We hope you have enjoyed the SRGC Forum. You can make a Paypal donation to the SRGC by clicking the above button

Author Topic: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006  (Read 28840 times)

David Nicholson

  • Hawkeye
  • Journal Access Group
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 13117
  • Country: england
  • Why can't I play like Clapton
Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #60 on: December 29, 2006, 09:53:37 PM »
I had hair, boundless energy!!, could drink anyone under the table as long as they were paying, and still didn't have money. ;D
David Nicholson
in Devon, UK  Zone 9b
"Victims of satire who are overly defensive, who cry "foul" or just winge to high heaven, might take pause and consider what exactly it is that leaves them so sensitive, when they were happy with satire when they were on the side dishing it out"

razvan chisu

  • Journal Access Group
  • Full Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 163
  • Country: gb
Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #61 on: January 03, 2007, 12:26:34 PM »
Hello
I would like to ask if anyone knows of Colchicum autumnale f. oec. vernum. It is a form which flowers in spring. Last year in March just as the snow was melting, I found it flowering in Romania, near Brasov. Does anyone have any information on this form, if it is cultivated, its taxonomic status, etc. The Romanian Flora which helped me in identifying it is rather old (1966).
alpines, ferns, bulbs, climbers, shrubs,annuals, tropicals, edibles, vegetables, etc

http://razvanchisu.blogspot.co.uk/

Kees Jan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 352
  • Country: nl
    • Kees Jan's botanical trips
Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #62 on: January 03, 2007, 03:48:19 PM »
Hi Razvan,

I have never heard of it. Could it possibly be Bulbocodium vernum (syn. Colchicum vernum)? Some nice pics at:
http://www.florealpes.com/fiche_bulbocode.php
http://flora.nhm-wien.ac.at/Seiten-Arten/Colchicum-vernum.htm

I suppose Bulbocodium vernum occurs in Romania since http://www.odysseybulbs.com/bulbvernlge.jpg says its distribution ranges "from the Pyrenees to the Carpathians". There is also a related species, B. versicolor that grows in Hungary and some adjacent countries. http://pensiunituristice.com/ema_catalog_produse-2715-Turism-308-Cluj_Napoca-11-Orase-PensiuniTuristice.com.html seems to indicate that B. vernum occurs near Brasov although I'm not quite sure since I can't actually read it ???.

C. autumnale var. vernum is mentioned at http://www.springerlink.com/content/v74268397qm3q71x/ but this is just a reference to a very old issue of Plant Systematics and Evolution, Volume 48, Number 3 / March, 1898. Since this and The Romanian Flora are quite old I would not be surprised if the plant is B. vernum, which is known to be a snow melt plant.

The tepals in Bulbocodium are separate, unlike in C. autumnale where they are fused in the tube. Do you have any pictures of this plant?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2007, 04:16:46 PM by Kees Jan »
Kees Jan van Zwienen

Alblasserdam, The Netherlands (joint editor of Folium Alpinum, the journal of the Dutch Rock Garden Club "NRV")

photosite: http://keesjan.smugmug.com
twitter: https://twitter.com/KJVZ10
http://www.facebook.com/kees.jan.927

mark smyth

  • Hopeless Galanthophile
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15254
  • Country: gb
Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #63 on: January 03, 2007, 10:12:38 PM »
This is one of mine flowering last March
Antrim, Northern Ireland Z8
www.snowdropinfo.com / www.marksgardenplants.com / www.saveourswifts.co.uk

When the swifts arrive empty the green house

All photos taken with a Canon 900T and 230

razvan chisu

  • Journal Access Group
  • Full Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 163
  • Country: gb
Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #64 on: January 04, 2007, 05:49:14 AM »
Hello
No, it is not Bulbocodium vernum. I also searched the net and found this sinonimity, but I know Bulbocodium versicolor which grows about 500 m from my house and garden. I am talking of a real Colchicum autumnale (or something very similar to it) but which flowers in early spring. As I am working at the herbarium of the Botanical Garden in Cluj I also cheked here for plants of this form and found one which was flowering in May, and which is classified as autumnale. I also found at the library here the article of Karin Persson on Colchicum in the Balkans, but she does not mention flowering at such an early stage in the year. I have some pictures, but they are stored on my harddisk at home. Sadly my computer is now damaged and I cannot access them.
Razvan
alpines, ferns, bulbs, climbers, shrubs,annuals, tropicals, edibles, vegetables, etc

http://razvanchisu.blogspot.co.uk/

David Shaw

  • SRGC Publications Manager
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1228
Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #65 on: January 04, 2007, 01:15:25 PM »
I am getting confused, again.
How can a plant have autumnale in its name and be spring flowering?
I must assume that autumnale does not mean autumn?
David Shaw, Forres, Moray, Scotland

David Shaw

  • SRGC Publications Manager
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1228
Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #66 on: January 04, 2007, 01:22:09 PM »
Autumnale does mean autumn flowering
Vernum means spring flowering

Huh!
David Shaw, Forres, Moray, Scotland

Kees Jan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 352
  • Country: nl
    • Kees Jan's botanical trips
Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #67 on: January 04, 2007, 02:40:25 PM »
Razvan,

Did the plants you photographed had leaves while flowering? And did the herbarium specimen that was collected in flower in May had leaves?

I suppose normal C. autumnale flowers well before any leaves develop. Is there also "normal" autumnale in the area?

Any chance of uploading a digital picture of the herbarium sheet? That would be very interesting. :)

Some "autumn" species like Crocus laevigatus and Galanthus reginae-olgae have a very long flowering period (C. laevigatus October-March (April)). In the case of the Galanthus the "spring" flowering form is given taxonomic recognition. An example of an autumn subspecies of a spring Crocus is C. biflorus ssp. melantherus.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2007, 05:14:39 PM by Kees Jan »
Kees Jan van Zwienen

Alblasserdam, The Netherlands (joint editor of Folium Alpinum, the journal of the Dutch Rock Garden Club "NRV")

photosite: http://keesjan.smugmug.com
twitter: https://twitter.com/KJVZ10
http://www.facebook.com/kees.jan.927

razvan chisu

  • Journal Access Group
  • Full Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 163
  • Country: gb
Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #68 on: January 05, 2007, 05:33:47 AM »
Hello
The plants in the field and the herbarium sheet have no leaves. Also the bulb is caracteristic of Colchicum not of Bulbocodium.
I was curios if plants in cultivation of this variety flower each year at the same time (spring.)
Razvan
alpines, ferns, bulbs, climbers, shrubs,annuals, tropicals, edibles, vegetables, etc

http://razvanchisu.blogspot.co.uk/

Anthony Darby

  • Bug Buff & Punster
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9647
  • Country: nz
Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #69 on: January 28, 2007, 03:31:27 PM »
Here's two pics of Colchicum minutum. One after the mice got to it and the other plant in the pot.
Anthony Darby, Auckland, New Zealand.
"Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution"
http://www.dunblanecathedral.org.uk/Choir/The-Choir.html

mark smyth

  • Hopeless Galanthophile
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15254
  • Country: gb
Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #70 on: January 28, 2007, 03:59:37 PM »
I have something similar in flower with out a label. In one of my troughs is C. cretense. The second shot was taken with the aid of a shaving mirror to reflect the sun light behind a stone
Antrim, Northern Ireland Z8
www.snowdropinfo.com / www.marksgardenplants.com / www.saveourswifts.co.uk

When the swifts arrive empty the green house

All photos taken with a Canon 900T and 230

David Nicholson

  • Hawkeye
  • Journal Access Group
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 13117
  • Country: england
  • Why can't I play like Clapton
Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #71 on: January 28, 2007, 04:41:51 PM »
On reflection the second picture looks better :D
David Nicholson
in Devon, UK  Zone 9b
"Victims of satire who are overly defensive, who cry "foul" or just winge to high heaven, might take pause and consider what exactly it is that leaves them so sensitive, when they were happy with satire when they were on the side dishing it out"

Anthony Darby

  • Bug Buff & Punster
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9647
  • Country: nz
Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #72 on: January 28, 2007, 05:44:34 PM »
I thought Colchicum cretense flowered in October/November?
Anthony Darby, Auckland, New Zealand.
"Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution"
http://www.dunblanecathedral.org.uk/Choir/The-Choir.html

mark smyth

  • Hopeless Galanthophile
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15254
  • Country: gb
Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #73 on: January 28, 2007, 06:07:05 PM »
very funny, David.

Anthony that's what it was bought as. I have photographed it before now so I comment
« Last Edit: January 28, 2007, 06:08:36 PM by mark smyth »
Antrim, Northern Ireland Z8
www.snowdropinfo.com / www.marksgardenplants.com / www.saveourswifts.co.uk

When the swifts arrive empty the green house

All photos taken with a Canon 900T and 230

Anthony Darby

  • Bug Buff & Punster
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9647
  • Country: nz
Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #74 on: January 28, 2007, 07:37:20 PM »
Cretense should have brown anthers.
Anthony Darby, Auckland, New Zealand.
"Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution"
http://www.dunblanecathedral.org.uk/Choir/The-Choir.html

 


Scottish Rock Garden Club is a Charity registered with Scottish Charity Regulator (OSCR): SC000942
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal