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Author Topic: Pulsatilla 2013  (Read 80348 times)

Lesley Cox

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Re: Pulsatilla 2013
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2013, 08:05:12 PM »
Oh my goodness, how exciting this thread has become! Having nothing at all to contribute to the discussion, I can sit back and enjoy the outstanding pictures. I hope this conversation will carry on in Tabor. :D
Lesley Cox - near Dunedin, lower east coast, South Island of New Zealand - Zone 9

Susann

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Re: Pulsatilla 2013
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2013, 08:43:53 PM »
Dearest Olga and Pulsatillan friends:  as I just checked the floras instead of doing the laundry ( the latter can wait until another day, canīt it) I have to admit that I was wrong this afternoon. Both Russian and Chinese floras and Galanin states that it is P ambigua not P turczaninovii that flowers in the same time as having leaves. I am truly sorry for my mistake. From now on, please do not trust anything I say!

Olga, perhaps we can plan a raid to Sachiyīs nursery and steal her sugawarii plant?

May I please be apologized for my mistake if I show these pictures? I will add a north American P patens; also known as P nutteliana or P ludoviciana.

Pulsatilla campanella in itīs unusual violet form. :) As Olga and I discussed the other day, it blooms all summer long into autumn, not remonting but really blomming.

Pulsatilla patens. This is the form, I believe, that many persons who is dreaming about P halleri `Budapestī confuses with the latter.

Pulsatilla integrifolia x vernalis. Not so bad is it? It had the integrifolian leaves, but are now gone to Pulsatilla heaven. I only got this flower. P integrifolia is the former Miyakea integrifolia, endemic to Sakhalin island.

Olga mentioned spring in the beginning when joining this thread. This species, P halleri ssp taurica is always the earliest one in my garden, often showing itīs buds in full winter, It is earlier than P vernalis in my garden. Although this picture was taken first days of April. The buds had been developing under the snow, I enjoyed them everytime "the old Lady Thaw" had wiped her brom over my garden trying to chase Mr Winter away.
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Lesley Cox

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Re: Pulsatilla 2013
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2013, 09:17:08 PM »
My word, how lucky we are to have two such great photographers showing these super plants. All that beautiful fluffiness - it is just delicious, and so warming. :)
Lesley Cox - near Dunedin, lower east coast, South Island of New Zealand - Zone 9

Carlo

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Re: Pulsatilla 2013
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2013, 11:19:15 PM »
Outstanding posts by all! Threads like this keep people coming back to the Forum. Keep up the good work!

AND, good gods, look at that P. sugawarii!
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Olga Bondareva

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Re: Pulsatilla 2013
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2013, 06:38:49 AM »
Dear Susann, that's very good you started the dispute on P. turczaninovii.  :) Hope we will continue after several years. And you know where we can do it.   :-*
Olga, perhaps we can plan a raid to Sachiyīs nursery and steal her sugawarii plant?
Yes but I'd prefer to wait until it become full of seeds.  :)

Quote
Pulsatilla campanella in itīs unusual violet form. :) As Olga and I discussed the other day, it blooms all summer long into autumn, not remonting but really blomming.

Is it the same to mine?



Look at this picture

From left to right leaves of violet P. campanella, yellow P. campanella and P. albana. I can't find difference between first two ones. But what a difference in flower shape and color!
Olga Bondareva, Moscow, Zone 3

Susann

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Re: Pulsatilla 2013
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2013, 01:14:06 PM »
Olga, I totally agree with you, the yellow flowered P Campanella is certainly not a P albana ssp albana. There are too much difference not only in leaves but flower shape and steam and there should be much more leaves at time of flower.
But this post is actually more for Tim. Please, cross your fingers, as I think I have some P patens ssp flavescens seedlings ( from wild collected seeds in Kazakstan) in the coldframes. If so, I could send you some in spring if you are interested?

Pulsatilla patens ssp flavescens, seeds from Baikal area, the first one I showed I do not know the origin of.

Another P patens ssp flavescens, seeds from Ural.

And have a look at this picture. Russia is not only home of yellow campanellas, but also the natural habitat of giraffe!( Together with Pulsatilla patens

( But if I have to be honest the picture is actually taken in Kazakstan or Kyrgystan) Photo by the Swedish  bicycling globetrotter STELLAN JOHANSSON

Here comes an interesting thing:

The photographer is Dr TIMO IKONEN från Finland. He thinks it is a P patens x vernalis. Could it be? They belong to different subsections but the might grow in same areas. The leaves does not really look as the patens I have seen, when they have broader leaves they are usually palmate? I tend to believe it is a white form of P patens? P vernalis leaves does look as you know as on the picture  but they use to have another segment of lateral leaflets added to it? And the stalks are very high? Letīs see what you say?
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Susann

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Re: Pulsatilla 2013
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2013, 01:39:53 PM »
And as we are into yellow: Olga showed a picture with leave of a P albana ssp albana. Here is an image of the yellow form. I think the correct name of the form is Pulsatilla albana ssp albana f sulphurea? But you also see it named as Pulsatilla albana ssp albana f flavescens and f lutea. In case you are not too familiar with latin and greek; they all mean "yellow". This year in a seedlist. I think it was the SRGC, actually, but if I am wrong I strongly apologize. Anyway, in a seedlist the species was named as Pulsatilla albana `Luteaī. That, at least I can say, is not correct. It is not a cultivar, it is a natural and common form of the very variable Pulsatilla albana. And if you do not grow it yet I have to add it is a very easy and longlived plant. You can grow it almost anywhere. At least I do. 

More imformation if there is someone who does not know much about the albana. It has many subspecies; albana, armena, georgica and violacea. If ssp andina ( not to be confused with the Andes) excists I am not sure, some botanists say it does, some says it does not. By the way, albana belongs to the some subsection, Albanae, as P campanella and turczaninovii and ambigua. ( But Aichele puts ambigua as a ssp to turczaninovii in his work) Yes, it is a mess

Ok, here comes the picture:


Here is another nice yellow species, the strictly European ( I think?) P alpina ssp apiifolia.  I add some information about this one too, in case someone is not very familiar with it. You also see it named as P alpina ssp sulphurea but apiifolia is the correct name. It prefers a lower Ph, you can grow it in a peatblock ( but I also have it in the rockery and in the normal border). It is interesting, as the white P alpina normally is found in calcerous grounds. P alpina ssp apiifolia has a very strong steam, I think the English word might be rigid? Also the leaves are "hard" when touched.

Now I leave the thread to someone else to continue. Iīm looking forward to see and learn more!
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Armin

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Re: Pulsatilla 2013
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2013, 02:15:36 PM »
Thanks for the marvelous images 8)

I'm now quite convinced the shy flowering plant I grow as P. turczaninovii is actual P.ambigua.

I'd like to add a photo of my hairiest pulsatilla P. halleri ssp.???

I'm still confused if it is ssp. halleri or ssp. rhodopaea (as the donated seed package said) or is it Pulsatilla styriaca?
Any good key to distinguish P. halleri ssp group?

I close, after all the violet, blue and yellow flowers, with my best red form P. vulgaris 'Rote Glocke'.
It is a pity the plant rotted during a wet summer :'(
Best wishes
Armin

astragalus

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Re: Pulsatilla 2013
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2013, 02:42:49 PM »
Just discovered this marvelous thread.  Thank you so much for starting it, Susann, and for all your beautiful pictures.  I have to admit to growing only the most common ones but do have the last one pictured, Pulsatilla Rote Glocke.  It's so reliable despite our usually bad winters and it keeps blooming even after late snows.  The color is also excellent.  Pulsatilla halleri slavica is a beauty - so nice to have the flowers upturned. 
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Hudson River Valley in New York State

Tim Ingram

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Re: Pulsatilla 2013
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2013, 04:30:24 PM »
Susann - if there is an opportunity to try P. flavescens (or seed), I would jump at the chance! Just from a gardening viewpoint I don't know of hybrid pulsatillas, and presumably if they do occur in the wild it is highly likely they would be found in greater numbers than just one like that beautiful plant you picture (putative patens x vernalis - I would agree that it is a pale form of patens). But where plants have been 'split' into many potential species, but are really genetically very close it seems much more likely that more variation would occur, and that looks so with turczaninovii and allied species. I don't know with pulsatillas but when I have grown some other plants from wild collected seed there can be remarkable variation and it does begin to cloud the concept of a 'species' to some extent. But they are all extremely beautiful!
Dr. Timothy John Ingram. Nurseryman & gardener with strong interest in plants of Mediterranean-type climates and dryland alpines. Garden in Kent, UK. www.coptonash.plus.com

Susan Band

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Re: Pulsatilla 2013
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2013, 05:54:19 PM »
Great Pulsatilla photos.
 It encouraged me to go and see how my new seed from Josef Jurask was getting on. He had a good selection on his seed list his year. I think I bought most species he had but there might be some left for the quick few that are inspired by the photos. jurasekalpineATatlas.cz
Mine haven't germinated yet but they have only be sown a week or 2.

Susan
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Susann

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Re: Pulsatilla 2013
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2013, 06:04:03 PM »
Armin, perhaps this will help you with your halleri? It is in a language I think you will enjoy!

If it is not readible this way, please send me a message and I will mail them to you. One of the images is upside down, I apoolgize for that but my scanner is very stupidly placed so I can not put the book into it as I wish. Perhaps someone knows how to turn a document before adding it and can tell me?EDIT_ pic turned!

The scans are from Klaus Kaiserīs bok "Anemonen". There is a chapter about some of the Pulsatilla species, far from all though ( even if we skip the confusion with ssp and f and v being described as species in the litterature) I think he has just copied older floras in his descriptions, as some time the description is identical as far as I can see.

And Tim, unfortunally it is very difficult to understand when an English-speaking person talks ( or writes) but I think you are saying something like it is a mess trying to describe Pulsatillas from different localities as different species when it is really one and the same species but with a big natural variation? At least, that is my belief about this genus. And, no offence at all, but the Russians use much more species than the European does, we tend to say ssp or f or v, when they give them a species name.
Change of subject; Olga told me today she has found two Russians that put P turczaninovii as a ssp of vulgaris respective ssp of grandis. For me, grandis is a ssp itself. Why did I start this thread, we get more and more confused.  (And as I think I wrote before, Aichele claims ambigua is a ssp of turczaninovii.)

But, what do we say about this strange species? ( Excuse the very bad pictures)


it is P kostyczewii,  a very strange intermediar between Pulsatilla and Anemone. It has rhizomes, as no one else of the Pulsatillas have as far as I know, but still it appears to be more Pulsatilla than Anemone. ( But there is also a discussion to put Pulsatilla back into Anemone...) Oh, my..Why donīt we speak about Haquetia epipactis instead?

Olga, when you have got time, could you please add the beautiful  darj said-to-be Pulsatilla bungeana ssp astragalifolia? I got one plant of that ssp and I was told that it had darkblue flowers, but mine does not have that broad lobes of the  leaves as on the picture I am mentioning. My plant has very finely diveded lobes. I just have to wait and see. But still, it was collected close to Ulan-Baator so I do have some hope.

Now I realize the cake is burning in the oven. Off I run...
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 06:20:48 PM by Maggi Young »
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Natalia

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Re: Pulsatilla 2013
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2013, 07:28:08 PM »
Colleagues, can here these drawings will little help with an identification of your Pulsatilla.
These are illustrations to the classical work Flora of the USSR.
Colleagues, can here these drawings will little help with an identification of your Pulsatilla
Now in Russia there are some schools, which have different views on Pulsatilla classification. Who from them is right possibly can show the genetic analysis (excuse, I don't know as to call in English)

« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 07:30:26 PM by Natalia »
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Re: Pulsatilla 2013
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2013, 08:33:52 PM »
Thanks for the marvelous images 8)
I'm now quite convinced the shy flowering plant I grow as P. turczaninovii is actual P.ambigua.
I'd like to add a photo of my hairiest pulsatilla P. halleri ssp.???
I'm still confused if it is ssp. halleri or ssp. rhodopaea (as the donated seed package said) or is it Pulsatilla styriaca?
Any good key to distinguish P. halleri ssp group?
I close, after all the violet, blue and yellow flowers, with my best red form P. vulgaris 'Rote Glocke'.
It is a pity the plant rotted during a wet summer :'(

Great Pulsatilla halleri Armin .  :o   Unglaublich ,Unwirklich !   I like the hairy character !
And I like the picture to , first class ...
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 08:37:37 PM by krisderaeymaeker »
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Darren

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Re: Pulsatilla 2013
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2013, 08:44:44 PM »
The information in this thread exemplifies the things that make this forum great.  :)  Wonderful pictures everyone.

I can contribute a couple from our own rock garden:

Pulsatllla alpina ssp apiifolia. As said above normally inhabits acid soil but is perfectly happy in our pH 7.7 on a limestone rock garden. It does seem to abort its flowers if our late winter and spring are not to its liking. Seedlings also do well. (Conversely ssp alpina dies out very quickly here despite being theoretically better suited to our limestone soil). Near it is the next picture which I think is P. pratensis ssp nigricans.





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