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Author Topic: Candidum or X andrewsii?  (Read 2039 times)

Alex

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Candidum or X andrewsii?
« on: May 27, 2013, 05:51:22 PM »
Hi all,

I've been growing this plant in a pot for about 3 or 4 years now, and it's finally decided to flower. I bought it from Hardy Orchids (i.e. Ratcliffe Orchids) as Cypripedium candidum, and my question is: is it really this or X andrewsii? I don't know how to tell the difference, and can't find anything online.

Cheers for any help,

Alex

John Aipassa

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Re: Candidum or X andrewsii?
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2013, 10:54:43 PM »
Alex, It is hard to say when I look at your photo. My first guess would be X andrewsii, but I am not sure. Since X andrewsii has parviflorum as a parent, all my X andrewsii start with a yellow pouch/lip (from parviflorum) which will turn white (from candidum) after a week or so. Did your plant started this way too? Than maybe it is indeed an X andrewsii. My candidum are not flowering size, but I believe candidum start with a white pouch.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 11:04:05 PM by John Aipassa »
John Aipassa, Aalten, The Netherlands
z7, sandy soil, maritime climate


"In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous." - Aristotle

Alex

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Re: Candidum or X andrewsii?
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2013, 11:21:33 PM »
Hi John,

Many thanks for this. The pouch was never yellow, although it was a rather creamier colour before the flower opened, what I would call ivory maybe. It has been white ever since the flower has fully opened. I know this is a difficult question, so any help appreciated!

Cheers,

Alex

K Andrzejewski

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Re: Candidum or X andrewsii?
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2013, 11:29:13 PM »
this is a bit sad, but you can compare the size:

Hakone

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Re: Candidum or X andrewsii?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2013, 05:34:25 AM »
Hi Alex,

Please create a photo from the side and habitus .


Regards
EDIT by Forum Moderator :   Apologies -some earlier photos posted by Hakone have been removed because  of a security issue with their remote hosting site.

John Aipassa

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Re: Candidum or X andrewsii?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2013, 06:58:32 AM »
The yellow is more present in some than in others when it comes to my X andrewsii, but the more lighter coloured ones are at least buttery yellow not ivory, so it could be candidum after all. The stature should be quite small though.

If it is a candidum make sure to give it quite a big deal of full sun during the day. The video shown by Kristof also shows the amount of sun it gets. But please take note that the plants grow in the grass so its microclimate (for the roots as well as the plant) is a bit cooler and more moist than grown in full sun without any other plants nearby. So don't bake them.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 07:08:04 AM by John Aipassa »
John Aipassa, Aalten, The Netherlands
z7, sandy soil, maritime climate


"In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous." - Aristotle

Hakone

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Re: Candidum or X andrewsii?
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2013, 07:21:18 AM »
Characteristic of cypripedium candidum :

-   bract (cover sheet ) always overtopping the flower.

-   the inflorescence usually appears before the full development of the leaves, as cypripedium tibeticum.

Close up of cypripedium Hank Small




EDIT by Forum Moderator :   Apologies -some earlier photos posted by Hakone have been removed because  of a security issue with their remote hosting site.

John Aipassa

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Re: Candidum or X andrewsii?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2013, 08:18:00 AM »
John Aipassa, Aalten, The Netherlands
z7, sandy soil, maritime climate


"In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous." - Aristotle

K Andrzejewski

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Re: Candidum or X andrewsii?
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2013, 02:04:45 PM »
Alex, I think that your Cypripedium is "Sebastian"

John Aipassa

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Re: Candidum or X andrewsii?
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2013, 04:05:19 PM »
Alex,

I thought I share a photo of one of my X andrewsii flowering now. It is on of the least coloured ones, but it resembles your plant. Maybe you will not get rid of your confusion, but you'll get an idea how an X andrewsii can look like. The pouch is just turning to white.

I have other (more colourful) forms than the one showed, some even doesn't quite resemble your's. Being an hybrid comes with differences in each plant, unless it is cloned of course.

One other thing. X andrewsii can have the terrible habit of flopping (not all of them, but many do). I have to give some aid to keep the stems straight, or it will just bend over. 
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 04:09:47 PM by John Aipassa »
John Aipassa, Aalten, The Netherlands
z7, sandy soil, maritime climate


"In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous." - Aristotle

Alex

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Re: Candidum or X andrewsii?
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2013, 09:17:57 AM »
Thank you so much everybody for all your help.

Hakone, I will try to get another photo in the next day or two, but the plant is quite tall - probably 25-30cm. It is taller than my parviflorum for sure. The plant doesn't look so much like the images that Kristof posted a link to, and to others I've seen growing in exposed situations, but I was putting that down partly to lush conditions and lack of light........not so sure now.

The efloras description John posted a link to suggests that a diagnostic feature is an acute angled apex to the pouch versus a more oblique angle in parviflorum (and hybrids presumably?). But mine seems to be intermediate between the two, as do several real candidums in Google images to be fair!

So, unfortunately, it seems likely to me that it's just an X andrewsii, which is a bummer since I paid good money for candidum and have patiently grown it on for some years.

The list of nurseries I now buy Cyps from is very small indeed, if you are interested in more unusual spp. rather than hybrids problems with poor quality and naming are rife.

Cheers,

Alex

John Aipassa

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Re: Candidum or X andrewsii?
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2013, 02:37:04 PM »
I can understand your frustration Alex.

I have got my candidum from this source: http://www.orchideenlabor.de

Maybe he can help you get true candidum for a reasonable price. Bought five two year old seedlings (one year out of flask growing in normal medium) last fall and got seven, which are all growing in the garden now and doing fine. Mr. Walter Bongers is a reputable source (good quality plants) selling own lab grown seedlings from flask to mature plants, but does only wholesale, but if a minimum of five seedlings or plants is not a problem, than ordering from him is easy. On his website he only sells candidum seedlings just out of flask, but I know he has some seedlings of candidum for sale grown for one or two years out of flask, you just have to ask him. Prices for his seedlings are very reasonable.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 02:39:32 PM by John Aipassa »
John Aipassa, Aalten, The Netherlands
z7, sandy soil, maritime climate


"In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous." - Aristotle

Alex

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Re: Candidum or X andrewsii?
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2013, 10:48:40 PM »
Thanks John, I'll look into this....probably a bit late for this year so hopefully he still has them next year.

Cheers,

Alex

 


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