Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => General Forum => Topic started by: partisangardener on December 01, 2021, 05:39:34 PM
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Living soil is a term which includes symbiotic relationships found in natural habitats. Including mykorrhiza, animals and the relationship between different plant species.
Since Corona began, my moveable floating gardens increased in number and beauty.
A simple form is this one, floating on my rainwater tank. This one is from beginning of August and the picture is about end of October.
It comes in handy when you have cuttings or seeds which would need maintenance. I just put them there and everything takes roots or germinate.
In addition it looks good and no animals drown there.
I had started when Corona came a new bog garden. Since it is so easy and takes next to no time for care I started now at every available space now a lot of these floating gardens. Especially for plants which take a lot of expertise to grow. Like Cypripedium and alpines.
The best thing is, you can leave it for month without anybody taking care.
https://forum.carnivoren.org/forums/topic/36569-patchworkmoorbeet-erweiterbares-moorbeet-im-baukastenstil/page/11/
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I would like to try this in my new small pond but I suspect it would have to be protected from birds stealing the moss for nesting in the spring. It is fed from water butt overflow at present. Now to find some suitable seed. "Dacs" seed themselves in my pots in the garden but nothing else at present. I only really had water lettuce floating on it this year, which I got for nothing.
Brian Whyer, Thames valley.
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I had on this special one no birds acting. Maybe it is a bit irritating that the island moves when a bird is landing on it.
I have now about forty water filled 90 liter buckets with my islands.
But the ones shown in the link just a few meters away have a netting. My blackbirds are pretty bad here. Since the one shown exists only since last August, I will see how it works in the next nesting season. I am also working on solutions which are not as ugly as the usual ones.
I am too already working on ceramics which would hide the plastic optic. Pretty similar to the ones I put around my bog in the link.
Here are some of the plants thriving therein:
Cypripedium tibeticum (low ph)
Cypripedium reginae (medium to low ph)
Pogonia ophiglossoides
Epipactis palustris seedgrown there in acidic ph
Dactylorhiza praetermissa (neutral ph)
Drosera binata
Drosera anglica
Drosera intermedia
Drosera filiformis
Drosera linearis*+seeds
Pinguicula grandiflora
Sarracenia alata
Sarracenia rubra
Sarracenia purpurea dwarf form
Sarracenia leucophylla seedgrown and plants from BG Prag
Darlingtonia californica mountain population Oregon seed grown
Chamaedaphne calyculata nana seedling
Andromeda polyfolia
Vaccinium vitis-idaea
Vaccinium myrtillus
Vaccinium uliginosum
Iris chrysographes seed grown black form
Iris setosa
Mentha requienii (weedy)grows extremely well, very hardy there but overgrows everything
Fritillaria meleagris
Fritillaria camtschatica grows very well, pretty low plants without ferilizing
Primula veris red form (seedlings)
Primula integrifolia
Primula matthioli
Trillium grandiflorum
Soldanella hybrid
Gentiana acaulis
Gentiana pulmonaria
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There is no substrate below the waterline, so it is always aerated. It simulates the conditions of a natural seep, or a rock constantly washed by water.
Even plants which grow usually under quite dry conditions grow quite well. Especially alpines and mosses do well.
The water tank and evaporation on the moss cools this environment (could be interesting for city climate, if used a lot)
The soil conditions vary of course with the thickness of the substrate. Through seeds I try out what works best. for a desired species.
To get different mycorrhiza I took small pieces from interesting habitats to to inoculate different floating pieces.
The thickness of substrate is only one method to vary moisture. Another one I use, is flat pieces of styrofoam, stones or even plastic onto the soaked fleece.
So in result I get different moisture levels without much substrate.
This system is maybe adabtable for a lot of problematic eco-systems
https://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=18727.msg424682#msg424682
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Cypripedium reginae was for many years in my old bog garden. 2020 in spring I transplanted it in a new setup. The original 2 olants had made two seedlings.
Not jet flowering. These flowered this year.
Growth was slow but good in the past years. But in the new setup with continuous water supply it seemingly exploded.
It is so dense I will have to make three out of it.
first picture 2020
second 2021
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Cypripedium reginae was for many years in my old bog garden. 2020 in spring I transplanted it in a new setup. The original 2 olants had made two seedlings.
Not jet flowering. These flowered this year.
Growth was slow but good in the past years. But in the new setup with continuous water supply it seemingly exploded.
It is so dense I will have to make three out of it.
first picture 2020
second 2021
What a great result!
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Rectangular rafts tend to stay not level if build up too high. As a solution for one like the Cypripedium acaule container I tried this solution.
I fixed a slab of granite with some wire to the bottom.
like this or for the slender rectangular ones.
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At the Moment is the 90 liter container full. So my plant-raft floats on top.
In general I recommend round buckets and rafts. They wont topple until being very high.
But if you use small pieces for keeping plants apart or not waste Styrofoam a small slab of granite or suchlike as ballast underneath comes in handy.
You can create small landscapes even with Bonsai, which are more easy to maintain than the old type. And it is no big deal to have them for a short time as a table decoration inside, in a nice ceramic bowl.
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This one was a birthday present a year ago. It floats on a small pond for two season now. Birds did visit it but the growth of the moss is too strong for them.
Additional it clings quite well to the cloth.
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The last generation is round an on top some border out of Styrofoam, nailed to the raft with toothpicks. Finally a cover of Micro-fleece and in the middle a wick from the same material.
The fleece shields UV rays from the Styrofoam and after very short time the Moss cover will do the same job for ever.
The row of tooth pic surrounding it serves the purpose to fix moss onto the rim, until it fixes itself there through its growth.
Some mosses have strong root like structures, some not like sphagnum. But it sticks quite well after a time and in sour habitats I prefer it.
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The advantage of floating substrate is, that there is always a very thin layer of water there, which is always saturated with oxygen and anaerobic microorganism have no chance.
It is not the water supply alone. Excess water flows always into the main water body without much organic material.
Your setup has varying oxygen levels, which I try to avoid without much maintenance.
The quite excessive water body will keep for month without intervention or rain and if it rains no water will suffocate the substrate.
I quote that here because there seems to be the chance of misunderstanding the idea.
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for the cypripedium, you put what thickness of soil.
and only peat?
and for Trillium grandiflorum?
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I have 15 cm for Cypripedium tibeticum and a bit lmore than 20 cm for C.reginae.
Trillium grandiflorum is in the same trough as C.reginae. Seedlings grow already in less than 5cm. I think this is sufficient for this species.
With my method the waterreservoir-funktion of the substrate is needless. Like in the thriving mats of vegetation on waterfall rocks
When I tear apart the Cyps coming spring I will give them not more than 15 cm and some will do with less than 10.
I did not expect them doing that well.
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Hi.
I have just read many of your original postings in 2014 by using Google to translate, when you constructed the bog area. Questions in my mind are where the water comes from. Is it a natural source? Is it there all year round or do you have to control, or add to it? Sunlight is not obvious in many photos; is it in a naturally shady area that maybe slopes? In later photos a fence appears. Is this the same garden/area?
Apologies for all the queries, but it is such an interesting concept. I doubt I have enough rain water for a large area but on a smaller scale I might manage something next year. I still have a large round hole that was supposed to be a pond a few years ago. ;-)
Brian. Thames valley UK. (Lots of chalk and gravel around)
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These are different gardens. The first on from 2014 is a patchwork type with ordinary filling. Sand , lime free gravel,peat apart from what you see.
worked quite well, but I had to water it sometimes when I had longer dry periods and it took a lot of material.
It had a floating part in a small pond. In the end I had to give away the more interesting plants. Only the Cypripedium were still there when Corona hit. And of course the material and more ordinary bog plants and mosses. This one was most of the day sunny, only partly (time and space) shaded by fruit trees not too close.
The already ingrown one from beginning of Corona is in front of the place I live at. Only sun in the late morning until 13 o clock. To make up for the poor light I constructed at its north side a mirror-front to increase the light, which works sufficient.
The plastic troughs are pretty moveable and are not always at the same place. Some are in front of my flat. Most are at a friends place in a ex military compound . Nearby, but much more rain. These had this year excess water and there I have 3000 liter rainwater reservoir.
This area slopes in some places. Area offers every possible sun or shade.
If growth is not sufficient I place another plastic trough at a better spot. Then put the raft on some foil and then carry the water to the new one.
Alternatively I can exchange the rafts between the different buckets.
All water I have is rainwater collected from housetops or solar panels. Our tab water is good, but has a somewhat high Ph . I had yet no need to use it.
For special plants and in case of emergency I have sulfuric acid.
If you prefer plants from acidic spots I would do it elevated in your area, then it does not get contaminated from the surrounding soil. The military compound is on a chalk mountain.
But there are a lot of interesting plants possible on chalky soil.
The small birthday present (8) floats on a pond near the military compound and has a lot of chalk stones around and in the water.
But Sphagnum species and Sarracenia still grow well on such a floating raft. Much is to be tested and these raft conditions allow much more than one would think. This would not work in a pot, chalk level would accumulate.
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Axel this is a really interesting thread, please keep us updated.
Floating fen and bogs are widespread in nature so I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that this works. If I can think of somewhere in the garden to put one, I'll give it a try.
Best wishes from Wales.
Tristan
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One of the advantages of this method, it doesn't require a long term space of a garden from the beginning,a empty water bucket is swiftly moved. Comparative little work and little care needed, compared to a regular seedbed in the garden.
A friend urged me to sow on these islands Pulsatilla occidentalis which is probably a bit difficult.
Apart from some orchids I disseminated these and some Gladiolus palustris, Primula maximowiczii and a lot of other plants.
Each different raft has only a few seeds of each species because different mycorrhiza is to be expected. Transplanting is very easy. The soil is very fluffy. Anything I pick up will grow on without pause on another raft.
This is my experience as far.
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If I succeed I just give him some of these floating seed beds.
My next goal is to make rafts out of empty plastic bottles. Grown in they should look as natural as the other ones.
Much more accessible than hard Styrofoam.
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Some plants need more light and a cooler habitat.
My first bog arrangement has only 6 hours sunshine In the afternoon until evening there is only shadow from the house.
So it keeps quite cool through natural evaporation. A mirror background provides enough light, and doubles the scenery.
Now it is two years old and I can harvest moss and other plants for the new rafts.
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Total of the first floating bog arrangement. The piece of Styrofoam in front is for my knee.
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Hi again
Am I correct in assuming the absorbent fabric/fleece, apart from being used as a "wick", is only used to hold the pots onto the flotation material? It does of course also provide a growing base and background for mosses etc, outside of the pot itself. I could also just wire the pot to the float, for practical purposes. I have found a source of the fleece fabric in a local dress fabric shop; ~£8 a metre, 1.5 metres wide. In green (and many other colours) of course ;-)
Merry Christmas to all, Brian
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There are no pots or suchlike in this system. All (really all) plants grow on the flat surface of the floating Styrofoam above the waterline. That is what supplies the optimum growing conditions and the high oxygen level at the roots.
To cut holes into Styrofoam to insert pots is not nearly as good.
For a starter the colour is a bonus. But moss and the plants will cover whatever its colour is.
The starter thing on my first post, has apart from moss some peat on it. When I had to sow some seeds, I just pushed some of the moss aside, added some peat and the seeds on top. No pots needed a natural growing hummock.
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I started some seed beds with sparsely some sand grains on top. Germination was very good, even some Orchid germinated there. For mycorrhizal fungus I spread some living roots of Erica on top.
https://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=18290.0
After the second season I put this late autumn some peat on top, Growth was not sufficient in my opinion. Especially Gentiana seedlings grew very slow.
But Drosophyllum was going quite strong without any substrate apart from the fleece. It was very hungry at the beginning, so I placed the whole thing outside and the little natural food there kept it going.
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At the moment I experiment with alternative rafts. Lots of empty plastic containers pollute our environment and are easy to access. (Here in Germany not that easy)
My idea is to put them into a synthetic pillowcase and put the fleece and some substrate on top. The moss and other plant cover will protect it of UV ray degradation and these floats could accumulate lots of CO2 while they last and look good too.
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Bog plants in pots, often have problems with anaerobic degradation in lower parts of the container.
The oxygen-free zone in a natural bog is usually much further down than in our containers.
To keep the oxygenated state in your substrate I can offer several more solutions.
You could use containers with grill structure (I do not know the term in English) to ventilate the substrate.
You could use some mesh-bag as a container. I experiment at the moment with cut off legs of old trousers, stitched up at one end.
They probably tend to be overgrown by mosses and will hopefully look quite natural then. Synthetic material will last longer. Moss will shield it from UV-ray.
Addition of structure matter like heather twigs helps too for aeration in these situations. Live Sphagnum in strands up to the surface works on the long run too (heads up of course). Only in the bottom half it works for a limited time, because it disintegrates soon and looses structure.
Long dead strands of Polytrichum ssp. moss work for a very long time. They are very resistant and provide ventilation for a long time.
They work quite good for me alive, but you end up soon with a clump you cant divide without a chainsaw or a laser beam.
I have just started a list (not complete yet) what species grow there on my floating gardens.
Helonias bullata
Helonopsis orientalis (breviscapa)
Cypripedium tibeticum (low ph)
Cypripedium reginae (medium to low ph)
Cypripedium acaule * (very low ph)
Pogonia ophiglossoides
Epipactis palustris seedgrown there in acid ph
Dactylorhiza praetermissa (neutral ph)
Polygala paucifolia*+seeds
Drosera binata
Drosera anglica
Drosera intermedia
Drosera rotundifolia
Drosera tokaiensis
Drosera filiformis
Drosera linearis*+seeds
Pinguicula grandiflora
Pinguicula vulgaris
Sarracenia alata
Sarracenia rubra
Sarracenia purpurea dwarf form
Sarracenia leucophylla seedgrown and plants from BG Prag
Darlingtonia californica mountain population Oregon seed grown
Chamaedaphne calyculata nana seedling
Andromeda polyfolia
Vaccinium vitis-idaea
Vaccinium myrtillus
Vaccinium uliginosum
Ocalis acetosella
Iris chrysographes seed grown black form
Iris setosa
Mentha requienii (weedy)grows extremely well, very hardy there but overgrows everything
Fritillaria meleagris
Fritillaria camtschatica grows very well, pretty low plants without ferilizing
Erythronium dens-canis
Narthecium ossifragum
Polygonatum hookeri (dwarf)
Primula integrifolia
Primula matthioli
Primula rosea
Soldanella hybrid
Gentiana acaulis
Gentiana pneumonanthe
Trillium grandiflorum
Selaginella involvens
Adiantum raddianum (high and low Ph)
Gymnocarpium dryopteris
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Pictures from the construction site
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At the moment I experiment with alternative rafts. Lots of empty plastic containers pollute our environment and are easy to access. (Here in Germany not that easy)
My idea is to put them into a synthetic pillowcase and put the fleece and some substrate on top. The moss and other plant cover will protect it of UV ray degradation and these floats could accumulate lots of CO2 while they last and look good too.
One pillow case is already filled with some Coca Cola bottles and some waterbottels both plastic and already covered with some moss. Alas snow is on top, so no picture. The next set is already waiting. I let it float in another pillowcase, to see how they take heavy weather.
Possible that I get more of a similar size until spring. Maybe a simple solution for capturing excessive CO2 out of the atmosphere lies in the plastic garbage we already have.
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Because it was asked for, I have an update to explain some of my systems in more detail.
The first islands were frameless or with flat Styrodur sections (2-3 mm attached with toothpicks, except for the right Cypripedium thibeticum part, which has a 15 cm frame, which I glued with construction glue and stabilized with bamboo skewers (rods from garden bamboo).
For the rain barrel part and some others I only put moss cushion parts on it. When I had to sow something, I pushed the moss aside and applied substrate and seeded it there.
Most of the frame parts are narrow sections and really only necessary when they are outside and there is a risk that a heavy rain will wash everything away before it has stabilized.
If you have enough moss cushions, you can simply make a frame out of it at the edge and fix it with toothpicks. They then catch washed-off seeds etc. and also grow relative quickly with their rhizoids. I still do these and it seems to work well.
Sphagnum works quite well as a cushion (even if it has no rhizoids), but if you want to settle individual moss threads you can also tap in half a toothpick at short intervals and then weave the moss in. I cut curtain rods plastic packing into strips.
But I found the idea with the toothpicks better when I thought of it because I couldn't get hold of those transparent plastic strips anymore.
Covering the whole system with acrylic glass plates against heavy rain are too unwieldy in the long run with the amount I have and they would also be expensive if you don't get a few sections for free like I did.
So I also cut with 2cm Styrodur-plate strips and framed these seadplates afterwards. So that the seeds are not washed away.
That works too. Only the Drosophyllum has died because I probably pinched off roots with the flat edge strips (it was on the edge). I'll start some new again soon.
Now I lay out short pieces of toothpicks at intervals of 5-10 cm before I install edge strips made of Styrodur.
A good but slow-growing moss for the border is Riccia fluitans.
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since i read you, i have been looking for suitable polystyrene pieces, but they are less and less used (and so much the better for the planet, no doubt).
I also have this problem that the water holes in my garden dry up every summer almost now and I have completely lost my sphagnum moss and the plants that went with it.
maybe this is a solution for some plants:what minimum raft size did you make?
I found a small piece of styrofoam about 15 cm in diameter...
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15 cm is quite ok. Maybe cushions filled with plastic bottles are more suitable for you.
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Some ideas to cover the plastic containers.
For free standing ones.
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One for partly submerged ones.
I have more variations, but until spring the will have to wait.
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It’s not much but here is my little container pond
I used to have a large stock tank pond with fish and I loved it so much! Maintaining my pond was my favorite thing to do. We have since (https://onplanners.com/templates/monthly-planners) moved to a temporary rental and this is helping with my pond itch :)
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Cute :)
I have a fitting solution in my pipeline. Construction in my head not yet finished. There is still some thinking to be done to have as little as possible waist pieces.
Just a belt around the rim. Maybe someone else will have a solution. If mine comes into reality I will post it.
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The Cypripedium reginae, has to be divided, because it grew too good. So I started another mortar bucket. There will be another big one like this and several small divisions untill I star dividing.
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Now I started to divide my Cypripedium reginae.
A bit more than half of it now beside the mortar bucket. The rest is still at the old place.
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The bigger parts are set into square buckets, the same size as the original one.
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The smaller ones are a bit more inventive. To get more material on a round island I choose some old military underwear. Cut of the legs and sewed the leg opening and filled it with topsoil from a root plate.
Moss grows there very quickly. When the Cypripediums are in flower again it will be all green.
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Some look more advanced. When the underwear rots away, the roots of the plants and the moss will hold it together.
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Cyprpedium reginae on two Islands start to grow.
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This Cypripedium was divided Beginning of March. I accidentally broke off the tip of a new shoot. Since then it stayed on one of my special islands in living Sphagnum amongst a lot of twigs and shoots I try to root there.
I had no big hope but anyway I tried. There things like this don't need any further attention.
Today nearly a month later I plugged it up and it had changed a bit. It is at least a third longer and has grown a waist thinning and looks quite healthy.
I am no longer certain that it will die. What do you think?
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Make the floats as fat as you can get.
Snow and growth of the plants should not be underestimated.
The habitat of my Cypripedium tibeticum was today 5cm above the float. there was only 10 cm substrate above the waterline.
There was also some old Root on top which soaked over the wintertime.
I had to put another 5cm plate underneath.
Losses are not yet visible. I keep you updated. Apart from the C.tibeticum everything is already good looking. I dug a bit and stopped after the first green.
It was firm and already green.
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Two sprouts of C. tibeticum already appeared. I hope they stay.
A third one appeared. I took the chance and removed the Sarracenia leucophylla rhizom wich I parked there, last spring before the Cyps appeared.
Too near as always.
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I had to put nets all over. flying Dinosaur started to devastate fresh and old Islands.
They started and now its over.
Cypripedium acaule is alive.
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Matthias gave me some Lilium gloriosoides to make another attempt
https://shop.lilium-tc.com/
Since Chen times I had not seen a single bulb. These were poor specimens compared with the quality Matthias offers.
With some application of small amounts of Borax I hope to get a chance for flowers and a long term cultivation.
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A simple way to place a netting is to stick 4 to 6 thin pipes (metal, plastic or bamboo)into the ground.
Cut some half-rings out of bracing wire (I use 3,8 mm) and stick it in the tubes
This is an easy framework for a netting.
I fix it at three sides with some hooks (metal or sticks from the hedge)
The front part is weighed down with some metal rod for easy access.
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Trillium grandiflorum flowers now on two of the rafts. Cypripedium reginae has recovered from the dividing.
I have cross-pollinated all of them.
Last year some mouse or so stole the fruits. But the seedlings from the year before have already their second leaf.
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From Cypripedium acaule is one back.
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Reginae still going strong after the division.
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My latest addition to the floating gardens are some D.majalis. Two groups living together with some pieces C.reginae.
I hope they will cope with the conditions. It is 40 days ago since I became them.
Cuttings from Daphne tangutica from last autumn lived till last week. As i removed them since they lost their leafs, there was no more roots visible.
Next time I use some of the few calciferous islands I have now.
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Cypripedium acaule developed quite well. The other one next to it did not turn up.
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The bigger parts are set into square buckets, the same size as the original one.
Cypripedium reginae in this bucket is already 70 cm high.
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Cypripedium reginae on most islands. Apart from one island where I buried it too deep. After I dug it up it does not look too good. One bud rotted away and the other one looks quite bad too.
Maybe it recovers.
This single one looks perfect
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Lilium canadense (seeds 2021) grow their first leaf. The germiating bulbs were very small.
Leafs are quite big for these dwarf bulbs.
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Iris chrysographes will bloom soon in the new setting.
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A friend let me have some seeds from gladiolus palustris from his garden ex Königsbrunner heath near Augsburg.
Quite a lot germinated. One was quite different, all white leaf. After a week it turned light green.
Today I found on another Island a pure white one and another light green one.
I hope some of them will grow up.
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Iris chrysographes starts to flower on the Cypripedium tibeticum island.
Seedgrown more than a decade ago.
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Some more albinos of Gladiolus palustris seedlings.
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C.reginae starts to flower.
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Iris chrysographes shows its best
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I have a different setting for plants which like it more on the drier side.
Bottomless is one choice, the other one is a wicking system.
I cut a side of the pots bottom. pull a wick through. One flat piece outside the other one on one side up to the surface of the potting soil.
This set on one of the wick coated islands as shown in the pictures.
No maintenance needed.
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I had several islands with Meconopsis x Sheldonii. Germinated on several, but only one grows well.
All have different soil and mycorrhiza
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The revival of Cypripedium reginae which was the only one which looked after division awfully is still growing.
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Germination of different Drosera like filiformis without substrate was very good. But without feeding and no substrate the dwindled an quite a lot died after the second year.
After I put the piece of cloth on some substrate they started to recover.
The ones which I sowed this early spring on several Islands with fresh substrate grow much better.
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The Lilium seedlings are L.canadense. They grow on all islands well and are on most of them.
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Here is an update from some of the islands I started last December.
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I have some seedlings from the Orchid family on another island from the same time.
Seeds of the following species were sown on all of the islands.
Epipactis palustris, several Dactylorhiza species, Cypripedium reginae and Calopogon. I could not detect them on other island jet.
Germination occurred on life Sphagnum derived from an old artificial bog without Orchids apart from Cypripedium reginae.
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Axel, I have been following this thread since the start, and find it very informative and interesting. Your photos are instructive as well. I am very glad that you are still continuing to post.
I suspect your sphagnum moss grows faster than in would in the wild; how fast (or slow :) ) does it grow for you? 3cm per year? And how does it multiply - does it branch of the side, or does the terminal growing point divide?
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On these floating islands is Sphagnum (and other plants) grow certainly faster. The moisture is always the same. The faster species grow certainly more than 5 centimeters per year.
But I have not measured it and I had some which did not grow at all. But these might have been contaminated with salt from the street.
The ones from this thread are pictured from the beginning, and none are a already a year old.
If I pack them tight, they grow through division of the head. If I lay them as threads they grow from all of even slightly greenisch parts new heads, even white one turns green to a degree. I try to find pictures where this is demonstrated, and start some new and document this process.
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I am not very interested to do this in a scientific way.
I found recently this work about Sphagnum
https://www.coxnature.com/index.php?route=information/blogger&blogger_id=6
I have a very hungry mind and so I choose not to become a scientist. I am an artist who found gardening an interesting field which fits my interests best.
So Floating Gardens is in the end an open source art project.
I try to develop more diverse ecosystems than common planting systems offer. Especially for man dominated areas,where concrete and asphalt rules.
There is a lot to gain (CO2, water retention, city climate, living soil production etc.) but there are problems which have to be taken in account (micro plastic,
chemicals, mosquitos. birds and so on.
My intention is to interest for a start a certain group of humans to have a try (for example gardeners) We like to see things growing and by doing so might do some work for society and science.
One bait is , a simple way to grow difficult interesting plants and their various companions with little maintenance especially for places we have already depleted of its living skin.
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Thanks, Axel!
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I have found a picture from an island where I had only single strands of sphagnum left for a starter.
This might help to show how they grow with me.
The strands were laid out between some toothpicks to prevent them to be flushed away by heavy rain. Starting time was early spring.
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Thanks. Your pic does show new growth all along the stem when laid horizontal with light. I think we have about five Sphagnum species that are native in Minnesota. Have you tried many? Do you have a preferred one?
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I have marked this special Sphagnum place and keep you updated.
I have quite a few different species in my bogs. Most of them grow not divided into each species. I think there will be up to 10 species growing there.
Next time I will start a new island with single strands of different species to have clean sources.. Though there are areas with a single species.
I will make pictures of these areas.
I tried to uncover some of the Orchids, in order to get better pictures.
There is one with thin grass-like leafs, and another one which already divides into several growth points.
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Several Sphagnum species are fruiting. Some have already exceeded the 5 centimeters after half a year.
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Several Sphagnum species are fruiting. Some have already exceeded the 5 centimeters after half a year.
Good growth rate in the circumstances, I think.
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I never had better growing Sphagnum before. Even in this heat.
From Canada I got some seeds of Iris hookeri. It was already spring and was too late for normal sowing. I used some sandpaper. to get some of the seeds early started. The rest is in the fridge.
All germinated.
Here is one
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It is an effective cooling device.
Not only for the plants growing there. ;)
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It is an effective cooling device.
Not only for the plants growing there. ;)
:D ;D ;)
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Even Meconopsis seems to like hot summers there.
Picture from an hour ago.
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One of the islands had a visitor which harvested every leaf of Lilly growing there. (most likely a mouse) I will try some Chilly powder, to prevent further damage.
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I have two very similar Islands. One with no Sphagnum but mostly Hypnum sp. there Drosera intermedia and rotundifolia grows very well from seed since last autumn. Another one with partly Sphagnum, mostly Hypnum sp. and a thicker layer of peat. (3-4 cm) had the same seeds, gemination was as good, but all small plants withered away.
On the latter one dropped some needles of Picea omorica in autum and winter. Light is about the same.
I have no explanation.
Here the one with good Drosera growth.
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I found a possible explanation for the disappearing Droseras on the other island. It got by accident once watered with fertilized water which was meant for tomatoes.
Some old sheep dung dissolved in water. The tomatoes liked it.
Only the Droseras vanished. Vaccinum uliginoso and Sphagnum manged it. Maybe because the concentration is in this much water
faster diluted.
When I will have some new rainwater, I will change the water it is floating in and test if this substrate can be recovered in quality for Drosera.
Here is the poisoned island,
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Meconopsis sheldonii grows very well despite the heat we have.
All other seedlings on the other islands are dwarfish in full sun or more shady like the good one.
So I transplanted some of these dwarfs onto the best island. Substrate seems the same. Source was the island next to it same light probably same substrate, but different other plants.
After one week they look more vigorous. Probably something with their companions. Moss, fungus or others.
Most of the other seedlings are still alive and maybe start to grow again when autumn comes.
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Even Meconopsis seems to like hot summers there.
Picture from an hour ago.
This grasslike leafs are Gladiolus palustris seedlings which grow on most islands.
The original seed source of this strain is from a natural site near Augsburg in Germany. Propagated in a friends garden for many decades. The bulbs are quite big by now and the first leaf dies back.
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Drosera filiformis has reached 15 centimeters on one of these islands.
Most interesting is for me a batch Drosera linearis. It usually grows not very good and keeps being dwarfish with me.
I had very little left from previous attempts. This one is in its first year nearly thrice the size from my former experience.
There is still the possibility that I had mixed up the seed envelopes.
What do you think?
No hibernacle end of September so I might be wrong with the name.
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A quite fresh one from end of May compared with beginning of August.
Such growth is just average with these islands. (Two and a half month).
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Drosera linearis is now in its first year 3,5 cm high which is 1,38 inches.
This is the biggest one.
What surprises me is the good color, almost as in the wild.
No hibernacle yet end of September so I am probably wrong with the ID.
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I have on one of these islands Echium vulgare, which is believed not very tolerant to wet ground . Self sown and quite healthy.
Since I have seen this species flowering in a very wet slope which is fed by several seeps, I believe its the oxygen or the lack of it which would be a problem.
Such trouble do not occur on my islands.
Several Islands have now seedlings of Cistus laurifolius. I will see how they fare through the next winter.
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Meconopsis seedlings revive since the nights are cooling.
The two big ones show no difference, but all the small ones (which looked like shriveling away) put out new leafs. They are still very small.
Maybe they grow a bit until winter comes.
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Lately I discovered another Orchid species seedling. I hope there are more somewhere. Probably next year it will be more easy to discover them, when they are grown a bit.
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This one is quite small.
I found yesterday another one which is much bigger and I do not know why I saw it not before.
It looks not very healthy but the new leaf is bright green.
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Isn't it a bit late for new foliage at this time of the year?
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Isn't it a bit late for new foliage at this time of the year?
Nothing surprses me anymore!
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Today I had a look at this island. Substrate is 80% used coffee ground and the rest is a few moss patches, some acidic sand mixed with decaying Picea-needles from a wet forest.
No wonder that it had some problems, but why did it germinate just there? Of course I shed the seed capsules every where, because I had so much of some.
Another interesting fact, it is seemingly the only one which has a certain fungus fruiting there, Scutellinia the exact species is just a guess.. Quite beautiful and never observed before by me.
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There are some square Islands floating on empty plastic containers. On one I dumped too old seeds.
Some very unlikely germination happened.
This is a Sideritis seedling. I wonder how it will fare through winter (wet and cold)
If it dies I have new seeds from this year and germinate it there to be transplanted in the summer then.
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There are setbacks too
No sign of hibernacle from the outstanding supposed Drosera linearis yet. I guess there where old seeds in the substrate. I had in this small bog where the substrate was from 5 years ago some D. capensis. (Only half a meter from the place I took the substrate from) Still very puzzling to me.
They did not come back, but had flowers in the first year. No seedlings in all the time.
https://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=18726.75
Other islands where I have seeds of D.linearis from Canada germinated less good and grew quite slow, as I am used to.
There the plants already developed hinbernacle like most other Droseras like filiformis, intermedia and anglica.
So I was wrong, sorry.
The wrong ones have very slender leafs. I might take some plants indoor. I have none like this left in my other setups.
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For the long wintertime a view of a very nice Polygala paucifolia seedling. Seems to be quite difficult to keep.
A friend of mine had a beutiful batch grown from seeds. Plantlets from this place which I got, always died after some month apart from one exception.
Knorbs (my friend) had to remove his many years old batch recently and all died short afterwards.
Yours Botanically Inclined had seeds to offer and I took some.
Dispersed them on a dozen Islands(2-3 each). On 4 I have noted seedlings. Without the pictures of seedlings on the Canadian site I wouldn't stand a chance to identify them.
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Mandragora spec from Crete germinated on one of these Islands. I did it not on purpose but sometimes dirt and seeds end there.
They grow quite well untill now.
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Since they did so well I will try Mandragora caulescens from which I got seeds.
The Species from Crete has some older ones in my tomato pots. Maybe the flower the coming year and I find out what species this is.
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Sphagnum looks now stunningly beautiful.
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And this
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I have some seedlings from the Orchid family on another island from the same time.
Seeds of the following species were sown on all of the islands.
Epipactis palustris, several Dactylorhiza species, Cypripedium reginae and Calopogon. I could not detect them on other island jet.
Germination occurred on life Sphagnum derived from an old artificial bog without Orchids apart from Cypripedium reginae.
They formed bulbs and are probably Calopogon tuberosis. First year from seed.
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This one is quite small.
I found yesterday another one which is much bigger and I do not know why I saw it not before.
It looks not very healthy but the new leaf is bright green.
This seedling developed kind of a bulb. About 4 Millimeter
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Rectangular buckets with high substrate tends to tip one way or another. So tried different solutions.
The weight of ice or big plants countered my efforts quite regularly, if I had more than 20 centimeters substrate above waterline.
I want to show my latest attempt to solve this matter.
I had four stainless steel rods from a scrapyard at home. Some thin plastic tubes for electric wiring had to be bought.
First step is bending one side of the steel rod.
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Second step to fix one piece of the plastic tube over the part which should move over the mossy side of the planter.
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Thirdly to bend the other side of the rod which is going to be pushed into the ground.
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And that is the result on my floating planter with some Cypripedium reginae and other plants on it.
I hope this will be the final attempt. Round ones never had this issue.
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Hi Axel,
this entire thread is fascinating.
When I get time (quando, quando, quando) I would love to try this sort of thing.
This is possibly the year to do it as we are into our third La Nina in a row and the moisture has been incredible,
cheers
fermi
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Thank you very much for your encouragement Fermi.
I have increased my effort last winter a lot and most of the successes are not yet obvious enough to promote this method. Especially rare seeds take some time to grow into plain visible size ;)
I hope this will be more evident next year to other plant lovers.
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The species Drosophyllum seems to be difficult for some plant-enthusiasts.
I had a first try which was long term successful after a friend did not listen to my suggestions and set the trivet continually under water.
The doubled their size in a few weeks and so I kept them this way all year round.
They flowered several times a year and I harvested plenty of seeds.
They were in big high ceramic pots and since these were after a re-potting too big for my limited space and so I donated them to our local botanical garden.
On one of my floating islands without substrate I tried to germinate different species of peat-land plants on just some fleece.
Drosophyllum seeds ended there too. The first to germinate died in the first winter, probably of hunger.
Some of the seeds started in the third year and all the other plants looked quite undernourished, so I transplanted them with the whole fleece onto about 15 mm
of old substrate from a Drosophyllum-pot which I got back from my friend, (they died after the third year).
They took it well and this time they look not too bad. Even some more seedlings germinated, so all in all there are 5 plants an this little island.
I wonder if it is possible to grow them with so little substrate.
I am well aware that their habitat looks quite different, but I do not have fog every morning and sometimes there might be water veins underground where they grow.
Here I posted some of my previous experience in the high planters.
https://icps.proboards.com/thread/7249/drosophyllum-mycorrhiza
And this is my just running experiment with next to none substrate. Very flat. I hope they survive the first winter.
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After the first strong frost some unlikely plants survived as it seems.
I used old substrate mixture from a Drosophyllum pot and lo seeds from it germinated. I left them outside because there were seeds of other plants on this island which I wanted to leave outside.
Now everything defrosted and the Drosophyllum seedlings don't look dead. This changed my mind. I keep them now inside to check if they really survived this -15C° for some days.
The Drosophyllum on the first island , are of course in my frost free studio, since November.
At the moment it rains all the time and I have no pictures yet.
I heard sometimes they survive frost periods, but not that strong. I will see if they make again dewdrops.
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Thats what the Drosos looked like today.
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Cistus laurifolius on these islands don`t look dead yet.
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My Cephalotus settings in their special ceramic environments looked very spectacular, but this hot summer revealed: I have to look for them even more than once a week after them.
https://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13701.15
So I decided to move them to a floating system. Since mid summer I have them on some islands. The little Ulmus parvifolia "Hokkaido" like the new situation too.
It will take another spring or maybe even summer to make them as attractive as they were on the ceramic planter if ever.
But there I have to look after them every other month or so. Even in the heat of nowadays summer heat.
Surprisingly this is the only island where Sphagnum moss has some problem. It did not take off at once. Quite the contrary it grew backwards.
I will observe how it fares the coming year.
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Another little highlight is the last survivor from a full pot of Darlingtonia/Oregon mountain form.
They all died while in care from a drought spell.
I got it back as a pot full of brown shriveled specimens. This pot stood one year always in some water looking dead.
The next spring I discovered some life shoot, which I I transplanted to a small island with some Cephalotus seedling.
It is still quite small but has a beautiful color.
So don't give up too early especially with Darlingtonia.
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A friend of mine found this interesting hydroponic system from Jeong-Pil Lee.
https://cpn.carnivorousplants.org/articles/CPNv50n1p29_31.pdf
Jeong-Pil Lee found an easy solution for a usually difficult plant, which tends to die after the first flowering and seed setting.
Most notable I find his cooling cloth which might be used efficiently for other plants like Darlingtonia to keep their roots cool.
Mr. Jeong-Pil Lee mentioned a problem in an outdoor situation, that it might fill the water-reservoir up, and the roots suffocate in this case.
This could be helped with some holes at the optimum level.
And while I was thinking about it: I would rub some dried Moss (Hypnum f.e.) onto the cloth, it will then soon cover the whole cloth and look like a mossy tree trunk with a dewy crown.
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The Drosophyllum "Frostheroes" are again growing. Light level was indoor very low. I put some Aluminum foil behind it to increase light level.
-15 for some days is more than I supposed the might survive
Picture from today.
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Last winter I sowed some Primula seeds from Gabriela (Yours Botanically inclined). It was a European species and a very similar one from Canada.
One is Primula frondosa (Europe) the other is Primula mistassinica (Canada)
Most of the seeds I kept in the fridge until last fall. This ones will germinate this spring.
The first set fared very good in my wet environment. I expect some flowers.
Thank you Gabriela lots of other seeds from you are waiting for spring.
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One of my smaller islands on my windowsill (15 cm). I started this one in December, because I needed some space for new Pygmy Drosera gemmae. The Utricularia is U. monanthos mostly hardy under my conditions (6b) but a backup is never a mistake.
While eating a exeptionally good Strawberry I saved one nut and lo it germinated there. Must be transplanted soon.
Such places are always handy ;)
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In the old garden of my father was under some old willow trees a abundant stand of Cypripedium calceolus.
This is now for about 40 years only memory.
I have started today two hydroponic islands. The fleece material I used was some underwear out of micro fleece which was worn down in different armies.
But got a nice colour ;)
I used the soil from the long gone stand of my fathers Cypripedium. Not much was left of it.
The old garden is no more used and covered with a wilderness of young and rotten wood speckled with garbage.
I hope that the fungi associated with the willow are still alive (the willows are still alive). They are supposed to be beneficial for Cypripedium.
I took some life willow material (roots and rooted sticks) from this stand and different soil-levels to place on my islands.
Furthermore some rotten willow-wood and a lot of mosses grown there on dead tree trunks and garbage.
When I get seeds or small plants from Cypripedium I will add them too. At the moment the willows and moss will grow there. And of course some special Leucojum
Here are the stages.
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I have now a few not too small deflasced Cypripedium calceolus.
I put some more substrate from the old garden of my late father and planted them there.
Another nice surprise were on one of my new Cypripedium reginae Islands some Trillium pusillum var. alabamicum.
I got some small rhizomes of this species from a friend.
I discovered today 3 plants and two with buds. The leafs are deep violet-black colored and very attractive.
I hope they wont be damaged by the coming frost-period.
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partisangardener,
You can protect thm from the coming frost by placing a bucket over them until the frost ends.
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Thank you
I think large cup or something like this, will do it. They are so tiny.
Maybe I find something from a coffee to go.
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Thank you again it worked and they start to flower. Not yet really open but I can see the white.
Another big problem are the birds.
A provisional solution in my Orchid and Trillium bucket worked with a lot of prickly twigs (Berberis).
The dangerous Mikado with the inch long stings was too much for my clever birds. But I myself turned out to be inadequate for this task. :P
Finally I had another solution.
Two 3 meter iron rods bent over the bucket. Connected with some plastic covered wire works quite well and is not too much disturbing.
Taking pictures is now less difficult.
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Yesterday my first non hardy islands are outside for hardening. Little Trees are Ulmus parvifolius "Hokkaido"
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Even buckets are suitable.
Some small Primula with Pinguicula longifolia var. longifolia
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Levisia rediviva germinated on the same island.
It is the wrong soil (tufa) an a bit too wet. Still they look healthy. Drainage on the little tufa rock is excellent.
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One of my small Pinguicula seedlings has developed beautiful venation.
I thought there are on this island only P.grandiflora and a few P.vulgaris seeds. Maybe some other seeds got there by mistake or the mother was a P.grandiflora hybrid.
A slug had nibbled a bit on this small thing.
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Another interesting seedling starts its second year. Chimaphila umbellata
This species is a lot more difficult than most other seeds I obtained from Gabriela.
I discovered last Summer in its first year a tiny seedling. Not sure yet that it is the real thing.
Very tiny, but what I read about this species here, there is no natural reproduction at the natural stands here.
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Axel,
Thank you for an interesting and informative thread. I have learned much!
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Several Gentiana species did germinate on one Island. Maybe some Rhododendron groenlandicum too.
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Cypripedium acaule flowers in its third year for the first time. I grow it on an island together with a lot of Sphagnum, a willow and a japanese maple.
'I hope some mycorrhizal fungus is there too.
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Cypripedium acaule flowers in its third year for the first time. I grow it on an island together with a lot of Sphagnum, a willow and a japanese maple.
'I hope some mycorrhizal fungus is there too.
Congratulations, Axel!
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Cypripedium acaule flowers in its third year for the first time. I grow it on an island together with a lot of Sphagnum, a willow and a japanese maple.
'I hope some mycorrhizal fungus is there too.
what's the substrat used?
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What I got it in, was some silica sand and very acidic peat. What I added was granite gravel underneath and top soil from a forest on granite (this one foremost beside the actual plant and the original soil). Most volume is my homegrown Sphagnum as topping and cover of this planter.
The water it is actual floating on is Ph 5.5 which is supposed to be too basic. I will add some vinegar acid today. Have not done it since last year autumn.
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Schrankia nutallii came back this year. Late as usual. Winter minimum was down to -18 for some weeks in December.
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Some strange tiny beauty started to flower. I don't know what it is.
Would be grateful for some help. It reminds me of Cymbalaria hepaticifolia, but I do not remember to have sown it, nor do I know where from.
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My in vitro Cypripedium calceolus were planted end of March.
They did nothing at all until now. I checked every other week and they were still white and somewhat dormant.
Now end of June they decided to take a chance, at least three plants with several growth points turned green.
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This seedling from Sarracenia leucophylla (Hurricane Creek White- cross between different clones)) is quite interesting. Comes up very early for the species and takes our winters 6b without any issue yet.
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Drosophyllum is supposed to require experienced growers.
It needs next to none maintenance on a hydroponic floating device with two third of an inch substrate maximum.
In this case two flat layers of Styrofoam and some micro fleece to keep it moist. It started to flower in its second season.
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There are three adult plants on this floater, apart from quite a lot of some Drosera species.
The one you just saw the lower part.
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And the two other ones.
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The little Cypripedium calceolus look good by now. 5 plants already up now.
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At the moment I experience on a few islands a invasion of Tipula larvae. These Crane flies could be very harmfull. Mine feed up to now mainly on mosses.
Today I had a chance to take pictures of some.
The two islands with Cypripedium calceolus were covered with moss, which grew on without hesitation. A few weeks ago it started to disappear very fast.
I knew the culprit from last autumn and lo I found them.
The Cypripedium and some other plants look still undisturbed.
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At the moment I experience on a few islands a invasion of Tipula larvae. These Crane flies could be very harmfull. Mine feed up to now mainly on mosses.
Today I had a chance to take pictures of some.
The two islands with Cypripedium calceolus were covered with moss, which grew on without hesitation. A few weeks ago it started to disappear very fast.
I knew the culprit from last autumn and lo I found them.
The Cypripedium and some other plants look still undisturbed.
Wow! really lucky you knew what to look for.
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Lucky indeed, my first encounter on my hydroponics was just last year.
I had a square island for Pygmy Drosera. While it was over the winter inside, suddenly all the mossy mounds (created out of the cut off legs of military underwear, filled with substrate) lost their living green skin and the cotton fabric with it.
The mounds fell apart and the Drosera did not like this.
There the culprits could not escape while they were looking for more food. In winter I had finally some of the Crane flies hatched. So I was sure what it was.
I missed to take a picture then. :-[
Naturally nematodes would be their enemy, but I want to observe what happens next. Birds don´t like them, anyway I keep those away. 8)
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Such systems could be simple energy saving cooling devices on roofs or in the streets and backyards. Makes an excellent water-retention for strong rain and are good for reuse of empty plastic containers and of synthetic tissue which is not easy recyclable.
In addition solar panels above such systems would make it even more effective.
On a large scale we could even copy the CO2 retention of moors.
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I had to renovate my first non floating hydroponic planter for my Cypripedium reginae. The flourished there better than on floating devices.
Unfortunately I constructed them with viscose fleece and sponge cloth of organic origin. This decayed after a few years and this summer the plants had to endure less favorable conditions.
The construction was not yet shown so I use this opportunity.
Only very little of the original wicking fleece was left and all the holes in the plastic coasters were closed with fine organic debris.
I cleared out everything and put under each layer of the plastic coasters some spacers (pieces of Styrofoam).
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I added some wick from synthetic micro fiber fleece to prevent substrate being flooded into the water body and wick water up to the substrate.
After this I filled the space on the sides with pebbles and covered them again with the same fleece.
I used discarded second hand underwear from an army supply.
Three plastic tubes under the fleece for excess water make the moisture level ideal and keep the oxygen level at an optimum.
In the end I added the different soil layers and the plants into my planter.
To re-water the reservoir in case of drought I placed a pebble filled sleeve into one corner of the planter which connected to the bottom.
This is all in all the same setup as the original one, only I have now a non-decaying wick system in it.
I expect the Cypripedium reginae will have better growth than this year.
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My friend Knorbs simplified this system a bit. Just some plastic coated mesh instead of a rim around the edge.
I wanted to make an island for some more airy variation and so I used his method for this new island. It is meant for Ephedra minima and some more plants with the same preference.
I put some pumice pebbles on the Styrofoam and covered this with micro-fiber fleece. Around the edge I fixed then a ring of plastic coated mesh with a staple.
Then I place some Dormouse moss on the mesh. Tomorrow I will fill in acidic substrate and set the first plants.
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This island was mainly destined for Ephedra.
For structure I added some dead Erica twigs and then I started planting.
Finally I added substrate (peat, moler, sand and some Perlite) and covered it with moss.
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One of my smaller islands on my windowsill (15 cm). I started this one in December, because I needed some space for new Pygmy Drosera gemmae. The Utricularia is U. monanthos mostly hardy under my conditions (6b) but a backup is never a mistake.
While eating a exeptionally good Strawberry I saved one nut and lo it germinated there. Must be transplanted soon.
Such places are always handy ;)
That is how it looks like now.
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On quite a lot of my islands I lost a good amount of Pinguicula winterbuds. The ones covered by dead leaves were still there. :(
It was mice.