Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Specific Families and Genera => Amaryllidaceae => Topic started by: Angelo Porcelli on January 19, 2013, 09:28:25 AM

Title: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Angelo Porcelli on January 19, 2013, 09:28:25 AM
As antipicated, the New Year starts with some nice plants here, the last two Sternbergia species.
Sternbergia candida, hasn't reach its peak yet, I find this species very slow to increase.
Now I would like to start a discussion about S. fischeriana, now renamed S. vernalis.
I have two forms of this species, one with dull green leaves, which I see is the oone most of you show in photos and another with gray leaves. The gray form is undoubtely a great performer, at least in my climate, this year I think I have got the maximum result, yesterday I counted 46 open flowers and there are a lot of small buds. This form flower well above the leaves, which are rather short at this time, but they grow long later resembling truly a Narcissus . The green one instead has short stemmed flowers which are the same height of the leaves, so flowering is less showy, not only this but the size of the flowers are about half those of the gray form. Of course that clump of gray form is 10 years old, the green ones are much younger, but even when single head bulbs the gray form has been always better.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Angelo Porcelli on January 19, 2013, 09:29:13 AM
Another interesting feature I have noticed is the difference in setting fruits of the two forms. The gray one bears the pod in axis with the peduncle, laying it on the ground as usual, but the green one instead developes the pod at almost right angle to the peduncle, looking like a Galanthus and it lay to the ground that way.

Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Hans A. on January 20, 2013, 08:09:04 AM
Fantastic show Angelo! :o
Here a picture of my green S. fischeriana - the greyish plant in front was given to me also as S. fischeriana - but as it flowers in November without leaves and it looks very much like S.clusiana I think it is not.

Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Gert Hoek on January 20, 2013, 12:04:46 PM
As antipicated, the New Year starts with some nice plants here, the last two Sternbergia species.
Sternbergia candida, hasn't reach its peak yet, I find this species very slow to increase.
Now I would like to start a discussion about S. fischeriana, now renamed S. vernalis.
I have two forms of this species, one with dull green leaves, which I see is the oone most of you show in photos and another with gray leaves. The gray form is undoubtely a great performer, at least in my climate, this year I think I have got the maximum result, yesterday I counted 46 open flowers and there are a lot of small buds. This form flower well above the leaves, which are rather short at this time, but they grow long later resembling truly a Narcissus . The green one instead has short stemmed flowers which are the same height of the leaves, so flowering is less showy, not only this but the size of the flowers are about half those of the gray form. Of course that clump of gray form is 10 years old, the green ones are much younger, but even when single head bulbs the gray form has been always better.

What a wonderfull Sternbergia show
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: arilnut on January 20, 2013, 03:41:21 PM
Here S. candida blooming, 2 weeks ahead of last year.

John B
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on January 22, 2013, 02:52:44 PM
Angelo,
Very impressive show!
The grey S. vernalis is very interesting. If you have some spare bulbs when you replant I will be very interested in buying/swapping a bulb.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: bulborum on January 22, 2013, 04:07:17 PM
S. vernalis
Typo PeHe ??

R

Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on January 22, 2013, 04:11:12 PM
S. vernalis
Typo PeHe ??
R

http://citesbulbs.myspecies.info/category/sternbergia/sternbergia-vernalis (http://citesbulbs.myspecies.info/category/sternbergia/sternbergia-vernalis)
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: bulborum on January 22, 2013, 04:56:22 PM
Thanks Maggie
learning every day  :D

Roland
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on January 22, 2013, 05:42:52 PM
Ah, Roland, my problem is though I learn every day, I then  forget every other day!  :-X
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: bulborum on January 22, 2013, 06:54:36 PM
Same problem here
luckily there are computer to store all that info
and Fora to search
How did they do that 30 years ago  ???

Roland
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: David Nicholson on January 22, 2013, 07:24:49 PM
Same problem here
luckily there are computer to store all that info
and Fora to search
How did they do that 30 years ago  ???

Roland

Moi aussi. Shoeboxes and post cards-couldn't find a thing then, can't find a thing now ::)
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Matt on January 23, 2013, 10:12:45 PM
Here S. candida blooming, 2 weeks ahead of last year.

John B

Hi John,

do you grow S. candida outside in Kansas? Or is it in a greenhouse?

Matt
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: arilnut on January 24, 2013, 12:44:55 AM
Hi Matt. It is out in the ground. Poked up in early December and we have been down
in the lows teen's F a few times since and 20"s quite a bit.  But up in the 50"s F at least
once every week.

John B
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Matt on January 27, 2013, 11:22:08 PM
Hi John,

Thank you for the reply.
I wasn't imagining S. candida to be as hardy. Few times at -10C and several times at -5C would easily kill any tender-ish bulb (or at least freeze the flowers!).
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: arilnut on January 28, 2013, 02:54:07 AM
I would say pretty hardy.  No snow cover at all.  Here is a pic of my place, the S. candida
is behind the old boiler tub behind the street sign.  Not much protection.

John B
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Gerry Webster on February 07, 2013, 05:25:28 PM
Sternbergia candida

This year the  flowers are somewhat smaller than usual.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on February 07, 2013, 05:44:04 PM
Sternbergia candida

This year the  flowers are somewhat smaller than usual.
Still a very good clump though, Gerry!
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Gerry Webster on February 07, 2013, 06:02:43 PM
Thanks Maggi. "Can do better" as my old Latin master used to say.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on February 07, 2013, 06:41:23 PM
Stil great to see Gerry .
And now .....Sternbergia for beginners .... ;D
 After the magnificent clumps..... I show you the first time flowering here of Sternbergia vernalis ....
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Angelo Porcelli on February 07, 2013, 10:27:51 PM
nice to see them flowering in your countries. BTW, mine are still in flower !  :)
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on February 07, 2013, 10:37:42 PM
BTW, mine are still in flower !  :)
Still??!! Wow!  :o 8)
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on February 08, 2013, 06:35:53 AM
Sternbergia candida

This year the  flowers are somewhat smaller than usual.

But a little smaller than usual is still much better than no flowers!
Mine grow and increase well but I'm afraid there will be no flowers this year (as usual, I'm tempted to say). As a consequence of that, I have split them up last summer. Some were planted in the best spot in my garden, some I have in a 11 cm Long Tom pot and some in a standard 9 cm pot. All will be heavily feed this year. Hopefully that will result in some flowers next year.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Angelo Porcelli on February 08, 2013, 08:34:29 AM
Yes Maggi, they put new buds over the weeks, some flowers a bit spoiled by the rains.
About the size of the flowers, years ago when I got the first flowering of these species I was quite disappointed, they were rather small compared with my large-flowered clones of lutea. So, if it wasn't for the winter time of flowering, I would have not given them much consideration indeed. After a couple of season the flowers became significatively larger, reaching the full potential of the species, till to turn to be one of the 'superstar' plants of January. Probably the bulbs need to size up well before to get the maximum result, it's rather odd that all species resent to be moved in spite to don't have perennial roots.
I have checked the biggest bulbs of fischeriana can produce 4 flowers, on candida 3, I got 6 on lutea but it was a double-nose bulb, while I have yet to see the top limit of clusiana.

A question, have you checked if S. candida is scented? It is said to be freesia scented, but mine are not scented at all. The gray fischeriana instead is lightly lemon scented.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Gerry Webster on February 08, 2013, 03:17:16 PM

........A question, have you checked if S. candida is scented? It is said to be freesia scented, but mine are not scented at all. The gray fischeriana instead is lightly lemon scented.

Angelo - I can't detect any scent at all but my nose is not the most sensitive.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on February 08, 2013, 04:46:22 PM


And now .....Sternbergia for beginners .... ;D


But what a beginner!
I think you are very skilled. S. Vernalis is not easy to flower indeed.
Lovely show so far north!

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on February 16, 2013, 07:03:57 PM
I have three forms of Sternbergia colchiciflora. Their flowers are quite similar but their leaves are different. Two of them have rather broad leaves and the other relatively narrow leaves which have a bluish tint.
The two of them are shown in the pic below. The broad-leaved at the left is from Ziyaret pass, Turkey and the narrow-leaved is grown from seeds collected somewhere in Turkey. Unfortunately I do not know where in Turkey. Can anybody help with a location?

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: anita on March 17, 2013, 01:10:44 AM
Sternbergia kick off in the Southern Hemisphere.
These bulbs are growing outside. As we live in a seriously hot Mediterranean climate they don't seem to mind being in a bed that is watered occasionally.
Anita
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: fermi de Sousa on April 02, 2013, 09:09:23 AM
Sternbergia sicula is in full bloom in our garden - all came originally from seed from Rannweig Wallis in Wales - having been collected in Crete I believe.
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: fermi de Sousa on April 02, 2013, 09:11:02 AM
Sternbergia lutea is also in bloom
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on April 02, 2013, 08:44:55 PM
Sternbergia lutea is also in bloom
cheers
fermi

Fantastic show Fermi !  :o
Wish we could grow them outside like that .
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Angelo Porcelli on April 02, 2013, 10:11:29 PM
Very nice Fermi, I do grow that form from R. Wallis ex Crete ad is a good increaser, although quite small compared to my other forms
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: fermi de Sousa on April 03, 2013, 05:16:01 AM
Very nice Fermi, I do grow that form from R. Wallis ex Crete ad is a good increaser, although quite small compared to my other forms
Hi Angelo,
yes, Otto has given me a bulb of the form he got from...Paul Furse, I think. It is still one bulb but flowers consistently - it is half way in size between "Rannweig's" S. sicula and the "commercial" form of S. lutea.

Fantastic show Fermi !  :o
Wish we could grow them outside like that .
Hi Kris,
we always want what we can't get ;)
I'm impressed with what you can grow where you are. The Sternbergias grow themselves here - we just try to make sure they don't get watered during the summer when they are asleep!
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Otto Fauser on April 05, 2013, 07:38:43 AM
Hi Angelo,
yes, Otto has given me a bulb of the form he got from...Paul Furse, I think. It is still one bulb but flowers consistently - it is half way in size between "Rannweig's" S. sicula and the "commercial" form of S. lutea.
Hi Kris,
we always want what we can't get ;)
I'm impressed with what you can grow where you are. The Sternbergias grow themselves here - we just try to make sure they don't get watered during the summer when they are asleep!
cheers
fermi

 Fermi , for the record : the S. sicula I gave you came from Alan Edwards and was collected in the Selia Gorge ,Crete.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Anthony Darby on April 19, 2013, 09:19:52 AM
Lovely Sternbergia spp. there. Do they set seed?
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: fermi de Sousa on April 19, 2013, 03:37:08 PM
Lovely Sternbergia spp. there. Do they set seed?
Hi Anthony,
occasionally I manage to catch a few few before the wasps and ants disperse them
I'll keep an eye out and let you know,
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on April 19, 2013, 06:44:17 PM
Fermi , for the record : the S. sicula I gave you came from Alan Edwards and was collected in the Selia Gorge ,Crete.

This is one of the best forms I ever seen Otto  !
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: fermi de Sousa on July 01, 2013, 07:04:44 AM
The white Sternbergia is in flower again!
It's being protected by an overgrowth of a DBI!
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: bulborum on July 01, 2013, 07:58:21 PM
Nice one Fermi

Roland
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: fermi de Sousa on July 11, 2013, 05:52:22 AM
More blooms open on our little clump of Sternbergia candida :D
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on August 26, 2013, 11:36:24 AM
The autumn season has started in the northern hemisphere.
In this through of an early form of Sternbergia sicula there is 60+ flowers.
It normally spent the winter, spring and summer in my green house along with some other big Sternbergia pots.
But this year I was short of space and in June I placed them outside against a south facing wall. At that time it was very rainy, so I covered them with an almost closed plastic mini green house.
We had a warm and sunny summer, and they got a god 'baking'. At the end of July i checked the temperature inside the mini green house and I was chocked to see that the surface temperature of the through was 53oC and the soil temperature was 46oC 5cm below the surface. I removed the cover immediately but as this was not the warmest day of the summer, I was sure all the bulbs has been killed.
Luckily they were not, but they have had the baking of their life!

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on August 26, 2013, 11:43:30 AM
The autumn season has started in the northern hemisphere.
In this trough of an early form of Sternbergia sicula there is 60+ flowers.
It normally spent the winter, spring and summer in my green house along with some other big Sternbergia pots.
But this year I was short of space and in June I placed them outside against a south facing wall. At that time it was very rainy, so I covered them with an almost closed plastic mini green house.
We had a warm and sunny summer, and they got a god 'baking'. At the end of July i checked the temperature inside the mini green house and I was chocked to see that the surface temperature of the through was 53oC and the soil temperature was 46oC 5cm below the surface. I removed the cover immediately but as this was not the warmest day of the summer, I was sure all the bulbs has been killed.
Luckily they were not, but they have had the baking of their life!
Poul

Oh! My goodness, how wonderful they look!
After such high temperatures  you might have thought they were roasted enough to eat  :o
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on August 26, 2013, 02:58:24 PM
Oh! My goodness, how wonderful they look!
After such high temperatures  you might have thought they were roasted enough to eat  :o

Yes, I did. But I think they are poisonous. If they were tulips I would certainly have eaten them ;D

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on August 26, 2013, 09:26:26 PM
In this through of an early form of Sternbergia sicula there is 60+ flowers.
Poul

 :o :o :o  What a great show Poul . What a season opener ......

Interesting experience , again some evidence that they need baking in summer ....
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on August 27, 2013, 06:37:49 PM
The autumn season has started in the northern hemisphere.
In this through of an early form of Sternbergia sicula there is 60+ flowers.
It normally spent the winter, spring and summer in my green house along with some other big Sternbergia pots.
But this year I was short of space and in June I placed them outside against a south facing wall. At that time it was very rainy, so I covered them with an almost closed plastic mini green house.
We had a warm and sunny summer, and they got a god 'baking'. At the end of July i checked the temperature inside the mini green house and I was chocked to see that the surface temperature of the through was 53oC and the soil temperature was 46oC 5cm below the surface. I removed the cover immediately but as this was not the warmest day of the summer, I was sure all the bulbs has been killed.
Luckily they were not, but they have had the baking of their life!

Poul

Superb and very impressive Poul !  :o :o :o
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on September 02, 2013, 07:33:12 AM
Thank you Kris and Luc!

The next to flower is Sternbergia colchiciflora. Not impressive as the sicula, but I find the flower very elegant.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on September 02, 2013, 08:35:34 PM
Thank you Kris and Luc!
The next to flower is Sternbergia colchiciflora. Not impressive as the sicula, but I find the flower very elegant.
Poul

Congratulations Poul ! Here it is not reliable in flowering ....Most of the years it won't flower  :(
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on September 03, 2013, 06:02:07 AM
Congratulations Poul ! Here it is not reliable in flowering ....Most of the years it won't flower  :(

The same here - last year they didn't flower, or more correct they didn't show they flowers. But they set seeds so they must have flowered below ground.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Oakwood on September 08, 2013, 06:27:05 PM
Thanks, Poul!!! Very showy S. sicula!!! Besides, I've got this one from you flowering at me in Donetsk in late August - see here. Also, I put here some flowering clones of S. colchiciflora. I grow two races - ONE from Bessarabia (S. Ukraine) with narrow tiny leaves and freely blooming every year, and the SECOND from Crimea with big broad leaves, rare flowering and often cleistogamic flowers. I put here S. colchiciflora from Bessarabian race.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Oakwood on September 08, 2013, 06:35:21 PM
Merendera montana & Sternbergia colchiciflora (Bessarabian race)
S. colchiciflora leaves (Bessarabian race, April 2013)
S. colchiciflora leaves (Crimean race, April 2013)
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on September 09, 2013, 06:26:17 AM
Thanks, Poul!!! Very showy S. sicula!!! Besides, I've got this one from you flowering at me in Donetsk in late August - see here. Also, I put here some  clones of S. colchiciflora. I grow two races - ONE from Bessarabia (S. Ukraine) with narrow tiny leaves and freely blooming every year, and the SECOND from Crimea with big broad leaves, rare flowering and often cleistogamic flowers. I put here S. colchiciflora from Bessarabian race.
I am glad you have success too!! And especial that the Sternbergia I send you thrive in Donetsk!
Your colchiciflora are very interesting. Can you tell me how the habitat are where they grow?
Do you know if they need a hot summer bake to flower well?
I grow two races too, one narrow leaved and one with broader leaves, but not as broad as your Bessarabian race. Both are from Turkey. You can see a pic of them in reply 26 in this thread. The ones I showed in flower above are the narrow leaved race. Some years this race flowers best, in other years the broad leaved form flowers best.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on September 09, 2013, 11:28:08 AM
Sternbergia has started flowering early this year. We have had a long warm summer resulting in many flowers.

1. The first flower this year of my own hybrid. Sternbergia lutea x sicula Dodona Gold
2. The same in sunshine
3. Sternbergia sicula Dodona Gold. In this 20 cm pot I counted more than 25 flowers and flower buds
4. Sternbergia sicula, early form and Colchicum montanum in the open garden

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Oakwood on September 09, 2013, 07:38:04 PM
I am glad you have success too!! And especial that the Sternbergia I send you thrive in Donetsk!
Your colchiciflora are very interesting. Can you tell me how the habitat are where they grow?
Do you know if they need a hot summer bake to flower well?
I grow two races too, one narrow leaved and one with broader leaves, but not as broad as your Bessarabian race. Both are from Turkey. You can see a pic of them in reply 26 in this thread. The ones I showed in flower above are the narrow leaved race. Some years this race flowers best, in other years the broad leaved form flowers best.

Poul

Poul, I put here S. colchiciflora habitats in Crimea and in Bessarabia (Odessa region, Ukraine). As I told you Bessarabian plants bloom freely every year (we've got hot dry summer), but my Crimean plants flower rare, I've noticed they bloom well when we have rainy spring, else - they are cleistogamic in those years with dry spring.

Bessarabian habitat - freely blooming S. colchiciflora. It is S. Ukraine, Odessa region steppes, in bushes and Robinia pseudoacacia and Gleditsia triacanthos plantations.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Oakwood on September 09, 2013, 07:47:19 PM
Crimean habitat - rarely blooming S. colchiciflora. It is S. Ukraine, Crimea peninsula, montane ravines (1000 m), in open dry southern sea slopes (300-500 m).
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on September 11, 2013, 06:32:46 AM
Dima, thank you for the very informative pics and habitat descriptions. This helps understanding the bulbs and their needs. I will plant my broad leaved S. colchiciflora in a warm bed outside, where they will get rain in the spring to see if that gives better flowering. I will keep you informed about the result.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on September 18, 2013, 07:18:13 PM
Interesting this postings from Dimitri and Poul about colchiciflora !

This form of S. sicula is planted out in my rockgarden for 4 years now and it is flowering for the third time. Only previous year it was not flowering .
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on September 18, 2013, 08:45:23 PM
Sternbergia lutea ssp lutea started flowering here !  3 weeks later than last year !

Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on September 19, 2013, 09:29:04 AM

This form of S. sicula is planted out in my rockgarden for 4 years now and it is flowering for the third time. Only previous year it was not flowering .

Kris your Sternbergia planting look very natural! If one didn't know it could have been pics from a mountain in Greece.
How was your summer this year compared with last year? In Denmark we had a relative warm and long summer resulting in very good Sternbergia flowering.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on September 19, 2013, 09:32:52 AM
Sternbergia lutea ssp lutea started flowering here !  3 weeks later than last year !

Luc, very nice lutea! The many flowers show it likes the planting site against the wall.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on September 19, 2013, 09:47:37 AM
Besides more flowers the long and warm summer has also resulted in leafless flowering in many of my Sternbergias.
In most years this Sternbergia lutea has very advanced leaves before the flowers show up, but not this year.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on September 19, 2013, 08:22:07 PM
Kris your Sternbergia planting look very natural! If one didn't know it could have been pics from a mountain in Greece.
How was your summer this year compared with last year? In Denmark we had a relative warm and long summer resulting in very good Sternbergia flowering.
Poul

Thanks Poul ! It is one of my dreams/targets to grow them as natural as possible ........But it is a hard way with a lot of disappointments . But I learned  from the past........... first anough stock in pots before they go outside to try ... .On the other hand I am a better grower of plants (bulbs & rockgardenplants )outside in the garden then in pots ....or under glas...

We had a really very dry and warm summer with  not any rain between the end of june and the beginning of september .
If they are not willing to flower outside this year I would be very disappointed and I would not understand it anymore.
On the other hand al my Sternies in pot are not showing any sign ........They are growing in the glashouse ..
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 20, 2013, 12:47:53 PM
Sternbergia sicula          

From a collection made in 1966 by Herbert & Molly Crook (C 529), at 300m in the Peloponnese
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on September 20, 2013, 12:53:01 PM
A very satisfyingly fat potful, Gerry - potted sunshine  8)
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on September 20, 2013, 01:24:21 PM
I agree Maggi, a fantastic potful, Gerry !  :o
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: ashley on September 20, 2013, 01:36:52 PM
Spectacular :o 
Well done Gerry.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 20, 2013, 02:03:26 PM
Thanks all. It's really down to the hot summer.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on September 20, 2013, 02:14:59 PM
Thanks all. It's really down to the hot summer.

You are too modest - good feeding and watering is important too.
So well done!

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: David Nicholson on September 20, 2013, 07:25:51 PM
Great show Gerry, well done.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on September 22, 2013, 08:16:40 AM
My clump of Sternbergia lutea enjoyed the sunshine today !

[attachimg=1]


.... ans so did the bees !!


[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 22, 2013, 09:56:28 AM
Very nice Luc.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 22, 2013, 10:05:25 AM
Sternbergia greuteriana   

From  JJA 933.350.    
Greece, Karpathos ex a Manfred Koenen collection (01-87 ). This is tiny.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on September 22, 2013, 10:14:32 AM
Small is beautiful, Gerry !!! 8)
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Pauli on September 22, 2013, 01:31:17 PM
My best clone of Sternbergia sicula


Itwas collected on the island of Corfu, on top of its highest mountain, Pantokrator.
Here fully hardy  and flowering without any protection winter or summer.

If somebody is interested, next spring I shall have some for exchange!
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on September 22, 2013, 03:24:04 PM
My best clone of Sternbergia sicula
Itwas collected on the island of Corfu, on top of its highest mountain, Pantokrator.
Here fully hardy  and flowering without any protection winter or summer.
If somebody is interested, next spring I shall have some for exchange!

 :o :o :o So impressive Herbert ! Maybe , so far this one needs to get the award of   "the best Sternbergia of 2013 " ....Tough Poul's , Luc's  and Gerry's plant are stil  competitors .....
Oh yes please , You may put me on your list for Exchange .Some long time ago I was on this Pantokrator , but it was high summer and only the Verbascums and Euphorbia's where flowering.

Another question , how do you grow it so succesfully ?

Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 22, 2013, 04:03:31 PM
My best clone of Sternbergia sicula


Itwas collected on the island of Corfu, on top of its highest mountain, Pantokrator.
Here fully hardy  and flowering without any protection winter or summer.

If somebody is interested, next spring I shall have some for exchange!

Very impressive Herbert. I wish I could grow them in the open garden. My plants from Pantokrator ( in a frame) are also in flower.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Pauli on September 22, 2013, 05:33:59 PM
Kris,

I do nothing except some fertilizer in spring!

Frosts down to -18C, this year a new summer record with 37,5 C, no watering ever! Linz has close to 800mm rain/year, most of it in the summer months! No reliable snow cover!

I will be glad to exchange next summer!
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on September 22, 2013, 06:40:42 PM
My best clone of Sternbergia sicula.....


Beautiful clumps Herbert!
It certainly is a very floriferious clone! How is the flowering after a colder summer?

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: mark smyth on September 23, 2013, 05:02:11 PM
OMG a miracle has happened. For the first time EVER I have Sterngerias in flower
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 23, 2013, 06:13:06 PM
Sternbergia sicula   

Derived from a collection made near  Castel del Monte,   Apulia, Italy.
A gift from a kind forumist.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: fermi de Sousa on September 24, 2013, 09:52:59 AM
OMG a miracle has happened. For the first time EVER I have Sterngerias in flower
Photographic proof, Mark? ;D
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: hadacekf on September 28, 2013, 08:57:08 PM
Sternbergia sicula and lute in my meadow.
Not a big difference!
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Pauli on September 29, 2013, 10:24:41 AM
Sternbergia lutea
A few days behind sicula and not as floriferous!
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on September 29, 2013, 07:27:24 PM
Sternbergia sicula and lute in my meadow.
Not a big difference!

 :o Great as ever Franz !
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on September 30, 2013, 08:34:04 PM
Sternbergia sicula and lute in my meadow.
Not a big difference!

Fantastic sight, Franz !
You have an excellent excuse not to maw the lawn !!  :P
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: ikizzeki on September 30, 2013, 08:49:36 PM
Sorry for asking but how can I differ S.lutea from S.sicula?
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 30, 2013, 11:00:51 PM
According to a recent study, you can't. See:

Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society, 2011, 166, 149–162

Too large to post but available online.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on September 30, 2013, 11:21:19 PM
According to a recent study, you can't. See:

Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society, 2011, 166, 149–162

Too large to post but available online.

The abstract for this paper says :

Abstract/Summary
The phylogenetics of Sternbergia (Amaryllidaceae) were studied using DNA sequences of the plastid ndhF and matK genes and nuclear internal transcribed spacer (ITS) ribosomal region for 38, 37 and 32 ingroup and outgroup accessions, respectively. All members of Sternbergia were represented by at least one accession, except S. minoica and S. schubertii, with additional taxa from Narcissus and Pancratium serving as principal outgroups. Sternbergia was resolved and supported as sister to Narcissus and composed of two primary subclades: S. colchiciflora sister to S. vernalis, S. candida and S. clusiana, with this clade in turn sister to S. lutea and its allies in both Bayesian and bootstrap analyses. A clear relationship between the two vernal flowering members of the genus was recovered, supporting the hypothesis of a single origin of vernal flowering in Sternbergia. However, in the S. lutea complex, the DNA markers examined did not offer sufficient resolving power to separate taxa, providing some support for the idea that S. sicula and S. greuteriana are conspecific with S. lutea.


http://centaur.reading.ac.uk/22205/ (http://centaur.reading.ac.uk/22205/)
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on October 01, 2013, 11:32:33 AM
Sternbergia lutea flowering in my garden. The flowering is much better than usual due to a warm and dry summer.

Poul
Title: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: ikizzeki on October 01, 2013, 09:00:34 PM
Thanks you both.. I hope upper two answers are for me.. ???
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on October 02, 2013, 09:06:21 PM
Sternbergia sicula have just finished flowering outside in the rockgarden (picture from previous week)
Now Sternbergia lutea takes over this week ....
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: hadacekf on October 03, 2013, 06:22:46 PM
Kris,
your Sternbergia sicula grow as the natural habitat, Superb!
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on October 03, 2013, 06:40:00 PM
Kris,
your Sternbergia sicula grow as the natural habitat, Superb!

Thanks for the compliments Franz !
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: udo on October 05, 2013, 06:44:51 PM
Nice Sternbergias from all,
here some in my garden:
Sternbergia sicula from Corfu
Sternbegia greuteriana, stoloniferae form with unknown orgin,
the smallest flowers from all
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: tonyg on October 07, 2013, 02:57:21 PM
A good year for sternbergia here.  The last to flower are these which I was given under the name Sternbergia lutea angustifolia.  Whatever you cal them, they're doing OK!
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: David Nicholson on October 07, 2013, 03:08:15 PM
A good year for sternbergia here.  The last to flower are these which I was given under the name Sternbergia lutea angustifolia.  Whatever you cal them, they're doing OK!


........ and my usual rubbish year here, but I'll keep trying, I'm a glutton for punishment.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 07, 2013, 04:29:28 PM
A good year for sternbergia here.  The last to flower are these which I was given under the name Sternbergia lutea angustifolia.  Whatever you cal them, they're doing OK!
They are doing OK Tony, but very different from what I have under that name (originally from Mike Salmon). However,  I suspect it is a fictitious taxon
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: jshields on October 09, 2013, 11:51:28 PM
They are doing OK Tony, but very different from what I have under that name (originally from Mike Salmon). However,  I suspect it is a fictitious taxon

Tropicos  <  http://www.tropicos.org/NameSearch.aspx?name=cyclamen+luteum&commonname= (http://www.tropicos.org/NameSearch.aspx?name=cyclamen+luteum&commonname=)  >  only lists subsp. graeca and sicula, so I think "fictitious" is the operative  word.

I need to go see if my S. lutea have started blooming yet.  None have started yet anywhere close to the house.

Jim
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: David Nicholson on October 10, 2013, 09:20:54 AM
Tropicos  <  http://www.tropicos.org/NameSearch.aspx?name=cyclamen+luteum&commonname= (http://www.tropicos.org/NameSearch.aspx?name=cyclamen+luteum&commonname=)  >  only lists subsp. graeca and sicula, so I think "fictitious" is the operative  word.

I need to go see if my S. lutea have started blooming yet.  None have started yet anywhere close to the house.

Jim

 ???  Two completely different genera here Cyclamen (which counts graecum as one of it's own) and Sternbergia which has lutea. I'm all in favour of lumping but that's rediculous ;D
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 10, 2013, 10:57:04 AM
Recent studies at Kew - morphometric & phylogenetic - suggest that S.sicula & S. greuteriana should be included in S. lutea which  is described as a very variable species. I recall seeing a reference to "S. sicula graeca" years ago but cannot recall where.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Mike Ireland on October 10, 2013, 11:54:12 AM
Sternbergia lutea have been wonderful this year, very dry & warm, must suit their needs.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: jshields on October 10, 2013, 03:00:09 PM
???  Two completely different genera here Cyclamen (which counts graecum as one of it's own) and Sternbergia which has lutea. I'm all in favour of lumping but that's rediculous ;D

That's what happens when I try to do two things at once!  Or maybe it's just time taking its toll on the little grey cells!

Jim
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: jshields on October 10, 2013, 03:06:02 PM
Kew lists Sternbergia lutea with three subspecies:
graeca
greuteriana
sicula
at:
http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/advsearch.do;jsessionid=FC7FF6025E4C84C046382B3AABF94814 (http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/advsearch.do;jsessionid=FC7FF6025E4C84C046382B3AABF94814)

Which is what I was after in the first place.

Sternbergia lutea seems perfectly hardy outdoors here.  S. sicula did not survive outdoors here in my rock garden.

Jim
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 10, 2013, 03:30:04 PM
I think this is more up-to-date:

http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/synonomy.do?name_id=288111 (http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/synonomy.do?name_id=288111)
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: David Nicholson on October 10, 2013, 07:03:32 PM
That's what happens when I try to do two things at once!  Or maybe it's just time taking its toll on the little grey cells!

Jim

Know the feeling well Jim!
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on October 10, 2013, 08:42:19 PM
Sternbergia lutea have been wonderful this year, very dry & warm, must suit their needs.

It looks great Mike !
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Pauli on October 12, 2013, 05:33:36 PM
The smaller types of S. lutea from Crete are always the last here
And a picture of my Sternbergia bed, between a south facing wall and a street. Here are only surplus plants and I do not actively propagate them any longer!
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Pauli on October 14, 2013, 03:53:28 PM
Another two, looking very similar, both small types
first received as greuteriana from a nice forumist - I am not convinced about the name
second a miniature from Karpathos, also a gift from a forumist
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 14, 2013, 05:07:53 PM
Herbert- in my (limited)  experience S. greuteriana is variable in  size, but none of the three plants I have under that name (from Crete,  Karpathos & an unknown source) looks anything like yours.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on October 14, 2013, 05:12:32 PM
Herbert- in my (limited)  experience S. greuteriana is variable in  size, but none of the three plants I have under that name (from Crete,  Karpathos & an unknown source) looks anything like yours.

Me to Herbert, I was thinking that I not recognise them as greuteriana ........
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on October 14, 2013, 05:16:40 PM
S. greuteriana as showed recently in Kent ....
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Pauli on October 15, 2013, 05:54:54 AM
Kris,

these plants I would also call greuteriana (stamens as long or longer than flowers).
But unfortunately I do not have such plants in my collection ...  :'(
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on October 15, 2013, 06:39:56 PM
Kris,

these plants I would also call greuteriana (stamens as long or longer than flowers).
But unfortunately I do not have such plants in my collection ...  :'(

Neither do I Herbert .... :'(
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 15, 2013, 06:58:17 PM
Kris,

these plants I would also call greuteriana (stamens as long or longer than flowers).
But unfortunately I do not have such plants in my collection ...  :'(
I assume you are relying on Pasche & Kerndorff (2002)  but this criterion has been rejected by Gage & Wilkin (2007) [among others] on grounds of variability.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on October 17, 2013, 11:27:08 AM
I got this labeled as Sternbergia greuteriana many years ago. If I remember correct Herberts greut1 is offset from this plant.

Real greuteriana or not - it performs very well in my open garden every year.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Pauli on October 17, 2013, 05:23:48 PM
You are right Poul and I am very happy with this free flowering miniature!

By the way, quite a show of Crocuses you showed!
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: johnralphcarpenter on October 17, 2013, 05:37:05 PM
Sternbergia lutea just beginning to open here in Kent.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: johnralphcarpenter on October 23, 2013, 02:57:01 PM
Sternbergia lutea now fully open and thriving in our mild autumn weather.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on October 23, 2013, 07:03:42 PM
Sternbergia lutea now fully open and thriving in our mild autumn weather.

Ralph, Nice to see S. Lutea flowering in the open garden!
Does it flower so well every year?

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: johnralphcarpenter on October 23, 2013, 08:35:19 PM
Yes, I bought a load of them from Bulb'Argence some years ago and they have been very reliable. But I do have a very sunny garden in a dry area.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on October 23, 2013, 08:37:25 PM
Yes, a bought a load of them from Bulb'Argence some years ago and they have been very reliable. But I do have a very sunny garden in a dry area.

 I am trying hard not to be green with envy - it's not always easy.......
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: brianw on October 23, 2013, 10:47:42 PM
This photo was taken a month ago in a neighbours garden. I assume it is S. lutea var. angustifolia. The garage wall with trellis faces south but the bulbs are in a very sheltered position. The clump is thinned out every few years.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on October 23, 2013, 11:12:15 PM
This photo was taken a month ago in a neighbours garden. I assume it is S. lutea var. angustifolia. The garage wall with trellis faces south but the bulbs are in a very sheltered position. The clump is thinned out every few years.

Good grief! Is there  no end to my suffering?
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on October 24, 2013, 06:25:33 AM
Good grief! Is there  no end to my suffering?

I'll bet they feel the same when they see you grow Erythronium, Dactylorhiza, Crocus pelistericus etc. in your Aberdeen garden. ;)
Anyway I do. The size of my Dactylorhiza flowers are about one third of yours! Not to mention the numbers.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: johnralphcarpenter on November 08, 2013, 08:33:53 PM
Fresh clumps of Sternbergia lutea keep opening in the garden.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Melvyn Jope on November 15, 2013, 08:52:49 PM
Sternbergia were looking good in the Peloponnese last week, the first photo is of S.lutea at Harouda the second S.lutea at Kastania and finally  flowering at home now Sternbergia Molly Dawson's late. Does anyone know who Molly is/was?
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on November 15, 2013, 09:18:52 PM
Sternbergia were looking good in the Peloponnese last week, the first photo is of S.lutea at Harouda the second S.lutea at Kastania and finally  flowering at home now Sternbergia Molly Dawson's late. Does anyone know who Molly is/was?

They look just perfect Melvyn ! Seems that you had a very good trip ....
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Melvyn Jope on November 15, 2013, 09:41:43 PM
Sternbergia were looking good in the Peloponnese last week, the first photo is of S.lutea at Harouda the second S.lutea at Kastania and finally  flowering at home now Sternbergia Molly Dawson's late. Does anyone know who Molly is/was?
I have just been told by Mary Ridley that Molly Dawson was a staunch member of the Wimbledon AGS group and an excellent grower and shower.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on November 15, 2013, 09:48:18 PM
I have just been told by Mary Ridley that Molly Dawson was a staunch member of the Wimbledon AGS group and an excellent grower and shower.
Aha! Mary to the rescue - nice to know who the people are behind these plant types, isn't it?
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on November 16, 2013, 06:22:00 AM
Melvyn, it is nice to see Sternbergia in the wild, thanks for showing us. It certainly was a successful trip!

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on November 25, 2013, 11:09:52 AM
After replanting my Sternbergia lutea ex. Iran to another site the leaves of all the bulbs look like this. Last year all of them looked perfectly healthy with a uniform green colour.
I fear it is virus, and if that is correct the plants must have had a 'hidden' virus for some time and the change of growing conditions has made the virus visible.
Is it virus or is the colour changing in the leaves caused by different nutrients levels in their new site?

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: Gerry Webster on November 25, 2013, 01:38:41 PM
Poul - the leaves on my plants of S. lutea angustifolia (sometimes) look like this & have done so for several years.  I suspect virus but the plants remain vigorous & floriferous.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: pehe on November 25, 2013, 06:43:40 PM
Poul - the leaves on my plants of S. lutea angustifolia (sometimes) look like this & have done so for several years.  I suspect virus but the plants remain vigorous & floriferous.

Gerry, I have made the same observation on Sternbergia Autumn Gold, (a cross between lutea and sicula) and on another clone of lutea. I have discarded both of them with regret as they were very floriferious. The last one I had for several years and it multiplied and flowered exceptionally well.

I wonder if a virus could be beneficial to the plant like some fungus often is?
The above observations could indicate that.

Many plants can live unaffected with a virus. There are several researches on the genus Galanthus which indicates that many of the old named clones in fact are virus infected. But even if a virus don't harm a specific plant or even may be beneficial I don't like the thought of having virused plants. Who knows if they can infect other genus like crocus with disastrous results.
I think it is better to be safe than sorry, so I never buy 'broken coloured' tulips and I discard plants if they show signs of virus.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: PeterT on November 28, 2013, 07:18:40 PM
I agree with Poul in discarding virused plants.
However  there are other causes which can present similar symptoms,  ranging from nutrient imbalances,  to irregular water supplies, aphid, slug  and even frost damage.
I am not experienced with Sternbergia, (though I have a few), and even less so as regards virus in the genus but I have grown enough bulbs that I question whether this is virus induced.
 
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: jshields on November 28, 2013, 07:40:21 PM
I agree about avoiding problems with virused plants.  I had serious such troubles 40 years ago!  However, if -- and these are important "if" -- if there is an isolated growing chamber, and if the virus-infected bulbs are truly rare and valuable, growing from seed can sometime produce virus-free offspring.  If you have virused plants never use their pollen on a healthy plant.  Just often enough to be a real problem, viruses can be transmitted in the debris accompanying the pollen, even if inside the pollen there are no virus particles.

Also, heat-treatment has been used to inactivate viruses in certain cases, and tissue culture can also sometimes produce virus-free materials if the tissue can out-grow the viruses.

Jim
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: PeterT on November 28, 2013, 07:56:29 PM
are the roots healthy and the basal plate firm? is there any sign of insect life between the leaves? could the bulbs contain narcissus fly?
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2013
Post by: johnralphcarpenter on December 01, 2013, 07:38:37 PM
Into December, and Sternbergia lutea keeps on flowering.
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