Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Crocus => Topic started by: Hristo on November 01, 2009, 07:31:14 AM
-
Flowering now in the limestone foothills of the western Rhodopi, Crocus pallasii.
Locally abundant in a range of colours and forms.
Despite being a dull day the flowers were fully open and the bees were visiting.
-
For those who like to make
comaprisons comparisons!; ;) ;D ;D
Flowering now in the western foothills of Mt.Olympos, Crocus pallasii.
Again locally abundant and variable in colour and form.
-
For those who like to make comaprisons!; ;)
Flowering now in the western foothills of Mt.Olympos, Crocus pallasii.
Again locally abundant and variable in colour and form.
What an interesting nice colored crocus - and near to Mt. Olympus!
and sorry, can't resist: it is one to go into coma-(parison) ;)
Gerd
-
To my eye the darkest and palest in the first group photo are very nice
-
My favourites too Mark, currently that's Bulgaria 2, Greece 2 !!
-
Flowering now in the foothills of Western Greek Makedonia-
Crocus cancellatus mazziaricus
This small population exhibited a range of petal shapes and sizes, as well as intensity of style colour. Flower colours ranged from whites to mid-blues.
-
Great shots from the wild keep them coming please
Here is a favourite of mine in the garden. A late flowering (Nov) form of niveus. The last being a close up
-
Lovely to see C.niveus still giving its all- they are still in flower here too.
More C.cancellatus mazziaricus form a different location in Greek Makedonia. This time the population numbered tens of thousands and exhibited a great degree of variability- from white petals with darker feathering, through to darker blue with paler markings.
-
Thanks for these Simon - fascinating to see the variation. All are attractive but I particularly like the pale one (SRGC1). With tens of thousands, I dare say you might get a bit of seed next year!
-
We were quite happy on seeing the plants in flower, as we have made several seed collections at this site during previous spring visits all without knowing exactly which species the seed would turn out to be. :)
Here are the second set of pics from the same site.
-
A few wishy-washy Crocus grown as goulimyi ex SRGC 94-1070. Are they correct?
johnw
-
Yes
-
What a marvelous start into November!
I envy you a bit both Chris and Simon that I can't be there now. :'(
But I'm very glad you give us such fantastic field views.
The comparison pictures and shown variants are simply great 8)
John,
in my eyes your wishy-washy crocus are C. goulimyi.
Paler in color but flower shape fits.
-
Here my 1st. C. melantherus... (Thanks Dirk ;))
-
Armin & Lesley - Thanks for the confirmation.
Nice melantherus there.
johnw
-
Chris and Simon,
Thanks for the pics in the wild. Amazing to see just how much wild variation there is. The pallasii in particular are glorious in their differences. Very, very nice.
Thanks to all for their pics. So very un-crocus here at the moment. ;D ;D
-
Nice melantherus Armin (from great origin, of course !)
Curiously here, some early species give again. Certain are very late, others early. Curious !
Crocus cartwrightianus Albus pure white form,
Crocus kotschyanus, nice marked form
Crocus longiflorus
-
Crocus laevigatus, one with 8 tepals
Crocus laevigatus Albus first day
Crocus laevigatus, from Greece
-
Crocus ligusticus. One is bicolor ???
-
so fine Crocus ochroleucus !
-
Dom, superb pictures, too. 8) 8) 8)
Like in particular your fine C. longiflorus and the Greek form of C. laevigatus.
Never seen a bicolor C. ligusticus before - extraordinary and beautiful.
-
ooh - ochroleucus! :D 8)
-
Very nice, Dominique. 8)
-
so fine Crocus ochroleucus !
Dom wonderful plants and photos thanks I particularly like C ochroleucus 8)
-
Crocus oreocreticus
Crocus robertianus (the last one)
Crocus serotinus clusii
Crocus serotinus salzmannii forma Major (très grande fleur)
-
thank you Paul, Armin and Ian. Ian, I like your niveus late;
-
Flowering now in the limestone foothills of the western Rhodopi, Crocus pallasii.
Locally abundant in a range of colours and forms.
Despite being a dull day the flowers were fully open and the bees were visiting.
Some great posts while I was away for a few days. These of wild C pallasii and later C cancellatus are just superb. Thanks for your continuing efforts. I once grew a few Crocus pallasii from the Mt Olympus area. they did not seem as easily grown as the Turkish C pallasii :( and I no longer have them. Seed next year?
-
Curiously here, some early species give again. Certain are very late, others early. Curious !
Crocus cartwrightianus Albus pure white form,
Crocus kotschyanus, nice marked form
Crocus longiflorus
Dom - very nice plants & photos. Your 'Crocus cartwrightianus Albus' appears to be the horticultural form which is actually C. hadriaticus - it has a yellow throat which C. cartwrightianus never has.
-
Thyank's all for all this late flowering species, ... but are they late or early species ?? ;D ;D
Dom, very nice species , we really need to meet together one day ;)
-
Gerry, you are probably right, but stigma is far longer than all my different forms of hadriaticus. I had them from seeds
Fred, yes indeed ! It becomes necessary to see us ! We are few in France to apreciate bulbs at this point, and Vienne is not so far of Pontoux. Quelle passion à partager ! Merci à toi
Dom
-
Ian,Tony,Paul and Armin thanks for your comments, good to know you guys enjoy seeing wild crocus as much as we do!
We are hoping the BG forms of pallasii will grow well from a spring seed collection and may be easier in cultivation than
the Greek forms perhaps!
-
What a wonderful crocus trip, Chris and Simon - wish I could have been with you :o
Dominique your bicoloured medius will probably not come back. I had such an effect on Crocus banaticus some
years ago. Just for one autumn and in the next season the plant was not seen again :-[
-
Great shots from the wild keep them coming please
Here is a favourite of mine in the garden. A late flowering (Nov) form of niveus. The last being a close up
Very beautiful photos of a very beautiful species Ian.
I see that they do quite well outside in your area.
I grow all my nievus forms in big pots under cold glass. But they've multiplied very well during last years and I don't have enough space to grow them all inside in pots. So I want to try this species outside, but worried about how they will survive our winter conditions. It snows quite well in winter in our area, but during February the temperature sometimes gets -25 for a week or two. What do you think, will it be O.K. for this species provided a good snow cover?
-
Thanks :)
The last tranche of C.cancellatus mazziaricus pics, again showing the wide variations of colours and forms seen.
RE: C.niveus we have them growing outside here in the mountains in Bulgaria! They have snow for 3 months in winter and cold also from the frosts we have before and after the snows. So why not give some a try outside, maybe under dwarf shrubs-as ours are grown. ;)
-
Great shots from the wild keep them coming please
Here is a favourite of mine in the garden. A late flowering (Nov) form of niveus. The last being a close up
Very beautiful photos of a very beautiful species Ian.
I see that they do quite well outside in your area.
I grow all my nievus forms in big pots under cold glass. But they've multiplied very well during last years and I don't have enough space to grow them all inside in pots. So I want to try this species outside, but worried about how they will survive our winter conditions. It snows quite well in winter in our area, but during February the temperature sometimes gets -25 for a week or two. What do you think, will it be O.K. for this species provided a good snow cover?
Zhirair in the UK such temperatures are almost unknown but I think as Simon suggests these are OK in Bulgaria in theory it should work OK for you. In fact I would think that they might be just as exposed if not more to the cold in pots under cold glass. Worth a try with a few corms I should think
-
I grow all my nievus forms in big pots under cold glass. But they've multiplied very well during last years and I don't have enough space to grow them all inside in pots. So I want to try this species outside, but worried about how they will survive our winter conditions. It snows quite well in winter in our area, but during February the temperature sometimes gets -25 for a week or two. What do you think, will it be O.K. for this species provided a good snow cover?
Zhirair, I've tried niveus outside last winter, when the temperatures reached -20°C and less for some weeks and they survived.
They had a snowcover of 15cm. Without snowcover I'm sure the leaves would have died in the cold, but probably the corms
will survive. I would give'em a try if you have enough.
-
Great shots from the wild keep them coming please
Here is a favourite of mine in the garden. A late flowering (Nov) form of niveus. The last being a close up
Very beautiful photos of a very beautiful species Ian.
I see that they do quite well outside in your area.
I grow all my nievus forms in big pots under cold glass. But they've multiplied very well during last years and I don't have enough space to grow them all inside in pots. So I want to try this species outside, but worried about how they will survive our winter conditions. It snows quite well in winter in our area, but during February the temperature sometimes gets -25 for a week or two. What do you think, will it be O.K. for this species provided a good snow cover?
Zhirair in the UK such temperatures are almost unknown but I think as Simon suggests these are OK in Bulgaria in theory it should work OK for you. In fact I would think that they might be just as exposed if not more to the cold in pots under cold glass. Worth a try with a few corms I should think
C. niveus is a lowland plant & experience with it outside seems very variable & somewhat unpredictable. I'm surprised to hear that it does well in the conditions which prevail in Bulgaria. Here in Brighton it does not thrive outside. Severe cold is very rare here & the problem, I think, is winter wet. In the 3 year crocus trials at Wisley in the early 1990s C. niveus performed poorly, a fact attributed to the poor sandy soil.
I guess one just has to try & see how they do
-
Just a day away from the Forum and again another avalanch of gorgeous Crocus pix has hit this thread !
Simon and Chris, great pix from the wild !!! Beautiful Bulgaria !! 8)
Dominique, great series of wonderful Crocus !! I'm particularly impressed with your big clumps outside in the garden !! :o
-
I'll second your thoughts Luc, everyday I look at these crocus pages and marvel at the different habitats and forms - I had no idea the season was so strong for them in November.....do you have any in your garden?
-
Just a few, Robin. C. boryi, ligusticus(formerly medius), speciosus and that's about it.
The others I'm trying to grow and multiply in pots before I try them outside... :-\
I consider myself an apprentice Croconut... ;D
-
Great shots from the wild keep them coming please
Here is a favourite of mine in the garden. A late flowering (Nov) form of niveus. The last being a close up
Very beautiful photos of a very beautiful species Ian.
I see that they do quite well outside in your area.
I grow all my nievus forms in big pots under cold glass. But they've multiplied very well during last years and I don't have enough space to grow them all inside in pots. So I want to try this species outside, but worried about how they will survive our winter conditions. It snows quite well in winter in our area, but during February the temperature sometimes gets -25 for a week or two. What do you think, will it be O.K. for this species provided a good snow cover?
Zhirair in the UK such temperatures are almost unknown but I think as Simon suggests these are OK in Bulgaria in theory it should work OK for you. In fact I would think that they might be just as exposed if not more to the cold in pots under cold glass. Worth a try with a few corms I should think
C. niveus is a lowland plant & experience with it outside seems very variable & somewhat unpredictable. I'm surprised to hear that it does well in the conditions which prevail in Bulgaria. Here in Brighton it does not thrive outside. Severe cold is very rare here & the problem, I think, is winter wet. In the 3 year crocus trials at Wisley in the early 1990s C. niveus performed poorly, a fact attributed to the poor sandy soil.
I guess one just has to try & see how they do
Gerry Niveus seems to do OK outside for me but it is grown in the highest part of a scree and is very well drained. It is one of the few autumn species along with tournefortii that I grow well in the garden. When I made this small raised area bed I had only grit/gravel and composted bark and was too lazy to go and get some John Innes (stupid I know) but after a shaky start a lot of things seem to do OK in this part of the bed now
-
Fantastic crocus pictures everybody. I especially like your ochroleucus pictures, Dominique. It grew well at the Cruickshank Garden when I was working there. I have some in a pot but Idon't think it will flower this year.
Flowering in my greenhouse just now Crocus caspius. It has multiplied up from a single corm given to the Cruickshank Garden in 1982. It was originally collected in Iran by the late Primrose Warburg. It increases well and also sets seed.
-
Stuuning crocus, Roma... and really cool striped bug!
-
Thanks for your comments related to crocus niveus.
Another further question.
Crocus niveus under cold glass vegetate all the winter and spring and forms very huge tulip-sized corms (if planted in big pots). In garden, as far as I understand, it can overwinter under snow cover withour leaf damage and continue to vegetate in spring keeping on forming and growing its replacement corms. Am I right?
-
Fantastic crocus pictures everybody
Yours included, Roma, a great photo too!
-
Thanks for your comments related to crocus niveus.
Another further question.
Crocus niveus under cold glass vegetate all the winter and spring and forms very huge tulip-sized corms (if planted in big pots). In garden, as far as I understand, it can overwinter under snow cover withour leaf damage and continue to vegetate in spring keeping on forming and growing its replacement corms. Am I right?
The Crocus niveus I have outside here have been unprotected for the last 2 years. We have had good snow cover for these 2 winters and the leaves have been completely undamaged by the 3months they were under snow (when air temps were as low as minus26C, or by the frosts we had either side of snow cover- to about minus9C. The leaves remained on the plants for until midspring when they dried off and were removed. The groups of corms have bulked up and been able to produce flowers over a period of 4 weeks this autumn so I assume the corms made a good size during their growing period.
What will happen in a cold snow free winter I do not yet know - and certainly don't want to find out!
-
Few hours ago returned from Turkey. Trip was good, a lot of new information, beautiful crocuses, but bad weather, bad pictures (mostly my own faults - not understand why). Every day rains, not far was horrible floods with victims (watched in TV). Usually first half of day was more or less acceptable but in afternoon started heavy rains, even horrible rains, hail and thunderstorms. Flowers in most cases were closed due wetness and cold, a lot damaged during night and sometimes I sat at some bloom waiting for it will open at least partly when some sun shined through clouds. I will try in few entries to show all what I saw. In this entry Crocus cancellatus subsp. mazziaricus from near Uzuncaburc (Silifke district). Here it grew on quite stony ground between sparse pinewood, only on open spots. Population was quite uniform, mostly varied petal color. Another population seen later was more variable but about this in another entry. I will go day by day.
In Latvia is winter. Minus 6 C now, I still didn't saw my flowers in my greenhouses as I returned in darkness.
Janis
-
Hi Janis,
Pity to hear that the weather during your trip in Turkey was so bad!
-
Hi Janis,
A shame the weather was not so good.
Great to see yet another population of Crocus cancellatus subsp. mazziaricus
Look forward to seeing the more variable population,
in Greece too we found some populations to be more variable that others.
Sympathise with your return to -6c in Latvia, our return to the Stara PLanina was in snow!
-
I think I have finally tracked down my missing Crous asumaniae behind the patch of Crocus niveus I showed here a few weeks ago. I am open to alternative ids ;)
-
I went to Turkey for one Crocus - the strange plant pictured and showed on forum in 2008 (?) by Kees as possible hybrid between cancellatus and kotschyanus. I thought that it is new species and even took with me herbarium press to make type herbarium for it. We came to Antalya (late evening) and next day passed driving to East by coast in direction to Mersin. As windguru.cz informed that on Tuesday is expected heavy rains in this district I kept as reserve variant cultural program visiting ruins of Uzuncaburc and Silifke. We found acceptable hotel at Erdemli and as weather broadcast predicted - in night started very heavy rain with thunderstorm. So we went for "cultural program" next morning, but by the way found nice population of C. cancellatus mazziaricus shown you yesterday. Really day turned very nice but in evening mountains again were covered with almost black clouds. In night again was heavy rain but morning was bright. So we drove to village Tepekoy (see picture). Near that we found several populations of beautiful Crocus kotschyanus subsp. kotschyanus growing mostly in grass but more on sides of earlier ploughed fields. Some were very beautiful with very deep colored throat. Unfortunately heavy showers washed away surface of ground roads opening basic rock and making roads unusable for our car. So we walked up in hills for around 2 hours and found extremely beautiful specimen of C. kotschyanus (last picture). Unfortunately again clouds became denser and denser forcing us to return to car. Fortunately halfway down we were picked up by one local driver with better car and reached our car together with heavy shower. So I didn't found this mysterious crocus but later discoveries showed that most possibly it is only unusual form of C. cancellatus, but about that in later entries.
Janis
-
What a wonderful trip, Janis.
Today I found a strange Crocus kotschyanus: It flowered last week and today I found, that the leaves
are already 5cm long. Have you ever seen such a kotschyanus? The corms came from a 1989 collection
made by Helmut Kerndorff in the Eastern Adana region. Since that time they were cultivated in his garden,
perhaps it's just a hybrid, but the flower looked like 100% kotschyanus. Sorry, I have no photo because
I thought it's just a simple kotschyanus, before I found the leaves.
-
What a wonderful trip, Janis.
Today I found a strange Crocus kotschyanus: It flowered last week and today I found, that the leaves
are already 5cm long. Have you ever seen such a kotschyanus? The corms came from a 1989 collection
made by Helmut Kerndorff in the Eastern Adana region. Since that time they were cultivated in his garden,
perhaps it's just a hybrid, but the flower looked like 100% kotschyanus. Sorry, I have no photo because
I thought it's just a simple kotschyanus, before I found the leaves.
I too have a similar Crocus kotschyanus collection. Today there is one flower, leafless but the three corms which flowered earlier have leaves about 5cm long now. Perhaps variation that goes un-noticed in the wild ... we are looking for flowers and the leaves after flowers would be easily missed, especially in grassy places, grass long and green in autumn. Possible though that this is a feature of cultivation away from the wild places, with warm, wet weather after flowering encouraging early leaf development.
-
What a wonderful trip, Janis.
Today I found a strange Crocus kotschyanus: It flowered last week and today I found, that the leaves
are already 5cm long. Have you ever seen such a kotschyanus? The corms came from a 1989 collection
made by Helmut Kerndorff in the Eastern Adana region. Since that time they were cultivated in his garden,
perhaps it's just a hybrid, but the flower looked like 100% kotschyanus. Sorry, I have no photo because
I thought it's just a simple kotschyanus, before I found the leaves.
I too have a similar Crocus kotschyanus collection. Today there is one flower, leafless but the three corms which flowered earlier have leaves about 5cm long now. Perhaps variation that goes un-noticed in the wild ... we are looking for flowers and the leaves after flowers would be easily missed, especially in grassy places, grass long and green in autumn. Possible though that this is a feature of cultivation away from the wild places, with warm, wet weather after flowering encouraging early leaf development.
Crocus cancellatus normally is leafless in autumn but during this trip I found a pair of plants into large population of subsp. mazziaricus with 3 cm long leaves (in wild) whilst all others were completely leafless.
Janis
-
Speaking of early growth, I've got some pots of C. baytopiorum which are already coming up, quite well developed too with buds clearly visible. In fact, a few things seem early this year, perhaps it's the very mild Autumn we're having so far.
Alex
-
Speaking of early growth, I've got some pots of C. baytopiorum which are already coming up, quite well developed too with buds clearly visible. In fact, a few things seem early this year, perhaps it's the very mild Autumn we're having so far.
Alex
Few years ago Crocus michelsonii bloomed with me in mid November.
Janis
-
I continue my travel report with pictures. Today I'm dedicated to Crocus nerimaniae. In spring 2008 I collected 10 corms of this beautiful species and this autumn it bloomed for first time in my collection and... I was shocked for 4 specimens clearly showing virus infection. Similar reports I got from my trip partners. Presence of virus infected plants in wild populations isn't great surprise for me - I saw Allium, Fritillaria, Tulipa, juno Iris etc. But so great percentage. Incredible, so I wanted to see wild population at flowering time and I was shocked seeing groups where 90% of flowers showed more or less heavy virus infection, there were groups with ~10%, but in average almost 50% of flowers looked suspicious. May be some were for rain damage but in any case nowhere else I saw such degree. And they were plants with expressed symptoms, certainly must be a lot infected which still didn't show infection.
Question is about agent of distribution. It is place where I saw highest number of beehives. Every more or less flat spot were covered with beehives. The honey is harvested from greenflies parasiteing on Pinus trees and from Erica flowers just starting blooming. There are theories that bees are distributing viruses but I don't think so and both my colleagues (both biologists, one famous lily breeder) agree with me that bees didn't work as virus distribution agent. Most possibly there are plenty of greenflies specialised on other plants, may be on Crocuses, too.
There will be two entries - on first I will show good nerimaniae, on another some variability and virus infected plants. Crocus nerimaniae has little variation. Mostly outside base color from deep purple to light yellow with darker brown stripes. I saw only 2 specimens with striped flowers and 2 almost whitish, with only slight lilac shade. Others more or less uniform.
At end of this entry I want to warn crocophiles don't introduce Crocus nerimaniae from wild - look for nursery grown stocks raised up from seeds. My stock raised from seeds collected by some Czech seed collector at Labranda before description of this species as seeds of C. biflorus s.l. which later turned as C. nerimaniae were absolutely free from virus infection.
Janis see this and next entry
-
Next entry with Crocus nerimaniae - at first variation, after that virus infection.
Janis
-
Janis, my own plants of cancellatus are flowering without leaves, too. But the leaves appear a few days after
flowering - just like in my strange kotschyanus. But on the standard kotschyanus I have never seen leaves
before spring.
By the way: Great photos of Crocus nerimaniae. Must try to get some seeds of this wonderful species in future.
-
By the way: Great photos of Crocus nerimaniae. Must try to get some seeds of this wonderful species in future.
Great photos of Crocus nerimaniae. Must try to get some seeds of this wonderful species in future. :)
Once again, many thanks Janis for sharing these observations.
-
Janis, very nice pictures from Cr.nerimaniae. Not good news, virus-plants in nature.
Here some pics in my greenhouse:
Crocus veneris in two forms
'' pallasii ssp.pallasii, Bulgaria
'' thomasii, Italy, without pale yellow throat
What is well the difference between Cr.pallasii and thomasii ?
-
WOW to the C.nerimaniae. How common is virus in wild populations of any Crocus?
Flowering here now on the second warm sunny day following a week of cold wet winter:
The first C.ochroleucus
C.cartwrightianus a later flowering group
C.boryi C.hadriaticus
C.laevigatus 'Fontaneyi'
C.pallasii to my mind is quite distinct to C.thomasii, but then I also think that C.pallasii pallasii from Bulgaria and Greece also look quite distinct from those found in Turkey ;)
-
Simon,
your boryi is possibly a hadriaticus.
Cr boryi have white antheren.
-
What is well the difference between Cr.pallasii and thomasii ?
Throat of C. thomasii flowers allways can be characterised as yellow, at least some yellow is presented. C. pallasii has white throat, rarely bluish, greyish shaded but without yellow.
Janis
-
Simon,
your boryi is possibly a hadriaticus.
Cr boryi have white antheren.
Thanks, Dirk.
-
Now further day by day our trip. After leaving of Labranda the rest of day was dedicated to "cultural" program - we visited ruins of Heraklion where most impressive was Narcissus serotinus in full bloom between "roman" stones (and in other spots without concurrent vegetation). The best looking terrace restaurant forced us to wait more than hour before our ordered meal was served (they went to mountains to look for lamb, to make ordered kebab ;D). Further on roadside were marvellous spots of Sternbergia in full bloom and excellent Cyclamen mirabile (?) clumps. Unfortunately for long dinner we reached Ephesus (one of the greatest monuments of greek-roman time in Turkey) quite late and had only 1,5 hours to see all those wonders, before it became too dark. After that we drove in darkness to Pammukale - another marvellous place for its unique nature monument - hot (I would use word -warm) springs and for ruins of old roman city, too. But morning greeted us with deep fog, dark clouds and just we finished quick look on most impressive monuments started heavy rain. So we started our way back to South coast. Fortunately after passing of ridge (we missed visiting of interesting crocus place, too heavy rain) clouds became thinner and when we turned in direction to Dirmil pass on roadside I saw something lilac (first idea - Colchicum). It turned most marvellous population of Crocus cancellatus subsp. mazziaricus of greatest variability. You can judge it by pictures. Give your attention not only to color of flower segments but to degree of stigma divisions - from many-threaded to only slightly cutted at tips and as extreme only three branched. Check the base color, too. - from white till deep lilac. If I would see alone plant on picture 09 - I would think that it is C. mathewii, but picture is made very far from C. mathewii localities, and on picture 10 you can see its corm tunics. Presence of all those variants in one population growing in open meadow with sparse shrubs and little grass shows how great variation could be in one species in one population and how difficult could be identification by flower picture only and by single cultivated plant without seeing natural population. Sorry for quality of some pictures - I accidentally changed settings of my camera and there many pictures were overexposed and I used photoshop to make them something informative, but details are lost. Pity (my usual mistake).
Janis
-
In following days from Crocus cancellatus complex we saw only quite uniform subsp. lycius. There are picture selection from all localities as everywhere variability was limited to amount of outside stripes at base of flower segments, color of stigmatic branches - mostly typical yellow, but sometimes even deep orange. Usually style branches were +/- at level of anther tips, flowers generally smaller than in mazziaricus. In nature no problems to identify. It tend to pine forest sides, it grew in forest, too but more abundant is just on forest sides. The greatest number we found in place where forest was cutted for high-power electroline. Ground usually very stony, in case of mazziaricus it is more soil-like. By water drops on some flowers you can judge how wet and rainy was weather during our trip, but there were few sunny moments in first half of day.
Janis
-
Hello Janis,
Thanks for all the beautifully pictures and intersting information,sorry to learn about the bad weather You had to face while on your trip over there,wish I was there,,,!! ::) ::)
Have You send out Your new Bulblist 2010 in the post as yet.
Cheers
Guy
-
We passed night in Kankal - in excellent 2-star hotel (Kelebek hotel) on roadside for price 50,- Euro for 3 persons in 2 rooms. Evening meal was superb made by hotel owner and his wife and we were served by their son. 3-dish meal cost us another 50,- Euro together including bottle of quite good Turkish wine. In night again were heavy rain but morning greeted us with bright sun and we drove in search for Crocus mathewii. As you can see on most of pictures flowers are covered by water-drops. Only few flowers were open. Here you see some variability in color of inner base and in color of flower segments. I mostly liked those with lilac shaded flower segments. I didn't find any with white inner base, the palest base you can see in one of pictures. One of the most impressive, unfortunately flower segment substance was washed out by last rains, was vegetative clump formed by 7-9 corms. Crocus mathewii locally was quite abundant but in many places there was occasional findings only. It mostly grew in deep grass and on sides of solitary shrubs.
Janis
-
Hello Janis,
Have You send out Your new Bulblist 2010 in the post as yet.
Cheers
Guy
I hope to post my new catalogue in february, may be end of January.
Janis
-
Janis süperb pictures from wild. Lots of admirable forms :o
I wish to be there also but :(
It is very bat news about C. nerimaniae. The virused plants that you have all were around Labranda? This crocus has not large distributions. We don't have this crocus in another provence!
-
It is very bat news about C. nerimaniae. The virused plants that you have all were around Labranda? This crocus has not large distributions. We don't have this crocus in another provence!
Ibrahim,
We explored quite large population behind Labranda ruins, we didn't go further up to other known localities. I simply wanted pictures from wild and to check - did my plants got virus in cultivation or they braught virus with them from nature. I know that it is very local species of quite specific growing conditions. There are not many so open places in pine forest at so low altitude in other parts of Turkey. Fortunately seedlings of it are healthy. I suppose that poor seed crop from C. nerimaniae is caused mostly just by presence of virus in plants what quite often reduce seed crops in Iridaceae. My experience with several Juno irises showed that they become sterile when got virus infection. Muscari on other side even heavy infected are fertile.
Janis
-
Road went higher and higher and soon Crocus mathewii disappear from explored sites and left only Crocus cancellatus lycius, growing almost everywhere so we turned by side road down back to coast. Next stop we made when I from fast driving car noted again white crocus on roadside slope which in shape of closed buds looked slightly different from so common lycius. As all the time periodically dropped some drops of rain, flowers were closed and after long search I found a pair slightly open which showed its three-branched stigma and color of inside. I named it Crocus pallasii, but population was quite unusual. If usually pallasii is more or less lilac, only rarely you can find pure white specimens, in this population all plants were white only few slightly lilac shaded. If it wouldn't be find so far from Akseki I would be in doubt - is it pallasii or asumaniae? Although Brian Mathew in personal communication expressed opinion that may be asumaniae better could be regarded as variant of pallasii. It grew only on very open roadside slope, higher under pine trees I spotted only C. cancellatus lycius, rarely foundable between C. pallasii, too, but easy separable by shape of flower - much slender and longer than in lycius. Soil - very stony clay.
I and my friends were surprised for absence of any Colchicum during our trip. We just talked about this when on roadside under large pine trees in dry gully I spotted first Colchicum. It turned to be very widespread Colchicum variegatum. So I'm adding a pair of its pictures, too.
Janis
-
Now last entry from our trip to Turkey. Next day we found only everywhere growing Crocus cancellatus lycius but nice addition was Colchicums sanguicolle and decaisneii, may two species growing together as some specimens named as decaisneii had much larger flowers with wider and more rounded flower segments. Unfortunately I accidentally changed my camera settings to monochrome and got only black-white pictures. The last day we went to place where many years ago at peak of summer I collected a pair corms of Crocus pallasii. There it was in full flowers now scattered on very stony N-NE faced slope, mostly between stones, very rarely inside very spiny shrubs. Population was very uniform in color - generally light lilac and I saw only one or two relatively whitish specimens and only when we were driving out of valley I suddenly noted one dark lilac group of 3 flowers forcing me to stop car for additional picture. As you can see from habitat shots - this crocus growth between Roman ruins, too.
We returned to Antalya through Karlik Dag hoping to see some Crocuses there, too, but left with nothing. Few years ago I crossed this ridge in spring and found no one Crocus, too, although some spots looked quite good for Crocuses. May be we were not in best time and best places there. It allways is great luck to catch the exact moment. Really we were very successful. We found everything what we wanted to see, made a lot of pictures, few you saw on my entries.
In home crocuses still are blooming although days are very dark and flowers stay closed, so no pictures can be added. Collected bodies of many mice who enjoyed nice pink meal left by me in greenhouses and replaced new poison in empty tubes. Weather something too wet and dark, a lot of job taking away old flowers which ended blooming during 10 days of my absence. On Tuesday I'm going to hospital so I again will be out of forum for some time.
Janis
-
:o - Wow - so many superb crocus in its natural enviroment!
Thank you very much, Janis.
-
Thank's janis for all this beauties !!
And hope nothing too serious for you at the hospital
-
Janis, your photographs of crocus in the wild are quite wonderful and to be able to understand the differences between them through your observations makes them come to life. I love your crocus pages altogether, there is always so much to enjoy, thank you :)
-
First time I have spare money I'll be heading to Turkey :D
-
This super photo just in from my friend Jim Kee in the USA of his Crocus pallasii..... looking really smart with it's spikey neighbours!
...click the pic to enlarge it.....
-
Congratulations to your friend, Maggi, who would have thought of growing that combination but boy does it work - wonderful subtle colouring and textures :)
-
Janis, Thomas and of course all other croconuts,
Herewith the first flowers of Crocus hyemalis, from a collection around Ajlun (North of Amman), Jordan.
Not as showy of those from Israel, but botanical very interesting.
Hendrik
-
And now a look inside the flower of C. hyemalis
-
Lovely plants Hendrik especially the darker one
-
Lovely plants Hendrik especially the darker one
Agree, darker is excellent. My plants still didn't started blooming.
Janis
-
Wonderful photos Janis. The vegetative clump of C. mathewii especially. :P
Would you please send me an electronic copy of your catalogue when ready? I won't be able to buy bulbs for myself but I may be able to get a little somethings for a few "thank yous" for European friends. Besides, I love wallowing in misery at all the things I can't import. :'(
-
When I was clearing away some dead crocus leaves yesterday I was thrilled to find 6 pods on C. vallicola. It has never had seed before, this is the first year that more than my original single, have flowered. Most of the seed had fallen already but I was able to retrieve it with a teaspoon and a pair of tweezers.
-
Ah, yes, the teaspoon and pair of tweeezer trick.... yes, indeed, we're pretty good at that one, too! Beats me how you can be watching seedpods like a hawk and then they sneak out when yor back is turned for 5 minutes! Mind you, some of the crocus are clever at keeping their pods very low and out of notice!
-
Last Autumn flowers from me.
About 20 pages back, including Crocus October, I showed some Crocus cartwrightianus white forms ex CEH collection. Some other whites have started. These came from Potterton's a few years ago.
-
What a high to end the season on Mark, lovely photos too :)
-
the last autumn heroes
-
ochroleucus are one of my favourite autumn Crocus. I must put some in a trough next year
-
Crocus niveus
From Archibald seed (pop. ref. 348.800); ex JCA5132, Greece, Messinia, S of Kalamata, nr. Stavropigio,100m., olive grove, clay on limestone.
-
Gerry
Very nice plants. I hope you have seeds of yours
Dom
-
Great shots. Your bulbs are doing better than mine. I only had two flowers ???
While changing over the bulbs there was a huge root coming out of my niveus and easily the size of the clip of a Bic pen. What was it?
-
Still flowers somewhat in my meadow.
-
Gerry
Very nice plants. I hope you have seeds of yours
Dom
Thanks Dom - I'll get busy with the paintbrush though C. niveus has never yet produced seed with me
Great shots. Your bulbs are doing better than mine. I only had two flowers ???
While changing over the bulbs there was a huge root coming out of my niveus and easily the size of the clip of a Bic pen. What was it?
Thanks Mark - the shot had little to do with me, by chance the light was just right.
I suspect your plants were not planted deeply enough & this was a contractile root attempting to pull them further down.
-
Still flowers somewhat in my meadow.
Franz - Your meadow plants are usually wonderful but I'm sorry to say that your C. medius looks as though it is virused.
-
Still flowers somewhat in my meadow.
You ligusticus (medius) is heavy virus-infected. Destroy it's corms as soon as possible to save others from infection!
Janis
-
Thanks for the advice.
-
This weekend I have visited a location of C. speciosus subsp. xantholaimos from north west Turkey. I was planning for last week but because of rain I could do this weekend. I would like to share a few pics.
The size of flower is very close to C. pulchellus. It was easier to identify by membranous corm tunic.
It lives in the oak forest by road sides with small populations.
C. speciosus subsp. xantholaimos
-
Very nice pictures. Corm tunics in pulchellus and speciosus are similar and size of flowers could be similar,too, but most easy to seperate by color of anthers which in pulchellus allways(?) are white (never saw other), but in speciosus yellow, although in some Caucasian speciosus they can be nearly white. Then shape of flower and pattern of stripes can something help, and flowers of Caucasian speciosus is much larger in size (usually).
Janis
-
Janis what I mean; some thimes standart C. speciosus might have also yelowish throat as you showed before but this subsp. of speciosus has a soft membranous tunic while the C. speciosus subsp. speciosus has eggshell tunic. (At least mine C. speciosus subsp. speciosus has bigger size than this subsp. xantholaimos and eggshell tunic) For sure it easy to separate from C. puchellus by yellow anthers.
From the vains or stripes I can not see realy difference!
Here is my C. speciosus subsp. speciosus corm to see the different between.
-
Good to see some variation in the wild C.s.xantholaimos, Ibrahim.
Here recent rains, and cooler weather, have reminded our lowland populations of Crocus pallasii pallasii, that it is time to flower. Growing on limestone, or sandstone, several of the populations were large enough to show a wide range of colour forms and petal shapes. Albino forms were also present- suffice to say they look nothing like the white form of C.pallasii shown on the website of a bulb supplier ;)
The pictures are an attempt to show the variation in the 2 largest populations. The first in a hillside pasture under oak, beech and pine; the second in a gritty limestone brown earth soil, between a railway embankment and a road.
-
We are assuming the wide range of colours and forms of petals means that increase must be principally through seed. Indeed clumps of plants in flower have not been seen at any of the sites we have visited. Where 2 plants are flowering close to each other, flower colour is usually different- though similar- possibly implying both are from the same seedpod.
There was evidence in some areas that bulbs had been dug up by animals- though it was difficult to tell from the size of the holes which animal had been doing this. Muscari bulbs were found on the soil surface around these holes.
-
Several plants were seen at the first site, which were 'near albinos' being white with grey markings and grey outer throats. We have no pictures of these due to heavy mist and strong winds at their location. Later true albinos were seen which were white with no veining at all. The picture shows a flower which is going over, but which was in the best condition of the ones seen.
-
Simon very nice C. pallasii forms from wild. I have also this species in my side of border but I am afraid that I will miss to see them in best for this autum. After two weeks I will be arount there!
I want to ask you a special question. Do you have C. hadriaticus in Bulgarian flora or in your side of boderline? Because a friend of mine signal to me this species which is not seen yet by me!
-
Excellent pallasii, Simon. Similar to those from Crimea in variability of throat color. Only Crimean whites seem to be with wider petals.
Janis
-
Thanks, Ibrahim and Janis. Interesting to hear that the Crimean whites were broader petalled, all of the ones we saw were narrow petalled. I would love to understand the genetics involved in the variation of flower size, shape and colour in this species.
The final pics show flower density in the second area and a few other colour forms.
-
Here is my C. pallasii subsp. pallasii from European Turkey but picture is from last year.
-
Ibrahim, that is a stunning photo of C. pallasii subsp. pallasii, so well defined.
Simon, I'm really finding your discoveries fascinating and informative, thanks - very good to know preferred soil types where these crocus grow.
-
Wonderfull pics everyones !
It's so nice to see plants in their habitat :) even with bad weather conditions ;D
congratualtions to photograph braving the storms !
-
Thanks again, Ibrahim. Good to see yours has the same good markings and shape.
-
The following winter/spring flowering Crocus in my collection have noses and leaves showing.
?corsicus, danfordiae, biflorus, angustifolius, chrysanthus, x paulinae, pestalozzae, baytopiorum and vernus heuffelianus
-
Nice pics, Simon! Very close to Crimean pallasii pallasii - I agree with Janis! But in Crimea there is not much grass around, It grows there just in already bare soil and in October! ;D
-
Nice pic, Dimitri. Here we have seen them growing in bare soil further south. In our area they are mainly in seasonally grazed grassland. What is the other bulb there in leaf in your pic? Is it Sternbergia colchiciflora?
-
I shall probably get drummed out of the Forum for saying this, so I shall say it very quietly, I am getting thoroughly bored by autumn-flowering crocuses.
-
maybe not quite so quietly...... Lesley, forget a Christmas card this year.... it's not going to happen! :'( :P
-
I shall probably get drummed out of the Forum for saying this, so I shall say it very quietly, I am getting thoroughly bored by autumn-flowering crocuses.
Lesley, Have mercy with us in the north - foggy, plenty of rain and cold instead of your joyful spring. Why not beeing happy with a few autumnal crocus flowers!
Gerd
-
Of course you're right Gerd, it was selfish of me to wish your autumn colour to go away. Here I am surrounded by irises, dianthus, campanulas, lewisias and hundreds of others that I shouldn't grudge you your little spots of purple and white. Mea culpa. Please forgive me. Besides, how can I go on living if Maggi doesn't send me a card at Christmas? :'(
-
I'm sure the Croconuts will forgive you your momentary lapse of taste, Lesley ...... I'm considering it .... ::)
It is such a pure delight to be able to go out to the bulbhouse to see the wee crocus in all their delicate beauty in these days which are, lately, all too often dark and wet.... in the garden all are flattened :P
The very notion of the vistas of hundreds of the little souls in their natural habitat is enough to left my spirits.... :) :)
-
Simon! It is Scilla autumnalis leaves, not sternbergia :'( :'(
-
Thanks, Dimitri- yours have broader leaves than the ones we have here!
-
Crocus laevigatus yellow form. This flower is no longer gold like when it first appeared above ground. The colour has faded.
-
Crocus laevigatus yellow form. This flower is no longer gold like when it first appeared above ground. The colour has faded.
Nice photoshop on last picture, Mark ;D. Compare covering-stone color on picture with white and with yellow flower. (I'm again in home from hospital, hope all will be Ok for long time!)
Janis
-
Welcome home Janis; I wish you a fast and complete recovery.
Very nice laevigatus Mark. Did you grow this from seed?
-
Actually some Crocus in flower.
Crocus hyemalis and Crocus laevigatus were given to me by very generous friends.
The Crocus cambessedesii are two of my favorite seedlings of this species.
-
Actually some Crocus in flower.
Crocus hyemalis and Crocus laevigatus were given to me by very generous friends.
The Crocus cambessedesii are two of my favorite seedlings of this species.
Superb cambessedesii!!! Never had such excellent color on my plants, especially the lilac one but that with purple throat is of equal beauty!
Janis
-
Yes all blue cambessedesii is very nice.
The darkest of my laevigatus above was taken during the last few rays of day light. This made it a lovely colour. I'm thinking what I wrote is misleading. The dark emerging bud can be seen in Crocus for ID thread.
I now know where it has come from. It is in a pot with speciosus. The speciosus were supplied as laevigatus by a UK supplier
-
The darkest of my laevigatus above was taken during the last few rays of day light. This made it a lovely colour. I'm thinking what I wrote is misleading. The dark emerging bud can be seen in Crocus for ID thread.
Yes, the hour of day when you make pictures is very important for correct colors. By my experience the best time is morning and evening hours, midday doesn't give so good colors. Usually it is compensate by white balance setting on camera. On your pictures just stone chip color shows that there was problems with white balance. On my camera I use auto-wb, although it isn't the best way, but still it generally works, sometimes colors are better than in vivo but we usually like such pictures. Of course - each camera is different. On my earlier OLYMPUS RLS the colors where horrible and I couldn't correct it in any way, so after half season I changed it to CANON 400 D - excellent camera. Now I'm working with CANON 50D and 400D is used by my wife, but I still think that 400D was better in colors than more advanced 50D. The best is picturing in RAW mode. but then preparing of picture takes so long time, that now I'm picturing only in JPG mode.
Janis
-
Actually some Crocus in flower.
Crocus hyemalis and Crocus laevigatus were given to me by very generous friends.
The Crocus cambessedesii are two of my favorite seedlings of this species.
I agree Janis! Wonderfull cambessedesii! My form is nearly white, purple striped and veined externally; I have never seen such lilac ones.
Hans, I see that you lives on the Balearic Islands. That's the home of cambessedesii. Don't you find them anymore in your country?
Hendrik
-
Crocus laevigatus yellow form. This flower is no longer gold like when it first appeared above ground. The colour has faded.
Mark,
Are you sure that it is laevigatus?
There are white laevigatus, but they are very rare; usually with prominent purple stripes or veins on the exterior.
It's very difficult to see the difference between laevigatus and boryi.
Only examination of the corms tunics can help:
laevigatus: tough, leathery or eggshell-like tunics
boryi: softly papery tunics
Hendrik
-
Crocus laevigatus yellow form. This flower is no longer gold like when it first appeared above ground. The colour has faded.
Mark,
Are you sure that it is laevigatus?
There are white laevigatus, but they are very rare; usually with prominent purple stripes or veins on the exterior.
Hendrik
Rik,
You are right about corm tunics but pure white and nearly white laevigatus are not so rare in nature. I saw many such plants in Peloponnese a year ago. Very rare are with pale lilac base color of flower segments, I saw only one or two such. Here are some pictures showing habitat of laevigatus and some extremes of color observed by me, although in my collection are plants with almost completely purple back of outer segments.
Janis
-
Crocus laevigatus yellow form. This flower is no longer gold like when it first appeared above ground. The colour has faded.
Mark,
Are you sure that it is laevigatus?
Hendrik
From other side - the flowers really are very similar and I never saw creamy laevigatus, but I have by myself boryi with very yellowish back of outer petals in first days of blooming.
Janis
-
Just found picture of my darkest (?) laevigatus.
Janis
-
Crocus laevigatus yellow form. This flower is no longer gold like when it first appeared above ground. The colour has faded.
Mark,
Are you sure that it is laevigatus?
Hendrik
From other side - the flowers really are very similar and I never saw creamy laevigatus, but I have by myself boryi with very yellowish back of outer petals in first days of blooming.
Janis
Indeed Janis; I have too boryi with yellowish back of outer petals, but have never seen this by laevigatus.
Your pale lilacs laevigatus looks marvellous; I didn't know that such forms exist; I have lilac forms with purple stripes and lines, but they are 'Fontenayi'
rik
-
Janis, Mark and Hendrik many thanks for your comments.
Hendrik, here are posted more pictures posted of C.cambessedesii in nature:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2503.msg58525;topicseen#msg58525 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2503.msg58525;topicseen#msg58525) and http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2610.0 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2610.0)
-
Today again at first half of day was sun and something warmer weather and I hurried to greenhouse to check my Crocus pots.
Still marvellously blooms some newcomers of this autumn. I bought several crocuses from Antoine Hoog (France). I was very satisfied with corms supplied by him - size was incredible, I never before had so large crocus corms of those species. It was not easy to place 5 corms in pot of size 12x12 cm and 10 corms looked as fish in cans even placed in 15x15 pot. In Turkey I talked about size of Antoine's corms with my Czech friend Vaclav who works with Dutch companies. His comments sounded incredible - many Dutch companies are throwing away top size corms and for selling left only quite small sized corms. The reason is very simple - in transport box you can place much more small size corms than large sized. By my friend's comments this season incredibly great percentage of corms (he is reseller) came with various fungal infection, in some varieties more than 30% were thrown away. Many came misnamed - as C. chrysanthus varieties he got C. angustifolius
Unfortunately most of varieties received from Antoine Hoog bloomed when weather was not favourable for picturing or I was away, so I can you show only very few with some comments.
The best bloomer now is C. hadriaticus 'Jumbo'. Real jumbo with gigantic flowers and blooming incredibly abundantly. In the pot shown here two thirds of flowers are plucked off due age.
One of crocuses (I bought only two corms) I got without species name as Crocus cultivar 'Purple Heart'. It is very nice, unfortunately I forgot to note how looks its tunics. It something resembles C.mathewii with light lilac tepals, but stigma divides very deep in throat. I still didn't identified species name of this beauty.
The third is the best white form of Crocus pulchellus - cultivar 'Michael Hoog' - it has largest flowers between white pulchellus and is most floriferous. It is quite late for pulchellus, I suppose that reason is that it was not grown previous season here. Newly introduced plants can bloom in different time that same cultivar grown in your collection for years
Janis
-
One of crocuses (I bought only two corms) I got without species name as Crocus cultivar 'Purple Heart'. It is very nice, unfortunately I forgot to note how looks its tunics. It something resembles C.mathewii with light lilac tepals, but stigma divides very deep in throat. I still didn't identified species name of this beauty.
Janis
Janis - could this be a form of C. cartwrightianus?
-
Janis - could this be a form of C. cartwrightianus?
Yes, I think the same, but at present I'm not certain. It looks very similar to another 'Purple Heart' which definitely is cartwrightianus. I got this one several years ago from good grower in UK, but at moment can't find the name of grower, who gave it to me, label faded and in data base it isn't listed. Then I named it 'Purple Heart'. Mine form finished blooming but I'm attaching picture from previous autumn. Now it isn't good situation when Antoine offered in trade another cultivar under the same name.
Janis
-
Janis - your ‘Purple Heart’ looks very like this form of C. cartwrightianus which I had from Norman Stevens (Cambridge Bulbs) some years ago. The photo is from last year.
-
Garry,
It isn't from Norman, but may be it originates from him as looks very similar. I saw it at some exhibition during my lectures in UK (in Scotland???) and asked to exhibitor for some corm. I'm attaching picture from this exhibition. Due artificial light the white is not so pure.
By the way - this autumn I got Crocus banaticus white form selected by Kath Dryden and it looks very, very close (identical?) with variety SNOWDRIFT.
Janis
-
Lovely plants, Gerry and Janis. Is it a wild selection or a cultivated one?
Flowering here now a Crocus from seed collected near Monemvasia. Is it an albino C.cancellatus mazziaricus? The bract and bracteole are tiny compared to the plants we saw in northern Greece.
-
Lovely plants, Gerry and Janis. Is it a wild selection or a cultivated one?
Simon - I don't know anything about the origin of my plant, it came with some other, rather ordinary, forms of C. cartwrightianus. What I do know is that it is very vigorous - I have given away many corms over the years. Sometime ago, during a period of illness, I lost my entire stock apart from one tiny cormlet (this size O). The photo is of this cormlet slowly nursed back to flowering size.
Flowering here now a Crocus from seed collected near Monemvasia. Is it an albino C.cancellatus mazziaricus? The bract and bracteole are tiny compared to the plants we saw in northern Greece.
Your plant from Monemvasia is very attractive. I'm not much good at identifying plants from photos, but I'd hazard a guess that your ID is correct.
-
Lovely plants, Gerry and Janis. Is it a wild selection or a cultivated one?
Flowering here now a Crocus from seed collected near Monemvasia. Is it an albino C.cancellatus mazziaricus? The bract and bracteole are tiny compared to the plants we saw in northern Greece.
I can't see details of bract and bracteole but if both are visible it is C.cancellatus mazziaricus.
Janis
-
Very nice plants Janis and Gerry
-
Janis,
your Cr.cartwrightianus 'Purple Heart' is phantastic.
Here a pure white and a pale blue form from cartwrightianus.
Crocus laevigatus, dark form and a very good grower.
-
Thanks for the comfirmation, Gerry and Janis.
-
Here a pure white and a pale blue form from cartwrightianus.
Crocus laevigatus, dark form and a very good grower.
Regardless of something narrower petals my favourite is just the white form, especially like its greyish throat. C. laevigatus dark seem to be the same as my dark. My plant comes from Thomas H. May be they are identical. Regarding laevigatus - just found in my list that I have golden form of it - got this summer from Australia (Marcus Harvey), so hope normal blooming in 2011. This form originates from Roger Poulet (UK) many years ago. I'm still growing some of his plants, sent me by Roger so long ago that I even don't remember years of their receiving.
Janis
-
Janis and et all,
wunderful croci as always.
Reg. "Purple Heart" I found following. Paul Christians sold a Crocus niveus "Purple Heart".
He writes "This new form was selected from seedlings of Crocus niveus in the Netherlands." "The possibility of a hybrid origin cannot be discounted, but cannot yet be verified either."
No comment :-X
-
Reg. "Purple Heart" I found following. Paul Christians sold a Crocus niveus "Purple Heart".
He writes "This new form was selected from seedlings of Crocus niveus in the Netherlands." "The possibility of a hybrid origin cannot be discounted, but cannot yet be verified either."
Armin, really in bud 'Purple Heart' looks more as niveus and flower close in night and in dark, so in this aspect it tend to be more niveus. but its style is typical cartwrightianus style. I saw a lot of niveus in wild, and style allways was more or less divided at top. The less divided you can see on last picture. They all are made in Peloponnese. 'Purple Heart' could be extreme variation, but there are another feature separating both species - bract and bracteole in niveus usually are greenish or reddish purple spotted (in my plants of very different origin allways greenish), in cartwrightianus they are white and such are in case of 'Purple Heart', too. So may be it is hybrid, may be for that reason Antoine Hoog offers it without species name attached. I'm not receiving Christian's catalogues - as I wrote earlier he is not selling to me and never sent me catalogue. Afraid of competition or that I could find incorrect naming? I don't know.
Janis
-
If 'Purple Heart' is a hybrid between C. niveus & C. cartwrightianus (or another saffron crocus) this would be remarkable given that the recent phylogenetic analysis suggests they are quite distantly related.
-
A late one here,
Crocus laevigatus fontenayi.
-
Janis,
thank you for your detailed reply and judgement. I just remembered to have seen a "Purple Heart" on PC's webside and was surprised about the discription. For me it looks more C. cartwrightianus, too.
Gerry,
I personal support your comment.
Michael,
very beautiful potful of C. leavigatus 8)
-
Some Crocusses in flower outside:
1) Crocus banaticus
2) Crocus longiflorus
3) Crocus niveus
-
If 'Purple Heart' is a hybrid between C. niveus & C. cartwrightianus (or another saffron crocus) this would be remarkable given that the recent phylogenetic analysis suggests they are quite distantly related.
How about C.cartwrightianus x C.hadriaticus?
-
If 'Purple Heart' is a hybrid between C. niveus & C. cartwrightianus (or another saffron crocus) this would be remarkable given that the recent phylogenetic analysis suggests they are quite distantly related.
How about C.cartwrightianus x C.hadriaticus?
Not a bad idea. Both are quite close and cartwrightianus has forms with purple throat, hadriaticus quite rounded flowers.
Janis
-
Given the variation in Crocus cartwrightianus I would put 'Purple Heart' as a variation of the pure species. Here is a white with some purple and a purple with a purple throat. The former breeds a good proportion of identical progeny.
-
The blue veined white cartwrightianus could be my favourite autumn Crocus
-
Given the variation in Crocus cartwrightianus I would put 'Purple Heart' as a variation of the pure species. Here is a white with some purple and a purple with a purple throat. The former breeds a good proportion of identical progeny.
Tony - this was my first thought & it seems to be confirmed by Janis' description of the bract & bracteole. However, he also states that the flower closes at night. While this may not be decisive (some of my C. cartwrightianus close at night while the flower is still 'young') I think it should be taken into consideration. I wonder how 'Purple Heart' behaves as the flower ages? There is also the flower shape - how does this change with age? Finally, Christian lists this plant as C. niveus or a possible hybrid of this. While I am not always convinced by his identifications, I presume he has some reason for naming it thus.
-
While I am not always convinced by his identifications, I presume he has some reason for naming it thus.
I am sure that things that sound unusual sell better ... and perhaps for a higher price?
....why is there not an emoticon for cynical ???
;)
edit by maggi: try this ,Tony.....
[attach=1]
or this....
[attach=2]
-
While I am not always convinced by his identifications, I presume he has some reason for naming it thus.
I am sure that things that sound unusual sell better ... and perhaps for a higher price?
....why is there not an emoticon for cynical ???
;)
edit by maggi: try this ,Tony.....
(Attachment Link)
or this....
(Attachment Link)
Tut tut. When you can have it for a mere £12.50.
-
Returning to Crocus laevigatus I want to show you picture made this spring (11th of March) in KEW BG. It was collected in Greece, Cyclades, Isle of Naxos, at 25m altitude, by Brian Mathew. Really that is the darkest one seen by me and one of the latest, too because at my visit in Kew allmost all crocuses were over, bloomed only very few but this one "autumnal" ;D was at full bloom. It was the first spring blooming laevigatus seen by me, although I know that laevigatus blooms through all winter up to spring, but so late was surprise for me.
Janis
-
Fascinating Janis - I was not aware of the spring flowering forms being in cultivation. I have a couple of forms that sometimes keep flowers until January but only when exposed to cold garden conditions. In pots the flowers are over sooner.
-
Fascinating Janis - I was not aware of the spring flowering forms being in cultivation. I have a couple of forms that sometimes keep flowers until January but only when exposed to cold garden conditions. In pots the flowers are over sooner.
I don't know how Kew keeps those Crocuses in winter, but I think they stay "out" only under glass roof protecting against excessive moisture.
Janis
-
Maybe there are other late forms of C.laevigatus out there on other islands, but they just haven't been 'found' yet.
Tont your blue-centred white C.cartwightianus is beautiful, but is it a garden selection or a wild one. It would be interesting to know where in the species' range it came from if it is from the wild.
-
Maybe there are other late forms of C.laevigatus out there on other islands, but they just haven't been 'found' yet.
Simon - according to Brian Mathew, late flowering forms (mid Feb to early April) occur, & have been collected, on a number of the Cyclades islands (Andros, Naxos & Seriphos) Not too far for you to make a seed collecting trip!
-
Well we do keep promising the car a relaxing trip on a car ferry sometime soon!
-
During a visit to the Peloponnese last week we experienced similar weather to those travelling in Turkey, serious thunderstorms to start with which caused damage and closure of mountain roads resulting in changes to our travel plans then glorious sunshine at the end of our stay.
The following images of Crocus show that most plants were affected by rain damage but still opening as soon as there was a break in the cloud.
Please feel free to correct any that are mis-named but I think they are:-
Crocus boryi
Crocus hadriaticus, many plants across the area, some with huge flowers.
Crocus goulymi in the usual significant nimbers, especially around Areopoli and Monemvassia.
Crocus niveus, a bit late for this and only a few plants left in flower by the road to Pirgos Dirou.
Crocus boryi, probably the Crocus most commonly encountered on this trip.
The last two images are of what I am advised is an aberrant form of Crocus hadriaticus which I found near Mt Didima.
-
It is really super to hear from all you travelling folk.... I hope you are cheered to know that
the weather was equally bad here most of that time but if you had stayed here you wouldn't have seen the flowers!
Good to see you managed to squeeze in the odd cyclamen, among all those great crocus , Melvyn. ;)
-
Maybe there are other late forms of C.laevigatus out there on other islands, but they just haven't been 'found' yet.
Tony your blue-centred white C.cartwightianus is beautiful, but is it a garden selection or a wild one. It would be interesting to know where in the species' range it came from if it is from the wild.
Simon - it is 2nd generation that I have raised ex a CEH collection, CEH 613 from Evvia, so it has wild roots! I think PC has it on his website list so you can check it out there. From memory this is a variable collection, not all are white. Mine are variable in the amount of blue in the throat.
-
This group of images shows some of the variants that we found in Crocus biflorus ssp melantherus. We saw this plant in huge numbers from near Leonidi to Mt Didima. The plants shown with the spotted outer petals were, as has been observed before, very much in the minority with less than 1% in a population showing this characteristic.
-
Just stunning :o
-
Melvyn
You told me the melantherus were good, but not that good :o ;)
-
Great show Melvyn !!!! :o
-
Maybe there are other late forms of C.laevigatus out there on other islands, but they just haven't been 'found' yet.
Tony your blue-centred white C.cartwightianus is beautiful, but is it a garden selection or a wild one. It would be interesting to know where in the species' range it came from if it is from the wild.
Simon - it is 2nd generation that I have raised ex a CEH collection, CEH 613 from Evvia, so it has wild roots! I think PC has it on his website list so you can check it out there. From memory this is a variable collection, not all are white. Mine are variable in the amount of blue in the throat.
Thanks, Tony. I found the pic Gerry showed last year of his plant- so quite variable indeed. I also found the collection site on Evia- we haven't been that far south on the island yet. ;)
Melvyn- lovely pics! How many kms did you clock up? Leonidio to Mt Didima! :o
-
Edit by Maggi: this post was made in the "Hunt for Crocus wattiorum" thread ( now relocated to the Travel Section :http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4511.0 ) ... this post has been moved back here at Janis' request, since it is purely concerning Crocus.
C. wattiorum surely was worth the "trouble" - I love these black anthered Crocus species ! Brilliant Cyclamen as well - really outstanding foliage !! :o
Those with black anthers belongs to my favourites, too. Unfortunately I didn't saw much of wattiorum this autumn in my collection. When I left for Turkey they only just started blooming, after returning I went to hospital, but how they looks today you can see on last picture. All others are from previous season.
Janis
-
This group of images shows some of the variants that we found in Crocus biflorus ssp melantherus. We saw this plant in huge numbers from near Leonidi to Mt Didima. The plants shown with the spotted outer petals were, as has been observed before, very much in the minority with less than 1% in a population showing this characteristic.
Superb pictures! I too found only very few with spotted back of petals last autumn on other localities.
Janis
-
Mistery of Crocus 'Purple Heart' solved!
As I wrote earlier, I got this one from Antoine Hoog (France) and searching of its origin I asked Antoine from which Dutch company he baught this (see note from Paul Christians catalogue). Today got reply from Antoine which I'm copying here:
"Crocus ‘Purple Heart’ was named by me. Paul Christian made a mistake; maybe he does not wish to name his supplier.
I selected this from a seed stock of Crocus niveus. This was the Crocus niveus from Dutch cultivation, itself rather a mystery. It has been grown by Willem van Eeden, Jaap Zweeris and certainly others. I have been wondering about the shape of the corm. It has a flat base and does not look like the C. niveus I have from Greece. In flower it looks identical to my C. hadriaticus ‘Jumbo’, a large flowered selection from C. hadriaticus. So I believe this “C. niveus” is in fact C. hadriaticus. Possibly the other parent of C. ‘Purple Heart’ is C. cartwrightianus. This is a personal guess. But it flowers rather later than both C. hadriaticus and C. cartwrightianus."
So you can see that suggestion about possible hybrid between hadriaticus and cartwrightianum most possibly is correct!
Janis
-
Mistery of Crocus 'Purple Heart' solved!
So you can see that suggestion about possible hybrid between hadriaticus and cartwrightianum most possibly is correct!
Janis
Congratulations Simon!
It seems, after all, that Paul Christian's attribution to C. niveus, although mistaken, has some basis.
-
Thanks for the information, Janis. Thanks also, Gerry ;)
Does anyone know if C.hadriaticus grows on Evia? It would be interesting to know if it is possible that the Polipotamos collection -CEH 613- is from a naturally occuring hybrid of the 2 species.
It has also been great to see all these 'biflorus' type Crocus with back anthers. Has anyone seen the populations of C.biflorus stridii flowering in the wild?
-
This plant is labelled C biflorus melantherus but I think I have put in the wrong label when repotting.
Can someone confirm it's ID please I think it is C boryii
-
Simon - according to Brian Mathew, C. hadriaticus is confined to W & S Greece. In the E it is replaced by C. cartwrightianus. I think CEH 613, while very variable, is typical C. cartwrightianus.
-
Oh well, there goes another theory. :-[
-
This plant is labelled C biflorus melantherus but I think I have put in the wrong label when repotting.
Can someone confirm it's ID please I think it is C boryii
The white anthers seperate it from C biflorus melantherus. Crocus boryi is indeed the most likely candidate. Late flowering, mine were over weeks ago while the similar but smaller C laevigatus is still in flower. I assume it is pure white, no outer markings?
-
This plant is labelled C biflorus melantherus but I think I have put in the wrong label when repotting.
Can someone confirm it's ID please I think it is C boryii
The white anthers seperate it from C biflorus melantherus. Crocus boryi is indeed the most likely candidate. Late flowering, mine were over weeks ago while the similar but smaller C laevigatus is still in flower. I assume it is pure white, no outer markings?
Tony thanks and yes the outer is almost pure white with the faintest blue markings on the margins
-
Thank you all for such nice pics. wattiorum is nec plus ultra !!!
Here the last ones of autumn, hyemalis and pallasii
-
Today was something dryer weather, but dull clouds covers sky. So I went to open field check what is there, of course, together with my Canon. On attached pictures you can see the results of roe-dear visit on my open field - on first two pictures they got flowers of Crocus kotschyanus, on last you can see what left from lush foliage of Muscari armeniacum (really in last case it is not so bad, those leaves don't look nice in spring and must be cutted of in any case.
Janis
-
In greenhouse still blooms Crocus goulimyi. Here pictures of three extremes - differently colored forms something out of usual colors. As weather is very dark, flowers stay only slightly opened.
Janis
-
Wow :o :o :o
-
Hello all,
Back after some weeks of absence from the forum due to lots of work and a few travels, finally hope to dedicate more time to photographing the plants in the wild and an urgent need to sow some 300 packets of seeds in the coming few days.
We had some very good rains so far that will result in an excellent blooming season...
This morning i went to visit the northern coastal part of Israel where a rare form of Crocus aleppicus is in bloom at the moment.
It differs by being smaller in size, slender, reminding much of C. veneris.
It appears in white or tinged with purple.
-
Crocus hyemalis blooms by the milions almost every where, mainly at low altitudes up to 700m.
-
Your return is most welcome, Oron and all the more so when you bring such photographic gifts! 8)
-
Thanks Maggi :)
At home many species are blooming today,
One of these is a rare subspecies known only from one location in Palestine near the city of Ramalla and some populations around Amman in Jordan.
C[1]. hermoneus ssp. palaestinus - Jordan.JPG
C[1]. aleppicus - Upper Galilee.JPG
C[1]. veneris - Cyprus.JPG
C[1]. ochroleucus - Albus.JPG
C[1]. cancellatus - S. Golan.JPG
-
and..
C[1]. pallasii - Chios.JPG
C[1]. pallasii, Chios.JPG
cancellatus pamphylicus.JPG
-
Oron, great looking collection of Crocus!
-
Thanks Mark... here are some more ;)
C[1]. pallasii Album.JPG
C[1]. ochroleucus.JPG
C[1]. veneris.JPG
C[1]. pulchelum.JPG
C[1]. cancellathus lycius.JPG
-
Beautiful pictures of some beautiful Crocuses Oron, welcome back.
-
Oron - very nice crocus. The C. pallasii from Chios is especially attractive.
-
Oron, Excellent pictures and beautiful crocuses! Greetings. Why I'm not living in crocus district :-[
Janis
-
Oron, how nice are these crocuses. I love ochroleucus albus and veneris. I hope you would have seeds;;;;;!!!!!! :P
-
Many thanks everyone :-[ :)
A few more..
C[1]. cancellathus cancellatus - S. Golan.JPG
C[1]. mathewii.JPG
C[1]. nerimaniae.JPG
C[1]. pallasii - Meron.JPG
-
Quite magnificent Oron! Many thanks for your continuing efforts.
-
I do like that final C.pallasii. If she is still unmarried next year, I am sure we could find her a good husband here ;)
-
I do like that final C.pallasii. If she is still unmarried next year, I am sure we could find her a good husband here ;)
Well Simon, She is married to me!!! but we might be able to send you some seeds next summer ;)
-
Oron
I thought that Crocus wattiorum was my favourite Crocus, but you are making it very difficult. Ochroleucus albus and veneris are beautiful and the pallasii from Chios is very desirable.
Thanks for posting
-
Gorgeous Crocus Oron !!
All equally beautiful ! Veneris is so elegant !! 8)
-
Gorgeous Crocus Oron !!
All equally beautiful ! Veneris is so elegant !! 8)
Hmm, yes, but a little skinny for my taste! ::)
-
Gorgeous Crocus Oron !!
All equally beautiful ! Veneris is so elegant !! 8)
Hmm, yes, but a little skinny for my taste! ::)
Needs some Belgian chocolate to fatten it up :D
-
I do like that final C.pallasii. If she is still unmarried next year, I am sure we could find her a good husband here ;)
Well Simon, She is married to me!!! but we might be able to send you some seeds next summer ;)
Well, it would be interesting to see what the offspring of two 'distant relatives' would look like. I would be happy to reciprocate with bulgarian seed. :)
-
Hello Oron, Lovely photo`s, here, mine have all finished flowering for the season. I think your Nerimaniae is the best one. Please send your next seed list to me.
Best wishes, James
-
Gorgeous Crocus Oron !!
All equally beautiful ! Veneris is so elegant !! 8)
Hmm, yes, but a little skinny for my taste! ::)
Needs some Belgian chocolate to fatten it up :D
mmm... obviously this can be taken care of... 8)
-
Thanks for all the superb pictures, really a droolïng thread ;)
-
Thanks to you all and...i got the message, i will feed my C. veneris some Belgian choclate, [not sure that this is what it lives on in Cyprus...] ;D
A few more species opened this morning.
-
Janis,
you have nice color variants of C. goulimyi. Regret the damages by roe deers but guess they leked the sweet flowers for a desert. A fence would may keep them off your fields? I remember Luit reported in last spring about massive problems in dutch narcissus fields by roe deer, too.
Oron,
I particularly like your C. allepicus and C. hyemalis pictures. Very beautiful! 8) 8) 8)
Thanks for showing.
Just noticed today in my garden spring flowering C. biflorus subsp. biflorus, subsp. tauri and C. imperati have already grown 5cm long leaves... Quite early I think - isn't it?
-
You are not the only one, Armin. My korolkowii
Dystictus has a flower bud above ground
Just when I thought my autumn flowerers were over a couple come up
cancellatus cancellatus actually goulimyi from the bulb sale.
laevigatus AH0138
-
Oron, do you get many wet days that ruin the flowers of your Crocus?
-
Not a long ago we discussed about Crocus 'Purple Heart'. As a lot of buds came out during those days, yesterday I brought pot with this beauty inside and in warmer and dry air flowers nicely opened in few hours. They didn't close in night - my be for temperature and air humidity, but I think it confirms presence of C. cartwrightianus blood in it. Now I brought pot back to greenhouse and will check reaction of flowers cooler and moist air. Although today is the highest temperature ever recorded in 21st of November, full degree higher than last time in 21st November of 1944.
Janis
-
Flowers of various forms of C. cartwrightianus stay open in greenhose day and night. I'm attaching few pictures made today.
Janis
-
Oron, do you get many wet days that ruin the flowers of your Crocus?
Fantastic photos as usual Mark,
In a good year we receive 34-50 days of rain in my region, the rest is mostly sunny days.
Generally, the high temperatures and dry winds causing flowers to die earlier here...
This morning this tiny gem is in bloom, less than 2 cm across.
exactly three years from when it was sown.
Crocus cambessedesii
-
And last entry for today. Shortly ago I showed picture of C. goulimyi 'Harlequin'. This is selected by John Fielding. During my visit to Peloponnese I discovered another similar form which I named 'New Harlequin'. Only time will show which one is better. Still blooms C. longiflorus from Nebrodi range. Just started blooming C. cambessedesii - not so abundantly as year before, but still looks very nice. Seems that this summer was too cold to induce abundant blooming, may be still I feel influence of last winters frost damage resulted in smaller corms.
Janis
-
Not a long ago we discussed about Crocus 'Purple Heart'. As a lot of buds came out during those days, yesterday I brought pot with this beauty inside and in warmer and dry air flowers nicely opened in few hours. They didn't close in night - my be for temperature and air humidity, but I think it confirms presence of C. cartwrightianus blood in it. Now I brought pot back to greenhouse and will check reaction of flowers cooler and moist air. Although today is the highest temperature ever recorded in 21st of November, full degree higher than last time in 21st November of 1944.
Janis
Janis,
'Purple heart' is a beauty.
it seems to have also palasii blood in it, may be a hybrid of the two species ?
-
'Purple heart' is a beauty.
it seems to have also palasii blood in it, may be a hybrid of the two species ?
As I wrote something earlier it is rised by Antoine Hoog (France) from doubtful seed of C. niveus, but Antoine suppose that this is hybrid of cartwrightianus with hadriaticus, and I think he is right.
Janis
-
Checking again 'Purple Heart' I found that flowers closed for night when they were replaced to greenhouse, not so tight as hadriaticus but in any case they didn't left open as it is in all my stocks of cartwrightianus. So certainly it isn't pure species.
Janis
-
Interesting form of Crocus kotschyanus (HKEP-9205) I bought in 2007 from AH. Previous autumn I noted that it starts to form leaves during blooming. I supposed that it is only seasonal abnormality, but this autumn this feature is even more prominent. The first picture is maid some two weeks ago, just after returning from Turkey - you can see the leave tips showed out of pot, second picture is maid today, now leave are up to 7 cm long! No one other Crocus kotschyanus acquisition shows leave at present.
Janis
-
Crocus cartwrightianus 'Pale Clone'
Janis - Do you know anything about this? Is it one of Antoine Hoog's selections?
-
Crocus cartwrightianus 'Pale Clone'
Janis - Do you know anything about this? Is it one of Antoine Hoog's selections?
Antoine's list I will check later in my office, but cartwrightianus can be very variable from almost white to quite deep purple. You forgot to attach picture.
Janis
-
Crocus cartwrightianus 'Pale Clone'
Janis - Do you know anything about this? Is it one of Antoine Hoog's selections?
Yes, there are two different clones of Crocus cartwrightianus offered by Antoine - pale clone #1 and pale clone # 2. I haven't those, so can't judge how different they are.
Janis
-
Janis, your kotschyanus was collected by Kerndorff and Pasche in Turkey, Hatay Province.
I have the same collection, but never noticed the leaves in autumn - will check again later.
Notable in this plant is also the whitish style.
-
Janis, your kotschyanus was collected by Kerndorff and Pasche in Turkey, Hatay Province.
I have the same collection, but never noticed the leaves in autumn - will check again later.
Notable in this plant is also the whitish style.
Many thanks, Thomas. By the way I got exact locality from Antoine. In same time Antoine wrote me that it isn't good grower with him, but I have rally no problems.
Regarding leave - you can see on picture how long they are now. May be grown outside it would not form leave in autumn. From other side we have very long and warm autumn this year, although October was colder than average and we had snow for full week.
Janis
-
By the way, I forgot to note that HKEP-9205 has very wide deep yellow zone in flowers throat, too - not only pale stigma.
Janis
-
Crocus cartwrightianus 'Pale Clone'
Janis - Do you know anything about this? Is it one of Antoine Hoog's selections?
Antoine's list I will check later in my office, but cartwrightianus can be very variable from almost white to quite deep purple. You forgot to attach picture.
Janis
Janis - thanks for the information. I don't grow this plant, I have only read about it.
-
Flowering here today in glorious sunshine:
Crocus laevigatus
this time last year they flowered through snow!
-
I was given this 'white' laevigatus by a good friend. I was even more delighted when it turned out to be 'yellow' :)
The Crocus laevigatus was photographed after rain and before it was destroyed by the continuing rain
-
A very warm creamy yellow Art !! 8)
-
Looks just like mine.
-
I was given this 'white' laevigatus by a good friend. I was even more delighted when it turned out to be 'yellow' :)
The Crocus laevigatus was photographed after rain and before it was destroyed by the continuing rain
Superb form, Arthur! Never saw so excellent color before, by shade it remembers to me albinos form of Crocus flavus dissectus found by me in Turkey.
Janis
-
;) that's what I thought too, Mark. i was looking through an old Cambridge Bulbs list to see if mine had any collection details- which it doesn't. I did see though that in 2005 he had a C.laevigatus 'White with pale gold exterior' listed- the source being 'hort'.
-
This summer I got from Australia (Marcus Harvey) a laevigatus "Gold Back". Hope it will be similar, may be the same. It didn't bloomed at present due season change-problem, may be next autumn. This form originates from Roger Poulet (UK).
Janis
-
I wonder if the 'golden' C.laevigatus is an old form that did the rounds a few years ago and is now set for a comeback. Well done for being at the front of the line Mark. ;)
-
I believe mine originally was a collection in the Mediterranean area - can't remember where - and has travelled a long way since then. Will try to get more details.
-
Janis, Marcus sent me the same 'Gold backed' laevigatus last summer and it flowered just like Art's
-
Sorry, I was assuming that for Norman Stevens to list it as a horticultural form it must have been around for a while- especially as it seems to have made its way to the other side of the world and back ;)
As Mark says though, they both look the same except for differences in lighting.
-
I was advised yesterday by Brian Mathew that the aberrant form of Crocus hadriaticus from Didima I posted in Reply 167 0n November 17th is a form of C. hadriaticus ssp parnonicus. Hope that helps others as confused as I was, I have added the photos again to make it easier.
-
Thanks, Melvyn.... good idea to add the pix again... 8)
-
I was advised yesterday by Brian Mathew that the aberrant form of Crocus hadriaticus from Didima I posted in Reply 167 0n November 17th is a form of C. hadriaticus ssp parnonicus. Hope that helps others as confused as I was, I have added the photos again to make it easier.
Yes, it looks as parnonicus. The lilac stripes at base can confuse as throat in parnonicus must be white, but more carefull look confirms that those are only stripes over white base. Although by last communication with BM better would be regard parnonicus and parnassicus only at varietal not subspecies status as there are many intermediate forms without sharp border between taxa.
I'm attaching pictures of hadriaticus typica and var. parnassicus (I haven't good pictures of parnonicus).
Janis
-
Janis - with its very pointed tepals that's a handsome form of C. hadriaticus (typical). Does it have a cultivar name?
-
For the second time this autumn a supplier has sent something wrong. For supplying ordinary korolkowii as the cultivar 'Dystictus' last year I got laevigatus Albus which turned out to be speciosus. I then got laevigatus AH0138 as compensation. All is well until this week when another rogue bulb comes up ::). This is another form of laevigatus ::) ::)I knew something was wrong when I saw yellow tips on the emerging buds
Here is AH 0138 and below the rogue
Any comments?
-
Early this morning, a golden bud... 20 minuets later...C. moabiticus.
The second is a good form of C. heymalis.
-
Janis - with its very pointed tepals that's a handsome form of C. hadriaticus (typical). Does it have a cultivar name?
Yes, it is named 'Dodona'.
Janis
-
For the second time this autumn a supplier has sent something wrong. For supplying ordinary korolkowii as the cultivar 'Dystictus' last year I got laevigatus Albus which turned out to be speciosus. I then got laevigatus AH0138 as compensation. All is well until this week when another rogue bulb comes up ::). This is another form of laevigatus ::) ::)I knew something was wrong when I saw yellow tips on the emerging buds
Here is AH 0138 and below the rogue
Any comments?
The second (yellow shaded) laevigatus not bad! With that you are not looser although we allways want to get what we ordered. Unfortunately wrong names are too often joined with low price.
Janis
-
Early this morning, a golden bud... 20 minuets later...C. moabiticus.
The second is a good form of C. heymalis.
Superb hyemalis!!!!
Janis
-
Oron! :o
-
Thanks Janis and Mark
Today i went to the Upper Galilee to see C. aleppicus, this area is home to a huge population growing on basaltic black soil.
This form is different to the one i have shown a week ago from the coastal area, being larger in size and less variable in color, all are white, often with a thin purple strip on the outer petal, styles either yellow or orange.
-
Luckily!!!!
I have found the most beautiful aleppicus i have ever seen.
One have to see the population to realise how something like this is rare.
-
For the second time this autumn a supplier has sent something wrong. For supplying ordinary korolkowii as the cultivar 'Dystictus' last year I got laevigatus Albus which turned out to be speciosus. I then got laevigatus AH0138 as compensation. All is well until this week when another rogue bulb comes up ::). This is another form of laevigatus ::) ::)I knew something was wrong when I saw yellow tips on the emerging buds
Here is AH 0138 and below the rogue
Any comments?
I agree with Janis - the replacement is an excellent plant even if it is not what was stated. Actually like it better than the real thing :)
-
Luckily!!!!
I have found the most beautiful aleppicus i have ever seen.
I agree - a rare beauty
-
Janis - with its very pointed tepals that's a handsome form of C. hadriaticus (typical). Does it have a cultivar name?
Yes, it is named 'Dodona'.
Janis
Many thanks Janis. I thought it might be 'Dodona' but wanted to make sure.
-
re my yellow based laevigatus, above, with much branched style Tony Goode says this on his web site
http://www.thealpinehouse.fsnet.co.uk/crocus%20pages/ (http://www.thealpinehouse.fsnet.co.uk/crocus%20pages/)
"Cretan forms usually small flowered often white with very prominent red style"
-
Northing special compared to Oron's stunning beauties - just laevigatus var fontenayi
-
Beautiful photos, Mark... shows why I so adore Crocus.... what exquisite flowers these are! 8)
-
yes Maggi? :D
-
Luckily!!!!
I have found the most beautiful aleppicus i have ever seen.
One have to see the population to realise how something like this is rare.
Those are excellent, Oron, but others are not less beautiful!
Janis
-
Returning to C. hadriaticus I want to show you other forms of hadriaticus (cv. 'Dodona' you can see on entry 244, as typica, cv. 'Jumbo' you can see on entry 136.). Names of forms are under pictures. The differences generally are in shape of tepals, color of throat and flower tube.
Janis
Crocus hadriaticus Alepohori
Crocus hadriaticus Brown tube
Crocus hadriaticus Indian Summer
Crocus hadriaticus Parnasos
Crocus hadriaticus Tom Blanchard
-
Names of forms are under pictures.
I have added the names to the text, Janis, because only in this way can the search facility find the names.
-
Names of forms are under pictures.
I have added the names to the text, Janis, because only in this way can the search facility find the names.
I didn't know it, Maggi. In future will remember this. Really I don't know all possibilities of Forum.
Janis
-
Thank you, Janis.
I appreciate it can be hard to know all abut the Forum, so there are pages here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=65.0
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2.0
which may be of assistance.
There is also the Main Forum "HELP" button, situated second from the left at the top of each page.
-
My last Crocus for this year,
Cr.aleppicus from Syria, unfortunately a single plant
-
Now that is a beauty - they just keep getting better and better. Thanks Dirk
-
My last Crocus for this year,
Cr.aleppicus from Syria, unfortunately a single plant
Superb, Dirk!
-
Not so many crocuses blooms now in greenhose. Some only starts. Here you can see C. longiflorus from Basilicata, Italy, 600 m, collected in shade of forest, and C. cancellatus mazziaricus coming from Dilek Yar, near entry to Milli Parki, 3 km W from Priene ruins, alt. ~ 200 m. Both still in buds. Now there are no sun at all and many crocuses ends blooming without opening of flowers.
-
November was far warmer than it usually must to be. Today I read in last Ian's bulb log about Crocus michelsonii showing leaves and in pause between two showers I went to my greenhouse to check my Central Asian crocuses. And found the same with me, too. Crocus michelsonii has well advanced leaves, not so long as in report about C. kotschyanus HKEP-9205 few days ago, but quite well developed. Long leaves has new subspecies of C. speciosus from Iran, even C. korolkowii started to show leaves, but alatavicus still is underground. My earliest record of C. michelsonii blooming is from 15th of November several years ago. Carefully checking you can see orange-yellow color of coming flower behind semitransparent bract and bracteole.
Janis
-
Crocus michelsonii is showing here too. In the previous 2 winters it had snow cover, so we only saw leaves after the snow melt.
-
In April 1993 I collected some Crocus seed from Mt Didima in the Peloponnese unaware of the species involved. It was subsequently distributed through Jim and Jenny Archibalds seed list and when grown was found to be a form of Crocus sieberi that starts flowering in the third week of November. The photo which I took this morning shows flowers from a more recent collection but with the same early flowering habit.
-
Very interesting Melvyn. How does the location of this autumn flowering sieberi relate to the distribution of Crocus robertianus? There is a suggestion that Crocus robertianus may have evolved from Crocus sieberi. Not having been there I do not have the 'local knowledge'
If you ever get seed I would be glad to add this form to the National Collection here.
-
Photos from today's visit to the Southern part of the Golan Heights where Cancellatus ssp canellatus is in bloom at the moment.
Generally they flower without the leaves but this year we had some early rains that are the reason for it.
-
Very interesting Melvyn. How does the location of this autumn flowering sieberi relate to the distribution of Crocus robertianus? There is a suggestion that Crocus robertianus may have evolved from Crocus sieberi. Not having been there I do not have the 'local knowledge'
If you ever get seed I would be glad to add this form to the National Collection here.
Just my opinion, too. I suppose this is robertianus - very similar to atticus, seperable only by flowering time.
Janis
-
Photos from today's visit to the Southern part of the Golan Heights where Cancellatus ssp canellatus is in bloom at the moment.
Generally they flower without the leaves but this year we had some early rains that are the reason for it.
Some of my C. cancellatus ssp canellatus samples made quite long leaves this autumn, too. I think that it is caused by unusually long and warm autumn, because earlier I only noted leaf tips on some samples. But fest of warm will end next weekend when day temperatures are proposed to fall till minus 5 C.
Janis
-
Very interesting Melvyn. How does the location of this autumn flowering sieberi relate to the distribution of Crocus robertianus? There is a suggestion that Crocus robertianus may have evolved from Crocus sieberi. Not having been there I do not have the 'local knowledge'
If you ever get seed I would be glad to add this form to the National Collection here.
Hello Tony,
I am not aware of the extent of the population of this plant on Mt Didima, it might be restricted to the mountain itself which is south of Epidaurus on the Argolid peninsular. Similarly I am not aware of all the areas where C. robertianus grows but thought it was restricted to the north of the Gulf of Corinth, quite a distance away. I am certainly not an expert on Crocus and am very happy to be guided by others on nomenclature.
Re your request for seeds, of course, very happy to send you some and if they do well will send you some corms at repotting time.
-
I am not aware of the extent of the population of this plant on Mt Didima, it might be restricted to the mountain itself which is south of Epidaurus on the Argolid peninsular. Similarly I am not aware of all the areas where C. robertianus grows but thought it was restricted to the north of the Gulf of Corinth, quite a distance away. I am certainly not an expert on Crocus and am very happy to be guided by others on nomenclature.
You are right, Melvyn. C. robertianus is plant from N part of Greece and as I know was not recorded in Peloponnese. But, if Brian Mathew is right that C. robertianus developed from C. atticus by mutation, why not to concede that similar mutation happened in more southern part (Peloponnese), too? Is this one robertianus or too different isn't possible decide without growing both side by side and may be even without researches on molecular level.
Janis
-
Today I have two chrysanthus 'Sunspot' flowers.
The number of winter/spring flowerers with noses and leaves showing is huge - 33. This isnt pots but species and cultivars. Many I have more than one pot of.
-
Today I have two chrysanthus 'Sunspot' flowers.
Incredible! Nature becomes crazy! Never had chrysanthus before new year.
Janis