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Author Topic: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006  (Read 28747 times)

DaveM

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2006, 07:23:37 PM »
Kees, thanks for this. I don't recall seeing the board in 2005 when I was there, nor seeing the other species at Monemvasia. However, did see all the species mentioned during my visit to the Pelops in latest October/first few days of November. This seems to be the optimum time for seeing these and even some of the early winter species, Crocus speciosus ssp melantherus, Crocus boryi along with Narcissus tazetta and just a few Anemone coronaria; C goulimyi and C g leucanthos were at their glorious best, with the abandoned olive groves simply covered, what a marvellous sight. I understand that a party that went the same week this year saw much the same as we did last year. Onlt saw just a few Colchicum lingulatum, that one the only one worth a photo in the pouring rain. Might be that this was the start of their period; no idea about rarity though.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2006, 07:26:40 PM by DaveM »
Dave Millward, East Lothian, Scotland

Gerben

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2006, 07:37:35 PM »
Thank you Kees Jan for the beautiful nature pictures.

Dave, according to Jimmy are you right about the stevenii.
Gerben Tjeerdsma, Sweden

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DaveM

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2006, 07:52:42 PM »
Many thanks Gerben, we were terribly confused by this time!!!!

Dave Millward, East Lothian, Scotland

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2006, 12:25:41 AM »
   Hi! every ones who are in colchiums thread.
 I didn't know that there were so beatifull things in this corner too. I should  to visite more often.
 I would like to attach two pictures of my which has taken last week in sw Turkey. If some one could    help me to nameing them. I would be happy.....!
  thanks to everybody.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2006, 05:20:48 PM by ibrahim »

Kees Jan

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2006, 10:11:03 AM »
Hi Ibrahim,

I think the first picture is one of the species in the cupanii group because the leaves are present at flowering time (often the case in this group), the straight style and the absence of tessellation in the tepals. C. cupanii itself does not seem to be reported from Turkey but I would expect that there are several related species in your country. I think pusillum and triphyllum are Turkish examples of this group but there are probably more. I don’t think it’s pusillum though because the leaves in your plant are much wider and I think triphyllum is supposed to flower in February-April. Did your plant only had two leaves?

The second species reminds me of C. boissieri, which I know as a mountain species in Greece but it’s also reported from Turkey. This species has a rhizome like underground storage organ, often spreading tepals, more or less straight white styles and yellow anthers.
The boissieri plants I photographed in Greece did not display the clear yellow zones at the base of the filaments that are present in your picture though. They also sometimes had a white line dividing each tepal in two and occasionally the tepals were very slightly tessellated (chequered).

Although your plant is clearly somewhat similar to C. boissieri it may very well be C. baytopiorum, which is an endemic species from Turkey. Dave showed us a picture of this species earlier in this thread. I found several other pics on the internet and the plants in all these pictures seem to be very similar to the plant in your photograph, including the yellow zones at the base of the filaments. Here are the links:

http://www.bulbsociety.org/GALLERY_OF_THE_WORLDS_BULBS/GRAPHICS/Colchicum/Colchicum_baytopiorum/Colchicum_baytopiorum.html
http://www.pc-nijssen.nl/shop/info.php?code=10
http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum/Colchicum_baytopiorum_JMW.jpg
http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum/Colchicum_baytopiorum_AT.jpg
http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum/Colchicum_baytopiorum_AT6.jpg
http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/Plants_Album/Colchicaceae/Colchicum/slides/Colchicum%20baytopiorum%200002.html
http://www.hillkeep.ca/images/H.Colchicum_baytopiorum_993-068x.jpg


Recently Colchicum chlorobasis, a species endemic to southern Turkey, was described. According to an abstract from the paper in which it was described it differs from boissieri ”mainly in having a larger, more rounded corm with only short lobes, browner more evanescent tunics projecting along the cataphyll, and more leaves. Both have greenish filament bases.”
Apparently baytopiorum is not only somewhat similar too boissieri and chlorobasis but also near sieheanum. You might like to order the original paper which has distribution maps, a key and illustrations. This should enable you to distinghuish these four species. I think it’s available from the following site: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=435423

Could you tell us a bit more about where you found these plants (habitat, altitude)?

It’s nice to see Colchicum pics from Turkey! :) Is the southwest the best part of the country for autumn bulbs?

Kees Jan
« Last Edit: December 20, 2006, 08:07:49 PM by Kees Jan »
Kees Jan van Zwienen

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DaveM

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2006, 08:21:56 PM »
Ibrahim
I have attached an image of C boissieri, taken in Antalya in November this year. Another character perhaps worth considering with the two species that Kees suggests is the growth habit. C baytopiorum is typically forms a number of flowers and ?bulbs growing close together. In contrast, C boissieri tends to form single almost straight lines of 3 maybe 4 single flowers, so typical of the group of colchicums that form underground rhizom-like structures (as C psaridis, illustrated earlier).

Great to see these images.
Dave
Dave Millward, East Lothian, Scotland

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2006, 01:11:08 AM »
  Hi Kees!
Thank you very much for your interest. Yes. my secend one should be c baytopiorum as Dave confirmation
too. I have discovered that under the some kinds of oaks mostly in shadow sides with big amount very
close to each ather. Altıtute was around 850 m. There was no flowers  on. All around was covered by two or three large green leaves It was left only one flower on, that was it. looks very simmiler as link down.

http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/Plants_Album/Colchicaceae/Colchicum/slides/Colchicum%20baytopiorum%200002.html

 
For the first picture flowers looks like c cupanii but leaves are more different usualy with four or three
leaves and that one was 400 m altitute, roky, open slope and suny side of the hill.
I'm posting a few photos more to help you for identification. the last photo is way-out no leaves, thiny and
darker petals. All of this photos has taken in Antalya.

 
  Best wishes....






« Last Edit: December 21, 2006, 01:16:17 AM by ibrahim »

Kees Jan

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2006, 09:20:40 AM »
Hi Ibrahim,

I did not realise that your plant had leaves when it was in flower and this should rule out C. boissieri, it's actually one of the most obvious differences :). Although several of the baytopiorum pics do not show leaves I have never heard of (or seen) leaves on flowering plants of C. boissieri.

It's interesting that presence or absence of leaves in some species of autumn bulbs seems to depend to some degree on the weather: there are species that have leaves when they are in flower as long as there is sufficient moisture (early rains) but which flower before the production of leaves when there is not enough moisture (I suppose Cyclamen graecum is a good example). Also several species flower for many weeks and gradually produce leaves during this time (perhaps also due to the fact that temperatures are gradually dropping as autumn advances?).

I'm attaching some boissieri pics from Greece, photographed on the lower slopes of Mount Giona.
Kees Jan van Zwienen

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Gerben

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2006, 06:39:06 PM »
I'm not a Colchicum specialist and will ask Jimmy and Karin if they could take a look at the beautiful Colchicum pictures you all put on the forum.
Today I made some pictures of Colchicum's in flower in our bulb house.
Starting with Colchicum doerfleri from the former Yugoslavia the second is Colchicum serpentinum from Turkye, Nigde followed by Colchicum hungaricum and jolantae. The last one is one of the species we collected in Zagros Mts. in Iran, Colchicum varians.
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mark smyth

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2006, 07:12:31 PM »
all very nice. Gerben thanks for the photos
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hadacekf

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2006, 08:01:33 PM »
Thank you very much for showing us your rare Colchicums. Gerben I am happy to see them.
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Kees Jan

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #41 on: December 27, 2006, 09:04:31 PM »
Thanks for your pictures Gerben.

I'm attaching another Colchicum, photographed in Crete: Colchicum macrophyllum. I photographed this in the SW foothills of the Dikti Mts. One of the pics shows the wide leaves from the previous growing season...

Kees Jan
Kees Jan van Zwienen

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mark smyth

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2006, 06:25:06 PM »
here is a new one for me but they flowers dont look happy. Maybe i should grow my colchicums in the troughs at the front of the house which has better light. Colchicum sfikasianum follwed by what was bought as hungaricum 'Album' but looking a bit like trigynum
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tonyg

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2006, 08:39:43 PM »
Mark. If your 'C hungaricum' is really C. trigynum the 'tube' will be divided all the way down, not a solid tube.

Kees Jan

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2006, 09:16:18 PM »
Hi Mark,

Thanks for your pictures. I don't think your C. sfikasianum is true to name though. I'm attaching some pics of this Colchicum from the wild and it is a very different plant. I took these pics on October 4th this year. The flowers are rather pale in the wild (although somewhat variable) and always tesselated (chequered). C. sfikasisanum is a very distinct species once you have seen it.

By the way, "Scottish Rock"  members might be interested to know that this Colchicum was described as new to science in "The Rock Garden"!!! (Kit Tan & G. Iatrou, June 1995). Colchicum psaridis is also discussed in this article. Both are endemic to Greece and both are quite local in the southern Peloponnese.

I can't help you with the correct name for you sfikasianum picture ???.

Kees Jan
Kees Jan van Zwienen

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