Polygonatum, but ID please?

[Hoy]

This Polygonatum, probably from Chen Yi, is now 1.5m tall but still growing.
Any suggestions?

[Afloden]

Sorry,

 I've been working away from home and a computer 3 days a week and have not made the time when I am home to get on the computer much.

 I have living plants of this under DJHC600, ex Chen Yi, and another form from the Cangshan. All seem to match the type specimens of Polygonatum trinerve which is currently synonymized with P. zanlanscianense I think. Clearly distinct.... It should have red fruit and a relatively large white rhizome.

 Aaron

[Hoy]

Thank you Aaron! Can't remember the colour of the rhizome but I'll check the berries!

[mickeymuc]

Hoy,

This plant is great, very unlike the zanlanscianense I have. Would you like to swap seeds in autumn? I'd love some seed of yours.

Michael

[dscherberich]

Hello Aaron,

I think you meant Polygonatum cirrhifolium which Polygonatum trinerve was lumped into. Polygonatum zanlanscianense usually has more flower per inflorescence (up to 11 according to the Flora of China). Here some pictures of P. zanlanscianense I did a few years ago in Sichuan.

David

[Afloden]

David,

 Currently I am working towards a revision of Polygonatum..... The FOC treatment of P. cirrhifolium is unsatisfactory as there are many distinct entities synonymized within that concept; cirrhose leaves, flower color variable. I am trying to make sense of the many forms within that species and P. trinerve seems to be a good species that is very distinct from the types of P. cirrhifolium. Polygonatum zanlanscianense is another issue  as it was described from fruiting material. It is supposed to have white flowers according to Jeffrey and variable according to FOC. Polygonatum trinerve comes in near white with purple spots and also in more red forms. What you have pictured is very close to the type of P. fuscum, but that species was described without bracteoles. For the time being I prefer to keep that name until molecular work says otherwise.

 Aaron
 

[dscherberich]

Ah! I was refering to what the Flora of China says. Indeed the treatment of P. cirrhifolium seems unsatisfactory. I have been surprised to see different plants keying to P. cirrhifolium and even some would not really fit anywhere ...

[dscherberich]

http://www.asianflora.com/Convallariaceae/Polygonatum-fuscum.htm

What about this one?

[dscherberich]

Here a Polygonatum I have collected in the Cang Shan mountains above Dali. I have tentatively ideed it as P. cirrhifolium. What do you think? Would it correspond to P. trinerve?

[arisaema]

That looks like a species I found growing alongside P. trinerve in both Lijiang and Zhongdian, although the pedicel/peduncle differs.

[dscherberich]

It looks very similar indeed!
However I have just noticed that on the Dali plant the peduncle seems to be uniflowered while on yours they are 2-flowered. I don't know if this is an important criteria though ...

[arisaema]

How big are the rhizomes on your white-flowered plant? P. trinerve has massive rhizomes with segments 5-7cm in diameter, the white-flowered species had much smaller segments, maybe 2cm in diameter.

[Afloden]

 Some don't currently fit the current treatments! I have talked with Cedric -- that plant would fit near fuscum, but is distinctly different from that broadleaved plant and has narrower tepals. Wang and Tang annotated many specimens identical to that plant as P. atropurpureum, but never described it. Not sure if it fits within the range of variation or not.

 I have a plant like that from the Cangshan. It fits in with cirrhifolium better than anything and is close to the Indian type material. But, that does not mean they are the same plant. I have another form of this from near Beijing! So it is widely distributed whatever it may be.

 Flowers per pedicel varies due to maturity and edaphic conditions. I have some plants that have one flower when young or weak growing that will later produce branched peduncles and multiple flowers per inflorescence.

 P. trinerve does have very large rhizomes.

 If you have not seen the main thread go here; http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2033.0

 It keeps changing and will continue to. I just got some molecular results that supports several new taxa related to P. punctatum and P. tessellatum.

 Aaron

[dscherberich]

Pictures here of a plant collected in the Baoxing area in Western Sichuan. In the Flora of China it keys out to P. omeiense but it is distinct from the P. omeiense I have from the Wolong area ... I will have to take pictures of that one ...

[Afloden]

 Interesting. I have two plants collected near Wolong that seem close to P. omeiense, but are definitely not P. omeiense. Your plant looks similar to what I have. I would love to see them in person! Your plant in the photo may be P. nodosum with the mostly single flowered inflorescences.

 I would need to see the flower, any bracteoles on the pedicel/peduncle, and the inside of the flower to be sure. My thoughts currently are that the plants I have from Wolong are P. yunnanense, the Mt. Omei material is the endemic P. omeiense, and maybe some plants from southern Sichuan (near Leibo) are P. adnatum. All have a peduncle adnate to the stem for 4-10 mm, relatively large flowers, similarly shaped filaments, but with differing vestiture, and a chromosome number of x=11.

 Aaron