Crocus December 2006

[John Forrest]

Dave
Your C. wattiorum is spectacular. If I could design a Crocus it would be very similar to that.

[tonyg]

Brilliant Dave - for those of us confined to base for our various reasons it is great to be able to see some of our favourite plants in their natural setting. 

Where are you going next? 

[DaveM]

Thanks guys, pleased to see that you enjoyed the images, which I am pleased to share.... a few more to follow in due course, including a bit of a puzzle....... Am still thinking of the next trip......

I agree with you that C wattiorum is fabulous. According to the article by helmut Kerndorff and EWrich Pasche in the AGS Bulletin for Dec 1996, it was found in 1986 by Peter and Penny Watt and named by Brian Mathew as C biflorus ssp wattiorum. I understand that it has since been raised to specific level. I don't know whether it is in cultivation, though I'd be surprised if some of the croconuts don't have it. Anyone have more info? It would be great to obtain some seed - (best way of introducing a plant in my view).

Ibrahim: I greatly enjoyed my trip to Antalya, my first, but hopefully not the last, visit to your country. Yes, these crocus were all in flower during the first week in November this year. I hope you'll forgive me if I don't give the locality details for C wattiorum over the web for all to see. Some of you will recall that when C mathewi was first described, the localities were made available, shortly after which the whole site was decimated by collectors. i would hate this to happen to this beauty! Suffice to say that this is from a previously known locality. Having said this, the population looked to be a viable one with significant numbers in the small area we examined. Much of the area adjacent is very difficult to access, but my guess is that the crocus is all over it.  This is in stark contrast to some of the localities in which we saw C mathewi where we only saw small numbers.

Regards

[tonyg]

Dave - your info on C wattiorum is all correct.  I will try to locate some more details for you.  I am not certain if anyone has it in cultivation at present but I know one or two people who have had it .... but some of the alleged material turned out to be a different taxa.  Your thoughts on seed are spot-on.  Are you going back in the spring?  I also applaud your decision not to share exact location details too widely.

Who did you go with?  Was this an organised tour or a private visit? 

Are you a Crocus Group member?  If so you will have access to the 2006 Bulletin which has an article by Peter & Penny Watt about some of their travels in Anatolia - if not let me know and I will copy it to you.

Looking forward to the next batch of pics

[DaveM]

A few more crocus from Antalya......
One of the sites visited was said to show 'white' Crocus mathewi, as below. The small, scattered population in rough bare limestone and thin rocky turf terrain were very much the same:







None of these appeared to have any of the purple present in the other populations. Is this the white form of Crocus mathewi? or.......
To complicate matters, just a few kms along the road we saw the following with a few good clumps:





This looks likely to be C asumaniae.

Any thoughts appreciated.
Dave

[DaveM]

Hi Tony, any added info most welcome. No immediate plans to go back this next spring. But I guess the same area will be very rich in flowers. The trip was an organised one, with Green Tours. Excellent trip, well organised and to well researched localities - one of the tour leaders was Basak Gunar, botanist daughter of Adil. I heartily recommend their trips. Sad to say that I'm not a member of the Crocus group... perhaps I ought to join. Have now had two great autumn hols to crocus country (last year to Pelops.... absolutely fabulous) and these have fired my enthusiasm for the genus!!

[tonyg]

The asumaniae/mathewii debate can only be resolved by more extensive field studies (and possibly only by genetic analysis) but your pictures do show that there is considerable variation in the wild between the two 'fixed points' that these two taxa represent.  Thanks for sharing them with us. 

[Thomas Huber]

Sorry for the late reply - I took a day of yesterday!
Tony, I found your number on my business-phone, don't you have my private number?

Dave, your photos are absolutely glorious!!!
Many thanks for sharing them with us!
I only know about two people who have C. wattiorum, but unfortunately not me 

[Kees Jan]

I'm attaching some Crocus cancellatus ssp. mazziaricus pics from Greece. This is a very common and quite variable plant in many of the Greek mountains. The Mount Chelmos pictures were made in late September 2006. This seems to be one of the earlier Greek crocuses to flower in autumn. All cancellatus mazziaricus that I found on Chelmos had white flowers. Last year I found some very nice blue forms in the foothills of Mount Pilion, eastern Greece.

Kees Jan van Zwienen
Netherlands

[I.S.]

  Dave: I get your feel very well. I did'nt imagine that It left so little part on the wild. I have seen on the net. Yasemin Konuralp also was making trip to wildflower who lives in Antalya. She has also same wattiorum in her photo album. It might be same area!

best regards.

[DaveM]

Ibrahim - I really do hope you manage to see C wattiorum in due course.

By way of a final offering on crocus from my trip, below are some images from another locality with C mathewi. Again not a large population and this time growing in a deep deposit of red earth (terra rossa). The first is a typical dark throated form. The second has a pale throat, but note the colour of the style. The third image seems to be more like C pallassii.... (this was the only flower of this type seen on that day. There were also some plants of  C cancellatus ssp lycius in the same locality.

[tonyg]

Dave, your 'pallasii' has a very long style.  I'd put it closer to asumaniae although the strong lilac colouring is not typical.  And then we head back into the asumaniae/mathewii problem!

The image below is of a pot of crocus raised from seed received as .... mathewii.

[ian mcenery]

Just caught up with this thread again marvellous piccies everyone and particularly great to see those in the wild.

Also I love  that Wattiorum Dave. Is it in cultivation as I have never heard of it before? Does anyone know its pedigree?

[mark smyth]

damnations. I'm not 'watching' this thread. Only just realised it exists.

Fabulous photos Dave. By coincidence I bought the AGS Bulletin for Dec 1996 yesterday for 50 newps

Maggi just wait until January 30th and I'll change your mind

[mark smyth]

I know someone who goes to Greece every autumn and never mentions Crocus