Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Travel / Places to Visit => Topic started by: art600 on November 17, 2009, 07:52:44 PM
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We planned our holiday in Turkey in time with the anticipated flowering of Crocus wattiorum. This meant we were approx 2 weeks later than normal. Whether the delay was responsible for the sometimes appalling weather I think we will never know.
We had no planned itinerary, other than to be near Goynuk at the end of the holiday. This was fortunate as we changed our 'preferred' itinerary several times to take account of the weather.
We flew to Antalya and then drove to Alanya. Finding a hotel was difficult out of season, but if you persist you can generally find something acceptable - i.e. with hot water. We stayed in Mahmutlar, just outside Alanya
Next day we decided to explore an area to the east of Alanya - Saperdere Canyon. We found Cyclamen graecum (few flowers only) some Colchicum and then Crocus cancellatus pamphylicus. Day was interrupted by monsoon rain on several occasions and lunch was in the car.
I would like an identification for the Colchicum please. (Possibly Colchicum decaisnei - thanks Dave M)
The Spiranthes autumnalis was a bonus.
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Next day we set off for Akseki via Gundogmus. Beyond Guzelbag we spotted Cyclamen cilicium and more Crocus cancellatus pamphylicus.
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I went with three friends - Dan (He attended the Discussion Weekend), Christiane Gifford (Some of you will know her from the Cyclamen Society) and Jill White (She was responsible for my plant travels and organises our trips to Iran).
Jill was unwell when we reached Akseki and Chris stayed with her. Dan & I went looking for food.
Dan is a vegetarian who does not eat fish or eggs! We only knew 2 restaurants in Akseki and one was closed. A third restaurant that appeared to be closed, opened its doors when we looked in its window. Two old gentlemen tried to interest us in their displayed food - remember we do not speak Turkish and they do not speak English. On display were 3 meatballs, carrots and tomatoes. Then they showed us a bowl containing a liquid that smelt like humous, a cucumber and an onion. We discarded the meatballs and waited to see what appeared - a small bowl of 'salad' with lots of bread and washed down with Nescafe.
We were shortly joined by a group of Dutch people who had sailed to Turkey, parked their boats in Marmaris and decided to see some countryside. They asked for our recommendation! - we had eaten it by this time. Fortunately one of the group spoke Turkish and they persuaded the old men to buy some eggs for omelettes - me too I said. A young Turk appeared who could speak English and cook, beers and wine were ordered and we had a really fun evening.
Next day we went looking for Crocus assumaniae near to Ibradi. Weather was brilliant with sunshine and a temperature exceeding 20C. At our first stop the asumaniae were mixed with Crocus cancellatus pamphylicus, with the latter dominating. At a second stop they were all assumaniae - I think we also managed to photograph the same Biarum pyrami that Tony Willis photographed.
We drove further to a village called Ormanak where we photographed some old houses. In a field we found an aberrant form of assumaniae.
The photos show:
Biarum pyrami
Why don't the ants' nests get wet when it rains - a perfect funnel for the water ???
Crocus assumaniae
Old houses
12 petalled assumaniae
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Arthur,
very interesting trip - guess you will still continue the story as you have not yet found C. wattiorum ;)
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Armin
Yes of course - but one must eat ;)
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Arthur,
very interesting trip - guess you will still continue the story as you have not yet found C. wattiorum ;)
I can only confirm Armins notes - please continue!
Gerd
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The next day we had planned to travel to Beysehir, but we set off in rain that rapidly turned to snow. Abandoning any thoughts of Beysehir, we headed for Egridir.
Just north of Yesildag, Chris spotted something blue. It turned out to be a beautiful blue Crocus pallasii - regretably due to the snow we were unable to photograph the Crocus - fortunately we saw it again and were able to take some shots.
We were delighted to reach Egridir, book into the Hotel Egridir and luxuriate in hot radiators and hot water.
Next morning the skies were blue, the sun shone, but it was very cold. We set off for a Milli-park that had been filled with paeonies, Frit whitallii, Irises and Ornithogalums in the Spring. In the Autumn it was devoid of flowering plants. We did locate some Frit seedheads of whitallii and collected some seeds. On our way back we spotted some Sternbergia lutea.
We decided that the weather was too cold for a picnic lunch and returned to Egridir for lunch in a favourite restaurant - the Big Apple. We were the only customers - the lentil soup was both nutritious and warming.
After lunch we decided to go to a Ski Resort on Davas Dag. This has expanded significantly since we were last there in 2004.
Photos show:
Sternbergia lutea
A view across Lake Egridir
The ski resort at Davas Dag
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Arthur could you name your images, please
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November 4th was a special day for Jill - her birthday, and a significant one. We had spent time the previous evening looking for a special cake - we found one and she was delighted.
The weather had turned foul and we abandoned our planned itinerary to return South to Kemer and start to look for wattiorum. We learnt from the TV that there had been a severe storm (looked more like a Tornado) near Antalya with dramatic flooding. We hoped that the weather would now improve.
On reaching Antalya there was a brief glimpse of blue sky before the heavens opened and the deluge continued. Finding a hotel out of season again proved difficult and Jill and Chris were soaked by the time they found one ;D - I should explain that Jill does speak some Turkish, likes to inspect the rooms and ensure we have hot water. Dan & I were happy to wait in the car.
We eventually found a hotel and celebrated Jill's birthday with an excellent meal in a local restaurant.
Surely tomorrow would be better.
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Next morning the sun shone and we started our hunt for wattiorum near Goynuk. Following some instructions from friends we expected to find the location without difficulty - how wrong we were. Unbeknown to us a major change had occurred to frustrate us.
We knew we had to keep to the left bank of the river leading into a Canyon. We drove as far a we could and then walked - to find our way barred by a wire fence that stretched across the river. We then drove along the right bank until we were confronted by a wire fence enclosing the Goynuk Canyon Park. Our friends had not mentioned this so we decided to go elsewhere and resume the search the following day.
We went to Gedelme where we knew we would see Galanthus peshmenii and hopefully Crocus.
The peshmenii were plentiful and just as beautiful as I remembered them. Then we saw an attractive clematis - I would really like to identify this please. And then we found a Crocus - cancellatus lycius. Cliff and Ian, please note Dan is continuing to spread the joys of Bob Dylan amongst the natives 8)
We returned to our hotel in Kemer very happy.
Photos show:-
Galanthus peshmenii
Dan looking for Crocus
Crocus cancellatus lycius
Attractive clematis - now identified as cirrhosa
Galanthus peshmenii
Very poor photograph of an unusual peshmenii - it has outer marks identical to the inner marks 8)
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Arthur - looks to have been a super trip, bringing back memories of my visit to the area a few years ago. I look forward to seeing more great photos!
I think your colchicum is probably C. decaisnei, certainly in respect of the approx equal length of the anthers and style. However, the plants of that species I saw typically had many more flowers than yours seem to have.
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Arthur, thanks a lot for this great pics and the added information!
Your Clematis might be an early form of Clematis cirrhosa.
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Agreed, Hans. Lovely Clematis cirrhosa!!
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We decided to phone our friends to seek further info. Dan and I went to the PTT (Post Office). We spoke for approx 5 minutes and when we came to pay saw what we thought was a bill for TL15.00 (approx £7). We were wrong - it was only TL1.50. We only had TL1.40 in small change and the very helpful assistant took this and wished us a good evening. Cannot see the British Post Office being so helpful :)
We had planned to go to Fethiye, but determined to find wattiorum and armed with the further information from our friends, we made our way to Goynuk and booked into a very nice hotel for the remaining 4 days. Then we returned to the river.
We had spotted a dirt road going up the mountain on the left bank before the wire fence - this tied in with the fresh info. We headed to this road with high hopes. The road, however, stopped after a very short distance. Not to be deterred, we walked through an orchard, found a hole in a wire fence and proceeded upwards on what we assumed was the right path. An hour later we found ourselves at the bottom of a rocky outcrop - wattiorum is a chasmophyte and loves rocky outcrops. Chasmophye - a plant which grows in the crevices of rocks and rock faces. We must be so close. Wrong!!
It proved impossible to proceed further and Jill and Chris decided to return to the car. I was next, having made a futile attempt to find a way round the rocks, and Dan was last. We all returned to the car by different routes - it is so easy to get lost on a mountain. At least I saw some Colchicums on the descent. Met up with Jill & Chris and we decided to leave a note for Dan and to walk back to our hotel - frustration can make you do funny things. We were relieved when Dan picked us up halfway back to the hotel.
Wattiorum had defeated us for another day :(
Photo show:-
A view of the river leading to the Canyon from the rocky outcrop
The rocky outcrop
Colchicum baytopiorum
Unknown Colchicum
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Hans, Dave - thanks for the clematis identification
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Next day was sunny and we decided to leave wattiorum hunting for a day and to visit Saklikent - a ski resort near Antalya. This was to have a significant effect in the days to come.
Whilst there was nothing to see at Saklikent, we did see some plants on the way, including Crocus pallasii, Galanthus peshmenii (including one that was poculiformis), more Colchicum baytopiorum, and the munchers. Cliff and Ian please note the sterling work Dan is doing to spread the word ;)
Photos show:-
Dan at Saklikent
Galanthus peshmenii
Crocus pallasii
The munchers
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Next day was a beautiful sunny day and we felt lucky.
The decision was made to go into the Goynuk Canyon Park. We each paid our TL5.0 entrance fee (approx €2.50) and joined a happy band of German hikers on their walk up the Canyon.
It was necessary to cross the river. There was no bridge, but a series of stepping stones emerging from the river. Successfully negotiating this we proceeded towards the cafe and the 'kayaks'. On turning a corner we were rewarded with our first sight of wattiorum - or could it be as we were not at the altitude specified. Happily it was wattiorum growing in rock crevices amongst Galanthus peshmenii. The German hikers ignored them completely and didn't even stop to question why we were twisting our bodies into curious shapes as we attempted to get some good pictures of this beautiful Crocus.
Jill and Chris were overjoyed to find it after so many frustrated attempts. Dan and I were still determined to find it at the spot high in the mountains where the Watts had found it all those years ago. We decided to return the next day, whilst the ladies could visit other places and find other plants.
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I mentioned that our decision to take a day off and visit Saklikent was to have a significant effect - overnight there was another bout of monsoon weather, the roads turned into rivers, and the river in the Canyon rose significantly.
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Our last day. Our flight was not until 17.30 so we decided to explore Goynuk some more.
Kemer used to be a favourite base, but not anymore - the Russians have taken over. Goynuk and, in particular, the Hotel Beydagi Konak, we would recomment to anyone planning a Spring visit to this part of Turkey. The hotel was run by a family, was inexpensive, had hot water, towels changed daily, filter coffee at breakfast and fresh pomegranate juice at breakfast. A very fortunate find and I am sure we will return.
Crossing the main coastal road, the D400 I think, we entered a whole new Goynuk - not for us. I am showing you 2 of the hotels :o :o
The Queen Elizabeth and a pseudo French chateau styled hotel. At least the latter had a garden and water chute for the children. I cannot imagine anything more ghastly.
On our way to the airport we stopped to picnic with some Colchicums - again identification would be appreciated.
Photos show:-
Queen Elizabeth hotel
French chateau style hotel
Our hotel
View from hotel
Details of our hotel
Unidentified Colchicums
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A great account of your adventures Arthur, and very fine pictures; many thanks.
What magnificent country for walking & botanizing.
I hadn't realised until now just how beautiful wattiorum is, and those cyclamen are wonderful too :o
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I could not end this account of our holiday without recounting what happened on our way to the airport. If I do not tell you, I am sure some of you will hear the story, since Jill & Chris were determined that more people should know.
We have fondly referred to the holidays we arrange as Serendipity tours. This was no exception. In spite of the miserable weather we all enjoyed ourselves, saw marvellous flowers, and met fascinating people. What more could you want.
I arranged our car through the internet using Argus Car Hire. They were used for our trips to the Peloponnese with total success and they are the cheapest ;D
We were met at Antalya airport and taken in a mini-bus to an area close to the airport, but outside the airport. The car was as expected and met our needs for comfort and sufficient luggage space. We were to return the car to this spot at 15.00 on November 10th and we would then be bussed to the airport - nothing simpler.
On the morning of the 10th none of us felt confident we would find the location to return the car. With the help of the hotel we phoned their head office in Antalya and it was agreed we should return it there. I remember asking if it was easy - of course it is, and when you get near just ask for them and everyone can tell you where they are. Famous last words.
We were aiming for an old part of Antalya - Kaleici I think. Spotted the sign, turned right, spotted another sign, turned right onto a tram track. What to do - I went forward thinking I would find the road, only to find I was now between two brick walls either side of the tram track. Mild hysteria in the back and looks of total astonishment on the faces of the local population. Hoping there was not a tram coming towards us , I proceeded speedily about 300 metres before I could escape onto a road.
We repeated the route, omitting to take the second right turn. Now to find the office. The first person spoke no English and did not recognise the firm from their invoice. We stopped a young couple, who fortunately spoke English and said they would stay with us until we had found the office. I parked the car in a carpark and Dan & I walked towards where we thought the office was- even when we were next door to the building a taxi driver did not know where it was. Thank goodness for the young couple. Dan & I thanked them very much and entered the office to find a manager who spoke no English - too late the young couple had vanished. It was now 14.35 and we thought it took 30 minutes to the airport.
The manager spoke a little German and whilst Dan returned to tell Jill & chris we had found the office and were arranging our pick up, I struggled to remember German learnt more than 50 years previously. I obviously had some success as the manager called the man at the airport and asked him to come quickly to the office. When he arrived he accompanied me to the carpark where an anxious Jill & Chris awaited and then drove us speedily to the airport. Just before the airport Dan & I recognised the road we would have taken to the rendezvous point :-[. The driver got us there in good time and hoped we would use them on our next visit - we would. Then into the airport to join a queue for nearly an hour to book in ::)
All's well that ends well, and our holiday certainly did that. I would encourage anyone to take courage in their hands and arrange their own holidays in Turkey, the Peloponnese etc etc. If 3 OAPs can do it - you can do it.
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Ashley
They are even more beautiful in the flesh, and the Cyclamen really are outstanding.
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Magnificent report Art - many thanks!
Good to see that Dan hasn't switched allegiance to rap artistes (does he own a Ray LaMontagne or Tom Baxter T-shirt by any chance)? :D
Would be interested in hearing your recommendations for wildflower locations near (relatively) Goynuk please?
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Amazing trip, Arthur. We were in same locality approximately at same time. I left Antalya to home early morning 4th of November. Before a little about plants I would like to tell some words about car-rent and hotels in Antalya. Possibly it will help to other travellers.
We rented car in Euro-car. Our first was excellent Renault-cangoo - superb car for 4 persons (we were only 3) with a lot of space for bags. On speedometer was only 30.000 km. We got it late evening and I checked wheels only following day afternoon when we were 500 km from Antalya. The resin on them was almost nude - such can't be after 30-thousand km. Having such on mountain roads, in heavy rain was halfway to autocide, so when we returned to Antalya we went back to Euro Car asking replace tires. After an half hour discussion they came to check and finally agreed that such are not driveable. (In spring in Istanbul we got tire with nail in it, which started to collapse still in Airport and I wondered while the car is not setting well on road before we reached the first parking spot on roadside where found that only half of air left in tire). They offered us new car in evening, fortunately Vaclav told that we have booked hotel in far distance, then in an hour car was replaced with another Cangoo, of same mileage and something better tires on it, but with several defects, so we carefully checked everything, even several broken spots inside, for they all will be listed on paper. Euro-car of course was not happy for such customers. Several years ago during LST expedition with Gothenburg BG we rented Minibus from Avis. They gave it to us with words that this is top-quality car usually used by their chief. It's anchor's broke on second afternoon, but Avis replaced it during night. So renting car in Turkey you must be carefull even using good brand rental companies. Usually new tires are replaced with old ones, so check everything!
I well know the problem with searching moderate priced hotels in Antalya. During my second trip to Turkey I used half a day searching for some. Now I know where is good hotels and how to reach this part of city. Leaving Antalya airport take direction to Antalya and then follow road signs to Kemer, Liman (sea port). It is long way by new roads around city-center, but very fast and really impossible to miss if you follow road signs and know quite specific Turkish mode of their placing, something different than in Europe, but really there would be no problems. After several turns on right side you will pass huge Migrosh supermarket and road will go by seaside. At first lights after Migrosh turn right and take left turn on first large street. It is second parallel street to beachside road. Just after turn will be London Hotel, but I can recommend you a little further LEMON HOTEL on right side of road. Excellent rooms, superb Swedish table type breakfest and all it for 30 TL (15,- GBP) per person. Clean rooms, hot water, silence. Only out of season ask at reception to switch on hot water. They speak English, German (at reception desk each second day works local teacher of English and German). Not far good restaurants. There are some moderate prised hotels on beachside road, too between those 5-star monsters, but the road is busy and so rooms are noisy, too. From there excellent roads lead to West and to North, and not difficult to go East, too. It is on opposite side of Antalya, but excellent parking possibilities, good roads, closely setted supermarket, Post Office, Beach, and "easy to go everywhere" compensates some more km of drive.
Janis
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Crocus wattiorum was not between my special targets as it isn't so much variable as other species. We went by the same road to Goynuk as your group, Arthur. But it was on 2nd of November's afternoon, so we had no time to enter Milli Park and as you didn't find wattiorum by this road. But in first half of day we pictured excellent population of C. cancellatus lycius, few pictures attached. Shortly before Altinyaka we pictured small population of Colchicum sanguicolle - very easy identifiable by its red cataphyll (see picture). On other side of road is beautiful mountain view. Then we turned back and went to Goynuk by Canyon road. On roadside we spotted colchicums - seem to be decaisnei and dolychantherum side by side, the second with wider petals. Unfortunately at place (real jungles) with best groups my camera was accidentally switched to monochrome mode and I got only black-white pictures, something later the groups were much smaller. I'm not 100% certain about correct identification as anthers change size with age. Flowers were damaged by heavy rains in preceding night. 3rd of November we went to other direction for Crocus pallasii and so I left without pictures of wattiorum in wild. My own stock of it is quite large and now is close to end of blooming but weather is so dull that no picturing possible. They something suffered from frost last winter and I really was very surprised for so abundant blooming having only small corms. I'm thinking about offering it in my next catalogue.
Janis
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A wonderful "Tale of the unexpected" Art !! 8)
Reads like a thriller - but much better illustrated !! ;D
C. wattiorum surely was worth the "trouble" - I love these black anthered Crocus species ! Brilliant Cyclamen as well - really outstanding foliage !! :o
Thanks a lot for taking us on your hikes... we didn't even get our feet wet.. ;D
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Art what a wonderful account of your trip - I also felt anxious as I read the last leg to the airport.
What a beautiful Crocus wattiorum is.
Glad to see Dan still rocks - advertising two great song writers and perfomers that are still part of my daily listening. 8)
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Wonderful article, Art! I'm moving this to the "Travel and places to visit" section, where it may be more appropriate.... so much more here than just the truly scrumptious crocus!
Thanks!
M
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Thanks, Art, it's accounts like this which make me so glad I joined this forum.
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hi Arthur
what a great tale.I must have either been a day a head or one behind you at Goynuk. I of course had no problem crossing the river just leaping like a gazelle from rock to rock.
The cyclamen graecum are just stunning and in such quantity.
When I got back everbody said was the weather nice-was it warm. Yes some of the time but I was in Kas when the storm happened and it was almost impossible to stand up in the wind.
I arrived at Antalya airport at 2am and went to the airport hotel.They wanted 220 euros for the night so I nipped along to Side and found one at 15 euros including breakfast.
I always use Avis for car hire and have only had a one problem over many years getting an appalling car from the Istanbul city office.
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Arthur,
Great account of your travels and discoveries; really enjoyed it.
I have taken your G. peshmenii photograph from above and tried to make it a bit more white. I hope it works and you don't mind.
Paddy
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Paddy
Every offer of help is greatly appreciated :)
Glad you enjoyed my trip - we certainly did.
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Hi Art, what an interesting story of your hunting trip together with the pictures.
Really enjoyed reading about such an adventurous travel where everything is not always like expected when planning before….?
Thanks so much for showing.
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Splendid report Arthur, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
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Art - great story, great adventure. Thanks for sharing - I'm looking forward to being an OAP and the chance to throw caution to the wind!
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Amazing trip, Arthur. We were in same locality approximately at same time. I left Antalya to home early morning 4th of November. Before a little about plants I would like to tell some words about car-rent and hotels in Antalya. Possibly it will help to other travellers.
Janis
Janis,
My problems with car hire in Turkey have been with Avis. Never with poor vehicles, as you experienced, but imcompetence in delivering and collecting the car.
I found Argus Car Hire on a comparison site. They act as an agent for the smaller car hire companies that generally do not have offices at the airport. Their recommendations have been excellent on all 5 occasions we have used them, and I would recommend anyone considering travel to Greece or Turkey to give them a try.
I have recommendations for hotels in a lot of Turkish towns and would be happy to provide these when people want them.
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Arthur this is strange. This was my 20th trip to Turkey and I have used Avis every time prebooking in the UK picking the car up at the airport and delivering it back there with never a problem.Most times I have had an upgrade free.
My one problem was when I went on a package to Istanbul and used the local Avis for a couple of days hire. It was a sub agency and the car was a wreck.
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great report and lovely plants, thanks for taking the time, art :)
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Comming a bit late but thanks for the adventures Art and Janis
I was in the area in one of the hotels for a conference and it is nice to see the landscape in this time of the year.
Lovely cyclamen Art.
Kind regards
Joakim