Stagonospora infection - collected threads

[Martin Baxendale]

Can you buy Dursban? It sounds like some very nasty stuff and is banned for anything but agricultural use in the US. This is interesting reading:

http://www.bhopal.net/delhi-marchers/factsheets/Dursban.pdf

[Arda Takan]

This thread is really demoralizing

[Alan_b]

If I can only grow snowdrops with the use of industrial-strength insecticides that fell off the back of a tractor then it will take a lot of the fun out of it for me!  I don't mind doing some work, particularly where I only have one bulb of the cultivar, but I would rather use something that was 50% effective on killing swift moth larvae and 0% effective on killing me than something that was 100% effective on killing swift moth larvae and 1% effective on killing me.

[Maggi Young]

I am of the opinion that something 100percent effective at killing anything is equally likely to be 100 per cent effective at killing people...... all too risky.... I can get enough risk taking thrills crossing the road, I don't need to try chemical poisoning on that scale.
I've seen too many sickly farmers.   

[KentGardener]

Can you buy Dursban? It sounds like some very nasty stuff and is banned for anything but agricultural use in the US. This is interesting reading:

http://www.bhopal.net/delhi-marchers/factsheets/Dursban.pdf

Good Lord.      A nerve toxin developed by Nazi's for chemical warfare in 1930 - and now used as a bug spray.   

[daveyp1970]

I just like to tell my tale of woe,i went to my sisters house for christmas leaving all my snowdrops 12cmx12cm pots outside(they were in pots because of a house move) forgot about them,to cut a long story short lost loads of them due to frost,very very big lesson learnt. putting the rest in the ground today if stops raining.

[Martin Baxendale]

Can you buy Dursban? It sounds like some very nasty stuff and is banned for anything but agricultural use in the US. This is interesting reading:

http://www.bhopal.net/delhi-marchers/factsheets/Dursban.pdf

Good Lord.      A nerve toxin developed by Nazi's for chemical warfare in 1930 - and now used as a bug spray.   

History of nerve agents
Early pioneers in the field include Jean Louis Lassaigne (early 19th century) and Philip de Clermount (1854). In 1932, German chemist Willy Lange and his graduate student, Gerde von Krueger, first described the cholinergic nervous system effects of organophosphates, noting a choking sensation and a dimming of vision after exposure. This discovery later inspired German chemist Gerhard Schrader at company IG Farben in the 1930s to experiment with these compounds as insecticides. Their potential use as chemical warfare agents soon became apparent, and the Nazi government put Schrader in charge of developing organophosphate (in the broader sense of the word) nerve gases. Schrader's laboratory discovered the G series of weapons, which included Sarin, Tabun, and Soman. The Nazis produced large quantities of these compounds, though did not use them during World War II. British scientists experimented with a cholinergic organophosphate of their own, called diisopropylfluorophosphate (DFP), during the war. The British later produced VX nerve agent, which was many times more potent than the G series, in the early 1950s, almost 20 years after the Germans had discovered the G series.
After World War II, American companies gained access to some information from Schrader's laboratory, and began synthesizing organophosphate pesticides in large quantities. Parathion was among the first marketed, followed by malathion and azinphosmethyl. The popularity of these insecticides increased after many of the organochlorine insecticides like DDT, dieldrin, and heptachlor were banned in the 1970s

[Jo]

I just like to tell my tale of woe,i went to my sisters house for christmas leaving all my snowdrops 12cmx12cm pots outside(they were in pots because of a house move) forgot about them,to cut a long story short lost loads of them due to frost,very very big lesson learnt. putting the rest in the ground today if stops raining.

Poor you Davey, thats a very hard lesson to learn.  I did it too the first time I bought bulbs, I think from Avon Bulbs, many years ago.  I potted them up in big pots with plenty of grit and stood them outside.

They got frozen solid and didn't survive.

I think overpotting was one of my mistakes, too much wet compost.  The other mistake was to let them freeze through.

Now I put them in a sand plunge and even chuck fleece over if a hard frost is forecast and they are newly potted.


So far this winter everything in the plunge has survived despite -12 C,  but I still think its safer to plant most snowdrops straight into the garden.

[steve owen]

Exhumed four apparently healthy clumps for routine division and latticing; one was; two had a single rotten bulb in the middle, that would doubtless have spread infection, and the fourth clump had considerable disease although there had beenno sign in the leaves apart from a slight reduction in leaf height. Now I understand better why I have lost bulbs and small clumps in the past.

[daveyp1970]

this is what i have been seeing pot after pot,i feel so stupid.This was Marjorie Brown

[Alan_b]

Davey, your main problem seems to be an absence of roots.  Those that know say planting in sharp sand is good for root formation; of course you have to feed regularly under those circumstances.  I don't see that you have anything much to lose provided you keep an eye on the snowdrops and remove any that wither. 

[steve owen]

Davey
Its difficult to tell from just one bad bulb but if you say you have this problem with quite a few pots, the problem seems more than just the growing medium - after all, healthy bulbs will try to put down roots whatever they are in. So the usual suspects are

a) frost damage leading to rotting, if the pots are quite small
b) rotting from waterlogging if the pots were standing in a wet situation before growth started
c) stagonospora disease - unlikely to have affected a lot of pots simultaneously unless you have been either v unlucky indeed or careless with the hygiene of handling and potting them (and even then widespread stag seems unlikely)
d) narcissus grub attack - but again seems unlikely to have wiped out a lot of pots simultaneously.

We've all had pots and bulbs looking like that but not in a lot of pots at the same time, I think. Any more info from your end to narrow things down?
Steve

[mark smyth]

Can you cut the bulb in half and show the photo. Is there a hole in the base? Are the scales tinged red?

[johnw]

Can you cut the bulb in half and show the photo. Is there a hole in the base? Are the scales tinged red?

Davey - It appears to me the roots have, as you say, simply frozen off in the pots. The bulb looks fine. Do you think it might be possible to chip your most important ones immediately before those shoots extend or collapse?

Here Galanthus in pots can take a lot of cold and frequently freeze as hard as rock but they absolutely must be sunk to the rim in sand or wood chips and the frame covered with white plastic or a tarp to prevent freeze/thaw, drying of the medium and water-logging. Fleece is of little use in our climate.

Best of luck to you.

johnw

[steve owen]

Davey

If you have lost all your Marjorie Brown, PM me and I'll send you a replacement.

Steve