Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Wisley Alpine Log – Feedback Forum => Topic started by: admin on August 03, 2007, 12:37:52 PM
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Please use this forum for feedback on the new Wisley Alpine Log. Create as many topics as you wish! ;)
see also this: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=677.0
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Congratulations to Paul and his Wisley Colleagues for this exciting innovation.
I am intriqued by the charming Aptosimum sp. shown....I am unfamiliar with this plant and interested to read the comments about smoke-aided germination. This is a subject that has been raised on this Forum, so obviouslyof interest to us!
Here are two links to "smokey" subjects:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=335.0
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=227.0
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It is terrific to see the ongoing work at Wisley.. plenty there to keep the Staff busy... but they are not all keeping so active.. here is a pic of Sunny, the smallest member of staff, and she's certainly asleep on the job!
[attachthumb=1]
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Congratulations Paul and the rest of the Wisley crew! What great fun to have a window into the alpine world at the garden. It's wonderful to see your continuing work (hard to believe that it's already over two years since I visited). Thanks for keeping us "posted."
Carlo
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A tremendous and highly encouraging addition to the sites of both the SRGC and the AGS.
Our heartfelt thanks to the instigators, the contributors and to Wisley itself for allowing us this insight into the workings of such a renowned and celebrated institution.
More time to be spent in front of the computer ------ ???
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This is really a great addition to an already excellent site.
The gardens at Wisley have been one of our very favourite places to visit and we have travelled there many times and have always enjoyed the visits very much. The alpine house has, of course, been of special interest and always one of our spots to see. It will be great to watch the redevelopment here on the site and in real life when we can next get round to visit.
Many thanks for taking the time to write the blog. I have no doubt it will be followed with great interest by the members of this site.
Paddy
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Please use this forum for feedback on the new Wisley Alpine Log. Create as many topics as you wish! ;)
and remember to click notify on the board, if you want to know when new topics are added.
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More please!!!
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Wow, I'm amazed at so many hits for the first day. And thanks to those of you who have already posted their appreciation of the log. Maggi, I'm afraid Sunny often sleeps on the job these days! She is getting quite old now - we think around 13 years - so we forgive her for her increasing siestas. Mind you, when she does move it can be dramatic - she doesn't seem to bother with small things like mice but goes for squirrels and even once a weasel brought in and proudly displayed to us. That's one tough pussy.
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Fair enough, Paul, if Sunny is a teenager she may be allowed the odd lie-in!
We are thrilled that the Wisley log is online and delighted with the response. It is rewarding for you, I'm sure, having put in the effort to get it started.... now comes the work to keep it going.... just like a garden, really!
All this excitment about new items reminds me that you may not have noticed Sandy Leven's latest article... see it here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/feature/sandyjuly2007/content.html
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Well done to you Paul. The number of "hits" is usually highest for the first few days of any new feature or update. I am certain it will be even more popular once more folk get to know about it.
Ian's bulb log is now famous amongst "planty people" and has been a key feature in making this site as successful as it is. I have no doubt the Wisley Log will be just the same!
Web sites are fine – but it's not "bells and whistles" that bring in the visitors – it's good, varied content.
Thanks on behalf of the SRGC web team, please keep them coming!
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Its nice to be able to 'share' Wisley, a place I have been able to go only a few times. And I shall be trying one of those smoke thingies from Silverhills. What a good idea. Thanks Wisley for pointing this out. Hope they work.
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A new log from Wisley on today... have you seen it yet? Really super pictures of the construction of the new alpine house... very swish building, indeed! One of those would look very smart here, and the Bulb Despot would like it, too. ::) I think it was a great idea to have the new "top" built to fit the existing footprint.... although this may have cost more in terms of money and lead time, the speed of getting the new structure in place must make up for that. The colour is a good choice, I'm sure. I presume it ( the metal frame) is pretty much maintenance free ?
Bit disappointed to see the fancy mowing machine being used in the meadow.... all those workers and not a scythe in sight... shame on you... ;)
Thanks, Paul and the Gang!
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The grass is raked into piles, loaded onto a trailer and taken out to the arboretum where it is spread as mulch around the trees
Forgive my ignorance, I have not been to Wisley.... I am assuming that the trees in the arboretum are planted in grass.... is this grass from the meadow then spread directly on to the grass of the arboretum, without composting ?
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Paul,
Great to see such progress on the glasshouse, looks really great and I know the plants will look fabulous when you put them in.
Also good to see the team at Wisley engage in some hay saving but one question: why do English gardeners insist on using those short handled forks? Do you not have any with decent long handles?
Many thanks for the update.
Paddy
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What medium are they using to plunge the pots in? It looks like sand/gravel. Do they do anything special to keep the potted plants from rooting into the plunge mix?
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Thanks for the comments & questions everyone, here are some quick answers: Yes Maggi, the Aluminium frame of the new house should be pretty much maintenance-free. Alitex did leave us a couple of tins of green touch-up paint in case of the inevitable occasional knock or scratch. This coming week the electricians will be sorting out the power supply and our on-site chap re-connecting the water supply. Once these are done we can at last get on to the exciting bit – moving in the plants and putting on a new display!
Gene, the plunge medium is washed sharp sand. As this house is just for display, plants are not in it long enough to root out into the plunge. However, when back behind the scenes in their growing houses most are also kept in plunges and here it can be a problem. We don’t have a real solution other than to lift pots occasionally and trim off protruding roots – most of them don’t seem to suffer from this indignity. The many benefits of plunging far outweigh this down side.
On to the meadow questions. Let people loose with scythes…? I have visions of multiple unattached feet…and worse still think of the paperwork to do a sensible risk assessment!! More seriously, moving the cut grass to the arboretum is done the same day, without composting. The trees are grown in grass but there is a 2 metre diameter circle around each tree where there is no grass (i.e. it is bare ground). This is because research has shown that trees, especially young ones, establish and grow better by not having grass or other competing plants around their bases. The grass is put onto these bare circles where it helps to keep the weeds down. We have considered other options; the best solution would probably be to get the hay baled and fed to horses in local stables. However the amount we produce is so small that this is uneconomical and we think the best compromise solution was to use it on site, which is also good environmentally as there is very little transport involved – less than a hay mile!
Paddy as for long-handled forks, I’m tempted to say that it is not the size of your tool but what you do with it….but seriously it is odd that the short versions are almost universal here. We do have some long ones for anyone who prefers to use one, but few do. Personally I do find the long handles ones very awkward to use. Maybe it’s a question of what you are used to.
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Paul,
Re forks/tools, as we would say here regarding footballers: 'a good big one is always better than a good small one'
Paddy
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I doubt that a scyte is much more dangerous than the tool in use but:
A: Not all can use them (The difficult part is to keep them sharp) and it is much more work.
B: The decision to make is: Do I do this because I need excercise or because I want the grass cut?
We do the same thing but we usually cart the grass away to our neighbour's cattle.
Since we want as much seed as possible and our seasons are later we do it around September 1st just in time before the Crocuses.
It works well. We get a little more wildflowers in the meadow every year.
Göte
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Paul, what do you consider to be the benefits of plunging pots? I believe a moderation of soil temperature swings would be one. What else? And thanks for sharing your expertise on this forum.
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Gene,
Just a comment from a Wisley outsider who has been using plunge beds for almost two decades in a very tough gardening climate (-45C winters, mid-winter thaws, lack of snow cover).
Firstly I would say that my (coarse sand) plunge bed is without question THE most important and valuable thing I ever constructed for my business. At the end of the season, everything I can manage to fit in, goes in and is overwintered here. Seedlings that are too tiny to overwinter, trees, shrubs, bulbous material. Plants in pots, in flats, whatever. They are plunged to their rims in logical "depth of container" rows (for practial reasons). The bed is left totally exposed to the elements. I would say that no matter what kind of winter I have, the overwintering rate is very high (over 80%).
Very large, deep pots (when the plunge bed is full) get the same treatment, but are put in "graves" in the now-empty vegetable garden. Tight up against each other, backfilled with whatever soil is there. Overwintering here is also very high.
From my experience, I am not convinced that the sand plunge bed necessarily does a better job of overwintering just because the pots are in sand (except in a winter where there is a flooding problem in the area, and then the faster drainage obviously helps). However, the ease of doing the actual plunging makes the sand a better choice. It's a rather pleasant job in the late fall, working in the sand bed. Sand obviously has to be moist to do the work of digging well---so if there has been no rain, I will have to wet it down with the sprinklers before I start.
The picture I have posted is just a small section of the plunge---I am guessing it is about a 50 by 25' area.
Kristl
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Looks fantastic Kristl...is that a stone walkway down the middle? How deep is the bed?
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Oh, and are you plunging clay and plastic pots?
Obviously Wisley's bed (being raised) is a different beast altogether...
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Hi Carlo,
Nice to find so many old friends on this forum....
The sand plunge is at ground level, yes, and is entirely sand. It's only my German/Slovakian obsession with logic and efficiency that compels me to line things up so that they appear to be other than what they are :) So, no stone or other "hard" walkway, just a good, straight line in the sand every so many feet for easy access to the pots in the spring (when mostly everything is pulled out).
I don't pot in clay generally so no, there are no clay pots plunged, even on an experimental basis.
The bed is not very deep---as the initial intention when it was built almost 20 years ago was to plunge alpines in small pots. It's approximately 12-18" deep. Framed with railway posts.
When the sand level goes down (as it inevitable does every few years (sand ends up in the top of the pots, and I continually "steal" from it during the summer for potting, etc), the tri-axle load truck can back right up to the area and dump another load straight in. I then (feeling very Japanese-German-Slovakian), spend time raking it smooth and level to ready it for the next round of plunging.
Kristl
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a P.S....
For gardeners in a cold climate, the plunge offers, I think, the best alternative to overwintering both established plants and young seedlings too small to safely overwinter any other way. In my experience, cold frames cannot even come close to what is possible in a plunge bed.
Kristl
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I have just filled half of my (Alitex) cold frame with sand to create a plunge bed. It has a brick base. Don't know why I've never thought of doing this before. Have taken one of the covers off and left one on, so I can have the best of both worlds - my floury auriculas can leaf successfully without losing their ?what is that stuff called? and I can control the amount of water I give to my bulbs whilst in the other side I can over winter more rain tolerant plants and seeds I shall sow this autumn. Already there is not enough room! I use the other side for very large pots that need winter protection, but I am now tempted to get another dumpy bag of sand and put it in there too.
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"Floury stuff" equals "farina... Ive said it before and I'll say it again... there's often a clue! ;D
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Thanks everyone for the discussion on plunges. I think plunges are really useful and so I intend to make the next Wisley Log all about them - so Gene I'll answer your question there this coming week.
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A great new log edition. How wonderful to have a whole, brand new house to plant! The planting and the plants are superb. And the pictures too are amazing, a great thrill, like our own person show bench. Thanks so very much, everyone involved. I'm especially pleased to see the Empodium as I was given a potful of semi dormant bulbs recently. Something super to look forward to.
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More of Gemma please now she's started so the rest of us students at RBGE can keep and eye on her!
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What a fantastic display of Crocus nudiflorus - has anyone seen it in the wild? I imagine that is as good a display as the wild plants make .... now I just need to find a bigger garden and ... :)
The nototriche is verty crocus-like as you say. How does it rate in terms of difficulty of cultivation? Do you get seed from your plants? ;)
Thanks for sharing the news and views from Wisley with us Paul. Even some of us southerners rarely get there so it is much appreciated.
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Thanks to everyone for the supportive and appreciative comments, I'm glad you are enjoying the log. Tony asked about cultivation for the Nototriche. As yet I have little experience as we have only had these plants less than a year. We got seed which we sowed as soon as it arrived in April. It germinated readily and has produced flowers in its first year, about 6 months from sowing. I potted half the plants in our standard alpine mix and half in pure Seramis to see what worked best. Both have grown equally well, though the ones in Seramis have been the first to flower. I have watered them "normally" i.e. like any average alpine and had them under glass with full light. The ones in Seramis were fed at every watering with a low nitrogen, high potash feed.
No seed yet but this is due to the fading flowers being removed - not what I had asked for! But these plants are out in the public dispaly house where fading flowers are removed regularly to keep plants looking good and its obvious my instructions not to remove these particular ones didn't filter down to everyone. These things unfortunately happen sometimes in a busy department! We also have Nototriche compacta and this has readily set seed, so I'm hopeful that N. macleanii will too.
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all the Wisley logs have been great. Makes me want to visit even more now. I was at Wisley once for the Geranium trials but it left no time for anything else
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all the Wisley logs have been great. Makes me want to visit even more now. I was at Wisley once for the Geranium trials but it left no time for anything else
What Mark said!!
And my plans are to go there next Friday! I am very much looking forward to it!
Chloë
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Yes I have seen C nudiflorus in the wild. On horse pastures in the Pyrenees on the south side On the road that goes from Vic north to the mountains and then to Andorra. They were lighter in colour and definitely not so thick.
Did I say something on blanket weed? (in an earlier Wisley log someone was fishing) Lymnea stagnalis a fresh water snail will keep it down.
Göte
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I'm happy to say that the new Alpine House in Wisley was looking quite wonderful today. The Cyclamen in particular were perfectly splendid, but I also enjoyed the Polyxena and the Petrocosmea.
Chloë
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Glad to hear you are having a good rootle around, Chloë.... Wisley and Kew, eh? Enjoy your trip.. we'll enjoy learning where you've been!
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Paul,
I'm really enjoying the log. Great to see the Massonia and Daubenya. Time these, and polyxena, got some more publicity. Some years ago you kindly advised me on cleaning up my Pleione collection from a suspected Brevipalpus infestation and I'm delighted to report that your advice was spot on!
Darren.
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Another great Log from Paul online now. http://www.srgc.org.uk/wisley/2008/020208/log.html
Wonderful Iris... and Hepatica nobilis var. japonica - yellow flowered form--- oh, covet, covet!!
And, last but not least, many congratulations to Lucie on her award. 8) ;D
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Two things I want - the yellow Hepatica and the Ranunculus ficaria
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I believe Galanthus 'Kite' is wrong. 'Kite' is an elwesii that should have twin flowers
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Just caught up with the last two Wisley Logs both of the usual high standard. Sincere thanks to Paul for taking the time and the trouble to prepare them in what must be a very busy schedule for him. It's an absolute joy for me to see good plants, well grown in first class facilities. Makes my amateur ramblings and shamblings look what they very much are.
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Hi Mark,
Thanks for the comment on G. 'Kite'. I am no Snowdrop expert and I just took the name on the label. Unfortunately in a public garden labels have a habit of being moved by the visitors and put back in the wrong place and I guess that is what hapeened here.
The Ranunculus should be available from some nurseries as Trevor supllied it for propagation and introduction to a few of them. As for the yellow Hepatica...a trip to Japan would be necessary!
Paul
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As for the yellow Hepatica...a trip to Japan would be necessary
It would be worth it, though... think of all the other plants we could get there...... OOOHH!!
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As for the yellow Hepatica...a trip to Japan would be necessary!
And a very large purse containing many many yen ...
;D ;D
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But, Diane, what's a yen when you have a yen?
Can't take it with you, may as well take it to Japan....everyone I know who has been there says how great a time they had.............. says the woman who doesn't get out much :-[
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Wisley Log No. 4 of 2009 is online..... see the snow was pretty bad down there...... :P .....but very pretty!!
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Japan is the nicest place to visit.
It is very clean, very safe. If you drop your wallet on the street it will either be in the hotel before you when you arrive or in the nearest police station WITH ALL MONEY INTACT ;D ;D.
The trains go VERY frequently and on the second. If you buy a voucher BEFORE YOU LEAVE EUROPE you can travel as much as you please.
It is very beautiful in places (Countryside, Temples, Shrines) and very ugly in some (Industrial areas, half modern cities)
If you use the hotels foreigners are directed to, they are very expensive (fitting your status as honoured guest)
If you stay where the Japanese stay, the prices are as in Europe.
Japanese food can be extremely pricey or fairly cheap. In my taste usually excellent.
Language is a problem in some situations, adresses is a problem in some situations. There are tricks of the trade to get around this.
The big hurdle is that Ryan Air does not fly to Osaka. :(
The picture which is a bad scan is from an inner court in the temple dedicated to Hideyoshi in the Higashiyama area of Kyoto.
Göte
PS
The slightest provokation will make me flood the forum with japanese pictures not dedicated to alpines ;)
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Göte, since the Japanese make so many beautiful flower hybrids, like the Hepaticas, let alone the natural native plant life, and since you believe it is such a good place to visit, and, it seems, can give helpful hints to make a visit easier for Europeans, then I do think that we MUST hope to provoke you sufficiently for you to make a new thread in the Travel/places to visit area about Japan. 8)
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OK I will see what I can do.
In the meantime, anybody having Google Earth (which is free) can find the position of the photograper in
35° 00' 02.41" N; 135° 46' 52.72" E.
It is amazing is it not?
Göte
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Hello, Folks, new Wisley Log is now online, No. 6 of 2009 .
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..... and some cracking Hepatica pics on it.
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Paul cumbleton has been off work, suffering with a bad back but he's back on his feet at work and his latest log is just loaded online.... see it here:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2009Dec111260539350Log_25_of_2009.pdf
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As always, a loverly Log. I particularly like the little form of Narc. bulbocodium. So many are partially obscured by their luxurient foliage but this one's bends over nicely to display the flowers well.
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Glad to hear that Paul's back is better, enjoyed the log as always.
Angie :)
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The first Wisley Log of 2010 is online:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2010Jan071262869051Log_1_of_2010.pdf
Paul is stuck at home because of the snow, and Wisley is closed to the public..... "elf 'an' safety!"
So see the log and be treated to some great plants in Pauls' own collection.... and be jealous, as I was, of the range of lovely bird protraits he's made in his garden.... 8)
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The diversion to birdlife was very pleasing and welcome. It's lovely for me who, of those illustrated, has only the goldfinch and the greenfinch, in her garden..
Gorgeous Massonias too.
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Wow birds are beautiful but as for those Massonias what a amazing collection, cant get over the size of Massonia depressa and your Massonia pustlulata is out of this world, thanks for the close up pictures, they are just stunning. If I had plants like those I would be moving my sofa into my greenhouse, what more could you ask for Paul. Thanks for showing them to us
Angie :)
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Amazing Parakeets in your garden :o Thanks for all these poor birds ;)
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No young ring-necks at this time of year but adults will be in the mood for laying now. The bird at the feeder could be male or female because young males take 2-3 years to get the ring. The best pet I ever had was a silly tame hand reared male
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No young ring-necks at this time of year but adults will be in the mood for laying now. The bird at the feeder could be male or female because young males take 2-3 years to get the ring. The best pet I ever had was a silly tame hand reared male
Wisley Log http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2010Apr011270112980Log_7_of_2010.pdf
Primula allionii males and females are perfectly presented in the fresh April log. Congratulation to England for the elegance and top quality pictures.
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A very nice illustrated lesson in the cultivation of one group of popular plants. I wish we had the opportunity here in the far south, to put it into practice. :'(
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Super new Wisley Log just loaded to the website, Folks:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2010Jun251277462979Log_12_of_2010.pdf
thanks, Paul!
8)
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In case you have not noticed the new notice on this section of the forum, may I draw your attention to http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5672.0
Notice from Paul Cumbleton about a very special opportunity:
"Each year at Wisley we offer a funded 1 year study course for a student wishing to specialise in Alpines. For the course starting this September we still have a vacancy and need to find someone as soon as possible. It's a great opportunity for someone - if you think you may be interested full details can be found at:
http://www.rhs.org.uk/Courses/Horticultural-training/Courses-at-RHS-Garden-Wisley/Specialist-Option-Certificate-in-Rock-and-Alpine-G
You will need certain previous qualifications and experience, but this and all other details can be found at the link above. The given closing date for entries of Jan 31st this year can be ignored, but we do need applications urgently now. If you think you know anyone who may be interested but who does not read this forum, please do let them know of this opportunity.
Thanks very much for your time in reading this."
Paul Cumbleton
Team Leader
Alpine Department
RHS Wisley
This position now filled; Paul say he is "pleased to report that we have found a suitable candidate who has accepted the place. This means the opportunity is now closed. But this opportunity is repeated every year, so if anyone isinterested in the position for 2011 to 2012, commencing September 2011, do contact us."
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What a wonderful opportunity! I wonder if I could abandon my family for a year???
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Dunno, Gail..... how big a freezer have you got ?..... it would mean a lot of pre-cooking......... ::)
It is a wonderful chance to be able to apply for this placement...... I do urge anyone who knows someone who might be interested to spread the word of this opportunity.
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An excellent solution to solve the Sunny problem. ;D Aciphyllas could be employed too, but the cacti look wonderful. 8) And oh those gorgeous Calochortus!
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2nd September 2010 - Wisley Log 16 of 2010
An artistic slant to the latest Wisley Log, as the Surrey Sculpture Society are again exhibiting some of their creations around the garden and Paul shares his favourites with us 8)
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A new Wisley log is online today, with photos of the area where the new crevice garden is planned. Plus some bright South African Bulbs to cheer our day :
http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2010Sep161284630599Log_17_of_2010.pdf
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Love that Brunsvigia bosmaniae if I had that flowering in my greenhouse I would have to move in myself.
I wonder how long the flower would last.
Really nice log again thanks for sharing these lovely plants with us.
Angie :)
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This process apparently is known and used in South Africa and used to treat Leucospermums (pincushions), Leucadendrons, Ericas, Strelitzias, Helichrysums (everlastings), restios (Cape grasses), Lobelias, grasses, sedges, mesembs (vygies), Geleznowia, Hibbertia, Stirlingia, Verticordia, Actinostrobus, Pimelea, Lechenaultia Anigozanthus and many other species. (this information extracted from website)
It looks like a small industry has been started supplying materials for the process.
Information sources below:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/949419/ A forum popular in the States
http://finebushpeople.co.za/smoke_primer.html "Smoke Primer in Protea Seed Germination
How Smoke Primer disks increase fynbos and protea seed germination rates."
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Lucky Sunny to have such and elegant and interesting boudoir. ;D
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A note on log 15 re cleaning of ponds
Blanket weed can be kept down by introducing the snail Lymnaea stagnalis If they get in early enough, there will be zero blanket weed - at least in my ponds.
Göte
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A new Wisley log is online, with photos of the area where the new crevice garden is planned.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2010Sep161284630599Log_17_of_2010.pdf
Well, just as we were counting down the days to Paul updating us with his next Wisley Log to tell us how the Crevice Garden project is getting along, the Forum has a sneak-peak at it!! Giles has been to Wisley and shows a great photo of how far along the work is .... ZZ has obviously been working at full tilt with the Wisley Workers and just look at how much is done already.......
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6223.new#new
We could see from Paul's photos in the Log of the preprared area that this was going to be a pretty impressive crevice garden.... and the huge bags of stone were substantial..... but to see this much progress in around a week.... it's tremendous! This will surely be of huge interest to visitors.
I must admit (I'll say this quietly!!) that not all crevice gardens are completely to my taste..... but this one looks to be a cracker!
Fantastic work by ZZ and the Wisley Workers and thanks to Giles for bringing us the photo!
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New Wisley Log from Paul is now online..... some sumptuous colours to cheer those of us struggling with winter weather! 8) 8)
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That excellent photographer, Jon Evans, has been at Wisley and has posted a series of delightful photos from the Alpine House, new crevice gardens and also more exotic species in this topic in the AGS website..... I commend it to you....
http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/discussion/inthegarden//RHS+Wisley+in+February+/480/?page=1
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I really like the 'tower' of sempervivums! The plants look so strong - mine in the garden seem to grow at a snails pace. Presumably feeding is the answer. It is also exciting to see the Castilleja; I must refer back to the article in 'The Plantsman'. The only other plant growing outside that I've seen was in David and Stella Rankin's garden in Edinburgh. I think they have had some success with Pedicularis too (?) - it would be amazing to see these in gardens!!
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I think you are correct about the Rankins and the Pedicularis, Tim.
I believe they have had some success with several species, though I cannot say which, or if they are still growing them. I was very envious when I heard because I am very fond of pedicularis; I find them wonderful plants, especially some of the more showy Chinese and Himalayan types.
I covet Castellejas, too!
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Paul - thank you so much for your latest log. There are so many plants there that I don't know or haven't seen before, and the alpine house is extremely exciting. The Sphaeralcea on the sand bed is a definite must - but I shall have to extend my bed significantly after recent purchases! (And after listening to Peter Korn's lecture at Lamberton). An interesting P.S.; we have just had a talk from Marina Christopher on good plants for encouraging insects into the garden. She gardens on quite heavy wet soil and does well with many late perennials, but like most gardeners also wants to grow species less suited to her conditions. As a result she has had 60 tons (!) of chalk dumped in the garden. It will be really interesting to see how plants establish on this. Like sand gardening it shows how the boundaries of gardening can be pushed if your primary interest is widening the range of plants growable in the garden. (Of course she is also a very fine nurserywoman which gives even more incentive to grow good plants to propagate and collect seed from).
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Some details.....that might be useful after Tim's last post...
Marina Christopher, Paice Lane, Medstead, GU34 5PR : Phoenix Perennial Plants
http://www.franceslincoln.com/en/Contributor/449/Marina_Christopher.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/gardening/design/plant_recipes/wildlife_index.shtml
Plant Finder gives a web address but the link doesn't work.
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For an exciting visit to Wisley to cheer you in early January, see this thread:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8326.0
8) 8)