Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => NARCISSUS => Topic started by: Hans J on March 01, 2008, 02:41:06 PM
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Hi ,
Today on the first day of this month a pic from my
Narcissus asturiensis
a real gnom with a heigth of 5 cm
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And here is Midget - not quite so small, but worthy of inclusion
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And cyclamineus - first time I have had a patch. I hope they come up again next year, as previously once seen, never again
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Keep them cool (not necessaruily damp) and shaded over summer Arthur.
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Great front shot, Hans.
I'll have to move my cyclamineous once I get my shady bed made
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Narcissus cyclamineus - first time too. I hope they come up again next year too !!!
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Narcissus cyclamineus - first time too. I hope they come up again next year too !!!
Very nice Franz.
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Franz it's interesting to see all of yours are the stove-pipe type ie with out the frilly mouth
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Aww! N. cyclamineus is so cute!
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Here are some Narcissus bought last year but I think some are wrong when I cross reference them with Daffseek http://www.daffseek.com/ (http://www.daffseek.com/) I'm a little concerned about the old term miniature which is now out of date
'Inca'
?'Little Beauty' x2
?'Little Beauty' supplied with above as LB
obvallaris
'Pledge'
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'Fairy Gold' - again! but it's a little beaut.
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Wonderful pics.
None of my narcissi are open yet in the garden :(
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Armin in the garden are Trena, cyclamineous, Mite, Mitzy, Tete .., Jet Fire, many in bud and many more in pots all flowering now. Like my Crocus the small Narcissus sit outside until the flower opens. I then bring them in under glass
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And over here it is planting time, not flowering time! ;D
Our autumn Horticultural Society Show was over the weekend (Dahlias, Roses, Veggies, plus the usual cut flowers and floral art etc) and the Doffodil Society had a raffle. I was lucky enough to win second prize, so there are now 14 new varieties to be potted (more than that in the actual prize, but some were duplicates of what I already own). Daffseek shows there should be some interesting flowers in spring. 8)
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Here are some daffodils from today
1.&2. Narcissus cantabricus x bulbocodium - sterile hybrid
3. Narcissus cordubensis
4. Narcissus tazzetta frome Crete
5. Narcissus spec. from the Sierra Morena
Gerd
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Nice little series Gerd !! 8)
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Next year I'm not missing out, I'm going to grow more species Narcissus, and of course more Crocus; and of course more Iris; and of course more Primula. Does anyone know if it's possible to fit elastic sides to an aluminium greenhouse ;D
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Very nice daffodils everyone. :D
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Armin in the garden are Trena, cyclamineous, Mite, Mitzy, Tete .., Jet Fire, many in bud and many more in pots all flowering now. Like my Crocus the small Narcissus sit outside until the flower opens. I then bring them in under glass
Mark,
thats o.k. how you treat your small narcissi. But you will certainly agree with me your spring in Ireland is 4wks ahead of continental Europe climate.
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This winter our coldest night was -5C with day time temperatures mainly in double figures. Any overnight snow has melted soon after sun rise. This must be the future but how will winter flowering bulbs cope ith the change? Maybe we will have to buy freezer cabinets to chill our collections
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Nice Narcissus pseudonarcissus at Walsingham, Norfolk on Feb 12 2008.
Followed by fantastic drifts of Narcissus cyclamineus at Wisley on 21 Feb.
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Beautiful moody pictures, Tony.
It would seem the cyclamineus enjoy the conditions shown very much. Sometimes a picture is better than a long description of the needs of a certain plant.
Gerd
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Fantastic pictures, tha third one especially.
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Anne when you are over I can take to see cyclamineous like that
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Has anybody for me a ID for this plants :
They comes from the Vosges Mts. in France ( around 1000 m altitude )
I think it is a N. pseudonarcissus -but which ssp. ?
On this places flowers 1000's in April + May - unbelievable !
Maybe I will find time .....
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Hans
In his book on wild daffodils John Blanchard lists the N. pseudonarcissus from the Vosges mountains as var. platylobus. He then comments that the variation within populations of N pseudonarcissus is so wide that ascribing them to separate varieties is hardly worth it. So, it all depends on whether you are a "splitter" or a "lumper"........... ;D ;D
Having just returned from seeing a number of wild daffodil species in Portugal and Spain, I'm definitely a lumper!!!! I will get around to some postings in due course.......
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Having just returned from seeing a number of wild daffodil species in Portugal and Spain, I'm definitely a lumper!!!! I will get around to some postings in due course.......
Oh, good! We'll be looking forward to that, David.
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Hi Dave ,
Thank you for this information -it is interesting !
The problem is always the same : the plants in the wild have no labels ....it was much easier for us !
Gerd : are this plants similar like your plants from the Eifel ?
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A reminder of Gerd's pix from this page, February 25th 2008:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1302.msg34231#msg34231
Here is his pic of Narcissus pseudonarcissus - of wild origin from the 'Eifel'
[attach=1]
I think these petals are fatter, more full, whereas Hans' are slimmer and more twisted...( or do they just look slimmer because of the spiral twisting?) I only see a little twisting on Gerd's variety :-\
The two pix to compare:
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
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Thank you Maggi !
Yes they look a bit different :D
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But are these differences, illustrated from only a couple of examples from each population, really significant enough to give them subsp or varietal names? The splitter would undoubtedly agree, but the lumper would not........
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Quite so, David: I believe that these plants, while displaying some differences, are most likely simple variations on a theme.... beautiful though, aren't they, and interesting to see how they do vary ?
After all, we are comparing them, for that pleasure, are we not, not seeking to write a taxonomic paper... at least, I'M not! :P
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I'm looking forward to seeing more pictures from the wild too. Meanwhile, here are some out now in Yorkshire. First 'Coo', and 'Mitimoto, a bicolour. Then 'Little Spell', at about 20cm high, and 'Pequenita' at 12cm.
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Lastly two from my stable!
Narcissus cyclamineus x watieri at 6cm, and supposedly watieri x cyclamineus at 10cm. If this is truly that cross, where did it get its twin flowering from? I like it but the florets are crammed together a bit on the stem, so that not all the petals can reflex.
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The first time I have flowered this one I like it, its about 10 cm.
Narcissus bulbocodium RRW 88-32
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Gorgeous Ann, I think my favourites are mitimoto and pequenita, but then again your cyclamineus x watieri is a stormer.
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I like it too Derek, very pretty.
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Has anybody for me a ID for this plants :
They comes from the Vosges Mts. in France ( around 1000 m altitude )
I think it is a N. pseudonarcissus -but which ssp. ?
On this places flowers 1000's in April + May - unbelievable !
Maybe I will find time .....
Hans,
for me yours look like Narcissus pseudonarcissus ssp. Lobularis.
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Armin ,
Do you think that ssp. lobularis is synonym with platylobus ?
I can not found good informations ....
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Hans,
the Narcissus taxonomy is still a mystery for me.
I really don't know. Here is an elder photo ssp. lobularis.
Gerd, do you have a any thoughts?
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the Narcissus taxonomy is still a mystery for me.
Armin ,
for me the same !
I have the book from Blanchard and from Bannert -but there in both not good descriptions - no precise locations ....
I have not any firstdescriptions of this two species .....
My hope is also Gerd - maybe ....
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Derek, happy to "fix" your double post! Is "RRW" the Wallises?
Anne, lovely babies.... like your own the best, of course!
The twin head is a puzzle.... who knows what mysteries are at work. As the flower ages, might it/they expand enough to reflex more fully, do you think?
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Only an afternoon away from home and now I found this pseudonarnissus subspecies-discussion ::)
I am with Maggi and Dave - I am convinced that a lot of subspecies (and species) of the section Pseudonarcissus were named because of small differences in local populations (and in need of a taxonomic revision).
Also it might be possible that some northern daffodil populations (Eiffel, in Belgium, Vosges, in GB) have originated from garden escapes. So naming the progeny will be difficile.
For me personally Narcissus pseudonarcissus for the Vosges and the Eiffel plants is sufficient.
Gerd
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Gerd ,
Thank you for your opinion .
I dont know from other locations - but those populations in the Vosges are never garden escapes .... you have to see it !
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Fantastic pictures!
These pics are from this morning. My friend and I, checking any field and any mountain from Segovia, we have discovered this little population of trumpets daffodils. I can't say which species is it. Very far from the next trumpet daff population, in a very different inhabit comparing with the others...
The field were absolutely destroy by cows, they ate all the Narcissus, extracting the bulbs indeed!!! One of the reasons could be that the farmers include Urea in cow's food (I don't know why) which it seems it makes cows go hungry, eating even the worst and difficult grasses. Very few Narcissus still alive..
Just to make it more confused this diabolic genus Narcissus, here this amazing big trumpet with 25 cm stem, corona 3'5 diameter, 3'5 corona-tube and 1cm perianthe tube with green segments.
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Hans,
Some daffodils escaped in medieval times - a long period for building large populations.
Gerd
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Just to make it more cofused this diabolic genus Narcissus, here this amazing big trumpet with 25 cm stem, corona 3'5 diameter, 3'5 corona-tube and 1cm perianthe tube with green segments.
Narcissus pseudonarcissus ssp. confusicoronatus :-X
Rafa,
Thank you for pics and information!
Gerd
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I know someone who must have Little Spell wrongly labelled. Theirs is a tall plants and if I had known how small it was would have had it years ago
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Mark, that one I showed is the first flowering from twin-scaling. Maybe it will be bigger when more mature. Daffseek is not much help when they just say 'less that 32.5cm', but the distinctive shape of the flower looks right.
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Anne I think the Daffodil people need to introduce a new catagorie for true miniatures. Your first image shows a real cutie
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Very imaginative name Gerd!, but it was just a Narcissus asturiensis.
But is extremely interesting to us as it could be the first location in Segovia province.
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Rafa,
This N. asturiensis is very far from those plants which I cultivate here (origin unknown). But I must confess, I never saw them in the wild and so do not know the variation which is possible. Blanchard reported larger tetraploids.
How far is the next known location of asturiensis from your place?
Gerd
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Maggi, in answer to your question yes friends of many years.
Derek
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Exactly Gerd! These plants are the big tetraplid trumpets from Narcissus asturiensis species group. The nearest population is here in my village! but in the border side with Avila province. It is 67 km far from this one and I think it is the same robust variety that grows in my village described as villarbildensis (Villar de Bildas in Asturias, is the type localitie for this robust variety of this tetraploid N. asturiensis).
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I know someone who must have Little Spell wrongly labelled. Theirs is a tall plants and if I had known how small it was would have had it years ago
Do you think it's wrongly spelled? ;D
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::)
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I wonder if the population of asturiensis mentioned by Rafa is the source of the so-called large forms of asturiensis in cultivation, such as 'Wavertree'?
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By the way, I apologise for not putting the scientific names in italics, but I haven't worked out how to stop it once I've started!
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Anne: for names in italics, click the italics symbol, then type the name between the code marks which come up, or, type the name, highlight it (by leftclicking and running over it ) then click the italic button....in these ways only the name comes up italicised.
Interesting point about the derivation/provenance of 'Wavertree'
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Brian Duncan has a large range of asturiensis in his garden. Guess who's going to take photos on Friday!? :D
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Brian Duncan might know about the provenance of F.R. Waley's asturiensis seed....??
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The sun came out and a number of daffs were begging to be photographed.
1 Narcissus cordubensis from seed collected Grazelema Spain
2 Narcissus cordubensis detail
3 Narcissus intermedius
4 Narcissus intermedius detail
Now the tiny ones
5 Narcissus rupicola
6 Narcissus rupicola detail
7 Narcissus bulb conspicuus from the seed exchange
8 Narcissus jacetanus from seed collected by the Taylors
9 Narcissus jacetanus detail
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What a great well grown pot of Narcissus cordubensis!
Also fine pics of the others.
Gerd
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John, wow 8)
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John, that's a wonderful potful of N cordubensis - the scent must fill your bulb house.
I've had a few small bulbs of the species for a while, but they don't seem to do much and haven't flowered yet.
Well done!
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Beautiful John, but is that 2 flowers on your rupicola?
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Some of new daff in the garden
Narcissus calcicola
Narcissus cantabricus
Narcissus cordubensis 3
Narcissus cordubensis 4
Narcissus minor
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and some horticultural daff, not rare
Narcissus cyclamineus 'February Gold'
Narcissus cyclamineus 'Peeping Tom'
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Great shots John and Dominique.
I actually saw 'Tete a tete' for sale in the local Woolworths supermarket today. Couldn't believe they were forcing it so early. It's just into the beginning of autumn here. They're usually early, but not THAT early!! ::)
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Wow - I stayed clear from white fever, but yellow fever is getting hold of me now I think !
Great plants John and Dominique - these large bunches of cordubensis are real stunners !!! :o
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Wow - I stayed clear from white fever, but yellow fever is getting hold of me now I think !
Great plants John and Dominique - these large bunches of cordubensis are real stunners !!! :o
Me too Luc.
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All these jonquilla group are confusing me. I grew these a long time ago as something else (can't remember what), but the consensus so far is N. jonquilla. I'd welcome any comments.
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Dominique, I've just seen your beautiful pics of 11th March. How do you get N.calcicola to flower so freely? Is it covered (kept dry) in summer? I've never had so much flower from my own plants.
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I phoned Brian today and he will look at the forum tonight. He knows about Waverley also
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That's stunning Anne :o
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But what is it ???
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Hopefully he will post the info himself
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But what is it
You said it yourself, Anne.... these jonquils are confusing! ???
It's easier when you have a few different ones out at the same time. Otherwise you can go round in circles thinking that two separate types are just one because some flowers are immature etc......I'm working on a private method to tell them by perfume... :-\ I'll let you know in a year or ten when I've worked it out...... ;)
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These ones are very smelly.
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All jonquils are smelly in our collection! It's the flavour of the smelly I'm working on! 8)
I could have a stab at N. cordubensis.... but I wouldn't put my money on it from a photo :-[
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Tsk! All these yellow things that look alike. If only they had...oh, I don't know...some little green markings that would help differentiate them from one another. ;D
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Tsk! All these yellow things that look alike. If only they had...oh, I don't know...some little green markings that would help differentiate them from one another. ;D
Sounds like a converstion between a snowdrop and a daffodil: "all you yellow things look alike to me". Reminds me of a quote from Huggy Bear in Starsky and Hutch when he mixed them up. "Well you white folk all look the same to me".
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Ian the BD's response to any yellow flower he doesn't know the name of is.... "nice daffodil" :-X
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Here's a wee narcissus flowering in my lawn now, and Narcissus graëllsii less than 2" tall.
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it's very true that all lookalike especially the bulbocodiums
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Dominique, I've just seen your beautiful pics of 11th March. How do you get N.calcicola to flower so freely? Is it covered (kept dry) in summer? I've never had so much flower from my own plants.
Gerry,
I have a pot of security in my bulb frame but that pic shows Narcissus calcicola (from around Coimbra) in the rock garden in the middle of stones without any protection, in full sun.
Yes, many Narcissus of jonquilla or bulbocodium groups look alike the same but they don't flower at the same moment, they are not high , yellow of the same manner, leaves are different, stamens too. All jewels for whom want.
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Anthony, all your pix today have been too big.... scrolling needed ..... [attach=1]
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I have a pot of security in my bulb frame but that pic shows Narcissus calcicola (from around Coimbra) in the rock garden in the middle of stones without any protection, in full sun.
Dominique,
Thanks for the reply. Congratulations! It's a really beautiful clump of my favourite narcissus.
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You tell 'im Maggi.
Going back to my Narcissus ex Miniature bulbs I can now breath a sigh of relief that my 'Pledge' is correct. In the last couple of days it has changed colour. The photo clearly shows the colour change. If he had said on his web site and catalogue that their was a colour change I would have waited before commenting
'Inca' is also changing colour. Again he should have said there will be a colour change. It's taken two weeks for these two Narcissus to begin to change. 'Inca' before and now below
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Here are my 'Fairy Gold's looking out over the garden.
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Anthony, all your pix today have been too big.... scrolling needed ..... (Attachment Link)
Sorry Maggi, having to do them betweeen classes in school as my computer is knackered. Haven't tried loading on to Vivienne's laptop yet. Must get someone out to fix the thing. :'(
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ID required.
Can anyone identify this Narcissus,sorry it is a bit battered from the storm. I got it as Eystettensis (Queen Anne's Double Daffodil)
but Daffseek does not agree. Any ideas?
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I saw some chap called Ian Young last night at Lancaster, giving a lantern slide discourse about bulbous plants. He was really rather good and I think he could become well known in time.
After the gales we had a very pleasant day and a couple of wee daffs opened enough to get a snap.
1 Narcissus calcicola grown from SRGC seed. It is very tiny at about 7-8cm and I lik the way the buds are pendant before opening.
2 Narcissus calcicola detail
3 Narcissus jeanmondii I grew from exchange seed and it is even more dwarf at about 5-6cm in height. I don't know this species and would be glad of any information about it.
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Could the double narcissus be telamonius plenus - I have something similar, but am not at home and don't have a book to check the spelling. :-\
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'Pencrebar' I believe and for comparison it and 'Queen Anne's' are below
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That looks like it Mark, but the colour is lighter than mine. What height is 'Pencrebar? it is not on Daffaseek,my plant is about 12cm to 15cm high and the flower is about 4cm in diamater
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That's about right Michael. Here it is on Daffseek
http://www.daffseek.com/query-detail.php?value1=Pencrebar&lastpage=1 (http://www.daffseek.com/query-detail.php?value1=Pencrebar&lastpage=1)
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Mark,how did you get it on Daffseek,? it would'nt come up for me
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ID required.
Can anyone identify this Narcissus,sorry it is a bit battered from the storm. I got it as Eystettensis (Queen Anne's Double Daffodil)
but Daffseek does not agree. Any ideas?
Michael it looks a bit like N. Dick Wilden. It happened I received a few days ago a bunch of them and they are just opening.
Here's a picture from Daff Seek:
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I started collecting Narcissus 3 years ago (have about 60 now), but around here (Ontario Canada) I have found any of the smaller species mentioned here. Are they hardy in colder climates? I notice most of the pictures are of plants in pots - are they easy to grow in the ground?
Thanks a lot for the pics. I still have 2 - 4 feet of snow on my Daffs. Heaviest snow fall in some 50 years.
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Narcissus jeanmondii I grew from exchange seed and it is even more dwarf at about 5-6cm in height. I don't know this species and would be glad of any information about it.
John,
This is a High Atlas version of Narcissus bulbocodium var. nivalis named by Fernandez Casas. (Narcissus Update from John Blanchard in AGS Bulletin Vol.66, No. 3/1998)
Gerd
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ID required.
Can anyone identify this Narcissus,sorry it is a bit battered from the storm. I got it as Eystettensis (Queen Anne's Double Daffodil)
but Daffseek does not agree. Any ideas?
Here is a picture of Dick Wilden today taken from the vase.
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Here are some daffodils from this week
1. + 2. Narcissus nobilis primigenius
3. Narcissus bulbocodium long corona
- for all of these thanks to Tony G.
4. + 5. Narcissus bulbocodium from the High Atlas Mts. - outside
Gerd
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Wow I like that nobilis primigenius. Must look out for it in catalogues this summer
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Is one of you Narcissus specialists going to give Robert (reply 99) a response??
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I've been trying to look at Daffseek on and off for the last couple of hours but can't get it to download. Don't think it's my computer as other things are working fine-could someone else have a go please and see if they have a problem?
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Here are some daffodils from this week
1. + 2. Narcissus nobilis primigenius
3. Narcissus bulbocodium long corona
- for all of these thanks to Tony G.
Gerd
And they are both in flower here too. I only wish I could report so well of the narcissus you sent me Gerd. One has been ravaged by narcissus fly while the N x susannae has remained dormant this year. As I reported earlier, the bulbs are fine and firm but no roots or leaves :( ???
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Gerd, thanks for that information about N. jeanmondii.
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Robert, is not easy to try and give you answer as I have no experience of your conditions, however deep snow cover would be an advantage when trying to grow some of the smaller species.
In my experience most narcissus will die if their bulbs get frozen but deep snow cover should protect them from that.
As long as you can give them good drainage and a dry summer rest I would give some of them a go.
The main reason that i do not grow more of them out side is that many of the narcissus are in flower during our winter and they would take a physical battering from the weather.
Try something like Narcissus bulbocodium first.
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Hitch the Galanthus grower from NY state told me this year he is having problems with his Galanthus. The problem is they grow at the right time of year but they are under the snow. They then rot and die. Can you grow them under something that will keep the snow off? I suggest you join daffnet and pose the question with them
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Love that Narcissus nobilis primigenius. Lovely form!!
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A few shots from the greenhouse today:-
First a couple of Narcissus x tenuior, (bought as?)
and then a couple of Narcissus 'Minnow'
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Can anyone give me a positive ID for this Narcissus rescued from an old garden.
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his Galanthus. The problem is they grow at the right time of year but they are under the snow. They then rot and die. Can you grow them under something that will keep the snow off?
Mark - I doubt snow is the problem and this iis a much damper climate than New York State. I have seen Galanthus peek up here in November and then get covered by snow and ice until late March, even into April. My "bloomers" are under snow at the moment, ferocious winds and going below 0c tonight.
johnw
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That's a very elegant daff, Mark - is it really bicoloured, or is that a trick of the light?
I have had species daffodils such as bulbocodium nivalis and hedreanthus outside in troughs which freeze in cold weather, and they've been OK for several years. I think it would be repeated freezing and thawing that would kill them. I agree try some of the bulbocodiums first.
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No trick Anne. It's the wrong time of year but when you come to visit we'll go rescue some from the old garden near me
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I now know how a meadow pipit must feel having spent a few weeks rearing a cuckoo. :( I have a pot of seeds from the SRGC forum labelled Narcissus cuatrecasassii 1/2003. The first flowers opened this week and look like N. rupicola. I now have three forms of the little gem, only one of which came labelled as such (the other was labelled N. scaberulus).
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Well Anthony, don't be in too much of a rush to re-label it as to my mind they are so similar as to be indistinguishable except, here anyway, cuatrecasasii flowers about a month earlier than rupicola. They both seed very well with fat pods and in every way behave exactly the same so I'm inclined to think they are VERY closely related. James S. Wells in his book "Modern Miniature Daffodils" is quite disparaging of the former but then received two wild collections and was given a subsp of it which all apparently perform much better, so maybe it's one of these which I/we have.
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I have two pots labelled cuatrecasasii Lesley and they are not only different in colour (the cuckoo is lemon yellow, the other a deep rich yellow) but the cup shape in the imposter is totally different too. The deep yellow one has a lovely rounded goblet, whereas the imposter has a cone-shaped cup with a wavey edge.
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Anthony,
I have a picture of N. cuatrecasasii on my website.
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Here are the two I have. I will take more pics over the weekend. The first one is the cuckoo.
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I think mine is like yours Franz but I'll need to wait several more months before I can check properly. This is a pic I took about 6 months ago.
[attachthumb=1]
I remember it as being a little more gold than that but not sure now. And now I look at Anthony's again, maybe mine is a cuckoo as well! >:(
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Well Lesley, if it is a cuckoo, it's an exceptionally pretty one!
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Wow. Isn't it just beautiful!! Elegant flower to it. Haven't seen it before I think. Thanks for the pics.
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My second flower is what I expect to see for cuatrecasassii. The cuckoo is definitely rupicola according to Blanchard.
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I have a picture of N. cuatrecasasii on my website.
Franz - A marvellous website and an extraordinary Rhodothamnus in your garden!
johnw
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Here's my unknown possible species Narcissus again. Can someone tell me what it could be please
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Here is Narcissus nevadensis
Thanks to Tony G.
Mark: if your daffodil was from northern Spain I would say N. nobilis, but if it is a cultivar I can't tell you a name - sorry ???
Gerd
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Mark, looks a lot like N.nobilis var nobilis in the MBC catalogue, but that is only a guess as I know very little about them
Cheers,
Michael.
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nobilis seem to be correct. I was at Brian Duncan's today with Anne Wright. He has an identical Narcissus that he has labelled as N. n. primagenius
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Here's a wee taster of Brian's miniatures. He has just flowered the first miniature double. I'm not really in to doubles, split coronas or pinks but I adore this little beauty
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Mark, does Brian Duncan produce a List please?
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Not yet David. I hope I'm still about when he does
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Not yet David. I hope I'm still about when he does
You going somewhere? ;D
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Mark, does Brian Duncan produce a List please?
David
If you Google www. ringhaddy daffodils they say they have taken over Brian Duncan daffodils!!
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Yes, Nial bought Brian's collection of Narcissus. Brian then decided to start breeding miniatures
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Ah! I see. Thanks for the Link Alan.
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Here's some more pics for comparison. First the cuckoo, now positively identified as a vigorous form of Narcissus rupicola. Then with cuatrecasassii form comparison. Finally N. calcicola.
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Anthony I know you posted late but your photos are very big
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Can't fathom Vivienne's Windows Vista. :-\
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Vista or Photo Shop?
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Here's a couple of Narcissus from the old garden near me
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Mark
Second daffodil is excellent - I would certainly take my trowel on the next walk.
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Here in my garden today, having survived 2 days of light snowfall, my first bulbocodiums. Can anyone supply a more definitive name please.
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Vista or Photo Shop?
Did I say Vista? Mmm. Anyway, using aforementioned, I fiddle around with the size using Microsoft Office Picture Manager. The default seems to be Windows Photo Gallery which is as useless as an udder on a bull. ::)
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Vista or Photo Shop?
Did I say Vista? Mmm. Anyway, using aforementioned, I fiddle around with the size using Microsoft Office Picture Manager. The default seems to be Windows Photo Gallery which is a suseless as an udder on a bull. ::)
Anthony
Photo Gallery is what I use to crop and resize my images.
Top right is says 'Open' - click on this
Next click on 'Microsoft Office Picture Manager', then 'Edit Pictures' The rest as they say is easy....
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Narcissus chipper.
Narcissus bulbocodium
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That 'Chipper' is very cute, don't think I have seen it before.
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Michael
Is N. Chipper one of your own crosses? Is the colour true? A very nice plant
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I found some info on RHS pages: http://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/registerpages/daffdetails.asp?ID=10962
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Thanks Maggi for the info on Chipper. Wonder why it is not well known
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Thanks Maggi for the info on Chipper. Wonder why it is not well known
I expect you will be able to acquire it in nearer future, because a Dutch narcissus specialist has
taken it into his collection.
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Is N. Chipper one of your own crosses?
I got it from MBC and they are offering it this year again, the colour may be a little pale with the poor light,but not much.
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Here is Narcissus moschatus from the greenhouse today (excuse my hand in pic 2)
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That is lovely David. I was able to get a bulb from Marcus Harvey in Tasmania, last year and after it flowered it set a seed pod so I hope to have several ore quite quickly. I think it's spelled without the r
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Of course it is, thanks Lesley, that's my senior moment for tomorrow, I've had all todays! ;D
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Lesley,
You should have several more of them pretty quickly anyway... they multiply for me like weeds, but rarely flower. I have both pseudonarcissus ssp moschatus and ssp obvillaris (the latter being the Tenby daffodil) but only the former has flowered for me, and then only rarely. They can produce offsets prolifically though, at least they do for me. Mine were from seed grown stock, but I have had them for enough years now that it is not just because they're seedlings. Moschatus has flowered for me a couple of times, while obvillaris never. Absolutely beautiful flowers on the moschatus. Great pic David. I think mine is a slightly more slender form, without as much flaring at the trumpet tip, although I perhaps should go and check my pics before saying that! ::)
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Here is Narcissus moschatus from the greenhouse today (excuse my hand in pic 2)
David,
Beautiful flower, isn't it?
But why inside a greenhouse? This species is as hardy as ordinary other trumpets are.
I had a fine group of them but they didn't flower well after they were overgrown by a shrub.
Gerd
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Here is Narcissus moschatus from the greenhouse today (excuse my hand in pic 2)
David,
Beautiful flower, isn't it?
But why inside a greenhouse? This species is as hardy as ordinary other trumpets are.
I had a fine group of them but they didn't flower well after they were overgrown by a shrub.
Gerd
Gerd, I only have one bulb and in England we often quote the laws of the great prophet Sod, so Sod's law says that if I planted one bulb in the garden I would surely loose it! ;D When I have a few more I shall plant them out.
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Here is one of my favourite Narcissus hybrids - triandrus x tenufolius or it could be tenufolius x triandrus.
A good doer
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If that is Rannveig and Bob's N. 'Solveig's Song', Arthur, then the seed parent is
N. bulbocodium var. tenuifolius and the pollen parent N. triandrus subsp. pallidulus
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Maggi
Not 'Solveig's Song' - I obtained from the Mid-Anglia Bulb Sale as tenufolius x triandrus.
Would Ian like a few bulbs?
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Arthur, thank you, you are most kind, I am sure he would be delighted to have a bulb or two....always nice to have something new . He has a similar cross he made, and this cross is the one known as N. x cazorlanus which can occur in the wild....... be interesting to compare characteristics.
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Arthur,
Interesting flower. Must admit I didn't realise that those two species crossed. Makes a delightful result doesn't it! 8)
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That is lovely David. I was able to get a bulb from Marcus Harvey in Tasmania, last year and after it flowered it set a seed pod so I hope to have several ore quite quickly. I think it's spelled without the r
I understand that moschatus is a sterile clone and therefore cannot set seed.It has no known wild populations and has not been re-collected.
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Isn't moschatus a subspecies of pseudonarcissus? That would mean by definition that it couldn't be a single clone. What I have under that name was given to me as seedlings (along with seedlings of ssp obvillaris) rather than as adult plants or divisions.
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I thought I should post a couple of pics of what was given to me as moschatus. These were apparently grown from seed by the person, who has since moved to Sydney and I have no contact details.
The second picture is taken with a flash, which is why it is so different. I thought it showed some clearer details though, which is why I include it.
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That is lovely David. I was able to get a bulb from Marcus Harvey in Tasmania, last year and after it flowered it set a seed pod so I hope to have several ore quite quickly. I think it's spelled without the r
I understand that moschatus is a sterile clone and therefore cannot set seed.It has no known wild populations and has not been re-collected.
So what have I got then? It looks exactly like all the illustrations of moschatus and Marcus is very reliable with his naming. Mine is a little more pendant than those of Paul, above and the outer petals are a little closer to the corona.
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Isn't moschatus a subspecies of pseudonarcissus? That would mean by definition that it couldn't be a single clone. What I have under that name was given to me as seedlings (along with seedlings of ssp obvillaris) rather than as adult plants or divisions.
Paul, I saw yesterday your Narcissus which was called N. cernuus which is (I hope) synonym with
N. pseudonarcissus ssp. moschatus.
The one with more pendant flowers called N. moschatus is synonym with N. pseudonarcissus ssp. alpestris.
I think my picture looks like your pictures and is different from what I showed in (Febr.) Lisse Flowershow.
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I thought should I write that post about moschatus it will only stir things up and then thought oh what the h..l!
Davids picture is clearly of a plant similar to that shown in Blanchards book although a different colour his picture is yellowish. But is different to that shown by Paul which is different to that shown by Luit. Yesterday I saw a large pot of 'moschatus' from a commercial source which looked like Davids. Some botanists have classified alpestris as the same species but it is half the height of moschatus and totaly different in its flower shape. I have alpestris from Mike Salmon for 10 years which is between the two in form and stature.
What is clear is that they are all a white(ish) trumpet daffodils and a joy to the splitters.
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Tony here is a picture of Narc. moschatus, wich for me is clearly the same as David's plant (pendant)
and so different to Paul's plant.
This picture was made in January (see postings under Lisse Midwinterflora)
I cannot see much different in the Narc. cernuus I sent this morning and Paul's picture(s)(not pendant)
The only difficulty exists by taking pictures at different lights and grown outside or inside.
I made mine of N. cernuus after a period of hail and snow and much wind.
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and this is Narcissus alpestris - much smaller and tender.
Unfortunately dearly loved by narcissus flies.
Gerd
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Here is a strange N. triandrus - forma helicopterus ;D
Gerd
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Gerd
Was it grown from your own seed? It has an ethereal quality that I like.
It is difficult to buy seed or bulbs of N. triandrus, so if you have a source, I would like to know the details please.
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Gerd
Was it grown from your own seed? It has an ethereal quality that I like.
It is difficult to buy seed or bulbs of N. triandrus, so if you have a source, I would like to know the details please.
Arthur,
I got some N. triandrus of wild origin (N. Spain) a long time ago - they looked different. Also I raised some plants from seeds of these.
Because I am very disorderly (sometimes) I am not able to tell you the
origin of the depicted plant.
Concerning seeds etc. I'll p.m. you.
Gerd
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and this is Narcissus alpestris - much smaller and tender.
Unfortunately dearly loved by narcissus flies.Gerd
Gerd is this the one Blanchard mentions in his book, being only -20 cm. and difficult to
keep in culture?
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moschatus, alpestris and 'Colleen Bawn' all look the same to me. The first two are out now in my garden but 'Colleen' is still in bud
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Luit
I agree yours looks like moschatus as described and it is very like alpestris.Here is a picture of alpestris in the wild.It is only 20cm tall therefore half the height of the moschatust but is certainly not tender.This picture is at Castllel jon de sos growing in a damp meadow and is covered by snow in winter . The form at Cerler only a few miles away but which has been described as different is at a ski resort which shows how cold it gets .I attach a picture of the habitat.It is growing in thousands above the trees.
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My 'Colleen Bawn' have their noses pointing straight down
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and this is Narcissus alpestris - much smaller and tender.
Unfortunately dearly loved by narcissus flies.Gerd
Gerd is this the one Blanchard mentions in his book, being only -20 cm. and difficult to
keep in culture?
Luit,
Yes, it is.
Tony,
I mean tender concerning that it does not grow as well in my garden as N. moschatus does - not in relation to cold hardyness.
Gerd
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Gerd
Was it grown from your own seed? It has an ethereal quality that I like.
It is difficult to buy seed or bulbs of N. triandrus, so if you have a source, I would like to know the details please.
Arthur, you will find some in this catalogue
http://www.simplyspecies.co.uk/index.html
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Gerd, I understand.I have only a few bulbs and grow them in pots in the greenhouse but they get frozen if we have a hard frost,which is not veryt often
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Tony, thank you for these beautyful pictures of N. alpestris.
Very informative!
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Arthur, I have some seed from this year of N. triandrus ssp triandrus (formerly albus) which I could send now if it would be useful to you. Also sending today David, Iris barbatula and a couple of others.
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Lesley
Would love some seed. Sending my details by PM
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So.... did we work out whether mine is or isn't something-or-other? What actually SHOULD I be calling it then, if it isn't quite what anyone else has? ??? ::)
I'm confused. (Nothing unusual there of course!! ;D)
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Paul
I covered it in my post-a white trumpet dafodil as opposed to a yellow one. I am trying for seed on my alpestris so I will send you some if it sets.They have had daily rampant mating so I live in hope.
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I remember having read in Ian's Bulb Log years ago that Narcissus willkommii needs
to be planted deep.
After some experiments it seems to work, I only don't know how deep I planted them.
Here is the result! :D 8)
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A couple of Narcissus pseudonarcissus which until a few months ago were so far under another plant they were utterly swamped - still at least release from it's clutches has let them flower and I can see them! they may be ssp pseudonarcissus but I'm not certain and any label is long gone.
Sue
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Here I like to show some (really)old Narcissi which I took at the
Connoisseur Collection.
I hope you agree with me, I put them specially into the Narcissus Topic too.
Narcissus DIV 1 Princeps E.Br. '04
Narcissus cernuus DIV 13
Narcissus DIV 4 cernuus Plenus Lentefl. '94
Narcissus DIV 4 Irene Copeland
And to compare with the earlier shown N. moschatus and N. alpestris (Tony W.)
two pictures of:
Narcissus DIV 1 Colleen Bawn Av. Bu.'02 2
Narcissus DIV 1 Colleen Bawn Av. Bu.'02 3
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Sue,
they look like N. pseudonarcissus ssp. lobularis, even I'm not sure "ssp. lobularis" is still valid name.
You might be right with ssp. pseudonarcissus!
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Luit,
thanks for showing us this old cultivars.
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Paul
I covered it in my post-a white trumpet dafodil as opposed to a yellow one. I am trying for seed on my alpestris so I will send you some if it sets.They have had daily rampant mating so I live in hope.
Tony,
So it comes down to that we aren't sure? I think that is how I read your other posting (if I'm reading the right one) .... that each is different to the other and we can't be sure what is what? Or that they're all now alpestris? Or am I misreading it?
Sorry for being thick, but I am still unsure what I have or don't have now. I guess I should just label it as "N. pseudonarcissus ssp white unknown" to be on the safe side?
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I've just heard from Ivor Fox, Miniature Bulbs, and had a long chat with him about Narcissus.
My Narcissus 'Emcys', although it doesnt look like the plant on Daffseek, it is correct. Cyclamineous hybrids at shows have had their 'ears' pinned back to make them look good.
'Emcys' borrowed from Daffseek http://www.daffseek.com/ (http://www.daffseek.com/) ;)
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Lovely white narcissus. :D
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Hello,
can't resist to post this close picture of N.pseudonarcissus ssp. major (hispanicus).
For me this is the real "Osterglocke" (trumpet daffodil)
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Mike Miniature Bulbs have listed 'Emcys' again this year.
Armin that's very nice but what's with the blue? Is your camera sick?
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yes ;D
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Looks the same as N. hispanicus Maximus (pp 9, Conn. Coll),
don't you think Armin?
I like it too.
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Hello Luit,
N. hispanicus Maximus is the old name.
They are the same.
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Here's a newly flowered hybrid of Narcissus obesus x triandrus, with its seed parent to the left. It seems to be a chunkier version of most of the bulbododium/triandrus crosses that are in circulation. My Solveig's Song are only just budding up.
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Very nice , Anne.
Did you enjoy your Irish jaunt?
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sorry for being thick, but I am still unsure what I have or don't have now. I guess I should just label it as "N. pseudonarcissus ssp white unknown" to be on the safe side?
[/quote]
thats how I see it,all these names seem quite mad to me.it seems every slight variant gets a new name.
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Maggi, we had a wonderful time and enjoyed great hospitality and generosity from the people we visited. Brian Duncan's daffodils are achingly good - years ahead of mine! I've been out busily cross pollinating today with renewed vigour. Mark's garden was full of interesting things, and he kindly took us to see other gardens full of treasures. A memorable week. Strange thing - the Archaeological visitor centre we stayed at was closed the whole of the Bank Holiday, so when exactly do people visit?
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Tony,
all these names seem quite mad to me.it seems every slight variant gets a new name.
Mad? I think the correct term is commerce.
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I'll slot these in here as Anne has just mentioned my garden. Who wants to grow big ugly Colchicums
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Mark, what's wrong with you? All that grass just over the fence and not a flowering bulb or a geranium in sight.
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Lesley it crosses my mind every time I walk across it to the shops. I would love to extend the garden width into that area but the hoods wouldnt leave it alone
After taking a year out here's your Muscari. Is it naturally minute?
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If Brian wasnt so far away I think I would spend all my free time at his garden. His house is 1.5 hours away. I still havent shown the photos I took. They, the photos, are not up to my standard due to the howling wind. Has Ian been to his local group in Omagh?
Here are some goodies from my garden taken today while dodging in and out of the rain. I'm over snowdrops now even though 4 are just into flower this week. Who cares they all look the same! Much the same as daffs - all yellow
my 'Colleen Bawn'
moschatus/alpestris I see no difference
alpestris/moschatus what's the difference?'
Douglas Bank' a wee short stem thing
'Elka'
'Englander' I hope
'Gipsy Queen' x cyclamineous - I want more! It's so small and cute
x johnsonii?
x johnsonii/x kennellis/'WP Milner' - do you know which this is?
'Queen of Spain' the true one now I hope!
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Hi Mark. You could edge it with Aciphyllas ;D
The Muscari in bud looks about right I think. It should develop fully to about 10 or maybe 12 cms.
Here's mine.
[attachthumb=1]
I still haven't been able to give it a name.
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Maybe I'll ask on Monday and see what they say. If I got it I would probably keep it as shrubs because the bad boys would pull bulbs out
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If Brian wasnt so far away I think I would spend all my free time at his garden. His house is 1.5 hours away. I still havent shown the photos I took. They, the photos, are not up to my standard due to the howling wind.
Come on Mark, who cares.
I make all my pictures of Narcissus in howling winds. 8)
Show them. This is information! ::) ::)
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Tony,
Thanks for the clarification re my white daff.
Mark,
Shame on you.... "over snowdrops now" :o .... I'm shocked and disappointed. You'll be struck off the white fever register if you're not careful! ;) ;D
Glorious daff pics by the way..... there's a few of those I'd like to be growing myself!!
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Luit, the photos from Brian's miniature breeding programme are mostly out of focus. The day was very cold, 5C with a wind chill, and very dark sky. If I was off today I would go again as we have bright sunshine and a small breeze. My next day off is Friday afternoon and Sunday. Saturday I'm in Dublin for the AGS show
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The day was very cold, 5C with a wind chill, and very dark sky.
That's not a good excuse, Mark. ;D ;D :(
So were almost all the days until now when I made my pictures.
So we are hoping for pictures after next Friday-Saturday????
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I suppose I will post them when I get home from work
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Hot from the garden here are two from Keira Bulbs. Both at 'Gipsy Queen' x cyclamineus have have 3cm flowers tip to base. One I shoed a couple of days ago
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They look gorgeous Mark !
Here's two dwarfs from me :
1) N. rupicola
2) N. calcicola 'Idol'
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My Narcissus Rupicola from seed.
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Lovely pics fellas
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It might be of interest for Narcissus specialists:
I showed some historic Narcissi in the Topic Weekly Lisse Flowershow.
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Luc - where did the N.calcicola 'Idol' come from? It's rather nice.
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Can someone tell me what the double white Narcissus is that grows wild and flowers (very late) on the Orkney and/or Shetland Islands. I think it is scented too. My late mother had it growing well many years ago and if possible, I'd love to find it again. It flowered here in November (May).
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Wonderful pics. I have got to get N. rupicola one of these years, as it is a delightful flower. I was mortified last year to lose watieri after growing it for a number of years successfully. I do so like those smaller cup style species.
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Gerry,
N. calcicola 'Idol' came from Miniature bulbs - as did the rupicola I posted. Referring to the discussion in another thread, they look ok and healthy :D
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Lesley,
The double white narcissus you mention is probably the double form of Narcissus poeticus. It was common around here (north-east Scotland) in my youth (which was awhile ago) in cottage gardens. It flowers very late here May, possibly in to June. It is later than the single form.
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A belated welcome to the Forum Roma. And thank you for the note abut the double N. poeticus. It sounds just right. So now all I have to do is find it somewhere.
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Hi Lesley,
is this the one you're thinking of?
[attachthumb=1]
If so it is available in Australia so you should be able to get it into NZ; have you asked Marcus if he has it?
cheers
fermi