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Author Topic: Galanthus March 2021  (Read 10155 times)

PhilG

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Re: Galanthus March 2021
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2021, 07:22:45 PM »
Some  more  photos from Dima Zubov's collection ...
Really nice to see so many species from numerous named locations  :D It's good to know they are in cultivation. Just a shame we don't have many known origin species easily available over here  :'(

Jan Jeddeloh

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Re: Galanthus March 2021
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2021, 09:37:17 PM »
Galanthus elwesii is a monster of a snowdrop for me both vigorous and tall.  Clumps up nicely too.  This is the third house I've had it at and it seems pretty unkillable.


« Last Edit: March 14, 2021, 11:17:08 PM by Maggi Young »
Jan Jeddeloh, Portland, Oregon, USA zone 8

Jan Jeddeloh

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Re: Galanthus March 2021
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2021, 10:03:52 PM »
Try again


Galanthus elwesii
« Last Edit: March 14, 2021, 11:17:54 PM by Maggi Young »
Jan Jeddeloh, Portland, Oregon, USA zone 8

Carsten

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Re: Galanthus March 2021
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2021, 11:23:09 AM »
Seed ex. 'Spindlestone Surprise' sown 5/2017 shows it's first flower. Not really similar to the mother ...
Bavarian Oberland - 695m - zone 6b

Leena

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Re: Galanthus March 2021
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2021, 11:28:29 AM »
Not similar, but a yellow snowdrop and a big inner yellow mark! I had four seeds from SS last year and they have germinated now, I hope some of them will be yellow, too.
Leena from south of Finland

Andrew Gardner

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Re: Galanthus March 2021
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2021, 07:54:24 PM »
A late flowering unnamed Nivalis which came from Jose Bavcon, Botanic Garden in Ljubljana. Opened today in the early spring Scottish sunshine ☀️

Roma

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Re: Galanthus March 2021
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2021, 09:10:29 PM »
Last to flower here in Aberdeenshire though a lot of the others are still looking good.

Galanthus platyphyllus hasn't been doing well recently.  I think the warm dry springs we've been having do not suit it. Only one flower from 7 bulbs this year.

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Roma Fiddes, near Aberdeen in north East Scotland.

Alan_b

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Re: Galanthus March 2021
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2021, 07:22:50 AM »
Galanthus platyphyllus hasn't been doing well recently.  I think the warm dry springs we've been having do not suit it. Only one flower from 7 bulbs this year.

They say it likes to be under snow in winter then very wet as the snow melts.  Can you give it those conditions?  I saw some that had been washed down from higher up and were growing near the side of a river; they must get submerged from time to time.
 
Almost in Scotland.

lavateraguy

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Re: Galanthus March 2021
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2021, 03:54:00 PM »
I asked Dima, who said ..... "Hi Maggi, it means a natural hybrid with possible parentage of koenenianus (male) x woronowii (female) "


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_DNA
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/nuclear-dna

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/chloroplast-dna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloroplast_DNA

Please pardon any teaching of egg-sucking.

Two plant organelles, the chloroplast (plastid) and mitochondrion, have their own genomes (DNA). These are uniparentally (maternally) inherited and have low levels of recombination. The mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) of plants is rather slow evolving, and isn't used much. But plastid DNA (cpDNA) is widely used for phylogenetic investigations. If the section of cpDNA selected has sufficient resolution, i.e. evolves fast enough, you can identify the female parent. There is one hazard - chloroplast capture. If there is repeated backcrossing you can end up with a population where the nuclear genome is nearly all of one species, but the plastid genome comes from another species. For example, there is a cotton species from the east side of the Gulf of California where one coastal population has the cpDNA and around 3% of the nuclear genome of a species from Baja California.

Both organelles, and the cytoplasm, have ribosomes, which are protein/RNA complexes involved in protein synthesis. The RNA component (3 different RNAs) are therefore called ribosomal RNA (rRNA). Cytoplasmic ribosomes incorporate RNA transcribed from the nuclear genome, and are therefore nuclear ribosomal RNA (nrRNA). The corresponding DNA exists as tandem arrays composed of several parts - the 3 RNA genes, and the internal transcribed (ITS), external transcribed (ETS), and non-transcribed (NTS) spacers. ITS is under low functional constraint, and therefore evolves relatively fast, and also, like cpDNA, occurs as multiple copies per cell, making it easier to sequence, and is therefore widely used for phylogenetic analysis. The nrDNA arrays undergo concerted evolution, which is a process that homogenises the sequence between repeats. It is biparentally inherited. Thus in a primary hybrid, you would find sequences from both parents. In a hybridogenic population, concerted evolution means that either one of the parental forms, or a recombinant form, wins out. If you find a sequence that matches that of a species other than the seed parent it's a fair bet that comes from the pollen parent, giving you the parentage of a hybrid. (If you don't you either have to try again in the hope of picking up the other variant, or try other nuclear loci.) There's the possibility of a problem analogous to chloroplast capture, whereby the nrDNA of species A gets introgressed into species B.

You can look to morphology, phenology, ecology, and biogeography for supporting (or otherwise) evidence for the inferred parentage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribosomal_DNA

Tristan_He

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Re: Galanthus March 2021
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2021, 09:10:44 PM »
Hi Alan, lavateraguy has provided a detailed explantion. One key point however is that chloroplast and mitochondrial DNA is inherited from the seed parent, whereas nuclear DNA is inherited from both the pollen and the seed parent - hence you can do some genetic detective work by comparing what the nuclear DNA is telling you and what the chloroplast DNA is telling you. At a basic level this could be the seed parent of a hybrid, but it could also be that gene flow in populations is mostly by pollen transfer and not seed, or that a new species evolved by hybridisation and which species were the parents.

Hope this helps. There is a lot of jargon in genetics (nearly as much as in botany).

By the way those snowdrops of Dima's are stunning. Thanks for posting Maggi.

Alan_b

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Re: Galanthus March 2021
« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2021, 11:39:37 PM »
I found all the posts on DNA highly educational.  I don't know how to suck eggs either.
Almost in Scotland.

Roma

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Re: Galanthus March 2021
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2021, 02:14:18 PM »
They say it likes to be under snow in winter then very wet as the snow melts.  Can you give it those conditions?  I saw some that had been washed down from higher up and were growing near the side of a river; they must get submerged from time to time.
No, Alan.  I cannot give G. platyphyllus ideal conditions but it has survived in this garden for over 30 years.  Conditions have changed in that time. We used to get more snow and colder winters (not every year) and the other snowdrops were mostly over before G. platyphyllus appeared..  I think the leaves got frosted last year. This year they were under snow for over a week so were protected from a few cold nights -7 then -14 then-5.  The leaves look quite healthy this year so hopefully more flowers next year.  I brought 2 bulbs back from Krestovy Pass on the Georgian Military Highway in 1979.  In June they were in full leaf and almost as big as the Colchicums they were growing with.  One bulb was planted at the Cruickshank Botanic Garden in Aberdeen.  I t was still there when I retired but has since disappeared.

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Roma Fiddes, near Aberdeen in north East Scotland.

alant

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Re: Galanthus March 2021
« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2021, 02:52:53 PM »
Can anyone identify this snowdrop.  It appeared where I used to grow Erway which I lost.  I don't remember planting any other snowdrops in the same area.  Could it be a seedling from Erway.  It flowers from early March onwards.

Leena

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Re: Galanthus March 2021
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2021, 05:00:04 PM »
G.platyphyllus seems like a snowdrop to appreciate a lot of snow. I bought seeds of it in 2019, no germination last spring, and no this year, not at least so far. I hope they are only slow to germinate, but it could also be that they were too dry when I got them:(.

Snow has now started to melt here, and my earliest spot is now without snow (but ground still frozen). Some years ago I divided my G.lagodechianus, and planted few to this early spot (the original bulbs are still under a lot of snow). Here they were coming up yesterday:).
Leena from south of Finland

Alan_b

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Re: Galanthus March 2021
« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2021, 08:51:34 PM »
Can anyone identify this snowdrop.  It appeared where I used to grow Erway which I lost.  I don't remember planting any other snowdrops in the same area.  Could it be a seedling from Erway.  It flowers from early March onwards.
Judging by the leaves, what you have there is Galanthus plicatus.  I don't grow 'Erway' but I understand that it is a hybrid so possibly crossed with a plicatus it could give rise to a seedling snowdrop that still looks like a plicatus.     
Almost in Scotland.

 


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