We hope you have enjoyed the SRGC Forum. You can make a Paypal donation to the SRGC by clicking the above button

Author Topic: Scilla 2010  (Read 17049 times)

Gunilla

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 467
  • Country: 00
Re: Scilla 2010
« Reply #60 on: May 31, 2010, 12:26:41 PM »
Lovely blue colour, Oleg :).  Scilla litardierei is also the last scilla to flower in my garden.
Gunilla   Ekeby in the south of Sweden

udo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 699
  • Country: de
  • Dirk Schnabel
Re: Scilla 2010
« Reply #61 on: August 27, 2010, 03:46:06 PM »
The first Scilla for this autumn,
Scilla scilloides from China
Lichtenstein/Sachsen, Germany
www.steingartenverein.de

pehe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1033
  • Country: dk
  • Autumn flowering bulbs
Re: Scilla 2010
« Reply #62 on: August 31, 2010, 11:21:12 AM »
Dirk,

Very nice clump of Scilla!

Here are some of my autumn Scillas.

1. Scilla autumnalis and Colchicum montanum
2. Scilla numidica
3. Scilla intermedia
4. Scilla pulchella (in front of Sternbergia colchiciflora)

Poul
Poul Erik Eriksen in Hedensted, Denmark - Zone 6

Oron Peri

  • Middle Eastern Correspondent for the Forum
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1500
  • Country: 00
  • Living in the Galilee Region, min. temp. 5c max 40
    • Seeds of Peace
Re: Scilla 2010
« Reply #63 on: August 31, 2010, 06:10:12 PM »
Here are some of my autumn Scillas.

1. Scilla autumnalis and Colchicum montanum
2. Scilla numidica
3. Scilla intermedia
4. Scilla pulchella (in front of Sternbergia colchiciflora)

Poul

Very nice  Poul, seems like mid Autumn in your garden.

Regarding S. intermedia and S. pulchella, in my opinion they both should be treated as forms of Prospero autumnale [Syn Scilla autumnalis].

Prospero autumnale has a huge distribution that includes all the Mediterranean, N. Africa, Europe and parts of Asia, as such it has many forms and variants.
Only here in Israel i have individuated four stable forms that look different from each other and off course populations on Cyprus and the Greek islands can vary in size, intensity of color, number of inflorescence etc.

One or two forms have been elevated to species level such as Prospero talasii.

Chromosome numbers indicate that what we call the Prospero autumnale complex may well contain a few species and ssp. but the question is should they be divided into separate species if a human eye will not be able to notice the differences?

Any way most of the forms hybridize just by looking at each other and so if you grow a good form i suggest to isolate it in order to have pure forms.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 09:13:26 PM by Oron Peri »
Tivon, in the lower Galilee, north Israel.
200m.

pehe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1033
  • Country: dk
  • Autumn flowering bulbs
Re: Scilla 2010
« Reply #64 on: September 01, 2010, 07:05:17 PM »


Very nice  Poul, seems like mid Autumn in your garden.

Regarding S. intermedia and S. pulchella, in my opinion they both should be treated as forms of Prospero autumnale [Syn Scilla autumnalis].

Prospero autumnale has a huge distribution that includes all the Mediterranean, N. Africa, Europe and parts of Asia, as such it has many forms and variants.
Only here in Israel i have individuated four stable forms that look different from each other and off course populations on Cyprus and the Greek islands can vary in size, intensity of color, number of inflorescence etc.

One or two forms have been elevated to species level such as Prospero talasii.

Chromosome numbers indicate that what we call the Prospero autumnale complex may well contain a few species and ssp. but the question is should they be divided into separate species if a human eye will not be able to notice the differences?

Any way most of the forms hybridize just by looking at each other and so if you grow a good form i suggest to isolate it in order to have pure forms.


Oron, you may be right that pulchella and intermedia should be treated as forms of autumnalis.
I have two forms of what I have been told is Prospero autumnalis:

1 Bought from Paul Christian
2 From Malta

As you see they are very different both in appearance and in size. The Maltese one is 2-3 cm high while the other is about 20 cm. If these really are autumnalis both then I have no problems in calling pulchella and intermedia autumnalis forms too.

But on the other hand, they are more different from each other than many Galanthus species are. Maybee we should limit the Galanthus species to 2 or 3 ....

Poul
Poul Erik Eriksen in Hedensted, Denmark - Zone 6

Oron Peri

  • Middle Eastern Correspondent for the Forum
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1500
  • Country: 00
  • Living in the Galilee Region, min. temp. 5c max 40
    • Seeds of Peace
Re: Scilla 2010
« Reply #65 on: September 01, 2010, 07:43:09 PM »



Oron, you may be right that pulchella and intermedia should be treated as forms of autumnalis.
I have two forms of what I have been told is Prospero autumnalis:

1 Bought from Paul Christian
2 From Malta

As you see they are very different both in appearance and in size. The Maltese one is 2-3 cm high while the other is about 20 cm. If these really are autumnalis both then I have no problems in calling pulchella and intermedia autumnalis forms too.

But on the other hand, they are more different from each other than many Galanthus species are. Maybee we should limit the Galanthus species to 2 or 3 ....

Poul

Poul

I agree that your two forms of autumnale look very different,
Regarding the form you have from Malta, is it originated to one plant found there or is there a whole population that has these characteristics, that makes a big difference.
If there is a population of this form than it could be studied further to decide wether  it should be separated, as it is easy to tell apart from other forms.

But, as i said earlier, in a large population here you can find doesens and dosens of different forms all mixed together.
I grow at least twenty different forms, white, pink, violet, short tall, just name it.
I suppose if i was a commercial grower i could have offered them under twenty different names.

Regarding the Galanthus... :-X as there are too many galantophyls around...
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 08:00:35 PM by Oron Peri »
Tivon, in the lower Galilee, north Israel.
200m.

Armin

  • Prized above rubies
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2531
  • Country: de
  • Confessing Croconut
Re: Scilla 2010
« Reply #66 on: September 01, 2010, 08:05:46 PM »
there is an interesting link: http://www.maltawildplants.com/HYCN/Prospero_autumnale.php#PIC

click on photogallery or scroll down.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 08:25:13 PM by Armin »
Best wishes
Armin

Oron Peri

  • Middle Eastern Correspondent for the Forum
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1500
  • Country: 00
  • Living in the Galilee Region, min. temp. 5c max 40
    • Seeds of Peace
Re: Scilla 2010
« Reply #67 on: September 01, 2010, 08:18:24 PM »
Thanks Armin,
Infact the photos seems similar to the form that Poul grow but there are different forms shown as well.
By the way Stephen Mifsud is an excellent botanist and observer and  made a very good work on Romulea in Malta.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 08:24:42 PM by Oron Peri »
Tivon, in the lower Galilee, north Israel.
200m.

gote

  • still going down the garden path...
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1594
  • A fact is a fact - even if it is an unusual fact
Re: Scilla 2010
« Reply #68 on: September 03, 2010, 12:13:44 PM »
My Scilla scilloides (origin Vladivostok) is the only autumn floering that survives my winters so I am very fond of it
I note that the scapes are more slender than in the previous posting.
Cheers
Göte
Göte Svanholm
Mid-Sweden

pehe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1033
  • Country: dk
  • Autumn flowering bulbs
Re: Scilla 2010
« Reply #69 on: September 24, 2010, 08:58:40 AM »
Flowering today:

1. Scilla lingulata ciliolate (a week ago)
2. The same today
3. Prospero autumnale, Maltese form (formerly Scilla autumnalis) The flower is about 6 mm

Poul
Poul Erik Eriksen in Hedensted, Denmark - Zone 6

Oron Peri

  • Middle Eastern Correspondent for the Forum
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1500
  • Country: 00
  • Living in the Galilee Region, min. temp. 5c max 40
    • Seeds of Peace
Re: Scilla 2010
« Reply #70 on: September 24, 2010, 12:01:54 PM »
Flowering today, Prospero hanburyi.
This is the desert form, and closely related to P. autumnale.
It differs by the much longer pedicals, larger bulb, a fine rosette with more leaves that coil on the ground, finally it blooms earlier dependless on the rain.
Tivon, in the lower Galilee, north Israel.
200m.

 


Scottish Rock Garden Club is a Charity registered with Scottish Charity Regulator (OSCR): SC000942
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal