Tropaeolum

[Martin Baxendale]

I found that T. ciliatum germinated on the warm to cold transition at the end of the year. I wonder if T. speciosum does that or if it as the seed packets lead one to believe it's simply a matter of a cold period.

I've germinated Tropaeolum speciosum seed (from my parents' plants) a couple of times by simply cleaning the seeds of the berry pulp, sowing in high-humus compost and leaving out to freeze in winter. They came up in spring.

My problem in my dry garden is keeping them going until they get big enough to romp away. The seedlings make tiny rhizomes the first year which are very susceptible to drying out. In my parents' equally dry garden, they started with big fat rhizomes brought from Scotland nearly 50 years ago, which were able to get down deep into the moisture-retentive clay (so deep, I can't find them!) which seems to be the secret to keeping it going in dry gardens - it needs to go down deep, but not planted deep to start with - it needs to grow down deep. Problem is getting it to stay around long enough in a dry garden for it to get down deep enough.

[Maggi Young]

Don't worry, Susan, I'll be able to assist these poor deluded chaps with roots from Scotland 

I'm not able to assist with germination info... have never sowed it and watched!!

[Susan]

The tubers go down maybe 3 feet into the clay.  Our property has a band of volcanic soil that is quite fertile and it takes a while to get into the sub soil I think.  That is why it is hard to eradicate.  I have to say that I do like it at this stage when the berries are on the vine they are rather stunning.  I just have to forget what a hoon it is and get out the rake and start pulling it off the trees.

Maggi, maybe we both have a similar sort of dampish climate?

Susan

[Lesley Cox]

Away from the Forum for just a day, I open up this morning to find 127 new postings in my inbox!

I should say that my friend Susan's T. speciosum is as you see above and when I would like to see it, I visit her as I CAN'T GROW IT. I'm one it hates. But then, I have a dry garden. Not for nothing is it called the "Scottish Flame Creeper." On the other hand, T. ciliatum rampages everywhere. I have it outside, on a fence in the first place but now moving wherever it likes. The flowers are pretty, yes; light orange with red veining but small and not so good as to justify the way it relocates. Paul, both T. ciliatum and T. speciosum do have perennial rhizomes, very thin and long and these can travel enormous distances in a season. If your garden is hot, you're not likely to succeed with T. speciosum.

I was given some rhizomes a few years ago by Dave Toole who has it growing in the native bush around his home, where it is a recognized conservation weed. But they didn't like my garden and died almost at once. Unfortunately, in the meantime T. ciliatum had ramped along and taken their place (the rhizomes look identical) so I made the terrible mistake of thinking speciosum was estabalishing nicely but when it bloomed, it was the other.

What makes me really mad though, is that I bought T. ciliatum from a local person who has super plants generally. She had had the seed from Harold McBride, AS T. AZUREUM!!!, and I, at that time not recognizing that the foliage was wrong, bought it in good faith, only to be landed with a subsequent and very real problem.

[Maggi Young]

Yesterday I was typing up my friend John Lupton's weather report for the local area for our local Group newsletter.... this tells me that last year (2007) he recorded 987.9mm of rain in his garden, about 6 miles  away from us. A bit wetter than normal.
I don't think the Trop. wants it too dry and I'm not sure how it does in places where it is really wet, but it loves life in Aberdeenshire, I assure you! 
I think it would be too dry with you, Paul. It doesn't make real tubers, just a huge network of thick white roots, some of which do get fat enough to be almost tubers.... but basically the thing is founded on fat white strings! Trouble is, when it is happy and established, it grows well fron thin white strings, also 

[t00lie]

Quote---"was given some rhizomes a few years ago by Dave Toole who has it growing in the native bush around his home, where it is a recognized conservation weed. But they didn't like my garden and died almost at once."

I wish to point out out i was very very naive back then--i'm a lot wiser now--Thank goodness they died Lesley.

The Tropaeolum used to clothe the shrubs/trees along the edge of our driveway in numerous dense growths ,however i've been successful in eradicating it by the following method.--

A repeated squirt of Roundup (or Touchdown which is a stronger form of glysophate) on the leaves will kill it outright over 2 to 3 seasons.
This is easy to accomplish where the plant is growing up around a hosts trunk however where it is growing through leaves /greenery i gently lift the weed off and place thick sheets of newspapers between the host and Trop and give it a blast.

As an aside i've finally managed to kill a large running clump of Alstromeria ,(which had previously resisted the effects of glysophate --dicamba and one or two other herbicides),by spraying with Amitrole .

Cheers dave.

[Susan]

Dave, I'm sure Amitrole knocks most things back!  My Alstroemeria grows through a whole lot of stuff, so am about to dig out anything I want, then I may have to make it  scorched earth stuff.  Do you think anything would ever grow again? How come I have all these horrible weeds?  gorse, broom, onion weed....  Why can't it be fabulous crocus, corydalis and some of those rarities that I long for.

Maggi, we have an average of 800mm a year  but we do have a few grey damp  days.  Although at present we are in drought conditions, and it does not seem to be having any effect on the Tropaeolum.

Susan

[Michael]

Oh wow! Can i be also a candidate for T. speciosum seeds? Very lovely!
Here we have T. majus everywhere, and i mean literally *everywhere*. It's hard not to find an abandoned terrain who hasn't it!. It's very widespread, but only appears during winter and spring time. When it starts to get hot, the plants disappear. Although it's a very noxious weed, i still like to see their lovely red and yellow flowers. But this one is annual, do not have tubers for the next season.

Note from Maggi : Michael, I will send you some roots later !

[t00lie]

Quote--"then I may have to make it scorched earth stuff.  Do you think anything would ever grow again?"

Amitrole is stated to have a short soil life and treated areas can be sown out 4 weeks after spraying Susan so you should be okay.
In any case i'd suggest not replant straight away to allow any possible weed regrowth to show up.

Certainly i've had no problems with shrubs planted out in areas i've previously treated.

Cheers dave.

[Iturraran]

In my first message ever in this forum I'd say I'd love to receive some fresh seed of this beauty. Our soils are rather heavy, but rain should be no problem (1,500 mm./year).
I'm a SRGC life member for years and work as head garden at Iturraran Botanical Garden, quite a wild but interesting place.

[Ian Y]

Hello and Welcome to the forum Jose - I hope this will be the first of many posts.

We get lots of seed and will happily collect and send you some later in the year we can even send you some roots if you would like.

The tropaeolum likes a moist humus rich soil to get established then if it likes your garden it will thrive. The commonest mistake people make is to plant it close to a hedge or shrub that they want it to climb up. The best thing to do is to plant it into an area well away from the dry zone created by the hedge en-rich the planting hole with organic matter and once it starts to grow it will soon find something to climb up.

[Iturraran]

Ian,

Wow, that's a quick answer !

Thank you SO much!!!. It will be fun to try seeds/roots you might share... I'll take good care to select a humid spot 

[Michael]

I was wondering if the tubers of the tuberous Tropaeolum produce offsets or the only way of propagating them is from seed? And if they do produce offsets, do all species do it?
Thanks

[Maggi Young]

Not all of the tuberous tropaeolum produce offsets.  For instance, Trop. azureum hardly ever does with us, while Trop. tricolorum does quite happily make babies.

[Iturraran]

This fabled Tropaeolum azureum, can it be grown outdoors in the open ground, or is it more like a pot thing?, What sort of growing conditions does it need?. Thanks!