Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Robin Callens on April 11, 2009, 08:00:15 PM

Title: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Robin Callens on April 11, 2009, 08:00:15 PM
Hi all,

I want to show you some pictures of Arisaemas which are flowering now and are reliable in our garden.
They dont rot and grow bigger every year.

1) A. nepenthoides
2) A. serratum x kishidae (a hybrid serratum motherplant, kishidae pollen)
3) A. lobatum
4) A. griffithii

Robin
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Paul T on April 11, 2009, 10:14:23 PM
Robin,

Isn't the griffithii a stunner!!!!!  The others aren't bad either.  ;)
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Robert G on April 13, 2009, 03:10:17 AM
Robin,

All beautiful and all not hardy for me, although I try in pots and will offer the odd one to nature every winter. Thank you for showing us the pictures.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: kiwi on April 13, 2009, 11:26:13 PM
Hi Robin, beautiful photos thank you. I have just about finished re-potting my collection, to see yours will keep me going through our Autumn / winter. Keep them coming!
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on April 14, 2009, 12:37:48 PM
Robin very good to see.

Mine are only just through the soil in the garden
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Greenmanplants on April 14, 2009, 02:24:23 PM
I find they are much hardier in the garden planted deep than risking them in pots.

I have lost a lot more in pots over each of the various mild winters than over several years in the garden.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: gote on April 14, 2009, 03:04:39 PM
Robin,
really good pictures - and very tempting.

John
Does your ground freeze solid in the winter? (mine does unsually)  >:(
Most of the Arisaemas I have tried have died in the winter. :(

Göte
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Regelian on April 14, 2009, 04:11:36 PM
My fist Arisaema of the year, from seed, A. amurense
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: gote on April 14, 2009, 06:59:40 PM
Jamie,
Do you mean A. amurense??
Very nice colour. A. amurense grows very well in my place (the only Arisaema that does  :( )
but I have only the white/green form. This is avery nice one.
Göte
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: johnw on April 14, 2009, 07:32:43 PM
Göte

Have you tried some of the better coloured A. triphyllums?

The ground here can freeze solid on ocassion and very deeply. Some here have luck with A. flava but I must have had a form from the western part of its range as they have persistently died. Some have had luck here with A. amurense (white/green form and nothing like Jamie's beauty) sikokianum, A. tortuosum, A. dracontium and A. yamatense v sugimotoi. Aside from sikokianum a very disappointing group. I have managed to kill most of the other ones I’ve tried  - both in the ground and in pots and have been getting even better at it lately.

johnw
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Robin Callens on April 14, 2009, 08:24:56 PM
John and Göte,

I experienced the same as you John, I think Arisaemas like stable conditions (low fluctuations of temperature and humidity) which are easier to achieve in the garden than in pots.

We are in zone 8, solid freezing of the ground doesn't happen often in our winter. I also put a layer of several inches of pine needles on the Arisaema beds to protect them.

Robin
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Regelian on April 14, 2009, 08:39:20 PM
Göte,

thanks for catching that!  Typing too fast  :P, or something.

I have had luck with A. candidissimum and what I beleive is A. ciliatum.  Again, I grew these from seed
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: johnw on April 14, 2009, 10:54:07 PM
John
Does your ground freeze solid in the winter? (mine does unsually)  >:(
Most of the Arisaemas I have tried have died in the winter. :(

Göte

Göte  - The ground does not freeze every year but there have certainly been many winters where it has frozen down at least 60 cm and maybe deeper.  The worst damage is when the soil is dry and frozen,\. 1991 was bad and one winter in the late 1970's or early 1980's was very cold, very dry and snowless and we felt as if we were in Outer Mongolia.  With very cool Springs the frost can take a very long time to dissipate.

johnw

Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 14, 2009, 11:04:34 PM
That's a nice ciliatum. Mine is browner.

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Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Greenmanplants on April 15, 2009, 02:51:57 AM
Hi Gote,

We are usually quite mild, enough to freeze only a few cm.

This year we had -10C so I wait to see old friends emerge where planted in the ground.

I already know this does a lot of damage in pots, where as you see in these images, the centre of a pot full of A.amurense is ok but all the perimeter is lost.
I just took these today so it is hard to see as they are not yet in leaf.
Clearly I'm out of practice posting images on here...it's been a while!
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Regelian on April 15, 2009, 08:27:41 AM
Lesley,

I rather like yours.  Very smart-looking with the brown through out. 

Now I know I did have it correctly IDed.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: gote on April 15, 2009, 08:42:19 AM
Have you tried some of the better coloured A. triphyllums?
No I have not. In my part of the world Arisaemas are not easy to get.
I have had some survive mild winters and be whiped out in cold winters.
The triphyllum clones I have tried have not been reliably hardy.
Last summer I had serratum, candidissimum, maximowiczii and flavum but the last winters have been mild.
It is far too early to see which have survived this year. Candidissimum usually emerges in June.   
Göte
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: gote on April 15, 2009, 08:45:36 AM
Thank you all for your info.
I will try to remember posting the results from this winter which was the coldest since 2005 or perhaps earlier.
I will not know for sure until late June. Candidissimum emerges around midsummer here.
Göte
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: David Nicholson on April 15, 2009, 09:44:05 AM
Maggi, we seem to have two of these threads?

Edit by Maggi:  So we do....I thought I fixed this the other day.... too much chocolate I expect.......I have merged the two threads into the  Bulbs General Section
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 15, 2009, 10:28:04 PM
Lesley,

I rather like yours.  Very smart-looking with the brown through out. 

Now I know I did have it correctly IDed.

Jamie I grew mine from seed, as A. consanguineum! It may be ciliatum var liubiense. Would you like a few seeds? I picked the ripe head just yesterday. If so, send me your postal address privately.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: kiwi on April 16, 2009, 10:48:27 AM
A few more Arisaema ciliatum var liubaense.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Regelian on April 16, 2009, 07:19:46 PM
Beautiful, Doug, the lighting is perfect.

did you grow these from seed?
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: kiwi on April 16, 2009, 10:03:55 PM
No I was lucky to be given these bulbs as off sets, but most of my collection is from seed from the AEG and other collectors here in New Zealand. If you have had luck with A. candidissimum, A. fargesii and A. Franchetianum are two beauties that should be hardy enough for your conditions.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Eric Locke on April 16, 2009, 10:19:30 PM
After slowly building up a small colony of A Sikokianum all but one seems to have been lost this winter.                   I wonder if a similar experience has been found by others.  :'( :'(

Eric
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 16, 2009, 10:39:24 PM
Some seed on the way Jamie. :)
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Regelian on April 17, 2009, 08:46:47 AM
Doug,

I've been looking for any species seed, as I find there are always a few extra hardy and adapatable kids in there.  Cologne is a mild climate, much like Scottland and England, but we do get the occaisional hard Winter, like this last one. -15°C!  I lost quite a few delicate perennials, but the established plants seemed to actually benefit. 

Lesley,

thanks!

It is currently pouring down outside, which was much needed.  Of course, Arisaemas have their own brollies! ;D ;D
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on April 17, 2009, 01:14:31 PM
a couple of arisaema in flower on pots

Arisaema sikkokianum
Arisaema nepenthoides
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: kiwi on April 18, 2009, 11:52:29 PM
Hi Jamie, try looking up the AEG on line, Arisaema Enthusist Group. The seed list has gone out earlier in the year but It still could be open for orders?
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Robin Callens on April 21, 2009, 08:42:41 PM
Hi all,

Here are some more pics of easy Arisaemas in the garden flowering now:

1) A. serratum
2) A. amurense
3) A. ringens (green flower)

And two not so easy Arisaemas in the garden:

4) A. sikokianum
5) A. engleri

Robin
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on April 22, 2009, 09:12:08 AM
Robin very nice plants and good to see.I just checked and my ringens is just emerging and is only an inch high. Strange because I thought you would be much colder than me and my plants would be earlier than yours.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Robin Callens on April 30, 2009, 09:46:43 PM
Hi all,

Most species of the section Arisaema (the big three leaved Arisaemas) are easy to grow in the garden.
They seem to prefer cool and rather moist conditions.

1) A. asperatum
2) A. griffithii dark form emerging
3) A. griffithii dark form (a few days later)
4) A. propinquum
5) A. utile
6) A. dilatatum

Robin

Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Regelian on April 30, 2009, 10:53:39 PM
Robin, great stuff!

The dark clone of A. griffithii is wonderful.  Will seed be available? :D :D :P
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Robert G on May 01, 2009, 12:57:43 AM
Robin,

Wonderful collection!!
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Paul T on May 01, 2009, 10:11:35 AM
Robin,

That dark form of griffithii is unbelievable (but in a good way!  ;)).  So dark!!  Wow!  :o
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on May 02, 2009, 10:07:30 PM
Robin, great stuff!

The dark clone of A. griffithii is wonderful.  Will seed be available? :D :D :P

An amazing plant. It looks so sinister.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on May 05, 2009, 07:38:10 AM
With me only Arisaema amurense - the earliest one here - started
Janis
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Robin Callens on May 06, 2009, 09:01:05 PM
Hi all,

More easy growing species of the section Arisaema:

1) A. galeatum
2) A. elephas
3) A. wilsonii
4) A. asperatum dark flower
5) A. propinquum (seedling srgc labeled as A. griffithii var. pradhanii)

Robin
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Paul T on May 07, 2009, 05:24:21 AM
I've only ever heard of half of those, Robin.   :o  Love that elephas!  Thanks for sharing the pics.  8)
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: gote on May 07, 2009, 02:21:27 PM
Hi all,

Most species of the section Arisaema (the big three leaved Arisaemas) are easy to grow in the garden.

In Belgium perhaps. Most species die in the winter in my place    :'( and I am sure it is due to cold.
I nearly gave up on all but amurense but for those who like me live in a cold climate I can report that
serratum and maximowiczii survived this winter too.  :)
It is still far from flowering time but they are up and healthy-looking.
Göte
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Robin Callens on May 08, 2009, 09:09:42 PM
Göte,

Have you ever tried to protect the tubers from heavy frost by a thick layer of pine needles or leafs. I always do that but temperatures go seldom below -10° C in our garden.

Robin
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Robin Callens on May 08, 2009, 09:17:23 PM

The dark clone of A. griffithii is wonderful.  Will seed be available?


This dark clone hasn't set seed so far. I hope it does this year.

Robin
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: gote on May 09, 2009, 09:49:14 AM
Göte,

Have you ever tried to protect the tubers from heavy frost by a thick layer of pine needles or leafs. I always do that but temperatures go seldom below -10° C in our garden.

Robin
I am afraid that I have never been able to protect anything this way. I have stopped trying to protect because I A: it did not work B: I would have too much work doing it.
I follow Tony Avent: I"I regard all plants as hardy until i have killed them three times"  ;D
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Robin Callens on May 22, 2009, 10:08:26 PM
Hi all,

A. erubescens often confused with A. consanguineum. A. erubescens has a pinkish flower emerging before the leaf unfolds and a smaller number of narrow leaflets without the typical long threads of consanguineum.

A. dahaiense is probably the largest Arisaema in my garden up to 1.50 m tall and 1.50 m wide. Easy from seed. Has a spadix appendage more than 1 m long.


1)A. erubescens
2)A. erubescens
3)A. speciosum
4)A. dahaiense (motherplant flowers)
5)A. dahaiense (seedlings 2004 leafs )
6)A. dahaiense (seedling 2004 flower)
7)A. dahaiense (motherplant leaf)

Robin
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Regelian on May 22, 2009, 10:32:14 PM
Beautiful stuff, Robin,

I had an unknown Arisaema start to open today and now I believe it is A. speciosum.  I bought it as A. candidissimum, but the tuber was all wrong (cylindrical and annulated).  I'll send a photo when it is fully open for confirmation. 
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Paul T on May 22, 2009, 11:24:58 PM
Wow Robin!  Never seen the dahaiense before.  Very nice flower and leaf by the look of it.  Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Regelian on May 24, 2009, 03:27:29 PM
Robin,

this is what just bloomed from an incorrectly IDed tuber.  I would call it A. speciosum.  Sound right?
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Paul T on May 25, 2009, 11:32:31 AM
Jamie,

What is the leaf like?  I find that speciosum is a very distinctive leaf.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Regelian on May 25, 2009, 12:15:48 PM
Paul,

here is the leaf.  Other than being large, it seemed to fit species of this section.  But then, Arisaemas are a new passion for me.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Paul T on May 25, 2009, 12:18:38 PM
Jamie,

That looks like what I have as speciosum anyway (assuming it is correct).  Very distinctive leaf, unlike anything else I grow in the Arisaema range, although I by no means grow all of them.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Robin Callens on May 25, 2009, 09:48:53 PM
Jamie,

It is definitely A. speciosum. Arisaema galeatum and dahaiense have also cylindrical tubers and similar leaves but very different flowers.

Robin
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Regelian on May 25, 2009, 09:55:27 PM
Thanks Robin,

always nice to have things confirmed. 8)
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: annew on May 26, 2009, 07:09:45 PM
Any ideas about this species? I received it as A. fraternum, but it doesn't seem to be that species. The whole plant is about 30cm, but they might grow bigger if I planted them out. The nearest I can get is A ciliatum var liubaense.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on May 26, 2009, 11:12:57 PM
It's certainly very like A. ciliatum. I'm not sure whether mine are that or c. var liubiense and I don't know what the difference is any way. I received mine as seed, as consanguineum. I think ciliatum is the most elegant thing in my garden. Planted out they grow to about 80cms for me but could be more in a damper place.

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Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: annew on May 27, 2009, 09:15:14 AM
Does look the same, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Diane Clement on June 03, 2009, 09:47:50 PM
My greenhouse seems to be filling up with Arisaemas at the moment. 

Arisaema nepenthoides (seed raised, showing variation in the pot here)
Arisaema engleri (syn A sikokianum henryanum)
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on June 04, 2009, 01:11:46 AM
These are very nice Diane. Nepenthoides is one of my favourites and the only one, except consanguineum, that regularly sets seed.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Eric Locke on June 11, 2009, 10:37:42 PM

My first flowering of Arisaema Franchetianum.

Eric
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on June 12, 2009, 01:48:48 AM
Looks as if you've buried a heron up to his neck ;D
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Eric Locke on June 12, 2009, 08:14:14 PM
Lesley - This certainly is an unusuall Arisaema with an amazing leaf too. :o


Eric
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: olegKon on June 24, 2009, 11:50:39 AM
Two flowering arisaemas at the moment
1. Arisaema costatum
2. Arisaema jingdongense
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Gunilla on June 24, 2009, 01:33:03 PM
Eric, I really like your A. franchetianum, very nice and different  8).

Oleg, lovely pictures.   Arisaema costatum sure have a long and twisted tongue  :o 
Is that an Eucomis with dark leaves in the background on your second picture?

Flowering in my garden now.

Arisaema ciliatum var liubaense (not sure about the var. liubaense part)
Arisaema triphyllum
Arisaema nepenthoides
Arisaema consanguineum slowly crawling out
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: olegKon on June 24, 2009, 04:46:15 PM
Gunilla, your plants are wonderful at any stage of their development. It's a Eucomis on the background: "Sparcling Burgundy" (not very robust this year.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Johan Nilson on June 24, 2009, 09:22:48 PM
Thank you Robin for a great thread. 

Great pictures everybody and complements to all of you who manage to grow them so well.

Robin, your A, dahaiense looks fantastic.  'The Moder plant', are they all individual plants or are they bulking up like that? does it set seed for you?


I have just return from a trip to north east Sikkim in India where I was able to get some pictures of Arisaemas growing in the wild.


A. speciosum
A. speciosum
A. utile
A. utile
A. propinquum
A. propinquum
A. propinquum
A. nepenthoides
A. nepenthoides (dubbel)
A. nepenthoides (dubbel)
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on June 24, 2009, 09:28:19 PM
Hello, Johan! Good to see these photos... thanks for sharing them with us.  8)
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Johan Nilson on June 24, 2009, 09:56:39 PM
Hi Maggi,

Thanks!

Here is some moore:

1 A. jaquemonthii
2 A. jaquemonthii
3 A. concinnum
4 A. griffithii (clump)
5 A. griffithii (big)
6 A. consanguineum
7 A. elephas
8 A. elephas (clump)
9 A. elephas (clump)
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Gunilla on June 24, 2009, 10:00:03 PM
Wonderful photos, Johan :)
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on June 24, 2009, 10:38:23 PM
What a treat to see them in the wild They look very sinister in such a setting and on what seemed to be a dull, dark day. ???
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: WimB on June 25, 2009, 10:02:05 AM
Very nice pictures of very nice plants, Johan. Thanks for showing them.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: David Shaw on June 25, 2009, 07:53:33 PM
They look so much better in the wild, don't they? Then, I suppose most plants do.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: David Shaw on June 25, 2009, 08:00:53 PM
I have this plant as Arisaema franchetianum but the inflorescence is nothing like the real thing. Can any of the Arisaema experts suggest what it might be - a form of candidissimum, perhaps?
The height to the top of the inflorescence is 26cm and this opened before the leaf. The petiole originates from the tuber and the leaf itself is 15cm long.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Paul T on June 25, 2009, 09:13:26 PM
David,

I'd be thinking candidissimum form or hybrid. Very dark flower for straight species, but if white forms can exist then dark forms likely can as well.

Johan,

Stunning pics.  The griffithii is just amazing.  A species I very much want to grow and flower, as I love every pic I have seen of it.  The flowers just look so overdone!  ;D  Thanks for the pics.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on June 25, 2009, 10:42:36 PM
Certainly no expert David, But I'd say a form of candidissimum, and a very good one with deep colour and a nice, wide open spathe. The foliage looks right too.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on June 25, 2009, 10:44:07 PM
Funny, I thought the second pic was actually a different species!! ???
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Afloden on June 26, 2009, 12:13:32 AM
David: The plant is A. lichiangense, a close relative of candidissimum and fargesii.

 Johan, Did you see any Polygonatum in Sikkim?

 Aaron Floden
 Knoxville, TN
 UT Herbarium
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: David Shaw on June 26, 2009, 10:10:31 AM
Thank you, Aaron, I can go along with that name. The description seems to match the plant.
Lesley, the two photographs were taken at different times with the sun in different postions. After I downloaded the first set of pictures I did not like the one of the whole plant so went back out to take another - the wonders of digital cameras. I would say that the darker colouring of the inflorescence picture is more true than in the other.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Robin Callens on June 26, 2009, 11:55:35 AM
Hi all,

These are all the species of the section franchetiana:
They all have saucer-shaped reddish tubers with a lot of offsets.

1) A. fargesii
2) A. fargesii
3) A. franchetianum
4) A. candidissimum
5) A. lichiangense
6) A. candiddisimum x lichiangense?

Robin
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Paul T on June 26, 2009, 12:12:10 PM
Great to see the comparisons, Robin.  Thanks. 8)
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Robin Callens on June 26, 2009, 01:02:38 PM

Robin, your A, dahaiense looks fantastic.  'The Moder plant', are they all individual plants or are they bulking up like that? does it set seed for you?


Johan,

Arisaemas are my favorite plants and seeing them in the wild is one of my biggest dreams. I hope to forfill this dream in the near future.
In the mean time i enjoy them in the garden. I would love to see some more pictures of your trip to Sikkim.

A. dahaiense bulks up and sets seed.

Robin
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: David Shaw on June 26, 2009, 08:33:04 PM
This is a useful selection of pictures of the group, Robin, thank you.
Are they all growing in your garden?
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Robin Callens on June 27, 2009, 09:34:40 AM
This is a useful selection of pictures of the group, Robin, thank you.
Are they all growing in your garden?


David,

They are all growing in my garden along many other species.

Robin
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: johnw on June 27, 2009, 04:11:11 PM
I can't recall this one having bloomed before. It came from Vera Peck as ACE#1570 but that number refers to an Androsace.  Received 41 seeds and sown on 30 November 2001 so it should be called ex ACE#1570.   Any ideas on the species of this Arisaema? Seems quite close to another Arisaema in bloom here. Quite a long tail on both.

johnw
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: johnw on June 27, 2009, 05:27:48 PM
And this one was received as seed of consanguineum from the HPS. ???

johnw
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Robin Callens on June 27, 2009, 05:33:51 PM
John,

I think both species are A. ciliatum because I believe i see ciliate mouth margins on the pictures.

Robin
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: johnw on June 27, 2009, 06:47:59 PM
Thanks Robin. I will check their mouthes more closely.

PS - Robin  - I checked and indeed your keen eye has caught the ciliate margins.


johnw
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Johan Nilson on July 01, 2009, 08:40:04 PM
Thanks for all great comments!

I'm really glad that I was able to do this trip to Sikkim and and of course I took tons of pictures. lucky for me some turn out alright! 

It was fantastic to See plants that I have only seen in pictures before, for real in the wild. You see a lot of things you wouldn't have expected. for example Arisaemas covering the forest grounds. We manage to spot 12 species of Arisaema with a great range of variation. 

I was constantly walking around with a smile on my face!

Robin,
I can very much recommend you to try Sikkim if you want to see Ariseamas.


Afloden,
We spotted a couple of Polygonatums and some closely related plants. I'm not really sure about with species, but I think we saw species whit in  Polygonatum, Smilacina, Streptopus and Disporum. I will try to get some of the pictures posted.
 
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Johan Nilson on July 01, 2009, 09:03:39 PM
Here is some more pictures from the trip.

I would be very glad forf help with names!
1 & 2, vy over the forest grounds.

3 & 4, Arisaema sp? differs very much both from A. griffithii & A. propinquum,  but maybe just a part of the big variation. very long thread always reaching the ground.

5 & 6, Arisaema 'monster'?


7 & 8, Arisaema sp.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on July 01, 2009, 10:04:58 PM
What a wonderful collection Johan and what a thrill to see them in their native haunts. I like the "monster." (pic 3648) with its wide, grinning mouth and a wink of the eye. Looks like he's having a real joke with you. ;D
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Paul T on July 01, 2009, 11:38:05 PM
John,

Great to see them in situ.  Thanks.  I love the monster and that last species.  Both are very striking. 8)
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: johanneshoeller on July 02, 2009, 04:16:27 PM
Unknown Arisaema ??? (with leaves, the flowers which you cannot see are under the leaves, 30-40 cm tall)
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Johan Nilson on July 05, 2009, 09:05:59 PM
Johan, Did you see any Polygonatum in Sikkim?


Aaron,

Here is some of the Polygonatums we came across

1, Polygonatum hookerii
2, Polygonatum hookerii white form
3, Polygonatum cirrhifolium
4, Polygonatum sp.
5, Polygonatym sp.
6, Streptopus simplex
7, Streptopus simplex
8, Smilacina sp.(the plants we came across where not taller then 15 cm)
9, Smilacina oleracea

I will be glad for  help with names
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Paul T on July 06, 2009, 12:39:22 AM
Wow, Johan.  All very nice.  8)
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Johan Nilson on July 12, 2009, 07:40:01 PM
Arisaema galeatum and Arisaema tourtosum were both growing at lower elevations at around 2000 m sometimes together with
A. speciosum. The other species that I have shown here were all found between 3000 - 4000 meters. A. propinquum was the one we came across at the highest altitudes.

The foliage of the Arisaemas is always very interesting and we got to see some very nice leaf forms.

1 A. galeatum
2 A. tourtosum
3-5 different leaf forms
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Paul T on July 12, 2009, 11:25:44 PM
Johan,

Numbers 3 and 4 are very unusual.  The dark leaf in particular in amazing.  Have seen silver centres to leaves before, but not dark striped like your #4.  Fascinating.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: johnw on July 13, 2009, 06:00:01 PM
I didn't realize Arisaema ringens leaves got so huge. Visiting a friend's garden this morning we measured the leaves at 35" (90 cm) across) tip to tip.  Is this unusual or just the incredibly moist and cloudy weather we've been having?

johnw
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Paul T on July 13, 2009, 11:45:32 PM
John,

A friend reported that they had a leaf on Arisaema candidissima over 4 feet wide.  His obviously get more water than they do here in my garden.  ;D
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: johnw on July 14, 2009, 01:43:09 AM
John,

A friend reported that they had a leaf on Arisaema candidissima over 4 feet wide.  His obviously get more water than they do here in my garden.  ;D

Good grief.  :o

johnw
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: galahad on November 05, 2009, 07:08:42 AM
A question for you Arisaema gurus out there.  Does A. taiwanensis flower at the same aspect each year i.e. with the flower facing the same direction each year? 
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Paul T on November 05, 2009, 11:11:05 AM
I've wondered the same thing myself.  Not that particular species, but for the Arisaema in general.  A. taiwanense is just opening here at the moment.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: galahad on November 05, 2009, 07:18:08 PM
I am wondering if I lift and rotate whether that will make a difference
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on November 05, 2009, 07:34:33 PM
Mine isn't up yet so I can't say but my AA. sikokianum and candidissimum DO flower facing the same way each year. It annoys me because candidissimum faces a fence and I can't get on the other side of it to see the flowers properly, I only see the backs. I did lift some and turn them a couple of years ago but they still flower the same way. It's not towards the sun, both species flower with their backs to the sun.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: galahad on November 05, 2009, 07:40:57 PM
Thanks for that Lesley.  It is really annoying.  Maybe the flowers just grow facing North (mine are north facing) like little phytocompasses ;D
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: WimB on November 07, 2009, 02:02:52 PM
Thanks for that Lesley.  It is really annoying.  Maybe the flowers just grow facing North (mine are north facing) like little phytocompasses ;D

I think those flowers are just shy  ;) , they always seem to flower away from the path or the place where you have the clearest view.
I'm certain they don't turn to the north, I once grew some A. sikokianums against a north facing wall and they all flowered with their faces to the wall, so they were south-facing...
Maybe they turn their faces to the darkest spot??
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on November 07, 2009, 02:47:29 PM
May I draw your attention to some photos from Paul T.  and comments by Rogan, here:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=950.msg119088#msg119088    ? 8)
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: galahad on November 07, 2009, 05:38:54 PM
Aha!  Thanks, Maggi.  That makes sense.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on November 07, 2009, 05:50:00 PM
Yes, Ross, it made sense to me too.... Paul's photo showed it to a treat.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: galahad on December 12, 2009, 05:04:44 AM
This has sprung up in my A. flavum spot which it definitely is not.  Can anyone identify?
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Regelian on December 12, 2009, 06:30:46 PM
I'm certainly no expert, but it looks like a green form of A. erubescens.

Jamie
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on December 12, 2009, 08:09:02 PM
Is (or is not) A. erubescens close to or even synonymous with A. consanguineum? I've read that it is then again, read of them as separate species. Any plant I've seen as erubescens looks exactly like consanguineum, including the one above.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Regelian on December 12, 2009, 10:21:35 PM
Lesley,

are you confusing A. erubescens with A. consanguineum and A. ciliatum?  The last two are indeed very similar and easily confused, unless you look carefully, with both having dorsal thread-like appendages, while A. erubescens doesn't seem to.  There was a time when A. consanguineum and A. erubescens were considered the same species, until the clear difference in the leaves and flowers was well documented.  The former  has attenuated leaf tips which hang like threads and the latter is typically with a pinky-green flower. The Gusman book seperates all three into species with sup-species for A. consanguineum and A. ciliatum. One can see the very close relationship, which brings one back to 'what is a species'.  The flower galahad pictured is untypical in any case.  It may well be a hybrid.  Hmm, with A. flavum?  Now that would be interesting!

At this time, I have only immature plants of all of these species coming along for comparison.  Some of the finer points of specie identification are still pretty unclear to me.  As you may have guessed, I'm as confused as anyone! :-\.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: galahad on December 12, 2009, 10:47:41 PM
Hmm..can of worms?  I have 2nd year seedlings of A. erubescens coming along (assuming the seed is correctly A. erubescens)

Whatever it is I like it.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on December 12, 2009, 10:58:39 PM
Jamie, I am frequently, if not continuously, confused so you could well be right. I've certainly read that consanguineum and erubescens are synonymous and the plants I've raised under both names suggests that is so but of course the erubescens may have been wrongly named anyway, by someone as confused as I am. :) But I believe cliatum to be quite distinct and unlike either of the others. The leaves are smaller overall with fewer leaflets and the plants are shorter by about 20 cms in my garden. And most of all, ciliatum is so beautifuly pin-striped like finest and most elegant suiting material. I think it's my most favourite of all, even including candidissimum.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: WimB on December 13, 2009, 08:25:14 AM
Jamie, I am frequently, if not continuously, confused so you could well be right. I've certainly read that consanguineum and erubescens are synonymous and the plants I've raised under both names suggests that is so but of course the erubescens may have been wrongly named anyway, by someone as confused as I am. :) But I believe cliatum to be quite distinct and unlike either of the others. The leaves are smaller overall with fewer leaflets and the plants are shorter by about 20 cms in my garden. And most of all, ciliatum is so beautifuly pin-striped like finest and most elegant suiting material. I think it's my most favourite of all, even including candidissimum.

Yesterday I went to a lecture of Guy Gusman and he spoke briefly about the difference between A. consanguineum and A. erubescens.
Until some years ago most botanists considered them the same species but they are distinct. The first difference is their distribution in the wild. A. erubescens does only grow in Nepal while A. consanguineum has a much greater distribution.
Other differences are that the leaflets lack the long threads which are present in A. consanguineum, the fruiting peduncle is erect while A.consanguineum has a nodding fruiting peduncle and the flower of A. erubescens emerges well before the leaves while the flowers of A. consanguineum emerge while the leaf unfolds
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Paul T on December 13, 2009, 11:22:19 AM
Worth noting for the Arisaema-philes that Bill in NZ posted a few rather beautiful Arisaema pics in the current Southern Hemisphere flowering now topic (December 09).

He starts with Arisaema candidissimum here ==>http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4598.msg125359#msg125359
and then continues on the next page with ringens, fargesii and franchetianum.  I thought it was worthwhile letting people who are monitoring this topic know, so they can go and have a look.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Regelian on December 13, 2009, 11:40:06 AM
Thanks, Paul,

I would have missed these!
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Paul T on December 13, 2009, 11:59:06 AM
Happy to help.  8)
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Regelian on December 13, 2009, 01:18:23 PM
Wim,

what a treat that lecture must have been.  I wish I had know, it would have been worth the trip (assuming I had time free, of course!)  My Nederlands is a bit rusty, but I could certainly have caught most of it! ??? ::)
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: WimB on December 13, 2009, 01:54:42 PM
Wim,

what a treat that lecture must have been.  I wish I had know, it would have been worth the trip (assuming I had time free, of course!)  My Nederlands is a bit rusty, but I could certainly have caught most of it! ??? ::)

It was really interesting to hear "the Arisaema-master" himself speaking about the plants he fell in love with. His wife was there too and they are really warm people who love to share their knowledge. His lecture was in Walloon Brabant so it was in French.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on December 13, 2009, 03:15:26 PM
Wim,

what a treat that lecture must have been.  I wish I had know, it would have been worth the trip (assuming I had time free, of course!)  My Nederlands is a bit rusty, but I could certainly have caught most of it! ??? ::)

It was really interesting to hear "the Arisaema-master" himself speaking about the plants he fell in love with. His wife was there too and they are really warm people who love to share their knowledge. His lecture was in Walloon Brabant so it was in French.


 Both Guy and Liliane Gusman are most charming ..... and give a great Talk in English, too!!  8) :)
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on December 13, 2009, 09:59:36 PM
Jamie, and others too, it's always worth keeping an eye on the Southern Hemisphere threads. You'll see some things there you won't find growing in the jolly old UK or Europe. ;D

Thanks for that note Wim. It is now plain to me that what I grew from seed (and later bought) as erubescens, were all wrongly named and were consanguineum. I really like the long threads on the leaflets. They so often carry a swaying diamond of water at their ends.
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: galahad on December 14, 2009, 08:22:25 AM
I just noticed there is another of the previously posted Arisaemas flowering in my A. consanguineum patch.  Yes it does have the tendrils on the ends of the leaflets.  You can see in in the background of this pic
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: Regelian on December 14, 2009, 08:54:53 AM
Dramatic foto!
Title: Re: Arisaema 2009
Post by: galahad on December 14, 2009, 09:06:28 AM
It's the background that makes it ;D
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