Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Flowers and Foliage Now => Topic started by: arisaema on June 13, 2008, 02:10:19 PM
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Aconitum is one of my favourite genera, and one that is much underrated in the garden, so I thought I'd start off a thread for them. First to flower here are our native (and somewhat weedy) A. septentrionale, and the nice and compact A. tauricum:
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Thank you for pics and a good idea to start the thread. Aconitum is also one of my favourites. Buty the first will flower in several weeks in my garden
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I like them too and some are exceedingly tough. I have a plant of A. carmichaelii `Kelmscott' which is totally overgrown by long grass and even blackberry yet it still emerges to flower every year. I really must rescue it some time soon.
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Happy you started this thread....I adore the genus....although nomenclature is very problematic, especially with the rarer species. No member of the genus is blooming here yet....
I should say right up front that I am always interested in seed of interesting, hardy Aconitum species...
And because I have lost it in the garden this year :'( I think I can break the rules of flowering times and post one of my favorites: A. heterophyllum. I had both flower colour forms (blue and purplish-pink).
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Wow Kristl. The veining on that is beautiful!!
Can't say I have much luck here with Aconitum.... have only tried a coupleof times and they rarely last more than a year or perhaps two. ::) A shame as I love the flowers. The only one that persevered for a few years, but I think has finally succumbed, was A. nepallus. Never tried growing them from seed so I have no idea whether that helps. I have a feeling this topic may have me trying them again! ;D
Again, beautiful pics Kristl (you too Arisaema) 8)
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True about the nomenclature, where's the "lumpers" when we need them? The pink A. heterophyllum looks very pretty, I'm sorry you lost it, at least the blue one should be easily replaced ;)
The Indian Aconitum ferox started flowering a good week ago, it's around a meter tall, and thrives just about anywhere.
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The first aconitum this year. I have no idea of its botanical name. Anybody to help?
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The first aconitum this year. I have no idea of its botanical name. Anybody to help?
Oleg, it's possibly Aconitum lycoctonum or a ssp. of this.
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Thank you for open this thread, I am also an Aconitum enthusiast.
Beautiful pictures! A. heterophyllum is is really nice.
I'm agree this is A. lycoctomun and maybe ssp. vulvparia. It is a really difficoult genus to me because I don't find any taxonomic revision of this genus. So it is very important to kaep the names.... if you lost any label (wich is my case in many plants as the sun delete the ink) you are absolutely lost to find the correct name.
This one is Aconitum ajanense
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Both those last two are very nice. I love the elegant flower shape of Olegs one.
Great stuff!! 8)
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Thanks Luit and Rafa for the ID. A. ajanense is really breathtaking. How tall is it?
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Great plants, and very nice pictures!
Rafa; could you please post a picture of the foliage on A. ajanense? I have a species collected near Vladivostok labeled as A. sichotense, but I am not sure if that name is valid.
Oleg; another possibility might be A. barbatum, but I have no idea how to separate them ???
Below;
A. delphinifolium
A. sachalinense x 2
A. columbianum climbing thru an Iris
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Magic plants, with A.delphinifolium the leader. I have A. barbatum but the plant doesn't seem happy this season (no flowers). The two plants look very different, with A.barbatum being much taller, having different sade of yellow in flowers and with soft leaves having narrow segments. Look at it on www.onego.ru/other/aconitum.html
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I call the first, A. lycoctonum neapolitanum ?????
And the second A. anthora (about 30-45cm tall, very ferny foliage) ?????
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I love the foliage on that last one. Interesting flowers on the delphinifolium of Arisaema's too.
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foliage of A. ajanense, coll. Berkutenko
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Oh, big leaves, Rafa! Bigger than I thought.
Rafa, I hope you have seen and enjoyed the triumph of that other famous "Rafa", Rafa Nadal, at the Tennis championships yesterday? With Alejandro Valverde in the maillot jaune of Le Tour, and after the football, it is a good time in Spanish sport, is it not!!
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We are powerfull!! ;D hahaha thank you Maggy!
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Can anybody help identify this Aconitum. I received it as A. 'Gringea'. Is it?
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We are powerfull!! ;D hahaha thank you Maggy!
But so are the Scots. It will be interesting to see who best survives the pollution in Beijing.
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Aconitum anthora is flowering in my garden right now. It's one of my favourites. I am om holiday, staying with my children and their families here in the south west now for 4 weeks. Being away from my home and garden I take the liberty to show a pic from last year:
(http://magnar.aspaker.no/Aconitum%20anthora%2007.jpg)
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We are powerfull!! ;D hahaha thank you Maggy!
But so are the Scots. It will be interesting to see who best survives the pollution in Beijing.
And now we know. The World championships were special, but I think the Olympics have surpassed that occasion. Sir Chris Hoy?
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Magnar.... happy holidays to you and your family! This pic of aconitum is deliciously clear, thank you.
Art: Well the whole GB Team is doing rather well, which is very nice to see.... I have to say ! Assorted Scots are well to the fore, even in the television presenters... what a nation we are for covert world domination ;) :o :o 8)
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And don't forget, your cycling prowess is due to the Aussies that you stole to teach you how to do it properly!! ;) ;D
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And don't forget, your cycling prowess is due to the Aussies that you stole to teach you how to do it properly!! ;) ;D
On your bike!!!! :)
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Art: Well the whole GB Team is doing rather well, which is very nice to see.... I have to say ! Assorted Scots are well to the fore, even in the television presenters... what a nation we are for covert world domination ;) :o :o 8)
Well at least they have the interests of the country at heart - more than can be said for the politicians >:( :( >:(
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And there I was thinking we'd managed to get through most of the Olympics without even mentioning them. No such luck.
Probably there's no appropriate place to mention the appalling plane crash in Spain, but my heart goes out to Rafa and all those Spaniards or others who are affected by this tragedy.
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Lesley, I think we would all echo your good wishes to those affected by this ghastly accident to the aircraft in Spain.
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I call the first, A. lycoctonum neapolitanum ?????
And the second A. anthora (about 30-45cm tall, very ferny foliage) ?????
Kristl,
I like all this different forms of "helmets" in Aconitum ssp.. Wunderful. :)
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Just 2 Acomitums are in blossom now
Aconitum uchyamai
Aconitum albo-violaceum
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Oleg,
This is what I received as Aconitum alboviolaceum (SRGC 06/07 #38) with very narrow hoods and fiddle-head shapes on the unopen buds, as in the Missouri Botanical Garden line drawing: http://www.tropicos.org/Image/19994. It flowered here late July into August and is forming seed now.
The hoods are too narrow for bumblebees to enter; they struggle unsuccessfully to squeeze in before resigning to extending their tongues to the top, which can be watched from very close.
Fine, short hairs cover the flowers and younger stems.
[attachthumb=1]
[attachthumb=2]
Leaves:
[attachthumb=3]
And twining stems:
[attachthumb=4]
John
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Thanks, John. Your wonderful plant seems to be true to the species except the colour. Can it be A.a. var albiflorum? Mine is closer to A. hemsleyanum which is extremely variable to my mind, although I received it as A. alboviolaceum
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Hi,
I just discovered this thread, about one of my favourite genuses :-)
I have an A. albo-violaceum, raised from seed of chilternseeds (but be warned - I bought this seed everytime they had it, with zero germination - only as I once discovered it on their homepage in late autumn, immediately ordered and sowed it I managed to get two plants out of a pack of seed). It is not yet fully grown in its 3rd year but flowered this year - very lovely, I think. Hope it will survive here.
It really looks very similar to the white plant shown before in this thread - does this ever set seed ? Mine has not done me that favour, maybe next year.....
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Aside from the nomenclature issues in this genus---there are also seed viability problems, because the genus is all over the place in terms of it's longevity.
Some species are immediate germinators, and can survive some period of dry storage.
Others are short lived and should be moist packed immediately after collection, etc.
Some require cold, others do not.
I've been involved with the seed of this genus for many years, and it still manages to confound and confuse. Last season I lost all my A. hemslyanum seed sales as it all germinated immediately in moist packing---more recently A. barbatum has done the same thing (although I am now getting smarter and moist packing a bit, and freezing a bit to see what transpires).
I have always moist-packed albo violaceum- as this one appears to be one of the short lived species that requires cold to germinate, so is a perfect candidate for moist-packing.
Post script to above: I received my alboviolaceum seed this year from an outside source---moist packed a bit, froze the remainder. Massive germination has occurred in the moist packed bag--so now I need to ponder whether the species I have previously had as this species was correct (as it did not germinate in moist packing), or whether this one is, or whether some other variable (time or collection, etc) has included the different behaviour.
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I have had a lot of trouble with my computer this year, so it is not before now, that I have been able to return to the forum to find many interesting new threads.
Thank you, , for starting this thread about Aconitum. I am very fond of them and have a little collection of them. Especially I am interested in climbing species. The most common one in Swedish gardens is Aconitum ‘Red Vine’. It is sold as A hemsleyanum, but I am not at all sure, that that is right. The flowers are about 1,5 x the size of other species and have a wonderful colour.
Here some images:
Aconitum ‘Red Vine’
A volubile and
An unidentified species
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Hanelotte, how nice to have you back again, we missed you! Computer problems are most irritating, I know... :'( >:( :'(
I must admit that I know very little about the climbing types of Aconitum, so I am hoping to learn much more ... :)
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Of the other species I would like to show you Aconitum brevicalceratum. I got seed of this species from the Alaska Rock Garden Society’s China collection (ARGS 891) and managed not before this year to identify the species.
Still unidentified is the species I grew from SSSE seed. It is a very distinct plant and shouldn’t be so difficult to identify. Maybe someone can help?
The last species I got as A stoloniferum.
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Thank you, Maggi! I have missed you too! -- Climbing species are as easy to cultivate as other species. If you have a look at the Flora of China, you see that there are many climbers we haven't yet seen in cultivation. But many species, I suppose, are quite similar to each other.
Here is the image of Aconitum brevicaceratum, which I missed to post in my last message. And I add an image of a fabulous pink Aconitum septentrionale I found in the Swedish mountains. Never seen such a good pink in any Aconitum.
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Hi Hannelotte !
The pink Aconitum is fantastic ! In case you have some seed of that you don't need I'd be very happy :-)
The climbing sp. might be A. episcopale, this one is very distinct in its foilage - here
http://forum.garten-pur.de/attachments/A.episcopale.jpg
I posted a picture some time ago, and for comparison this
http://forum.garten-pur.de/attachments/hemsleyanum.jpg
is a leaf of volubile / hemsleyanum. I hope one can guess the differences. Episcopale leaves can be quite large, heer up to more than 15 cm in diameter and very deeply dissected.
Kind regards from Munich !
Michael
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Hi Michael!
Nice of you to help me in my trial to identify the different species! I compared my unidentified, climbing species with A episcopale and don't think that is the right id. The hood is very characteristic in my species. So far I haven't found any climbing pecies with a similar hood.
Maggi,
I found a very informative article about the climbing species at http://www.rhs.org.uk/publications/plantsman/0306/Aconitum.pdf (http://www.rhs.org.uk/publications/plantsman/0306/Aconitum.pdf).
The distinction between A hemsleyanum and A volubile is a little bit confusing. Some years ago the two were said to be synonymous. Now Flora of China treats them as separate genera. Any help?
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Wow, if it is not A. episcopale it is an other species that should definitely be more widely known ! The habit & flower colour are very beautiful! Do you have a photo of the hood and / or the leaves? Maybe that might help with the ID - but I'm not too confident, as so few climbing species are in the trade....unfortunately.
Concerning volubile / hemsleyanum I don't see much difference, the flowers of the plants I got as volubile are lighter coloured (with some parts of white) and hemsleyanum leaves grow a bit larger - but in general it could easily be two forms of a species. However, I may also have received wrongly labelled seeds - but many other people in Germany agree with what I have seen.
For another Forum I have made photos comparing episcopale (left), hemsleyanum (middle) and volubile (right) flowers:
http://forum.garten-pur.de/attachments/Vergleich_1.jpg
http://forum.garten-pur.de/attachments/Vergleich_2.jpg
Maybe this helps a bit, but I think it is also possible, that only one species is around under the names volubile and hemsleyanum, while the true form of one of the species might not at all be around in western countries - but this is just a guess.
Michael
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Hannelotte, that link gives an excellent article for me to study, thank you.
Super photos links, Michael... another assistance!
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Hi Michael,
Thank you for the links. I agree with you that it is difficult to see any differences between the two species. My plants are from Russia, not China and should be the true A volubile. I had also a white form, but lost it and haven't managed yet to get an other plant (I must go back to Moscow!).
You can see the flower of my unidentified species in the middle of the image below. To the ledt A volubile and to the right A 'Red Wine'.
I forgot in earlier message to commend your wish of seed of the pink A septentrionale. The image is from the wild. I tried to dig up a plant, which was really difficult and I didn't get the whole root. Maybe it is alive in my garden - maybe not. If I am lucky, I'll offer seed next year.
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A reply by Michael (mickeymuc) was lost this afternoon in the move of the Forum to a new server.... so I repeat Michael's post here:
Michael wrote....
Hello Hannelotte,
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> Thanks for the pictures - my first thought was: what a splendid flower does "red wine" have ! It was not available in Germany until this year, and I love it very much. Though my plant has flowered very early for an aconitum, I'd say in August and September. "Volubile" started in September while "hemsleyanum" and episcopale are in full flower just now - no chance for seeds, I'd say.
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> I have to say that I have never seen a flower like your sp., it has very unique and beautiful flowers but that's all I can say ;)
> It might well be one of the many species unknown in the western world....
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> I hope your pink A septentrionale will survive ! This would really be a fantastic addition to the pale pink Aconitums that are currently on the market.
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> Best regards,
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> Michael
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One of the last aconitums flowering here is A. carmichaelii 'Arendsii' The picture is taken a fourtnight ago but it is still on although a bit bitten by frost now, Unlike Western Europe we unexpectedly have a warm spell here to enjoy last floweres. + 10 for the beginning of November is a miracle
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Oleg,
Does your Aconitum Arendsii always flower so late or just this year?
I had one more look at this thread and noticed Arisaema's image of Aconitum delphinifolium. I don't think the image gaves the right impression of the plant. It is a low species with good blue flowers. Here two images of Aconitum delphinifolium with A. ajanense side by side at the road between Magadan and Jakutsk.
And since nobody had an image of A barbatum, I add one of it on the western hillsides of lake Baikal.
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Wow, Hannelotte, thank you for the image of A. barbatum ! This one looks great and makes me look forward to what will come out of these tiny seedlings I have of this species (thanks to Kristl Walek, who sells seed of this species :-)
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Hannelotte,
Yes, all aconitums of the carmichaelii complex flower late enough (september - november). I recon it depends on summer. This summer was rather cold and very wet, so they are a bit later then usual. Some of them won't have a chance to flower this season (though in buds) becouse of night frosts. Thank you so much for wonderful pictures of your aconitums some of which I have never heard of or seen. Stunning!
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Kristl wrote: I received my alboviolaceum seed this year from an outside source---moist packed a bit, froze the remainder. Massive germination has occurred in the moist packed bag--so now I need to ponder whether the species I have previously had as this species was correct (as it did not germinate in moist packing), or whether this one is, or whether some other variable (time or collection, etc) has included the different behaviour.
Kristl,
Germination of Aconitum is a mysteri to me. Sometimes the seeds germinate quickly in room temperatures, sometimes after stratification and rather often not at all or after several years. That has - according to my experience - nothing to do with the species. Seed of the same species and even the same plant can behave in different ways. Maybe the differences are due to when the seed was colleted ?
Seed of two different collections of Aconitum alboviolaceum has germinated within two weeks in room temperature.
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Kristl wrote: I received my alboviolaceum seed this year from an outside source---moist packed a bit, froze the remainder. Massive germination has occurred in the moist packed bag--so now I need to ponder whether the species I have previously had as this species was correct (as it did not germinate in moist packing), or whether this one is, or whether some other variable (time or collection, etc) has included the different behaviour.
Germination of Aconitum is a mysteri to me. Sometimes the seeds germinate quickly in room temperatures, sometimes after stratification and rather often not at all or after several years. That has - according to my experience - nothing to do with the species. Seed of the same species and even the same plant can behave in different ways. Maybe the differences are due to when the seed was colleted ?
Seed of two different collections of Aconitum alboviolaceum has germinated within two weeks in room temperature.
Hannelotte:
It's a genus whose germination patterns have intrigued me for many years, because it *is* all over the place.
I am re-testing a number of species from 2008 season right now that have been frozen since harvest, just to see how viability has been affected, because if a high percentage of the genus can be frozen as a solution to the short viability of some members, that is obviously a simple method that can be employed across the board.
It is known that some plant species *are* in fact affected by the time of collection and treatment immediately after collection (most notably, sowing very fresh or sowing *too* fresh)---but that is another long topic for another time.
I have actually not found much variability in the pattern of germination of Aconitum species here year after year---where I have problems is seed received from others supposedly the same species---so of course I always assume that we in fact have different species and that accounts for the difference in germination patterns.
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I had one more look at this thread and noticed Arisaema's image of Aconitum delphinifolium. I don't think the image gaves the right impression of the plant. It is a low species with good blue flowers. Here two images of Aconitum delphinifolium with A. ajanense side by side at the road between Magadan and Jakutsk.
Hannelotte,
Aconitum delphinifolium was a common species in the Yukon when I last did a seed collecting trip there---most plants I encountered were quite tall and *skinny*---I recall thinking that this one would have to be planted en masse to have any effect in the garden. The plants ultimately did not like my hot summers away from the cool north and it was lost in the garden.
There is however a rare dwarf, branching form (usually only about 15cm tall) ---sometimes *unofficially* referred to as var. compactum with beautiful, rich deep blue flowers. I have heard of it being in northern British Columbia, but never saw it in the Yukon. Apparently there is enough difference between this form and the species (including the root system) that it probably should in time be given a different species rank. I wonder if this is the form you have.
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I have a little forest of easy, warm Aconitum species germinated and growing lustily --barbatum, hemslyanum, ferox, albo-violaceum, episcopale to name just a few. The cold germinators are all outside under the snow.
But the one that is totally unique, even as a seedling, is the beautiful and very hardy A. heterophyllum--unmistakable once you have seen the seedlings once. The seed of this species has good long-term viability as well, enduring dry storage for a number of months. It sprouts in 4-5 weeks at warm.
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Is seed of A heterophyllum available in any of the seed exchanges?
Göte
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The snow is barely gone here, but this morning I noticed the emergence of seedlings that I grew as Aconitum glandulosum 2 years ago. These are still in their seedlings pots, and the pots were sitting on the open ground over winter, not plunged, and entirely unprotected. Almost nothing is up in the gardens here, except Galanthus, so the fact that this Aconitum is already showing is quite amazing!!! Nights are still below freezing.
I have no idea where I got the seed---but a search just brought me to a Russian site, indicating that this is a small Siberian alpine species 30-45cm tall. This may explain it's early emergence and exceptional hardiness. I can't find any other reference to it.
Does anyone know anything else about it????