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Author Topic: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006  (Read 28750 times)

mark smyth

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2006, 07:53:01 PM »
just brought in my Colchicum kesselringii to measure them. The largest is 3.5cm to the tip of the style
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DaveM

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2006, 09:34:38 PM »
Thanks, Gerben, for the details on the colchicum, just what I needed. Here's a couple of images of autumn ones from Antalya province. The first is C variegatum, this particular specimen in fragmented serpentinite (we also saw them on limestone). The second is C baytopiorum, at Termessos. The third was seen just outside of the town of Lymra, growing in crevices in limestone; not sure what to call this, some in the party thought stevenii, others that it seems near to pusillum. Comments appreciated.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2006, 09:53:04 PM by Maggi Young »
Dave Millward, East Lothian, Scotland

mark smyth

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2006, 01:38:22 PM »
Three Colchicums from today. The late surge from C. autumnale 'Alboplenum', C. hungaricum 'Album' and C. kesselringii
Antrim, Northern Ireland Z8
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Kees Jan

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2006, 06:34:58 PM »
Mark and others,

I planted C. autumnale Album from a Dutch wholsale nursery last summer and they all appeared with double flowers a few months later, very similar to your autumnale 'Alboplenum'. Do you know if there are any other small, white Colchicum cultivars with double flowers around or can I be fairly sure that I grow this cultivar?

I'm attaching a few more Colchicum pics... This is C. parlatoris photographed in the Mani and Malea Peninsula's, southern Peloponnese. Although this is a local species it can be found in very large numbers in the Southern Peloponnese. It is quite closely related to cupanii and parlatoris but has yellow anthers and usually no leaves when in flower.

Kees Jan

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Kees Jan

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2006, 07:17:07 PM »
A few pics of two close relatives of C. parlatoris photographed in Greece. These are C. psaridis and cupanii. You can't really tell them apart unless you look at the bulbs, a rhizome like structure in psaridis and a 'normal' bulb in cupanii. There is no need to dig up wild plants though since psaridis is restricted to the Mani Peninsula and, as far as I know, the otherwise widespread cupanii does not grow there... The hairs on leaves of the C. psaridis picture are not really typical for the species.

Kees Jan

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Kees Jan

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2006, 07:33:55 PM »
Final pics for today, I think this Colchicum also belongs in the group of cupanii, parlatoris and psaridis...

These are pics from Crete and it is either C. cretense or pusillum, photographed at about 1100m just north of the Lasithi Plateau. It is interesting that some plants in this populations had leaves at flowering time while others did not... Can anyone explain me how to tell those two species apart? Any help will be much appreciated!

Kees Jan

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mark smyth

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2006, 07:45:27 PM »
thanks very much Kees for the wonderful photos. My hairy leaved Colchicum cupani is identical to your C. psaridis. Your photos make me want to go to Peloponnese evem more
Antrim, Northern Ireland Z8
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When the swifts arrive empty the green house

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DaveM

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2006, 10:47:15 AM »
Excellent pics Kees. I had great difficulty last autumn trying to tell psaridis and cupanii apart and thus had to investigate the underground bits. However, cupanii does grow in great numbers at Monemvassia, on the rock, along with Cyclamen graecum and Sternbergia sicula (if I remember correctly).

Mark, yes you should go to the Pelops. There is such a variety of autumn bulbs growing there, end October, early November seems to be a good time. You could even take in, dare I say,  Galanthus regina-olgae in the Taygetos mountains..... No doubt spring is good too though I haven't ventured then as yet.
Dave Millward, East Lothian, Scotland

DaveM

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2006, 10:57:02 AM »
Cochicum psaridis - underground
Needless to say this was covered up again after phographing!
Dave Millward, East Lothian, Scotland

mark smyth

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2006, 11:16:33 AM »
Dave I'm thinking of going in 2008. All my days off next year are used up. It's interesting how deep that Colchicum is. I was told to plant them with their noses on or just below the surface
Antrim, Northern Ireland Z8
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Kees Jan

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2006, 01:47:59 PM »
I'm attaching a C. parlatoris picture that shows the new leaves. Although these are normally absent when flowering you will occasionally find plants with leaves just emerging which makes identification easier.

The other Colchicum is sfikasianum, which seems to be quite rare on the Mani peninsula but grows in very large numbers on the Malea Peninsula.

Dave, interesting that cupanii also grows on Monemvasia, did you find any Crocus hadriaticus ssp. parnonicus there? It is reported from Monemvasia but I was there too early. The only place where I found cupanii in the Peloponnese is Mount Didimo, 40km east of Nafplio. By the way, C. cupanii was very small in the Didimo population, maybe because of the altitude (about 1000m). It just started to flower when I was there in early October.

Kees Jan van Zwienen

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hadacekf

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2006, 02:14:28 PM »
I think your Colchicum cretense looks about right Kees Jan. Here is my plant, but it survived not the winter two years ago. Thank you for all the beautiful pictures from nature.
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DaveM

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2006, 02:54:06 PM »
Kees. I've just checked my field notes and note that we also found a few cupanii near the roadside a few kms on the approach to Monemvasia from Gythio, I guess at no great altitude. No, I have no record, nor recollection (mind you my memory these days is not reliable - failing disk space no wonder??), of seeing Crocus hadriaticus on the rock, just Crocus goulimyi in the wonderful pale lilac form that is seen at Sikea. Paul Krause, in his article in the AGS bulletin (vol 72 no 4, p 367) on autumn bulbs from the Pelops doesn't mention C hadriaticus on Monemvasia, either. By the way, the Sternbergia was lutea, not sicula - my apologies (what did I say about those little grey cells.....).

Mark, yes we also examined the underground bits of several colchicum this year in Antalya and all were well down in the red earth. They seem to like this environment, though some species like C baytopioum and the aff pusillum I showed earlier in this thread were seen in crevices where there can't be much of anything to grow in?? apart from perhaps a little decaying vegetation.

Attached is another colchicum from the Pelops, C lingulatum, from just north of Lambokambos.
Dave Millward, East Lothian, Scotland

Maggi Young

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2006, 03:35:32 PM »
Thanks for these "wild" pix, everyone... it is great to see the plants at home. Mark, about the only bulb we would ever plant with its nose at, or even through the ground would be the like of Nerines, who hate to be underground. Just about all the others like to be down deep and cool/cosy, depending on the weather!
Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!

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Kees Jan

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Re: Colchicums late Autumn / early Winter 2006
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2006, 06:53:45 PM »
Dave. I'm attaching a picture of an information board near the bridge to Monemvasia. According to this not only Crocus goulimyi grows on Monemvasia but also C. hadriaticus ssp. parnonicus, C. laevigatus and C. niveus. I did not see any of these myself on the island though since early October seems to be a bit too early to find croci in flower at low altitude.
Nice to see Colchicum lingulatum in the wild. It's a species that I would like to see one day. When was it in flower? Is it quite rare?

Franz, I had a look in 'Flowers of Crete' by Fielding, Turland and Mathew (2004). Colchicum cretense apparently replaces C. pusillum at high altitude. It is mainly found between 1200-2300m and has apparently slightly larger anthers, which are dark rather than yellow. These dark anthers "seem to be a constant feature".

It is interesting that both yellow and dark anther colours occur in your picture, this also seems to be the case with some of the populations that I photographed in the wild in Crete. Most of my Colchicum pictures from Crete have yellow anthers though, even on plants photographed at 'high altitude'. I'm not quite convinced that cretense is really distinct but I did not make field notes of anther colour and size. Whatever the correct name these are nice plants. I was very surprised by the size of these Cretan colchicums since I did not realise colchicums could be that small! :)

Kees Jan
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