or do not extend beyond the tepals.
I love all your alliums
Rimmer
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Mark,
The last time I tried keying that species from Chen Yi I got to macrostemum, but felt that must be wrong because of the bulbiliferous nature of that species. Now the www has much better selection of images and I think that if we and others have come to that species independently of one another it must be correct!! Mine did not flower this year, but did put up a lot of leaves.
Aaron
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Wow!
Wietse, you have great germination rates from these SRGC Seed Ex seed lots- and so many plants too. i tried all these seeds and 1 have 1 to 5 tiny plants to show and they seem to disappear forever in the hot summer here. Do you plant your seed directly outside in late January- February when the seed arrives or do you wait until spring or summer to start? or start inside in warm?
Rimmer
I am always sowing seeds of all my allium early November outside in the "garden". seeds of SRGC arrive in February and if the ground is not frozen I sow them directly in the garden. otherwise they go first in the cooling at 5 degrees until they can be sown outside.
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Weitse, I think the allium from SRGC seed as forrestii is a very nice form of A. beesianum. As far as I know, A. forrestii does not occur in blue, also it has a different look and shape to the flowers. See the link in Flora of China, there are some photo links there, the 1st photo and 4th photo by Susan Kelley look incorrectly identified, however look at photos #2, 3, & 5.
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200027479 (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200027479)
A good page on Allium forrestii:
http://frps.eflora.cn/frps/Allium%20forrestii (http://frps.eflora.cn/frps/Allium%20forrestii)
Also, can you show us the leaves and whole plant on A. aciphyllum. I've never found plants in cultivation to be the correct species; here's a link that shows it (3 photos, each can be clicked).
http://frps.eflora.cn/frps/Allium%20aciphyllum (http://frps.eflora.cn/frps/Allium%20aciphyllum)
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Aaron, on this eFlora.cn site, lots of good information and hard-to-find photos, here's a gallery of images on A. macrostemon, again, reinforcing the identification:
http://frps.eflora.cn/frps/Allium%20macrostemon (http://frps.eflora.cn/frps/Allium%20macrostemon)
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some photos of allium "aciphyllum" flower and plant
allium sivasicum
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Weitse, I'm thrilled to see Allium sivasicum, they look like they're thriving for you, such a deep maroon color with a glaucous "bloom" on the outside of the flowers, congratulations! I grew this from the MacPhail and Watson expedition to Turkey back in the late 1970s, mine were a softer maroon color (although it is reported flower color can range to yellow, greenish yellow, or white, tinged or overlaid with pink, brown, or purple.
I'm not sure about the Allium aciphyllum identification. It's near impossible to find an accurately ID'd photo on the internet, I hope that the Chinese plant photo link I gave in the message above (from eflora.cn) shows what this species should look like. The leaves are described a 1 mm wide, the leaves on your plant look wider than that. It's a very interesting bloom, but I'm wondering what it might actually be.
In the Fair Use Provision, here are two view from the aforementioned Chinese web site showing Allium aciphyllum.
[attach=1] [attach=2]
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Some new beautys from today (yesterday)
also as promised allium scabriscapum, and one of the macrostemon flowers has bulbils..........
allium myrianthum
allium balansae
allium scabriscapum
allium luteolum
allium macrostemon
allium parnassicum
allium kunthianum
allium hirtovaginum
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and the last 3 flowers...
+ harvesting today and yesterday al specialitys with a few bulbs each.
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This picture was pilfered from the Eurosport website - it's a nice litte joke - sky and flowers - showing the blue sky and allium blooms - oh yes, and the Sky cycling team in le Tour de France.... ;)
[attachimg=1]
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Wietse, a fantastic new type of Dutch still life pictures. I mean the one with your specialities of a few bulbs. Good luck with propagating them.
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You are a marvelous beholder, Maggi. A genius of looking for gorgeous pictures ;D
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I have a question about Allium caeruleum:
I bought the cheap bulbs in a garden center in the last two seasons, but saw nothing than a few leaves - no flowers from 40 bulbs. As they were very cheap I thought, they are easy to grow - obviously not for me. Can anybody help with instructions?
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I've not been able to frequent the forum much this year and for the first time for a couple of months had a look at this thread!! Some amazing pictures, thanks everyone for making my day!! A few pictures from my garden this year. First, first flowering of Allium brevistylum (from Wyoming via the Reykjavik Botanical Garden) :)
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Allium victorialis showing very different inflorescences/scapes - from left to right - Naturalised form from the Lofoten Islands, Norway; ssp platyphyllum (from a trader in Japan); received as Allium ochotense (from Tromsų Botanical Garden; unknown source)
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Nice to see you around again Stephen - I didn't think you could have been eating the whole time....... ;)
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I'm not sure about the Allium aciphyllum identification. It's near impossible to find an accurately ID'd photo on the internet, I hope that the Chinese plant photo link I gave in the message above (from eflora.cn) shows what this species should look like. The leaves are described a 1 mm wide, the leaves on your plant look wider than that. It's a very interesting bloom, but I'm wondering what it might actually be.
Mark, as I see the photo's and other information about allium aciphyllum, I am sure mine is not a. aciphyllum.
It looks a bit like allium cernuum.....
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Allium atrosanguineum put on its best display yet this spring. It is a very early flowerer, end of April this year with the earth still frozen 5-10 cm down! However, all the flowers aborted again...
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On 27th April I had a photoshoot of many of my onions....
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Allium stenodon flowered and set seed for the first time last year. This spring I noticed that it had spread laterally by 3-4cm or so. Investigating I found a long horizontal rhizome (see picture)!
Allium wallichii also spreads like this, up to half a metre in my garden! I have a reference to these rhizomes being dug and eaten in the Himalayas.
This feature is not mentioned for either of these species in Flora of China which I find strange...
Are there other Alliums that spread like this...
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Allium atrosanguineum put on its best display yet this spring. It is a very early flowerer, end of April this year with the earth still frozen 5-10 cm down! However, all the flowers aborted again...
WOW!!! you have allium atrosanguineum, One I am looking for years......
Is there any possibility I can buy some bulbs / plants or some seeds from you of this beauty?
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Allium ovalifolium (Chen Yi S-189) is begining to bloom today
unfortunately mine doe not have the white stripes on the leave that i had ordered.
does anyone have a spare to share with white striped leaves ?
Thanks
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Sadly there is no seed as the flowers aborted for the second year running and it also doesn't multiply fast - I'll have to check if it's possible to divide tonight. But, it probably won't be more than one bulb....I'm sure you have something interesting in return :)
Will send you a PM later...
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I have a question about Allium caeruleum:
I bought the cheap bulbs in a garden center in the last two seasons, but saw nothing than a few leaves - no flowers from 40 bulbs. As they were very cheap I thought, they are easy to grow - obviously not for me. Can anybody help with instructions?
Allium caeruleum is very easy . it can take quite wet ground, but also fine in fairly dry soil. sand or clay is not a problem.
flowering period in the Netherlands is now with me and they flower very nice this year.
No idea what could be wrong with you bulbs ?!
I will try to post a photo this weekend.
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some photos from today
allium caeruleum
allium cupanii
allium gypsaceum
allium plummerae
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Nice pictures, Wietse! Your Allium cupanii is flowering happily here now.
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Nice pictures, Wietse! Your Allium cupanii is flowering happily here now.
Hello,
Nice to hear! It starts flowering after almost all leaves are died.
Today I received one bulb of allium chrysantherum from a good friend ....
I'm already curious about next spring!
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Bulbs lifting as it happens nowadays ...........
and as it was done "in the past", with us still going the same way with al small stocks of tulips and allium......
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I got this as Allium cyaneum from AGS seed. From reading postings here I'm assuming it's actually A. sikkimense?
I'm not hugely disappointed - actually to be frank I was quite pleased it was a small blue allium rather than some noxious weed.
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Allium ampeloprasum var. babingtonii, a British native.
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Great pictures everyone!
Here's a few Alliums at Wisley gardens taken on 28th June
Edit : names added to allow search engine to find the photos.Names in the file names
Allium dichlamydeum P6281862
Allium dichlamydeum P6281865
Allium umbilicatum P6281894
Allium umbilicatum P6281895
Allium acuminatum P6281854
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Second batch
The first two are clearly wrongly labelled, the second being, no surprises, Allium cyathophorum farreri (the great impostor) which I saw elsewhere wrongly identified.
Allium beesianum no P6281777
Allium caesium P6281760
Allium cristophii P6281690
Allium gomphrenoides P6281851
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...and the last few..
Don't know what the first two are...anyone?
Is unifolium correct?
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Allium ovalifolium as once offered by Chen Yi as S-189 (but no white striped leaves).
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So many alliums posted, I'll have to catch up and comment on some previous messages.
Stephen, wonderful seeing A. umbilicatum and gomphrenoides, they look correct. I tried getting gomphenoides a number of times but you know the story with Alliums, so many are misnamed. I like the shuttlecock shape to the bloom heads on gomphrenoides. LOL on "beesianum" and "caesium" ;D
Rimmer, very cool A. ovalifolium, I have studied your photos with considerable interest. My Allium listera looks rather similar; it came as an Allium sp collected by Darrell Probst in China, I will show photos of 2 clones. What separates Allium ovalifolium and A. listera, is that A. listera is supposed to have more pronounced petioles to the leaf bases, versus being just a pronounced narrowing, and the base of the leaves in listera have lobes that exceed the petiole connection (slightly cordate). Most important, in Allium listera, the outer perianth segments are much narrower than inner ones, but in ovalifolium the inner and outer segments are more or less equal. Otherwise, they are very similar. The form of ovalifolium with white veins is recognized as var. leuconeurum.
Most photos I've seen of Allium ovalifolium tend to have more open heads with fewer florets, but I'm not sure if that's diagnostic. My Allium listera plants have that same lovely pink color to the pedicels, giving the flower heads a heart of pink, which is charming, your ovalifolium has that coloration. I also notice the translucent golden color on one of the flower buds in your photo, my listera have that same look. I do wonder if these two "species" are really just one and the botanists have split them based on some fairly subtle and variable characteristics.
Do yours set seed? Mine do, but in all the years I've sown them in an attempt to increase my stock, only had 1 seed germinate, which didn't grown one past the first year, not sure why it's so dang difficult to germinate. Got seed 2 years ago of Allium ovalifolium from Lori Skukski, they germinated well and are surviving, looking forward to comparing them.
Here are a bunch of views of the smaller of the two clones of A. listera. The much larger clone is still in bud, justing starting to open now, always flowers a couple weeks later on taller stems and bigger bloom heads.
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...and the last few..
Don't know what the first two are...anyone?
Is unifolium correct?
allium unifolium looks correct and the first two look like allium amplectens. Do they have small red bulbs about size 4 - 6 ?
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Stephen, I agree with Wietse, the first two photos looks like Allium amplectans, in fact, looks just like a form I have spreading around in the garden here.
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Weitse, I must say that you're showing us some remarkable Alliums, so many rare ones, I do hope you'll work your magic in your onion fields to increase their stock and make them more available in cultivation, so many rarities that one rarely even sees photos of, such as hirtovaginum, balansae, luteolum and others.
Did you acquire A. gypsaceum from Janis Ruksans? It's a spectacular little allium, what a color! And good luck with your newly acquired A. chrysantherum, another rare one.
Pauli, I have had similar experience with Allium caeruleum from purchased bulbs, mostly grassy leaves and few flowers, and if a bulb does produce flowers, the next year it will only produce leaves. Perhaps the form in cultivation and mass produced for many decades, is not the best or free-flowering form of the species.
Maggi, I'm suspicious of your racing-onion photo, those racer's look like they've been cloned, the photo most likely produced with the new Allium Composer app for the Android ;D
Oleg, the seed you generously sent me of Allium pseudoflavum 3 years ago, has produced some flowering size bulbs this year. It really is a subtle beauty, I'm so glad to finally have this one. Photos from last week.
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Mark, thanks for the appreciation of all the pictures I post.
I have no intention to brag about my collection, but it's always nice that there are people who like it too.
How are the seeds that I sent last year and is the catalog of our company also arrived last year?
Many alliums we really only have 1 or 2 Bulbs and there are many species that just do not want to grow, whatever I try!
so also allium ovalifolium, that does not want to grow here
2 years ago I got Allium canadense, see attached pictures. Is this Allium canadense?, It gives only bulbs instead of flowers.
allium gypsaceum came from Janis Ruksans, but even now I have bought some more bulbs, I still dont get seeds from this beauty :'( :'(
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some more beautys flowering today:
allium brevicaule
allium brevicaule "Dark"
allium kakacae
allium macranthum "White" (found 2 years ago)
allium pseudoampeloprasum
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and the last from today:
allium pseudoflavum ( yes I have that one to, only one plant :'(, but it looks like it will multiply)
allium regelianum
allium sanbornii conqdonii
allium staticiforme
allium tuncelianum
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Hello Wietse,
You post so many wonderful alliums. I believe I posted a photo of Allium tuncelianum and macranthum germinating well from your seed, hopefully my memory serves me well, which it doesn't always do. Asking me about the catalog you sent me, I'm embarrassed to admit that yes indeed, I did receive it, but realization that I probably did not acknowledge it, I apologize for that. It arrived during my previous job that I had for almost 2 years, and it was a horrible and ridiculously demanding job... a job that followed my 17 months of devastating unemployment, I worked most weekends and many evenings, and I fell terribly behind in everything, including all correspondence, and my Allium garden garden, which basically went without proper weeding for 2 years while I was stuck in this terrible job. My garden suffered, and I've lost parts of the garden to aggressive weeds, and lost many alliums which can't compete with big weeds, which has been rather depressing. I'm now in a much better job (although, it is very demanding as well). Your catalog is splendid, and I really appreciate receiving it.
Back to plants, another rarity that one almost never sees is Allium brevicaule, and my goodness you've done so well with it. Your portrait photo of Allium pseudoflavum looks great, lots more florets than in my first-flowering 3-year plants. The pure white macranthum is beautiful, as is staticiforme. Did the white macranthum show up in your nursery beds? It's a winner! Never seen pseudoampeloprasum before, very densely budded, I assume it's a tall plant. Please show us Allium regelianum again when the flowers open, there are almost no photos of this species on the internet.
As to Allium canadense, there are many forms, but the typical A. canadense var. canadense is one to avoid, the flowers mostly or entirely replaced by bulbils, and it can be invasive. The floriferous forms are much better. I have never met a totally bulbiliferous form, I had a couple forms that were mostly bulbiliferous with red bulbils and white florets, which I kind of liked, but have since lost them. I also grew for a number of years an undescribed totally floriferous form of the straight species found by Thad Howard in Texas among myriad typically bulbiliferous canadense, that had a big showy head of white flowers, sadly I think I have now lost this. He had proposed publishing it as "f. florosum", but not sure he ever published it in the waning years of his life.
As to the highly desirable Allium karacae from Turkey, I'm afraid what you show is not correctly identified. This is a species with whitish to violet-blue flowers, I have been looking for this one for a while once I learned of its existence. Here are some links:
Allium karacae, in Cytotaxonomic studies on four Allium L. (Alliaceae) species endemic to Turkey, 2002, link to the "Abstract", there is a link to the full text (A. goekyigitii, vuralii, scabriscapum, and karacae):
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00087114.2002.10589274#preview (http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00087114.2002.10589274#preview)
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00087114.2002.10589274 (http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00087114.2002.10589274)
Allium karacae: "It has no close relatives, and is very distinct for its dense umbel, violet-blue flowers, simple filaments and reticulate-fibrous tunics"
http://rareplants.co.uk/product.asp?strParents=&CAT_ID=138&P_ID=2589 (http://rareplants.co.uk/product.asp?strParents=&CAT_ID=138&P_ID=2589)
RarePlants has the best image of a flower head:
http://rareplants.co.uk/uploads/images_versions_large/3451.jpg (http://rareplants.co.uk/uploads/images_versions_large/3451.jpg)
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Dear Wietse,
How may we buy Allium from you?
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Dear Wietse,
How may we buy Allium from you?
Maggi,
Of course we sell no bulbs (not yet) of many special Alliums we show on the forum, but from a slightly more familiar assortiment we do offer bulbs.
Our offer is listed on our website, see link below.
http://www.wmel.nl/?pagina=5&aanbod=B
For bulbs that we are selling, different than to export or mail order, we require a minimum order of 50 euros, sendcosts for buyer and payment in advance.
Our prices are ofcourse (much) lower than the prices of mail order companies / bulbshops, so the prices are not on our website. I can send a personal e-mail with an Excel file with prices if you would like?
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Yes, please!
maggi AT bulblog.co.uk
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the mid season/mid summer alliums are i full bloom here...
allium gypsaceum has just finished flowering, while allium guttatum dalmaticum and guttatum sarduoum are in full bloom
Pontus
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On a completely different note:
Does someone know a good source for the real Allium ampeloprasum 'Pearl-Onion Group'? My parents grow it for decades already (from stock which my grandparents grew for more decades before) but the stock is somewhat degrading, so I'd be interested in some fresh blood.
Sources from within the EU (or other origins not in need of all the 'phyto' red tape) only, please!
Thanks a lot!
Thomas.
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On a completely different note:
Does someone know a good source for the real Allium ampeloprasum 'Pearl-Onion Group'? My parents grow it for decades already (from stock which my grandparents grew for more decades before) but the stock is somewhat degrading, so I'd be interested in some fresh blood.
Sources from within the EU (or other origins not in need of all the 'phyto' red tape) only, please!
Thanks a lot!
Thomas.
I dont know this special allium ampeloprasum type and I have a lot of different types of ampeloprasum......
I think the best way to make a better stock is to find a flowering plant and start over from seed, trying to find a new/fresh good growing plant and use this for a new stock
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Some beauty's flowering today....
allium pallens
allium paniculatum var minor
allium regelianum
allium scabriflorum
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and some more
allium beesianum
allium cyaneum
allium ericetorum
allium hookeri
allium oleraceum
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and just some photo's from bulb- and seedstorage
and a view of our allium"plants" field
allium amethystinum
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and some more
allium beesianum
allium cyaneum
allium ericetorum
allium hookeri
allium oleraceum
Wietse
These are very nice
I am amazed your A amethystinum is blooming now
Mine bloomed over a month ago and now I am harvesting seeds
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Weiste Do you sell your dried allium seed heads? They are great for dried flower arrangements. Florists would fight for those flower heads. They look nice layed out in your seed storage boxes.
cheers
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Weiste Do you sell your dried allium seed heads? They are great for dried flower arrangements. Florists would fight for those flower heads. They look nice layed out in your seed storage boxes.
cheers
We do sell one allium as seedhead, it is a special selected one with very "closed" seedheads
we registered this allium as "Green Craze"
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Weitse, you always show us so much, much to comment on, thank you for sharing this information.
I'm always surprised by how certain plants flower about the same time and seem synchronized, even though on different continent; I have A. ericetorm and oleraceum looking just like yours.
Thanks for following up and showing red Allium regelianum, a lovely drumstick type, so happy to see it. Your photo is one of the very few on the intranet! And A. scabriflorum, I'm encouraged seeing such bountiful flowering, I do hope that this blue one becomes available more widely some day, would make an excellent companion to the red rotundum and sphaerocephalum drumstick types. You could eventually flood the USA market with a special Allium collection, red Allium sphaerocephalon, white Allium guttatum ssp. sardoum, and blue Allium scabriflorum, it would sell like hot cakes (pancakes) here in the US with the red, white, and blue theme. Just an idea.
Also wonderful to see Allium pallens, would like to see a closeup. This species is very close to A. paniculatum, your plants look compact and floriferous, most attractive. Regarding the pink-flowered plant labeled as Allium paniculatum var. minor, I find no such name combination, and while the photo is a bit far away from the subject, to me it looks like a dwarf pink form of Allium carinatum ssp. pulchellum (there are dwarf forms from Turkey, but their species assignment is disputed). If you could post a close-up of that one too, it would be great.
What Allium species is 'Green Craze' seed pods from? I assume these are being sold as cut "flowers" or cut "seed heads" in this case, for their undisputed ornamental value, rather amusing, I can see how the cut flower trade would be interested.
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Mark,
It would indeed be a nice combination in red, white and blue!
The biggest problem is I think are the very small bulbs of scabriflorum and guttatum. Also, I have not really found a good storage method for scabriflorum. They are now drying out too much in dry storage, so I leave them in the ground.
As you asked I post a closup of allium Allium paniculatum minor and allium pallens.
Allium Green Craze is a selection of allium backhousianum.
2 other Alliums flowering now:
Allium paniculatum ssp paniculatum
allium parciflorum
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I dont know this special allium ampeloprasum type and I have a lot of different types of ampeloprasum......
I think the best way to make a better stock is to find a flowering plant and start over from seed, trying to find a new/fresh good growing plant and use this for a new stock
I have grown pearl onions and sand leeks and some other cultivars of Allium ampeloprasum, but most are not very hardy here, the hardiest being Allium ampeloprasum babingtonii and Allium ampeloprasum "Oerprei" (Belgian)
I was able to source a number of Pearl Onions from Gatersleben last year, but sadly none survived the winter. I will try again next year with better protection...
These are the accessions I obtained, all German where Perlzwiebel are still. I think, cultivated commercially ( I know nothing more than this about these accessions)
Allium ampeloprasum ssp ampeloprasum
ALL575 (German) Pearl Onion Group
Allium ampeloprasum ssp ampeloprasum
ALL571 (German) Pearl Onion Group
Allium ampeloprasum ssp ampeloprasum
ALL557 (German) Pearl Onion Group
Allium ampeloprasum ssp ampeloprasum
ALL564 (East German/DDR) Pearl Onion Group
Allium ampeloprasum ssp ampeloprasum
ALL576 (German) Pearl Onion Group
Allium ampeloprasum ssp ampeloprasum
ALL551 (German) Pearl Onion Group
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A couple of pictures showing various Allium ampeloprasum cultivars including Pearl Onions when I had success a few years ago
1) Elephant Garlic, Pearl Onions and Belgian Oerprei
2) Sand Leek, Babington's Leek and Oerprei
3) Pearl Onions
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Weiste, Green Craze love it..thoses heads are very full and tight.
cheers
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A few alliums that we are now selling at the auction .....
allium ampeloprasum "Hairy Friend"
allium ampeloprasum "Pink Lady"
allium ampeloprasum "Purple Mystery"
allium ampeloprasum babingtonii "Green Drops"
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Wow! Have you selected these yourselves?
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Wow! Have you selected these yourselves?
We are already working on selecting ampeloprasum types approximately 15 years.
the beginning came from seed that we had collected then in Greece.
This year we had a completely white and some very pretty pink types between seedlings.
I post a picture of our field ampeloprasum we now cut for auction. Allium Purple Mystery is right and in the middle Hairy Friend.
The other picture is the now flowering allium texanum
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A couple of pictures showing various Allium ampeloprasum cultivars including Pearl Onions when I had success a few years ago
1) Elephant Garlic, Pearl Onions and Belgian Oerprei
2) Sand Leek, Babington's Leek and Oerprei
3) Pearl Onions
Sand Leek makes very nice bulbs as I see in your photo,
do you have a photo of it in flower?
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Weiste, I grow this garlic ampeloprasum it has 2 Very big cloves and the stem curls a little the flowers are mauve but you have selected some very nice forms, love green drops.. Never knew there were so many subspecies, will have to look out for seed
Cheers
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Allium ameloprasum var. ameloprasum with Crocosmia paniculata
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Wietse: No, as I remember Sand Leek survived one winter didn't flower and died the next. I can make inquiries if you are interested in a sample?
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I posted some other pictures of ampeloprasum in the following link last year, including a nice form at Knightshayes Court in Devon and the US naturalised Yorktown Onion http://www.yorkcounty.gov/Portals/ychc/onions.jpg (http://www.yorkcounty.gov/Portals/ychc/onions.jpg)
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=8300.msg224776#msg224776 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=8300.msg224776#msg224776)
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I got this one as Allium cernuum (from Oregon). Am I right that it is rather A. stellatum or a hybrid?
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I think I posted this one last year and Mark suggested it was a stellatum-cernuum hybrid?
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Allium stenodon
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Allium douglasii has bulbillifericated with two large bulbils...
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...and Allium wallichii checking if it's safe to come out :)
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...and Allium wallichii checking if it's safe to come out :)
Can you blame it? It must know there's a guy nearby who is eating his way through the world's 15,000+ edible species......... :o ;D
Super selection of onions, even making me a bit hungry......
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Weitse, catching up here, your bright pink Allium paniculatum "var. minor" looks like one of the dwarf forms of Allium carinatum var. pulchellum. There isn't a published "var. minor" for paniculatum, although this group is certainly difficult with so many closely allied species. Whatever its true name, it's a bright and perky looking onion.
Your A. ampeloprasum selections are terrific, I particularly like the "fun" ones, 'Hairy Friend' and 'Green Drops'.
Stephen, the allium from Oregon, are you saying it's an Allium collected and native to Oregon, or from a gardener in Oregon. Allium stellatum doesn't get as far west as Oregon, although there are discrepancies in the Flora of North America distribution map and the USDA (remember on the USDA maps, if a species just crosses into a State, the entire state gets colored in their maps).
USDA:
http://plants.usda.gov/core/profile?symbol=ALST (http://plants.usda.gov/core/profile?symbol=ALST)
FNA:
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=8565&flora_id=1 (http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=8565&flora_id=1)
Both maps are flawed; as State floras record this species as occuring in many more Eastern States than either map shows, and I have a microfiche (microfilm archive documents) printout from one of Marion Ownbey's student, a thesis study on some North American Allium alliances, and A. stellatum goes much further east than generally recorded.
The plant you show is really attractive, with those rounded almost hood-like outer tepals, and erect nearly-closed inner tepals. There are forms of Allium cernuum that show more stronger than other forms, the divergence between the outer and inner tepals. Allium cernuum that I collected among a cobblestone beach at Deception Pass, Whidbey Island, Washington, just above Pacific Ocean high tide, an unlikely spot to be sure, but the allium grew in great numbers, was a smallish form with the three outer tepals flaring outwards, and the three inner ones in the rounded cup shape. At first glance your Oregon plant looks like a stellatum x cernuum hybrid, but if it was collected wild, then it must be a form of cernuum.
Love the shy A. wallichii photo (and beautiful blue stenoden too), I can germinate wallichii (sometimes), but after planting them out, they never make it past the first year, I think I'm giving them spots that are too dry.
And here's a recent couple of interesting alliums, salvaged out of my 2-1/2 yr neglected Allium garden, salvage operation are scheduled for the autumn. A few years back I started getting some hybrids with Allium cernuum (late flowered forms) and Allium stellatum, crossing with pulchellum. The hybrids inherit the deep pink or reddish coloration of the pedicels, and floret size is very small. Here are a couple:
Putative Allium cernuum x pulchellum hybrid, intensely colored pedicels, tiny rounded deep-color florets, very slender to 14" tall, tiny bloom head only a little over an inch across (about 3 cm). Four photos, views of the flowers in bright overcast day, then also in full sun, plus a view of the bulbs.
[attach=1] [attach=2]
[attach=3] [attach=4]
[attach=5]
Next I'll show a variation on a theme, what I suspect is A. stellatum x pulchellum
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Following up to my last post, this is a variation on a theme, a taller one, 16-18", which I would assign as A. stellatum x pulchellum (or possibly an Allium (stellatum x cernuum) x pulchellum cross) with starry flowers, and sideways deposed flower head similar to stellatum, and again, deep color pedicels.
[attach=1] [attach=2]
[attach=3] [attach=4]
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Two interesting Alliums,
First is Allium pyrenaicum of which i took a picture in its habitat in the Spanish Pyrenees last month.
It is a rare and endangered species found on the 'Red List'.
The second is a curious Allium which is in bloom at the moment, probably closely related to A. cupani.
I have found it in Eastern Crete and so far haven't found any description of it.
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Two interesting Alliums,
First is Allium pyrenaicum of which i took a picture in its habitat in the Spanish Pyrenees last month.
It is a rare and endangered species found on the 'Red List'.
The second is a curious Allium which is in bloom at the moment, probably closely related to A. cupani.
I have found it in Eastern Crete and so far haven't found any description of it.
both very nice Alliums !
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Oron, looking at the one from Crete it looks as if it does something similar to Allium callimischon? ie dies back and the flowers come from the "dead" stalks? How tall is it?
as a general query to Allium growers, when is the best time to repot Allium callimischon haemostictum? I did mine the other day and didn't realise how fragile the connection between the flowering stalk and the bulb is and as a result lost at least one.
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as a general query to Allium growers, when is the best time to repot Allium callimischon haemostictum? I did mine the other day and didn't realise how fragile the connection between the flowering stalk and the bulb is and as a result lost at least one.
when allium callimischon blooms, the bulb is mature.
The flower and stem have no function anymore, only for seed production.
In the coming period, the bulb will make new leafs.
So now is a good time to repot, but you can also do in in september or oktober
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hi, I didn't make myself clear, I broke the to stems which have the flower buds for this year.
So I'm asking what is the best time to repot so that I don't lose the flowers due in autumn?
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Oron, looking at the one from Crete it looks as if it does something similar to Allium callimischon? ie dies back and the flowers come from the "dead" stalks? How tall is it?
Mark,
Few species behave in this way in the Mediterranean, all flowering in late summer and early Autumn.
The species shown is 8-20cm with tiny, slender, tubular flowers.
I grow both subsp. of A. callimischon, they look completely different and flower about 3 months later [October].
As for your question, you can repot your callimischon at any time but best time would be during summer when bulb is dormant.
It will not effect the buds as they receive nutrients from the bulb which is rootless at that time.
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Oron, thanks for showing true Allium pyrenaicum, attractive and distinctive looking species. Your Cretan onion, does look like it's in the "cupanii alliance", of which there are dozens of species, but for most of them its impossible to find any photos to help with ID. Charming little allium, love the shiny red color to the inside of the flared mouth of the florets.
My wife Sukey, has been very busy aiming her new DSLR camera at my Allium garden, photographing various insect pollinators, here's her latest one of a yellow butterfly on Allium senescens.
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thanks Oron!
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This nice pink allium 10" tall August blooming came as A togashii in the NARGS? 2009-10 seed ex no. 149
I can find no reference for this plant. Any ideas?
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This should help: http://e-monocot.org/taxon/urn:kew.org:wcs:taxon:296802 (http://e-monocot.org/taxon/urn:kew.org:wcs:taxon:296802)
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Rimmer, also be aware of some confusion on the species epithet, togasii versus togashii. In Ohwi's Flora of Japan published in 1953, he lists the species as Allium togasii, although the actual published name by Hara (also 1953) is A. togashii. Both "togasii" & "togashii" are valid species epithets for various plants. Ohwi's listing in Flora of Japan is probably a typo. I see from IPNI.org that Ohwi published another plant with his spelling, Potentilla togasii Ohwi in 1959.
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Thanks Mark
i saw you have pictures of a similar plant on the PBS Wiki; however mine is taller :'(
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In Flora of Japan, height is given as 10-25 cm, and flowering time of July. I grew two forms, the smaller one 4"-6" (10 - 15 cm) flowered in August, then I had a taller form (to 16", 40 cm) that flowered in September. I started getting seedlings that were averaging 8-10". Years ago I lost the taller late-flowering form, and there might be a bulb or two left of the smaller form in my terribly neglected beds overtaken with weeds and tall field grass. I distributed seed of this species for a number of years, so its frequently seen in the seedexs.
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some beauty's flowering now...
allium suaveolens
allium glandulosum
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Two late blooming beauties there Wietse. Must go out in the garden to see if I can find Allium suaveolens, I had it sent to me, collected from the type location. This species is typically usurped by imposter A. senescens in cultivation, so it's nice to see the correct plant.
I am sad to have lost Allium glandulosum, from plants collected in San Luis Potosii in central Mexico by Thad Howard, they had been hardy outside for about 10 years, but perished in a year of terrible drought (can't remember if it was 2010 or 2011). I had a second form of it from Kew, that spread a bit more (from stolons) which I was thankful for at the time; but as this is a moist growing species, lost that form too due to drought.
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A friend sent me this image of Allium allegheniense Collected in the wild in Virginia.
"Its now lumped into A. cernuum, but is quite different from the Ohio forms of A. cernuum. It is extremely beautiful with many more flowers per inflorescence than A. cernuum."
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Allium "allegheniense" has long been considered a synonym of Allium cernuum. Allium cernuum grows throughout much of North America, from east coast to west coast, from Canada to Mexico, from high mountains, lower woodlands and prairies, to cobble stone beaches in Washington State, it is extremely variable. I have collected forms of Allium cernuum from a number of States, and acquired forms from collected sources in other States, it's amazing just how much variation there is. One of my favorites was Allium cernuum collected on Rich Mt in North Carolina by Dick Weaver (of We-Du gardens fame), a dwarf deep purple form, by far the smallest I encountered, by sadly I no longer have it.
The southeastern (Virginia & West Virginia) Allium "oxyphilum" was also described as a species, but is correctly a synonym of Allium cernuum, named by Wherry as a different species than cernuum on account of the white flowers, apparently white being rare in those southeastern States, however very common in other parts of the species' range. It has extra long thin pedicels, so it's a charming thing, but again clearly within the range of variability of the species, once the entire range is considered.
Marion Ownbey contributed much about what we know about North American Allium, he published A. cernuum var. neomexicanum and var. obtusum, based on minor differences, in part on the color difference of bulb coats, blood red "var. obtusum", white to pink in "var. neomexicanum". He rescinded both varieties later on in his life, once realizing the cited differences don't hold once looking at a broader spectrum of collections from other states, but unfortunately the varietal names have a life of their own.
Of the more unusual forms observed, were large colonies growing not far above the ocean high water mark on Deception Pass, Whidbey Island, Washington. Growing in full sun among rounded cobble stones, this is a very slender form, with outer and inner tepal whorls quite distinct and on different planes, rather then the more bell-shaped florets, but some cernuum forms do that. Most were white to pale pink.
The North Carolina Native plant Society maintains "allegheniense" as a species, as regional wildflower groups like to hang onto such distinctions. They say about this "species": Although not recognized by most recent authors, A. allegheniense seems distinctive enough in morphology, ecology, and distribution to warrant taxonomic recognition at some level; additional study is needed
The organization's purpose is stated as "to promote enjoyment and conservation of North Carolina's native plants and their habitats through education, protection, propagation, and advocacy", they are not actually a taxonomic authority. The plants shown on their page look attractive, but clearly just another cernuum form, albeit a nice selection.
http://www.ncwildflower.org/index.php/plants/details/allium-allegheniense/ (http://www.ncwildflower.org/index.php/plants/details/allium-allegheniense/)
By the way Rimmer, it is a most attractive bright color, I like it!
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Stephen, the allium from Oregon, are you saying it's an Allium collected and native to Oregon, or from a gardener in Oregon. Allium stellatum doesn't get as far west as Oregon, although there are discrepancies in the Flora of North America distribution map and the USDA (remember on the USDA maps, if a species just crosses into a State, the entire state gets colored in their maps).
USDA:
http://plants.usda.gov/core/profile?symbol=ALST (http://plants.usda.gov/core/profile?symbol=ALST)
FNA:
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=8565&flora_id=1 (http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=8565&flora_id=1)
Both maps are flawed; as State floras record this species as occuring in many more Eastern States than either map shows, and I have a microfiche (microfilm archive documents) printout from one of Marion Ownbey's student, a thesis study on some North American Allium alliances, and A. stellatum goes much further east than generally recorded.
The plant you show is really attractive, with those rounded almost hood-like outer tepals, and erect nearly-closed inner tepals. There are forms of Allium cernuum that show more stronger than other forms, the divergence between the outer and inner tepals. Allium cernuum that I collected among a cobblestone beach at Deception Pass, Whidbey Island, Washington, just above Pacific Ocean high tide, an unlikely spot to be sure, but the allium grew in great numbers, was a smallish form with the three outer tepals flaring outwards, and the three inner ones in the rounded cup shape. At first glance your Oregon plant looks like a stellatum x cernuum hybrid, but if it was collected wild, then it must be a form of cernuum.
Love the shy A. wallichii photo (and beautiful blue stenoden too), I can germinate wallichii (sometimes), but after planting them out, they never make it past the first year, I think I'm giving them spots that are too dry.
The possible cernuum x stellatum hybrid came as seed from a guy in Oregon described as follows: "Wild Nodding Onion from coastal PNW. From slopes of Mt. Heahkahnie."
I don't know if he first grew it in a garden, but I think it unlikely to have crossed with stellatum.....I will try to ask....
Wallichii: they certainly thrive on wet...well adapted here and in the monsoon climate at home...and, to Maggi, I had a chuckle at your comment...
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some pictures from yesterday
allium ramosum
allium senescens seed selections
butterfly
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Alliums are amongst the plants most visited by bees in my garden.
What are the species that have the most nectar?
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Alliums are amongst the plants most visited by bees in my garden.
What are the species that have the most nectar?
with me most butterflies and bees are on allium senescens + seedlings and all ampeloprasum's type's.
But you can find them on almost every allium flower.
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Mark, sorry, have just seen your post of July, 21 after a month's holyday in Britain. So glad you enjoy Allium pseudoflavum. It is a good seed producer here, so I hope you will have a good bunch soon.
Wietse, I'm surprised to see Allium ramosum flowering now. My plants have already opened their seed heads.
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Oleg, It is interesting that you mention the Allium ramosum blooming now. Allium ramosum bloomed here in June and the seed is opening now too.
However i have this similar looking allium grown from SRGC seed started last January 2013 (8 months ago) that is blooming now that looks just like Allium ramosum.
the seed was labelled as Allium tataricum SRGC 2012-13 #209.
the USDA says Allium tataricum is a synymon for A. ramosum
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?2398 (http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?2398)
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-296758 (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-296758)
maybe if it blooms the first year from seed it blooms in August?
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Oleg, no problem, I'm just happy to have this nice species (pseudoflavum) flowering and setting seed, thanks again :) I too was surprised to see Weitse's photo of A. ramosum, blooming now, mine are long finished and shed their seed as well. It may in fact be a form of tuberosum, there are some forms with strong red striping (thus looking more similar to ramosum that typically has red striping), I used to grow such forms, but decided eventually to eradicate all tuberosum for invasive tendencies and tenacious roots that make them hard to pull. Weitse, I do think that your plant is Allium tuberosum.
Rimmer, your allium is A. tuberosum, which should start flowering just about now. Since A. ramosum and tuberosum are frequently mixed up (both white-flowered species), it comes as no surprise for the seed mixup. It's very quick seed to flowering adds to this species spreading tendencies.
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Rimmer, your allium is A. tuberosum, which should start flowering just about now. Since A. ramosum and tuberosum are frequently mixed up (both white-flowered species), it comes as no surprise for the seed mixup. It's very quick seed to flowering adds to this species spreading tendencies.
Thanks Mark
as you could possibly see in the picture of the buss boy tray that has about 20 allium seed labels this was the only allium seeds in the entire tray to grow so well so i was worried it was a gorilla.
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Wietse, I'm surprised to see Allium ramosum flowering now. My plants have already opened their seed heads.
Oleg, Mark,
My normal allium ramosum has also long been going into seed.
but ramosum now flourishes from seed sown in November 2011.
This is last fall replanted, and flowering now in approximately 5% of the plants.
it is also very easy to see the difference between ramosum and tuberosum in the roots and plant structure .
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So, everybody, nature has a lot of miracles in store for us. Doesn't it make life more exciting? I have a number of distinct speciments of Allium tuberosum strikingly different in vigor, height, spreading habits etc. None of them shows invasive tendencies Mark has observed. As it is an autumn flowering species, it doesn't have, I think, enough tine to set seed and I cut stems down before the first snowfall. For me here Allium ramosum is at least twice as tall as Allium tuberosum.
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hi, can some kind soul give me a positive ID on my plant a few pages back? First post on page 12
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10020.165 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10020.165)
thanks!
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I would say Allium sikkimense as well, Mark.
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Could it be allium macrostemon var uratense??
I also post a photo from my macrostemon.
(or maybe the one Mark posted)?
http://www.nature-museum.net/album/ShowSpAlbum.aspx?spid=50154 (http://www.nature-museum.net/album/ShowSpAlbum.aspx?spid=50154)
I dug the plants today and it cannot be allium macrostemon var uratense because it does not have a round bulb. also after flowering the stems does not wither over the summer and come clean from the bulb but stays firmly attached well into fall.
http://content60.eol.org/content/2012/01/23/21/36570_orig.jpg (http://content60.eol.org/content/2012/01/23/21/36570_orig.jpg)
original post: http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10020.msg279951#msg279951 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10020.msg279951#msg279951)
repost of flowers: http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10020.msg280214#msg280214 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10020.msg280214#msg280214)
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I dug the plants today and it cannot be allium macrostemon var uratense because it does not have a round bulb. also after flowering the stems does not wither over the summer and come clean from the bulb but stays firmly attached well into fall.
It is indeed a lot different as allium macrostemon!
I didn't harvest my macrostemon, but let it make good seed.
Now the bulbs just starting to grow again after summer and getting green.
The bulbs are small size 4-8, and they are white
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thanks Oleg!
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I dug the plants today and it cannot be allium macrostemon var uratense because it does not have a round bulb. also after flowering the stems does not wither over the summer and come clean from the bulb but stays firmly attached well into fall.
When I see the photo of your "bulbs" , and then again looking to the flowers, It looks like allium amphibolum a bit???
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In an afternoon of blog catch-up reading, I discover that Panayoti Kelaidis has been getting some more inspiration from McMark - that fellow's influence runs wide!
http://www.botanicgardens.org/blog/overlooked-alliums (http://www.botanicgardens.org/blog/overlooked-alliums)
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Interesting article about edible alliums in last Saturday's Daily Telegraph - probably viewable online.
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In an afternoon of blog catch-up reading, I discover that Panayoti Kelaidis has been getting some more inspiration from McMark - that fellow's influence runs wide!
http://www.botanicgardens.org/blog/overlooked-alliums (http://www.botanicgardens.org/blog/overlooked-alliums)
Nothing gets by you Maggi ;D
I do believe Panayoti's strategic post helped lift me from my oniony despair, when 2-1/2 years of neglect in my Allium garden led to such weed-infested overgrowth, that the garden is essentially "lost". I have started into a massive overhaul, deeply spading the garden, a few square feet at a time, lifting all plants, salvaging what I can, extracting rhizomes of aggressive field grasses, vetches and blackberries from plants to be kept, washing off all soil when necessary. It's very slow going, I have touched perhaps 1/50th of the garden so far. I was inspired this summer, finding so many surviving plants that are worth recovery and renewal, that I'm now committed to the process.
In one of the areas almost totally overwhelmed by field grass and 5' high goldenrod, had many choice forms of Allium stellatum, few are left, but here's one such deep color form extracted when the flowers revealed its location last week, found another one just this morning.
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Hi Mark
can you post a picture of the "Chinese species Allium henryi, a small affair akin to A. cyaneum with delicate sprays of light blue flowers with long protruding stamens." that you referenced was in bloom in mid August in your response to Panayoti Kelaidis blog.
i have such difficulty positively identifying these Chinese blue alliums and wonder if they all hybridize to make a continuous blend from one to the others
Thanks Rimmer
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Hi Rimmer, I'm uploading a few very poor photos, a couple from 2009 using my daughter's entry level digital camera (didn't do well capturing light color flowers), and two from this year taken at daybreak on a misty morning, so again, rather poor photos, but you'll get the idea. It's a distinct species, with flat leaves, and few-flowered heads of pale blue. This came from Chen Yi in 2003 as Allium cyathophorum (I was looking for the "type" species versus var. farreri), but all he plants were misidentified, but was happy to get this species. It blooms mid August, and once again, failed to produce any seed.
I have seen first-hand lots of Allium hybridization in the garden, I cannot say with any certainty that I have witnessed hybrids between any of the late summer Chinese blue-flowered Alliums.
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Thanks Mark
The flat leaf description helps a lot
I have this Chinese allium that came from Yijia Wang as No 2 fall blue
That has flattish leaves but round at base and appears to be making a odd flower bud on new growth
Any ideas in identity?
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I'm not sure what to make of those new growth points, keep us posted if they develop any further in the remaining season.
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A small Allium blooming now, seed grown from Aaron Floden in 2010, labeled Allium cernuum late from Carroll County, Arkansas. It is a sweet little thing, stems 6"-14" tall, with delicate sideways sprays of light pink, I'm confident this is a form of Allium stellatum. It has the ovoid white bulbs as is typical for stellatum, but surprisingly large in size given the delicate proportions of the plant. I'm pleased to have this cute form flowering in September.
[attach=1] [attach=2]
Close-up:
[attach=3]
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That's a nice Allium, Mark...
This one is just coming into flower. Seed propagated as Allium komarovii which it isn't...
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Stephen, a good Allium too. Correct, it's not komarovii, but the name gets confused with A. komarovianum, the latter being a synonym of A. sacculiferum, and by some authorities listed as a synonym of A. thunbergii. Alliums thunbergii and sacculiferum are very close, your allium is bound to be one of those two, probably thunbergii. It's so useful having Allium species that flower so late. :D
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Thanks Mark, I see the similarity to my other thunbergii now (also in flower) :)
Incidentally, the seed for this one originated from Alexandra Berkutenko's seed list (2006-7) - I found a note of the order directly from her web site, so she had misspelled it...
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Stephen - What has become of Mrs. Berkutenko these days? I think she gave a NARGS tour about 15+ years ago.
johnw
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I don't know John, although I think I read something about what she's doing recently...
This one (a form of A. paniculatum?) is also looking good at the moment...
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My goodness Stephen, that's VERY late for paniculatum, although your plant does look like it. Does it always bloom this late? There's a huge number of Codonoprasum Allium (to which paniculatum is a member), so I wonder if this is actually a different fall-blooming species; there are a number of fall blooming Codonoprasum onions. What's the source for this pretty onion?
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I just googled Allium paniculatum "Dwarf Selection" which is the name I got it under in 2002 (seed, unknown source)...and our own discussion came up from 2010: http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg165946#msg165946 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg165946#msg165946)
Interesting to see how my clump has grown in that time :) ...and yes, this is the normal flowering time here ( it flowers for quite some time)
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This little sweetie came from Kirk V as Allium nuttallii but Mark McD informed me last year that it's now Allium drummondii
(unless I've gotten that around the wrong way! ;D )
cheers
fermi
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You got it right Fermi, nuttalii is a synonym for Allium drummondii, and has been for quite a long time.
This USDA link will leads to photos showing some color forms:
http://plants.usda.gov/core/profile?symbol=ALDR# (http://plants.usda.gov/core/profile?symbol=ALDR#)
Flora of North America entry for Allium drummondii:
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=242101355 (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=242101355)
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I just googled Allium paniculatum "Dwarf Selection" which is the name I got it under in 2002 (seed, unknown source)...and our own discussion came up from 2010: http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg165946#msg165946 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg165946#msg165946)
Interesting to see how my clump has grown in that time :) ...and yes, this is the normal flowering time here ( it flowers for quite some time)
Stephen, time sure flies, I vaguely remember that post now that I see it again. Nice to see how your plant has bulked up in the last few years, an interesting late flowering form.
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Each year a pleasure: Allium callimischon var haemostictum.
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Each year a pleasure: Allium callimischon var haemostictum.
They are very nice!!
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Ebbie, that is sooOOO special, what a glorious potful. I've only grown the type species, not the more desirable haemostictum.
We've had a long string of perfect late summer-autumn weather, and a number of autumn blooming Allium are doing nicely. First two views of Allium sacculiferum, one that goes around as Allium aff. thunbergii DJH (Dan Hinkley) 272, a very showy small allium with dense globular heads, unlike the effuse heads on Allium thunbergii.
The next two are Allium pseudojaponicum, this is one I've wondered about for 2 decades, looks similar to thunbergii in bloom, but has flat leaves 4 mm wide (not three-sided hollow leaves as in thunbergii). The newer keys separate this species on account of the flat foliage and no teeth on the stamens. This plant came to me as Allium taquetii (syn. of thunbergii) from the US National Arboretum, it has taken these two decades for the taxonomy to catch up and additional species to be defined around the thunbergii-virgunculae alliance, to be able to apply a name to it.
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And a couple more fall bloomers, the first three show Allium thunbergii, a robust white form that I find to be a particularly good garden plant, growing about 14"-16" tall (35-40 cm). The last photo shows a late form of Allium stellatum, this one from Carroll County, Arkansas (seed was from Aaron Floden), which has been in flower for weeks.
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We've had a long string of perfect late summer-autumn weather, and a number of autumn blooming Allium are doing nicely. First two views of Allium sacculiferum, one that goes around as Allium aff. thunbergii DJH (Dan Hinkley) 272, a very showy small allium with dense globular heads, unlike the effuse heads on Allium thunbergii.
The next two are Allium pseudojaponicum, this is one I've wondered about for 2 decades, looks similar to thunbergii in bloom, but has flat leaves 4 mm wide (not three-sided hollow leaves as in thunbergii). The newer keys separate this species on account of the flat foliage and no teeth on the stamens. This plant came to me as Allium taquetii (syn. of thunbergii) from the US National Arboretum, it has taken these two decades for the taxonomy to catch up and additional species to be defined around the thunbergii-virgunculae alliance, to be able to apply a name to it.
Hi Mark
i was really glad to see your post of these nice fall allium,
I have some of these growing here and I need some help on identify
first the typical Allium thurnbergii ozawa which is about 20cm tall and has narrow needle like triangular leaves- not hollow.
second the white form Allium thurnbergii alba triangular leave- not hollow, this year it is finally the same height as ozawa, but used to be taller but after several years in sand it has adjusted to the ozawa height.
and the third is a larger plant about 30cm tall that is larger is all aspects but is the same form; the flower are twice the size, the leaves are twice or more as large - still triangular form not hollow. This last one came as Allium thurnbergii in NARGS seed 2009-10 #147
is this giant just a different variety of Allium thurnbergii
Thanks
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Mark:
Glad you're back in the saddle.
Always enjoy your pictures.
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Each year a pleasure: Allium callimischon var haemostictum.
Ebbie, very nice compact form - well done!
I can not compete with you but close up my Allium callimischon haemostictum looks good too.
Allium wallichii
Poul
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Thanks for the kind comments, Wietse, Mark and Poul. I am pleased that you like my pot of Allium callimischon var haemostictum.
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After a period of rain , the planting of alliums has started.
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Wietse, I see a lot of labels. Is it possible to say something about the different numbers of allium you grow?
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Wietse, I see a lot of labels. Is it possible to say something about the different numbers of allium you grow?
If I only count all existing species, hybrids and varyties there will be around 400 at this moment. We also have a lot of sowings, crossings and selections, which all together results in about 1,000 labels I think.
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That's a lot of onions, Wietse!
It's good to know someone is promoting the growing of these wonderful bulbs.
Here are a couple more from our garden:
Allium peninsulare
Allium unifolium
cheers
fermi
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Excellent allium peninsulae Fermi, a sp I have been trying to find for a long time. Please let me know if you ever get some spare seeds or bulbs of it :)
I have some allium seed of sp I could send you as a swap if thats ok with australian customs..
Pontus
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lovely colour on that Allium peninsulare, Fermi
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Thanks, pontus _ I've sent you a PM;
Mark, it's nice and vibrant - a couple of the other North American ones have that colour just on the petal tips;
Surprisingly, this is the first time that I've flowered the rather "common" Allium moly!
I think I like it :)
cheers
fermi
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Fermi nice peninsulare...is there variation in the species...and how do you grow this one?
cheers
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the first field is is planted, and also the "perennial" Alliums are all torn and replanted
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Breathtakingly neat looking field, Wietse. Nice to see it in a different season. Good luck with planting. Hope to show your Alliums flowering in my garden next year. Many of those you call plants or perennial alliums showed their growth. You see, we still do not have snow and + 10 C when we usually have about O is a pleasant bonus.
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Wietse,
Do you generally wait for the first rains before you plant?... I guess you get a lot of rain...snow in your winter/spring?
We had a very dry winter/ spring here and the allium bulbs that didnt get water didnt do so well...you read that they are drought tollerate, to a degree, in summer ...I think im going to irrigate in winter/ spring
cheers
Stephen
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Breathtakingly neat looking field, Wietse. Nice to see it in a different season. Good luck with planting. Hope to show your Alliums flowering in my garden next year. Many of those you call plants or perennial alliums showed their growth. You see, we still do not have snow and + 10 C when we usually have about O is a pleasant bonus.
Hello,
Nice to hear from you!
How are things in Moscow?
I'm very curious how the Alliums will survive the winter in Moscow, and hope to see some beautiful photos in spring next year!
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Wietse,
Do you generally wait for the first rains before you plant?... I guess you get a lot of rain...snow in your winter/spring?
We had a very dry winter/ spring here and the allium bulbs that didnt get water didnt do so well...you read that they are drought tollerate, to a degree, in summer ...I think im going to irrigate in winter/ spring
cheers
Stephen
Hello,
In the Netherlands, we never have to wait long for rain. In the summer it is sometimes a few weeks dry, but autumn and winter are usually wet, and especially this fall I've been waiting for weeks to get some nice dry weather.
We still have about 7.5 hectares tulips to plant, and about 1 hectare seedlings of tulips and Alliums by hand, and for this we need at least a week of nice dry weather.
Unfortunately, it seems that is not comming soon.......
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I posted the following question about a plant I got as Allium hirtifolium about 4 years ago but, in those days there was no Wietse and Onionman at hand, so I ask again now. Is this hirtifolium?
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=3028.msg95152#msg95152 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=3028.msg95152#msg95152)
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I posted the following question about a plant I got as Allium hirtifolium about 4 years ago but, in those days there was no Wietse and Onionman at hand, so I ask again now. Is this hirtifolium?
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=3028.msg95152#msg95152 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=3028.msg95152#msg95152)
It looks like allium altissimum to me, Do you have a photo from the bulbs?
What colour are the bulbs?
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allium altissimum
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allium altissimum bulbs
allium hookerii flowering now! , is that normal this late in a year??
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That reminded me that I had accidentally dug up a bulb this autumn and took a picture :)
I've never planted altissimum and these bulbs were purchased as hirtifolium album...a mix-up somewhere...
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Yes, hookeri flowering now seems very late. This picture of var muliense was taken on 29th July in the Gothenburg Botanics...
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I just looked up Allium altissimum and discovered this paper http://ecisi.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/516-522.doc.pdf (http://ecisi.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/516-522.doc.pdf) where it's called the Persian Shallot.... I was actually researching Persian Shallot (often imported in dried form and sold in Iranian stores). Allium hirtifolium or stipitatum is normally called Persian shallot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allium_stipitatum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allium_stipitatum)
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Hello,
Nice to hear from you!
How are things in Moscow?
I'm very curious how the Alliums will survive the winter in Moscow, and hope to see some beautiful photos in spring next year!
Wietse, you can expect a detailed report in spring about overwintering. Much depends on the weather. Winters are different here. But the main threat is severe frost without the snow blanket. So far we have been enjoying very warm October and November. + 15 C is expected tomorrow which is more than 10 above the norm for this time of the year. So there is a lot of anxiety about sudden severe frost. My special worry are American Alliums. I will see in spring.
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The possible cernuum x stellatum hybrid came as seed from a guy in Oregon described as follows: "Wild Nodding Onion from coastal PNW. From slopes of Mt. Heahkahnie."
I don't know if he first grew it in a garden, but I think it unlikely to have crossed with stellatum.....I will try to ask....
Wallichii: they certainly thrive on wet...well adapted here and in the monsoon climate at home...and, to Maggi, I had a chuckle at your comment...
Mark: I checked with my source and this Allium cernuum was wild collected near Neakahnie Mountain, Manzanita OR on a bluff overlooking the ocean and wasn't near any mountains, so it must be a form of Allium cernuum :)
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Thanks for checking back in Stephen; it was worth the wait :)
I just went back and reread the thread, and most of the posts between.
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I'd posted these allium pics elsewhere in November and forgotten to add them here!
Allium dichlamydeum
Allium ? bolanderi?
Allium peninsulare
Allium abramsii
cheers
fermi
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Fermi, I have some thoughts on these (of the identification kind), and actually took some notes, I'll see if I can rustle up the little piece of note paper from my desktop "debris" and clutter, then will answer on one side of the pond or the other, sorry about the delay on answering on NARGS.
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Just got fantastic Christmas present from my great German friend - Reinhardt Fritsch. It is his book wrote with assistance of M. Abbasi from Iran. It is latest update of Melanocrommyum Alliums from Iran - most ornamental Alliums. There are fantastic bilingual (English and Persian) illustrated key of species included and excellent descriptions in English allowing identification + excellent picture including seeds, flower details, plants, inflorescences. Although I more prefer different composition of keys, included is easy usable, too, especially taking in account space needed for illustrations. There are notes about seed germination conditions, explaining why sometimes seeds didn't germinate. Book is result of many years of field work and laboratory researches made by Reinhardt Fritsch with his Iranian assistants in Iran and in Gatersleben institute of plant genetics.
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Just got fantastic Christmas present from my great German friend - Reinhardt Fritsch. It is his book wrote with assistance of M. Abbasi from Iran. It is latest update of Melanocrommyum Alliums from Iran - most ornamental Alliums.
it is possible to buy this book?
and where is it for sale?
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it is possible to buy this book?
and where is it for sale?
I don't know. Got it as present. Will try to find. You in any case can ask in Gatersleben, Germany. Leibniz Institute of Plant Genetics and Crop Research (IPK), D-06466 Gatersleben, Germany
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You can buy it or download it free on this address:
http://www.ipk-gatersleben.de (http://www.ipk-gatersleben.de)
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Here (http://www.ipk-gatersleben.de/fileadmin/content-ipk/content-ipk-ressourcen/Download/IrMeRevAllN.pdf)'s the download link (23 MB). A superb book.
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You can buy it or download it free on this address:
http://www.ipk-gatersleben.de (http://www.ipk-gatersleben.de)
Thank you, I will try....
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http://www.ipk-gatersleben.de/fileadmin/content-ipk/content-ipk-ressourcen/Download/IrMeRevAllN.pdf (http://www.ipk-gatersleben.de/fileadmin/content-ipk/content-ipk-ressourcen/Download/IrMeRevAllN.pdf) Here's the download link (23 MB). A superb book.
Wietse, Ashley gives the direct link.... http://www.ipk-gatersleben.de/fileadmin/content-ipk/content-ipk-ressourcen/Download/IrMeRevAllN.pdf (http://www.ipk-gatersleben.de/fileadmin/content-ipk/content-ipk-ressourcen/Download/IrMeRevAllN.pdf) - it's a big file!!
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Wiese, Ashley gives the direct link.... http://www.ipk-gatersleben.de/fileadmin/content-ipk/content-ipk-ressourcen/Download/IrMeRevAllN.pdf (http://www.ipk-gatersleben.de/fileadmin/content-ipk/content-ipk-ressourcen/Download/IrMeRevAllN.pdf) - it's a big file!!
I've tried both links, but they do not open either, and the Computer Is Freezing
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It worked for me but took a while to download.
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A 23MB file is a large one- which may well take a long time to download- and which may trigger a time-out shut down of that download. You may even have a setting that prevents such a large download..... I have heard of that in the past.
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I think Maggi has it right. I have a fast download and it took a couple of mins.
I think it's too big to email around.
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Thank you, thank you, thank you, what an outstanding document, it takes Allium taxonomy to new heights, amazing amount of material and enlightenment inside. I had no trouble using the link Maggi provided, PDF downloaded in about 20 seconds. I believe this will be my best Christmas present. :)
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Whaou, what a present :) Thank you for this great share and the work of Reinhardt.
I still believe in Santa Claus, now my wife gonna trust me :+))
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Yann, that reminds me, I believe a special expression of THANK YOU goes to both authors and the Leibniz Institute of Plant Genetics and Crop Research (IPK) in Gatersleben, Germany, for making this monumental work so accessible.
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.................. I believe a special expression of THANK YOU goes to both authors and the Leibniz Institute of Plant Genetics and Crop Research (IPK) in Gatersleben, Germany, for making this monumental work so accessible.
That is certainly the case, Mark - such generous sharing of this book is very much to be applauded.
Wonderful that IPK Gatersleben has this open attitude.
Other useful Allium information is also available from that page :
List of Allium publications
European Allium Database
Garlic and Shallot Core Collection
Taxonomic Allium Reference Collection
For those who cannot download the book, a printed copy is available for 30 euros : http://www.ipk-gatersleben.de/gbisipk-gaterslebendegbis-i/spezialsammlungen/allium-review/order-information/ (http://www.ipk-gatersleben.de/gbisipk-gaterslebendegbis-i/spezialsammlungen/allium-review/order-information/)
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Mark u're right.
I've scrolled the whole pdf, and have to admit that is a colossal work.
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Thank you, Ashley. It's amazing to get such detailed information at the clip of a button. No problem with the down load but google didn't want to translate every page.
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Margaret , my whole text is in English. There are one or two pages at the end showing a different cover, but all the rest is in English -- are you giving the pages a chance to open up as you scroll through?
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Indeed thanks to the authors and IPK Gatersleben, as Maggi says (and to Oron who alerted us to the publication online).
Now what about the North American species Mark? ;) ;D
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There were some pages in Farsi on the one I downloaded.
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I spent my evening reading the pdf, this is really a gold mine.
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it took a while, but it worked!
Everything is in English so it does not read as easily as Dutch to me, but really interesting and beautiful pictures
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Maggi, thank you for the link!
I have just ordered two copies, a wonderful reference book to have on the Bookshelf!!
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File really is big, but I downloaded ir without problems. Although I have printed copy, I like to have PDF file on computer, too as it allows to use "search" function to find species.
And I agree - we urgently need similar work about American Alliums.
Janis
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Very busy at the moment! Not with allium this time, but in the tulips.
last summer we built our greenhouse bigger, and we started picking the first flowers last week.
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File really is big, but I downloaded ir without problems. Although I have printed copy, I like to have PDF file on computer, too as it allows to use "search" function to find species.
And I agree - we urgently need similar work about American Alliums.
Janis
The American Alliums are relatively well-known and documented, but what is needed is an updated more user-friendly illustrated comprehensive key to the species (including Mexican species). The book 'Bulbs of North America', a North American Rock Garden Society Publication, covers every North American species, including name-dropping a couple dozen Mexican species (I've grown a handful of them). It can be purchased used for bargain basement prices here:
http://www.amazon.com/Bulbs-America-American-Garden-Society/dp/1604690798 (http://www.amazon.com/Bulbs-America-American-Garden-Society/dp/1604690798)
This is not even to begin to compare in the slightest with the impressive scholarly work by Fritsch and Abbasi, the treatment in Bulbs of North America is a pedestrian hobbyist summation of species of North American Allium compiled by two amateurs, the late Jim Robinett on the Californian onions (nearly half the species count) and the balance of Allium in North America compiled by yours truly. The group is difficult on a number of accounts, information was historically regional or USA State-based, lots of confusing synonymy, key element to species differentiation being bulb-coat reticulation minutia, and lack of definition after the work of Marion Ownbey in the mid 20th century.
There are a number of excellent web resources with which to see information and photographs of just every Allium species in the USA (although almost nothing found on the Mexican species), Calphotos is one such site.
Key to Allium in North America:
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=101086 (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=101086)
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Thanks Mark for link to N American Allium key! It is very valuable.
Book BULBS OF NORTH AMERICA is excellent, but sometimes not easy to use for identification and name checking.
Janis